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731214 - Lecture SB 01.15.36 - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731214SB-LOS ANGELES - December 14, 1973 - 39:34 Minutes

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

yadā mukundo bhagavān imāṁ mahīṁ
jahau sva-tanvā śravaṇīya-sat-kathaḥ
tadāhar evāpratibuddha-cetasām
abhadra-hetuḥ kalir anvavartata
(SB 1.15.36)


yadā—when; mukundaḥ—Lord Kṛṣṇa; bhagavān—the Personality of Godhead; imām—this; mahīm—earth; jahau—left; sva-tanvā—with His selfsame body; śravaṇīya-sat-kathaḥ—hearing about Him is worthwhile; tadā—at that time; ahaḥ eva—from the very day; aprati-buddha-cetasām—of those whose minds are not sufficiently developed; abhadra-hetuḥ—cause of all ill fortune; kaliḥ anvavartata—Kali fully manifested.

Translation: "When the Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa, left this earthly planet in His selfsame form, from that very day Kali, who had appeared partially before, become fully manifest to create inauspicious conditions for those who are endowed with a poor fund of knowledge."

Prabhupāda: Here is one word, jahau. Jahau sva-tanvā śravaṇīya-sat-kathaḥ. So when Kṛṣṇa left, He left with His . . . the self-same body. In the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). In another place Kṛṣṇa says, ātma-māyayā. Ātma-māyayā. Māyā means potency, energy. So there are three potencies . . . there are many potencies. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, CC Madhya 13.65, purport). God has unlimited potencies, but learned scholars, saintly persons, they have not rejected potencies, because that cannot be.

There are certain philosopher, they are of opinion that God has no potency. But that is not fact. From Vedic information we see potency. What is that? How to understand the potency? The potency, you can understand. Just like from the fire you have got two potencies: heat and light. Nobody can deny it. Similarly, as fire is placed in one place but it expands its potencies heat and light . . . that is within our experience. It is not very difficult. Similarly, the sun also. Everyone can see that the sun planet is a big planet, the biggest planet, or star, as somebody says. Whatever it may be, it is lying in one corner of the sky. But it expands its potencies throughout the universe. The sunshine is distributed all over the sky, all over the planet system . . . planetary system. And similarly, heat also. We are feeling 99,000,000 miles away . . . is that ninety-nine miles? What is that? Scientists say?

Devotees: Ninety-three.

Prabhupāda: Ninety-three millions of miles away from us; still, we are feeling scorching heat, 120 degree, 135 degree. In Middle East the temperature is 135 degree. It is impossible to stay on the surface of the globe. One goes down to the earth. So potency is there. If in material thing like the sun—sun is a material thing; it has got so much potencies—so how much potencies the Supreme Personality of Godhead has got, that is called inconceivable potency. Acintya: beyond your perception. He has got that potency.

So that is the statement of Vedas.

na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate
na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate
parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate
svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca
(Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, CC Madhya 13.65, purport)

The is description of the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Person. Because it is said, tasya. Tasya means He's a person. So what kind of person? Like me? Whole day working, for money? No. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidya . . . He has nothing to do. See here. Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do. Simply He is enjoying, playing on flute and enjoying with Rādhārāṇī. That's all. He hasn't got to go to the office, to the factory. (laughter) (laughs) He hasn't got. He is simply to enjoy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). And we also take, imitate that enjoyment. We also want to mix, young boys and girls, dance together, because we imitate Kṛṣṇa. The same thing is there. With gopīs Kṛṣṇa is dancing; here also we are dancing, in nightclub, and this club, that club. But that will not give you satisfaction, because it is imitation. If you want real dancing, come to Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.

That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, that we are trying to take the misled people from illusion to the reality. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they see that there is no more any pleasure in this dancing: "Make it zero. Forget it." No. We don't say that. We say that this dancing is there in the original conception in the Absolute Truth. That is . . . the Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Whatever you are experiencing, wherefrom it has come? It has come from the Absolute. That is the Absolute idea. But here, in the relative world, it is pervertedly reflected, and because it is not reality, therefore you are confused, baffled. So our proposition is, "Come to the reality." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The same dancing . . .

