720626 - Conversation - Los Angeles

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720626GC-LOS ANGELES - June 26, 1972 - 39:35 Minutes

(garden conversation with Professor Kulshrestha)

Prabhupāda: . . . achedyam. These are the . . . achedya, can be cut into pieces . . . (indistinct) . . . cannot be burned. Now the physist, chemist, they have got experience, everything burns, everything is melted; therefore it is metaphysical. What is metaphysical? What is the meaning of "meta"?

Devotee: "Under."

Prabhupāda: Huh? Metaphysics.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Is it "above"?

Prabhupāda: Physics and metaphysics. What is this "meta"?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Beyond physics.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ mūḍha-mate. Scientists, physists, philosophers, after all, they will die. So knowledge of physics and chemistry cannot save you. Therefore Śaṅkarācārya says bhaja govindaṁ: "Just become devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa."

Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). There are many instances, great saintly persons have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lord Caitanya says, "Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). So we should have to follow the big personalities. Why should we hesitate?

(pause) By this carriage where Tulasī-devī goes?

Devotee (1): I don't know.

Devotee (2): They take her into the temple.

Prabhupāda: Within the . . .

Devotee (1): Into the temple? (pause)

Prabhupāda: Scientists are also becoming interested. Here is a statement.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, he told me two scientists want to come to see you, but they can't come tomorrow night, and the next night you'll be gone.

Prabhupāda: What about the other scientists who came?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't see them.

Devotee (1): I think American scientists would be easier to talk to.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, these are American scientists, physists.

Devotee (1): I think Americans scientists will be easier to talk to.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (1): ‘Cause they don't think they know anything about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They are untouched. Our Indian, they are touched and polluted. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But most of them, most of the scientists, people in the universities and schools, they are exposed to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have not been . . . they have not direct contact with devotees, but they have seen the devotees and so on, in most . . . so they ask me, "How do I call these people? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa' or . . .?" I say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." They have seen our devotees come in the schools and campuses, chanting.

Prabhupāda: Tulasī-devī's growing nicely in this park. As soon as there is sincere devotion, Tulasī will grow. In your . . . (indistinct) . . . wonderful, Tulasī, due to Govinda dāsī's devotion. Simply for that tulasī plant I want to remain. It is so nice. They have grown anywhere else, or simply there?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: In the other islands we also have big. In Maui we have four that are . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: . . . big.

Prabhupāda: It will sanctify the whole place.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: How big was that?

Devotee (1): Six feet tall. Five and a half, six feet tall, five feet wide.

Prabhupāda: That is in Hawaii, er, here?

Devotee (1): Maui? Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Honolulu. Honolulu.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: The ones in Honolulu are almost that big. Their trunks are like this big. The trunks.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: How many years?

Prabhupāda: About three years. Two years, not more than that.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: In the beginning there was . . . hard, trouble. There are so many.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They're in the ground outside.

Siddha-svarūpānanda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Some madman cut them down, the big ones?

Siddha-svarūpānanda: He cut a few, but he couldn't kill them. He cut a few, cut some limbs. They moved out. Those neighbors have finally left. They're lucky. They almost . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: How long you are here?

Professor Kulshrestha: I came here September, Swāmījī, and . . .

Prabhupāda: Last September?

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What you are doing?

Professor Kulshrestha: I've come for some research work here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (japa) Kṛṣṇa is very kind He has come here.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. Kṛṣṇa's very kind, and you are here. You have got His blessings here.

Prabhupāda: Here is Tulasī.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, the sacred plant.

Prabhupāda: (japa) (break) . . . saba mithyā. This is Bengali.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-nāma . . . you understand Bengali?

Professor Kulshrestha: Very well, Swāmījī. Very well, yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Kṛṣṇa-nāma karo bhāi āra saba mithyā, palāibe patha naya ya mache kichu.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Take to Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Don't neglect. Anything else, that is all nonsense. This is the only essence of life. If you want to avoid it, then Yamarāja, the superintendent of death, will not excuse. Palāibe patha naya. What is your subject matter of research?

