760424 - Lecture BG 09.05 - Melbourne

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760424BG-MELBOURNE - April 24, 1976 - 39.25 Minutes



Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Text number five. (leads devotee recitation)

na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni
paśya me yogam aiśvaram
bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-stho
mamātmā bhūta-bhāvanaḥ
(BG 9.5)

(01:36)

So last verse we have discussed, Kṛṣṇa said . . . When we speak "Kṛṣṇa," you should understand "Kṛṣṇa" means God, the Supreme Being. Kṛṣṇa, the etymological meaning is "the all-attractive." Without being all-attractive there is no meaning of God. It is not that God is attractive only to certain class of men. No. God is attractive for all classes of men, unless he is animal. Animal does not know what is God and what is the attraction of God. He does not know. But human being, in the human society, at least in the civilized human society, there is a certain idea of God. Either you follow Christianity or Vedic principle or Muhammadan religion or even Buddha religion, there is conception of God. There is an attempt to understand God. That is human society. Therefore, according to the capability or country and the people, the conception of God may be a little different from one another. But the attraction for God is there. There is no doubt about it.

So God appears in three fundamental features: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
(SB 1.2.11)

So God is realized in three features by the transcendentalists. The first is impersonal Brahman, impersonal Brahman, without any particular form. That is called Brahman realization. Above that, there is Paramātmā realization, localized. As Kṛṣṇa said in the previous verse, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: everywhere there is God. In the heart of everyone, even within the atom, there is God. This is called Paramātmā feature. Localized everywhere, God is there. And then Bhagavān. Bhagavān, personal, the Personality of Godhead, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So in the Supreme Personality, Kṛṣṇa said in the previous verse, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na ca ahaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). That is explained in this verse, that "Everything is resting upon Me. But at the same time," na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni, "they are not also in Me." This particular portion has to be understood. When Kṛṣṇa says, God says, that everything is resting upon Him, that means everything is resting upon His expanded energy, not personally on Him. Personally He is aloof. Therefore it is said, na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni. The same example: Just like when we say everything is resting on the sunshine, that does not mean everything is in the sun, but the sunshine is not different from the sun. Therefore you can say that expanded form, everything is resting on the sun. Try to understand this analogy.

So nothing can exist without God; nothing is, except God; but still, everything is not God. That has to be understood. This is called acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. So the conclusion is, the Māyāvādī philosophy, impersonalists, they say that if God has expanded in everything there is no particular personal existence of God. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. But that is not the fact. Fact is that although God is personal . . . He is person. Just like you are person, I am person, He is person, but He is the Supreme Person. And everything is expanded by His energy. In another place, in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, it is explained very nicely that parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat.

eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner
jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā
parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis
sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.22.53)

It is very clear conception, that the agni, or the fire, is situated in one place, but it has expanded by his . . . Eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner jyotsnā vistāriṇī. Jyotsnā means illumination. Illumination has expanded. That is . . . We can understand, if there is dark place and if there is a fireplace in that dark, immediately there is illumination. That is expanded. Similarly, God is situated in His own place. That is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (BS 5.37). That is God. Although He is situated in His own abode, which is called Goloka Vṛndāvana, He has expanded throughout the creation by His energy. This is explained. Eka-deśa-sthitasyāgneḥ. Agni. Agni means fire. Fire may be situated in one place, but the illumination has expanded. Similarly, God is situated in His own place, but His energy, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ. So whatever you see, that is simply expansion of the energy of God. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Akhilaṁ jagat, whole universe, whatever you are seeing, that is expansion of the energy.

But the Māyāvāda philosophy, they cannot understand. They are less intelligent. Therefore they say, "If God had expanded everywhere, then where is God, person?" No, that is not the fact. The fact is God is person. He is situated in one place, but His energy . . . (child crying) His energy has expanded. Whatever you see in this material world or spiritual world . . . Material world . . . The difference between material world and spiritual world means in the material world we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Material means . . . When we forget God, that is material. And when we know God, existence of God, then that is spiritual. This is the difference between material and spiritual. Just like this temple is spiritual because here there is no forgetfulness of God. Everyone is, every moment, twenty-four hours, they are always remembering God. Therefore it is spiritual world, nirguṇa. If you live in the temple or if you live in God's business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are in the spiritual world. You are not in the material world. Material world means where God is forgotten. That is material world.