Just like here is a picture, Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. We also like, anybody of us here. Even in old age they are dancing with young girls. In Paris there is club. All going to die, such old men, they are coming in the club, paying fifty dollars as entrance fee; then they have to pay for young girls and wine. But still, they come. They cannot actually enjoy. Vaya gate kim yuvati nārī: "When one is old man, what is the use of mixing with young girls?" Yes. But they like it. They like it. They pay for it. But they do not enjoy. Because if they have enjoyed, they would have been satisfied, but they are not satisfied. Frustrated.

So this is the position. This is the position. Just like the heat and light. If . . . you are feeling the heat in the sunshine, but that does not mean the sun is there. You cannot say that. Sun is there and not there. This is called simultaneously inconceivable presence of God everywhere. He is present everywhere. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
(BG 9.4)

Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Kṛṣṇa says, "By My impersonal feature, I am spread everywhere. Everywhere." Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni: "Everything is resting on Me." This is the fact. Just like in this material world, everything resting on the sunshine. That is scientific. Is is not, scientist, the sunshine? The planets, they are rotating on account of this heat and sunshine? It is not a theory?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They agree with . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So now what do we mean by "everything"? Just like this planet. Everything with this planet—the trees, the rivers, the mountains, the cities, the cars—everything within this planet, that is a unit. So this is one planet. And there are millions and mill . . . trillions of planets. But how they are existing? Existing on the sunshine. So wherefrom the sunshine comes? The sunshine comes from God, or the sun comes from God. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is born, everything is emanating from the Absolute. Therefore, indirectly, everything is depending on Kṛṣṇa's potency. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4): "Everything is resting on My potency." Na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ: "But I am not there." This is the acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. This is our philosophy.

So our point is that Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there, and He is working through His potencies. Just like a big man, he is sitting in his parlor. He hasn't got to go. Just like we have seen Mr. Birla in . . . those who are with me, they have seen. He is sitting in his home, but he has got many potencies. He has got secretaries, clerks, and this and that, so many things. So they are doing all work. He hasn't got to work. A big man means he hasn't got to work personally. He has got so many assistants. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, He is the Supreme. He hasn't got to work Himself. He hasn't got to work. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ gacchati. He is always engaged in His playing flute and dancing with the gopīs. That's all. Pleasure. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). That is pleasure. So His potencies are working. What kind of potency? That is described. I have given the example: Just like the sun is there and the sunshine is there, and the sunshine is working everything. By the sunshine, the trees are coming out, the leaves are coming out. They are dropping when there is no sunshine. So everything is depending on sunshine. That is explained in the Vedic literature:

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā
parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis
sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.22.52)

Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Whatever you are seeing in this cosmic manifestation, they are simply manifest . . . demonstration of the potency of the Lord. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ.

So we are . . . we take our birth and we accept our death not independently. We are under the another potency. We are also one potency. The potency . . . there are . . . parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Those potencies have been divided into three. Multi, but roughly they have been divided into three. One is called internal potency, one is called the external potency, and one is called the marginal potency. So the external potency means this material world. The whole material universe—so many universes, so many planets, stars, skies and everything—these are the demonstration of the external potency. And similarly, there is the spiritual world. Spiritual world. That we cannot see.

That is not within our experience. But we get it from the śāstra. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ (BG 8.20). Kṛṣṇa says: "There is another nature." Paras tasmāt. "This material nature, beyond that there is another nature." Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ. That is eternal. This material nature is not eternal. Just like your body, my body, it is not eternal; similarly, this gigantic body of universe, that is also not eternal. It has a date of creation, and it has a date for dissolution. That is the nature. Therefore it is said that, "That material nature is sanātana. That is never created; neither it is annihilated."

So we, marginal . . . marginal means actually we belong to the spiritual nature, because we are spirit soul. But we have come in contact with this material nature, some way or other, so therefore we are seeing our position incompatible. We cannot adjust here. Therefore we are getting one type of body and enjoying or suffering another type of body, another type of body, another type of body. This is going on. Therefore we are called marginal. If we like, we can transfer ourself to the spiritual world and remain eternally, because we are of the spiritual nature. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the description of the soul. The soul is never born, na jāyate. Na mriyate, neither he dies. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. Kadācit, at any time. Not that sometime we wish to live or sometime we wish to die. No. Everlastingly, eternally, we never take our birth, never we die. Then what is this death? This death is of the material body, not of the soul. Therefore it is said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), more distinctly, that "Don't think that the soul is dead after the annihilation of this body."

