720803 - Lecture SB 05.05.01 - London

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



720803SB-LONDON - August 03, 1971 - 53:39 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye
tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ
śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam
(SB 5.5.1)

Many millions of years ago, King Ṛṣabhadeva... He was incarnation of God. Before His retirement He instructed His sons. He had one hundred sons. The eldest one was Bharata, and under..., after his name, this planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Bhārata-varṣa at the present moment, what we understand, that small piece of land, India, Bhārata-varṣa does not mean that piece of land. Bhārata-varṣa means this whole planet.

So before that, before Emperor Bharata, this planet was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa, and after the reign of Mahārāja Bharata this planet is known as Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, the Vedic culture being forgotten, the whole planet is now divided. The seven islands, as already existing, they are mentioned in the Vedic literature also, sapta-dvīpa: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Australia, and the Archipelago (Arctic level?). In this way this whole world is divided into seven lands, islands.

So Mahārāja Pṛthu..., er, Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva, before retirement... Formerly, even one is king, he was to take leave of householder affairs. The Vedic culture means that the social order and the spiritual order of life. The social order of life is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā: cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and according to work, the social order is divided into four.

The most intelligent class of men are called the brāhmaṇas, and the next intelligent class of men, namely the politicians, or one who wants to take part in administration, they are called kṣatriyas. And the next intelligent class of men, those who are busy in production—because we want food—so the productive class of men is called vaiśya, mercantile.

And the laborer class of men, namely one who is neither intelligent nor administrator nor trader, but wants to live at the shelter of somebody, master, they are called śūdras. The brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they would never accept subordination, service, under anyone. But the śūdras, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). By nature, a śūdra wants to take shelter of somebody else and live.

So at the present moment, the Kali-yuga, the śāstra says, almost everyone is a śūdra because nobody can live independently. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Kalau means in this age, this iron age, almost everyone is a śūdra. It is very difficult to find out really brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. Vaiśyas maybe there are, but mostly śūdras. Because the other three orders of life are missing, therefore at the present moment there is no peace. In every step there is fight, there is quarrel. Kali means disagreement and quarrel.

So this age is called Kali-yuga. This Kali-yuga has begun since the Battle of Kurukṣetra. You have heard in Mahābhārata or in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is within Mahābhārata. The Battle of Kurukṣetra between the two section of cousin-brothers, the Kauravas and the Pāṇḍavas, took place under the guidance of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago. And in that battlefield, Kṛṣṇa instructed Arjuna, His friend, the great book of knowledge, Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā.

So human life must be divided into four orders, varṇāśrama-dharma. In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said,

varṇāśramācāravatā
puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān
viṣṇur ārādhyate panthā
nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
(CC Madhya 8.58)

The aim of human life is to understand God. That is the main business of human life. Main... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Viṣṇu is the Supreme Lord, Supreme Personality of Godhead. People, they do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. The ultimate goal of life is to understand the Lord, the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu means "all-pervading God."

God is not localized. God is all-pervading. Just like it is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā,

eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ
yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ
aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.35)

God...

(aside:) That child is disturbing.

One plenary portion of the Supreme Lord. The Lord... That is also described:

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.33)

So God has innumerable expansions. By His one expansion, eko 'py asau racayitum, one expansion, Mahā-Viṣṇu, is responsible for the cosmic manifestation. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim (Bs. 5.35). Innumerable universes. The universe which we see generally, up to the sky cover, a round sky, this is only one universe. And there are innumerable universes. Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Koṭi means one hundred thousand multiplied by another hundred. So innumerable. And all the jagad-aṇḍas, or brahmāṇḍas, or universes, taken together is called the material world.

The material world does not mean this tiny planet. This tiny planet on which we are living, it is very, very insignificant. There are millions of planets within this universe, and this is one out of many. So similarly, there are millions of universes. So within all the universes, all these planets, there are living entities. We cannot understand why there is no living entity on the moon planet. According to our Vedic literature, the moon planet is one of the heavenly planets. So there is (indistinct) description that every planet has various types of living entities. Even in the sun planet there are living entities.

So this planet—we are talking of this planet—this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa. And Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva was the emperor of this planet. Before retirement, He instructed His children, His one hundred sons, "My dear boys, this human form of life," na ayaṁ deha, "this body..." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke (SB 5.5.1). Deha-bhājām means there are other living entities also. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of them, only 400,000 forms of bodies are human beings.