So God is expanded by His energies, sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The spiritual world means when His spiritual energy is expanded, that is spiritual world. And when His material energy is expanded . . . Both of them are God energies, but in one energy . . . Just like I will give you again the same example, the government. The government, say, the university department, educational department, and the jail department. The jail department is also government department. It is not that government is absent from the jail department. Rather, government is spending more money for the jail department, more than the government spends on the university department. So both of them are government concern, but one department is full of criminals, and one department is full of learned scholars. This is the difference. Try to understand. You don't think that material world is out of the control of God. It is also under the control, exactly. The jail department is also under the control of the government. So that is the difference, material world and spiritual world. Material world means full of criminals, or against God, or defying the authority of God. And the spiritual world, everyone is accepting the supremacy of God. That is material world and spiritual world.

So here it is said, na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni. Where God is forgotten, that is godlessness. Na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni paśya me yogam aiśvaram. Although they are living within the kingdom of God, still they have forgotten, because they wanted to forget. God is giving us facility that if you want to forget Him, He will give you good facilities to forget Him forever. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). But if you want God, He will give all facilities to come back to Him, back to Godhead. So this is our position in the human form of life. If we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we can do that in this life. And if we want to forget Him again, we have got this chance. If we want to forget Kṛṣṇa, God, then we are again in the cycle of birth and death. That is the beginning of this chapter, Ninth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā:

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani
(BG 9.3)

Two things, that is explained. Aśraddadhānāḥ. What Kṛṣṇa is speaking, the instruction, if we have no faith to believe Him, and if we don't accept it, then the result is that he is losing the chance. He got this human form of life to understand God, but if he is missing this opportunity, then the result will be aprāpya māṁ nivartante. We have come from God. Either you go back to home, back to Godhead, or again we go back to the cycle of birth and death. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. The cycle of birth and death, it is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra. Saṁsāra means tribulation, tribulation, sufferings. Suffering . . . The ultimate suffering is mṛtyu, death. So death, again birth. That is also suffering, although we forget, but to take birth is a great suffering. Great suffering means you have to enter the womb of the mother and you have to grow your body, and there is risk of being killed also. Especially at the present moment they are killing the child in the womb. So just imagine how much suffering it is. And if he is killed, if the child is killed, then his term of imprisonment in that body is not finished. Therefore he has to enter again another body, again enter into the mother's womb. And it may be many hundreds of years may pass on before he can again see light. So it is great suffering.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa presents, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Intelligent person, they should always keep before the sufferings. We are making solution of our suffering for ten years or fifty years or hundred years, because we cannot live here more than hundred years. So that is temporary. I am eternal; you are eternal. Our real suffering is to take birth and remain in the womb of the mother. And even coming out of the womb of the mother, the small children, they feels always uncomfortable. Therefore they cry. The mother cannot understand what is the suffering of the . . . He is hungry, but the mother is thinking that he wants to sleep or misunderstanding the child is uncomfortable. In this way childhood is passed. Then again we become boy, again go to a school, again examination, again this. In this way the whole life is suffering. But under the spell of māyā, we are thinking we are happy. Therefore it is said, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. If we want to get relief from this business of birth, death, old age and disease, let us take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, and take His instruction directly and apply it in life. Your life will be successful. This is the subject matter of this chapter.

So how God is situated, He is explaining. Na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni paśya me yogam aiśvaram. Aiśvaram. Aiśvaram means supremacy, how supreme He is. Everything is resting on Him; still, everything is without Him. That is very easy to understand, that we cannot exist without God's mercy. Without the potency on which . . . This potency is life. Try to understand what is this life. We have got this material body. Material body means . . . This gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, ether. This is the gross body, and the subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. We are situated in this body. Therefore what is this, these energies? It is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore we are situated in the energy, material energy, of the Supreme Lord. We are ourself also energy of the Supreme Lord, marginal energy. So although we are situated in God's energy, we are forgetful. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4): "Everyone is existing on My energy; still, I am not there." "I am not there" means the living entity has forgotten or cannot understand God, that he is within the God's energy, God's material power or energy. Still, he cannot understand.