Professor Kulshrestha: My subject matter of research is Indians, see, their emigration from India and the assimilation various countries, you see. And message of India, which is spreading around the world.

Prabhupāda: So you are taking an interest in our . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, Swāmījī. I've been here quite frequently. And I've been actually waiting for you to come. And as Lord Kṛṣṇa wills, you see . . . well, yesterday one of your disciples went to my place of his own, you see, and told me of it, you see? It is Lord who wished to see and who desired it to see.

Prabhupāda: So you are deputed by government?

Professor Kulshrestha: No. You see, I am a retired professor from India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Professor Kulshrestha: And on my own, you see.

Prabhupāda: Government is not interested.

Professor Kulshrestha: No, no.

Prabhupāda: That is the . . . they're assimilating this culture very nicely.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. I want to talk to you for some time on this topic, actually.

Prabhupāda: You can talk now.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Kulshrestha: 'Cause I have worked, you see, from 1949 to 1952. I was a professor in the University of London, you see.

Prabhupāda: I see.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, yes. Then, you see, that was almost the beginning of my career. You know some . . . (indistinct) . . . was there in the university. And I was working in the university at the time. And well . . .

Prabhupāda: London University, when you were there?

Professor Kulshrestha: '49 to '52.

Prabhupāda: Oh. We have got our temple near London University.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Seven Bury Place.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: London University, that is Russell district?

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. Russell Street, yes. Russell Square, Russell Street.

Prabhupāda: There is a Square, Bedford?

Professor Kulshrestha: Bedford Square, yes. That's right.

Prabhupāda: Another Square, Boomsbury?

Śyāmasundara: Bloomsbury.

Professor Kulshrestha: Bloomsbury, yes.

Prabhupāda: Bloomsbury. And the museum . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The museum is just one block after.

Professor Kulshrestha: I see.

Prabhupāda: Bury Place, then you must know.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So in the beginning of . . . what is that street?

Śyāmasundara: Montague Street?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That main street . . .

Śyāmasundara: Oxford Street?

Prabhupāda: Oxford that side. Bloomsbury . . .

Śyāmasundara: Bloomsbury Way.

Prabhupāda: Bloomsbury, huh?

Śyāmasundara: Bloomsbury Way.

Prabhupāda: Bloomsbury. Bloomsbury. From Bloomsbury, Bury Place is there on the corner, exactly on the corner in the beginning. It is a very important place.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, it is a very thick of the town area. Thick of the town area.

Prabhupāda: So all Indians, Englishmen, they come to our temple. Yes

Professor Kulshrestha: You have brought the wonderful message in the wonderful way, you see. Really. And what do you need is further expansion. The message should spread out.

Prabhupāda: It is spreading. These boys are spreading.

Professor Kulshrestha: Oh, they're working very hard. Yes, yes, yes. They're working very hard. Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: They're all qualified.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. And I have, believe, seen some of the books now you are mentioned, but you are mentioned Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters. You see? They often mention you "Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters," you see, "those who are recite Hare Kṛṣṇa," like that.

Prabhupāda: We have published so many books. Big books.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, I know. No, English authors, other authors have mentioned it, you see, when they talk about American society, when they talk of those society, religions, and various groups in the society, they talk of you as Hare Kṛṣṇa chanters.

Prabhupāda: They say sometimes: "Hare Kṛṣṇa people."

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. Yes. (laughs)

Śyāmasundara: What do they say?

Professor Kulshrestha: Oh, all this crazy . . . (indistinct) . . . oh, it is a great message, you know. It is a great blessing, great message.

Prabhupāda: Aye.

Professor Kulshrestha: Swāmījī has served, you see, mankind that way, you see.

Prabhupāda: What about you? It is the message of Lord Caitanya . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, I know, I know.