So now the conclusion is that because we are marginal, in between the spiritual nature and the material nature, although we are spiritual, although we are . . . our real nature is na jāyate na mriyate, we never take birth, never die, but on account of our contact with this material nature, we are getting this material body and the body is changing. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Body is changing. And that we have taken as our nature, birth and death. That is not our nature. We are spirit soul. We are put into marginal because . . . just like the margin is explained: taṭasthā. That is . . . we have translated into "marginal." Just like we go on the Pacific beach. Some day we find the water is covering the beach, and some day we see it is open; there is no water. So that is called marginal. Marginal. Sometimes it is covered by water; sometimes there is no water.

Similarly, we, being marginal potency, we are sometimes influenced by this material nature. Not always. Because at the present moment for sometimes we are under the material nature, now, if we try, then we can get out of this covering of material nature and come to the spiritual nature. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means don't remain in the marginal position. Come in the land, so there will be no disturbance by the water. This is the position. If you remain on the marginal position, then sometimes you will be covered by the water and sometimes it will be dry. But if you little come forward this side, land side, the ocean has no power to touch you.

But Kṛṣṇa is not like that, and that is described here. Although Kṛṣṇa left this world, that does not mean that He left this world as we leave. Our leaving this world means we are leaving this material body and accepting another body. Therefore, at the present moment we are not in our own body. Our body is changing. Now this American body, and next birth may be Russian body. This is going on. You are fighting against the Russian, Americans, but he may get the Russian body next life. Therefore as American, he fought the whole life with the Russian, and he is going to become a Russian. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. This is the law of nature. Then again fights with an American as soon as he gets the Russian body, then he becomes again American. This is going on, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Sometime Russian, sometime American, go on fighting. That's all. So this is called māyā. (laughter) This is māyā. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is doing that.

Therefore Lord Caitanya says, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). The living entities are loitering like this—sometimes this body, sometimes that body, sometimes this way, sometimes that way. He is simply loitering. He is not getting where to take shelter. Where permanent life, permanent peace, permanent happiness he does not know. He does not know. Simply changing. In the material world also, they are simply changing some form of government, electing one rascal, again rejecting; another rascal, another rascal. Because they are all rascals, they have no other alternative than to elect one rascal. But they are thinking, "By rejecting this rascal, we shall be happy." He does not know how to elect. He does not know how to elect. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). He . . . they are themselves blind, and they are accepting a leader who is also blind. So what will be the profit? If you are led by . . . you are blind, and if you are led by another blind, then what will be the profit? Both of you will fall down in the ditch. That is going on.

Therefore, if you want real happiness, you must take the leadership of a man who has got eyes to see. Then it will be all right. So whose eyes are open. And that is in the Vedic literature said:

cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ

It is the business of the guru . . . because everyone is blind, or in darkness, cannot see, so it is the guru's business to open his eyes, or to help him to see things as they are. That is guru's business. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Everyone is covered by the darkness of ignorance. So how darkness can be moved? If there is light. Immediately, if you make the switch off of electricity, this room will be dark. And again you make the switch on, there will be light. Just like at night, we cannot see. Everything is dark because the light, sun, is not there. In the morning, as soon as the sun is there, again everything you can see. So things are there. Because we are in the darkness of ignorance, we cannot see them properly. I am there, you are there, God is there—everything is there. Simply we have to get the light or the proper situation to see things as they are. That is wanted.

So Vedic literature therefore advises that if you want . . . first of all Vedas advises, "Don't keep yourself in the darkness." Tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't keep yourself in the darkness." This is human life. In the human life . . . in the animal life you kept yourself in darkness because there was no possibility of come to the light. If I invite all the dogs and animals of Los Angeles city to come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā, it is not possible, because they are animals. But if I appeal to the human being, because he is human being, he may be interested. He should be interested, but the time is so bad that nobody is interested, but still, he may be interested. But that is not possible for the animals, cats and dogs. So in the human form of life, there is necessity of coming to the light and make a solution of the problems of life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes. That is the statement of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā: yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham, ātma-māyayā (BG 4.7).