Out of the 400,000 species of human beings, mostly they are uncivilized. And out of them, a very few men are civilized. And out of many civilized persons, a very few know what is Vedic knowledge. And out of many persons who know Vedic knowledge, they do not act according to the Vedic instructions. And out of many such persons, there are very few persons who act accordingly to the Vedic instruction.

And those who act, they are attached to karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra, fruitive activities. Just like perform yajñas and be elevated to the heavenly planets. These are called karma-kāṇḍīya-vicāra. Out of many thousands of these persons who are attached to karma-kāṇḍīya chapter of Vedas, one, somebody may be jñānī. Jñānī means "one who knows," "one who is in perfect knowledge." Not perfect knowledge, but searching after knowledge, jñānī. And out of many thousands of jñānīs, one is mukta. Mukta means liberated, liberated from material body. And out of many thousands of muktas, there is very difficult to find out a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you analyze, it is very difficult to find out a person who is really... The Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

"Out of many millions of men," manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu, kaścid vetti..., kaścid yatati siddhaye. Generally, people are busy how to earn money, how to get money and satisfy senses. That's all. That is their end of life: Get money. Somehow or other, get money and expend for sense gratification. In America I have heard that people—they have got money—they spend fifty thousand dollars weekly for seeing naked dance. You see? So money is being misused in this way. Everyone wants sense gratification. And for sense gratification, they want money. And they are earning money somehow or other and applying that in sense gratification. But the result is confusion and frustration. That's all. Result is confusion and frustration. Therefore this is not new thing.

Now in this age, Kali-yuga, this system of civilization is very much prominent. But in the material world, that is going on time..., from time immemorial. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva is advising His sons, "My dear sons," ayaṁ deha. Na ayaṁ deha: "This body, this human form of body," deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke, "those who have taken, accepted this material body in this human society," nṛloke, kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate...

Sense gratification is needed because we have got this body. So that is not denied. But He says that kaṣṭān kāmān na arhate: "For sense gratification, there is no need of working very hard." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of labor, hard labor, day and night, and get some money, and then apply it for sense gratification, kaṣṭān kāmān... Kāma means sense gratification.

So this is not very good. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Human form of life is not meant for this purpose. This type of working hard day and night to find out the necessities of life, that is the business of the hog. Hog. Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means "the animal who eats stool." That means hog. Or the animal who has no discrimination of eating. He's called hog. The hogs have no discrimination. He'll eat anything, up to the stool.

So if you think that "We have to accept food," well, even stool is also food for a certain type of animals. And by eating that stool, it becomes very much fatty. And their sense power is so strong that daily, at least one dozen times, they are having sexual intercourse. And there is no discrimination whether it is mother or sister or any daughter. It doesn't matter. You'll find in hog's life, they have no discrimination.

So Ṛṣabhadeva is warning, "My dear boys, this life, this human form of life, is not meant for gratifying the senses like the hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. Then what it is meant? What for? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā. This life is meant for tapasya, austerity. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā. Why? Why we should accept austerity, penance? So He says that tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet (SB 5.5.1). Sattvam, your existence. You are existing. Now your existence is not pure because we, all living entities, we are eternal soul, spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The soul is never annihilated or destroyed after the annihilation of this body.

Now, throughout the whole world we are traveling. There is not a single institution, neither any department of knowledge in the university, to understand that "After destruction of this body I am not destroyed; I exist." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. Hanyamāne śarīre. After destruction of the body, the soul is not destroyed. Ajo nityaḥ śāśvato yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Aja. The soul never takes birth; the body changes.

Just like I am soul, you are soul; we have changed so many bodies. I had a body, a small baby's body. That body is no longer existing. Everyone has seen... Where is that body? I possessed a small baby's body. Where is that body? That is gone. Then I possessed a boy's body. That body is also gone. Then I possessed a young man's body; that is also gone. Now I am possessing one old man's body, seventy-six years old. But I understand that I had a small body like this. I had a body like a boy, like a child, then young man. Therefore the conclusion should be that I, as I have passed so many bodies, similarly, when I shall pass this body, I shall exist. This is conclusion.

Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Dhīra, one who is cool-headed. Not a passionate, crazy fellow, but cool-headed. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. He can understand that as one passes through different bodies—baby's to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, then old age—similarly, this body, when it will be no more existing, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), the body may be destroyed, but the soul will continue to exist. This is the Vedic principle of knowledge.

This is called spiritual knowledge. Spiritual knowledge does not mean anything else. To understand the spiritual, constitutional position of the living entity, that is called spiritual. And at the present moment, by constitution, my position is that I never die or I never take birth. But because I have accepted this material body, therefore I have to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like we change our garments. I am putting on this garment. When it is old or not usable, I give it up; I accept another coat or shirt. Similarly, we have got coat and shirt over our position as soul. The shirt is the subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. And the gross coat is made of five elements: earth, water, fire, air, sky. In these two coverings, I, the soul, I am existing.

But Ṛṣabhadeva says that tapo divyaṁ putrakā, "My dear boys, in order to get out of this diseased condition of life, kindly accept austerity." Just like when a man is diseased, the doctor says that "You cannot accept this. You cannot eat like this. You cannot go like this." So many "don'ts." Similarly, tapasya means "Don't. You do not do this." Because as living entity with animal propensities, the animal cannot accept "don'ts." If a tiger is requested, "My dear Mr. Tiger, don't eat meat," (laughter) he cannot accept it, because it is animal. But if a human being is trained up in these "do's" and "don'ts," he can accept. That is human life. And when, in spite of his difficulty, he has..., he accepts something by the order of the śāstra, by the order of the guru, that is called tapasya.

Just like we are instructing our students, "My dear boys, do not have illicit sex life; do not eat meat, fish, eggs; do not indulge in intoxication, up to drinking tea and smoking; and do not indulge in gambling." Of course, it is very difficult, especially in the Western countries. Not now; some, about thirty years ago, in this city of London, one of my Godbrothers came to preach, and he met Lord Zetland. So Lord Zetland asked this Swāmījī whether he can be turned into a brāhmaṇa. The Swāmījī replied, "Yes, you can become a brāhmaṇa." "How?" "Now, you have to give up these four things: no illicit sex life, no meat-eating, fish-eating, no gambling, no intoxication." He said, "It is impossible." He replied, "Impossible."

So actually, in the Western countries, these things are ordinary things, so they do not take it as any bad thing or any sinful. But according to Vedic śāstra, these four principles are the basic principles or the four pillars of sinful life. Striya-sūnā-pāna-dyūta yatra pāpaś catur-vidhā (SB 1.17.38).

So the real purpose of life, as it is advised by Ṛṣabhadeva, tapo divyam: "My dear boys, just accept austerity and penances for transcendental realization," divyam. Divyam means the platform where God can be understood. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). If we can understand God on the transcendental platform, not in this material platform by imagination or speculation... That is not God. One has to understand God on the transcendental platform, śuddha-sattva. Sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vasudeva-śabditam (SB 4.3.23). On the vasudeva platform we can understand Vāsudeva. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya.

So here it is advised: tapo divyam. The whole business is... Everyone is hankering after happiness. That's a fact. The karmīs, the ordinary workers, fruitive workers... Just like big, big city, they are whole day and night the motorcars going this way and that way, this way and that way, whoosh, woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh, woosh... Why? For finding out, "Where is happiness? Where is happiness? Where is happiness?" Happiness. But happiness we are not receiving, because in this contaminated world happiness is not possible; therefore we have to get out of this body, material body. Then there will be happiness.

In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriya-grāhyam (BG 6.21). What is real happiness, that will be realized when you are on the transcendental sense gratification. At the present moment we are on the material sense gratification. So material sense gratification will not give us real happiness. Everyone is trying to get happiness; so therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your exis... First of all, purify your existence; then talk of happiness.

Happiness, if you want to enjoy happiness which is covered... material covering, you'll never find happiness. And that is actually experience of everyone. If you say that "Yes, I am enjoying this. I am enjoying this life very nicely. I don't require to give up this material body." No. It is foolishness. You are not enjoying. You may think so, but the real problem is there. What is that? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).

You may enjoy very nicely because you are Englishman or American, you have got money, but what about the question of death? Do you enjoy death? If a body is... Of course, one who is frustrated, one who wants to commit suicide, that is a different thing. For a sane man, does he enjoy birth, death, old age and disease? Therefore Bhagavad-gītā points out that you may feel very happy with your so-called material senses, but you should see to the real problem of life, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: birth, death, old age and disease.

