760102 - Lecture SB 07.06.01 - Madras

Lectures by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

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760102SB-MADRAS - January 02, 1976 - 56.13 Minutes

Prabhupāda:

śrī-prahrāda uvāca

kaumāra ācaret prājño

dharmān bhāgavatān iha

durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma

tad apy adhruvam arthadam

(SB 7.6.1)

This is Prahlāda Mahārāja. He is one of the authorities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the śāstras:

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

(SB 6.3.20)

This is the statement of Yamarāja about the authorities of dharma. Dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. I think I have explained last night, dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ (SB 6.3.19). Just like our Mr. Chief Justice gives judgment on the law. So the law cannot be manufactured by any common man or any businessman. No. Law can be manufactured only by the state, by the government. Nobody can manufacture. That will not give us . . . if in the high-court, if somebody pleads, "Sir, I have got my own law," Mr. Justice will not accept. (laughs) So similarly, dharma you cannot manufacture. Either you are a very big man . . . even Chief Justice, he cannot make a law. The law is given by state. Similarly, dharma means bhāgavata-dharma, and other so-called dharmas, they are not dharmas. They will not be accepted. Exactly in the same way, law manufactured at your home is not accepted. Therefore, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītaṁ (SB 6.3.19).

And what is bhagavat-praṇītaṁ dharma? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, we know, everyone. He came, Kṛṣṇa came. His mission was dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, for establishing the religious principles, or re-establishing. Dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). So sometimes there is glāni, discrepancies, in the matter of discharging the principles of dharma. At that time, Kṛṣṇa comes. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Yuge yuge sambhavāmi. So this dharma . . . Kṛṣṇa did not come to reorganize the so-called dharmas—Hindu dharma, Muslim dharma, Christian dharma, Buddha's dharma. No. According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). This is . . . the dharma which is a type of cheating process, that kind of dharma is projjhita. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa ujjhita, means it is thrown out or kicked out. The real dharma is bhāgavata-dharma, real dharma. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). Actually dharma means God, and our relationship with God, and acting according to that relationship so that we may attain the ultimate goal of life. That is dharma—sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana, these three things.

The whole Vedas are divided into three states. Sambandha: what is our connection with God? That is called sambandha. And then abhidheya. According to that relationship we have to act. That is called abhidheya. And why do we act? Because we have got the goal of life, to achieve the goal of life. So what is the goal of life? The goal of life is that to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is goal of life. We are part and parcel of God. God is sanātana, and He has His own abode, sanātana. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is a place ever-existing. This material world, it will not exist forever. It is bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It is manifested at a certain date. Just like your body and my body, it is manifested on a certain date; it will stay for some time; it will grow; it will give some by-product; then we become old, dwindling, and then finished. This is called ṣaḍ-vikāra. Of anything which is material. But there is another nature where there is no ṣaḍ-vikāra. That is eternal. So that is called sanātana-dharma. Dhāma. And the jīvas, we living entities, we are also described as eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And the Lord is also addressed as sanātana. So our real situation is that we are sanātana, Kṛṣṇa is sanātana, and Kṛṣṇa has His abode, sanātana. When we go back to that sanātana-dhāma and live with the supreme sanātana, Kṛṣṇa . . . and we are also sanātana. The process by which we can achieve this highest goal of life, that is called sanātana-dharma. We are executing here sanātana-dharma.

So sanātana-dharma and this bhāgavata-dharma, the same thing. Bhāgavata, Bhagavān. From the word Bhagavān, bhāgavata has come. So this bhāgavata-dharma has been described by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). We are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is. But at the present moment, with our material connection, instead of becoming the servant of God, or Kṛṣṇa, we have become servants of so many other things, māyā - and therefore we are suffering. We are not satisfied. That cannot be. It cannot fit. Just like you take one screw from the machine. If the screw somehow or other falls down, it has no value. But the same screw, when you fit to the machine - or the machine is not working for want of one screw, it is in disturbed condition - so you take that same screw and fit it, and the machine working and the screw becomes very valuable. So we are part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), He says, Kṛṣṇa. So we are now separated. We are fallen down. Another example is just like big fire and the small sparks. The small spark is also fire so long it is with the fire. And if somehow or other the sparks fall down out of the fire, it extinguishes; there is no more fire quality. But if you take it again and put it into the fire, again it becomes spark.

