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730627 - Conversation - Navadvipa

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



730627R1-NAVADVIPA - June 27, 1973 - 94:02 Minutes



(includes Bengali exchanges)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . German cent, One in the United States.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Three in America.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Three in America.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Another three, Another . . .?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Another three in Europe.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Three in Europe. Six.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One in India.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: India, one.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

(aside) (Bengali: It will fall down.) Why you are keeping there?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: India, one. Seven.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Seven. And Africa, one.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: One.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eight.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: Eight.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And one, Australia.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Australia.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: New Zealand.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: Nine. One in New Zealand.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And one . . .

Bhavānanda: Canada.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Canada.

Devotee: Africa and South America.

Bhavānanda: Ah, yes, South America.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: South America.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: Another one? South America. Where in South America?)

Bhavānanda: Australia and Southeast Asia also.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Argentina.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Argentina.

Devotee: And Japan. Japan.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Japan includes now . . .

Devotee: Western United States.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Western.

Bhavānanda: Western United States?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Including Hawaii and Japan. (Bengali: Japanese people are very favourable.)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) . . . (Bengali: What about Russia?) . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Russiate (at Russia), there is big lokat. I have got a student there. They are very much strict about religious things. When I went to Moscow . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Well, reaction will come.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Reaction already come. They do not . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sure to come . . . reaction, reaction.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So they found one of my Bhagavad-gītā . . . in immigration. So immediately he called police. (laughs) Then he, he examined. He allowed, "All right, it is all right. It is such a rubbish." But they are not very happy country, as they advertise.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What is happiness? God is happiness. "Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi . . ."

Prabhupāda: Now, apart from materially, they're poor.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja:

janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-
duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam
(BG 13.9)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . anudarśanam. So they are poor in intelligence. This is sattvic intelligence. "Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Anudarśanam.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Devoid of higher kind of intelligence.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The Russian professor . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And the scientific fineness, that is also in the jurisdiction of matter. But a more subtle and subtler knowledge is possible.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now we are presenting through two of my scientific students, Doctor of Chemistry, that matter is . . . the source of matter is spirit. This is our theory. Generally they believe that life, life comes from matter.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Life comes from matter.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Matter. But we are presenting, "No, matter comes from life."

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Apparently. This is not appropriate. This is Vedānta. Vedānta . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I say, just as there is excema in the healthy body, this material world is an excema . . . expect in the healthy body.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Material, material atmosphere means diseased condition.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Diseased condition, very negligent or diseased condition, very negligent part, forming very negligent part of the whole, this material world, where creation and dissolution is compulsory.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Creation and the dissolution is compulsory. That is a negligent portion of the real universe.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ekāṁśena . . . (BG 10.42)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Otherwise, if a major portion of a body is bad, then that cannot stand. So the major portion of the universe must be healthy, wholesome. And the negligent part is the diseased portion. That is the world, where the majority lives.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One-fourth part.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The possession of Satan. It is under possession of Satan. Satan means having (Bengali: Perverted knowledge.) That is misunderstanding.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Perverted.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Misunderstanding is perverted. Misunderstanding is set out. Understanding is there, but it is perverted.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Dehātma-buddhiḥ . . . (SB 10.84.13)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Dehātma . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Dehātma-buddhiḥ.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Dehātma-buddhiḥ. Rather, rather the enjoying principles, offensive.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Sense gratification.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Enjoying mood. That is the basis of this. And mood of renunciation, that is a vapour state. That is nothing only. And the real life is the life of self-dedication and service. And the service not of any part. Or service not for any part which is like me, but for the whole, for the Divinity. As Kṛṣṇa says in Gītā:

athavā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat
(BG 10.42)

Who lies . . . whose bed is infinite. Śeṣāśrita, ananta. Infinite gathered together. And though He seems to, to have a figure, but figure that, that sort of figure which can contain many, many number of infinite of our conception. Kṛṣṇa is a figure talking with Arjuna, a limited figure, but Viśvarūpa emerged from Him. How? A big Viśvarūpa emerged from a limited figure? So such limited figure, that is God. Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana has been described as only sixty . . . say . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eighty-four miles.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Thirty-two miles. Thirty-two miles.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Somebody says eighty-four.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Āṭhār-krośa Vṛndāvana,

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ah, Saloka.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . thirty-two miles. But Paravyoma, which is to be understood as Vaikuṇṭha, means infinite, many of the paravyomas is accommodated there within that thirty-two miles area. Square miles area, or something like that. That, we must be conversant with that sort of understanding. Any number of length of rope coming, but only two fingers less. Only two fingers less. Another big rope added, again that two fingers less. This is all categorical principle. We have to be acquainted with. Then we shall go to read Bhāgavatam . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (aside) fan?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . or to . . . (Bengali: . . .(indistinct) . . . give one table fan please . . . (indistinct) . . . by fan.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (aside) Drive these flies.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: How it is possible? Eka-i vigrahe tāṅra ananta svarūpa (CC Madhya 20.164)

In one figure, He accommodates numberless of figures. "Eka vigraha tāṅra ananta svarūpa". But all these appear to be real, and it will be shown to them who has got real śraddhā. Śraddhāmayo 'yaṁ lokaḥ, the world of faith. And that is substantial, not imaginary. What we say to be concrete, that will be reduced to ashes and imaginary. It will evaporate, both the scientist, material scientist, as well as the sages. But this will ready evaporate one day, with sun, moon, everything.

This will evaporate, but that subtle thing stands forever. Śraddhāmayo. The experience of the region of faith stands forever, undisturbed. The world of experience is evaporating every second. And for the being who is dying every moment, every second dying. The what is to be told to us to be reality, that is, means dying every second. That sort of reality is given to us by these great persons of the present universe, big scientists and big leaders of the knowledge world. In India there is a saying that once a big mountain, he or she expressed that she will produce a child. "Parvate mūṣika bhave". She has got fame just before producing child. Then the people thought, "Oh, what a big child must come when the big mountain, she feels pain to produce a . . ." Eh?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Labour pain.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Labor . . . "Then a big child must come." At last it was seen that a mice, a mouse, was produced. So the big giants of the present world, so-called leaders of the scholars . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Scientists.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . scholars, with world, they are producing like a mouse. That is a dying substance, in this form or that form.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ah, this is sheer deception, a deception to be a challenge to the real thinkers. We should abhorrently throw it out at once. It is within the boundary of . . . janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

Throw it off.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So I, I try to impress upon them this fact, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a challenge for this deception. They're simply deceiving.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All sorts of deception. Even Vaikuṇṭha. Paravyome . . . (indistinct) . . . and the calculation, even they, the self is, a sort of calculation comes between the, the servitor and the object of service, then also it throws us down. In Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that sort of calculation is also absurd. Where there is love, there cannot be any calculation. It is autonomous. Autonomous anurāga. Cultivate, do. No sort of calculation of any benefit. The calculation disturbs autonomy.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: We . . . the temple, as suggested by you . . .)

goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu
(Bs 5.43)

(Bengali: I was explaining to them.) About our temple contemplation, it will be almost a skyscraper building.