So therefore, actual happiness is there when we surpass this process of repetition of birth and death, old age and disease. Because we are spirit soul. As God is spirit soul, we are also spirit soul. About God it is stated that,

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
(Bs. 5.33)

Purāṇa-puruṣa means the oldest living entity, but still, He's nava-yauvana, young. Just like Kṛṣṇa. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. You'll find Him always a young boy, from sixteen to twenty years old. You have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā. We have got the picture, Arjuna. Kṛṣṇa had at that time great-grandsons, but you see His picture just like a boy, young boy, very nice.

So the spirit is never old. Never old. Always young. You'll find, those who are studying the Vedic literatures, that in the Vaikuṇṭhalokas the inhabitants are always young, exactly like God. God is always young, fifteen to twenty years old, just like boy. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that "You are wanting happiness..." And happiness... Death does not mean happiness, disease does not mean happiness, birth does not mean happiness, old age does not mean happiness. So when you are happy? If you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease, then where is your happiness?

That is called illusion, māyā. Actual happiness is not there. Therefore Vedic literature informs: ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29). The yogīs, they enjoy happiness unlimitedly. There is no end. Here in this material world you may enjoy anything, but it will have its end after a few minutes. That's all. You cannot enjoy perpetually. That is not possible. Therefore... But we are hankering after perpetual happiness, continued happiness. So Ṛṣabhadeva advised, "My dear boys, you take to austerity." Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). "After you are purified, then brahma-saukhyam anantam, then you get unlimited happiness."

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the whole human society the direction how he can enjoy unlimitedly. Yena śuddhyet sattvam. Ramante yoginaḥ anante. Really, those who are yogīs, they enjoy. These Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, people, they are also yogīs, bhakti-yogīs. They are the best of the yogīs. As we see in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the chapter in which sāṅkhya-yoga has been explained, the conclusion is, yoginām api sarveṣām (BG 6.47): "Of all the yogīs...," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā, "one who is thinking within himself about Me, Kṛṣṇa," mad-gaten... śraddhāvān, "with faith and love," bhajate mām, "engaged in My devotional service," sa me yuktatamo mataḥ, "he is the first-class yogī." He is the first-class yogī.

So we are preaching in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, "Everyone should become a first-class yogī. And when one becomes a first-class yogī, perfect yogī, then ramante yoginaḥ anante, then they enjoy eternal, blissful life of knowledge. Ramante yoginaḥ satyānande, that is real happiness, satyānande. In this material world it is mithyānande. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagan mithyā. The material world, wherein you are trying to find out happiness, that is false, illusion. If you want real happiness, that is in the spiritual world.

That is the verdict of Vedas. Tamasi mā jyotir gama (Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1.3.28). Don't try to be happy in this darkness. But real happiness is in the light, jyotir gama. Light. The spiritual world is light. The material world is dark. It is... Because this material world is dark, therefore we require sunlight, moonlight, electricity and so many things. In the spiritual world there is no need of this sunlight, moonlight or electricity. Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ (BG 15.6). There is no need of sun, moon or electricity. These are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

So therefore, this human form of life, as it is advised by Ṛṣabhadeva, is not meant for unnecessary sense gratification. This is not meant for. This is meant for the hogs and dogs, not for the human beings. This is division of life. The human life is to make a solution of all the problems of life. The real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. All other problems, they are secondary. So you can conquer over this birth and death and old age and disease. There is possibility. Here is a chance of human form of life. Here you take a chance. Don't lose it, don't spoil it like hogs and dogs. That is the propaganda of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Don't take it that it is a type of sectarian religion. No. It is a culture. It is meant for every human being. Therefore we are trying to propagate this movement all over the world, without any consideration of caste, creed and nation. Because we don't see, "This is Englishman," "This is European," "This is American." No. We have no such vision. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is really learned, he sees everyone on the equal level: soul, spirit soul.

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

One who is paṇḍita, he'll see equally a learned brāhmaṇa and a dog. Why? Because he knows, "Here is a brāhmaṇa and here is a dog. But a dog, by his karma, by his work, he has accepted this dog's body, and the brāhmaṇa has accepted by his karma the brāhmaṇa's body. The king has accepted a king's body. But these are..." Just like we are sitting here. We are not studying what kind of dress you have got. Now, you are also not studying what kind of dress I have got. We are concerned with philosophy, with knowledge. Similarly, we are not concerned whether you are American or Englishman or African or this or that, a cat or dog. We want to give you Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because everyone is conscious.