So our position is like that. Somehow or other, we have come to this material world. Although we are a small particle, fragmental parts of the Supreme Lord, but because we are in this material world we have forgotten our relationship with God, and our . . . manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. We are struggling against the laws of material world, so many other things. Here also we are serving, because we are eternally servant. But because we have given up the service of the Supreme Lord, we have been engaged as servant of so many things. But nobody is satisfied, as Honorable Justice said, that nobody is satisfied. That's a fact. It cannot be satisfied. It cannot be satisfied because we are constitutionally servant of God, but we have been placed in this material world to serve so many other things which is not fitting. Therefore we are creating plans of service. That is called mental concoction. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). A struggle. It is a struggle.

So we are making different plans, but it will not be successful. That much I explained last night, that we are thinking independent and we are planning so many things independently to become happy. It is not possible. That is not possible. That is māyā's illusory play. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā. You cannot . . . (indistinct) . . . then what is the ultimate solution? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). If we surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then we revive our original position. That is . . . Kṛṣṇa consciousness means instead of keeping so many things in consciousness . . . they are all polluted consciousness. The real con . . . we have got consciousness, that is a fact, but our consciousness is polluted. So we have to purify the consciousness.

To purify consciousness means bhakti. Bhakti, the definition given in Nārada Pañcarātra . . . Rūpa Gosvāmī . . . Rūpa Gosvāmī says,

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11)

This is first-class bhakti, that there is no other motive. Anyābhilā . . . because here in the material world, under the control of the material nature, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartā . . . (BG 3.27). We are under the full control of the prakṛti, material nature. But because we are foolish, we have forgotten our position, so ahaṅkāra, false ahaṅkāra. This is false ahaṅkāra: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya." This is false ahaṅkāra. Therefore Nārada Pañcarātra says sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). So one has to become free, uncontaminated from all these designations, "I am Indian," "I am American," I am this," "I am that," "I am . . ." sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. When he is purified, nirmalam, without any designation, that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahman. He is described in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna . . . paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam (BG 10.12). Arjuna recognized, and he said, "You are recognized by all the authorities." Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the authorities. I have described the authorities. Brahmā is authority, Lord Śiva is authority, and Kapila is authority, Kumāra, four Kumāras, they are authorities, and Manu is authority. Similarly, Prahlāda Mahārāja is authority. Janaka Mahārāja is authorities. The twelve authorities. So Arjuna confirmed that "You are speaking, Yourself, that You are the Supreme Lord," mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "and from discussion of Bhagavad-gītā, I also accept You Para-brahman. And not only that, all the authorities, they also accept You." Recently, in our time, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, all the ācāryas, they also accept Kṛṣṇa. Even Śaṅkarācārya, he accepts Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa is accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by all the ācāryas.

So we have to learn from the ācāryas, not any common man or any self-made ācārya. No. That will not do. Just like we . . . sometimes in the court we give some judgment from the other court, and that is taken very seriously because it is authority. We cannot manufacture judgment. Similarly, ācāryopāsanaṁ, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended. We have to go to the ācāryas. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who has accepted ācārya in the disciplic succession, he knows the things." So all the ācāryas, they accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Nārada, he accepts; Vyāsadeva, he accepts; and Arjuna also accepts, who personally listened to Kṛṣṇa, Bhagavad-gītā. And Lord Brahmā. Yesterday somebody questioned that "Whether there was the name of Kṛṣṇa before Dvāpara-yuga?" No, there was. In the śāstras there are Kṛṣṇa. In the Vedas, in Atharva Veda and others, Kṛṣṇa name is there. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā—Lord Brahmā, he wrote Brahma-saṁhitā—it is clearly explained there, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ anādir ādiḥ. Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (BS 5.1). And Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). Sarvasya means including all the devatās, all the living entities, everything. And the Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Supreme Person, īśvaraḥ paramam, from Lord Brahma. He is the distributor of Vedic knowledge. And Kṛṣṇa says also, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). This is ultimate goal.

So the bhāgavata-dharmam, bhagavān, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. In the list of the incarnation given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is name of Kṛṣṇa also. But at the conclusion, Vyāsadeva says, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). He concludes that "All the incarnation mentioned here, they are aṁśa-kalāḥ, part, partly manifestation or part of partly manifestation." Kalāḥ means part of part. "But the name which is mentioned here, Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān . . . (break) ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is accepted by all the ācāryas. And in the Bhagavad-gītā Arjuna says, asamordhva. Asama: "There is no equal to you, asama; and urdhva, nobody is greater than You." That is God. Supreme means who has no equal, neither anyone is greater than. Everyone is under. That is called asama urdhva. This is there.

