720118 - Conversation Bengali - Jaipur

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



720118R2-JAIPUR - January 18, 1972 - 31:26 Minutes



Translation in progress...

(Translated from Bengali)

Śrīla Prabhupāda in conversation with Rajmata Gayatri Devi.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Please forgive me. I've got delayed.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (laughing) It's all right.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: I've brought him along for your blessings.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Is this your grandson?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

(Sounds of a child crying)

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Don't cry.

(Sounds of inaudible conversation) (Long pause)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: When I was staying in Ascot, at John Lennon's house...

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One day I heard the the sound of fire-crackers. When I asked where they where coming from, I was they were from Jaipur House. That's when I learnt that you have a house there.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That was during Kali-puja... Diwali.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Then I was told that you have seen our party doing kīrtana in London.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, I've only seen them from a distance, but haven't associated with them.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Of course, you've had no association. You've just seen them from your house. This is what I wanted to mention to you that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is being accepted with love. This is such a big cultural movement but I'm struggling alone on the Indian side. The reason for my mentioning this to you is that I've heard, though I'm not sure, that you're interested in such activities.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, I am interested...but the thing is that I get very little time. Also, there's something that's been making my mind restless.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: All day I'm troubled by people.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, that they will.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: So, that's why, I'm unable to give time to what I really want to do.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm. Is there a specific reason? What is that reason?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, there is but I don't want to talk about it in front of everyone. May I talk with you privately?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, sure.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: May we sit somewhere else? (Aside: Please take the bag along.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes sure, let's go.

(Sounds of walking and relocation to another area.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That book you've got.. that's the second part.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, you've gave it.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes... this is the first part. This has the entire Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: The matter is that... since the departure of Maharaja Sahib, all the time, my mind is...

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Your mind is sad.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: I've been unable to understand his death. Why it happened this way. He passed away very suddenly. in front of my eyes. I'm just not able to understand.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Did his death take place in your presence?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: I was there. It was totally unexpected, so naturally my mind is always disturbed.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: How did he pass away? Was he afflicted by any disease?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: He had a slight heart condition that he didn't want to talk about, never mentioned it. He ate well, he seemed all right. When it happened, I thought that this life means nothing.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Life means nothing?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Then why do we have to come here and suffer all this?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We have to come here because we are part and parcel of Bhagavān. Bhagavad-Gita says,

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
(Bhagavad-Gītā 15.7)

We are part and parcel of Bhagavān. However, even though we are part and parcel of Bhagavān, we have independence. Bhagavān is purna-svatantra, and even though the living entities are part and parcel of Bhagavān, our independence is limited. For example, the ocean...

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The ocean and a drop of water from the ocean, has the same chemical composition. Both have the same chemical composition. The difference is that one is large and the other is small. Anu and vibhu. Vibhu means huge. "bṛhatya bṛhanatyād iti brahman". We are small. Just how small we are, is described in the scriptures.

Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca
(Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta Madhya Lila 19.140)

If the tip of a hair is divided into ten thousand parts, that one portion is the living entity.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So, this little portion that is the living entity. These minute living entities have independent desires. Just as, you have many servants and employees, and one of them may have the desire to be king. That is not unnatural.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: To desire the same wealth and opulence. This is not unnatural. Similarly, due to that minute independence when the living entity feels that, "Kṛṣṇa is the enjoying everything. Even I want to enjoy like Kṛṣṇa." That is when maya... this illusion that is not possible for us to enjoy, becomes enchanted by the illusion, and is entrapped by this illusion. The example of this is that the sparks that emanate from fire, have every chance falling down.

(Sounds of a child and others talking in the backgroud.)

Srila Prabhupada: (aside) Stop. Śyamasundara!

Śyamasundara: Yes?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Please talk silently.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: (inaudible)

Śyamasundara: I'm sorry.

Srila Prabhupada: Talk silently.