Bhavānanda: Will be.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Eh?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Skyscraper building in temple shape, with four divisions. "Goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya devī-maheśa" (Bs 5.3). So Maheśa-dhāma, how it will be depicted? Pārvatī-wise.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It has been already described by Sanātana Gosvāmī in Bṛhad-Bhāgavatāmṛtam. After crossing Brahmaloka . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There is Maheśa-dhāma, in between.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Maheśa-dhāma. And the devotee . . . Śiva as devotee.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone is . . . Śiva's devotional prayer is there in Fourth Canto, about the four sons. What are those?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Devī-dhāma. Virajā up to virajā, nirviśeṣa. The last conception, or the highest conception, of Devī-dhāma is what are the conception of virajā; prakṛti ends there. Then begins . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kāraṇa, kāraṇārṇava.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Kāraṇa, kāraṇārṇava. Then it begins Brahmaloka, the halo of the spiritual world.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Effulgence. Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Spiritual world. And that is also some, some, somewhat (Bengali: Without any varieties.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm. (Bengali: Without any varieties.)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And then, after crossing that, the Śiva is on the other, higher side or whether he is in lower side. That is . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Śiva is . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Differentiation . . . differentiation on two sides is Śiva. This side also, master of Devī, and this side also. He is searching after something, and when the differentiated world ends in Brahmaloka, there also Śiva is devotee. This side, Śiva is a yogī. He's searching after. And then, there, he's going to meet Nārāyaṇa, to face . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Both sides, he's a devotee.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This side, he's not such a devotee. But that is pure devotee on the other side, Vaikuṇṭha.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ah. Sadāśiva.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sadāśiva, Mahā-Viṣṇu. On the other side, he's a devotee. Vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ (SB 12.13.16).

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Mahā-Viṣṇu and Sadāśiva, the same.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Same.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Advaitācārya.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Advaitācārya. On the other side. And this side, sometimes revolving. The other day, I told a gentlemen that Śiva is rather the leader of the opposition party.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, in Dakṣa-yajña, that is the curse.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In Dakṣa-yajña and in many a place, many demons is encouraged by him, we find.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But when Pracetās, Pracetās also, they met Śiva . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That, that is that Śiva, devotee Śiva.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, they . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mārkaṇḍeya also in Bhāgavatam. Mārkaṇḍeya worshiped Śiva. But that is the devotee Śiva. It is clearly mentioned in Bhāgavatam. Mārkaṇḍeya's worshiping Śiva. But that Śiva is the pure devotee of Nārāyaṇa.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Pracetās, Śiva, the Pracetās met in this material world or in the spiritual world? They met in the material world.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I can't remember that particular . . . but Śiva, this side also Śiva, in the nirviśeṣa, on the lower side of the nirviśeṣa is also Śiva, and the higher side of the nirviśeṣa is also Śiva. Then Nārāyaṇa.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Here, he's Bhūtanātha, leaders of the atheistic class of men.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Atheistic class. And his paraphernalia is Nandibhṛṅgi, bhūta, and his, and his eldest son is Vināyaka, and he misguided . . . the leader of the misguided, Vināyaka, Gaṇeśa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Vināyaka. Vi-gata . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vināyaka. Not proper nāyaka. Vikṛta-nāyakaḥ.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Vikṛta-nāyakaḥ.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vināyanikapamode-śuddha-prabhu, that are protected by Kṛṣṇa, and they . . . throw . . . throwing their . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But in Brahma-saṁhitā Gaṇeśa is described vighna-nāśa.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vighna-nāśa, but with the help of Nṛsiṁha-deva on his kumbha.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. Yat-pāda-pallava-yugaṁ vinidhāya (Bs 5.50)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: With the help of His lotus feet, he's able to . . . otherwise, he's vināyaka.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (laughs) Vināyaka. Gaṇeśa.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (sanskrit verse)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Misleader.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Misleader, misguider, Gaṇeśa, his eldest son. And he give support, Śiva. Just as C. R. Das, he encouraged the Subhas Bose and the other members of the Anuśhilan Party, but he himself was a little common person.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, how do you like this place?

Satsvarūpa: Very transcendental.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Indistinct Bengali) Śrutakīrti. Where is Śrutakīrti?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Here is Śrutakīrti.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: His health, you have to arrange what will be . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Śrutakīrti wants to serve you, provided you go with us, USA (laughter). He says, "If Mahārāja goes with us, then I shall take care of him."

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In another life. Some other life. (laughter)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ne. (Bengali: It is not as difficult as you are thinking.)

Devotee: (Bengali: Mahārāja does not even want to go out of this place, then . . .)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: Did not you remember that Prabhupāda had wanted me to go overseas, and I was like the dog and frog . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: At that time . . . during your youth . . . Now you're old. (laughter)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes in my youth then professor told me that. I said I'm not conversant and I'm not able to understand their language, so what will I do going there?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: When he came from Bombay, he tells me that . . . (indistinct) . . . They need to be pulled out of here." (laughter)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then the Professors told me, "Do you know that Prabhupāda is planning to send you overseas?" I did not know. They said, "Whoever is going overseas, is becoming Westernised. You please don't become."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Alright. Though, I don't think anyone would have been able to do that to me. That I could guarantee.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Once, we were eating at Bon Mahārajā's place, and he gave fork and spoon to us to eat with. So, I didn't know how to hold a spoon and fork. So, Bon Mahārajā criticised me saying: "You're going to a foreign country but you don't know how to hold a spoon and fork!" So I replied: "I'm not going there to learn how to hold a fork and spoon but teach how to give up such eating habits.")

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: So you are saying . . . (indistinct) . . . defeated by Asia . . . do you remember? round table when you came with . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: They have brought some vegetables from the garden Mahārāja.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I see.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The egg-plant and ridge-gourd will make very good bati-caccarī (traditional Bengali preparation).

Jayapatāka: Egg-plant, ridge-gourd, potol . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, pointed-gourd is there?

Jayapatāka: . . . Lady's fingers . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh . . . at our place, we are growing our own crops.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: They are hardworking.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, they are very hardworking. They are buying more land to grow rice and crops.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Oh.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: They are intelligent. Now, they have to utilise it here.

Devotee: Mahārāja, what would you like to eat?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: On Ekādaśī, can fried pointed-gourd be eaten, Mahārāja?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, it can be . . . (indistinct) . . . at Mayapur during Prabhupada's time. Cultivated in dham so it can be eaten

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So, give fried pointed-gourd.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: During Ekadasi multi-seeded fruits are not to be eaten. However, papaya is multi-seeded. Also, raw jack-fruit is a multi-seeded vegetable. There are many multi-seeded ones.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Cucumber . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That's also multi-seeded . . . like pumpkin. Otherwise Pointed-gourd is not be eaten during cāturmāsya. Still as it is cultivated in dhama, we don't need to be so strict and judgemental. . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The pointed-gourd from here is famous . . . it is famous.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mahāprabhu . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Outside the gate of your place here they are selling pointed-gourd in heaps.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Selling . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: They are selling.

(aside) What's the price of pointed-gourd over here?

