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701219 - Lecture SB 06.01.34-39 - Surat

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

701219SB-SURAT - December 19, 1970 - 48:51 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (referring to microphone) It does not stand here. Hmm. There are so many ladies.

Guest (1): And there are so many English devotees.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): English devotees.

Prabhupāda: That's all right . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . so the constables of Yamarāja, they are describing the bodily features of the Viṣṇudūta. You can have an idea of the Viṣṇuloka, or Vaikuṇṭhaloka. From this study, we have to understand that there is a spiritual sky, and that is far, far extensive than the material sky.

You cannot even measure the sky covered by one universe, and there are innumerable universes. That is . . . all together, that is one-fourth of the whole sky. It is a rough estimate only, according to the Vedic scripture. And the three-fourths of the sky is spiritual sky.

The population in the spiritual sky is far, far greater than the material sky. Only a few living entities who are rebelled. Just like the population in the prison house is insignificant compared to the whole population of the state, similarly, the living entities who are here in this material world, they are very insignificant.

Including all the universes, all the planets together, they are an insignificant portion of the whole living entities. Ananta. Hy anantāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). The living entities, there is no counting, ananta, unlimited number of living entities. Therefore in the Vedas, the living entities are plural, but God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Then:

sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ
sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ
(SB 6.1.34)

This is another description of the feature. Sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, the inhabitants are always young, just like Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is always young. There is no old age. Old age is here in this material world, because this material body becomes old, not the spirit soul. Spirit soul is always fresh. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. So they are describing that, "You are . . . you look all just very young." And sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ: "And you are beautifully embodied with four hands." Sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ.

(aside) What is that?

Dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ: "And exactly like Viṣṇu, you have got dhanur, bows; and śaṅkha, conchshell; cakra, disc; gadā, club; and ambuja, padma, lotus flower. Everyone." That means everyone in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, they are exactly like the bodily feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa.

This is called sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberation. This liberation, to have the same bodily feature like Nārāyaṇa, is called sārūpya, "the form exactly like Viṣṇu." Sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberations: sāyujya, sālokya, sārūpya, sārṣṭi, sāmīpya (CC Madhya 6.266). So these Māyāvādī philosophers, they prefer sāyujya, to merge into the existence of impersonal existence.

A living entity can live, can remain in the Brahman effulgence as a particle of shining. Just like there are many molecular particles in the sunshine, similarly, the living entities also can cluster together and live as a small particle of spiritual shining, and that is called brahma-sāyujya-mukti (CC Madhya 6.264-265). But that kind of existence is subjected to falldown again.

ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho . . .
(SB 10.2.32)

Because the living entities, they want varieties of enjoyment, but in that impersonal existence there is no varieties of enjoyment, therefore, when they desire varieties of enjoyment, they have come to this material world. So even they merge into the effulgence of brahma-jyotir, there is cause, there is chance of falling. Not all. Some of them may go to the planets, but there is chance.

sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ
sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ
diśo vitimirālokāḥ
kurvantaḥ svena tejasā
kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya
kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha
(SB 6.1.35-36)

"You are so brilliant that immediately on your appearance the darkness is dissipated. Immediately." They are so much, I mean to say, glowing, their body, in Vaikuṇṭha. Therefore in the Upaniṣad it is said that in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sun, moon.

The planets and the bodily effulgence of the inhabitants, they are all glowing. So on account of everything glowing in the spiritual world, there is no necessity of sunshine or moonshine or electricity. They are self-effulgent.

diśo vitimirālokāḥ
kurvantaḥ svena tejasā
kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya
kiṅkarān no niṣedhatha
(SB 6.1.36)

"You are so brilliant, you appear to be very . . ." I mean to say, "enlightened and coming from some planets." Because they had no exactly idea what kind of planet they live. They are simply suggesting that "You must be coming from some very exalted planet. But why you are interfering with our business?"

Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya. Dharma-pāla. Yamarāja's another name is Dharmarāja or Dharmapāla. He is one of the authorities. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the śāstras. Brahmā is one authority, Lord Śiva is one authority and Nārada is one authority. Then Manu is one authority, Prahlāda Mahārāja is authority, Bali Mahārāja is authority, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is authority. So similarly, Yamarāja is also authority. They are authorities who know exactly what is God, or Kṛṣṇa, and they can direct.

Therefore śāstra says you have to follow the authorities. Otherwise it is not possible. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You cannot understand the path of religion by your mental speculation. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma, religious principles, are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No ordinary man can enact dharma.

