680610 - Lecture BG 04.05 - Montreal

Lectures by Date, 1968

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

680610BG-MONTREAL - June 10, 1968 - 97:23 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (leads kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) (devotees offer obeisances)

bhagavān uvāca

bahūni me vyatītāni

janmāni tava cārjuna

tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi

na tvaṁ vettha parantapa

(BG 4.5)

Now Kṛṣṇa is explaining to Arjuna the difference between a living entity and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is very distinct here that "Both you and Me had many, many, many other appearances and disappearances." "Birth and death," that is ordinary word. Actually, the word is "appearance and disappearance." Just like the sun.

The sun sets and sun rises. This is our calculation. The sun is there always, twenty-four hours, but to our limited understanding, because we cannot see . . . now just this is sun-setting time. After setting of the sun, the people on this part of the world, they will not see the sun. That does not mean that sun is not there. Sun is there, but this part of the world cannot see it, and that we say sunset.

Similarly, if this is possible for a material object . . . sun is nothing but a material object, lump of material matter, very powerful, predominantly fiery. That's all. Everything in the material world, they're made of five elements: ether, air, and fire, water and earth. So in somewhere the earth is predominant, somewhere the air is predominant, somewhere the fire is predominant.

So there are innumerable planets, and the sun is one of them. So this is also material object. If it is possible for the material object to disappear and appear within our limited senses, so what to speak of God and His devotees. So God does not mean that because He is not visible to our imperfect senses, therefore God has no existence. This is foolishness. God is existent. But one who has got eyes to see . . .

What is that eye? Just like a small child. If I say to the small child, so "Sun is there in the sky," and the child will say: "Show me where is the sun." And if somebody says: "Yes, come on, I shall show you sun. Come on the roof. I have got a torch-light . . ." As it is not possible to show the sun at night, although the child is insisting, similarly, the so-called scientists who are claiming that there is no God, they're just like the child.

You have to understand. Just like a man who is advanced in knowledge, he knows that sun is there. Although I cannot see at night, but sun is there. He's convinced. Similarly, those who are advanced in spiritual knowledge, they can see God in every moment

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

(Bs. 5.38)

And what is that scientific knowledge? That is very simple: prema. If you have love of God, then you are qualified to see God every moment. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. When one's eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of Godhead, by that clear eyes . . . just like sometimes we use ointment to the eyes to see very clearly, similarly, these eyes, these material eyes, are incompetent to see God—these ears, incompetent to hear the holy name of God—this tongue is incompetent to chant the holy name of God.

Similarly, all the senses, they are, being material. So constitutionally, they cannot see God, they cannot hear of God, they cannot chant of the holy name of God. But it is possible. The śāstra gives you indication: sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). If you are in service attitude, then beginning from your tongue . . . jihvā, jihvā means tongue. Jihvādau, beginning with tongue. The God realization begins with your tongue and ear. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and hear the transcendental name, and gradually you shall realize.

Just like an experienced man knows that there is sun in the sky although it is invisible. Similarly, the actual word, here it is stated, bahūni me vyatītāni janmāni tava cārjuna. So God or the living entities, they're appearing and disappearing. Just try to understand the same example, sun. Sun is always existing, but it is appearing and disappearing. Similarly, we also appear and disappear.

Actually, we are eternal. Both God and the living entities, they are qualitatively one, eternal. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Sat means eternity, and cit means full of knowledge, and ānanda means full of joy. These are the qualifications of God and living entity. Therefore we are hankering after pleasure. All people are working hard, day and night, for pleasure. Because by constitution, he is pleasureful, joyful. As soon as there is little hindrance to the process of his joyfulness, he becomes sorry. This is my nature. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ.

But God and the living entity, both being sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. Vigraha means form, individuality. So God has form, and you have got also form, I have got also form, everyone has got form. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is the supreme individual personality, and we are subordinate personalities. That is the difference. Otherwise, in quality, God, you and me are all the same. That Kṛṣṇa says.

