730227 - Lecture SB 01.01.23 - Jakarta

Lectures by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730227SB-JAKARTA - February 27, 1973 - 68:27 Minutes

(kīrtana) Prabhupāda: If there are people who cannot understand Hindi, so what is the decision? Boliye Ram, Ramji boliye. (You say Ramji.) . . . (indistinct) . . . Hindi or English?

Amogha: English.

Prabhupāda: English is all right? There are many foreigners.

Amogha: Yes. I think there are many foreigners, they will understand.

Prabhupāda:

brūhi yogeśvare kṛṣṇe

brahmaṇye dharma-varmaṇi

svāṁ kāṣṭhām adhunopete

dharmaḥ kaṁ śaraṇaṁ gataḥ

(SB 1.1.23)

This is a question made by the great saintly persons who assembled in Naimiṣāraṇya to hear about bhāgavata-dharma. Real dharma, as I have already explained yesterday . . . dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma is not a faith. It is a fact, characteristic of the human being. Bhāgavata means in relationship with God, Bhagavān, bhāgavata-tattva. This word . . . from bhāgavata-tattva there is bhāgavata. The root is the bhaga, and from that root this word is derived, bhāgavata. It is pertaining to the Personality of Godhead and His devotees. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the book of knowledge which is dealing with the Supreme Personality of Godhead with His different devotees. That is called Bhāgavata.

There are two kinds of bhāgavata. One Bhāgavata is this book, book Bhāgavata. This book Bhāgavatam is the sound incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And there is another bhāgavata, who is spiritual master or the Vaiṣṇava, a devotee of the Lord. He's also called bhāgavata. A great devotee is called mahā-bhāgavata. So there are two kinds of bhāgavatas. The mercy representation of God is book Bhāgavata . . . no. Sound vibration, sound representation of God is from the book Bhāgavatam. And the mercy representation of God is called the devotee bhāgavata.

So here the question is that "After Kṛṣṇa's departure . . ." Kṛṣṇa lived or stayed in this planet for 125 years. After that, He went back to own abode. Here the question is, brūhi yogeśvare kṛṣṇe. Yogeśvara means the controller of all mystic power. yoga is mystic power, and Kṛṣṇa is the master, or the controller, of all mystic powers. Therefore He's called Yogeśvara. Lord Śiva, he's called Yogīśvara. He's the best amongst the yogīs. And Kṛṣṇa is called Yogeśvara. This yogeśvara word is also in the Bhagavad-gītā: yatra yogeśvara hari. So Kṛṣṇa is the controller and master of all mystic power; therefore He's called Yogeśvara. Brūhi, "Kindly let us know," yogeśvare kṛṣṇe, "when Kṛṣṇa went back to His abode, Goloka Vṛndāvana," yogeśvare kṛṣṇe brahmaṇye. Brāhmaṇa, brahmaṇya means He's the original brahminical culture or He's worshiped by the brāhmaṇas.

Viṣṇu, or Lord Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by the topmost class of men. So in the human society the topmost class of men are considered the brāhmaṇas. As it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The human society must be divided into four classes of men. That is perfect human society. First-class men, second-class men, third-class men and the fourth-class men. And after these fourth-class men, they're all fifth class, pañcama.

So the first-class men are the brāhmaṇas, qualified brāhmaṇas, śamo damaḥ titikṣava, ārjava. And the second-class men are the kṣatriyas. The third-class men are the vaiśyas. And the fourth-class men, they are called śūdras. And the fifth class, below the fifth class, they are called pañcama or caṇḍāla. This is Vedic division of human society.

So Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by the brāhmaṇas—therefore He's called brahmaṇye, or who gives protection to the brahminical culture. When Kṛṣṇa is offered obeisances, respectful obeisances, He's offered like this:

namo brahmaṇya-devāya

go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca

jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya

govindāya namo namaḥ

(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.19.65)

So Kṛṣṇa, first business is go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca: He's the protector of cows and brāhmaṇas. Why? Why He's specially giving? Nowadays it has become a fashion, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, to give protection to the daridras. That is good idea. But why you should bring Nārāyaṇa amongst the daridras? Nārāyaṇa is not daridra. Nārāyaṇa is the husband of Lakṣmī, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. Not only one Lakṣmī, millions of Lakṣmīs. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29).

