750522 - Lecture SB 06.01.01-2 - Melbourne

Lectures by Date, 1975

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

750522SB-MELBOURNE - May 22, 1975 - 63:14 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . mo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees chant responsively).

So,

nivṛtti-mārgaḥ kathita

ādau bhagavatā yathā

krama-yogopalabdhena

brahmaṇā yad asaṁsṛtiḥ

(SB 6.1.1)

pravṛtti-lakṣaṇaś caiva

traiguṇya-viṣayo mune

yo 'sāv alīna-prakṛte

rguṇa-sargaḥ punaḥ punaḥ

(SB 6.1.2)

(1:18)

So we were discussing last night about nivṛtti-mārga, the opposite direction of progressing towards hellish condition of life. By nature's own way the living entity comes to the human form of body by the evolutionary process. That we have already discussed. There are 900,000's forms in the water. Then there are two millions forms of trees, plants. And jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa). Then insects, moths and flies, like that, they are 1,100,000 forms. Then birds, one million forms. Then beast, three million forms. And then human being, civilized or not civilized, there are 400,000. This is the total number of different forms of life. The living entity, spirit soul, is the same, but they are passing through different forms of life. Just like I am the same man. I have passed through my babyhood body, my childhood body, my youthhood body. Now I have come to another body. So it is a fact that I was staying in a baby's body. Now it is another body. A very simple thing, that we are changing body, but I am, the soul, the same. We have to understand this thing. The evolution is going on.

Now, by nature's law the evolution brings you to a nice body, civilized human body, with higher consciousness. But if we utilize this higher consciousness simply for constructing very high skyscraper buildings and do not know what form of body I am going to accept next, that is not very good intelligence. My business is that by nature's evolutionary process I have come to this human form of life. Now I have got good intelligence, better than the animals. If I utilize that intelligence for simply having nice motorcar and skyscraper building, but I do not know what is my future, then it is not very good intelligence. You can construct a very nice skyscraper building, and you can have a nice car, but you will not be allowed to stay here. What you have done for that? You will be kicked out at any moment. Then your all labor is simply . . . you can solace yourself that "My children will enjoy" or "My grandsons will enjoy." But why not enjoy yourself? That is very uncertain. Any moment I shall be kicked out. And then, if it is a fact that I am going to accept another body, there is no guarantee what kind of body I am going to accept. I have constructed a skyscraper building on account of my attachment. I may be allowed by the nature's law to stay in that building, but if by my activities I become a rat or cat in that building, then what is the profit?

(Video start 0:00)

We are under the nature's law. You cannot say that you are independent. Nature's law is very strict. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Nature's law . . . just like fire. If you touch fire, it will burn. And even a child, who is innocent, if the child touches the fire, it will burn. There is no excuse. You cannot say that "The child is innocent. It does not know the effect of touching fire, so he should be excused." No. Ignorance is no excuse. Especially . . . that is the state laws. You cannot say . . . suppose you have committed some criminal act. If you plead, "My lord, I did not know that the . . . after doing this act, I had to suffer imprisonment. So you excuse me," no, that will be no excuse. You know or not know the law, if you have acted like that you must suffer. This is going on.

So we don't believe in the next life just to avoid this consequence. But that will not excuse us. We have to accept a type of body. Otherwise how there are so many different types of bodies? What is the explanation? Why different forms of body, different stages of body, different standard of body? That is nature's law. Therefore this human form of life should be properly utilized, not simply engaged in sense gratification like cats and dogs. That is not very responsible life. Responsible life is that "I have got this improved form of life than the cats and dogs, and I have got more intelligence than the cats and dogs. If I simply utilize it for four bodily necessities of life . . ." Four bodily necessities of life means we require some eating. The cats, dogs, human being or high-court judge or anyone, they require some eating. They require sleeping, apartment. So that is . . . the cats and dogs can sleep without apartment, but the sleeping required. That is fact. Eating required, that is fact. And sex life, that is also fact. And defense, that is also fact. But these things are common to the cats and dogs and man, human being.

