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680507 - Lecture - Boston

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

680507LE-BOSTON - May 07, 1968


Prabhupāda: So actually, everyone is trying to live. Nobody wants to die. Why this psychological desire is there? I want to live. That, that means that he is eternal; therefore he wants to live. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit (BG 2.20). That soul existing within this body, or "I," "I am eternal." So we . . . I am struggling now with this body. This body's temporary. I am changing different bodies. Just like in my this present life also I have changed so many bodies. So there is no difficulty to understand this philosophy that "I am changing bodies every moment. But I am the same, eternal. Similarly, after changing this body, I shall have another body."

That is very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

"As the living spark, the soul, is changing from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age . . ." This is a fact. Everyone knows. Similarly, to change to another body is a fact. And dhīras tatra na muhyati: "Any intelligent man is not surprised." He doesn't say that there is no life after death. There is. Now, that life after death may be in one of the so many, 8,400,000's of bodies. There is no guarantee what kind of a body you are going to get. In our last meeting we explained that from Bhagavad-gītā that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). Ante, at the time of death, as his mental position is there, he gets the, another body, similar. There are many historical references.

As I told you the other day, that King Bhārata, he was very much elevated and very great soul. At twenty-four years of age he was emperor of the world, but at the very young time he gave up his wife, children and kingdom and went to the forest for spiritual enlightenment. And he was making progress. Unfortunately, one day he saw that a deer cub was in helpless condition. Its mother came to drink water from the river, and there was a roaring of lion, and she begot the calf and fled away—after all, she's animal.

So Bhārata Mahārāja took compassion on the little just-born calf, "Oh, it will die. Let me take care." So he was taking care. One evening that calf did not come back. So he was anxious where it was gone, and so he went to the forest, and while he was on the up, hill, he slipped from the hill and fell down and died. And at that time, his mind was absorbed in the thought of that calf. So next body, he got a deer. Yes. So Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this.

So we have to prepare our mind in such a way that we should always think of Kṛṣṇa. Then that is meditation, real meditation. And practical. There is no use thinking of something void. That you cannot concentrate. That is not practical. You can simply struggle for it and waste your time. But if you have got something tangible to meditate, that is very easy. So why not Kṛṣṇa? So nice, beautiful, and He's accepted the Supreme Personality of Godhead by great sages, saintly persons, scholars and Vedic literature. And they have achieved success. Why not follow their example and simply concentrate your mind, meditate on mind?

And that meditation is very nicely done by chanting. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, your ear is forced to receive this Kṛṣṇa. And the Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent. This is the philosophy. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa sound . . . because Kṛṣṇa is everything, God is everything, so why not this sound, "Kṛṣṇa," which is approved? So by chanting Kṛṣṇa, you receive Kṛṣṇa in transcendental vibration immediately, and your meditation is there because your attention is diverted to Kṛṣṇa. So your attention, your mind and the word and the authority—everything is there. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take . . . feel practically how it is working. There is no charge. There is no exertion. It is very easy. Kartum . . . su-sukhaṁ kartum avyayam (BG 9.2).

This process of meditation is easy, happy and indestructible. There are so many instances from śāstras. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ, abhinnatv an nāma-nāminoḥ (CC Madhya 17.133). There is the spiritual platform, everything identical. Just like you get some thousand miles away in the radio: this sound and the person who is transmitting the sound is identical, although materially we cannot derive the same benefit. That is the difference between material sound and spiritual sound. The spiritual sound, there is no such difference. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ. So it is a fact that by sound vibration, Kṛṣṇa, you immediately contact Kṛṣṇa.

So if there is any spiritual benefit by contacting Kṛṣṇa or be in touch in Kṛṣṇa . . . just like if you be in contact with fire you get warm, similarly, by contact with Kṛṣṇa you immediately get spiritual warmth. That is the technique of this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is being experienced by the students, those who are sincerely doing it without any offense.

So this is the simplest method, and Lord Caitanya therefore recommended, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā (CC Adi 17.21). In this . . . in this age . . . this age is called Kali. Kali means the age of disagreement. Nobody agrees. Nobody agrees. I don't agree with you; you don't agree with me. I quarrel with you, you quarrel with me. Everyone thinks that he is independent, he is God or he is everything. But he is dependent in every step. But still, he's proud of becoming God. So these nonsense things are going on. Of course, this is a process of spiritual understanding, ekatvena bahudhā pṛthaktvena bahudhā viśvato-mukham (BG 9.15).

That "I am God," whether "I" means this body or "I" means this mind, or there is something "I" else than this body and mind. Therefore meditation required. Accepting that you are God, now find out "I." Now what is that "I"? Is that "I" this body or this, that "I" the mind, or is that "I" the intelligence? So meditation means to find out that "I" who's claiming that "I am God."

So if you identify yourself with this body, then there is no need of meditation, because body, you are actually seeing—this is body. No meditation means that you have to transcend the bodily platform, the mental platform, the intellectual platform. Then you find out what is the "I." That is meditation. But fortunately we get information directly. Instead of searching out what you are, what is your position, what is this "I," you get direct information from Kṛṣṇa. What is that? Kṛṣṇa says that "All these living entities, they are My part and parcel."

So as part and parcel, you may claim as God. How is that? Just like this whole body. Now, the finger, which is the part and parcel of this body, can be said also "body." But the finger is not the whole body. A finger, if it claims that "I am the whole body," then it is wrong conception. But if the finger claims that "I am body," there is no wrong. Finger is . . . because it is part and parcel of bo . . . this body, whole body, therefore it is also body. Just like part and parcel of gold is also gold—it is not different from gold—similarly, I, individual I, I am the part and parcel of the Supreme "I," Kṛṣṇa. That is the real philosophy.