So far appearance and disappearance is concerned, Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa are on the same level. Bahūni me vyatītāni janmāni (BG 4.5). "My dear Arjuna, I have many, many appearance and disappearance in the past. Similarly, you had also many appearance and disappearances in the past. But the difference is, tāny ahaṁ veda. My appearance and disappearances, I remember everything, past, present, future, everything." Na tvaṁ vettha parantapa: "But you do not." Now, we cannot remember what was . . . what I was in my past life. Neither I know what I am going to be in the next life. But there is. I was in the past, I am in the present, and I shall remain in the future. That is my position.

In the Second Chapter it is said by Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Arjuna, both you and Me and all these kings and soldiers who are assembled here, do not think that they did not exist in the past or they will cease to exist in the future. They existed in the past as individuals, and they are existing at present as individuals, and they will exist in the future also as individuals." This is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Second Chapter. The difference between God and living entity is this: that God knows past, present, future, and I or you do not know past, present and future. That is the difference.

Tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi. Sarvāṇi. There were millions and millions of births and appearance and disappearance in the past. Because time is unlimited, nitya. There is no . . . the past, present, future, this is due to this body. Just like a small ant, its calculation of past, present and future and my calculation of past, present and future are different. Because he has got a different body, I have got a different body, the atom has got a different body.

So it is according to the body, past, present and future. But there is a life where there is no existence of this material body of past, present and future. Therefore in the eternal world means there is no past, present and future. Because there is no . . . not this material body. This is the difference between past, present and future. Therefore it is called nitya. Nitya means eternal, where there is no influence of this time. Here the influence of time is there; therefore we experience past, present and future.

Now from this verse, Kṛṣṇa says that tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi. That means "For Me, there is no past and present and future." That means His body is different from Arjuna's. Because He knows. Why I forget? Because I have got this material body. And Kṛṣṇa does not forget, therefore He has no material body. It is natural conclusion. Because past, present and future is due to this material body. Otherwise, there is no . . . just like for the sun.

These are all scientific truth. You know when from Russia the first Sputnik was started, in one hour they circumambulated twenty-five times the whole world. In one hour and twenty-five minutes. Now the circumambulating the whole world means so many twenty-five day and night. That twenty-five day and night was finished in one hour. And it is scientific truth. Professor Einstein has established that in the higher planetary system the timing system is different.

So when there is no these material impediments, naturally the life is eternal, the knowledge is eternal, the bliss is eternal. As soon as we are free from this material body, then these questions of past, present, future, pleasure, not pleasure, knowledge, no knowledge, these dualities, this world of duality, will finish. The impersonalist, the Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that because the past, present and future, and this duality is finished, therefore there is no variegatedness. They cannot understand. They cannot accommodate in their tiny brain that this is possible.

Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, now it is established that He hasn't got this material body. It will be confirmed in the Tenth Chapter also: avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Rascals . . . mūḍha means rascals. Most ignorant, he is called mūḍha, or an ass. So this word is used there, mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascals. "Rascals, they decry upon Me, Kṛṣṇa, because I am here just like an ordinary man." Mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam. "Because I have appeared here as an ordinary man, as Kṛṣṇa, as Arjuna's friend or the son of Devakī and Vasudeva, or the descendant in the Yadu dynasty, so many things," avajānanti, "they are decrying Me, neglecting."

Why? Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. "They do not know the real constitutional position of Me." Paraṁ bhāvam. Paraṁ bhāvam means "the supreme truth about Me." That supreme truth is partially explained here that, tāny . . . tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi: "I know past, present and future, but you do not." This is paraṁ bhāvam.

This is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. They are on the same level, on the same chariot. They are friends. Not only on that particular moment of fighting, battlefield, but they are friends from the beginning. Just like friend and friend, they stick together, they eat together, they lie together, they talk together, they quarrel together. This is friendly.

So Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna was in friendly terms and almost of equal age, very intimate friends, as it has been explained in the previous verse, bhakto 'si sakhā ceti: "You are My friend and devotee." So in spite of their living together, there is difference. Now here the difference is disclosed. Tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi. Although he is living together, the difference is clear because constitutional position.