Prabhupāda: . . . He says paropakāra. He says:

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila jāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

So actually we Indians, we have got a privilege for paropakāra, for doing paropakāra. We have got the privilege. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's word, that anyone who has taken birth as a human being in Bhāratavarṣa, he can fructify, he can make his life successful, fruitful, and do welfare activities for others.

That means those who are Indians, they have got the advantage of Vedic culture, so they should assimilate this Vedic culture in life and go outside and spread this. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But we have neglected.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. That is what I was going to say, you see, this is message for all. And how many . . .

Prabhupāda: People are so anxious to receive this message . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . and our people, our government, callous. This is the misfortune.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Our leaders, they don't care.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They say: "Throw away these Vedic knowledge in the water." I have heard, lecturing.

Professor Kulshrestha: And they're having the trouble, Swāmījī.

Prabhupāda: They must have.

Professor Kulshrestha: They're having trouble so deep. They're having troubles.

Prabhupāda: Still India's so much fallen condition, still people are hankering after India's message.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We have received letter from Cox and Kings…

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, the traveling . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That many travelers, they're very much inquisitive to know about India's spiritual message, whether we can take care of them.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They've written us. And they are preparing . . . we are constructing a temple in Vṛndāvana, in Māyāpura, in Bombay also to receive these tourists and give them . . . we are giving here also the same thing.

So we are arranging, but we are not getting full support, either from government. Public, Indians, they are giving little support, but they cannot send their money. This government has got a cultural department . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . that they'll send some dancers.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Guest: We have to pay the taxes . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: We have to pay the taxes if we belong to religious group, and we don't have to pay if we belong to the national group. There are the taxes like that.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, taxes, yes.

Guest: If you donate any money to a religion, then you have to pay taxes. But if you pay, donate any money to a national activity, then you need not to pay any taxes for that.

Professor Kulshrestha: Either for religions not national? (laughter)

Guest: Just religion is like, that because Nehru was a nonreligious person at that time. Seventeen years. He didn't believe in God.

Prabhupāda: But this is not a religion, this is a culture.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: And what is culture? Culture has the full . . . (indistinct) . . . aspect, and religion is the most important one.

Prabhupāda: Our culture, our Vedic culture, is on religion, on God consciousness, everything. The whole social structure, political structure, philosophical structure, scientific structure, everything is aiming on Viṣṇu. Tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūraya. Viṣṇu, God. And in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa it is said:

varṇāśramācāra-vatā

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān

viṣṇur ārādhyate (panthā)

nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam

(CC Madhya 8.58)

So our cultural aim, Vedic cultural aim, is tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ. How to satisfy Him. But they do not know about Viṣṇu. They have forgotten Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ (SB 7.5.31).

Our self-interest is there in Viṣṇu. Na te viduḥ. These foolish men, they do not know. Durāśayā bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are uselessly hoping that they will be able to adjust things by material advancement.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is their mistake. So-called scientists, so-called religion that, "We shall make you happy. We are discovering now new methods, new interpretation." That will not . . . that will not help.

Professor Kulshrestha: The rate of those persons who are having blood pressure and such diseases, Swāmījī, is rising like anything in America. Why? Because they are going away from God, you see.

Prabhupāda: Anxiety.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Blood pressure is a disease of . . .?

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. Just anxiety.

Prabhupāda: And anxiety is the material disease.

Professor Kulshrestha: That's right.

Prabhupāda: That is not new; it is always. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained this disease to his father.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He asked from his son, "What you have learned, best thing, explain." So he said:

tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ

sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt

(SB 7.5.5)

This is samudvigna, anxiety.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So, Prahlāda Mahārāja said: "In my opinion," tat sādhu manye "I think that this is the best thing." What is that? That "These people who are materially entrapped, they are full of anxieties."

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: "So, for them it is better," hitva andha-kūpaṁ . . . hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ. Just like one is fallen in the blind well, so this so-called materialistic way of life is just like one man fallen in the blind well.