And as soon as you understand that you are part and parcel of the Supreme, then your function is also immediately fixed up. What is that? Now, this part and parcel of this body is the finger, or anything you take. What is the duty of this finger? The duty of the finger is to serve the whole body. That's all. It has no independent existence. The . . . a finger, if it noncooperates with this body to work for the body, then it is to be understood that the finger is in diseased condition.

Suppose if I have got some pain. I want my finger to work in some part of my body like this, and if it cannot, that means it is in diseased condition. If there is some pain, you are feeling not to work the finger. Similarly, our position, being part and parcel of the Supreme, our function is to serve the Supreme. If we do not serve the Supreme, then it is our diseased condition, which is called māyā. Māyā means which is not actual fact. Mā-yā. Mā means "not"; means "this."

So, so we are thinking at the present moment that, "I am God. I am independent." That is māyā. Māyā means which is not actual fact. Plain philosophy. If you are God, then you must know what is God. God is never dependent. That is the definition given in Vedānta-sūtra: svarāṭ. Svarāṭ means fully independent. That is one of the quality of God. Janmādyasya yataḥ 'nvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ means fully independent and fully conscious. So your consciousness is not full. Your independence is not full. That you cannot have. Now you belong to a independent country, but you are not fully independent. As soon as the state laws want you for some particular purpose, in spite of your unwillingness, you have to act. That means you are not fully independent, even in the state relationship. And how you are fully independent in God's relationship?

So your claim that "I am God" is not fulfilled there, because God is independent—you are not independent. How you can claim that you are God? Can you answer this question? Because in your school it is taught that "I am God." I say God is fully independent. Are you fully independent? Then how can you claim you are God? Can anyone answer this? Because this philosophy is going on.

Everyone is thinking, "I am God." So if you are not fully independent, you are, if you are not fully conscious, everything, you are simply a minute part. Minute part means because you are part and parcel of the Supreme. So everything is there in you in minute parts but not in full. Just like the definition of God as it is given in the Vedic literature:

aiśvaryasya samagrasya
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
jñāna-vairāgyayoś ca
ṣaḍ iti bhagaṁ ganaḥ
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

Bhaga. The exact Sanskrit word of the Absolute Truth, or the Personality of Godhead, is called Bhagavān. Bhaga means six kinds of opulences. What is that? Aiśvarya, wealth. Aiśvaryasya samagrasya. Vīryasya. Vīryasya means strength. Wealth, strength and yaśaḥ. Yaśaḥ means fame. Aiś . . . wealth, strength, fame and śrī. Śrī means beauty. And jñāna. Jñāna means knowledge. And vairāgya means renunciation. Wealth, fame, then strength, beauty, and knowledge and renunciation. If these six things are in full present in anyone, He is God. Otherwise, he's a dog, or less than God.

And in the Vedic literature we find the definition: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8). Now, are we in that position that we have nothing to do? Oh, if you do not work, I cannot eat even. The whole function is stopped. But the definition is na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Now, take for example this beautiful flower. This beautiful flower, you have to accept there is a great brain behind this beauty. Because here we have got so many artists. When they draw picture, oh, how nicely they apply their brain, their painting, everything, then . . . but that beauty is not as beautiful as this flower. If ordinary beauty painted by a, an artist, it takes so much time and labor, do you think that this beauty is done automatically? What is the explanation?

This is nonsense, that there is no brain behind it. There is. That is the brain of God. That is explained: na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate. Although it is so beautifully done, but He has nothing to do. How? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śruyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, CC Madhya 13.65, purport). His energy is so powerful that svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca: everything is coming out as natural product, energy.

Just like so many things happening in your body. The hair is growing. Can you explain how the hair is growing? You do not know even in your body how things are taking place. But there is energy. It is accepted that there is energy in your body which is helping to grow so many things in your body. So if you have got so much energy that things are taking automatically, just imagine how much energy He has got.

So these are explained in the Vedic literature. Na tasya kāryaṁ kāraṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate: "He has nothing to do, and nobody is equal or greater than Him." Therefore God is great. Nobody can be equal. You cannot claim that you are God. Then you claim "God," I claim "God," he, she claims "God," he claims "God." Then what is the meaning of "God"? Nobody . . . God is great. Nobody can be greater than Him. Then how you can claim that you are God, I am God? Then either you do not know what is the definition of God or you are foolishly claiming that you are God.

You must . . . if you claim, if you come here and introduce yourself, "I am President Johnson," oh, you must present your credential that you are President Johnson. Otherwise, we shall say you are crazy. So if you cannot present yourself even like ordinary president, you are claiming that you're God, how much nonsense you are. Don't claim in that way. There is no equal to God. Oh, there are so many equals to you, so many greater than you, lower than you. So you are not absolute. God is absolute.

In the Bhagavad-gītā the same thing is described, that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "My dear Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, nobody's greater than Me." Anyat. Anyat means anyone. So this is the one of the symptoms of God, that nobody is greater than Him. So you have to prove that nobody's greater than you. If you simply think falsely that "Nobody's greater than me. Nobody's . . . I am moving this sun. I am moving this moon. I am . . ." so you have to prove it. Otherwise, it is nonsense.

But if you remain in your actual position that, "I am not God, but I am part and parcel of God, and God is nondifferent . . ." Just like the part and parcel of your body, this finger, and the whole body . . . if you make analytical study: "Oh, there is blood, there is vein, there is muscle, there is skin, there is bone, everything complete," as much as there is blood, vein, muscle, bones, everything in the whole body, so, as part and parcel, the, all the qualities, or all the ingredients of God are there. But he is a small quantity, therefore part and parcel. But even it is small quantity, if you actually come to the platform of God, then you'll become almost equal like God.

But you cannot be God. That is not possible. Then there is no meaning of God, because God is great. And in the Vedic literature it is confirmed that na tasya kāryaṁ ca vidyate na tasya sama adhikaś ca dṛśyate: "Nobody's greater than Him, nobody's equal to Him. He, He has nothing to do. Everything is being performed by His multi-energies."

