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730104 - Lecture NOD - Bombay

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730104ND-BOMBAY - January 04, 1973 - 49:53 Minutes

(distorted audio)

Pradyumna: (reading) "The basic part of the living condition is that we have a general propensity to love someone. No one can live without loving someone else. This propensity is present in every living being. Even an animal like a tiger has this loving propensity, at least in a dormant stage, and it is certainly present in the human beings. The missing point, however, is where to repose our love so that everyone can become happy. At the present moment, the human society teaches one to love his country or family or his personal self, but there is no information where to repose the loving propensity so that everyone can become happy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This point is missing. We cannot . . . it is not possible that we can approach everyone and offer our loving service. Just like people are very much attracted by the humanitarian services. They take it very great, loving service to the human society. But however you may love . . . suppose in the beginning one loves his own self, his own body . . . just like a child: he loves for himself. Anything he gets, he wants to eat. Own sense gratification. Then, as he grows, he shares his foodstuff with his little brother and sister. Then, as he grows, he loves his mother, his father, then other friends. In this way, as we grow, we can love our society, our community or nation, or internationally, all human being. But still it is imperfect. Still it is imperfect. It is not all-inclusive.

Just like at the present moment, every country, they are national, they consider the human being as national, not the animals. But actual meaning of "national" means anyone who takes birth in that country. In Sanskrit word it is called prajā. King and . . . the, the rāja, and prajā. Prajā means who takes birth, prajāyate. Anyone who takes birth in that country, in that kingdom, he's called prajā. So it is the duty of the king to give protection all prajās. Not that only human being or my brother or my sister, and not the animals—not the cows, not the goats, not the chickens. No. They're also prajā. But because there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they think that prajā means only the human beings, that's all. Imperfect knowledge.

But when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he loves everyone. Because his connection with Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ (BG 14.4): "All forms of living entities, all species of life, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." That is real humanity. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

If one does not see equally to all living entities, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ . . . (BG 5.18). That is paṇḍita. It is not paṇḍita that "Only my brother is good, my father is good, and all are bad." That is not paṇḍita. That is sectarianism. That is sectarianism. Paṇḍita . . .

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

So that means at the present moment all the leaders, they're fools and rascals. They are simply sectarian, "I am good. My brother is good. My father is good. All other bad." That's all. Nationalism, Communism, these are going on. But a kṛṣṇa-bhakta, he does not see like that. He does not like to kill even an ant. That Mṛgāri, he was a hunter. He was killing animals half-dead. And he met Nārada Muni, so he became a Vaiṣṇava. And when he became a Vaiṣṇava, he was not prepared to kill even an ant—the same hunter, who was killing other animals half-dead, and he was taking pleasure. So this partiality is not in Vaiṣṇava. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ. Vaiṣṇava, he's a friend. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇam.

titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ
suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām
ajāta-śatravaḥ śāntāḥ
sādhavaḥ sādhu-bhūṣaṇam
(SB 3.25.21)

Sādhu, devotee, he is friend for everyone. Suhṛdam . . . as Kṛṣṇa is friend of everyone . . . Kṛṣṇa says:

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām . . .
(BG 5.29)

Similarly, His representative is also friend for everyone. As Kṛṣṇa comes, descends to reclaim all fallen souls back to home, back to Godhead, similarly His representative, devotee, he also approaches everyone, tries to get him back to home, back to Godhead. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Even to the animals . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered a dog. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's party was going to Jagannātha Purī. A dog was follow . . . following. So that dog was delivered because he followed the devotees. There are many instances like that.

(aside) What is this? Read it.

Pradyumna: "At the present moment, the human society teaches one how to love his country or family or his personal self . . ."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got a propensity to love, but we do not know, do not know how our love can be perfect. That we do not know. That perfection is possible when you love Kṛṣṇa. Acyutejyā. Sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā.

yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena
tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ
prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇāṁ
tatha sarvārhaṇam acyutejyā
(SB 4.31.14)

That . . . this secret, they do not know. But factually that is the fact. Just like we are, in this old age, we are wandering all over the world to see that, "Let everyone become happy by Kṛṣṇa consciousness." It is not that we love only our countrymen, only Hindus, or Bengalis, or Madrasis, or . . . no. We love everyone, even the animals. But because human being can understand the Kṛṣṇa philosophy, therefore we hold meetings of the human being. But still, whenever we get opportunity, we give protection to the animals.

We give them prasādam. We do not prohibit even some animal comes to hear. They also hear some, sometimes. The hear, hearing is there. Everyone can hear. Even they do not understand what is Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you chant loudly Hare Kṛṣṇa, even the ants and insect who is hearing, he'll be delivered, because it is spiritual vibration. It will act for everyone. We . . . just like fire. The fire will act, either you are human being or insect. If you touch fire, it will do its work.

Similarly, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is transcendental vibration. When we chant loudly, anyone who hears—it doesn't matter whether he's man, animal, tree, insect—anyone who will hear, he'll get profit. This is transcendental vibration. Just like when there is . . . not to speak of this transcendental vibration, even the vibration of cloud, that is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, śabdaḥ khe pauruṣaṁ nṛṇām. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ (BG 7.8). So animal has no realization that, "Here is Kṛṣṇa," but a human being, after attending sat-saṅga, devotee's . . . association of the devotees, he can understand: "Oh, here I am drinking water.

Now in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. So this taste of water is Kṛṣṇa." He remembers immediately Kṛṣṇa. That means he immediately associates with Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. Either you remember . . . śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam, arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyam (SB 7.5.23). Any way, when you hear about Kṛṣṇa, you are associating Kṛṣṇa. You are chanting about Kṛṣṇa; you are associating with Kṛṣṇa. You are remembering, smaraṇam, that is also Kṛṣṇa.

So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. He's teaching how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It's not difficult at all. He says . . . everyone drinks water. Who can say that, "I do not drink water"? Then, then why you have not seen Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). So as soon as you taste, you understand what is Kṛṣṇa. What is the difficulty? If you try to understand Kṛṣṇa in this easy way, gradually Kṛṣṇa consciousness will develop.

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya
śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya
(CC Madhya 22.107)

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in everyone's heart, because everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like part and parcel of gold is gold. There may be some dusty cover, but it has to be cleansed, that's all. Then it becomes gold. Similarly, everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. But on account of his association with matter, he, he's thinking that he's different from Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, every one of us . . . mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Everyone is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa means part and parcel of gold, as you understand part . . . a little drop of seawater, it is also, contains the same ingredients. Similarly, we have also got the same ingredient as Kṛṣṇa has got. The difference is He's big. Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyān. We are small, particle.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is our natural . . . there is. But, at the present moment, on account of our association with māyā, the material energy, we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa bhūliya jīva bhoga-vāñchā kare (Prema-vivarta 6.2). That forgetfulness is manifested by our desire to enjoy this material world. Bhoga-vāñchā. Everyone is trying to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. That is called material world. Only the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are not trying to enjoy this material world, but they are trying to dovetail everything in the service of the Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ (Brs. 1.2.255).

Just like we eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Everyone is eating. We are also eating. But we don't eat directly. Whatever we prepare, whatever we collect, first of all we offer to Kṛṣṇa. Because we think, we think—and it is a fact—the thing is of Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa has given. You cannot manufacture rice, ḍāl or wheat in your factory, neither fruit nor milk. It is given by Kṛṣṇa. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's giving. One has to acknowledge, "Yes, it is given by Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's. So let me offer it first of all to Kṛṣṇa, then take the prasādam." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Where is the difficulty? Everyone can do that. But they'll not do it. They'll satisfy the tongue. That is forbidden. Ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt, bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpām (BG 3.13).

So if you are eating, eating simply sin, how we can be happy? We have to suffer. Bhuñjate te aghaṁ pāpām ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. So who is cooking for Kṛṣṇa? Nobody's cooking. Except a Kṛṣṇa's devotee, nobody's cooking. He's pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. He's thinking, "Now this sandeṣa, rasagullā, purī and meat and chicken, I shall eat very voraciously." So you are . . . he's eating sinful, sins, all sins. Aghaṁ pāpā. And he has to suffer. He has to suffer. Therefore people are suffering. Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone must suffer. That is the laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot avoid it. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). Only you can be happy when you are a surrendered soul to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Hariṁ vinā na mṛtiṁ taranti.

So we have got this loving propensity, but we do not know how to love and where our loving propensity should be reposed. That we do not know. That is Kṛṣṇa. People . . . the same example. Just like if you water in the root of tree, then the water is distributed all over the branches, leaves and flowers and everywhere. If you put foodstuff in the stomach, the energy's distributed all over the body. Everyone can understand this. There are . . . Kṛṣṇa is the root. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). He's the root. But we are neglecting the root. We are trying to pour water in the leaves. The leaf will dry, and his labor will be frustrated. That is happening.

So-called humanitarian service, social service, without any touch with Kṛṣṇa . . . just like watering on the tree without touching the root—it is useless labor. Similarly, you do whatever service you can do to the society, to the community, to the nation, but do it in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you are perfect. Otherwise it will remain imperfect. The persons who are . . . whom you are giving service, they'll never be happy, neither you'll be happy.

So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that they're simply wasting their time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting their time in so-called humanitarian service. They must take. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Everything should be in relationship with Kṛṣṇa.

anāsaktasya viṣayān
yathārham upayuñjataḥ
nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe
yuktaṁ vairāgyam ucyate
(Brs. 1.2.255)

The simple process. First of all, try, try to understand Kṛṣṇa and try to love Him. Your love will be distributed, not only in your family and community, but throughout the whole world—all animals, all insects, all trees. You'll never be inclined to do harm, even to an ant even. A tree is cut down—a kṛṣṇa-bhakta becomes sorry. Others, they do not become sorry. They are so sympathetic. Nowadays, trees are being cut into pieces without any consideration. This is also sinful activities. They're also living entity. You cannot kill them unnecessarily. This is the law of nature.

(aside) Go on.

Pradyumna: "But there is no information where to repose the loving propensity so that everyone can become happy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If the whole society takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, everyone will be happy. If the government men, the politicians, they become Kṛṣṇa conscious . . . but it is very difficult. As soon as they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, they'll not be able to do all these heinous activities. So it is very difficult, but the fact is this, that . . . just like Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, when he was king, people were so happy that even there was no extreme cold and extreme heat. Neither they were any disturbed with anxieties. These are stated in the Bhāgavata. If the king, if the government men, they become devotee, then automatically the prajās will be happy. Why they are hankering after Rāma-rājya? Because the head of the kingdom is the purest.

So in a . . . in our Bengali language, it is said that if the king is sinful, the whole kingdom becomes lost. And if in the family, if the housewife is sinful, then the whole family becomes lost. It is a common saying. So the difficulty is that nobody . . . we are grudging against government. So many complaints we have got. But there is no question of grudging against government. Because we are not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are electing our representatives fools and rascals. How we can expect good government? You become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you elect your representative, Kṛṣṇa conscious, and the government will be all right. You'll be happy.

(aside) Go on.

Pradyumna: "That missing point is Kṛṣṇa, and The Nectar of Devotion teaches us how to stimulate our original love for Kṛṣṇa and how to be situated in that position where we can enjoy our blissful life."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, there cannot be blissful life. If, if . . . you may rest assured. You may try in so many ways. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Leaders may try. It will not be possible. Take, for example, in India. We thought, "If the Britishers go away, so then we'll be happy. There will be no Hindu-Muslim riot. There will be . . ." So many things we conjectured. "It will be Rāma-rājya." But what is the Rāma-rājya? Now everywhere there is fight. Now there is no Hindu-Muslim riot; now Andhra and other provinces, they're fighting. So fighting will remain, unless we are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

(aside) Go on.

Pradyumna: "In the primary stage a child loves his parents, then his brothers and sisters. And as he daily grows up, he begins to love his family, society, community, country, nation or even the whole human society. But the loving propensity is not satisfied even by loving all human society. That loving propensity remains imperfectly fulfilled . . ."

Prabhupāda: When Vyāsadeva finished his all scripture writing, all the Vedas,Purāṇas, even Brahma-sūtra, he was not happy. He was not happy, and his spiritual master, Nārada, came, inquired: "Why you are not happy? You have done so much work." So he could not explain. He said, "I, I do not find why I am unhappy. But because you are my spiritual master, you can say." So he indicated that, "Because you did not describe about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore you are not happy. Now you try to describe the Supreme Personality of Godhead particularly." And therefore he wrote this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You'll find this in the Third Chapter of the First Canto. Hmm.

Pradyumna: "But that loving propensity is not satisfied even by loving all of human society." Oh. "That loving propensity remains imperfectly fulfilled until we know who is the supreme beloved."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Supreme beloved: Kṛṣṇa. Supreme Person, supreme beautiful, supreme rich, supreme famous, supreme wise. Everything supreme. We love somebody, or, out of these six opulences, if one opulence is there . . . suppose one man is very rich and charitable, we love him. And . . . just think over how Kṛṣṇa is rich and how He's charitable. He is giving His charity, He's distributing foodstuff, millions and millions of living entities every day. We are taking prou . . . pride if we can feed, say, hundred, two hundred, five hundred, two thousand. But just imagine. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are millions and millions of elephants all over the universe; Kṛṣṇa is supplying their food. There are so many animals. How they're getting food? So many birds. How they can . . .? Actually there is no scarcity of food. The scarcity of food is for the human society or the animals who live with them. Because actually the human society is misusing the advanced consciousness; therefore they are put into the trouble.

At the present moment, there is scarcity of water all over India, and so many things are being restricted. But in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajñād bhavati parjanya. So they are not performing yajñas. So this is nature's restriction. We have got this information. They are not performing yajñas. They, they think by science, by electricity, by this and that we shall provide everything. But then the electricity is being also reduced; supply of electricity is being controlled. And one after, one after another, one after another . . . because the supreme controller, if He does not sanction, your so-called scientific improvement or so-called social service will not make the whole world satisfied. That is not possible. That is not possible. This secret is known to the devotee.

(aside) Yes?

Pradyumna: "Our love can be fulfilling and can be fully satisfied only when it is reposed in Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: "This theme is the sum and substance of The Nectar of Devotion, which teaches us how to love Kṛṣṇa in five different transcendental mellows."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to teach people how to love Kṛṣṇa.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
yayātmā samprasīdati
(SB 1.2.6)

Yenātmā samprasīdati. So this is the propaganda of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That will solve all problems, and people will be happy, things will change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you ver . . . (break)

Prabhavati: . . . Kṛṣṇa is like the sun at six-thirty . . .?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Prabhavati: The sun at six-thirty in the morning? Six-thirty in the morning, sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Prabhavati: So Kṛṣṇa appears and performs His pastimes, and then He disappears and appears in another universe? Or He appears . . .?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not appear or disappear. Kṛṣṇa is always present, but we see at a certain period. Just like the sun. Sun is always in the sky, but when it is daytime, we see, and at nighttime, we cannot see. At nighttime, because we cannot see, it does not mean there is no sun. It is our imperfectness of eyes we cannot see. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always present. One who has got eyes, he can see. When all the circumstances favorable, he can see. Kṛṣṇa is always . . . premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti 'yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1).

So Kṛṣṇa can be seen always, if we have got eyes to see. That eyes, how you can be transferred? Premāñjana-cchurita. When it is smeared with the ointment of love, then with these eyes you can see Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is always there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He's represent everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). Kṛṣṇa is not absent. Kṛṣṇa is always there. We haven't got eyes to see Him. So we have to prepare the eyes. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When you make your eyes nirmala, when you give up all these titular designations—"I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am black," "I am white . . ." These are all designations. When you give up, become brahma bhutaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—"I am nothing of this; I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa"—when you come to this consciousness, you will see Kṛṣṇa.

Kṛṣṇa is always there. (break) . . . Kṛṣṇa. A devotee's seeing factual Kṛṣṇa, and nondevotee's seeing a brass doll, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is here. Why they say: "Where is your Kṛṣṇa?" Here is Kṛṣṇa. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu, he challenged Prahlāda Mahārāja, "Where is your Kṛṣṇa? All right, let me kill you. Let your God come and protect you." So the atheist class, they say like that. But one who has got training in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he has got eyes to see Kṛṣṇa always. If here is not Kṛṣṇa, then all the ācāryas, they installed Deity in so many millions of temples, they're all fools and rascals? They ask us to worship some stone and wood? No. Kṛṣṇa is there, but we haven't got eyes to see. That is the difference. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as soon as He saw Jagannātha at Purī, Jagannātha at . . . immediately fainted: "Here is My Lord." Fainted.