Devotee: Must be fifty paisa per kilogram.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It used to cost one or two paisa for a little less than a kilogram, when you were there with Keśava Mahārāja. I've seen this myself. It was selling in the wholesale market for 2 paisa or 1 paisa.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, even I remember that this pointed-gourd was in such excess that when it would not sell here, it would be taken to the ghats and put on boats. Then it used to be sold for very cheap. I remember once when I was ill, I took a big cloth and put as many as possible, and bring about twenty kilograms of the cheap pointed gourd back on my back.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Pointed-gourd is a useful thing.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (chanting) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Our . . . do you recognise this boy? He was my disciple.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: My vision is not good.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, you can't see . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That's why I'm unable to recognise them . . . but I know Ṛṣikesa (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, all of them have come . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Because of Bon Mahārāja . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He has a lot of that kind of intelligence . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . because of Bon Mahārāja's behaviour, you sent the remaining ones to me.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, you are aware of what happened.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I know what happened. And his ways are such that when he thinks that his establishment is reducing, immediately, he starts a school or college, and he piggy-backs on that and wants to remain at the center as the big Mahārāja.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Lake Town . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: At Santana Gosvami's pure place of pilgrimage, he's gone and opened a mundane college that's become a place for rogues to congregate.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I have made an opposition, and questioned the activities going on there.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What is going on there?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: They get help from the government.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) . . . Nothing but a slaughterhouse. Government help means . . . they will not say anything because he is Swami Bon.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All this is Swami Bon's projects. Other than this he's unable to do anything. Exhibitive Mahārāja. Demonstrative. He needs to be demonstrative because all he wants is to create an empire to rule. He follows Kesava Das Babaji. Once someone came and told me that, "Bon Mahārāja is the fifth saint in the world."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Really?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What objection would anyone have to that? So I said that the first saint is the Christian priest . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The first saint is the Christian priest, second is the Buddhist monk, third a Muslim cleric, fourth a Jewish one, and the fifth one is Bon Mahārāja! I said: "It is all right I have no objection."

(laughter)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Then . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Then, the person was taken aback.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The fifth saint . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He has become the fifth saint and these are his ways. He can be the fifth . . . I have no objection.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. And is Tīrtha Mahārāja the sixth?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That I don't know. This incident was from long ago. Bolo Hari!)

(interruption)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja:

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
ūrdhva-mūlam adhaḥ-śākham
aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam
chandāṁsi yasya parṇāni
yas taṁ veda sa veda-vit
(BG 15.1)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: fifteenth chapter. " Sa veda-vit "

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The cause of this world is connected with the upper world. "Yas taṁ veda sa veda-vit "".

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: The one who knows this "veda-vit".)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, the one who knows the manifested Vedas. After that, He says, guṇa-pravṛddhā viṣaya-pravālāḥ (BG 15.2).

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Just like there are branches of a tree . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Similarly, this world has branches . . . the modes affecting this world.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The three modes . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Created . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27).

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "guṇa-pravṛddhā viṣaya-pravālāḥ". On one side there are the working senses, the knowledge acquiring senses and the five gross elements. All these are influenced by the modes. In the mode of goodness . . . the five sense organs - the eyes, ears, nose, tongue and touch. The mode of passion where the activities are carried out by the senses of action.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The working senses . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: These are utilised in the mode of ignorance . . . the five gross senses. These bifurcate into the three modes of nature that are descending from above.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is like "An unspeakable disaster" (Bengali euphemism). An an unspeakable disaster.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Is that like a disease?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, it is a disease. All living entities in this world are afflicted by this disease.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The basis is . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Material disease . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Disease of the mind . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Diseased mind . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . diseased mind. If there's are similar patients, then all of them gather together and see the same thing. There are various classification of living entities who take birth in this material world. Therefore, this world is a perverted reflection.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali) Hence the reality of this world is blurred . . . (indistinct) . . . Just because I have money, does that mean that will stay? The answer is the universal mind. So, even though I may not possess, my thoughts are in Brahman . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . yes creation of everything is from brahma

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That is the first idea. All other activity follows after that idea. Hence, it was said by Marx . . . (Bengali idiom about Marxism) . . . (indistinct) . . . therefore, it is stated that "Hegel's world walks on its head, while Marx's world walks on its feet."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) . . . that, "Hegel's world walks on head but Marx is saying no the world walks on its feet . . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Brain . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So first is the idea upon which the work must be based. First, construction of the plan, thereafter the work. In all matters. Similarly, first there is the consciousness that is coming from above that is . . .) independent of matter. Into clear introspection, the spirit can see spirit, can feel spirit, but matter cannot feel matter . . . (Bengali: Just like . . . (indistinct) . . .) The matter presupposes spirit. Whatever you will ascribe to your forces, it presupposes consciousness: this is his color, this is dark, this is this, this is . . . This, that means . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Consciousness studying forces.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Consciousness in a degraded state sees forces. Consciousness (Bengali: Situated in firm faith.) is there, śraddhā, himself, then superior soul . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And the supermost.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And in the ultimate reality, Kṛṣṇa - all love, all good, all beauty. That realm. Consciousness can . . . individual consciousness can live in and move in, in a land of beautiful. In the land of divine love. Anyone having any conception of beauty and love which is the prime cause of the universe . . . he cannot like anything in this world other than that Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: All his charm has vanished as soon that type of rasa, that rasa, that quality has got little . . . how you can like in the heart. Everything.

yad-anucarita-līlā-karṇa-pīyuṣa-vipruṭ
sakṛd adana-vidhūta-dvandva-dharmā vinaṣṭāḥ
sapadi gṛha-kuṭumbaṁ dīnam utsṛjya dīnā
bahava iha vihaṅgā bhikṣu-caryāṁ caranti
(SB 10.47.18)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bhramara-gītā, (Bengali: Rādhārānī says . . .)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes, yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "Yad-anucarita-līlā-karṇa-pīyuṣa-vipruṭ" . . . A drop of nectar of pure pastimes . . . līlā . . . when he has entered in any pastimes . . . then all things turn into ashes to him. "yad-anucarita-līlā-karṇa-pīyuṣa-vipruṭ, sakṛd adana-vidhūta-dvandva-dharmā vinaṣṭāḥ". He is independent of dvandva-dharmā, that is rāga-daeeṣ or this conjugal life . . . both. A permanent partner in this conjugal life . . . that is, that seems to be redundant to him, without Kṛṣṇa. So, dvandva-dharmā as well as yanda-dharma' means "rāga and the daeeṣ" all vanished.

"Dvandva-dharmā vinaṣṭāḥ, sapadi gṛha-kuṭumbaṁ". And what is the effect . . . after effect? Very soon he leaves everything. ". . .kuṭumbaṁ dīnam utsṛjya dīnā". He himself, poses himself to be very poor one and leaves his paraphernalia . . . present paraphernalia . . . and they also, without him think themselves very poorer. In this way, this " . . . iha vihaṅgā bhikṣu-caryāṁ caranti". Just as a bird from this tree to that tree removing, he also in quest of Kṛṣṇa from here to there, there to here, in this way with Kṛṣṇa in heart . . . (indistinct) . . . And sometimes they come a particular state to organise for the jiva, to help them . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So what is your advice? Shall I fly like the . . . (indistinct) . . . or return?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) . . . Accept that which is favourable. Now that all of them have gathered here, there's more to be gained if you stay here and give direction. Mādhava Mahārāja too was feels the same . . . (indistinct) . . . There's no need to run around, and not be 'penny-wise, pound-foolish', meaning . . . utilise everything in devotional service while being renounced for self-interests. Yukta-vairagya as stated in the Gita . . . 'yukta-vairagya'.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: My position is that they have received something new, so they all want to see . . . the public . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hmm?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The public also wants to see. They have sent requests from Mexico for me to visit. Same from Australia.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: As much as . . . as much as you can accommodate for them . . . you need too . . . but don't . . . not at the risk of life.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In Australia, they have organised three ratha carts on the streets.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Really?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In Melbourne. They made huge arrangements and were very keen for my presence but I did not go.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You could not go.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I couldn't go . . . (laughing) I didn't go means I could not go. Similarly, they have sent a request from London. I there last year for Ratha-yatra. It was a huge procession. We had a meeting at Trafalgar Square. There was an initiation ceremony. There were many Britishers. One of them is a bank manager with Midland Bank . . . he also received initiation. There was a function that went on for three hours, and they stood in the scorching sunshine. All of them. They turned on all the fountains at Trafalgar Square. So many people stood for three hours and watched the ceremony. After that, they ate the remnants of food offered to the Lord.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (aside) Somebody? Any one of you were present at that time at Trafalgar Square?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Because they are gifted with something from within . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: They are gifted . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is something innate, therefore many people even though they are in a difficult situation are able to accept . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: They are able to accept because it is innate. They are accepting because it is innate . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, it is possible because it is innate. When they are finding an intellectual impetus, it is fanning the fire within.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But this is not possible to achieve intellectually . . . how within . . . trying for six years . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Because this is already imprinted, people are reacting. The intellectual barrier has been crossed.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . and from there it is being extended to this mundane world of ours. That is when they are feeling encouraged.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: One intelligent boy - you have heard his name, George Harrison. He's one of the greatest musicians at the present moment, of the world. I think so?