So what is the special feature of the human being? The special feature of the human being is that a human being can consider that "I have got this nice American or Australian or Indian body. Then what I am going to get next? What kind of body?" That is utilized for human intelligence. A cat and dog cannot think like that. Therefore our business should be, "Now, by the nature's way, I have come to this form of life by evolutionary process. Now I have got good intelligence. How I shall utilize it?"

That proper utilization is indicated in the Vedānta philosophy. Vedānta philosophy, perhaps you have heard the name. Veda means knowledge, and anta means last stage, or end. Everything has got some end. So you are being educated. You are taking education. Where it shall end? That is called Vedānta. Where the ultimate point.

So Vedānta philosophy says . . . that is Vedānta philosophy, ultimate knowledge. The ultimate knowledge, that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is that ultimate knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15).

You are cultivating knowledge. "The ultimate goal of knowledge," Kṛṣṇa says, "is to know Me." Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam. The whole knowledge is meant for understanding God. That is the end of knowledge. By progressive knowledge you can make progress, but unless you do not come to the point to understand what is God, then your knowledge is imperfect. That is called Vedānta. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human form of life, nice facility, intelligence . . . just like Australia was undeveloped. Since the Europeans came here, it is now very developed, resourceful, because the intelligence has been utilized.

Similarly, America, many other places. So this intelligence should be utilized. But if we simply utilize this intelligence for the same purpose as the cats and dogs are engaged, then it is not proper utilization. The proper utilization is Vedānta. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now you should inquire about Brahman, the Absolute." That is intelligence.

(Video break 07:09)

So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, as I have repeatedly said, it is that culture. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "What is the ultimate aim of life, ultimate goal of life?" Because I am eternal. I am simply changing body. Na jāyate na mriyate va kadācit (BG 2.20). Kadācit means at any time the ātmā, the soul, is never born, na jāyate, the living soul. Na jāyate. Na jāyate means never born. "But I see, my child is born." No, that you see, the body of the child, not the child as soul. That is knowledge. That is called brahma-jñāna, that "This body . . . I am not this body; I am spirit soul." Then the inquiry will be, "Then wherefrom the spirit soul has come?" That should be the inquiry. "And why, if I am eternal, then why I am put to this condition of repetition of birth and death?" These are inquiries. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means inquiry about the spirit soul. That is brahma-jijñāsā.

So in this way we should utilize our intelligence, life, not simply for these bodily comforts of life. No. That bodily comforts of life, even the dogs and hogs they are also seeking. They are also seeking. Then what is the difference between dogs, hogs and myself? Therefore śāstra says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This is the warning given by Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. "My dear sons, don't spoil your life working very hard like the dogs and hogs just to satisfy your senses." This is the instruction. We are being taught at the modern age that "Work very hard and enjoy your senses." This is the modern civilization. "Get money some way or other, and spend it for sense gratification." That is the goal. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They are not taught, they are not educated, that what is the end of life, goal of life. That is God realization. They do not know it. Na te viduḥ. "They do not know it."

Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone is self-interested. Everyone is looking after his self-interest. That's good, very good. But do you know what is your self-interest? That they do not know. Somebody is thinking, "My self-interest is this"; somebody is thinking, "My self-interest is this," and therefore there is collision, strife, fight. But actually, the self-interest is one, for the, at least for the human being. What is that? Realization of God. It is equally important for the Americans; it is equally important for the Indians; equally important for every living being, especially for the civilized man. This is self-interest. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is that Absolute Truth? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā (SB 1.2.10). That should be our first business. Of course, we require a living place and eating materials and sex arrangement or defense arrangement. That is required. You do that. But don't forget your main business. Then you are cats and dogs. Your main business is God realization.

Therefore śāstra says that ayaṁ dehaḥ. Dehaḥ means this body; ayam means "this." What is this body? Now, nāyaṁ dehaḥ deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha-bhājām, deha-bhājām means one who has got this material body. Everyone, all living entities, either a cat, dog or human being, everyone has got this material body. If you analyze the body of a dog and your body, you will find the same ingredients—the same blood, the same skin, the same mucus, the same bone, the same urine, same stool. That is bodily construction. So bodily construction is the same. There is no difference. From chemical point of view, from physical point of view, the same thing. Just like the biologist, they study the human body by dissecting the frog's body. They say, the biologists say, that there is similarity of anatomical construction of the frogs and the human body. Anyway, we also accept that because, after all, it is this material body. So the arrangement in the frog's body and in the dog's body or in the human body, it must be the same material. So then what is the advantage of this human body? That is instructed, ayaṁ deha: "This body, this particular type of body, human body, is not meant for the purpose serving the cats and dogs." Nāyaṁ dehaḥ deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Nṛloke means in the human society. Nṛ means human being. So human society, when you have got this nice body, you should not utilize this body for the same business as the cats and dogs and hogs are utilizing.

