750410 - Lecture SB 05.05.01 - Hyderabad

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



750410SB-HYDERABAD - April 10, 1975 - 59:41 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye
tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ
śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam
(SB 5.5.1)

This evening I shall recite some verses from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter, on the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva. Ṛṣabhadeva was the father of King Bharata, after whose name this tract of land is called Bhārata-varṣa. So Ṛṣabhadeva, before retiring from family life, He had one hundred sons, and He instructed them about spiritual realization of life.

This Bhārata-varṣa, land of Bhārata-varṣa, it is meant for spiritual realization. And Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His mission is to distribute the message of Bhārata-varṣa throughout the whole world. He said—it is recorded in a Bengali stanza,

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Upakāra, you can understand—it is very common word—to do something good to others. Upakāra. And apakāra means to do something harm to others. At the present moment, throughout the whole world, the design is how to do something harmful to others. This is called envy. The material world is full of envies. I am envious of you, and you are envious of me. This is materialism, this struggle between man to man, family to family, community to community, nation to nation, species to species. Everyone is envious. This is material disease. And spiritual life means not to become envious. That is spiritual life.

Therefore in the beginning of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ (SB 1.1.2). This dharma, bhāgavata-dharma… Bhāgavata-dharma means the religious principles connecting with Bhagavān. That is bhāgavata, and that is dharma. If the dharma, or the principle of religion, does not try to understand God, or to reestablish the relationship with God, that is not religion; that is cheating. Therefore Bhāgavata says. So all types of cheating religion is rejected from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We have manufactured so many religious systems: Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion and so many others. Why religion should be designated? Just like gold. Gold is gold. There cannot be any Hindu gold or Muslim gold or Christian gold. Gold is gold. Everywhere you take gold, people will accept as gold. Because one Hindu is taking gold to some Muslim country, it does not mean the Muslims will not accept because it is brought by the Hindu. Gold is gold. Therefore religion, the conception of religion, must be gold. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
(SB 1.2.6)

That is first-class religion, paraḥ. Paraḥ means transcendental, not material.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
(SB 1.2.6)

That system of religion is first class, or transcendental, which teaches the followers how to become devotee of the Lord. That is religion, and that is instructed in the Bhagavad-gītā:

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja
(BG 18.66)

That is religion.

Kṛṣṇa appeared. His mission was,

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ
vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām
dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya
yuge yuge sambhavāmi
(BG 4.8)

So He appears for reestablishing the principles of religion. Now, at the end of His instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. He did not appear to teach Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion. He appeared for teaching what is religion. Religion cannot be two. Religion is one. Man's religion should be one. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma, religion, means the codes or the order given by God. That is religion. This is the simplest definition of religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam. Just like law means the codes or the order given by the state. You cannot manufacture law at your home. That is not possible. That is not law. What the state says, "Keep to the left" or "Keep to the right," that is law. If you violate the law, then you will be punished. Similarly, the laws of God is the laws of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
(BG 9.10)

Just like the legislative assembly passes the law to be carried out, to be executed, by the people in general. And if they do not do it, then they are punishable. Similarly, the dharma, or the codes of Bhagavān, you have to accept. Compulsory. If you do not accept, then you will suffer. Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). This is the law.

So human life especially meant for understanding what is God and what is the law of God and how to follow it and achieve success in life. That is human life. Sambandha, abhidheya and prayojana. Sambandha means first of all we must understand what is our relationship with this material world or with God. So many there are. Everything is relative—this is a relative world. So what is the relativity between God and ourself? There must be God. The atheist class of men, they deny the existence of God. But that is superfluous. They cannot deny the existence of God, because they have to abide by the laws of God. How you can deny the existence of God? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). The atheist class of men, they do not believe in God, but they believe in death. That they will have to believe. They cannot avoid it. And Kṛṣṇa says that "Death I am. If you do not believe in God, then you will have to believe Me when I come as death and take everything from you." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. You may deny God, and you may do whatever you like, and you may create your own kingdom by plans. But when Kṛṣṇa will come, He will come as death, because you are atheist, and He will take away everything what you have created. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu was atheist number one, and he was very much persecuting his own son because he was a devotee of God. The only fault. So when it was very, very terrible, at that time Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva appeared and killed Hiraṇyakaśipu within a second.

So unless you make a solution of the four problems, namely birth, death, old age and disease, which is compulsory, how you can deny God? That is not possible. A madman says that "I don’t care for God," but no sane man will say like that. So God is there. I may believe or not believe—that is my business. But God is there, God's laws are going on, and we have to follow. We shall be forced to follow, this way or that way, so there is no excuse to deny the existence of God. That is foolishness. Therefore if you are sane man, then we should be sober. In cool head we should think of how we are being controlled, who is the controller, why we are being controlled, why we are not independent, why we are forced to accept something which we do not want. These things are to be considered in human life, and that is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra, athātho brahma-jijñāsā. Now this human life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. That is the only business. That is the only business. Śāstra says that,

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
(SB 1.5.18)

Everything is arranged according to the body I have received. How I have received this body? I have received this body by the material nature. Everyone can understand it.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-sangaḥ asya
sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu
(BG 13.22)

So the prakṛti is instrument through which God's law is working. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. The scientists are trying to make something new, but the real problem,

janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-
duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam
(BG 13.9)

that is under the control of prakṛti, or the instrument of God. Now, how to make our life successful, that is being instructed by Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. The first business, He says,

nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye
(SB 5.5.1)

"My dear sons, this life," ayam dehaḥ... Ayam dehaḥ means this body, this human form of body. Deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. There are many other bodies. There are 8,400,00's forms of body.

jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi
sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati
kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ
pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam
(Padma Purāṇa)

Then,

paśavaḥ triṁśal-lakṣāṇi
catur-lakṣāṇi mānuṣāḥ
(Padma Purāṇa)

So there are so many forms of life in this material world, ayam loke. Deha-bhājāṁ. Deha-bhājāṁ means one, the spirit soul, has accepted this body—but by evolutionary process, from aquatics to plant's life, then insect life, then reptile's life, then bird's life, beast life, then human form of life, then civilized form of life, then the life of human body born in Bhārata-varṣa. This is the highest, highest developed life by evolutionary process, this land of Bhārata-varṣa.

So I am especially speaking to the Indians, bhārata-varṣīs, that you have got this life in this land after many, many evolutionary process, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Bahu-sambhavānte, the śāstras say. Bahu-sambhavānte (SB 11.9.29). Unfortunately, we are forgetting this. At the present moment we are forgetting the importance of this life born in the land of Bhārata-varṣa. This is our misfortune. Don’t be misled. You have got this human form of life, bhārata-varṣī. Very easily you can take the opportunity of understanding what is God, what is your relationship with God, because in India there are so many Vedic śāstras. I am reading one, this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is also Vedic literature. It is the commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra, bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānām (Garuḍa Purāṇa). So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are spreading this knowledge of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam throughout the whole world. And as far the Indians, bhārata-varṣī, it is a special prerogative to understand these Vedic literatures and make his life successful. Do not spoil your the gift, the boon given by God—this human form of life. Do not waste it for nothing. Utilize it.

Therefore long, long ago, about some millions and millions of years ago, this knowledge was imparted by Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons: "My dear boys, you have got this human form of life, especially the body received from Me—I am king in royal family—so don’t spoil it." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. How to spoil it? Kaṣṭān kāmān, simply for sense gratification. Working very hard like an ass is not human form of life. Human form of life should be utilized to become very sober, cool-headed, and to understand what is God, what is my life. This is the necessity. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
(BG 4.13)

Not that everyone should be very much intelligent. It is not possible. In the… Although everyone has got this human form of body, not that everyone is very intelligent. So according to the intelligence, the divisions should be there. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa:

cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
(BG 4.13)

In the human society there must be four divisions—the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya and the śūdra—according to the quality. The most intelligent class of men, they should become brāhmaṇas. Satya, śamaḥ, damaḥ, titikṣā, ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). So the next-intelligent class of men should become the administrators, and the next-intelligent class men should be the productive class, vaiśyas.

kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ
vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam
(BG 18.44)

Everything is there. And especially in India, this ideal life of human society should be inaugurated. We should not imitate the Western people, who are now dwindling. Their material civilization is no longer giving them happiness. That is a fact. They are seeking after athātho brahma-jijñāsā. They are now seeking after inquiring about Brahman. Therefore you find so many Europeans and Americans, they have taken to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because they are now inquisitive—inquisitive: "What is next?" Why…, why we are following them, how to make machine and skyscraper building? They are coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So long, long before, Ṛṣabhadeva advised, "My dear sons, this body should not be misused working whole day and night for sense gratification, because that is the business of the hogs and dogs." Here it is clearly said, kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. Viḍ-bhujāṁ. You have seen. In our India we see viḍ-bhujāṁ. Viḍ-bhujāṁ means stool-eater, the pigs. They are seeking after stool, whole day and night, and they are eating. And after eating stool… The stool is very substantial food. According to chemical examination, it contains all the hypophosphites, because the essence of the foodstuff we have taken, that is stool. So anyone, if one can eat; but we can see that the hogs, they become very fatty, because it contains fat. Sometimes in the wartime, I learned that the German people are taking, extracting, fat from stool. So there is enough fat. The result is they become very much sexually inclined. And they have no distinction how to enjoy sex life. Never mind it is mother or sister or daughter, it doesn't matter. That is hog's life.

Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva is advising His sons, "Don’t be like hogs—eat very sumptuously, become fatty, and then seek after sex life and without any discrimination. Don’t be like hogs and dogs. This life is not meant for, to become like dogs and hogs." This is the first instruction. Then what it is meant for? He says, tapo divyaṁ putrakā: "My dear sons, this life is meant for tapasya." Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some miseries. Just like we ask our students for tapasya: no illicit sex. So in the Western countries it is very difficult to give up this habit. But these boys and girls, on my request, they have given up. This is called tapasya. I do not like to give up something, but for achieving some higher result, if I give up voluntarily something, which may cause some miseries, still I shall accept it. That is called tapasya. Tapaḥ.

So why tapasya? Tapasya is accepted for some higher achievement. So therefore He said, tapo divyaṁ putrakā. Divyaṁ. Divyaṁ means "transcendental." Just like Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ. Divyaṁ: transcendental, divine. So Kṛṣṇa says that,

janma karma ca me divyaṁ
yo jānāti tattvataḥ
(BG 4.9)

Anyone who tries to understand Kṛṣṇa's activities, that is divyaṁ. So tapo divyaṁ: "My dear sons, accept tapasya for that transcendental realization." Not for manufacturing atom bomb. That is also tapasya. The scientists undergo severe penances how to find out, discover some… Not that kind. That Hiraṇyakaśipu... Hiraṇyakaśipu, he also underwent great tapasya, but what was the result of that tapasya? To tease his own son, because he was devotee. Not that kind of tapasya. That is demonic. Tapo divyaṁ. Divyaṁ. You just try to undergo austerities and penances for divine, transcendental realization. That is tapasya. "Why I shall go? I am enjoying my senses very nicely like the dogs and hogs. Why shall I undergo tapasya?" Now the answer is given: tapo divyaṁ yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed. This tapasya is required if you want to purify your existence. Just like a man suffering from some disease, he is advised by the physician that "You don’t eat for some time. Fast." That is tapasya. Why? Not to be cured—to purify the body from the disease. That is tapasya.

So here tapasya is advised not for some material profit but for transcendental realization. Then what will be the result? Now, śuddhyed sattvaṁ. This existence… At the present moment my existence, this bodily existence, is not pure. If it is pure, then why shall I be subjected to birth, death and old age? Because it is not pure. The so-called scientists, philosophers, they do not know. They say death is..., it is inevitable; we cannot avoid it. No. Death is…, can be avoided. That is called tapasya. That is called purification. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. After giving up this body, Kṛṣṇa assures; then you don’t get another material body. Where is that science? They do not know whether we are going to accept another body. That's a fact, but they do not know it. Big, big scientist, big, big professors, they do not know it. They think that this life is the end, and after, there is nothing—zero. Śūnyavādi. Nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi.

But that is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, the most, I mean, authorized person, Kṛṣṇa. Who can be greater authority than Kṛṣṇa? All ācāryas accept—Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya—the ācāryas who guide the destiny of Indian civilization, they accept kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So how can you deny the statement of Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir. As you are changing body in this life,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
(BG 2.13)

so there is dehāntara-prāptir. So this dehāntara-prāptir means diseased condition. And we have accepted the so-called material happiness as happiness. But that may be happiness, but that is temporary. But real happiness, as it is stated here, that,

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ
śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam
(SB 5.5.1)

If you purify your existence, that you are hankering after happiness, that happiness will be eternal. Eternal. Never interrupted. That is wanted. Ānanda-cin-maya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis (Bs. 5.37). Ānanda-cin-maya-rasa. Rasa means "taste." We taste some happiness, but not this material happiness. But just like you taste sugar candy when you are suffering from jaundice, the taste will be bitter, but sugar candy is not bitter; it is sweet. But when you are cured from the jaundice disease, the same sugar candy will be tasting very sweet.