So these descriptions are there. So you have to . . . Vedic knowledge means the knowledge of authority. So you have to prove. But there is a process for understanding God, that "I am God." That is a process. But not that one is God. "I am God" means in that way, "Qualitatively, I am God." So we have to find out, meditation, "What is that quality?" That quality is the spirit soul, on account of whose presence the whole body is working. As soon as the spirit soul is absent from this body, this body has no more any value. That you have to understand. And what is that spirit soul? That you have to find out, where it is.

Where is the spirit soul . . . now, if you medically analyze where is the spirit soul, you cannot find out. But there, in the yoga process, there are different rules and regulations, sitting posture and then breathing exercise, controlling the air passing through this body. In that way, gradually you come to know what is that . . . not only you come to know, but the perfection of yoga system is that you can practice to take the soul from six different position, from the navel position to the heart, then to the, it is called, what is called?

Jadurāṇī: Throat.

Prabhupāda: Neck. Yes, kantha. Then you can bring it between the brows, and when you are sufficiently practiced, you can transfer your soul from the top of your brain to any planet you like. That is the perfection of yoga. That is not possible nowadays. Nobody can practice. Real perfection of yoga is not possible in this age. That breathing exercise, the sitting posture, following the rules and regulations . . . nobody's following the rules and regulation, what to speak of the sitting posture. That is a process, recommended process. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā also, and in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. But that process is not possible at the present days.

But if you want spiritual perfection at the present age, then this is the recommended process by Caitanya Mahāprabhu:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
(CC Adi 17.21)

Anyathā means other process. Anyathā. Because we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, it does not mean that we are condemning other process. No. The other process is there in the scriptures and authoritative scriptures. But other process is not possible to be practiced in this age. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kalau, "In this age," nāsty eva nāsty eva, "it is . . . there is no possibility to practice other process."

Nāsty eva nāsty eva, three times. Just like if I say three times, "It is not possible, not possible, not possible," that means to confirm it, three times. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva: "It is not possible, not possible, not possible." Gatir anyathā: "There is no other alternative." If you are at all seriously, I mean to say, interested for spiritual salvation, then this is the process. This is the process.

Now, so far this process is concerned, we have got many students. Now you can talk with them and you can see practically how they have advanced by practicing this simple process. At least they are pure in their habit and they are confident about their progress. There are so many things.

So we have to follow the prescribed process. There are different processes mentioned in the Vedic literature that, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu (SB 12.3.52). Kṛte means in the Satya-yuga. There is no English translation, what is called Satya-yuga, but people have got imagination, "Golden Age," or something like that. Satya-yuga. Satya-yuga means cent per cent people are pure. And Tretā-yuga means seventy-five percent people are pure and twenty-five percent impure. And Dvāpara-yuga means half and half—half pure, half impure. And Kali-yuga means almost impure. Impure. Ninety-nine percent impure. This is Kali-yuga.

So for spiritual salvation, for transcendental realization, it is said when . . . kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu (SB 12.3.52). When people were cent per cent pure, at that time, the process of meditation was successful, because this meditation requires fully purification of the body. Otherwise, simply closing your eyes, if you meditate and sleep . . . I've seen, practically. They are meditating (snores). I have seen. Perhaps you have also seen. Yes. Because it is naturally. If you close your eyes and you have nothing to do, oh, naturally you'll be . . . feel sleepy. And you'll feel sleepy and go on. You see? So this is not possible. Therefore śāstra says, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu. The meditation of Viṣṇu was possible in the Golden Age, when everyone, cent per cent, people were pure.

Then next age, tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ. Makhaiḥ means sacrifice, performing great sacrifices. Sacrifice means, if you want to perform sacri . . . you require hundreds of mounds of butter and so much grain, so many things that you cannot provide at the present moment. Nobody can provide. So that is also not possible. Yajato makhaiḥ. Makhaiḥ means sacrifices, great sacrifices. And dvāpare paricaryāyām. The next stage, by temple worship or church worship. That is also not possible. Nobody is interested in this age to go to the temple or to the church, or they are not satisfied with the management of the temples or the church. So many things. Anyway, this has become practically impossible to get any enlightenment.

So dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. Therefore in this age of disagreement and quarrel, this is the best process. Never mind whatever you are. It doesn't require any prequalification. Simply you sit down. You sit down together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You see? Very practical. You haven't got to sit in a particular position or fashion, āsana. You haven't got to exercise your breathing process. Nothing. Simply you sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that we have read just now, a practical experience of one reporter, and there are students. They have got practical . . . simply by chanting you get the highest ecstasy.

So it is said in the Bhāgavata:

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu
tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ
dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ
kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt
(SB 12.3.52)

This is hari-kīrtana. This is the process. So we have to . . . there are many, many things in the drug shop, but you have to accept a medicine out of thousands of medicines which is described by the physician. Your physician gives you note that, "You get this medicine from the drug shop and you'll be cured." Similarly, there may be different processes for self-realization, but at the present, this is the only prescribed method for self-realization.

If you do not accept it, then you'll be misled. Just like if you say to a drug shop, "The doctor has asked me to take some medicine. So give me any medicine," oh, the drug shop owner will say: "No, I cannot give you any medicine. You give me . . . bring the prescription of the doctor. Then I shall give you." That is real treatment.

If you actually want spiritual understanding, then you must follow the prescribed method. And you can practically feel also. In other method, you have to do so many things which are practically impossible. But if you simply imitate or do something which will never be fulfilled, then you can indulge in such waste of time. But if you actually want result, then this is the process. Kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu thrice, three times He says, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative.