How the hogs are . . .? Especially this animal has been . . . nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). Kaṣṭān kāmān means with hard labor to satisfy the four necessities of life. The four necessities of life I have already mentioned: eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is bodily necessity. So the hog or the pig is trying to maintain his body. You have no experience. In India we have got experience. In the villages there are hogs. Day and night, they are loitering in the street, and when they find out some stool, they are very happy. Therefore this animal has been especially mentioned, that "Do you spoil your life like the hog, working day and night, night duty, work day duty and this duty, that duty, and what is the gain? You get some food, which may not be very nice, and eat it. And then you satisfy your sex." Is that life very perfect life? That is being done by the hogs. They are working day and night to find out where is stool. Stool is not very good food, but it is for them very good food. If you give, offer the hog halavā, they will not accept it. They will accept stool.

Just like . . . don't mind. We are offering such nice food, but people do not like. They will go to the restaurant and eat some rotten, one week passed, some meat preparation. They will like. I do not know, but I have heard it from my disciples. (laughter) When it is decomposed and rotten, it is tasteful. It is very tasteful, they say. I do not know. I have never taken meat in my life, so I do not know. So anyway, according to different position, the taste is also different. The hog taste is eat like stool. That means it can accept any damn foodstuff, even up to stool. That is hog's life. And human life? No, no, no. Why should you accept? You just have nice fruits, flowers, grains and vegetables, and prepared from milk product, and eat it. God has given you this. Why should you eat stool? This is human consciousness. So when better food is available, I must take the best food, full of vitamins, full of taste, full of energy. Why should I take something else? No. That is human intelligence.

Therefore our program is that we offer Kṛṣṇa the best foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me this foodstuff." What is that? Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati, tad aham aṣnāmi (BG 9.26). If you call a guest, you should ask him, "My dear friend, what can I offer you, you'll like to eat?" So if he says, "Give me this thing, I shall be very much pleased," that is your duty to give him. Similarly, people may ask that "Why I cannot offer meat to Kṛṣṇa?" No, Kṛṣṇa does not say. Kṛṣṇa does not want it. Kṛṣṇa is mentioning in the Bhagavad-gītā that "You give Me . . ." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26): "You give Me vegetables, give Me fruits, give Me grain, give Me milk, nice water, nice flower, nice tulasī." Tad aham aṣnāmi: "I eat that." Kṛṣṇa, or God, He can eat anything because He is God. He is all-powerful. But He is asking to the devotees, "Give Me these things." So we shall, we offer Kṛṣṇa these things and prepare varieties. That is our intelligence. You can make varieties. Just like one milk. You can prepare fifty different kinds of preparation from milk—at least. So many varieties.

In New Vrindaban we are keeping cows. That is an example. And the cows are giving milk, delivering milk, double than other farmers. Why? Because the cows know that "These people will not kill me." They are not in anxiety. Suppose you are engaged in some work, and if you know that "After seven days, I will be killed," can you do the work very nicely? No. Similarly, the cows know in the Western countries that "These people giving me very nice grains and grass, but after all, they will kill me." So they are not happy. But if they are assured that "You'll not be killed," then they will give double milk, double milk. That is stated in the śāstra. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's time, the cows' milk bag was so filled up that in the pasturing ground they were dropping, and the whole pasturing ground became moist, muddy with milk. The land used to be muddy with milk, not with water. That was the position. Therefore cow is so important that we can get nice food, the milk. Milk is required every morning. But what is this justice, that after taking milk from the animal and kill it? Is that very good justice? So it is very, very sinful, and we have to suffer for that. And they are stated in the śāstras that "If you do this sinful act, you will go to this kind of hell." There are description in the Fifth Canto.