So there cannot be any competitor of God. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. But He expands in different way. That is explained in the Varāha Purāṇa, svāṁśa vibhinnāṁśa. He expands as Viṣṇu-tattva. That is svāṁśa. And He expands as jīva-tattva. That is vibhinnāṁśa. So we are also expansions of God, vibhinnāṁśa, a small fragmental portion. The qualities are there, very, very small quantity. But the whole potency is there in Kṛṣṇa. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). So there is one supreme living being, a supreme eternal, and that is Kṛṣṇa. This is . . . and to cultivate this knowledge is called bhāgavata-dharma. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he learned this bhāgavata-dharma when he was a baby within the womb of his mother; he learned this bhāgavata-dharma. So the devotees—śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ—they are engaged with these nine different phases of bhakti.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

sakhyam ātma-nivedanam

(SB 7.5.23)

So they are different devotees who have accepted one of them. Just like śrī-viṣṇu-śravaṇe parīkṣit. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, he simply heard, listened from Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the bhāgavata-dharma. He simply heard. He did not do anything else. Simply by hearing. And abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane. Vaiyāsaki, the son of Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he simply explained bhāgavata. So both of them got the same goal of life, liberation. And liberation means muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa avasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). This is called mukti. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said.

Mukti means . . . just like a person has fallen sick. He cannot walk. He cannot go to his office or . . . so many disadvantages. But when he is cured of the sickness or fever, he again comes to his normal life. Similarly, when we come to our normal life, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean "Now I have got two hands; I'll get four hands or two heads or five heads." Not like that. Simply to come to our normal condition. That is the definition of bhakti also. Real mukti means to be situated in bhakti. That is mukti. Mukti . . . simply to understand that "I am Brahman," that is not mukti. That is mukti . . . that is like convalescent stage. Just like a man has no fever, but he is not cured. There may be relapse again. There is possibility of relapse, typhoid fever. So the brahmānubhūti, Brahman realization, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, it is mukti but it is not very secure position. One may fall down again. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukti-māninaḥ. Vimukti-māninaḥ. They think they are Brahma-līna. They think that they have become mukta. But actually they are not muktas. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. He is thinking like that. Why? Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32). His intelligence is not yet purified. As soon as it is purified, then it is bhakti.

Therefore Bhagavān says that bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). He is a jñānavān that . . . jñānavān means "I am not this body; I am not matter; I am spirit soul." That is jñāna. Jñāna means there must be vairāgya, detestfulness, that "I have nothing to do with this material world." Jñāna-vairāgya. If there is real jñāna, then there will be vairāgya. Because we are suffering on account of an attachment to this material world, so jñāna means that "I have nothing to do with this material world because I am not this material body." Everyone is engaged in this bodily engagement, so-called, so many "isms," all the activities of the world, because on account of this bodily conception of life. So when one becomes freed from the bodily conception of life he comes to the understanding of Brahman identification, and that is the beginning of mukti. That is not mukti.

Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). As soon as one realizes that "I am not this body, so why I should be interested in so-called social life or political life or this life, that life, because they are all due to this bodily conception of life?" So when one understands that "I am not this body, so what business I have got, this bodily conception of activities?" Prasannātmā, "I have no responsibility. I have no more responsibility with this bodily platform," prasannātmā, he gets relieved of so many engagements on account of this body: "I am Indian. I am a Hindu. I am brāhmaṇa. I am chief of this family. I have to take care of the so many persons," and so on, so many responsibilities. And so he feels relieved: "No, I have no responsibility." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). If he does not identify himself with this matter, then if the matter is lost or gained, what he has got to do with it? Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Because you have got material attachment, therefore something material lost we lament, and something material we do not possess, we hanker. The two kinds of diseases. So brahma-bhūtaḥ means these things are the symptom: he is joyful, prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, and samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then he can see, vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇi gavi hastini, śuni caiva śva-pāke . . . paṇḍita . . . (BG 5.18). He has become paṇḍita. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. When these conditions are fulfilled, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54)—then he enters into devotional service.