So one should give it up and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. That is first class. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is preaching people, educating people, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa and everything will be solved."

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our message.

Professor Kulshrestha: "Leave everything, come to My repose."

Prabhupāda: There is no question of leaving. We cannot leave.

Professor Kulshrestha: Leave is dedicate.

Prabhupāda: Dedicate, yes.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, that is the meaning.

Prabhupāda: That, ah, this philosophy I was explaining this morning, that we don't leave anything.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like Māyāvādī philosophers, they are completely disinterested in material things. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. But we don't say mithyā. Why should we say mithyā?

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is God's creation. God is truth.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. So He will create truth.

Prabhupāda: So how . . . pūrṇasya . . . pūrṇat pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation).

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: So it is not useless. So therefore we are utilizing everything for Kṛṣṇa's purpose.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha (Brs. 1.2.255). We dovetail everything in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is our philosophy. We don't say this is false. This is not false. How it can be false? It may be temporary—anitya, not false. We exactly use the word anitya.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anitya means temporary.

antavanta ime dehā

nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ

(BG 2.18)

This body is antavata. It is to be finished, exhausted, not inexhausted. But it is not false.

antavanta ime dehā

nityasyoktāḥśarīriṇaḥ

Professor Kulshrestha: Swāmījī, I get the feeling sometimes, after living here for so many months, that you can have a lot of money from this country, that's a fact, you see. The whole thing is you are so busy, you have got so many bases to look after, the entire universe, that sort of thing is yours . . .

Prabhupāda: Universe is mine? Nobody cares for me. (laughs)

Professor Kulshrestha: No, obviously I was joking, Swāmījī. They all remember you like anything.

Prabhupāda: That is their kindness. But universe is Kṛṣṇa's, and we are Kṛṣṇa's servant, therefore we have right to say that it is our. (laughter) Īśāvāsyam . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Money should be no problem.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Professor Kulshrestha: Money should be no problem in America.

Prabhupāda: No, we have no money problem. Actually we have no money problem. We are spending in all our branches about seventy hundred thousand dollars.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That means in Indian exchange that is seven lakhs.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And money is coming. We have no fixed income.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We are depending on selling of the books, incense. There is no certainty. But we are maintaining. In this building we have to spend about . . . how many thousand dollars?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: A month, about six thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: No, more than that.

Śyāmasundara: Here it's ten.

Prabhupāda: Ten thousand dollars. Similarly in New York. So all our branches are very expensive. So Kṛṣṇa is supplying.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This boy came to us, he contributed $38,000—whatever he had. So through somehow or other . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . coming. After all, money is Kṛṣṇa's.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Lakṣmī. Lakṣmī is Nārāyaṇa's property.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: When Nārāyaṇa is there, Lakṣmī must be there. Because Lakṣmī is not unfaithful. She cannot live alone. Rather, those who are materialistic persons, they are trying to capture Lakṣmī without Nārāyaṇa.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. So it is cañcalā. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: It is. Just like Rāvaṇa captured Lakṣmī.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Defied Rāma, Nārāyaṇa, and captured Lakṣmī. He thought, "I don't care for Nārāyaṇa; I care for Lakṣmī." The result was that he became vanquished. Life, property and everything—sons, daughters, all family.

So that is going to happen. If they do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be finished like Rāvaṇa. That's a fact. The atom bomb is there already. So they must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, otherwise they will be finished. Their so-called science will not save.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What science will save? There was inundation in the eastern part.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Similar things—the Pacific Ocean can finish all this California in a second. How the science can protect?

Professor Kulshrestha: Science has got more means for destruction, I believe.

Prabhupāda: They can use, that's all.

Professor Kulshrestha: And what is destruction? Changing for.

Prabhupāda: (sounds of lecture over loudspeaker) What is that?