So pravṛtti-mārga means . . . if I do things according to my whims, that is called pravṛtti-mārga. Then the next life is waiting for my suffering. That is fact. Just like if you irresponsibly live and there is epidemic, and you contact some disease, infection, then you must suffer from it. There is no excuse. So we are acting in this life, in this material world, as it is stated here, traiguṇya-viṣayo mune . . . pravṛtti-lakṣaṇaś caiva traiguṇya-viṣayo mune. Our desires, according to the modes of material nature we are associating. Just like in the temple, in this temple. Here everything is on the modes of goodness. So if you associate with this temple atmosphere, your behavior, your mode of life, will be different. And if you associate with the atmosphere of a brothel, a slaughterhouse, then your atmosphere will be different. That means infection. Association means infection. If we infect tamo-guṇa, then your life is different. And if you infect the rajo-guṇa, then your life is different. Therefore there are varieties of life. Why there are varieties of life? Because we have infected different varieties of infection. There are three kinds of infection originally: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, just like originally there are three colors: red, yellow and blue. Now, you mix up these three colors. Three into three, it becomes nine, and nine into nine, it becomes eighty-one. So those who are expert color mixer, they make varieties of color originally from these three color. Similarly, originally there are three kinds of material modes of nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. Now mix it, it become nine, and again nine into nine, eighty-one. Therefore there are 8,400,000 forms of life on account of this mixture.

(Video continues 07:09)

So people do not care to understand how nature's law is going on. Nature's law means God's law. Nature is not independent. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Nature is a machine. Do you think a machine works without an operator? Do you think? Is there any evidence? Now, this is a machine, photography, a wonderful machine. It is taking the picture, and it will move. But there is an operator. Where is the machine which is working without operator? Can you give any example, "Here is a machine which is working without operator"? So how do you think that the nature machine is working without the supreme operator, God's instruction? How do you think it? This is not very reasonable. We have to judge. There are different evidences. One of the evidence is hypothesis. That hypothesis is that "Because we see that no machine works without operator, therefore we should conclude it, even though we do not know what is God, what is the nature, we must conclude it that this nature is working under some supreme operator. That is God." It is not necessary to see the operator, but we can guess that there must be operator.

So human life is meant for finding out who is there to operate. That is human life. Otherwise it's cats' and dogs' life. They are eating, sleeping, mating and dancing. That's all. That is not human life. You must find out who is the operator. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is called, in Sanskrit word, "Now this human form of life is meant for inquiring about the supreme operator." Now that supreme operator, Kṛṣṇa, is so kind. He is giving evidence in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10): "Now here I am. Under My direction the prakṛti, the nature, material nature, is working." So you accept. Then your business is done. And Kṛṣṇa gave evidences how He is controlling the nature. When Kṛṣṇa was seven years old, He lifted one big mountain on His finger. That means the . . . we . . . our understanding is that there is law of gravitation. By law of gravitation, such a big mountain, it cannot stay in one man's finger. That is our calculation. But He did it. That means He counteracted the law of gravitation. That is God. So if you believe this, then you know God immediately. There is no difficulty. Just like if the child is warned, "My dear child, do not touch fire. It will burn you." So if the child accepts, then he gets the perfect knowledge immediately. If the child does not accept—he wants to make experiment—then he will burn his finger.

So our process of knowledge—you should take from the supreme authority. Then we save time for research work. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We take perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. I may be imperfect. Just like child is imperfect, so I may be imperfect, you may be imperfect. But if you take the perfect knowledge from the supreme perfect, then your knowledge is perfect. That is the process. This is called avaroha-panthā, knowledge coming, deductive knowledge.

So everything is there, and if you like to take advantage of this movement and make your life perfect, go back to home, back to Godhead, then fully utilize this center, our Melbourne center. Come here, read our books, and argue. Try to understand with your full knowledge, no blindly acceptance. There is reason. There is argument. There is philosophy. There is science. Everything is there. And if you accept that "Simply by chanting, I shall realize," that is also allowed. Both ways: if you accept this simple process, that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God," that is also fact. And if you think, "What is this nonsense, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa?" then you read books. Both ways we are prepared. Come and take advantage of this movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya, jaya! (break)

(Video break 13:16)

Madhudvīṣa: His Divine Grace will be flying out of Australia tomorrow at 1:45 p.m., flying back to Hawaii by way of Fiji, where he will be stopping off for a couple of days. But our spiritual master will be coming tomorrow morning to greet the Deities, and everybody can have their last opportunity to have his darśana at that time. And it is good news that he has promised to return again in January . . .