So devotional service is not a sentiment. It is most scientific, just to become freed from the contamination of this material world. That means one who is devotee, he is already mukta; he is liberated. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that,

māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

So if you want to be brahma-līna, so that is . . . actually brahma-līna means to be engaged twenty-four hours in devotional service. That is brahma-līna. There is not a second vacant without Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me: "I am seeing everything vacant without Govinda (CC Antya 20.39)." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He is thinking simply on Kṛṣṇa. And without Kṛṣṇa, everything is zero. So simply to make the material world zero, śūnyavādi . . . just like the Buddhist philosophers, they think śūnyavādi. And the Māyāvādī, nirviśeṣa. They are practically the same. The Buddhists say, "There is no God." And the Māyāvādīs say, "There is God, but He has no head, tail, nothing." It is in the indirect way to say there is no God. What is difference? If somebody says, "There is no God," and if somebody says, "There is God, but He has no head, He has no tail, He cannot eat, He cannot sleep," negatively—the same definition in a negative way. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that veda na māniyā bauddha haila nāstika. Our standard of philosophy, especially Vaiṣṇava philosophy . . . anyone who does not accept the Vedic principle . . . because vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). If you do not accept the Vedic authority, then how you can understand God, Kṛṣṇa? That is not possible. So anyone who says, "There is no God. I don't care for the Vedas," he is calculated as nāstika. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said . . .

The Buddhists, they decry the authority of Vedas . He had to do that. There was no way. Jayadeva Gosvāmī offered his prayer to Lord Buddha: nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti. In the Vedas there is recommendation of yajña, and in some of the yajñas there is recommendation of killing paśu. So Lord Buddha, he preached ahiṁsā paramo dharma, no killing of animals. So these paṇḍitas, they will give evidence that in the Vedas there is description of killing animals. How you can stop it? So therefore he said, "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Why? Why he did so? Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam. He was so much compassionate to see unnecessary killing of animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya. Therefore ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. That was his . . . although he is the incarnation of God . . . keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. So the Vaiṣṇava can understand what is Lord Buddha and why he decried the authority of . . . because there was no other way. So,

nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ

sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam

keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare

(Daśāvatāra Stotra 7)

So a Vaiṣṇava can understand what kind of part he is playing. So in this way there are different activities going on, and they have been taken as different, I mean to say, types of dharma. But real dharma is bhāgavata-dharma. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is dharma. That is called bhāgavata-dharma, intimate relationship with the Lord, Bhagavān. Brahmeti bhagavān iti . . . brahmeti paramātmā iti bhagavān iti. Tattva-vit. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam (SB 1.2.11). There is no difference between Brahman and Paramātmā and Bhagavān. But still, there is difference. This is called acintya-bhedābheda. There are two kinds of philosophers: bheda and abheda, oneness and different. So these bheda, abheda, combine together. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy, acintya bheda abheda, simultaneously one and different. So other gods, they are also gods. We are also god. You are also god because god means controller. Your Honor, Chief Justice, he is also controlling the whole high-court. I am controlling this institution; you are controlling your family or office or factory. So in that sense everyone is god, controller. But he is not Supreme God. That is not. Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. We may be īśvara, god, but Supreme God is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BS 5.1). That is the verdict of Lord Brahmā.

Even Brahmā, he is also worshiping the Supreme God. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ. Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). So God is svarāṭ. He is not dependent on any other controller. That is God. We are god, that's all right, but we are controlled even by the material nature, what to speak of other things. So we are not independent. Independent God is Kṛṣṇa. Svarāṭ. He is described as svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means independent. He is not controlled by anyone. That is real God. And we are, may be god, but imitation god or small god. But the great . . . "God is great." That "great" God is Kṛṣṇa.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja says that kaumāra. The boys . . . he was taking the opportunity of teaching his class friend. He was five-years-old boy, and his father was a great demon, Hiraṇyakaśipu: "Don't talk of God." So in this way he was in a very precarious condition. Still, because he was a Vaiṣṇava he was taking the opportunity of preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he was asking . . . the boys were very eager to play, and he said, "No, no, no, my dear friends, don't play. Let us discuss something about bhāgavata-dharma." Therefore he says that kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ: "Don't think that in the old age we shall discuss about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Immediately, in this age," kaumāra, "if you are really intelligent." Why? Is there any guarantee that you become old man? You can die at any moment. So take this opportunity. Until the next death comes you take this opportunity in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. "There is no guarantee. Why you are thinking that way, that now you are five years old; you will live for five hundred years? No. There is no guarantee. At any moment you can die."

Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This body, human form of body, is obtained after many, many millions of years through evolutionary process. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa), 8,400,000 species of life we had to come through. Then we have got this body, human form of life, and civilized. Civilized, according to our Vedic conception, a civilized means ārya, ārya. When Arjuna was declining to fight, Kṛṣṇa condemned him, anārya-juṣṭam: "You are just like . . . speaking like an anārya, not an ārya. It is your duty. You must do it." Anārya-juṣṭam akīrtiṁ karam arjuna. "You'll be defied by others. Don't do it." So an ārya . . . aryan means who accepts this varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. Varnāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). The real aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead, Viṣṇu. So this is the process. If we execute this varṇāśrama-dharma rightly, then we gradually make progress towards spiritual realization. It is so arranged in that way, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, not by birth but by qualification. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). If these qualifications are found anywhere else, you should accept that. Even . . .

That is explained by Nārada, that yasya hi yal-lakṣanaṁ proktaṁ varṇabhivyañjakam (SB 7.11.35). Just like in the court, there is no such race or caste as lawyers. Anyone who knows law, he is accepted a lawyer. Similarly, the quality of brāhmaṇa is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: śamo dama titikṣa satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam, jñānaṁ-vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). So you can train anyone. Just like you can train anyone as lawyer, you can train anyone as an engineer or medical practitioner, similarly you can train anyone as brāhmaṇa. That is wanted. That is wanted. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We are trying to train some men as real brāhmaṇa, because brāhmaṇa is the head, is the brain of the society. If the society has no brain, it is in chaotic condition. Brahma-jānāti iti brāhmaṇaḥ. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. So some section of the people must know what is Brahman, what is God, and they should preach all over the world. That is the greatest necessity at the present moment. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to do that, although we are captivating or attracting some younger section, especially in Western countries. But Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān (SB 7.6.1). Training should start immediately from the childhood.

So we are opening one gurukula in Vṛndāvana to train brahmacārī. First of all brahmacārī. The society, the students, should be brahmacārī. Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). Everything is there. Now we have to introduce these things. Otherwise the human society is already fallen, and it will fall down more and more, and it will be hellish condition, and so only hope is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I request you all to take this movement very seriously and try to help us.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (applause) (break) Any question?

Acyutānanda: Kindly remain seated. Kindly remain seated. We will have some moments for questions and answers, which will be followed by our cinema. (break)

Prabhupāda: So far our philosophy is concerned, we want to be freed from sinful activities, because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ

janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām

te dvanda-moha-nirmuktā

bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ

(BG 7.28)

We are trying our best to become a perfect devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So to become a perfect devotee means he must be sinless. If one is sinful he cannot become perfect devotee. So according to śāstra, this animal-killing is sinful. Striya-sūnā-pāna-dyūtā yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā (SB 1.17.38). These four kinds of sinful activities, namely illicit sex, striya . . . that is also . . . in our Vedic culture this is common morality. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita even says that mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Anyone, any other woman, the wife of other gentleman, he should be . . . she should be considered as mother. This is civilization. So what to speak of illicit sex? But people are degrading. That is another thing. But this is our standard of civilization. Even a great politician, he says, "Who is paṇḍita? Who is learned?"

mātṛvat para-dāresu

para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

(Cāṇakya Paṇḍita)

He doesn't say one has to take degrees. By behavior one should be understood. So these four principles, namely illicit sex, animal killing and intoxication . . .

Indian man: Behavior, you said?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these are sinful activities, and our position is how to become sinless. Therefore we do not recommend animal killing. That is not possible.

Acyutānanda: Another question. (break) (repeating question) This is a world of śakti or energy. There is a worldwide rise in prices of energy resources, like oil, coal, gas and electricity. This means that there is a depletion of these energy resources. Naturally, there will be worldwide destruction of mankind and other living beings and materials in the near future. What are your views?

Prabhupāda: So yes, these material things, they are energies. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). The petrol is also another form of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (CC Madhya 13.65, purport). Any energy. There are many millions of energies. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do, because everything is being done by His energy. Although He is the ultimate source of everything, but He is doing everything by His energy. Parasya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (CC Madhya 13.65|CC Madhya 13.65, purport). And it appears that it is being automatically done. No. It is not automatically done. It is done by Kṛṣṇa's energy. So this material energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. It is not a different energy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ. Now, this petrol is liquid thing, so āpa. It is a kind of liquid thing, āpa, so it is Kṛṣṇa's energies. So our Vaiṣṇava philosophy is that Kṛṣṇa's energies should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everything can be utilized for service of Kṛṣṇa. So when you use this petrol for Kṛṣṇa's, spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . if we can use one thousand or one hundred thousand motorcars using petrol for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the proper utilization of petrol. (applause)

Indian lady: . . . (indistinct)

Acyutānanda: (repeating lady's question) Kṛṣṇa says to perform your sva-dharma, so how does one know what is his sva-dharma? (to lady) Am I correct?