So we are hankering after tasting sugar candy in the diseased condition, and we are tasting the bitterness of it. But if you are cured, sattvaṁ śuddhyed, our existence is purified, then we shall taste brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam—unlimited, eternal happiness. That is the business of human life. Not that for temporary happiness we shall work like hogs and dogs perpetually, and getting change of another body, another body, another body. That is not very good intelligence. That will be described by Ṛṣabhadeva in the later verses:

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśa-da āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

This kind of working means I am creating another body. That we do not know; neither this science is known to the modern civilized man. They are in ignorance how we are creating another body, how there are so many different types of body. That is warned: yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśa-da āsa deha. This body is not tempo…, not permanent, but as long the..., as long the body is there, you must suffer. You must suffer threefold miseries. That is not coming to our brain. We are accepting suffering as happiness. Hah?

asatyere satya kori mani
nitāi-pada pāsariyā
ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā
(Manaḥ-śikṣā 3, Prārthanā)

Asatyere satya kori mani: you are accepting untruth as truth. This is our modern disease. It is not new, and some thousands and thousands of years ago… Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was written five thousand years ago, and this instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva is there, so it must have had happened long, long, many, many years before this Bhāgavata was written.

So the same disease. Because the material creation is not new. The disease is there from the very beginning. Now, in the Kali-yuga, the disease is very acute. Otherwise, the same birth and death. We have not improved anything, because the same birth and death is continuing. We are eating, sleeping, mating, and everything is going on. So if we want to improve our position, if we want to enjoy life eternally, blissfully, then we must take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is our request. If you don’t take it compulsorily, then you are committing suicide. We are just trying to save the human society from this suicidal policy.

So my request is that it is a very scientific movement, authorized from..., taken from the Vedic literatures, and based on the principles of Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So our only request is, especially here in India, they should take it very seriously and try to apply the principles in their life, and spread it all over the world. That is the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu: janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). We Indians, we are not meant for exploiting others. That is not our civilization. Cheating others—no. That is not ours. Our civilization is to do good to others. This is Indian civilization. Don’t forget it. You have got a very exalted position. Take advantage of the śāstras, make your life successful and try to do good to others.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya gurudeva. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Haribol. (break)

Prabhupāda: It is already described in the Bhagavad-gītā that kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). There are different forms of life, different species of life. What is the reason of these different gradations? A dog's life and a man's life is different. How it has so become? What is the scientists' reply? I don't think the scientists can reply this. Or they can reply, "Evolutionary process."

How the evolutionary process is taking place? So that answer is also given in the Bhagavad-gītā,

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ
sūyate sa-carācaram
hetunānena kaunteya
jagad viparivartate
(BG 9.10)

That... The developed human life is obtained by karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We are working under the control of material nature, and we are infecting, contaminating, different modes of material nature. Just like a person who has contaminated the smallpox infection, he must suffer from smallpox. That is medical science. Similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). There are three material modes of nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. So if you associate with goodness, then your next body becomes manifest in the modes of goodness, just like highly intelligent class of men, or the brāhmaṇa. If you infect the modes of passion, then you become passionate; you get passionate body. And ignorance also.

ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā
adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā
adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
(BG 14.18)

Every reply is there. As we are associating or contaminating different modes of material nature, we are manufacturing or giving chance to get a certain type of body, exactly if I infect the smallpox disease, I must suffer from it. This is the law of nature. So when, after associating with the modes of goodness for many, many years—or not many, many years but many, many lives—then one can become very intelligent brāhmaṇa.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
(BG 7.19)

After many, many births of this kind of contaminated diseases and births and body, when by culture of knowledge, by austerities, by penances, by brahminical culture one becomes very, very learned and wise, at that time he can understand what is God—not before that. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). Not the rascals and the fools can understand what is God. Only the jñānavān. So as you are trying to become jñānavān for higher status of life, similarly, if you become jñānavān to understand God, then God consciousness will come. Not so easily.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin etti māṁ vtattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

So not only ordinary human being. What they can understand about God? Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. What is the perfection of life? One must know. The perfection of life is to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is perfection of life, when one can understand.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

So after becoming Brahman-realized soul, when he is fully liberated from material contamination—goodness, passion or ignorance—prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, he has no material hankering, neither he laments for any material loss, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, when he visions all living entities as spirit soul, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām, at that time he is eligible to understand what is bhakti. And bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55): if you become bhakta, if you have got the opportunity to come to that platform, then you can understand God. Otherwise, God is not so easy to understand. (break) (answering another question) What is your duty? That is the first thing. Do you know what is your duty?

Indian man (1): Duty (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: You manufacture your duty, but you do not know what is your duty. (laughter) Duty is: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is your duty. Anything you manufacture duty, that is not duty; that is cheating. (applause) First of all, you learn what is your duty; then talk of duty. In your office if you go, if you say, "Anything I do, it is my duty," no. You must know the particular work you are advised to act by the superintendent or the director, not that you can manufacture your duty. If you execute that duty, then you are dutiful. Otherwise, you are simply creating trouble, just like a monkey. They create their duty, and wherever he goes, "Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out!" The monkey's duty is no duty. A man must know what is duty, and he should execute. That is duty.

Indian man (1): As you have explained, Lord Kṛṣṇa (indistinct) Arjuna to do his duty.

Prabhupāda: Well, first of all you try to understand Kṛṣṇa, what He says. Then, if you are dutiful, then you can say who is the other dutiful. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If you come to that stage of life, then you are dutiful. Otherwise, if you create your duties as monkey, that is not duty. (pause) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): (indistinct lengthy question)

Prabhupāda: So, our endeavor should be not to be implicated by the material modes of nature, never mind what is the percentage. This material world is always mixed up—some goodness, some passion, some ignorance. Here you cannot possess the material quality in full, cent percent purity. No. That is not possible. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. One quality is overlapping the other quality. Our business is how to become transcendental to all these qualities, not to be touched by any of the qualities of material nature. That is our business. That should be our aim. Nirguṇa. That is called nirguṇa: no more contaminated by the material qualities. That is called nirguṇa.

And that is very simple thing. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā,

māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yah sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

Māṁ ca avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yah sevate. If one accepts this bhakti-yoga process,

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
(SB 7.5.23)

These are the different nine items of bhakti-yoga. If you take all of them or some of them or at least one of them, you become transcendental to all these material qualities. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān. All these material qualities one can transcend and remain in the Brahman platform, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). This is the process. It is not that we shall possess this quality certain percentage, that quality certain percentage. No. Above all qualities. That should be the aim of life. Then we shall be in the Brahman platform, or in the spiritual platform, and then our life will be successful. Otherwise, struggle for existence, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). We take one type of body according to the contamination of material modes of nature, we suffer or enjoy, then again we die, again we accept another body. In this way it continues, and we remain entangled in this material world.

Indian man (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is said in the śāstra,

ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
(CC Madhya 17.136)

The Kṛṣṇa—His form, His name, His quality, His pastimes, His paraphernalia—cannot be experienced by these material senses. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. He is beyond the indriyas. But if one is engaged in devotional service, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau... That devotional service begins from jihvā, tongue. This tongue means can be utilized in devotional service in two ways, namely by chanting the holy name of God and by tasting prasādam. If first of all one engages his jihvā, means tongue, in devotional service by chanting the holy name, Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and tasting only kṛṣṇa-prasādam, not anything else, then Kṛṣṇa, being pleased by his devotional service, He manifests Himself, reveals Himself. That revelation is experienced, very highly advanced devotee.

So for advanced devotee everything is possible, as described by this gentleman. But that is not for everyone. That is not a common thing. Exceptional. For the common person, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu has advised and as He has practically shown in His life, that is devotional service in separation: "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me (Śikṣāṣṭaka 7): "I am seeing everything vacant because I cannot see Kṛṣṇa." The same thing was followed by the Gosvāmīs. He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ: "Where you are? O Rādhārāṇī, O Kṛṣṇa, O the gopīs, where you are?" He rādhe vraja-devike ca lalite he nanda-sūno kutaḥ śrī-govardhana-pādapa-tale kālindī-vane kutaḥ. Govardhana-pādapa-tale: "Either on the valley of the Govardhana Hill or on the bank of the Ganges, where you are, all?" Seeking. Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. One should be mad after seeking Kṛṣṇa—"Where You are? Where You are?" Not that "I have seen." That is not bhajana. Bhajana means how to become mad after Kṛṣṇa. One who has once heard the tinkling sound of His ankle bell, He'll be mad after Him—"Where You are? Where You are? Where You are?" Not that hearing and becoming engaged in the family affairs. No. That is not possible. One who has seen, one who has heard, he'll become mad—no more interest in this material affairs. That is the sign. We can say. Of course, if you are experienced devotee... But so far we see of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His immediate successors, Gosvāmīs, they are mad after Kṛṣṇa. They never said that "We have seen Kṛṣṇa." This is called bhajana by separation, vipralambha-sevā.

So if we become mad after Kṛṣṇa, that is perfection, not that "We have seen Kṛṣṇa." We may see, but so far the Gosvāmīs are concerned, they are simply seeking. Ghoṣantāv iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair mahā-vihvalau. Vihvalau means mad—"Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa? Where is Kṛṣṇa?" That is self-realization.

Thank you very much. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Haribol. (end)