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol! Haribol!

Madhudvīṣa: . . . for a more extended stay.

Devotees: Jaya!

Madhudvīṣa: So at this time, if there is any questions, you can take the last opportunity to present questions to His Divine Grace for some time. Yes?

Devotee (1): Being . . . everybody being influenced by different desires, different intentions and desires, would each individual's sādhana be slightly different?

Madhudvīṣa: "Being influenced by different degrees of desires, would that influence each person's faith?"

Prabhupāda: No. It may be faith. Just like different kinds of disease. You infect one kind of, I mean to say, infection. You suffer in that disease. So it is due to . . . different desire means different types of association. We are therefore recommending that you associate with us. Then there will be one desire: how to understand God, that's all. That is wanted. The bhakti means sarvopādhi . . . anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Anyābhilāṣa, other desires, other material desires, when we give up and only desire to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is our perfection. This has to be learned. We have got certainly many desires according to infection and association. But when we agree to give up all these desire . . . desire must be there. If there is no desire, then you are a dead stone. Desire must be there. Any living being, he must have desires. Otherwise how he is living? He is dead stone. So desire must be there, but it should be proper desire. The proper desire is . . . because we are part and parcel of God, so our desire should be how to meet Him again and work with Him conjointly. That should be the only desire. Therefore when Kṛṣṇa comes, He orders, or He commands, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You give up all other desires. Simply desire how to surrender unto Me." This is required. And that can be understood by the human being. And because we have got different desires . . . I have already explained. Different qualities of the material nature, that mixed up, it comes to eighty-one. So therefore we have got . . . according to desires, we have got so many varieties of bodies.

So we have to learn how to stop all these material desires and simply concentrate our desires how to serve Kṛṣṇa, or God. That is required. That is the training. Just like these boys, these girls who are in the Kṛṣṇa conscious - they have no other desire. Their only desire is how to push on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That's all. It is possible. They had many desires. They are also coming from your country. They had many desires. But they have no other desire now. Their simply desire is how to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is perfection. When you stick to this one desire, that "I shall serve Kṛṣṇa," then you are free from all desires; otherwise not. Otherwise it is impossible. Then desires will drag you to different types of body. Then your suffering will increase. Then we have to come to the body of a pig. Because nature's law is very strict. According to your desire, He will give you body. So you desire to serve Kṛṣṇa, you will get a body like Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

(Video continues 13:16)

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when it is cited in the scriptures that Lord Brahmā rides on a swan, a haṁsa, is this . . .? Are we to take this to mean it is a real swan, or is it something symbolic?

Prabhupāda: Not symbolic, it is fact. Why do you say symbolic?

Devotee (2): It's rather unusual.

Prabhupāda: Unusual . . . what experience you have got? You have no experience. Have you got any experience of other planetary system, what is there? Then? Your experience is very teeny. So you should not calculate Brahmā's life and other things by your teeny experience. Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the duration of life of Brahmā, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ . . . (BG 8.17). Now, Brahmā's life, it is stated in the śāstras. We have already explained that we accept the authoritative statement of śāstra. Now, Brahmā's life is stated there. Arhat means his one day is equal to our four yugas. Four yugas means 4,300,000 years, and multiply it by one thousand, sahasra-yuga-paryantam. Sahasra means one thousand. And yuga, yuga means the 4,300,000 years makes a yuga. And multiply it by one thousand: that period is Brahmā's one day. Similarly, he has got one night. Similarly, he has got one month. Similarly, he has got one year. And such hundred years he will live. So how you can calculate? How it is within your experience? You will think something mysterious. No. Your experience is nothing. Therefore you have to take experience from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. Then your knowledge is perfect. That I have already said. Don't try to understand with your teeny experience everything. Then you will be failure.