Devotee (1): Pradyumna is giving a lecture in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): Pradyumna is giving a lecture in the temple. Broadcasting it over the speakers.

Devotee (2): Right now? (laughter)

Professor Kulshrestha: Competition.

Prabhupāda: Our students are now speaking.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes. Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: Some universities are . . . what is that? Don't stop that.

Devotee: I am just going to have to turn the speaker down here; no one can hear.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . in the temple listening. Hare Kṛṣṇa? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The other day one scientist came. What is his name?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Doctor of science. So he was speaking very, what is called?

Śyāmasundara: Bombastically? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And after all, he admitted that we are controlled by the laws of nature. As laws . . . there must some controller of the laws of nature. That the scientists do not know. We said: "Yes, we know." That is the difference.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes, that's right. That's right.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. So our conclusion was that they do not know, but we know.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. Everyone will admit that he is controlled by the laws of nature. Nobody can deny it. Now as soon as we speak of laws, there must be there, somebody, law-giver.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Law cannot spring up automatically. As soon as there is law, there must be some law-giver. And that information is there in the Bhagavad-gītā.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

sūyate sa-carācaram

(BG 9.10)

"Under My direction the laws of nature are working." In the Brahma-saṁhitā also there is:

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā

chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā

icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā . . .

(Bs. 5.44)

Durga is not working independently. She is working under the direction of the Supreme Lord. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā mayādhyakṣeṇa: "Under My superintendence." So for us it is not difficult; we accepted Kṛṣṇa, and it is acting for practical purposes. Therefore, we are more than scientist.

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They do not know who is behind these laws of nature, but we know. You may disagree; that is a different thing. But as we say: "We know," it is working practically. And you do not know, neither you have any program to know, neither you can . . .

Professor Kulshrestha: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Neither you have got the capacity to know. That is not possible. You cannot know. You are . . . just like a person who is suffering from some disease, he cannot diagnose himself. He cannot find out what is the cause of the disease. He must go to a physician who is not diseased.

Even a medical man when he falls sick, he entrusts himself in the care of another physician. He does not treat himself. Therefore if you are under the clutches of māyā, you cannot understand what is beyond māyā. That is not possible. Māyā will not allow you to understand. Just like if you want to enter in a big man's house, there are so many doorkeepers.

So you cannot go by force to see the proprietor. You have to remain under the control of the doorkeepers. They will not allow you unless you are submissive.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

(BG 7.14)

Māyā will not allow. So this method, speculative method, to know the Supreme, will not be successful.

Professor Kulshrestha: Swāmī, these scientist don't know what is nature also. Ask them what is nature, and they can't tell you what is nature. They can't define nature, you see.

Prabhupāda: What is . . . what is their definition? Here is a scientist. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nature . . . we also think nature is controlled by some supernatural power. Of course, there is somebody behind nature who is controlling the necessary self.

Professor Kulshrestha: No, what is nature they can't see. What is nature.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nature is the energy of the Lord.

Professor Kulshrestha: Those scientists who don't believe in God, you see. One scientist I met, to say, he asked me, "Can you give me empirical evidence of God?" I said: "You don't need one." He said: "No, I need to believe." I said: "The entire world is empirical evidence," you see? "You see a flower, you see a plant, you see a man, you see a . . . (indistinct) . . . everything is just evidence of God," you see.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Kulshrestha: He said to say evidence of nature. I said: "Define me nature," you see. He said he couldn't define nature, you see.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving the chances . . .

(aside) You have got the wood? You have brought the wood?

Those who cannot understand what is God, Kṛṣṇa is giving them instances how one can understand God in their own ways. He said:

raso 'ham apsu kaunteya

prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ

(BG 7.8)

"I am the taste in the water."

Professor Kulshrestha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now, you are scientist, you know how to create water. But the taste you cannot create. That is not possible. Now He says that prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ: "I am the light of the sun . . ." (cut) (end)