Surabhīr abhipālaya. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam. And Kṛṣṇa is worshiped by many, many thousands of Lakṣmīs, these gopīs. The gopīs, they're all Lakṣmīs, expansion of goddess of fortune. They're not ordinary. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyā.

Here in this material world, everyone is worshiping Lakṣmī, or goddess of fortune. In the beginning of the year everyone worships Lakṣmī so that Lakṣmī may be pleased and money may come. But here we are worshiping Lakṣmī—of course, we should—but there in the spiritual world, not only one Lakṣmī, but thousands of Lakṣmīs are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa's position. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama. And they're worshiping with all respect. So Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu or Nārāyaṇa, They cannot be daridra. This is a misconception. This is manufactured concoction, daridra-nārāyaṇa. How Nārāyaṇa can be daridra? He's worshiped by many, many thousands of Lakṣmīs. How He can be daridra?

So Kṛṣṇa is brahmaṇya-deva and is surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). The surabhi cows . . . why they're called surabhi cows? Surabhi cows mean you can take that milk from surabhi cows as much as you require and as many times as you like. Here in the material world the cows are there, you can take milk from the cows utmost twice, and not as much as you like; as much as she likes to deliver, you can take.

But surabhi cows, because they are in the spiritual world, you can draw as much milk as you can, and as many times as you can. But such cows are taken . . . what is called, tendered by Lord Kṛṣṇa, surabhīr abhipālayantam. These are the description in the Vedic literature about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not an imagination. As the Māyāvādī philosophers, they think of imagining the form of God—Kṛṣṇa is not that type of God. He's described in the Vedas, Kṛṣṇa: kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan

nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu

kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo

govindam ādi-puruṣam . . .

(Bs. 5.39)

Kṛṣṇa is the parama-pumān, the Supreme Personality. And rāmādi-mūrtiṣu, an incarnation—Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, there are thousands and thousands of incarnations. Here also Kṛṣṇa's incarnation.

So here it is said when Kṛṣṇa departed from this world to His abode, because He's dharma-varmaṇi . . . His whole existence is from dharma, religious principles. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7): whenever there are discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles . . . yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, abhyutthānam adharmasya. One side, if religion is neglected, then irreligious principles will develop. That is the nature of everything. If you neglect this side, this side will be prominent.

So Kṛṣṇa also says that dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, "I come, I appear, My only business is to reestablish the religious principles." Kṛṣṇa does not come to this planet for making some money. He has got enough money, because He's worshiped by the goddess of fortune. His business, coming down on this planet—to reestablish the religious principles. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya.

And what is that religious principle? The religious principle is not man-made. Just like we have manufactured so many religious principles: "This is Hindu dharma," "This is Muslim dharma," "This is Christian dharma," and this is this, this is that. So many. Kṛṣṇa does not come to reestablish the principles of this man-made religion. No. He has nothing to do. Because they are manufactured, concocted by imperfect men, they are not religious. The religious system means, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the principles which is given by God Himself. That is religion. You cannot imagine. Just like already I have explained: you cannot make law at home that, "I am a big man. I make my own law." That you can do. You may go on amongst some of your friends or your servants, but that law will not be accepted by everyone. But the law given by God, that will be accepted by everyone. Just like law given by the state government is accepted by everyone. So religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. The principles of religion means which is given by God.

So what is that religion? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā very clearly: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is religion. Your man-made, so-called, manufactured religion you give up . . . (indistinct) . . . it has got some temporary value. It has no permanent value. The permanent value of religion is that religion which is given by God. And that is . . . what is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ: you simply surrender unto God.