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, are all one's efforts to serve Kṛṣṇa virtually . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that you are coming here; even though you are not initiated, that is also service. So if you deposit one cent daily, one day it may become a hundred dollars. So when you get the hundred dollars, you can get the business. (laughter) So you come here daily, one cent, one cent . . . when it will be hundred dollars, you will become a devotee.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: So this is not wasted. It is . . . that is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). Kṛta-puṇya. Kṛta means done. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing when Kṛṣṇa was playing with His cowherd boys friends, so he was describing that "These cowherd boys who are playing with Kṛṣṇa, they have not come to this position in one day." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After life after life, having performed pious activities, now they have come to this position that they are allowed to play with the Supreme."

So kṛta-puṇyaḥ-puñjāḥ. Any pious activities done for the sake of Kṛṣṇa, that is your permanent asset. It will never be lost. So go on increasing the asset. One day it will so help you that you will be able to play with Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Devotee (4): How can you convince somebody who . . .

Prabhupāda: First of all . . . you are devotee; he is not.

Guest (1): There are different or many spiritual movements in the world. How can I know which one is right for me?

Prabhupāda: It is very easy. Spiritual movement means to understand God. Any spiritual movement you adopt, if you understand God, then it is all right. Otherwise it is a bogus. If you understand God . . . you take any movement. If you think everyone is spiritual movement, all right, you take it. Then, if you come to understand, "Now I have understood God," then that is all right. Otherwise bogus.

Guest (1): I have no experience, so . . .

Prabhupāda: That is the experience. Just like if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. And without eating, how you will feel satisfaction? So if you follow spiritual movement, then you will understand God. That is the result. And if you think that you are following some spiritual movement but you do not know what is God, that means you are following some bogus thing. That is the test. It hasn't got to be certified. You can know. Just like if you eat, you will feel satisfaction. You haven't got to take certificate from others. Do you think I am eating? You can say. If you understand fully God, then that is spiritual movement. If you do not understand, then you must know that you are following some bogus movement. This is the test.

Guest (1): There are different cults . . .

Prabhupāda: I say different, may be hundreds, but it is up to you to test whether you have understood God. That is the test, real test. Yes?

Guest (2): How do you convince a person who says . . . they're suffering when they're actually, when they say they're happy and they're not afraid to die?

Madhudvīṣa: Someone who is not afraid to die and says that he's not suffering, how do . . .

Prabhupāda: He is a madman. (laughter) That's all. Who is caring for madman's birth?

Devotee (5): It's very easy to convince some people that they're not their bodies, but it's not very easy to convince them that they're not their minds. Is there some way we can . . .

Prabhupāda: That will take time. How can you expect that in one minute everyone will understand everything? It requires education, time. If he is prepared to give the time, then he will understand, not that within five minutes, ten minutes, he'll understand the whole thing. That is not possible. He's a diseased man. He requires treatment, medicine and diet. In this way he will understand. A diseased man, if he doesn't care for medicine, diet, then he'll suffer. That's all. Yes? Anyone? No?

Devotee (6): If we've been here lifetime after lifetime performing impious activities, does it mean that we have to be here lifetime after lifetime performing pious activities to balance out our sinful reactions?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Madhudvīṣa: "We have been here for many lifetimes performing sinful activities. So is it possible to counteract all those sinful activities in one lifetime, or does it require many . . .?"

Prabhupāda: One minute. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. One minute. You are not reading Bhagavad-gītā? What Kṛṣṇa says? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66): "You surrender unto Me. Give up your all business. I will give you relief from all sinful reaction immediately." So it requires one minute. "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I was forgotten. Now I understand. I fully surrender unto You." Then you become immediately free from all sinful reactions. Without any reservation, without any politics, if you fully surrender, Kṛṣṇa is assuring, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ. He reassures, "Don't worry whether I will be able to give you relief from all reaction." Mā śucaḥ. "Finished, guaranteed. You do this." So how much time it requires to surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Immediately you can do that. Surrender means you surrender and work as Kṛṣṇa says. That is surrender. What Kṛṣṇa says to do? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things: "You always think of Me, and you become My devotee, you worship Me, and offer your respect, full obeisances, unto Me." You do these four things. That is full surrender. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśaya: "Then you come to Me without any doubt." Everything is there. Kṛṣṇa has given everything fully. If you accept it, then life is very simple. There is no difficulty. Yes?