I'll give you another very small example. Just like a king is sitting on the throne and there is a bug. The bug and the king, they are on the same throne, but the bug and the king, much difference. So sitting on the same throne does not mean that they have become equal. Why?

Due to the constitutional position. The bug's constitutional position is to bite only, and the king's position is to rule. Although they are on the same level, the difference is great gulf of difference. Similarly, God and the living entity may sit down together, may talk together, they lie together, eat together, but that difference will be there.

Just like, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa says: "My dear Arjuna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Paramātmā, is situated in everyone's heart." That means Kṛṣṇa, or God, is situated in your heart, in my heart, in cat's heart, in dog's heart, in everyone's, in ant's heart. There is heart in everyone, and there is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe (BG 18.61). Now hṛd-deśe means "in the heart." So sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe, so that means beginning from the small microbe up to the Brahmā, all the living entities, they have got heart.

Sometimes we find a small full-stop-like creature moving on the page of the . . . on a leaf of the book. You cannot see it, but it is moving. That small creature also has got heart. But is there any scientist to find out how he is moving, how he has got leg, how he has got hands, how he has got . . .? Any anatomy, is there any anatomy or physiological science to test? Here is our Dr. Mukerjee, sitting. Can you find out the heart in that small particle-like animal? It is not possible. But there is. But there is—otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa says sarva-bhūtānām, "all living entities"?

So our so-called scientific advancement always remains indefinitely imperfect, because it is not possible to understand the whole thing as it is. But we can understand from Bhagavad-gītā that there is heart. Now if you go to the laboratory to find out where is the heart of the small creatures, you have no capacity, neither you have instrument. No. Therefore your knowledge will always be imperfect, because this process of acquiring knowledge is always imperfect. But this knowledge, as we hear from Bhagavad-gītā that there is heart in every living entity, this is perfect knowledge.

Therefore there are two kinds of processes to receive knowledge. The Vedic process says avaroha-panthā, descending process. And the material process is āroha-panthā, ascending process, research. This is āroha-panthā, find out whether this, what is this, what is this, neti, neti, neti, neti, analysis, dissection, and so many. This is called āroha-panthā, trying to ascend by dint of one's material knowledge.

Then spiritual knowledge, you cannot have perfect knowledge . . . why spiritual knowledge? Even material knowledge. Now there are so many attempts to go to the moon planet. They are trying to go there by so many ascending processes, Sputnik, airplanes and so many things. Still, we do not know what is this planet?

But you read Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you understand immediately what is this moon planet. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī (BG 10.21). Śaśī means this moon planet. You immediately understand that this moon planet is one of the stars. Just like the constitutional position of other stars, you understand the moon is like that. And they are searching after whether in the moon planet there is life or not, there is living condition or not. But you open Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll find the description of the moon planet, how they are living, what is the constitution of the living creatures there. The soma-rasa, you have heard this word. The soma-rasa is the beverage in the moon planet. So everything is there. And who can go there, and how one can go there. So this is perfect knowledge, to hear from the authorities. Otherwise . . .

So even for material things we have to hear from authority. Just like this moon planet or sun planet or any planet, you can understand. The Brahmaloka also. Brahmaloka, that is also described in the Bhagavad . . . brahmaloka means the topmost planet within this universe. You'll find in this Bhagavad-gītā that, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Brahmaṇo viduḥ. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). These things are there. You can understand simply by hearing.

The whole process is hearing. You don't require any education; you don't require any scientific qualification, this or that. Simply if you kindly come here and hear this Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you become completely learned and completely self-realized. Simply. Sthāne sthitāḥ (SB 10.14.3). Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended this process. We are trying to open so many branches just to give facility to the poor people who do not know what is the end of life, what is the objective of human life, how one can become perfect. These knowledges, these informations, are there. We are trying to distribute. It is not dogmatic, it is all scientific.

Now there are so many things that it is not possible even to understand by the modern process of scientific experimental knowledge. It is not possible. And what to speak of about God? You cannot know even material objects by your so-called scientific study and research. You simply . . . you can know little more, that's all. Not complete. So Vedānta-sūtra advises, therefore, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet (Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma parva 5.22). Things which are beyond your imagination, beyond your reach, beyond your thoughts, beyond your words, beyond your sense perception, how you can understand them by your experimental so-called scientific research? Acintya. Acintya means inconceivable. Inconceivable.

Now we cannot conceive even these material things. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Brahmaṇaḥ means of Brahmā and the living creatures there in the Brahmaloka, the highest, topmost planet. So in that planet the people, or the living entities, who are living there, their duration of life is like this. What is that? Sahasra-yuga-paryantam.

Now yuga means these four yugas: Satya-yuga, Tretā-yuga, Dvāpara-yuga and Kali-yuga. So these four yugas . . . satya-yuga means eighteen lakhs of years. Means eighteen hundred thousands of years. And Tretā-yuga means twelve hundred thousands of years. And Dvāpara-yuga means eight hundred thousands of years.

And Kali-yuga means four hundred thousands of years. This is the rough calculation. Eighteen, then twelve, then eight, plus four. How many years? Eighteen plus twelve becomes thirty, and thirty plus eight, thirty-eight, and four. That means forty-three hundred thousands of years makes one yuga, divya-yuga. So such one thousand. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam (BG 8.17). That means forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand, ahar yat. That calculation is one day of the inhabitants of the Brahmaloka.

So we cannot imagine, you see, that how long year. Such hundred years they live. That is their twelve hours. Similarly, twelve hours night. Similarly, thirty days, one month. Similarly, twelve months equal to one year. Such hundred years they live. So we cannot imagine even, even in the material world, how long a living entity can live even in this material world. So these are acintya. Acintya means beyond our conception. And what to speak of the spiritual world? We cannot calculate even anything of the material world perfectly.

Therefore the best thing is our process, Vedic process, is to receive knowledge by the ascending (descending) process. Kṛṣṇa has come from His kingdom, kingdom of God, the Kṛṣṇaloka. And it will be explained in the next verses:

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

(BG 4.7)

He comes and He sends His own, I mean to say, confidential sons or servants to give us information of the spiritual world of God, or everything, both material and spiritual. This knowledge is perfect knowledge. We have to receive from the authority. In the material world also.

Now some students, they come here to learn scientific knowledge because it is understood Western countries, they're advanced in scientific knowledge. So why they come? Because they think that Western scientists are authorities. The process is there: to receive knowledge from authority. Similarly, some serious students, they go to India, they try to search out some saintly persons to receive knowledge about the spiritual world.

Actually, it is a fact that if you want to know about spiritual knowledge then you have to know it from India. That is recommended by one Chinese gentleman; I forget his name. His book is recommended as study book in the New York University. He has plainly written that if you have to understand the science of religion, then you have to go to India. He has clearly said that.

So anyway, here Kṛṣṇa is imparting knowledge to Arjuna: the condition of the living entity, both Himself and the ordinary living entity. God and living entity, individual living entity . . . God is also individual. He is also living entity. He's not dead. Just like in your country, they have, some of them, they have taken it granted that God is dead. Is it not? Somebody says: "God is dead." So God cannot be dead. If I am not dead, if I am eternal, how God can be dead? He is also eternal. So these things are very nicely explained.

Tāny ahaṁ veda. Kṛṣṇa says that "I know My past, present and future, and you do not know your past, present and future." That is the difference. "And because I know My past, present and future, therefore I can say that so many, so many millions and billions of years ago, I spoke this truth of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun god Vivasvān." . . . (indistinct) . . . he remembered, that because Kṛṣṇa says that, "Millions and billions of years ago I told this truth to sun god," Kṛṣṇa, just to clear . . . Arjuna, just to clear Kṛṣṇa's position, he is putting this question that, "Kṛṣṇa, both You and me, we were born some few years ago. How I can believe that You told this truth to sun god?"

In answer to that question, Kṛṣṇa says that bahūni me vyatītāni janmāni tava cārjuna: "Both you and Me had many, many births, or appearance and disappearance, in the past. I remember all those things as it is, without any mistake. But you do not know."

Eka evāham eko 'pi san bahudhā yo 'vabhati ity Adi śruty-uktāni nitya-siddhāni bahūni rūpāni vaiduryavad-ātmani dadhanaḥ pura rūpantareṇa taṁ pratyupadiṣṭavān iti bhavenaha bhagavān.

Now we should not consider that because the difference between God and the living entities, that our different appearance and disappearance is different. Just like in this life I may be an Indian, you may be an American. But next life, we do not know what body we are going to get next life. Because in the material existence the body and the soul is different. But in the spiritual existence . . .

Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa's body and Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent, because it is completely spiritual. Our body, in the present condition . . . when we are free from this material condition, we also get. That is explained in the Bhagavad . . . mad-bhāva upaja. Mad-bhāva means "exactly like My body." When one is liberated from material conditions, then he also gets exactly the same sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

In the Bhāgavata you'll find that when Ajāmila was claimed by the Viṣṇudūta, when they came from Vaikuṇṭha, they were exactly like Viṣṇu. They had four hands, the same features, same color, and same ornaments and same dress. So those who are promoted to Vaikuṇṭha, they get four hands like Nārāyaṇa. But in the Kṛṣṇaloka, Kṛṣṇa is two-handed. So even in this material world there is one personality, Brahmā, he has got four hands. So we can get also the same body, the same features, the same opulence. Sālokya, sārṣṭi, sāmīpya, sālokya, there are different kinds of liberation. Or sāyujya.

(break) . . . he is saying that Kṛṣṇa has no change of body. He is giving the example just like a diamond or a valuable stone, you'll find a different color. Sometimes you'll find red, sometimes you'll find green, sometimes you'll find some other color, the same stone. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa when appears, that is explained in the Bhāgavatam, He appears in different colors: sometimes in blackish color, sometimes in reddish color. These are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And in this age Kṛṣṇa appeared in the yellow color, Lord Caitanya. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

kṛṣṇa-varṇaṁ tviṣākṛṣṇaṁ

sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam

yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair

yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ

(SB 11.5.32)

This is explained, authority. There are many other authoritative statements about Lord Caitanya's becoming Kṛṣṇa Himself. Idānīṁ kṛṣṇatām. Śuklo raktas tathā pīta idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ (SB 10.8.13). When Kṛṣṇa appeared, the nāma-karaṇa, when Gargamuni was ascertaining His name, he said that "This child, He has other colors," śuklo raktas tathā pīta. Pīta means yellow. That means some other Kali-yuga He appeared as Lord Caitanya. Idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ: "Therefore He should be named Kṛṣṇa." These things are there.

So Kṛṣṇa's appearance does not mean that He has become different. The nice example is set here by Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa: just like a valuable stone. You take your hand . . . in your hand, you find sometimes yellow, sometimes red, sometimes white, like that. So, tava ceti mat-sakhatvat tavanti janmāni tavāpi abhut. "And because you are My eternal friend, so whenever I appear, you also appear."

Just like, those who are personal associates, whenever the chief boss goes, his personal assistants also go. That is natural. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa comes, just like when a king goes somewhere, it does not mean he is going alone. He goes with all his paraphernalia, secretaries, minister and commander-in-chief and so many others. Similarly, whenever Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not come . . .

Just like in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, aham eva asam agre (SB 2.9.33): "I was in the beginning." The impersonalists interpret that "I was, personally," but that is not the fact. Nārāyaṇa, as soon as Nārāyaṇa was, means Nārāyaṇa was there with . . . not was there, Nārāyaṇa is there always with His all paraphernalia. And that is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakaṁ sadā paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1). Dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakam. The kingdom of God is freed from illusion. This world, this material world, is full of illusion. But dhāmnā svena nirasta-kuhakam. So God's kingdom, or Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, is spiritual. Everything will be explained one after another.

So Kṛṣṇa says: "Because you are My constant companion, therefore, along with Me, you are there, but you also . . . you forget. That is the difference." We'll explain next night. Is there any question?