When I speak of "Kṛṣṇa," we mean God. And Kṛṣṇa is the best name of God. Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." God must be all-attractive. God cannot be attractive for a few men or few . . . for a . . . by a community. No. God must be attractive by everyone. That is God. So Kṛṣṇa, by His opulences, by His strength, by His beauty, by His knowledge, by His renouncement—everything complete. Therefore He's God. You study. These are the attractive features. If one is very rich, he's attractive. If one is very powerful, he's attractive. If one is very beautiful, then he's attractive. If one is very wise, he's attractive. If one is in the renounced order of life, first-class, he's attractive. So Kṛṣṇa has all these opulences, therefore He's accepted as God—not superficially—by great, great saintly persons.

When Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12), it is not that because he was Kṛṣṇa's friend, therefore, out of his sentiments he accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He accepted on the authority of the Vedas. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So according to Vedic system, all the sages, all the great saintly persons, all the great kings, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are many instances. Now here it is inquired by the sages, saintly persons, from Sūta Gosvāmī:

brūhi yogeśvare kṛṣṇe

brahmaṇye dharma-varmaṇi

svāṁ kāṣṭhām adhunopete

dharmaḥ kaṁ śaraṇaṁ gataḥ

(SB 1.1.23)

"After the departure of Kṛṣṇa . . . so long Kṛṣṇa was here, the religious principles were being properly executed. Now, after His departure, who has taken charge of this religious department?" This is the question. "Who has taken charge of this religious department?" This is the question by the great sages, saintly persons at the Naimiṣāraṇya. You have heard the name of Naimiṣāraṇya. Then this is the last śloka of the First Chapter of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then in the next chapter, Second Chapter, vyāsa uvāca, Vyāsadeva said:

iti sampraśna-saṁhṛṣṭo

viprāṇāṁ raumaharṣaṇiḥ

pratipūjya vacas teṣāṁ

pravaktum upacakrame

(SB 1.2.1)

The Sūta Gosvāmī was very much engladdened that they had questioned about Kṛṣṇa. The question was, "Who has taken charge of the religious system after departure of Kṛṣṇa from this planet?" This is the question. So because the question was about Kṛṣṇa, therefore Sūta Gosvāmī was explaining bhāgavata-dharma in that great assembly. He became very much engladdened, "Ah, you have put questions about Kṛṣṇa. Very nice." Because if we simply question about Kṛṣṇa and hear the answers about Kṛṣṇa, our life becomes very . . . (indistinct) . . . life. This is the process. To become spiritually advanced means, "Just try to question about Kṛṣṇa and try to understand the answers about Kṛṣṇa." Then your life is. It is so nice.

So we can make so many questions—intelligent questions must be, of course—about . . . (indistinct) . . . and the answers are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā. So every effort of our . . . (indistinct) . . . this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, that not just in this meeting we shall discuss about Kṛṣṇa, but at every home, every family, you can sit down together at the end of their work and simply question about Kṛṣṇa and try to understand the answers. The books are already there. Answers are already there.

So this is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is simple. Because people are contaminated by the three qualities. This material world is running on under the influence of three qualities of the modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. There are three qualities.

(break) Therefore you do not find one kind of living entity, because there are three qualities, and again multiplied three by three, it becomes nine qualities, then again multiplied nine into nine, then it becomes eighty-one qualities. Just like an expert artist, he's using three colors: blue, red and yellow. You mix the colors and he will manifest thousands of colors. Thousands of colors.

So actually the basic principle of this material world is the three qualities: sattva-guṇa, raja-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Now they are mixed up. Here you cannot find out purely sattva-guṇa. Sattva-guṇa is the topmost quality in this material world. But here in material world also, you cannot find pure sattva-guṇa. When you come to the pure stage of sattva-guṇa, that is transcendental stage, spiritual life. Pure sattva-guṇa means there is no more attack by the other two guṇas. That is pure, śuddha-sattva. That is called śuddha-sattva, pure goodness. In that stage one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

First of all one has to come to the goodness quality platform. Then he has to transcend that quality of . . . (indistinct) . . . and that position means no more attacked by the other two lower product qualities, namely passion and ignorance. So sattvaṁ viśuddhaṁ vāsudeva sarve. That stage is called vasudeva. Vasudeva means that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, appears. Just like Kṛṣṇa's father's name was Vasudeva.