So we have to create that eyes to see Kṛṣṇa. That will be done gradually. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adhaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). We cannot see Kṛṣṇa. We cannot command Kṛṣṇa, "Please come here. I'll see You." No. He will reveal Himself, being satisfied with your service. "Here I am. You see Me now." So we have to wait for that revelation. Not by force. Force will not act. Kṛṣṇa is not our order-supplier, servant: "Kṛṣṇa, please come here. I want to see You." No, no. That will not do. You must be submissive, first of all surrender. You follow the rules and regulation, be mad after Kṛṣṇa. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu: govinda-viraheṇa me. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat . . . śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me (Śikṣāṣṭaka 7). Śūnyayitaṁ jagat sarvam: "Everything is vacant because I cannot see Govinda."

Just like if one's beloved son dies, he sees everything vacant. He no more sees that cars are running on the street or people are running. No. He sees everything vacant. Why? Due to love. Similarly, when we'll come to that position, we shall see everything vacant without Kṛṣṇa. Then that is the proper position to see Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. Lord Caitanya says that, "I am not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." "Now, Sir, You are crying always for Kṛṣṇa." "That is simply to show, make a show that I am a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa." Then? "No, how we can understand that You are not . . .? We know You're . . ." "No. Because I am still living without Kṛṣṇa, that means I have no love for Kṛṣṇa. I should have died long, long ago." Caitanya Mahāprabhu says.

So this much ecstasy, this much eagerness, when we come, then can see always. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilo . . . santaḥ sadaiva (Bs. 5.38). Twenty-four hours he can see Kṛṣṇa. He cannot see anything but Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sunrise. As, as soon as the sun rises, you start your aeroplane, and you go on, on the . . . towards the eastern . . . western side, you'll find always day. A practical. There will be no sunset. We have seen it while coming from Paris to London. Was it not? There was no sunshine. We started from Paris at twelve o'clock and we reached London at three o'clock.

Śyāmasundara: Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles. Yes. Los Angeles at three o'clock. It actually took eleven hours, but it appeared three hours. But there was no sunset. Actually so many hours have been passed. So this is a technique. So similarly, if you keep always yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa will not go away from your sight. He'll not go away from your sight. You must know the technique. Is that all right? Now you have any other question, ask. Yes?

Prabhavati: I understand that you cannot see Kṛṣṇa with your eyes. However, I'm just asking the details of Kṛṣṇa's appearance in the material world. I want to know: if Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet five thousand years ago at a certain time, that means that immediately did He appear again in another universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhavati: Immediately.

Prabhupāda: The same example. Just like six-thirty, sunrise, as soon as it passes from India, the six-thirty in another country. And as soon as it passes that country, six, six-thirty in another country. So six-thirty is always there. Similarly six-thirty, twelve-thirty, three o'clock, all the time, twenty-four hours, always present in some, somewhere or other. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's līlā, from His birth up to the disappearance, that is always existing. Disappearance means disappearance from my eyes. Kṛṣṇa does not disappear. Just like formerly people used to think, after the sunset, the sun is dead. Huh? Who were the persons that used . . . sometimes, you . . .? They thought like that: "Sun is dead now"? Some philosophers, or the Christians, they used to think like that. Similarly somebody is saying, "Kṛṣṇa is dead" . . .

(break) . . . because you are Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. But we disappear. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntaram-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is sober, he knows that, "This man, he's not dead." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "He's not dead. He has simply passed from this body to another body." Just like a mother, when the child from baby's body comes to a boy's body, the mother does not cry, "Oh, where is my son, that baby?" She knows that baby has come to this body. Similarly, a person who is in the knowledge of the transmigration of the soul, he knows that "My father, my brother, he's not dead. He has simply changed this body." Dhīras tatra na muhyati. One has to become dhīra, sober, to understand the things as they are. Tathā dehāntaraṁ-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati.

So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to make people dhīra, not adhīra. Adhīra cannot understand. But even adhīra can understand. Dhīrādhīra. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī, dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau (Ṣaḍ Gosvāmy Aṣṭaka 1). A perfect devotee is dear both for the dhīra and adhīra. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau bhuvi bhuvo bhārāvahantārakau vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. So for a devotee, both the dhīra and adhīra welcome. We do not say only the perfect persons should come here. No. Perfect or imperfect, come here. Take part with this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Dhīrādhīra, it doesn't matter. Because one who's adhīra, by associating with the dhīras, he'll also become dhīra. Just like one is not drunkard, but associating with the drunkards, he becomes a drunkard. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ.

So similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving chance to everyone. Not to speak of . . . kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā (BG 9.33). Api cet sudur . . . what is that verse? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). They also . . . te 'pi yānti, yānti parāṁ gatim. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice, even the most sinful person can go back to home, back to Godhead. And what to speak of the pious brahmins? Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā. They will go. Even those who are sinful, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they will also go. It is so nice.

Indian lady: Gurujī, may I ask a question . . . (indistinct) . . . you spoke about transmigration of souls, and reincarnation.

Prabhupāda: Stand up.

Indian lady: . . . transmigration of souls, or reincarnation as karma . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian lady: (indistinct) . . . if you believe in it. Could you answer me by telling me how someone who has entered a new body and a new life doesn't remember anything of the past? If, for example, I am suffering today because of what I did in the past, any form of retribution or suffering should be for me a total consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you remember from your birth up to date, everything? You remember? Do you remember?

Indian lady: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: From your birth till today, do you remember everything?

Indian lady: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you forget in this life? Things which have happened in this life, in your childhood, so many things happened, but do you remember all of them? So that, does it mean that you did not do so?

Indian lady: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you remember or not remember, it doesn't matter.

Indian lady: But if I'm, if I'm . . .

Prabhupāda: That is your nature: you forget. So you do not remember even the incidences of this life. How you can remember the incidents of your past life? Because you are forgetful. You are so imperfect that you forget after two hours everything. That is your nature. That does not mean that you had . . . you did not do anything. And, besides that, the . . . you remember or not remember. Suppose your guardian remembers, "My dear child, when you were a small baby, you did it." But you remember no . . .

Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is there. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Anumantā upadraṣṭā. He knows everything. You may forget, but Kṛṣṇa knows. "You wanted this thing. All right. Take it. You worked for this. Now I give you the opportunity. You take this. You wanted to eat everything and anything, without any discrimination. All right. Now you become a hog." That is Kṛṣṇa's favor. "And if you wanted Me . . ."

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūt . . .
mad-yajino 'pi yānti . . .
(BG 9.25)

"You wanted Me. You sacrificed everything for Me. Please come on." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). So as you work . . . so therefore this life is the preparation stage for your next life—either you choice a better life or a sinful life or an unimportant life, that is your . . . just like if you get good education, that will make your future life nice. But if you don't go to school, how you can get a better life? Similarly karma . . . karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). According to your karma. If you are earned . . . worked very hard for nice place, you'll get it.

Indian lady: So there's no end to these saṁsāras . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That . . . you are very intelligent. In this way we are creating our karmas, and getting one, one kind of body to another, another, another. Therefore if we want to get out of this cycle of birth and death, then we must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then the facility will be tyaktvā deham . . . after giving up this body, tyaktvā deham, punar janma naiti: no more birth in this material world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the best service to the humanity, to stop this repetition of birth and death and go to home, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the special benediction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Indian lady: So it is the shortcut way to . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian lady: It is a shortcut to eternal life?

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the shortcut. Just if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, if you are trained up, just after death you go to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Immediately.

Indian lady: How does it compare with other movements?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian lady: How does it compare with other movements?

Prabhupāda: That you have to judge. What can I say? If you don't want to go to Kṛṣṇa, you can do anything else.

Indian lady: I mean . . . are these movements leading to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you want to meet Kṛṣṇa immediately, then do as these boys are doing, these girls are doing. What is the difficulty? They are Europeans, Americans. They used to eat meat. They had all the bad habits. Now, for Kṛṣṇa's sake, they have given up everything. They want Kṛṣṇa. They are, they are determined. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 7.28). So as soon as you become determined, your success is sure. (end)