Therefore there is dharma-viparya. Real dharma, actual dharma, is to abide by the words of the Supreme Lord. That is dharma. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). That is dharma, simply to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not dharma. Man-made dharma is no dharma. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. You cannot manufacture religion. But nowadays it has become fashion. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. Therefore there is dharma-viparya.

So one should know that dharma means the laws given by God. That is dharma. And such dharma, or the path of dharma, is strictly followed by these mahājanas. Just like Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Nārada, Manu, Kapila . . . Kapiladeva, Kapiladeva who enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy . . . Svayaṁbhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kapilo manuḥ, prahlādo bhīṣmaḥ (SB 6.3.20). Bhīṣmadeva is also authority. You know Bhīṣmadeva, the grandfather of the Pāṇḍavas. He is also authority. Prahlāda, Bhīṣma . . . Bali Mahārāja is also authority.

So we have to follow these authorities. Otherwise there is no possibility of understanding what is religion, what is God. This . . . our this sampradāya, Madhva-Gauḍīya sampradāya, they are following the authorities of Lord Brahmā and Nārada. Similarly, there is another sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. Rudra-sampradāya . . . and there is another sampradāya, coming from Lakṣmījī, Śrī-sampradāya, Rāmānuja.

So we have to accept religious principles from the leaders of the sampradāya. Otherwise it is useless. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalā matāḥ (Padma Purāṇa): "If you do not accept mantra initiation from the disciplic succession of the sampradāya, then it will be useless." Sampradāya-vihīnā ye. So people are manufacturing religion without any reference to these authorities.

So diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā. Svena: "By your own effulgence you are dissipating the darkness, all directions. You are so bright, brilliant." Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya: "Oh, we can understand that you are not ordinary living entities. You are coming from some exalted planet. But what business you have got to interfere with our business?" Dharma-pālasya.

śrī-śuka uvāca
ity ukte yamadūtais te
tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ
megha-nirhrādayā girā
(SB 6.1.37)

When they were addressed by the assistants of Yamarāja, then the representative of Vāsudeva, vāsudevokta-kāriṇaḥ, those who are followers of the order of Vāsudeva . . . representative . . .

(aside) Again you have to stand, please.

Tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ megha-nirhrādayā girā. Now, the Viṣṇudūta, they began to speak in a very grave language, just like resounding the cloud. (reads Śrīdhāra Swami commentary) Kim anya-lokasyānyasya prakāśa yat tu tathā bhūta diśaḥ kurvantaḥ bhavatam anuṣitaṁ yam ity āhuḥ kim artham ity āha.

Indirectly, the Yamadūtas said that "You are so exalted, so it is not very good for you to interfere with our business." They politely submitted. And . . . (commentary) Ato daṇḍyādaṇḍya-jñāna-śūnyā iti śaura evākṣnod dhiyā dharma-rājasya kiṅkarā ity anvitaṁ vadanti viṣayena prahasya tān pratyūcuḥ. Now, Śrīdhāra Swami is commenting why they were smiling, these Viṣṇudūta, because the Yamadūtas were criticizing, "Why you are interfering?" The Yamadūtas did not know that whatever action is taken by the representative of Viṣṇu, they are not, I mean to say, unnecessarily interference; they are actual fact.

Therefore they are smiling, that "These Yamadūtas, without knowing our position, they are trying to criticize us." So they were smiling. Prahasya, prahasya. Just like if a child speaks something to a learned man, he smiles. So Viṣṇudūta were smiling, hearing the Yamadūtas.

Meghasya eva nirhrāda hānir yasya prayātaḥ: "They began to speak in grave," I mean to say: "voice, as if the thundering cloud."

śrī-viṣṇudūta uvāca
yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya
yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ
brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ
yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam
(SB 6.1.38)

"You are claiming to be representative of Dharmarāja, Yamarāja." Yamarāja is Dharmarāja. So Viṣṇudūta knows that they are representative. So he challenged . . . the Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūtas, that "You are accusing us that we are interfering with your business which is entrusted unto you by the Dharmarāja, the maintainer of dharma. Would you kindly explain what is dharma and what is adharma?" It is very intelligent answer. Yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya: "If you are actually representative."