This is the easiest process, and you have no loss. You haven't got to pay us anything as fees. If you pay us, it is welcome, but we don't charge anything. But to maintain the establishment, sometimes we beg from you. That is a different thing. But we don't demand that "You give me so many dollars. Then I shall teach you what is Hare Kṛṣṇa." The Hare Kṛṣṇa is there, openly written, and you can chant. You can take the advantage.

So don't falsely claim that you are God, you are everything, you are moving this world. Why? Actually are you doing that? Then why do you falsely claim like that? What is your answer? If I . . . you meditate that, "I am moving the sun. I am moving the moon. I am moving everything." Are you dong that? You do . . . cannot move yourself. You are so much dependent on the laws of nature. Why you are falsely claiming like that? What is your answer? Give me your answer, those who are thinking that "I am God." Do you think thinking, by thinking one will be God? Where is your power? Yes? You want to ask? No?

So actually it is not the position. I am God in that sense I have already analyzed, that I have got the, in minute quantity . . . as I am minute quantity, fragmental portion of God, so similarly, I have got all the qualities of God in fragment. For example, this consciousness take. That is practical. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, it is not that Kṛṣṇa has got consciousness and you haven't got consciousness. You have got also consciousness. That's a practical experience. Every one of us are conscious as God is conscious. So you are also conscious. Now, what is the difference between God's consciousness and your consciousness? That you have to find out. Can you say me? You should know all these things. Consciousness . . .

Devotee: God's consciousness is absolute, mine is not.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you are not God. God consciousness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: idaṁ śarīraṁ kṣetra (BG 13.2). The Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, says that "This body is the field of our activities." Otherwise, it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi (BG 13.3): "I am also conscious. I am also knower." As you are knower, so God is also knower. But the difference of His knowledge—that He's omnipotent, omnipresent; you are not omnipotent, omnipresent. That is the difference.

You have got some potency, and you are also present in some limited circle, but He is present everywhere. You are not present in another planet, but God is present everywhere. That is His omnipresence, omnipotent. So He's also conscious, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi: "Also know that I am also knower, but My knowledge expands everywhere, but your knowledge expands only within this body." That is the difference.

So similarly, in any capacity you analyze, so far the definition of God—wealth . . . now, He's the proprietor of all wealth. Now, nobody can claim . . . even the, I mean, the biggest rich man of your country, the Rockefeller or the Ford company or . . . nobody can claim that he's the only richest man. No. There are many others. So nobody can claim that, "I am the richest." No. Nobody can claim that "I am the most famous." No. Nobody can claim that "I am the most beautiful." Nobody can claim that, "I am the absolute knower." In this way, you apply the definition in yourself, you'll find that you partly and partially represent all the qualities of God.

That you can claim, that you are partial God, or part and parcel of . . . that is the exact word, part and . . . mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta (BG 15.7). These living entities, jīva-bhūta . . . there are two definitions of the living entities. One definition is jīva-bhūta, and another definition is brahmā bhūta. What is the jīva-bhūta? So long the living entity has got the misconception of his existence that, "I am this body," he's called jīva-bhūta. And when he is completely in knowledge that, "I am not this body," that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. The same "I": one is false identification, and another is real identification.

The real identification begins—brahma-bhūtaḥ, to know that, "I am not this matter, I am spirit soul." That is the beginning. Even in that beginning understanding that, "I am not this body, I am spirit soul," there is Brahman realization, but that Brahman realization has to be increased. That means not only realize yourself that you are Brahman, or spirit soul, but you have to engage yourself as Brahman and spirit, to work as Brahman. Then the perfection is complete.

And how to work that? So long as you are inactive, your Brahman realization is not perfect. I have several times given this example, that if a diseased man is cured, the temperature is no more coming. That is the stage of cure. But that is not perfect stage of cure. When you actually work without any fever, without any disease, that is your perfect stage. Similarly, simply by understanding theoretically that you are not this body, you are soul, that is not perfect realization. Perfect realization is to work in Brahman stage. Now, how is that working? That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
(SB 7.5.23)

That means the same thing. Just like here, in this jīva-bhūta stage, false identification stage, we are also anxious to hear something. We are reading daily in the morning some newspaper, "This . . . this thing has happened there. This thing has happened here. Here is something available." But as soon you become brahma-bhūta, you lose all interest in such nonsense things. You'll be interested to hear about Kṛṣṇa, not about the newspaper. This is called liberation. No more attraction for material engagement.

Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. Viṣṇu means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So your hearing, your chanting, your remembering, your acting—everything will be in connection with Viṣṇu. That is real Brahman realization stage, active stage.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
(SB 7.5.23)

Take . . . take the example of Arjuna. What is that? He was in the battlefield. The problem was to fight or not to fight. But so long he was not in the brahma-bhūta stage, identifying his body that, "I am this body," he was thinking the bodily relationship, "Oh, he's my father. He's my brother. He's my uncle. He's my grandfather." He was hesitant. But the same fighting remained after hearing Bhagavad-gītā. And what is the change? The change is that bodily identification gone, spiritual identification taken, that he, as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, it is his duty to serve Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. I must fight. That's all."

Similarly, brahma-bhūta stage means when you fight for Kṛṣṇa. The fighting here, in this world, nobody can remain without fighting, struggle for existence. Everyone has to fight. Daily you are fighting to exist. Utilize this fighting for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). It is not that, oh, fighting is stopped. Fighting you have to do so long you are in this material world. Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean to become lazy. You have to act practically for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everything will remain the same. But when it is done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that means you are making progress, spiritual realization. And, doing that, if you are so fortunate that always thinking of Kṛṣṇa and dying for Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful. You at once transferred to Kṛṣṇaloka. This is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So you haven't got to do anything. Simply you have to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and for Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is successful. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yat karoṣi yad juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasyasi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam (BG 9.27). Now, yat karoṣi. You have to do something. You have to work. Kṛṣṇa does not say, "Oh, because you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you, you simply . . ." If you can, simply can think of Kṛṣṇa, it is very good. But in our present position, that is not possible, because we are not so advanced that we can simply think of Kṛṣṇa. But simply think of Kṛṣṇa is automatically done if you work for Kṛṣṇa.