Indian guest: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He appeared . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: There is a book, Gaura-gaṇoddeśa-dīpikā. So somebody says that Arjuna appeared as Rāmānanda Rāya. There is statement who came, who is who. That you can find out in the book which is known as Gaura-gaṇoddeśa-dīpikā. Gaura-gaṇa, the associates of Lord Caitanya, and who were there, they, in the past. That is mentioned.

Pradyumna: What kind of manifestation is time, of Kṛṣṇa, kāla? Kāla, time. How is time a feature of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Time has no influence over Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: But time is a feature of Kṛṣṇa, a manifestation of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Everything is feature of Kṛṣṇa, so time is naturally a feature of Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: If we measure time in this world by our material bodies and yet there is no time in the spiritual sky, but there is difference of type.

Prabhupāda: No. The time influence is not there. Time is eternal. But here the influence of time is acting. Just like this table is new, but by the influence of time it will gradually become old. Therefore there is no influence of time. Every potency of Kṛṣṇa is there, but their activities as we find here in this material world, they are not there.

Pradyumna: Different time is when the spirit, place, different time and place?

Prabhupāda: No. No. That is the difference between spiritual world and material world. Practically the all variegatedness are there, but without any inebriety. That is the difference.

Janārdana: When Kṛṣṇa appears in each of the four yugas, does each appearance of svayaṁ bhagavān, personally He appears?

Prabhupāda: As the necessity of the time. Sometimes He appears as svayaṁ bhagavān; sometimes He appears as plenary expansion. But svayaṁ bhagavān or plenary expansion, there is no difference. Just like in the present age, Kṛṣṇa has appeared as holy name. So we should not consider that holy name of Kṛṣṇa is less important than Kṛṣṇa. The holy name of Kṛṣṇa is as powerful as Kṛṣṇa. Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis tatrārpitā (CC Antya 20.16, Śikṣāṣṭaka 2). All the potencies of Kṛṣṇa is there. As soon as we are able to chant pure name . . . pure name means offenseless. We have discussed several times that there are ten kinds of offenses in the matter of chanting this holy name. And if we be careful to avoid those four . . . ten kinds of offenses, then pure, we can appreciate the purity of Kṛṣṇa's name. Kṛṣṇa's name is always pure. Nitya-mukta-śuddha-abhinnatva-nāma.

It is also our appreciation. Just like Kṛṣṇa is everywhere. Here, of course, in the temple or anywhere, Kṛṣṇa is there, but we have no appreciation. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is very kind to appear in this age as holy name so that we can very easily approach Kṛṣṇa simply by chanting. But we have got many misgivings. Otherwise, so many people there are, they inquire, "What is God?" And if you say, "Here is God," they won't believe you. It is their appreciation. But God is there in His name, "Kṛṣṇa."

So one has to prepare the receptive process. Otherwise, God is here. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11). Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Now I want to see Kṛṣṇa, but I want to keep my identity as member of this family or member of this nation or father of this child or husband of this wife. So I keep myself in the material condition, and I want to see God—that is offense. So we have to first of all become clear of all designation.

sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ

tat-paratvena nirmalam

hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-

sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate

(CC Madhya 19.170)

So Kṛṣṇa is there, His potency is there, everything is there, always available, easily available, provided we are prepared to receive Him. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is already there by His name. Nāma-rūpe kali-kāle kṛṣṇa-avatāra (CC Adi 17.22). Kṛṣṇa has descended by His name. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached the chanting, that you can become . . . but the profit is that even if you are in offense, even if you do not have the power of appreciation, because Kṛṣṇa is all-potential, simply by chanting in any condition of life you become purified. But the more you have got the power of appreciation, the more you get benefit. But immediate benefit is in whatever condition you may be, if you simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then the benefit begins immediately, without any moment.

You have got any question? Yes?

Mahāpuruṣa: I'm not sure if I understand yet. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is svayaṁ bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahāpuruṣa: And the appearances of Kṛṣṇa in all the other yugas is also called svayaṁ bhagavān? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). The list of different incarnations in different ages, they are enlisted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and it is summarized in the last verse, ete. Ete means "all these." Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. Aṁśa means "plenary partial expansion." Kalā, "expansion of the expansion." There are many expansions directly from Kṛṣṇa and there are many expansions who are expansions from the expansions. So direct expansion is called aṁśa, and expansion of the expansion is called kalā.