So he was very . . . iti sampraśna saṁhṛṣṭo viprāṇāṁ raumaharṣaṇam. Sūta Gosvāmī, he's called Romaharṣaṇa. His father's name was Roma . . . (indistinct) . . . therefore he's called Romaharṣaṇa. Pratipūjya, when they inquired . . . just like we say: "Thank you very much." So pratipūjya, he also offered his respectful obeisances, put very nice proposal, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa question he asked. It is very nice. Pratipūjya vacas teṣāṁ pravaktum upacakrame: began to speak, began to answer the question of the sages that "Unto whom the charge of religious principle has been given after the departure of Kṛṣṇa from this planet?"

So he's speaking again, nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya (SB 1.2.4)—these are all formalities—"Before speaking anything one should remember the mercy of Nārāyaṇa." Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam. Vyāsadeva is the guru of Vedic knowledge. Therefore Vyāsadeva or his representative, they are . . . therefore, according to our system, when you observe the birthday anniversary of spiritual master it is called Vyāsa-pūjā. Actually the worship is going to Vyāsadeva, and his representative is accepting the pūjā. The honor offered to the spiritual master is transferred to Vyāsadeva, because Vyāsadeva is the original guru. Therefore it is stated, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam. Sarasvatī-devi, knowledge, or the goddess of education, devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsam tato jayam udīrayet. After offering respect to Nārāyaṇa, then Vyāsadeva, Sarasvatī-devi.

So he's answering the question, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham (SB 1.2.5): "My dear sages, great saintly persons, I'm very much honored that you have inquired so nice question," sādhu. Sādhu means . . . (indistinct) . . . that is the explanation . . . (indistinct) . . . that is called sādhu. So this question about Kṛṣṇa is sādhu because Kṛṣṇa is discussed among the sādhus, not amongst the rogues. And who is a sādhu? That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30), he is sādhu. Bhajate mām ānanda-bhāk. Anyone who is purely devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he's sādhu, not anyone else. Sādhu he's mahātmā.

That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty-ananya manaso (BG 9.13). He's mahātmā, who is unflinchingly, without any deviation, engaged in the service of the Lord. He's called mahātmā. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtiṁ āśritāḥ. They are not under the influence of this material qualities. Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. They're under the influence of the spiritual energy. Therefore they're called daivīm.

So what is the symptom that one is under the spiritual energy? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk: always engaged in the service of the Lord. That is the symptom. Therefore anything about Kṛṣṇa, that is sādhu. One who is questioning, he's also sādhu. One who is answering, he's also sādhu. And what to speak of one who is always engaged in the service of the Lord. He must be a sādhu. Sadhava sarva-bhūtānām. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām . . . sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇāḥ (SB 3.25.21). Sādhu means he's tolerant. He's tolerant, titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ, very merciful.

Now these persons, because they are sādhus, they are so much tolerant. Anyone who's preaching about God, they're sādhu, so they have to meet so many dangerous persons. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He was killed, but he faced . . . Haridāsa Ṭhākura, oh, he was so much tortured. He was a Muhammadan, and he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. The Muhammadan magistrate called him, "Why you are chanting this Hindu Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?" Haridāsa Ṭhākura replied, "Sir, what is the wrong there? Just as so many Hindus, they have also become Muhammadans, so suppose I have become a Hindu. So what is the wrong there?" "Oh, you are talking before me? . . . (indistinct) . . . cane." He was ordered to be caned in twenty-two bazaars, because he was chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Similarly Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was a devotee, and his father chastised him so many ways.

So as soon as we become a sādhu, there is some danger to be tortured by the asādhu. Just like in our this movement, there are so many . . . (indistinct) . . . somebody is preaching that this movement is the hippie movement. The hippie movement is discussed in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā? Just see the foolish propaganda. In India they manufactured a film, so much propaganda against this movement. We have to meet such enemies. What can be done? This is the nature of this world. As soon as you have become a sādhu, a devotee of the Lord, you will create so many enemies—Communists, Nationalists—but we don't care. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja didn't care, even his father was so . . . (indistinct) . . . Haridāsa Ṭhākura did not care.