The same example, just like I gave you several times, that a woman who is attached with another lover, he . . . she appears to be very much engaged in the family duties, but she's always thinking of her lover, when she'll meet at night. The thinking process is going on even with the activities of her household affairs. These examples are given in Vedic literature. Similarly, if you actually love Kṛṣṇa, then, in spite of your being engaged in so many works, you can think of Kṛṣṇa, full meditation. That is possible, practical.

If you have got, I mean to say, very eager attraction for a certain thing, in spite of your acting differently, you are thinking of that. There are many examples. Suppose somebody beloved, your son, is ill at home. You have come to office to work. You are working but you are thinking, "How is the boy? How the child is there? How the child is there?" It is a question of love only.

So there are certain processes, regulative processes. If you follow those processes, then automatically you become a lover of Kṛṣṇa. Just like one process: this chanting. You go on chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll find very soon you become a lover of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the boy. Here is our Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. He says that "I was attached to drug habit, to intoxication habit, meat-eating. Now my attachment is now changed. I am now for Kṛṣṇa." So automatically he has become pure. It is so nice. Therefore I asked him to read that paper, because that is practical experience.

No more, no more they feels any inconvenience, those who have given up even smoking, tea-taking, coffee-taking, meat-eating. Because these practices are very common thing in your country. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so wonderful that for years together they are no more taking tea, coffee, smoking, meat, everything; they don't feel any inconvenience. They are happy, quite happy, in taking simple kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Similarly, in so many ways you'll be freed, and that is brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54): no more anxiety. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person, even if he does not eat for three days, he'll not feel unhappy. These are practical.

So from jīva-bhūta stage, completely dependent on the laws of nature, you gradually become free from the laws of nature. And when you are perfectly free from the laws of nature, that is called brahma-bhūta stage. Brahma-bhūta stage means self-realized stage. And, and the symptom is prasannātmā, always joyful.

An ordinary man, habituated to smoke, oh, if I ask him to don't smoke, oh, he'll feel inconvenience after half an hour. There is many chain-smoker, they feel . . . they ask permission, "Swāmījī, can I smoke?" Feeling disturbances. But these boys and girls who were habituated to smoking and everything, they have given for years but they don't feel any inconvenience. This is liberation from one point.

Two points. Second point: when he's cent per cent liberated from these material demands, then he's perfect, as good as God. But I've seen that so many, I mean to . . . students of yoga class, they cannot give up their these habits. I have seen. Neither they ask them to give up this habit. Then nobody will go. These are practical.

(pause) (phone rings, devotee answers)

Any question? If you have any doubts you can make question. We shall try to clear it.

Young woman: What is Kṛṣṇa consciousness in relation to other faiths, like, say, when you think of Kṛṣṇa and you die, in a battle for Kṛṣṇa or something? What if you believed in Jesus Christ and you died . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young woman: . . . in battle for Jesus Christ?

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can think of Jesus Christ. That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Young woman: And so then you would immediately go with . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, you go the platform where Jesus Christ is there. You go there. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

There are many platforms of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So even in this material world . . . this is a fact. If you want to go to the moon planet, oh, there is no necessity of going by some sputnik or by mechanical arrangement. You can go there simply by following the consciousness to go to the moon planet. That is there in the Vedic literature. You can immediately . . . not immediately; after . . . but you cannot go with this body—even by Sputnik. They are trying. It is not possible. It is not possible. Several times I have explained that in the moon planet the temperature is—that is scientists' explanation—two hundred degree below zero.

So with this body if you go to the moon planet, you shall immediately die. So you have to prepare yourself for getting another, suitable body with which body you can exist in the moon planet. Similarly, you can go to the Kṛṣṇa planet. But, if you go to the Kṛṣṇa planet then you haven't got to come back. Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate (BG 8.16). You can go to any planet if you desire. You can remain in this planet or you can go down also, according to your . . . this is the preparation stage. So why not utilize this life for going back to Kṛṣṇa?

Young woman: Well, I don't quite understand how you say you go to the moon planet and die. What about the space suits or living inside a spaceship on the moon. That's . . .

Prabhupāda: By spaceship you can . . . at least, at the present moment, the spaceships are not so perfect that it can go to the moon planet.

Young woman: Not at the present.

Prabhupāda: It may be in the future the spaceships are perfect and you can go to the moon planet. But even if you go to the moon planet, that is not your highest perfection, because within this material world, if you go to any planet, moon or the highest planet, Brahmaloka . . . Moon planet is very near to us. It is only few hundreds thousands miles away. But there are many planets very, very high.

The Brahmaloka, they are also described. Even in the Bhagavad-gītā From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again.there is description. So ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16).

Similarly, if you have got so much restriction in, in a ordinary state that people from other parts of the world may come but they can stay here for six months or one year, or as limited by the visa, then go back, similarly, anywhere you go within this material world, you have to come back. Ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna. You have to come back.

And besides that, any planet you go within this material world, the four principles of material sufferings are there. What are those? Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9): birth, death, old age and disease.

Everywhere there is. Your period of life may be very long, but these four things are there. You have to take your birth. Suppose you prepare yourself for going to the moon planet. Then next life, after leaving this body, you'll be pushed into the womb of a mother there in the moon planet, and you'll come out with a suitable body.

So the birth is there, and wherever there is birth and death, there is disease and old age. But I am, as spirit soul, I am free from . . . asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. I have nothing to do with birth, death and disease and old age. I am spirit soul. Na jāyate na mriyate na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇaḥ. It is always, although it is the oldest, it is always fresh. Just like I have become. Now, amongst you, I am the oldest man. You are fresh. But the propensities of you and when the . . . of me, it is the same. I want to enjoy life. The same propensities which I had in my youthful life, I've got still. But because my body has become old, I cannot enjoy like that. So it is the bodily impediments that is hampering my real happiness.

So problem is how to get out of this entanglement of repetition of taking one body after another, one body after another, as we are taking in this life also. That is the solution. That solution is yad gatvā na nivartante. Kṛṣṇa says, tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6): "If you go to My planet, you have no more (to) come back again." You get your eternal life, eternal, blissful life, full of knowledge and remain, enjoy like Kṛṣṇa with Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest perfection.

So we are giving the information of the highest perfectional stage of living entity. It is nothing bluff or artificial; it is fact, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There are volumes of books, volumes of understanding. If you have got time, read them. Just like if you want to be a scholar, there are facilities. But if you want to simply waste your time some by thinking artificially that you are God and do nothing, you can do that. You are at liberty. That will not bring any benefit. Maybe some benefit, temporarily, but real solution is there. If you believe in the Vedic scriptures, then real solution is yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūta (BG 15.7).

So everything is there. You can take advantage of these facilities. Therefore we have opened this center. You come. You try to understand and be benefited. We are not asking you that, "Give us thousand dollars, then we shall open our secret." Our secret is all open secret. You simply take advantage of it. Try to understand with your reason, with your sense, everything. We are prepared to convince you because we have got every equipment. We are not manufacturing anything bogus. We have got everything complete. So what was your question? Your question? Yes?

Young woman: No.

Prabhupāda: No, you just asked me this question. You asked me this question.

Young woman: Oh, I asked you . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, what is the question?

Young woman: The question was basically . . . the first question was what was the relationship of Kṛṣṇa with Christ, and you answered that. The second question was about, just about going to the moon, and you were saying that it would be possible, but you would . . .

Prabhupāda: There is no eternal life. In the moon planet . . . it is a planet like this planet. So as there is death, birth, old age and disease, so you go in any planet within this universe—there are millions of planets—the same thing will follow. The moon planet's . . . standard of moon planet may be a little more comfortable materially, just like the standard of living in your country is little better than Indian standard of living. But that does not mean you are not under the laws of these material sufferings. The same thing, either you become white or black or American or Indian, the material sufferings are there, birth death, old age and disease. But if you want to get out of it, then Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Bhaktijana: If you come to the Brahmaloka, do you have to come back to the . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhaktijana: . . . the earth planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes, any planet, earth planet or any planet. Suppose if I go out of your state—I may go to England or I may go to hell, but I am out. That's all. Your immigration departments wants that I, I must be out. I may go to hell or England or any other. (laughs) They want to say: "You are out." Similarly, the Brahmaloka planet, you'll see that you are out, either you come to this planet or moon planet or hell planet or heaven planet. That doesn't matter. They won't allow you to stay there. But the advantage of Brahmaloka planet is that you get very, very long duration of life and the standard of living, and there are so many things. Yes.

Similarly, moon planet also, the standard of living and duration of life, you get ten thousand years of life, and there one day equal to your six months. What you calculate as six months here according to the solar system, in the moon planet that six months equal to their one day. Similarly, thirty days, one month; twelve months, one year. Similarly, ten thousand years you get, life there. But there is death.

Just like the small microbe—it has got life, say, for few minutes, and you have got life, say, for a hundred years. That does not mean that you are immortal and that the microbe is a mortal. Both of us. Similarly, there are, in other planets, the duration of life may be very, very, very long, but that does not mean that they will not die. The death is there.

Death can be eradicated only when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka, or in the spiritual sky. Yad gatvā . . .

na tatra bhāsayate sūryo
na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
yad gatvā na nivartante
tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
(BG 15.6)

These descriptions are there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that in the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine. Bhāsayate sūr . . . na yatra bhāsayate sūryaḥ. Sūrya means the sun. There is no need of sun. There is no need of moon. There is no need of electricity. These descriptions are there.

na tatra bhāsayate sūryo
na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
yad gatvā na nivartante
tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
(BG 15.6)

If one, one . . . anyone goes there, he doesn't come back again.

So to go to that platform, or that plat . . . planet, you don't require any sputnik or any airplane. Simply you have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. But unfortunately, we have no taste for this simple thing. We want to do something wonderful. Very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa does not prescribe anything which is impractical. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). The process is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto mām: "Always chanting about Me." This "Me" means . . . does not mean Kṛṣṇa. I mean to say, Kṛṣṇa means God; you can chant that also. But it must be bona fide. But this is approved, "Kṛṣṇa." Therefore if our aim is to make our, I mean to say, if we want to revive our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, this is the simplest method. You can do it.

Young woman: (indistinct) . . . proofs . . . (indistinct) . . . of the name of God?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Young woman: How do you know that a name is approved?

Prabhupāda: How do you know even your name? How do you know?

Young woman: It's given by a human being.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Young woman: It was told to me by a person.

Prabhupāda: So who? Who told you?

Young woman: I suppose my mother.

Prabhupāda: Why do you believe her, that is your name?

Young woman: Why do I believe her?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why do you believe her? I say that it is not your name. Why do you believe that this is your name?

Young woman: I can choose my name if I don't like the name I have.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. But why do you believe? When I say: "What is your name?" you put your name which is given by your parents. And why not by your friend?

Young woman: It's arbitrary.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Young woman: It's arbitrary.

Prabhupāda: But you accept it.

Young woman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you have to accept, because your mother is authority.

Young woman: Yes. But who is the authority for telling me . . .

Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is the principle. So you have to accept the name of God from God. You cannot manufacture.

Young woman: How do you know that, "Kṛṣṇa" is a name of God?