So that consciousness has to be changed. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become clear. Clear. First that clearing. So sarva-upādhi-vinirmuktam, upādhi. We have got these designations, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am Hindu." These are all designations. So we have to become free from these designations, come to the spiritual platform. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmalam means without (indistinct). Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170).

When you come to that purest form of spirit soul, you don't think that your indriyas, or senses, are lost. No. Senses are there. At that time, if you enjoy your senses in cooperation with the Supreme, that is called bhakti, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is not very difficult to become free from all designations. It is not very difficult. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us very simple method, supported by Vedic injunction. What is that? Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam.

ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ
sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam
(CC Antya 20.12, Śikṣāṣṭaka 1)

If you kindly take this simple process—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare—then you'll be purified gradually. You go on chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra; then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, the dirty things which are there within our heart, it will be cleansed. And as soon as we are clean... Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Just like if you want to see your face, how nice is your face, if you take a mirror and if it is covered with dirt, you cannot see. You just cleanse the dust covering on the mirror and you can see your beautiful face. Therefore it is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. Darpaṇa means mirror.

So it requires little cleansing. And that cleansing process is so simple, that simply by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it will be clean. Then you will understand what is your real position, what..., how beautiful is your face. That is called self-realization, ātma-jñāna. Ātma-jñāna.

So unless one will come to the platform of self-realization, we are in the trouble, so long we are not self-realized. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam (SB 5.5.5). Without self-realization, whatever we are acting, we are piling up the stones and woods and iron in such skyscraper building. So we may do that, but it is our defeat. It is not conquering; it is defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. If we don't inquire about ourself, "What I am? Why I am put into this miserable condition of life, birth, death, old age, and there are so many other things." Unless you come to question why, your human life is not perfect.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is universal. It is meant for everyone, and the process is very simple. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. But if you think that "I am not satisfied by..., for accepting this simple process. I must go through science, philosophy, logic," yes, we have got dozens of books, four hundred pages each, at least. We have got twelve books. You can read them. Go through science, philosophy, logic, sociology, politics, anything. You will understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

Thank you very much. (obeisances) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...just like you are being incarnated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthhood body—this is reincarnation. There is no question of believing; it is a fact. If you do not know it, it is ignorance. But it is a fact.

English boy: I'm Christian, and lots of what you just said is completely disputed in the Bible. I'd like you to tell me, please, and tell the other people here about how the word "God," as defined in the Holy Bible, of which I, as a personal Christian, hold very sacred.

I have witnessed here today more or less blasphemy against God, and you claim to come from God and... Or your disciples claim you come from God. And I'd like you to sort of classify your distinction of God and my distinction of God, please.

Revatīnandana:

nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine

So my spiritual master has requested that I answer this question. We are functioning in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement on the basis of the Vedic literature, Vedic scriptures. Amongst these Vedic scriptures, we consider the Bible to be one. Lord Jesus Christ is teaching in the Bible that "You love first God with your whole heart and soul, and then you love your neighbor as yourself."

My spiritual master is teaching that we are all part and parcel of God, and as part and parcel of God, our business is to render loving service to the Supreme Lord. You say that you are living love of God. But God says then you will love your neighbor as yourself.

English boy: I do that.

Revatīnandana: If you love your neighbor as yourself, then why this civilization, which claims to be Christian, is slaughtering so many animals, and why they are constantly slaughtering each other in wars, in the streets, killing, killing, killing? Jesus says you will not kill: "Thou shalt not kill," and you are killing: killing the animals, killing each other. This civilization is of dogs and cats fighting and killing, and my spiritual master is giving love of God, he is giving love of God to the world.

And you can develop so simply. You just hallow the name of the Lord. Jesus says, "Hallowed be thy name, my Father." And we are hallowing the name of the Lord. We don't even demand you say "Kṛṣṇa." You can say "Jehovah." You can say "Yahweh." You can chant the names of God. You can purify your heart and develop love of God, and then you will stop killing and slaughtering each other.

That's enough. Now we'll chant Har... (break) (end)