So therefore those who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, despite all kinds of impediments, they are . . . (indistinct) . . . sādhus. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Kṛṣṇa said: "Nobody is dearer than him who is preaching," because he has to face so many impediments, so many obstructions. And he has to face, and he has to still . . . (indistinct) . . . therefore it is said, sādhu, munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham (SB 1.2.5): "Oh, your question is very nice." Sādhu. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. "We have put this question, but it is loka-maṅgalam." When you discuss this question and answer, it becomes very much auspicious to the whole human society. Loka-maṅgalam. Bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam. Why loka-maṅgalam? Yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno, because it was questions about Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is loka-maṅgalam, auspicious. Anyone who will hear about Kṛṣṇa . . . how is that simply by hearing . . . (break) . . . hear. Hearing is also so auspicious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). If you hear, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ . . . when Kṛṣṇa sees that you are hearing about Him, immediately you become pious.

Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. To hear about Kṛṣṇa, to speak about Kṛṣṇa, to glorify about Kṛṣṇa, they are all pious activities, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. So if we begin simply hearing about Kṛṣṇa, talking about Kṛṣṇa, then you become pious. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. He's simply making the opportunity why the . . . (indistinct) . . . the individual souls are trying to approach Him. That is the yoga system. yoga system means the jīvātmā, the soul, individual soul, tries to understand the Supersoul, Paramātmā. That is yoga system.

It is not . . . it is mistaken idea that the Paramātmā and the ātmā, jīvātmā, is the same. They are same in quality, but Paramātmā is worshipable and jīvātmā is the worshiper. Paramātmā is the predominator and jīvātmā is the predominated. To understand this philosophy, that is yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yad yogi. Yoginaḥ paśyanti. That means the seer. The seer is different from the person who is seen. Yad yoginaḥ paśyanti. The yoga system means that when the jīvātmā concentrates his mind, dhyānāvasthita, by meditation . . . dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā, by the mind, paśyanti taṁ yoginam. This is the position of the Supreme Lord. He can be seen by the yoga practice.

The yoga practice means . . . first-class yoga practice is bhakti-yoga practice. By bhakti-yoga practice, that is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. There are many yogīs. Out of many thousands of such yogīs.

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatena āntarātmanā

śraddhavān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

He's first-class yogī who is always seeing Kṛṣṇa within the heart. And who can see? Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Premāñjana. If you develop love for Kṛṣṇa, then you'll see Kṛṣṇa within your heart always, twenty-four hours. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena, when your eyes are smeared with the ointment of love of God, you realize . . . (indistinct) . . . see God. You see God.

This morning I have explained, you see God. It is not very, I mean to say, impossible. It is possible by everyone, even by child, what to speak of grown-up. Simply you have to follow the instruction. Just like Kṛṣṇa said how to see Him, how to practice to see Him:

raso 'ham apsu kaunteya

prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ

śabdaḥ ke . . .

praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu

śabdaḥ ke pauruṣaṁ nṛṣu

(BG 7.8)

Kṛṣṇa said that, "If you find difficulty to see Me, then try to see Me in the water, or any liquid thing." That's all. In every liquid, the water is there. That liquid, there is some water. Now you taste. That is . . . (indistinct) . . . even the drunkard, they have developed a kind of rasa, a kind of taste, in the wine. So Kṛṣṇa says: "All right, when you taste wine, you see you taste Kṛṣṇa. I am . . . (indistinct) . . ." So who cannot see Kṛṣṇa? Everyone can see.

Even greatest drunkard can see Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of a devotee. Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. If you are tasting something . . . it is just like the drunkard, they take wine. "All right, that taste is Kṛṣṇa." To practice this, not to speak of the ordinary man, they're drinking water, but those who are drinking wine . . . if you think, "Now I am drinking wine, I am tasting; it is very nice taste. This is Kṛṣṇa." Then one day he'll come out a great devotee.