Śyamasundara: Should we close the door?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So, that falls down... the spark. So, when the spark falls down, there's a possibility that it may fall on water, or on the ground. On the ground there is dry and green grass.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So, there are three places. Similarly, the living entity is also falling away from Bhagavān. If it falls into water then, it extinguishes. of course the living entity does not extinguish but when it becomes totally covered, that is the mode of ignorance.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The material existence is influenced by three modes of goodness, passion and ignorance. The example of falling into water is the mode of ignorance, right to the bottom, completely covered, like animals, plants and similar. They are also living but they are covered. And falling on the ground is compared to being in the mode of passion. When the ember falls on dry grass, ignites and helps others ignite. So, when the living entity, influenced by the three modes of material nature,

kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya

sad-asad-yoni-janmasu

(Bhagavad-Gītā 13.22)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The living entities influenced by these three modes are taking birth in various forms. Someone is taking birth in an aristocratic family, someone in a sweeper's family, someone in a dog's. Taking birth in so may different situations. There are 8,400,0000 species of life. Tri-guṇamayī.

daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī
(Bhagavad-Gītā 7.14)

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is how living entities are transmigrating. However, when this has happened, the exact calculation for that is not available. Hence it is described as anādi. Anādi means before this creation.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Before this creation. This is how it is going on, and the living entities are transmigrating through various bodily forms. 8,400,0000 forms. And through innumerable universes, and countless planets like Yamaloka, Tapoloka etc. So, the living entities are roaming around everywhere through in various ways. However, within that, by good fortune the living entity is able to contact the association of a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, then the knowledge that, "I am part and parcel of Bhagavān," may be acquired. And that, "I am now suffering in this illusory material realm." That enquiry is known as Brahma-sūtra. Perhaps you have read the Brahma-sūtra?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: No. I haven't read anything...

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Brahma-sūtra. The first verse is "athāto brahma jijñāsā." Enquiry regarding about the supreme subject matter. When the human being... the stage you are presently at is known as the 'brahma jijñāsā' stage, when you are questioning, "Why? Why am I unhappy?" You are a Queen and have access to all the material opulence, comforts and happiness. However, you are feeling some anxiety that is troubling your life, and you are not feeling good.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: No.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This condition is present everywhere. When we come to this stage of questioning, "Why?", this is "brahma jijñāsā". "Athāto brahma jijñāsā." This is factually, the first stage of emancipation. By Bhagavān's desire, you are feeling this and this is not bad in anyway. You have got an inquisitiveness and feeling, so you must question regarding the meaning of life. And discuss the situation that is affecting your life.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: How will I get to know the answers?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Everything is mentioned in the scriptures.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: But I won't be able to sit alone and read.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: You don't have to be alone. If you wish, we can help you.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: But you stay somewhere else, and I'm somewhere...

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter where I am, we can communicate by correspondence. We can meet sometime. You too travel a lot.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: For a day or two.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I see, like that. While I'm here for a few days...

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: I'm leaving today.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: You're leaving?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Where are you going?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: I'm going to Delhi for two days.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I see. That is the difficulty. If you're able to stay with us for a few days, I'd be happy to help you.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Kindly explain something to me... regarding Maharaja Sahib... am I never going to able to associate with him again?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Of course, if that's your desire, you can reconnect. Why not? But how is associating again going to benefit you?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: How? Well...

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (laughing) Because the situation of this material realm is not a steady one...

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Yes, I know that

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Therefore, even if you reconnect, you may be separated again. Are you being able to understand?

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: Hmm.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hence, even if you desire, you cannot make that association permanent over here. Here, it is not possible to have a permanent relationship. This is the intelligent way to understand this,

janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam
((Bhagavad-Gītā 13.9)

Here, even the topmost person, Brahma takes birth, and has to die. Like the little insects that are born on Diwali and die the same day. So, here everything is time-bound - past, present, future - it is relative. There is a big difference between an insect and Brahma's past and present. However, with that everyone has a past, present and future. Time is eternal.

Rajmata Gayatri Devi: