720513 - Conversation on BG 6.11-14- Honolulu
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Prabhupāda: . . . and the cheaters come and cheat them . . . (indistinct) . . . here it is clearly stated:
- śucau deśe pratiṣṭhāpya
- sthiram āsanam ātmanaḥ
- nāty-ucchritaṁ nāti-nīcaṁ
- cailājina-kuśottaram
- tatraikāgraṁ manaḥ kṛtvā
- yata-cittendriya-kriyaḥ
- upaviśyāsane yuñjyād
- yogam ātma-viśuddhaye
(To practice yoga, one should go to a secluded place and should lay kuśa-grass on the ground and then cover it with a deerskin and a soft cloth. The seat should neither be too high nor too low and should be situated in a sacred place. The yogī should then sit on it very firmly and should practice yoga by controlling the mind and the senses, purifying the heart and fixing the mind on one point.)
Supreme. The heart and the soul. Yoga is meant for that. Samaṁ kāya-śiro-grīvaṁ (BG 6.13).
That is come on, a straight line. Samaṁ kāya-śiro-grīvaṁ, neck. Dhārayann acalaṁ sthiraḥ: stand still. Samprekṣya nāsikāgraṁ svaṁ diśaś cānavalokayan (BG 6.13): no, not even seeing any other thing. Praśāntātmā vigata-bhīr: and a happy attitude; without any fear. Brahmacāri-vrate sthitaḥ: con . . . fully celibacy, brahmacāri.
Vrata: not by name brahmacāri—by vow. No sex life. Brahmacāri-vrate sthitaḥ. Manaḥ saṁyamya mac-citto yukta āsīta mat-paraḥ (BG 6.14):
"In this way one should be engaged in meditation, thinking always of Me,"mat-paraḥ.
This is yoga. What is he has recommended? He can do whatever he likes. And haṭha-yoga also, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, according to Kapila Muni, that is also yaṁa. Why? Immediately beginning, yaṁ, yaṁ, āsana, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, eh? Then samādhi . . . (indistinct) . . . this means this man is cheating everyone. This man is cheating; he does not know what is yoga. And because these Western rascals, they want to be cheated, they come and take money, and they think they are yogī. They are not yogī. Give them a challenge: quote these verses from Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavatam. One cannot manufacture a science out of his own brain.
Śyāmasundara: Is . . . didn’t you, er . . . I heard some quote from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam a while ago about . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. Give me that . . . (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: "In this age, men will come . . ."
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gaurasundara: Something about in Kali-yuga, men will . . . men will follow bogus teachers or something?
Prabhupāda: That is Kali-yuga. So . . . (indistinct) . . . is all right.
Govinda dāsī: (laughs)
Prabhupāda: "Let us follow all bogus, and then . . ." Just like the people say, they are testing to do these things. Why do it? Why you are forbidden? They are the symptoms of Kali-yuga. But one has to avoid them.
Śyāmasundara: Huh. Yes.
Prabhupāda: That we are teaching. In the Sixth Canto, first chapter . . .
Śyāmasundara: Which verse?
Prabhupāda: Verse number 12. Verse number 11, 12, 13. Fourteen also. There are so many. How many we have got.
Śyāmasundara: Is there one that mentions the four pillars of sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. These four pillars of sinful activities: yatra pāpaś catur-vidhāḥ (SB 1.17.38).
Śyāmasundara: Which verse is that? There’s one where the king . . . er . . .
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is First Canto.
Śyāmasundara: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . (pause)
Govinda dāsī: (japa)
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Seventeenth Chapter.
Śyāmasundara: First Canto, Seventeenth Chapter . . .
Prabhupāda: Seventeenth Chapter, thirty-eighth verse.
Śyāmasundara: Thirtieth?
Prabhupāda: Thirty-eight.
Śyāmasundara: Thirty-eight.
Prabhupāda:
- abhyarthitas tadā tasmai
- sthānāni kalaye dadau
When he was asked to go out, he said:
- yatra kva vātha vatsyāmi
- sārva-bhauma tavājñayā
"You are asking me to go out, so let me know what shall I do, because everything belongs to you. You asked me to go out of your kingdom, but everywhere is still your kingdom. So let me know, where shall I go?"
- tatra tatrāpi tvām śarāsanam
- tan me dharma-bhṛtāṁśreṣṭha
- sthānaṁ nirdeṣṭum arhasi
"If you just designate . . . (indistinct) . . ."
- yatraiva niyato vatsya
- ātiṣṭhaṁs te 'nuśāsanam
"I can peacefully live there, abiding by your order."
- abhyarthitas tadā tasmai
- sthānāni kalaye dadau
When he was asked by Parīkṣit to get him places, whether dyūtaṁ pānaṁ striyaḥ sūnā yatrādharmaś catur-vidhaḥ (SB 1.17.38).
Dyūta: "Where there is gambling, where there is drinking, where there is illicit sex, and where there is animal slaughter—go there."Yatrādharmaś catur-vidhaḥ. These four kinds of sinful activities are going on. And this is the whole world. Gambling and drinking, illicit sex and slaughterhouse. The whole Western world especially . . . no, everyone. In India also the same thing—but still less.
Śyāmasundara: Much less.
Prabhupāda: Still less. Still they are ashamed. But here there is no shame—shameless.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda:
- punaś ca yācamānāya
- jāta-rūpam adāt prabhuḥ
- tato 'nṛtaṁ madaṁ kāmaṁ
- rajo vairaṁ ca pañcamam
(pause)
Then he asked that, "It is very difficult for me to go to four places. Better give me one place where four things are there." (laughs) So:
- punaś ca yācamānāya
- jāta-rūpam adāt prabhu
Catur-vidhaksa api etad ati danum deheti punar jāta-rūpam sauvarṇa. Then he gave him gold: "You take this gold, and one who possesses gold—all these four things are there."
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) That's the whole key, because Maharishi is after money.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Śyāmasundara: He can't get money unless he allows those things to go on. That can be the punch line in the whole letter.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
- amūni pañca sthānāni
- hy adharma-prabhavaḥ kaliḥ
- auttareyeṇa dattāni
- nyavasat tan-nideśa-kṛt
So these five kind of sinful places are given by Parīkṣit Mahārāja to Kali.
Śyāmasundara: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: You can quote these ślokas.
Śyāmasundara: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . make a copy. (indistinct conversation with Govinda dāsī)
Govinda dāsī: You mean Prabhupāda’s?
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Govinda dāsī: I don't know if I have it here, or if I have it in the . . .
Prabhupāda: Well, you can get—all these ślokas.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Pradyumna: They want to get an English translation.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Śyāmasundara: I want to put it in English also, so people can read it.
Pradyumna: From the first three volumes translation . . .
Prabhupāda: I think I have translated it already.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Pradyumna: They want to get the volumes, the three volumes. They don't have it here. Not here. They’ll get it from the temple.
Prabhupāda: It is in the first volume.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. They had it at the temple, so . . .
Prabhupāda: Seventeenth Chapter.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Seventeenth Chapter means this may be in the third volume.
Pradyumna: Third volume.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Third volume.
Prabhupāda: These are already discussed.
Pradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pradyumna: In one of those verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam . . .
Prabhupāda: So all these GBC members, they must be well expert in explaining; otherwise what is the use of this writing, taking so much labor, books? They should go, preach, understand. And when there is difficulty, I am present. They are already explained. I am taking so much pain in writing books. If you don't read—if you simply make it for sale—then what is the use? Just these all rascals should be challenged vigorously. They are misleading the whole population, and blaspheming the Indian spiritual culture. People are depending so much on this culture for their upliftment, and they are blackmailing for money’s sake. People have to be . . . they want to be cheated, that's all right. But our business is to save them.
Śyāmasundara: I thought you were saying that we shouldn't criticize these people in public.
Prabhupāda: No, no. To criticize means . . . of course, when you are preaching, we have to show the real truth. And that is not criticizing. It is just like if you call a thief a thief. If you point out, "This man is thief," this is not criticizing. If I warn that "Don't mix with Gaurasundara; he is a thief," and suppose he is a thief, is it criticizing? We are saying that "This is the path of yoga system . . . (indistinct) . . ."
Śyāmasundara: Hmm. Yeah . . . (indistinct) . . . we have to do this.
Prabhupāda: "And this is not." So if we distinguish, "This man is thief and this man is not," then that is not criticism; that is speaking the truth.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Our mood should be objective then.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: It shouldn't be personal attack.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now he has mentioned that, so you should point out . . .
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: . . . generously, what is actual yoga.
Śyāmasundara: Very objectively: "Here is the right path . . ."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ". . . as enunciated by the authorities. This is his statement, so that you can see the difference."
Prabhupāda: Anyway, criticize or not criticize, we have to give everything carefully. But our preaching must be to save the people from pitfalls.
Śyāmasundara: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Acyutānanda has done a great service.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: A great service, in Navadvīpa. And therefore he has been elected as secretary.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They are appreciating.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, we shall preach. It is true that our authorities . . . always reading should be continually going on in our centers. These books, regularly should be discussed and preached: the ideal life of Kṛṣṇa, ideal gṛhastha, householder, what He is doing. Our gṛhastha is not condemned, but provided he is right gṛhastha. But Kṛṣṇa had sixteen thousand wives. He is lying down there with Kṛṣṇa . . . they are lying down, and who can leave Kṛṣṇa? If one has got Kṛṣṇa . . . they know Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So they are embracing Kṛṣṇa. How much happy they are? Eh?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: But still Kṛṣṇa gets out.
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) As soon as the first cock is crowing.
Prabhupāda: How much devoted, beautiful. They are select . . . spiritual, they are not material. Their bodies are not material bodies. Kṛṣṇa does not embrace a material woman.
Śyāmasundara: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: All these queens are spiritual. All the gopīs, they are spiritual. Ānanda-cinmaya-rāsa-pratibhāvitābhis (Bs 5.37): and they are all made of ānanda-cinmaya-rāsa.
So He is showing the life of a gṛhastha: early rising, giving in charity to the Brāhmiṇs, and living daily duty. Still, He has got children, getting children married somehow or another. So gṛhastha life is not bad—never bad. Kṛṣṇa is gṛhastha. Our worshipable Lord is gṛhastha. He’s not sannyāsa. Is it sannyāsa? Why He should be? He is the supreme enjoyer, why He should be sannyāsa . . . sannyāsi? Enjoyer . . . sannyāsī is not enjoyer. But His description is enjoyer. Now how enjoyer can be sannyāsī? But He is still sannyāsī—renounced, everything. That is the point.
Śyāmasundara: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: He has got so many enjoyable wives, but still, just at time, renouncing everything. Enjoyer, at the same time renouncer. Renouncement is also opulence.
Śyāmasundara: Hmm.
- Prabhupāda Aiśvaryasya samagrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ . . .jñāna-vairāgya.
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)
He is enjoying, but He has no attachment for all these things—either for wife or children or this building or anything. At any moment He can give up. The gopīs, in a moment He gave up, went to Mathura. They began to cry and they wanted to stop the chariot, and so many things. He said, "Yes. Don't be agitated. I am coming, I am coming." Like that. And practically He never came back. He left at the age of 15, 16 years old, then He became engaged in fighting, being educated and marrying and becoming king and so on, so on. Once He came, Krsna and Balarama, once, when They had grandchildren. And once He came, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma met the gopīs in Kurukṣetra, when they came—maybe I have mentioned already. When the cowherd boys went to see Him at Kurukṣetra battle, when they heard how "Kṛṣṇa, our friend, is fighting," they could see, "Oh?" (laughs) They were village cowherds men. They saw so many kings, so "We cannot enter."
Śyāmasundara: Kurukṣetra . . .
Prabhupāda: They could not forget Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: Kurukṣetra is near Delhi somewhere?
Prabhupāda: I . . . you were with me, no? When we were coming back from Amritsar.
Syāmasundara: Yes. I saw . . .
Prabhupāda: I showed you the Kurukṣetra station.
Syāmasundara: Ah! Before Delhi somewhere.
Prabhupāda: Still the station is there. People go for pilgrimage. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre is proof. And they are commentating in that . . . actually, the name, still the name is continuing.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: The station, actually station, people are going for pilgrimage.
Śyāmasundara: Ah.
Prabhupāda: And they are commentating . . . (indistinct) . . . dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1).
Śyāmasundara: In Vṛndāvana all the names are the same still—Gokula . . .
Prabhupāda: Yamunā, Govardhana . . .
Śyāmasundara: . . . and Varṣāṇā.
Prabhupāda: Varṣāṇā name is recent.
Śyāmasundara: Ah, Nanda-grāma . .
Prabhupāda: Nanda-grāma is old.
Śyāmasundara: Old.
Prabhupāda: Nanda-grāma is not . . . (indistinct) . . . Vṛndāvana, in the Vṛndāvana area, now they are divided. Rādhārāṇī was also born in Gokula.
Śyāmasundara: Ah. They say She was born . . .
Prabhupāda: No. Maternal, maternal uncle . . .
Śyāmasundara: Her parents lived in Varṣāṇā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the spirit of Acyutānanda life is being challenged by these so-called avatāras. He has dragged also Ramakrishna. Explain. Also our Govinda dāsī has done that.
Gaurasundara: Yes, she has done it also. Siddha-svarūpa.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gaurasundara: Siddha-svarūpa. Dragged him into our camp.
Govinda dāsī: (laughs) He was dragged. He was holding one very big meeting, and I went with two girls, two brahmacāriṇīs, and read your letter in front of his whole seventy, one hundred people—the letter where you denounced him. And he was hanging his head. And about five days later he joined you, after he got your letter. You know that letter you wrote? Do you remember it?
Prabhupāda: I do not remember. What is the letter?
Govinda dāsī: You wrote a letter . . .
Prabhupāda: I told him, "Let us sing. Let us chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Gaurasundara: . . . (indistinct)
Govinda dāsī: You remember? It was a letter saying that "My disciples don't wear long hair, and they follow these regulative principles." You remember?
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Śyāmasundara: You remember? I think you wrote it in Surat.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Govinda dāsī: And so . . . he . . . it was nice. We distributed copies to all of the crowd. And . . . and . . . and . . .
Gaurasundara: What did he say? . . . (indistinct)
Govinda dāsī: No, he didn't say very much. He said: "Let me explain. Let me explain," or something like that. I think he was already thinking of surrendering to you. But the letter did it. Your letter did it. It was the final chop, you know, the final . . .
Gaurasundara: Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa said he had it planned for many months, but there was too much wrong . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No, they can . . . (indistinct) . . . back. He can join.
Gaurasundara: (aside) You’re leaving at seven?
Prabhupāda: So preaching means read our books; follow this. Reference immediately you should give, reference, where it is. Why you are asking me, when . . . (indistinct) . . . what I am doing alone, now you have to do twelve times; then it will spread. Then each one takes another twelve. Then there will be no space for these rascals to flourish. We have got our books now. Print and distribute and preach, and bring the sunlight and the cockroaches will go away. (laughs) (laughter) They cannot do any more any infection. In the sunlight there is no insects, no cockroaches. In the darkness there is glowworms. Have you seen glowworms? You have seen? "Oh, there is light? What is that light?"
Govinda dāsī: (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Glowworms. So their light like that. The small . . . (indistinct) . . . glowworms, bring sunlight, then they will automatically go away. Kṛṣṇa—sūrya-sama; māyā haya andhakāra (CC Madhya 22.31).
What is the English translation?
Gaurasundara: "Kṛṣṇa is sunlight, and māyā is darkness."
Prabhupāda: That’s all. Bring sunlight, and the darkness will automatically go.
(devotees pay obeisances) (break) (end)
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