So Kṛṣṇa comes . . . He does not come like us. We are under the control of the material nature, but Kṛṣṇa is not under the control of material nature. That is to be understood. Therefore here it is said that jahau sva-tanvā. Sva means "own," and tanvā, tanu, tanu means "this body." We have got distinction, "I am the soul, but my this body is material." This distinction we have got because we are conditioned soul. Actually, I am not this body; I am soul. But I have become conditioned by this material body. And in case of Kṛṣṇa, He is not conditioned by this material body. Therefore it is said, sva-tanvā: "by His own original, spiritual body." This is the distinction you must understand. One scholar has described . . . because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, and still writing comments on Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65): "Just think of Myself, think of . . . just become my devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me, worship Me," this rascal says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa the person, but to the soul." Now he says . . . just see how much ignorant he is. He does not know that Kṛṣṇa has no such division as His self or soul and the body, and he is writing comment. And this is very scholarly, it is said. He is a rascal number one, and he is accepted as scholar. This is going on. This is going on, all over the world.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11): "Mūḍhas, the rascals, they think, because I appear as a human being, they think as ordinary human being." Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ: "They do not know the great potentiality of Myself." Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Still, they will go on explaining Bhagavad-gītā, writing Bhāgavata, comments on. These rascals, mūḍhas, one who does not know that Kṛṣṇa has no such distinction, as we have got distinction body and soul, Kṛṣṇa has no such distinction . . . Kṛṣṇa has no distinction between this Kṛṣṇa's form of stone and Kṛṣṇa Himself, because the stone is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). The earth, water, air, fire, everything is Kṛṣṇa energy. That we have already explained. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. Everything Kṛṣṇa's energy. So He can appear in any form, from anywhere, from anything. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa.

So we have to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, in truth, if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you become liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). So we have to understand Kṛṣṇa like that. Sva-tanvā: He left this body not as we leave our body. No. We are leaving and accepting our body by the force of nature, material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Our business is going on being forced, enforced by the laws of nature. Kṛṣṇa is not under the laws of nature; neither He has got distinction between His self and body. This is to be understood. Sva-tanvā. If somebody thinks that, "Kṛṣṇa left His body and died like us . . ." There are a party, they think like that, "Kṛṣṇa also died like us." But that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa left His so-called body just to befool the rascals. Because the rascals are thinking, "Kṛṣṇa is like us," therefore to bewilder them, Kṛṣṇa leaves a māyā body so that they may think that "Kṛṣṇa is like us." But actually here is the secret, that jahau sva-tanvā. He left this world in His original body. He has no such distinction. Śravaṇīya-sat-kathaḥ. If His body is like our body, material body, then what is the use of hearing about His activities? We are interested in the words of Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is like us, He has got the same material body, then why you should be interested to read Bhagavad-gītā, He is also a man like us?

Therefore here it is said, śravaṇīya-sat-kathaḥ. By hearing about Kṛṣṇa, you become liberated. So if He is equally as good as you are, then what is the use of reading His book, reading His instruction? But here it is said, śravaṇīya-sat-kathaḥ. Tadāhar apratibuddha-cetasām. These things are spoken by less intelligent class of men, apratibuddha-cetasām. They say, cetasām abhadra-hetuḥ kalir anvavartata, "Because Kṛṣṇa passed away, therefore Kali got the opportunity to enter." That is . . . to some extent it is fact. But Kṛṣṇa, although left this planet, and if He is everything, how Kṛṣṇa can go away? Kṛṣṇa can remain with you eternally. And even if you say that, "Because Kṛṣṇa went away, therefore Kali got the chance of entering," but if you keep yourself with Kṛṣṇa, where is the chance of Kali to enter? Where is the chance? So you keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kali will not be able to touch you.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya . . . all glories to Śrīla . . . (cut) (end)