Prabhupāda: That is sva-dharma. When Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me," that is your sva-dharma. Because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, your business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so I say, "Finger, please come here," he immediately comes. This is the normal condition of the finger. Similarly, if you are really healthy, in normal condition, then you must be ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your sva-dharma. If the finger cannot come immediately on my order on my head, that means it is not in normal condition; it is in diseased condition. Similarly . . . (applause) Similarly, when you cannot serve Kṛṣṇa, that is your diseased condition. (laughter) (applause)

Indian man: . . . (indistinct) . . . many incarnations, including Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa gave Bhagavad-gītā. That doesn't means that the author has not given all the gods, whether including Kṛṣṇa . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: So that I have already explained, that incarnation—whose incarnation? The question will be: whose incarnation?

Indian man: God. God.

Prabhupāda: God's. So that God is Kṛṣṇa. (applause) You do not know that. Now learn it.

Indian man: Is not Rāma a God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Incarnation means somebody's incarnation. So who is that somebody? That is Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you do not know it, you understand now.

Acyutānanda: One more question, last question. (relating question) Is it necessary that a person should pass through the three āśramas—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—before coming to sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: That is the normal rules and regulation, that especially brāhmaṇa, he must go through the four āśramas—first of all become brahmacārī, then gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, then take sannyāsa. This is for the brāhmaṇas. And for the kṣatriyas—brahmacārī, gṛhastha and vānaprastha. And for the vaiśyas—brahmacārī, gṛhastha. And for the śūdras, only gṛhastha. This is the process. This is normal process. But either one is brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya and śūdra, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes above these rules and regulations. (applause) Yes.

māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇi

bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it is giving immediate lift to everyone to come to the transcendental platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. But general state is varṇāśrama-dharma. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya, He, first of all . . . "What is the aim of life?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu asking. So Rāmaṇanda Raya replied that "First of all to begin this varṇāśrama dharma." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, eho bāhya, āge kaha āra (CC Madhya 8.59): "Yes, this is all right. But this is external. If you know something better, please tell Me." So in this way, step by step, Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . this varṇāśrama dharma, karma-tyāga, karma-sannyāsa and karma-miśra-bhakti, jñāna-miśra-bhakti—everything was described by Rāmānanda Rāya, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . not rejected; He said, "It is all right, but if you know something better . . ." Then at last, when Rāmānanda said . . . (aside) Stop it. When Rāmaṇanda said that, quoting one verse from Śrīmad-Bhagavatam, sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ (SB 10.14.3), that it doesn't matter what you are; you remain in your post. Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatām. Through the oral reception if you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then you become perfect. That is the statement.

So this is required at the present moment, that you remain whatever you are, either brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, Englishman, Indian. It doesn't matter. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa, that's all. If you do that, then everything will be perfect. And that can be very easily done by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this mantra—it is from śāstra—harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva (CC Adi 17.21). In this age, in Kali-yuga, it is very difficult to bring back the fallen population again to the standard of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. It is practically lost now. The best thing is that all of them combine together—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or even less than śūdra, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18). Take to this process of chanting and hearing of the Lord's name. Everything will be all right. (break)

. . . entities, we have no such distinction. It is confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu when He was discussing with Rāmānanda Rāya. He was a governor of this Madras province under the regime of Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa. And he was politician, but he was a very learned scholar in Kṛṣṇa science. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu was talking with him. So because he was a śūdra by birth and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not only very exalted position, brāhmaṇa and sannyāsī . . . so Caitanya Mahāprabhu was questioning, and he was answering, so he felt little hesitation, that "Sir, You are so exalted. I am a gṛhastha and a politician, and how can I . . ." Immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu encouraged him, "No, no, no, don't hesitate."

kibā śūdra kibā vipra nyāsī kene naya

ye kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya

(CC Madhya 8.128)

He said, "Don't hesitate. It doesn't matter whether he is a gṛhastha or sannyāsī or brāhmaṇa or śūdra. If he knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru." He is guru. That is wanted. We are teaching that Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious or knows . . . and Kṛṣṇa also says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti . . . (BG 4.9) (break) "Anyone who knows . . ." (end)