Devotee: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: George Harrison. So he's becoming . . . he's very intelligent . . . so he's becoming interested. Now recently he has given us a house in London which is fifty-five lakhs.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: Give me some water to drink . . . warm . . . more.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Which is worth two hundred thousand Pound. Two hundred thousand Pound, ordinarily it is forty lakhs. And in the market value, because Pound is selling in India thirty, twenty-eight, at least twenty-five, in that way . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Please give him the spittoon . . .

(break)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (laughing) Keep crossing again and again . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Recently, I was very unwell.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . (indistinct) . . . Hmm.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The cough is still there. I haven't recovered completely from the illness.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: You know what has happened now? After travelling overseas for seven years, I'm now unable to tolerate very hot weather.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If you stay in Puri by the seaside, it is neither too hot or too cold there. I have also discovered that within India, Bangalore is . . . (indistinct) . . . all through the year and the winter there is mild. It has the mildest weather in all of India with mild winter and mild summer.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . (indistinct) . . . in Bangalore . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In U.S.A, Los Angeles has similar weather.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You can also have it air-conditioned. That may be easy to do.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: Of course, it can easily be air-conditioned.) but I don't like it. Air-conditioned. Artificial.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It can be suffocating . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . suffocation. Air-conditioned, I never liked.

Devotee: Will you be able to give devotional service to the air-conditioner?

(laughter)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Can do according to the qualification of one. If he is not qualified in some stages then he would . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, that would be committing offence in the name of devotional service. It is my desire, Mahārāja, to take you overseas. I you so desire. There will not be any difficulty.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Where?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: To those places where we have our centers.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (laughing) I don't leave this place. I am here with this body, and roam around in this veranda with my walking stick.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If you step outside, then . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Only during special occasions, I go to the temple.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Your heart does not beat?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Of late, it is slightly better. Only when I talk too much it happens. I have recovered from that slightly. If I talk loudly then the heart . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I have the desire to show you . . . Gaura-r sampad sei toh dekhe. What all has been done.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: There's a lot to see . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a lot to see. Particularly, our temple in Los Angeles.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Vaisnava's water must be begged for to receive mercy. Surely, by seeing all that would be a success one's devotion.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Especially the one is Los Angeles . . .

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
(CB 4.126)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: These are visionary words. So far, it has only been a visionary's dream. You have brought it to reality.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, I haven't done it. He is doing it.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes . . . due to your efforts, it has come to reality. Why shouldn't it happen, why not? It is such a massive movement . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, I had the determination . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Why won't the world get this? Why they not appreciate? (śloka from Sri Upadeṣamṛta ?) Why won't good things happen?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Won't happen . . . that's what I am thinking. the whole world is now infiltrated by communists, full of rogues . . . if the communist party can go in such large numbers, why won't Mahāprabhu's party? This is what I'm thinking . . . we only dance, sing and give prasada . . . this party won't work but the rogues party will work? (laughter) But we can see this has become a big success only by making them dance, sing and by feeding them. That's all.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: There's no other work to do. Give good food . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That's all. There's nothing else. Right from the beginning, I would cook and feed ten or twelve people. Right from the start.At that time I didn't have any disciples. On my own. I would give one or two flat bread and some prasada . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Prasada system . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, prasada system. Now, at every center we have a feast on Sundays that's attended by 300-400 people. Love feast. Big, big . . . they listen . . . they listen to Kṛṣṇa's words. They take prasada. They buy books.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Is this in general expenditure or some particular people who are contribute?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, no, general public. We have no contribution. We are solely depending on our books.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Chidananda said that, "By giving rupees one thousand, you'll get eleven hundred worth of books . . . Godhead and other publications."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, I've introduced this in India when I came in 1970.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Many big people must have taken this . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And little by little, you build a strong financial position.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. While travelling back, I was thinking that when I went overseas, I only took a few books with me and forty rupees. And when I was returning to India, my secretary, I asked him how much money we have, and he said that we have about five thousand dollars. So, I went to Japan . . . in Japan I gave that money to them, and asked them to open a Bhaktivedanta Book Fund account.

(English) And this five thousand dollar, "You take advance . . . deposit. Take my orders." So, I gave him orders - books worth fifty-two thousands of dollars, advancing five thousand dollars. And they gradually supplied to India. And they gradually supplied to India. And from USA we gradually, little by little, we paid. So that became the asset, of books. And I advised them that "You go and present these books to respectable gentlemen to become a member, and they'll become." And actually that plan became successful. Now the same members, they have not only paid eleven hundred. Now some of them, they're paying eleven thousand. Recently one gentleman belonging to the Birla family . . . eh?

Bhavānanda: L. M. Birla.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The other day, the family came there and Jagan went there . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, no. Another family. They came to our Calcutta center. In how many motors they came?

Bhavānanda: Seventeen.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Seventeen motorcars, whole family. And after seeing the Deity they presented a check for eleven thousand rupees. So by Kṛṣṇa's grace, money is coming. There is no scarcity. And they are spending here in Māyāpur. So with that five hundred . . . five thousand dollar, whatever asset is Indian now, that is from five thousand . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Also you have proved also that capital is on the other world. Capital is also . . . so it is being supplied . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now, these books suppliers, Dai Nippon, they give us credit up to two hundred thousand dollars. two hundred thousand dollars, in our Indian exchange, it is twenty lakhs of rupees. So they give us credit. We take books from them and distribute and then pay. In this way, it is going on. In Los Angeles alone we are selling . . . how many books daily?

Śrutakīrti: Two thousand, maybe. Fifteen hundred a day.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Two thousand pieces, and the collection is about eight thousand dollars . . . no, eight hundred dollars. Eight hundred dollars. So they're very anxiously taking our books. A new literature. They have no such idea, what is God, what is bhakti, how they can be explained. Our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, publisher Macmillan, within one year . . . last August they . . . the first edition. And . . . not yet August. By this time, they have finished two editions, and the third edition is in the press. That will be available in July.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Edition of how many numbers . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Fifty thousand.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Fifteen thousand.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Fifty. Five, zero.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Marvelous success.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And Bhāgavata also, we have got six volumes. So people purchase the whole set, sixty dollars.

(aside) Sixty dollars for the whole set? No? How much?