Just like Mahā-Viṣṇu. Mahā-Viṣṇu is expansion of the expansion. The direct expansion is Baladeva. The next expansion is Saṅkarṣaṇa. The next expansion is the catur-vyūha. In this way, Viṣṇu, Mahā-Viṣṇu, is expansion of the expansion, kalā. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Yasya kalā-viśeṣaḥ. Kalā means expansion of the expansion. That Mahā-Viṣṇu is kalā of Kṛṣṇa. Govindam Adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi . . .

So not necessarily all appearances of Kṛṣṇa is direct or He, Himself. There are expansions and expansion of the expansion. That is clearly explained. Ete ca aṁśa-kalāḥ. Some of them are direct, some of them are indirect. But this word "Kṛṣṇa" is, kṛṣṇas tu, He is but the Supreme Person. Bhagavān svayam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Guest: We are expansions of Rādhā? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No. Rādhā is the internal potency; we are marginal potency. Of course, originally, in that sense, everything is Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. But even there are expansions . . . that is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . . acintya-bhedābheda. We are always simultaneously one and different. Always. We should remember.

We are, because we are expansion of Kṛṣṇa, we are expansion of Rādhā also, because Rādhā is also expansion of Kṛṣṇa. But still, different. That is the philosophy: one and different simultaneously. Acintya-bhedābheda. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is inconceivable simultaneously one and different. Energy.

This will be explained in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. The energy and the energetic is the same. Śakti-śaktimator abheda. Just like sun and the sunshine, they are the same. There is no difference. But the molecules of the sunshine particles, that is not equal to the sun. These truths we shall always remember. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvāḥ. Therefore these are inconceivable. We are simultaneously one with Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā, and at the same time different.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not created; expanded. Kṛṣṇa expanded. Created means that it comes to the historical point. But na jāyate. Expanded. The actual word is expanded. Eko bahu syāt. He expanded Himself in so many. Not created. Expand means the things are there, now it is expanded. Just like the sun and sunshine. Sunshine is not created. Wherever there is sun, there is sunshine. But if you get sunshine in the morning, if you say: "Now the sunshine is created," that is a mistake. It is our misconception. The sun and the sunshine are always there. It is a question of appearance and disappearance, that's all.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Everything expansion of Kṛṣṇa, without any exception. Some of them are expansion of His material energy, some of them are expansion of His spiritual energy, some of them are expansion of His marginal energy. So everything expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So because everything expansion of Kṛṣṇa, therefore nothing but Kṛṣṇa. But still they are different. This is the whole basic principle of philosophy: simultaneously one and different.

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . Mahā-Viṣṇu?

Prabhupāda: No, Mahā-Viṣṇu is not direct expansion.

Devotee: Expansion of the expansion?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You can read there. When there is incarnation, in the First Canto, I think Third Chapter. There you'll find it.

Mahāpuruṣa: If the living entity is in the material world and he's an expansion of the marginal energy, then he's . . . and he can purify himself and become eligible to enter into the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, but can he still fall as an expansion of the marginal energy? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Marginal energy . . . just like the sunshine is always there. Sometimes it is covered by cloud. When the cloud is cleared, then it is directly touching sunshine. Similarly, we are always marginal potency. Now the māyā cloud has covered me. As soon as māyā is over, we are in direct . . . I am in touch with Kṛṣṇa. We are already in touch with Kṛṣṇa.

When the sunshine is covered by the cloud, it does not mean that the . . . there is no sunshine. It has become dim. Similarly, we spirit, individual spirit souls, we are bright. But due to the contact of māyā, we are now not free, not free to exhibit our real life, spiritual life. The whole process is how to get free from the clutches of māyā; then full-fledged spiritual life we get immediately. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).

All right, let us have kīrtana.

(Prabhupāda leads kīrtana and govinda jaya jaya) (prema-dhvani) (devotees offer obeisances) (end)