Prabhupāda: That, it will take some time. How do you know he's your father? Some gentleman comes. Your mother says, "He's your father." How do you know it?

Young woman: I have no proof?

Prabhupāda: Can you have any proof, that he's your father?

Young woman: I suppose there will be biological . . .

Prabhupāda: No. You are not born at that time. How can you know that he is your father? You have to take, accept, your mother's version. That's all. That is your authority. Your mother says, "This gentleman is your father." You have to accept it. There is no other way to understand.

Young woman: . . . convenient to accept it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you accept the authority. Then you know Kṛṣṇa, who is God, who is Kṛṣṇa.

Young woman: Then who is the authority?

Prabhupāda: Just like your mother is authority, similarly, there are authorities. This is the process. This is the process. If you want to know who is your father, you have to know it from your mother. There is no other alternative. Is it not a fact?

Young woman: I might know . . .

Prabhupāda: First of all, you answer this. If you want to know who is your father, who can be better authority than your mother?

Young woman: No one. But she may also make . . .

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Young woman: . . . mistakes.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Young woman: No one, but she may also make mistakes.

Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune. If your mother misleads you, gives you misinformation, then that is your misfortune. But there is no other way to know who is your father except your mother.

Young woman: But also there is no way for me to know who my mother is.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but I am speaking of the process to understand. This is the process. I may be the . . . the man who is presenting or the woman who is presenting somebody as your father, she might be misleading you. That is a different thing. But you have no other process to understand your father except your mother.

Young woman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly, there is a process how to know God. So you have to accept that process. Then you'll know God. There is no other alternative.

Young woman: Yet you say that there are several processes for knowing God. Is that right? That are written? And that only one can be used now?

Prabhupāda: That several processes may be, but you have to take any process from the authority. Any process you accept, that means you accept the authority.

Young woman: How does the authority know to tell you?

Prabhupāda: That he knows. You have to accept that he knows that . . . your mother knows. You have to accept it. Otherwise, there is no question of believing your mother. Unless you believe that your mother knows who is your father, then there is no question of asking her who is your father.

If you don't believe your mother, then you have no necessity of questioning who is your father. First of all, you have to believe that your mother is the only authority to let you know who is your father. If you are not convinced in that point, then don't ask. Then always remain in oblivion who is your father.

Young woman: I understand the first example, but not the analogy.

Prabhupāda: Why? If you want to know your father, you have to know it from your mother.

Young woman: I understand.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Young woman: But . . .

Prabhupāda: But, if you don't believe your mother, then there is no other way to know your father.

Young woman: I understand that.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Similarly, here are scriptures who are telling, speaking about God. If you have no faith in scripture, there is no other process to know God.

Young woman: I see. But I understand why I should have faith in my mother for biological reasons, and I don't see why I should have faith in . . .

Prabhupāda: But that is the rule. You may, biologically, may be different, crazy, but that is the rule.

Young woman: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Well, that is the rule. How can you change the rule? You are female. You have got some specific rules. You have to follow. He's a man. He has got some specific rules he has to follow. This is the nature's law. How can you avoid it?

Young woman: Sorry?

Prabhupāda: How can you avoid it? You have certain feelings, propensities, as woman. How can you avoid it? So you cannot avoid the nature's law.

Young woman: But then some, some rules have to be told to me or read from the scriptures. And some I know inherently, in myself.

Prabhupāda: What you know inherently, that is not correct. Then why do you go to school? You know that the . . .

Young woman: Yes, but there are . . .

Prabhupāda: No. You know that the sun looks for your . . . by your direct experience, you see the sun just like a disc . . .

Young woman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . but when you go to school, you understand it is many hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So your knowledge is always imperfect. You have to know from authority. That is the rule. If you want to know about the sun, you have to go to the authority who knows about the sun, not by your intuition, you think, "Oh, it is a disc. It is like this. It is like that." You go on speculation, but it is not perfect knowledge.

Young woman: When I go to the authority, and he tells me about the sun . . .

Prabhupāda: Anyway, wherever you go, first of all you believe that "Here is the place where I can know the real thing." That is the authority. If you have no faith, then you have no knowledge. You remain with your own knowledge, go on speculating. Therefore the Vedic instruction is, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to know that science, then you have to approach a bona fide spiritual master.

There is no other way. You cannot speculate. You cannot manufacture. That is not possible, because your senses are all imperfect, your capacity is imperfect, so you cannot have any perfect knowledge. You have to get it from authority who has got perfect knowledge. That is the principle. So if you want to know God, then you have to approach a bona fide person who knows God.

Otherwise, it is not possible. If you don't find such person, then you'll always remain ignorant what is God. That is the process. But there is authority. There is possibility, provided we are fortunate, we get in contact. Then everything is all right.

Bhaktijana: Does Jesus Christ reside in the Vaikuṇṭhas or Brahmaloka?

Prabhupāda: No. Vaikuṇṭha. He's person. Brahmaloka, Brahmaloka is within this material world, and Vaikuṇṭha, in the spiritual world. Do you follow what I say? That if you want to know God, you have to approach a person who knows God. Otherwise there is no possibility. If you think that, "Here is a man who knows God," then you ask him. If you don't think that in this world there is no man who knows God, then you have to remain in ignorance about the knowledge of God.

Young woman: That seems a very hopeless situation.

Prabhupāda: Then hopeless for you, but not for others. One who accepts . . .

Young woman: How, how do I . . .

Prabhupāda: One who accepts the authority, then it is not hopeless for him. It is very simple. Just like one is asking: "Swāmījī, what is this?" I say: "It is rose flower." Then the knowledge of rose flower is there. Then if somebody says: "I don't accept it," then he may not know. So you have to accept authority. There is no other alternative. Now you have to find out who is authority. That requires intelligence. If you go to a bogus man and ask him about God, you may be misled. That is a fact. That is your duty—to find out a man who knows God. Then you'll get.