Śrutakīrti: They sell it for thirty dollars.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Thirty dollars, yes. So this is very encouraging that our books are . . . (Bengali: You've caught a cold). The books are selling like anything, these books.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hotcake. (laughter)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hotcakes, yes. (laughter) We are ordering to Dai Nippon . . . because they are giving us facilities, one hundred thousand copies each. And distributed all over the world. Australia . . . the whole . . . Australia is English-speaking. Whole America is English-speaking. England, English-speaking. And Europe also, half English-speaking. India, more than half English-speaking. So in this way, English literatures, worldwide circulation we are getting. And besides that, we have published in German language, in Spanish language. Just yesterday I received Spanish Back to Godhead. People are liking it, very much. So here is something.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who is in charge of this publication?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Publication . . . I have made one Trust, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who is the leader?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I am there, and one . . . my sannyāsī disciple, Bali-mardana.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Where is that Bali-mardana?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Bali-mardana. Bali-mardana and another, Karandhara dāsa Adhikārī. So actually he's the manager, Karandhara dāsa Adhikārī. He is looking after.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: At America?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In Los Angeles. He's very intelligent boy. He knows everything. He knows accounts, He knows how to construct building. He knows how to manage. He knows how to publish. Everything.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Versatile.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Versatile, yes. And he's not very old. And he wants to take sannyasa, the renounced order of life also. He's a grhastha, householder; he has got a child. And: "Just wait. We shall arrange for your . . . you are already sannyasi." He lives apart from his wife. So he's very nice boy.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So I do not have here one copy regularly.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, why? Why not Back to Godhead?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Last time I got I requested, but they have forgotten.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is . . . (indistinct)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Once letter to me in . . . (indistinct) . . . in Benares Candraśekhara and Navadvīpa Candraśekhara, uncle. The Benares Candraśekhara, the lekhā śūdra, and the Mahāprabhu's maternal uncle, Candraśekhara Ācārya . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Candraśekhara, yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Eh? Has been misplaced.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh, Candraśekhara Ācārya and śūdra . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And Candraśekhara . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Where?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Has been told to be this Candraśekhara, a servant Candraśekhara.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Benares Candraśekhara was a doctor.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Doctor.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And he is . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is . . . uncle.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Uncle, uncle. In Back to Godhead, you have seen it.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Back to Godhead.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Maybe.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: So much clear conception in such a small period of time that they have acquired. This is a marvelous thing. The . . . (indistinct) . . . also, ISKCON has said in such a way, this Dāmodara Svarūpa and the Paṇḍita Dāmodara. Generally, these are for public, but minute reader only can differentiate.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Dāmodara. Svarūpa Dāmodara and Dāmodara Paṇḍita.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Dāmodara Paṇḍita. Two different, but one is Lalitā. Another is a mañjarī of Candrāvalī, Paṇḍita Dāmodara.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Opposite party.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Opposite party. And this is the leader of this party, and he . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: How they came together? Caitanyākhyāṁ prakaṭam adhunā (CC Ādi-līlā 1.5)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bon Mahārāja once misplaced that very . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In which book?

Śrīla Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In this . . . many.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eh? In which book? Or he spoke in a speech or what?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In speech must be, but . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But he hasn't got many books.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: No. One Paramo dharma in Bengali, and First Year in England, Second Year in England, in this way . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is not a . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: One . . . (indistinct) . . . in German language.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eh?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What is there, I do not know. First Year in England. My First Year in England. My Second Year in England. And it was very disgusted to Prabhupāda, this . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Prabhupāda, yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And his servant.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And therefore he was called back.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Nothing. "I met that such-and-such person on such-and-such date. I met on that . . . I, that is one lecture there." Everything: "I, I, I . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (laughs) And there was a picture: "Swāmījī is playing on harmonium."

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (laughs) And Tīrtha Mahārāja is trying a . . . be a pigeon or something like that, and staring . . . these were the pictures while London preaching. And the money . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: So our, at present Tīrtha Mahārāja, Bhakti-Vilāsa-Tīrtha Mahārāja, he's representing Prabhupāda. At least, he tries to pose himself. So Bon Mahārāja's activities, in comparison to that, my activities certainly better. And Bon Mahārāja was given so much reception. But he did not give me any reception. How he can claim to be Prabhupāda's representative?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bon Mahārāja was given reception because Prabhupāda was . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, Prabhupāda appreciated anyway.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Anyway.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But here there is no appreciation.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He's representing . . . he's representing the mission, he thinks. He thinks so, but he's so poor in his . . . preaching capacity that he cannot accommodate any other in his camp than him and Vinoba Bhave. I heard a story of Maharashtra. In old age, there was a good king who encouraged the learned scholars very much. And he had got in his assembly a scholar, one Balarāma. He always looked after this, that.

No paṇḍita can have any entrance to that Maharaja. And he professed himself to be, he is the biggest pandita in the land. So once Kālidāsa . . . at the time of Kālidāsa. Kālidāsa, when he heard, then he formed a plan and went to that pandita that, "I am a poor brahmin. I want some, some sort of money from the king. You are all in all . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Recommend.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "Please recommend me." "Oh, yes." And then, "What sort of scholarship you have got? Do you . . . can you compose any poem?" "Yes. I can." "Then do it." Then: "uttiṣṭhottiṣṭha bhū-rājan mukhaṁ prakṣālaya atha, roditi na ghare kukurana vaidyuhi na vaidyo hi" This stanza. What is the meaning? (laughs) The uttiṣṭhottiṣṭha o rājan: "O King, . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Get up."

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "Wake up, wake up. Get up. Bhū-rājan mukhaṁ prakṣālaya atha." "And . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Wash up.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ". . . cleanse your mouth. Wash your mouth." And ta . . . then what is this ta? "Well, keep it in your hand." Roditi na ghare kukura . . . "The ta must come here." Roditi na ghare kukura ta . . . hen. "That ta is placed there in advance; that ta must come here." Roditi na ghare kukura ta. "But for the caṇḍa, and it has been removed there. And that one word, the place was empty. So this ta has been positioned, has been placed there." Roditi na ghare kukura. "And what is this ca vai tu hi, ca vai tu hi? No." "This is ca-vai-tu-hi, all these letters only to pada, for pada pūraṇa. So this fourth pada, I could not fill up. So these four things have been placed here." Ca vai tu hi, "Oh, that's very good. I'll put it to the king."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He saw it is very intelligent.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "How, how a scholar I am I! I wrote this is the specimen of other scholars." (Bengali: Then very lovingly he explained, and delivered it and then started showering . . .)

And this sort of poems was produced by him in the court. The king was charmed. This man was perplexed. So Tīrtha Mahārāja is like Balarāma. And he, and he . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Nobody should be allowed. (laughter)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And when he find man comes around him, then he will be nowhere to the . . . He's, he's, he knows one thing, that Haritaki. You know that story of Haritaki.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He knows this chānār-dālna (a traditional Bengali preparation of cottage cheese curry)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Chānār-dālna is everything to him, just as Haritaki to that fabulous Kavirāja. chānār-dālna . . . that Rama Prasad that Rama Chaudhury and there is so many, he is like . . . (indistinct) . . . that Tushār Kānti . . . and he has got one thing, I . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Tushar Kanti very much appreciates.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Whom?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, this chānār-dālna. (laughs) Because that Gaura Mahārāja, you know?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, I know.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He told me that he was given . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He wanted election of Vāsudeva Prabhu, Gaura Mahārāja, and that Bhagavānānanda, but Paraśu asrama. But anyhow, he escaped and he came to Tīrtha Mahārāja, his former relative, old Tīrtha Mahārāja.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Old Tīrtha Mahārāja.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Former relative. Then Tīrtha Mahārāja told him that "What about my guru?" "Well, if your guru on one side, another bullock in another side, and if you can plow and produce some crops, and that can be offered to Mahāprabhu, then your guru may have a path of relish." (laughs) See what Tīrtha Mahārāja says: "This is blasphemy."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (laughs)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "No, it is true, but this is very cruel. But this is truth."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: If he's presently the (Bengali: Solid impersonalist.) If he's used passively by a great man, then only in that way he can come this side. Not in front walking. Not by front walking. Only by back drawing he can be taken to this side only. It is quite true. That . . . so Cinmayānanda, now Gaura Mahārāja, he . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Cinmayānanda, Gaura Mahārāja.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . knows me better, and he, he's a paid goswami of those Patrikā persons.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And they are exploiting him; he's exploiting them.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This time, in their meeting, they made me chief guest. But I did not attend.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That's a lower position.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: In, in a big meeting, they made me chief guest.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He wants to show, show that, "I have got . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That, that . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ". . . such big man."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oṁkāranātha . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Was president, was made president.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And that, uh . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And yourself, Mādhava Mahārāja and Tīrtha Mahārāja invited to be Vice-President. I heard.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh. Mādhava Mahārāja went there.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Went there.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. He lectured. And I did not go.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And Tīrtha Mahārāja did not go.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I do not know. Tīrtha Mahārāja did not go.

Bhavānanda: They were made vice-presidents, but Śrīla Prabhupāda was asked to be chief speaker.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Once when I was in a hut here, then Ānandamayī came to Navadvīpa, and one devotee, Mano-rañjana, he wanted to bring Ānandamayī here. I refused, that "I won't be able to pay any respect to her. She's a (Bengali: solid impersonalist)." I saw that she, with a cow in her back and with the flute . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a picture like that.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Picture. So it is abhorrent. I refused, that "I won't, however she may be . . ." She was not so great as she is now . . . famous, but I refused. What I need for him . . . for her? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tīrtha Mahārāja is of this type, this type. I had one Sanskrit verse devoted to Prabhupāda:

Gaurī-gaṅga-taṭe nava-braja navadvīpe tu māyāpure
śrī caitanyam atha prakāśa-kamaru jīvaika-kalanaudhi
śrī-siddhānta-sarasvatīti milito gaurī gurvanyaiḥ
bhartur bhamriba prabhāta gagane rūpānuga-pūjitau
(Composed by Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Siddhanthi (indistinct) . . . He told the composer of this poem, "He has got not a place in the (Bengali: Spiritual establishment.) of Prabhupāda. Who can praise him in such a poem, he cannot, he have no place . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Place.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: ". . . of accommodation in his own, in the (Bengali: Spiritual establishment) of Prabhupāda." (Bengali: How to say it in English?) Adṛṣṭi-parihāsa. What will be the English expression? Adṛṣṭi-parihāsa. Kasno . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Desire.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I have got another (Bengali: Verse.) That is, that will be very effective to have a clear conception of Prabhupāda's mission:

nikhilo bhuvana-mayacchino vicchino karteji
vivhala bahuta mukti mohan tadatri
siti-liti-vidhi rādhā rādhā-rādhe sādhane
vilasatu dviji taṁ bhaktisiddhānta vāṇī
(Composed by Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: This is your composition?)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: A clear picture of Prabhupāda's mission. "Visi siti mayachinna vichinna kartri. And vibudha bahula vimudhe means scholars. Vibudha bahula vigdha mukti moha dartri . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The moha.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Eh?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: That liberation is an attachment . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Moha. That has been put to an end. Mukti mohan antadatri is next. What more? siti-liti-vidhi . . . (indistinct) . . . This is their vani. Goods and materials.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Radhesya dhami

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Dhami. Rajdhani

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh. yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Similarly Radhesya dhani. At Radhanath was the meeting.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Kingdom. Kingdom of Krsna.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Kingdom of Radhanath. (indistinct) . . .)

(Bengali conversation continues, with many Sanskrit verses praising Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: In Bombay . . . when you and I were there, he said . . . Mahārāja . . . Prabhupada said: " Bhakti . . . Bhakti-rakṣak Śrīdhara Mahārāja, in future, will be the protector of our bhakti."

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He said that?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He said that.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He appreciated the verses I wrote in glorification of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhakura. I had shown that writing to him in Darjeeling:

lokanam hita-kamyaya bhagavato bhakti-pracaras tvaya
granthanam racanaih satam abhimatair nana vidhair darsitah
acaryaih krta-purvam eva kila tad ramanujadyair budhaih
premambho-nidhi-vigrahasya bhavato mahatmya-sima na tat
(Srimad Bhaktivinoda-viraha-dasakam 6 - Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He was very happy to read this . . . (indistinct) . . . happy style and the thought was very . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Your writing is . . . (indistinct)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He said: "If you preach the path of devotional service through your writing . . . preaching for the benefit of the world. Even though Ācārya Paṇdita, Ācārya Rāmānuja have done this previously, however, your ability is not limited by any constraints."

yad dhamnah khalu dhama caiva nigame brahmeti samjnayate
yasyamsasya kalaiva duhkha-nikarair yogesvarair mrgyate
vaikunthe paramukta-bhrnga-carano narayano yah svayam
tasyamsi bhagavan svayam rasa-vapuh krsno bhavan tat-pradah
(Srimad Bhaktivinoda-viraha-dasakam 7 - Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is, yad dhamnah khalu dhama caiva nigame brahmeti samjnayate'. 'Nigame means in the Vedas, whose . . . whose . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Means Brahman . . . Brahman . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, Who's effulgence . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Transcendental bodily effulgence . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . has been referred to as Brahman . . . 'dhamnah khalu dhama . . ." Dhama means effulgence. Who's effulgence . . . halo . . . has been mentioned as Brahman in the Vedas . . . dhamnah khalu dhama . . . nigame brahmeti samjnayate and yasyamsasya kalaiva duhkha-nikarair yogesvarair mrgyate This refers to the yogis who perform great austerities to realize that part of the part of the Supreme Lord as the Supersoul within . . . (indistinct) . . . vaikunthe paramukta-bhrnga-carano . . .' And in reality, those who are serving the lotus feet of the Lord in Vaikuṅṭha . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Devotional service.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . serving the Lord, that person's service . . . take this from Rāmānujā.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Rāmānujā is in Vaikuṅṭha.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, Vaikuṅṭha. vaikunthe paramukta-bhrnga-carano narayano yah svayam That has great respect . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes, of course.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . tasyamsi bhagavan svayam rasa-vapuh krsno bhavan tat-pradah The first installment. After that:

sarvacintya-maye paratpara-pure-goloka-vrndavane
cil-lila rasa-rangini parivrta sa radhika sri-hareh
vatsalyadirasais ca sevita-tanor madhurya-seva-sukham
nityam yatra muda tanoti hi bhavan tad dhama-seva-pradah
(Srimad Bhaktivinoda-viraha-dasakam 8 - Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: After that, who are you? The one who is participating in the conjugal pastimes of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇacandra, who is enjoying Himself along with Rādharāni and Her friends.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Goloka Vṛndavana.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: sarvacintya-maye paratpara-pure-goloka-vrndavane, cil-lila rasa-rangini parivrta sa radhika sri-hareh, vatsalyadirasais ca sevita-tanor madhurya-seva-sukham, nityam yatra muda tanoti . . . transcendental love is being distributed . . . hi bhavan tad dhama-seva-pradah You can render that devotional service to that transcendental realm. Then, the third installment:

sri-gauranumatam svarupa-viditam rupagrajenadrtam
rupadyaih parivesitam raghu-ganair asvaditam sevitam
jivadyair abhiraksitam suka-siva-brahmadi-sammanitam
sri-radha-pada-sevanamrtam aho tad datum iso bhavan
(Srimad Bhaktivinoda-viraha-dasakam 9 - Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Other than this, you can receive something even bigger . . . what is that? The knowledge that Mahāprabhu granted

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Love of the Supreme Person.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The Supreme Person through Rādhārani's vision.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Only if She grants, it is possible. The purport of this is understood by Svarūpa Dāmodara who is Lalita . . . "sri-gauranumatam svarupa-viditam" and "rupagrajenadrtam" that Sanātana honoured . . . and "rupadyaih parivesitam" that was established by Rūpa Gosvāmi. Rūpa Raghunātha who accepted and successfully spread the mission. Jīva and his associates secured this knowledge. 'Abhiraksitam . . . jivadyair abhiraksitam" and "suka-siva-brahmadi-sammanitam" Suka, Śiva, Brahma are watching over from a distance. So much so that, "sri-radha-pada-sevanamrtam aho tad datum iso bhavan" This is astounding . . . (indistinct) . . . It has disappeared in a minute.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: After that,

kvaham manda-matis tv ativa-patitah kva tvam jagat-pavanah
bho svamin krpayaparadha-nichayo nunam tvaya ksamyatam
yache 'ham karuna-nidhe! varam imam padabja-mule bhavat-
sarvvasvavadhi-radhika-dayita-dasanam gane ganyatam
(Srimad Bhaktivinoda-viraha-dasakam 10 - Śrīdhara Mahārāja)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is the last stanza. "kvaham manda-matis" . . . I've fallen in some place . . . "ativa-patitah kva tvam jagat-pavanah, bho svamin" . . . I have made mistakes . . . "krpayaparadha-nichayo" other than your mercy, I have no hope . . . "yache 'ham karuna-nidhe!" I'm begging for your benediction . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "varam imam padabja-mule bhavat-, sarvvasvavadhi-radhika-dayita-dasanam gane ganyatam" your most beloved Rādhā . . . (indistinct) . . . please include me in that group . . . where you, Prabhupāda are . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Not by surpassing the spiritual master . . . I'm asking for your blessings . . . the grandfather is on your head . . . back. (laughs) . . . (indistinct) . . . please give me your mercy and a place in that gathering of your much loved ones that you are in. These are the verses. Prabhupāda was very satisfied after reading.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This work of your's has been published.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . It has been published at Prafula Jivan.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . (indistinct))

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . so many fruit trees.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ah, yes. Do it gradually. And the more beautiful, they will do it in their time.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eh? This is very beautiful species.

Śrutakīrti: Yes, big birds and . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatāka: Engineer was saying that if we have a big tree around the building, then it blocks the view of the building. (laughter) We will make such beautiful building and no one will see it through the trees . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What does he say?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If we cover with these gardens big, big trees, then the beautiful building will be covered. So therefore he wants to keep it barren. (laughter)

Devotee: That is how the engineer always sees his engineering.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: You see, Vṛndāvanam, Gauravanam. The vegetable class is not eliminated. They have got their part to play, and that is not to be neglected. At night . . . at night . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I think, Mahārāja, after your coming here, all these trees have grown.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Only these trees . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Only the mango tree I remember . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Others have grown. At night in the forest pastimes, holding a principal part of the kṛṣṇa-līlā. And when pasturing the cows, then also, forest is necessary. So it will arouse in your mind the memory of Vṛndāvana and the Gauravana. They have got their part to play. And what Uddhava says?

āsām aho caraṇa-reṇu-juṣām ahaṁ syāṁ
vṛndāvane kim api gulma-latauṣadhīnām
yā dustyajaṁ sva-janam ārya-pathaṁ ca hitvā
bhejur mukunda-padavīṁ śrutibhir vimṛgyām
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.47.61)

"I aspire after the birth of a shrub or creeper or a grass in this land because I may have chance of being . . . having been tread by Your, those divine damsels. Then their feet dust will be on me." So that is a necessary and important part, this vegetable kingdom . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . of Vṛndāvana and Gauravana. They will arouse in your mind the first real memory of Kṛṣṇa and His pastimes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And help you, help you. Green. (Bengal: They are creating a green revolution.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Green revolution," is there a political party by that name?)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But real (Bengali: Green) is there in Vṛndāvana, the source of all (Bengali: Green). This sabuja (green) will die, will be dried out.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Wither away.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: The source of real greens, youthful greens, constant greens, constant greenness, is only there, youthful. Nitya kaisore sthiti. Eh?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: (aside) . . . (indistinct) . . . do you understand English?

Young devotee: No.)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If you aspire to be Maharaja's disciple, you will have to . . . (indistinct)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (chants sloka)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: How does that translate?) Everyone is a kiśora. Kiśora means youth. (Bengali: How else can kiśora be translated other than youth?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: It is the stage before youth.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, before youth . . .)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Pre-youth.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Pre-youth. Kiśora.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Pre-youthtime, kiśora.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Pre-youthtime. And there it stands.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: Mahārāja, who stays in this room?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Some spiritual books are kept here.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Ah . . . spiritual books.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mostly spiritual books. However, from time to time due to fear of robbers and dacoits . . . (indistinct) . . . There's no fear but . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Have there been any robberies or dacoity?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hasn't happened but it does here and there in some temples . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We have bought two guns. There is a lot of robbery and dacoity happening there, that's why we have got two guns.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Ah! Good you have got. Sometimes you need to scare them suddenly . . .

Young Devotee: I have seen, with bayonet.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bayonet, with bayonet . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There are no bayonets.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He's saying there are bayonets.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There is bayonet?) (aside) We have got with bayonets also with our gun?

Devotee: Yes.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Oh!

Devotee: They are separate.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Separate? Yes bayonet is separate.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: To scare away . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: The police officers visit us, they come. Many of them come, like the District Magistrate and all.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: They will come, they will come to see. This area has become a rut.) Now, on the real basis of this downpour of the . . . of the civilized people here because of Mahāprabhu . . . (indistinct) . . . (Bengali: First of all the hippy, then the PL, what is called . . . spy. Once these can be got rid of, then the real . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That's what is happening now.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: We are slowly coming to that stage. They are not being able to fathom why such people will come here.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Other than the ostentatious, what is real in this? Then, they will help to understand reality. Given after crossing material enjoyment and liberation, then proper devotion.) So in their life, when they're trying that all material and political tendencies has been pushed down of some aspiration of high divine nectar, then in clans they will come and bow down.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (Bengali: The value of their sacrifice is greater than ours.)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (sloka) Mostly people hankers after wealth and . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Material . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes . . . material

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Money and woman.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Money and power. Power and money. At present, mastery over prakṛiti . . . that is nature. That is the general quest of educated society. They want to be masters of these material forces. But they have neglected neutron from the beginning . . . that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Down this fact but making progress very joyfully. But, in no time they will have to feel that the reaction has begun. Hmm?