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that yei kṛṣṇa tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128): "If anyone is representing as guru, he must know Kṛṣṇa." He must know. Kṛṣṇa cannot be known, but at least . . . just like Kṛṣṇa says, yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9), that . . . one must know Kṛṣṇa in fact, tattvataḥ, in truth. He can become guru. Otherwise, guru is not a . . . so cheap post that everyone can become guru. Similarly, here is the challenge that, "If you are representative of Dharmarāja, you must explain what is dharma and what is adharma." That should be the criterion of test. Not that everyone should be accepted as religious, everyone should be accepted as guru.

This ignorance of the population has created so many nonsense as representing as guru and dharma-jñā. No. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta (SB 11.3.21). The Vedic injunction says, tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, śābde pare ca niṣnātam. One is advised . . . first of all, who will accept a guru?

Guru is not a plaything that, "I must have a guru, and I will never care to obey his order, but because it is a fashion to keep a guru, I shall keep a guru." That kind of guru is useless, and that kind of disciple is also useless. One must seek after a guru—when? When he is inquisitive to understand the transcendental knowledge. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam.

It is not a fashion. It should be very serious: one who is very much eager to understand transcendental knowledge, śreya uttamam. Jijñāsuḥ śreya. Śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. There are two kinds of paths. Preyaḥ means immediate satisfaction or sense gratification, and preyaḥ means spiritual happiness, er, śreyaḥ. Śreyaḥ means spiritual happiness. Just like children, they are interested with playing—that is preyaḥ—whereas the elderly person, they are interested to give education.

So people . . . what is the meaning of this preaching? Why we are taking interest in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because the people in general, they are interested in preyaḥ for their sense gratification, immediate sense gratification. But that is not good for them. Bhāgavata says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4): "Simply for sense gratification, they are committing so many sinful activities. It is like . . . just like madman." A madman does not know what he is doing. Similarly, the materialistic persons, they are so much engrossed and become maddened to commit everything simply for sense gratification. Indriya-prīti.

So Ṛṣabhadeva says: "It is not good. It is very risky life." If we indulge in sense gratification, Kṛṣṇa will give us facilities for sense gratification. Just like a monkey. A monkey has very good facility for sex life. A monkey, every monkey has got at least three dozen wives. Perhaps you know it. So he has been given the facility for sense gratification: "All right." But what is his position? He is a monkey. (laughter) Therefore it is called markaṭa-vairāgya (Cc Madhya 16.238).

Markaṭa-vairāgya means that a monkey is renounced. He does not dress, naked. And he lives in the forest. And he eats also fruit, vegetarian. But the nature is that he must have at least three dozen wives. You see? So the so-called sādhus or so-called vairagis, having illicit sex life very secretly, they are just like monkeys. So Rūpa Gosvāmī has said markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya.

So markaṭa-vairāgya is not necessary. Real vairāgya. We do not indulge in so-called sannyāsī or brahmacārī. If one is unable, he must become a gṛhastha, live like a gṛhastha, and not that "I pose myself as a brahmacārī or a sannyāsī, but I have got illicit sex life secretly." This is markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya is not wanted. Real vairāgya. Real vairāgya means one who can sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is vairāgya. Karma-phala-tyāga—that is karma-yoga. One should give up the result of his fruitive activities to Kṛṣṇa. That is karma-yoga.

Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ (BG 6.1). Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. One who is not desire to enjoy the fruits of his activities, fruitive activities, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, but does it as a matter of duty . . . "Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied by doing this." Kāryam: "It must be done." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, for his personal interest, he was not willing to fight. But when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa wants this fighting," then he took it as kāryam: "It must be done. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not, but Kṛṣṇa wants it. Therefore I must do it."

That is called anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī (BG 6.1). He is sannyāsī. Na niragnir na cākriyaḥ. Niragnir and akriya. Akriya means they are freed, all kinds of fruitive activities. So they are not sannyāsīs, they are not yogīs, but a yogī is he who gives away the result of his activities to Kṛṣṇa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ.

So he is asking . . . Viṣṇudūta uvāca, yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. It is a challenge: "So you are claiming that you are representative of Dharmarāja. So we want to know from you what is dharma." Just like yesterday some gentleman came. He said that he has performed yoga, and he has become Nārāyaṇa. Was not? Was not he speaking?

Guest: He has not come in here. He is not here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So naturally . . . just like somebody says that, "I am God. I have become God by mystic yoga," so one should challenge him, "What kind of God you are? Whenever there is toothache, you go to the doctor immediately. And you are God?" So I have seen. I have seen one man in America. He had some disciples, some.