Devotee (7): How long do you say it is before Kṛṣṇa comes to this planet again in His physical . . . in human form?

Prabhupāda: Now calculate. I have already given the duration of one day, twelve hours, of Brahmā means 4,300,000 years multiplied by one thousand. What it comes? 4,300,000 years multiplied by one thousand.

Devotees: Four thousand, three hundred million.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Paramahaṁsa: Four billion, three hundred million.

Prabhupāda: Oh, difference of opinion. (laughter)

Madhudviṣa: In Australia they calculate different. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Anyway, what is your Australian calculation? Let me know.

Madhudvīṣa: It's true. Their billion is something else.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Anyway, I give you the right figure, four million, according to American or English calculation, (laughter) 4,300,000 years and multiply it by one thousand. Then what it comes according to English calculation? (laughter)

Paramahaṁsa: 4,300,000,000.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Paramahaṁsa: 4,300,000,000.

Prabhupāda: That is twelve hours. And add again twelve hours, night. Then eight billion . . .?

Paramahaṁsa: 600,000,000.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa comes after this period. (laughter) In one day, after one day of Brahmā, He appears.

Devotee (8): Śrīla Prabhupāda, does Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu also appear every day of Brahmā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, following Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (8): Always following Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa comes in the Dvāpara yuga. There are four periods of each yuga: Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara, Kali. So Kṛṣṇa comes at the end of Dvāpara-yuga, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu comes in the Kali-yuga. So almost about the same year, same circulation. Just like the sun appears after so many hours. It is like that. And the sun does not disappear. Sun is already there in the sky. It may not be in Australia's vision, but it may be in other country's vision. The sun is not dead. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa appears by rotation in this universe after so many years, eight billion and nine billion years. So next He goes to another universe. Just like the sun, after disappearance from Australia, it goes to another country.

Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, after finishing His business in this universe, He goes to another universe. In this way the rotation takes eight million . . . nine billion years. Just imagine how many universes are there. He stays in one universe for 125 years. Everything is there, calculation, in the śāstra. Now we can imagine how many universes are there. That is, altogether, material world. That is stated in the . . .

athavā bahunaitena

kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna

viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam

ekāṁśena sthito jagat

(BG 10.42)

This material creation is one-fourth creation of the whole God's property. And the three-fourth part is in the spiritual world. That is God. Not that cheap God, "I am God," in this God. We don't accept such cheap God.

Devotee (9): Because you're . . . (indistinct) . . . and all the devotees here are your disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda, eternal disciples, eternal servitors. But what if we have to take birth in the material world in the next life? How will we be able to render direct service unto you?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even if you remain in the material . . . if you are not completed your spiritual life, still, you will get good birth. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭoḥ sanjāyate (BG 6.41): "One who is failure in completing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he is given next chance in a very aristocratic family or very nice, pure brāhmaṇa's family, so that he can again cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness next chance."

Devotee (9): Will that mean taking initiation from another guru, or will he remain your eternal servant?

Madhudvīṣa: His question was when we take initiation from you, we understand that we become your eternal servitors.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Madhudvīṣa: But if we have to come again to another birth . . .

Prabhupāda: But if you remain eternally in the instruction . . . and if you fall from the instruction, how you can remain eternal? You have to stay on the platform. Then eternally you are safe. If you fall down from the platform, then it is your fault. Just like we are all in the Vaikuṇṭha planet. Now, we wanted to enjoy this material world. We have fallen down, just like Jaya-Vijaya. Now we are trying to go back again. Therefore we say, "Go back to home, back to Godhead."

So everything is . . . there is process. If you follow the process, then you go back. If you fall down, that is our fault. Therefore the life is meant for tapasya, that Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction, that our life should not be wasted like dogs and hogs and pigs. It should be utilized for tapasya, for understanding our position. Tapo putrakā yena śuddhyed sattva (SB 5.5.1). This is the aim of life. We have to purify our existence. At the present moment our existence is impurified. Therefore we are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. And as soon as we purify ourself, then we are not subjected to these four material laws.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya!

(Video end 32:50)