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ
(SB 10.2.32)
ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ
punar āvartino 'rjuna
mām upetya tu kaunteya
punar janma na vidyate
(BG 8.16)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "yā yathā bhuvi vartante . . ." (Skanda Purāṇa) Nectar and nectar. Assurance and full of nectar . . . (indistinct) . . . (Bengali: Said this and I repeat it sometimes, that in the verse "sarva-dharmān parityajya . . ." :(BG 18.66), the Supreme Lord Himself has given this on a gold platter in the end . . . (indistinct) . . . Despite being caught in politics, yet he was . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He was a learned scholar . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: He was a learned scholar, and he understood that the Supreme Lord is giving great assurance. When he was very worried, when he was fatigued, and exhausted and he surrendered to the Supreme Lord . . .)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Mokṣayiṣyāmi . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "You are my son, Oh you have come to Me. No matter, nothing. You are welcome."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: All accounts adjusted. Come on!

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, all accounts adjusted . . . (indistinct) . . . Full of assurance.

dīkṣā-kāle bhakta kare ātma-samarpaṇa
sei-kāle kṛṣṇa tāre kare ātma-sama
(CC Antya Lila 4.192)
sei deha kare tāra cid-ānanda-maya
aprākṛta-dehe tāṅra caraṇa bhajaya
(CC Antya Lila 4.192)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Whenever, that divine function of converging a man of mundane aspiration begins, directed towards the divinity, with that . . . by that operation, the transformation begins. Hmm?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Transformation begins from the very day . . . time of operation that, "I have accepted." As a representative of the Supreme, "I accept you." There it begins. And the gradual transformation going on. "Sei deha kare tāra cid-ānanda-maya" (CC Antya 4.192). The conception, (Bengali: The false ego), the ego that consisted of many mundane thoughts and ideas, that changes. And another ego emerged, emerged from that sort of raw ego. A fine ego emerges, and gradually he sees himself that, "Who am I? That, "I am a serving unit." A serving unit not in Vaikunṭha but in Goloka. (sloka)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali: Sukadeva Gosvami in Naimi forest is saying that, "All the old thoughts that you have . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . kindly give up that dress, give up your hair and beard." (laughter) Discard your hair and beard, cut your lust. Your Listen to this child Sukadeva. You are bringing all kinds of things for enjoyment. In Atal Ray Candra's . . . language and bourgeois in their language. Change your bourgeois style, and listen to child Sukadeva.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: He has no beard and hair . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: No beard, no hair. He has no clothes, so what to speak of hair and beard. He is not even wearing any clothes, and all of you are clothed human beings. What a contrast-ness there is. There is a certain relativity . . . the rascals wear clothes for gratification . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Vyāsadeva was told by the girls . . . all of them were draped in clothing . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (laughs) ". . . strī-pum-bhidā na tu sutasya vivikta-dṛṣṭeḥ . . . devyo hriyā paridadhur na sutasya citram" (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.4.5)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Hmm. One of my girls, she painted a picture about that . . . when the girls put clothes on after seeing Vyasadeva, and Sukadeva . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . but notes need to be added to that . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: A note must be added to the painting . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Note is there.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In the context of the clothing. Sometimes there is no clothing Brahmaloka, but soon as they are going to . . . (indistinct) . . . the dress is . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . there is a dress there . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . there, there is construction. That is different. Clothing and everything is there.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: There there is everything . . . everything is . . . (indistinct)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: But that . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That has nothing to do with this . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is . . . this has to be denied.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: This is imitation.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: This is denial.) It is complete denial of this mundane civilisation is Sukadeva who does not consider the necessity of a cloth. (Bengali: He does not even feel the need for any clothing, so all your material grandeur, He urinates on . . . this attainment.) No attainment can charm Him because He does not want a cloth even to wrap around. So, a complete discarding of this civilisation, then begins the unalloyed land . . . (indistinct)

pariniṣṭhito 'pi nairguṇya
uttama-śloka-līlayā
gṛhīta-cetā rājarṣe
ākhyānaṁ yad adhītavān
(SB 2.1.9)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Brahma-saṁhitam . . . "idaṁ bhāgavataṁ nāma, purāṇaṁ brahma-sammitam" (SB 1.3.40). Brahma-saṁhita . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: . . . saṁhitam.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Brahma means the . . . (indistinct) . . . That has been measured with . . . (indistinct) . . . That has been completely weighed, measured by Brahma. (Bengali: This percentage of Brahma. This Brahma is this percent in Narayana. This percent in Dvaraka. This much percent in Ramacandra. This percent . . .) full . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Cent percent.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Cent percent is Kṛṣṇa in Vṛndāvana. In this way it has been measured.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Cent percent. Paraṁ Brahma . . . "paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma, pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān" :(BG 10.12)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Spoken by Lord Brahma. "idaṁ bhāgavataṁ nāma, purāṇaṁ brahma-sammitam" In another interpretation . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Accepted by the Vedas.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Veda . . . Brahma-saṁhitam. Equally, equally stands with the place of Veda. Saṁhitam. Spoken by Lord Brahma. "idaṁ bhāgavataṁ nāma, purāṇaṁ brahma-sammitam" (recites another sloka) Maha-pauriṣi.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Maha-pauriṣi.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Maha-pauriṣiko. "Not an ordinary type of student you are. I understand that you, you are a real enquirer. Enquirer of truth, and I shall fill up your trust.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Bright student. Bright student.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Bright.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Maha-pauruṣa.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Maha-pauriṣiko . . . (indistinct) . . . Pauriṣiko means . . . (indistinct) . . . who is aspiring, not running after fleeting desire but who is master of his own . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Interest.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . own home, and has the patient, has the patient position to enquire what is really beneficial to him.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Svārtha-gatiṁ (explained by Srila Prabhupada during his lecture of Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 6.1.26 on 11th July 1975 in Chicago)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Svārtha-gatiṁ. " . . . svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ, durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ" (SB 7.5.32).

Śrīla Prabhupāda: "na te viduḥ"

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: "You are the real searcher of truth. You are a real research student. And I shall fill up your . . ."

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Aspirations.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Aspirations. (sloka). And all the Rsis who were there, they were dumb, nothing to speak or remark. With folded palm, they were patiently hearing the boy saint . . . a boy of sixteen, He's bringing such thought . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: (aside to devotees) If you manufacture one palanquin . . . palanquin. You know palanquin? Then sometimes you can carry Śrīdhara Mahārāja there. (laughter) Yes. It will be great service and benefit for you. Because he's, he's very now . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Feeble.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Feeble now. So palanquin is all right. He can be carried in palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now, this is the palanquin. (Bengali: In our country, palanquin was commonly used . . .)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: It will be a ludicrous exhibit, sitting demonstration . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No, why? All aristocratic kings, they were carried by palanquin.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes, it was previously.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: And . . .

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Now the motorcar has taken place, and more advanced . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Motor, motorcar, there is jerking.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: . . . helicopter.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Now, now we . . . this . . . recently, before coming here, one of my student, Śyāmasundara, he took me from the airport on helicopter to my temple, and he spent over one thousand pounds for that rascal thing. (laughter) Unnecessarily. "Why you have spent unnecessarily?" No.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: What this mundane man?

Devotee: (Bengali: Would you like some water, Mahārāja?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Who you? . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. Mahārāja, how about you?

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) . . . I have eaten tapioca. Later, I will eat a little . . . (indistinct)

Śrīla Prabhupāda: I know, your eating is restricted. My eating too is becoming like that . . .

(laughter)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) . . . we have to feed this stomach . . . I remember . . . (indistinct) . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: That is not a part of eating. But I did not eat anything . . . (indistinct)

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Alright. There is nothing more to eat . . . (indistinct) . . . Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna (recites some verses) . . .

Śrīla Prabhupāda: All right, everything for them . . . (indistinct) . . .

Devotee: Can I can give them little later?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: All right, Mahārāja, I will . . .) (end)