So where is the difficulty to see Kṛṣṇa? There is no difficulty. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). That Kṛṣṇa is so nice that every stage of life, if you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness your life will be sublime. (break) . . . (indistinct) . . . padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Therefore . . . (indistinct) . . . to hear about Kṛṣṇa, that is the only thing.

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

(SB 1.2.17)

Kṛṣṇa is there within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). As soon as you become little sincere to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then everything becomes . . . (indistinct) . . . automatically. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(aside) Any questions?

Amogha: So any questions? Anyone have a question they can ask?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Amogha: He asks that you speak something about reincarnation . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . just like you are preaching . . . (indistinct) . . . but you are dreaming and doing something else, that is reincarnation . . . (indistinct) . . . that you are actual . . . (indistinct) . . . when your dream is over, you forget about the . . . (indistinct) . . . activities, you engage in another activities. So this is reincarnation. At night you are reincarnated in a different way . . . in the daytime, you are relying to . . . (indistinct). Similarly when . . . (indistinct) . . . you are working in somewhere and as soon as this body is finished, you enter into another body work in a different way. This is reincarnation. Is there any difficulty to understand? Just like when you are child, you are working in a different way that has now become our dream, now working very long time. Amid when you become old . . . (indistinct). So as long we are . . . (indistinct) . . . different body . . . (indistinct). This is called punar janma, reincarnation. Is that clear? (indistinct) . . . Is it clear? Yes. Thank you . . . (indistinct) . . . you are from?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . as soon as he thinks that this is my house, we take it away and it is another house. Is it not . . . (indistinct) . . . but do you think you moral science know everything about soul? . . . (indistinct) . . . then you come to the perfect knowledge and then you will talk. Not . . . this is experiment. There are so many nonsense . . . (indistinct) . . . so many things to know. There is so many things to know. We are . . . (indistinct) . . . What is this nonsense . . . (indistinct) . . . knowledge? We don't want . . . (indistinct) . . . knowledge. That means you are not in . . . (indistinct) . . . of knowledge, . . . (indistinct) . . . you come to perfect knowledge then come. (indistinct) . . . knowledge is not accepted. (indistinct) . . . these are not knowledge, these are theories. Science is a nonsense thing. What is science? If there is no perfect knowledge, (indistinct) . . . all science will say like that . . . (indistinct) . . . this is a perfect knowledge. So that means we are in the beginning and not come the end . . . (indistinct) . . . end, then come . . . (indistinct)

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

(indistinct) . . . you have take . . . (indistinct) . . . first class, whether . . . (indistinct) . . . or not. But if you don't . . . (indistinct) . . . Vedas says:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

(indistinct) . . . if you do not understand what is . . . (indistinct) . . . bodily concept of knowledge then your knowledge is . . . (indistinct) . . . that is stated in the Veda. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke. (indistinct) . . . from bones, from the muscles, from the blood, urine . . . (indistinct) . . . combined together there is a . . . (indistinct) . . . this body is living force then let . . . (indistinct) . . . and come to the perfection then . . . (indistinct) . . . first of all you accept there is a soul. (indistinct) . . . because if you do not follow the real God . . . if there is no source where is their explanation.

One guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's alright. We should admit the source is there. That is sufficient. Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . you are chasing the other . . . (indistinct) . . . That is nice thing . . . (indistinct) . . . any other question?

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that? . . . (indistinct) . . . oh that is Vedic culture. tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet. In order to understand the transcendental science one has to approach the guru and this guru . . . (indistinct) . . . establish how do we acknowledge and finally . . . (indistinct) . . . brahma . . . (indistinct) . . . this is the qualification of guru. And one has to approach . . . (indistinct) . . . guru to understand the transcendental subject matter. This is Vedic injunction. tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet. (sanskrit verse) . . . tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya . . . (indistinct) . . . that he can seriously understand about the transcendental subject matter, he must approach a bona fide guru . . . (indistinct) . . . alright chant Hare Krsna. (kīrtana) (end)