And he was claiming everyone is God, he is God. And one day he was suffering from toothache. So I asked him, "What kind of God you are, that you are so much painful, suffering from toothache?" And actually, one should challenge these . . . and they are, practically, another kind of lunatic who claim that, "I am God."

So similarly, this challenge is given by the Viṣṇudūtas to the Yamadūtas, that "You are representative of Dharmarāja. Now explain what is dharma and what is adharma." Brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam. Tattva, lakṣaṇam: the symptoms of adharma and the truth of dharma.

kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ
kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam
daṇḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve
āho svit katicin nṛṇām
(SB 6.1.39)

"Now explain who is subjected to the punishment of Yamarāja. You have come here to take away this Ajāmila to the court of Yamarāja. But first of all explain who is actually subjected to go to the court of Yamarāja for being punished."

This is the question, and we shall discuss tomorrow about the answer. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Yamunā: What is adhut? What is the word adhut?

Prabhupāda: Dut? Avadhūta. Paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa stage, the highest stage of perfection. They are not under any rules and regulation, paramahaṁsa.

Yamunā: How does such a person engage?

Prabhupāda: That's a long history. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, sthita-prajñasya. Sthita-prajñā. So there are many symptoms. On the whole, avadhūta or paramahaṁsa is not subjected to any rules and regulation. They are so elevated. That is not to be imitated.

That is a post, position, very exalted, perfectional stage, spiritual advancement. So if you want to know the symptoms, that is in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is a list. But one thing you can simply know, a paramahaṁsa is a stage who is above all rules and regulations. That's all.

Haṁsadūta: (indistinct) . . . disturbed.

Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. That's all.

Revatīnandana: So if he continues to follow these rules and regulations . . .

Prabhupāda: He doesn't follow. He doesn't follow. I can . . . I understand from his behavior.

Revatīnandana: But generally they do follow, in the sense that they generally . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramahaṁsa . . .

Revatīnandana: For setting example for others?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramahaṁsa, they do not come in the society, because the people may imitate and they fall down. Therefore they are aloof. Just like Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja. He was aloof, bhajanānandī. But one who will act as preacher or spiritual master, even if he is paramahaṁsa, he should live ordinarily, so that his disciples may follow. He comes to second stage. Paramahaṁsa is the first stage, and preacher is in the second stage, and neophytes are in the third stage.

So the neophyte should try to come to second stage. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu (SB 11.2.46). They have got discrimination: Īśvara, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tad-adhīna, the devotees; bāliśa, innocent; and dviṣat, those who are atheists, envious of . . . as soon as they hear that "Here is something going on, talking about God," they become immediately envious. We have increased the number of this kind of men. They are no more interested in God. They simply challenge. They are called dviṣat. So a preacher should avoid them. But the paramahaṁsa, he does not avoid.

So there are so many things. So we haven't got to imitate the activities or . . . a paramahaṁsa is a position, exalted position. They are very rare to be visible, because they do not care to come in the society. So . . . and if you want to know about the paramahaṁsa, the sthita-prajñā description in the Bhagavad-gītā, I think, in the Twelfth Chapter, you can know it. Hmm?

Mālatī: Prabhupāda? Can you explain more about preyaḥ and śreyaḥ?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śreyaḥ means ultimate benefit, and preyaḥ means immediate sense gratification. That is called . . . that is the difference between śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. (pause) That's all right.

Revatīnandana: So the transcendentalists are śreyaḥ? And the karmīs and others are . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are after preyaḥ. Those who are after śreyaḥ, they should follow the catur-āśrama, varṇāśrama. The varṇāśrama, according to Vedic system, the four kinds of varṇas, or social caste, and four kinds of spiritual order, āśramas, that is the beginning of preyaḥ. Without this acceptance of these principles, according to Vedic principles, one is not considered as a human being or civilized man. Because that is a system, if we follow that system, gradually we rise to the platform of śreyaḥ. If anyone does not follow regulative principles, it is very hard for him to come to the standard of śreyaḥ.

But in this age, in Kali-yuga, every man is so fallen that he cannot follow any regulative principles according to the Vedic system. As such, they have been accepted as śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ (Skanda Purāṇa): "In this age everyone should be accepted as śūdra." But then how to elevate them? For elevating them, this . . . not the Vedic system is to be followed, but pañcarātriki. Pañcarātriki . . . just like we are trying to elevate these Europeans and Americans according to pañcarātriki-vidhi. Everyone should be followed. It is not that Indians should not follow, only the others should. No. It is for everyone, pañcarātriki-vidhi.

The pañcarātriki-vidhi means that if anyone has got little tendency for being elevated to the śreyaḥ platform, he should be given chance. That is called pañcarātriki-vidhi. Just like dīkṣā, initiation. Śūdras are not given initiation. A śūdra cannot be initiated. Only the brāhmins can be initiated, or dvija, or the vaiśyas and the kṣatriyas, the higher caste, not the śūdras. But according to pañcarātriki-vidhi, even the śūdras or less than the śūdras, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā (SB 2.4.18), everyone can be initiated by a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa; not by others. That is the system.

Devotee: Does one become elevated by following the karma-yoga principles only?

Prabhupāda: It will take a long, long time, and failure is possible. In this age, nothing is possible for the fallen people.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
(CC Adi 17.21)

This is the injunction. If you want to be elevated to the perfectional stage of life, then you must chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. That will help you. No other method, measures, will help you. You can try for it, but there is every chance of failure. But if you follow this path, as enunciated by the śāstras and elaborated by Lord Caitanya, then there is chance. And actually we are seeing that is being done.

Revatīnandana: In the First Chapter, God Realization booklet, First Chapter, Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the process described there where it says that the gross materialists can begin meditating on the syllable oṁ, and then try to contemplate the universal form. That is not recommended for this age, right?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not for the advanced stage. Those who cannot . . . just like the materialistic person, they cannot understand why we are worshiping Deity. They are puzzled. They think, "Why these fools are taking one brass doll and worshiping as God?" They laugh. You see? They cannot understand. They are hard . . . what is called?

It is impossible for them. Therefore they have been recommended that "You think of God, the universal form." That they like, their meditation, that universal form. They cannot understand or concentrate on this form, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara, Śyāmasundara form. They cannot.

But by this arca process we are giving chance to everyone. But for the materialistic person it is difficult. They think that they are idol worshiper. But actually, the Vaiṣṇavas, they are not so fools that they will worship an idol. Therefore they have been recommended to concentrate on the universal form.

Revatīnandana: We always encourage the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. Is that so? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only method in this age. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, one's . . . the reservoir of understanding will be cleared. And then you can receive . . . he can receive the spiritual knowledge. Without cleansing the heart it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha—they are simply the cleansing method.

And bhakti is also cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti. But by engaging oneself in this Deity worship, he also becomes cleansed. Tat-paratve . . . Sarvopādhi . . . as he becomes enlightened, or advanced in understanding that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. He becomes purified. Sarvopādhi means he doesn't . . . sarvopādhi. He tries to eliminate his upādhi, his designation, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that."

So in this way, when you become fully eliminated of this bodily concept of life, then nirmalam. He becomes nirmala, uncontaminated. And so long this concept of life is going on, that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," he's still in the . . . sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ (SB 11.2.47).

Sit down properly, not like that. Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Arcāyām eva haraye . . .

Even in this process, when they are engaged in Deity worship, arcāyāṁ haraye yat-pūjāṁ śraddhāyehate, with great devotion doing, but na tad bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he has no sympathy with others or he does not know what is the position of a devotee, then sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ: "He is called material devotee." Material devotee.

So we have to elevate ourselves from material devotional stage to the second platform, when one can understand what is a devotee, what is a nondevotee, what is God, what is atheist. These discriminations are there. And in paramahaṁsa stage there is no such discrimination.

He sees everyone is engaged in service of the Lord. He does not envy anyone, he does not say anything, anybody. But that is another stage. We should not imitate, try to imitate, but we may know that paramahaṁsa is the highest stage of perfection. (pause)

Just like as a preacher we have to point out . . . just like I told this boy, "You sit down like this." But a paramahaṁsa will not say. A paramahaṁsa, he sees, rather: "He is all right." He sees. But we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. Because we are preacher, we are teacher, we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. We must tell the right source, right course.

Revatīnandana: You must be higher than the paramahaṁsa stage, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I am lower than you. I am lower than you.

Revatīnandana: You are so beautiful. You are paramahaṁsa, but still, you are preaching to us.

Prabhupāda: No, I am lower than you. I am the lowest of the all creatures. I am simply trying to execute the order of my spiritual master. That's all. That should be the business of everyone. Try best. Try your best to execute the higher order. That is the safest way of progressing.

One may be in the lowest stage, but if he tries to execute this duty entrusted upon him, he is perfect. He may be in lowest stage, but because he is trying to execute the duty entrusted to him, then he is perfect. That is the consideration. (break) (end)