Just like . . . this is commonsense affair. Suppose if you want to purchase something in the market, some milk. So you have to know that "I'll have to go to some store." You don't go to a hardware man, hardware dealer's. If you go to a hardware dealer and ask him, "Give me one bottle of milk," he'll say: "You are crazy. This is hardware shop." So you must have such common sense where to go and ask for God. That common sense must be there. And that is also very easily understood. Those who have devoted their life for God and they have no other business than God, to serve God, he is the right man.

Young woman: May I ask another question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young woman: Thank you. Do you say that God has nothing to do?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young woman: But He has lots of energies, and . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young woman: . . . it is the energy that creates beautiful things?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Young woman: How is the energy ordered?

Prabhupāda: How is the energy . . .?

Young woman: Is ordered? How is it that there are both roses . . .

Prabhupāda: Well, that energy is so perfect. Just like you are feeling some itching. You want to itch it. Immediately hand goes. It does not require that you have to train the hand to itch it. So you have got such energy. So just imagine: He's complete. He's full—how much His energy is perfect. He doesn't require. Immediately He desires . . . just like in Bible it is said: "God said, 'Let there be creation,' immediately there was creation."

So His energy is so perfect that He wanted to see this material cosmic manifestation—immediately there was. But because we haven't got such energy we think this is all illusion or fictitious or something like that. Because if you want something immediately, you have no such energy that, immediately, the same thing is done. That is not possible.

That is possible also when you are also in spiritual life. But now you are conditioned by the matter; therefore that is not being perfected. But when you are also in pure spiritual life, you can do like that, like God. Immediately, whatever you want, you can do. Immediately, wherever you want to go, you can go. That is the . . . that perfection is there.

Young woman: Does that mean that you can do it just so that you see it or so that other people can see it?

Prabhupāda: No, anyone who comes to the spiritual perfection, he can act like that.

Young woman: Then my question is if you have a man who has spiritual perfection and another man sitting next to him who does not have spiritual perfection, and the man who has perfection wishes to have a rose, and, and . . .

Prabhupāda: Wishes to have?

Young woman: A rose. And, a rose . . .

Devotee: A flower.

Prabhupāda: A rose? Oh.

Young woman: . . . and he might see the rose or have that rose because he has spiritual perfection.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is possible.

Young woman: Can the other man see the rose?

Prabhupāda: That is possible.

Young woman: The other man can . . .

Prabhupāda: That is possible. That is the yogic perfection. If anyone . . . there are eight kinds of yogic perfection, and one is called prāpti. Prāpti means if actually a man is in yogic perfection, he can immediately have whatever he wants. That is possible.

Young woman: How do you measure . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Young woman: . . . your liberation from the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: Well, that, as you replace yourself to Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . you are under the laws of nature because you are material conscious. Just like one who is in criminal consciousness, he's committing criminal activities and going to jail. It is the change of consciousness.

The same man, if he changes his criminal consciousness, then he's no more subjected to go to the jail. Similarly, liberation means if you become complete in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are liberated. All right. Have saṅkīrtana.

(kīrtana) (Prabhupāda leads prema-dhvanī) Thank you very much.

Devotee: (offers obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Give me that paper. Distribute prasādam. (break) . . . this appreciation one thing. And another thing is how to produce a flower like Kṛṣṇa with my energy. Do you follow? Two attempt. One is appreciation of Kṛṣṇa's energy, how great He is, that simply by His desire, His energies are so perfect that it is producing such nice flower. This is appreciation. And another thing is, how shall I get that power, yogic power, so that as soon as I desire, there may be a rose flower.

Now, suppose I attain that power, to produce with my desire a rose flower. In Benares there was a yogī, Viśuddhānanda Sarasvatī. Whoever used to come to him, he would at once take a plate and give him, and at once he'll find two nice sweetmeat. So by this extraordinary power, many learned scholars and professors and big men: "Oh, he is a great yogī. He can manufacture rasagullā."

You see? "In a plate, as soon as you go, there immediately he presents." This is magic. They are captivated by the magic. They are not . . . they are so foolish that they did not consider what is worth this sweetmeat. Four cents and four cents, eight cents. So even if he has achieved that power, for producing this rasagullā what he has attained? It is worth eight cents.

Suppose if I show some magical power and present one rose flower in your hand, you may be very surprised—now, "Oh, Swāmījī is wonderful." But what is the meaning of that wonderful? Say ten cents. That's all. You can purchase one flower with ten cents.

So don't be after these magical things. Just try to appreciate Kṛṣṇa, how He's great. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Do you follow what I say? Don't be after magicians. The magic . . . magician can also play very nice, wonderful . . . so many things. But that is not perfection. Suppose if I can create by my yogic power two rasagullā or one rasagullā, what is the worth? A few cents only. Just try to revive your eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection of life. Then you get all perfection.

Don't be after . . . people are after magical things. What magic I can show God? Just like the scientists, they are trying to create life in the laboratory, although they have not been able to create even an ant. Suppose he's able to create some living entity. Just like the scientist is very proud for inventing this flying machine.

But just see how many millions and trillions of flying machines are flying in the sky created by God—without any machine. So you cannot surpass the intelligence and energy of God. Therefore you simply appreciate. That is your perfection. Yes.

Young woman: When you say one . . . one has been . . . one has perfection, then one is no longer interested in reading the newspaper and what goes on in the world—is that right?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Young woman: If one has achieved spiritual perfection . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Young woman: One is no longer interested in what goes on in the world.

Prabhupāda: Why not interested?

Young woman: I'm asking . . .

Prabhupāda: Why do you say "not interested"? I can understand you also.

Young woman: Because you said we wouldn't read the newspapers any more . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh? No . . . (end)