And another person, na ca mat-sthāni bhūtāni paśya me yogam, bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-sthaḥ (BG 9.5). Bhūta-bhṛt, He is maintaining everyone. But that does not mean that He is one of them. He is also being maintained. That is mistake. This is explained in the Vedic literature, that nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Two kinds of living entities, nityo nityānām. He, the Supreme Lord, is also eternal; we are also eternal. We are plural number, and He is singular number. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. Cetana means with consciousness. We are also conscious, and Kṛṣṇa is also conscious, so He is the supreme conscious. And in another place it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). There are kṣetra-jña. Kṣetra means this body. Kṣetra means this field. So just like a cultivator works on the field and produces his food grains, result of tilling the field, similarly, we have got a particular type of body, field, and I am the tiller of the field; therefore I am owner of the field. In India, of course, you have got small plot of land, and each cultivator owns it, and he produces his own fruit. Similarly, according to our body, we are producing the resultant action and we are enjoying the result. So enjoying the result means in this body we are creating some circumstances, and if it is not possible to enjoy or suffer from the resultant action, then the next life we get another body; we suffer or enjoy. This is going on.

So the living entity is called kṣetra-jña. Kṣetra-jña means one who knows his body. Every one of us, we know. I think, "It is my body." Nobody says "I body." Everyone says "my body," "my finger," "my hand." So therefore he is known as kṣetra-jña: one who knows about his body. So Kṛṣṇa says that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi (BG 13.3). I am proprietor of this body, you are proprietor of your body, but Kṛṣṇa is proprietor of every body. That is Kṛṣṇa. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4). He is in everyone's body. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So Kṛṣṇa, that singular number, eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. So that one singular number, supreme conscious person, Kṛṣṇa, He is maintaining the plural number. Therefore here it is said, bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-stho mamātmā bhūta-bhāvanaḥ.

So whatever flourishing condition we are having in this body or in this life, that is also Kṛṣṇa's mercy. We want Kṛṣṇa. From Kṛṣṇa we want something, and either directly or indirectly. Even if we do not ask him directly, indirectly I desire something, and Kṛṣṇa is within yourself, myself. He understands that "This particular living being is desiring something," so He gives you the facility of whatever you desire. But you do not know whatever you desire, that is the source of your suffering. But you do not . . . We do not accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, that "Do not desire any more." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). He advised that "If you desire, then you'll suffer. I'll give you facility to fulfill your desire; that you will get. But that is not good. You will suffer again, again and again." Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). To fulfill your some desire, if this desire is not fulfilled in this life, then you'll have to accept another body. So another body means you have to enter the mother's womb with so much risk and so much suffering. So, so long you'll desire you'll have to accept, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3), one body after another. And to accept one body, leaving one body, that is very, very miserable condition. That we do not understand but we should understand. Therefore bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-stho mamātmā bhūta-bhāvanaḥ.

So as the living entity is desiring, Kṛṣṇa is giving him the facility. That is explained in another place in the Bhagavad-gītā. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara, the Supreme, He is everywhere. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. We have already explained. So He is within the core of our heart. So whatever we desire, He understands. He is omnipotent, omniscient. He can immediately understand. Therefore it should be understood that there are two living entities. One is Paramātmā and the other is the jīvātmā. Jīvātmā. That is clearly explained in the Bhāgavata, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi (BG 13.3). In Upaniṣad also there is a verse that the two birds are sitting in one tree. One bird is eating the fruit of the tree, and the other bird is simply observing. The observing bird is Kṛṣṇa, or the Supersoul, and the eating bird is the individual soul. So as you desire . . . That is said, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna . . . (BG 18.61). He is sitting with me. He is so friendly that He is giving us guidance always, and He is waiting for the time when you shall give up your desires and surrender to the other bird, the observing bird. That is Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā. Paramātmā is so kind that I am taking the body of human being—He is there. I am taking the body of an animal—He is there. I am taking the body of a demigod—He is there. He is so nice friend, He is always . . . And giving me advice, that "Why you are suffering in this way, creating your desires and suffering? Why you are doing this? Better you stop this. You surrender to Me. Come back to home, back to Godhead." This is . . . He is always asking.

So īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is staying in everyone's heart, and He is omnipotent. He understands what I desire. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). Because I am desiring something, because everything is not fulfilled by this body, therefore I have to accept. Suppose if I want to drink fresh blood. Nowadays they are drinking fresh blood. So Kṛṣṇa says, "All right, you get a body, a tiger's body, a lion's body, and you drink fresh blood. Why artificially? Just take this body." If you have no discrimination to eat anything, so Kṛṣṇa gives us the body of a pig. You can eat anything. Up to stool, you can eat without any difficulty. So . . . or if you want to enjoy like a demigod, so He gives you the same body. This is going on. But this is . . . Either I get the body of a demigod or I get the body of a hog or pig or anything, it is suffering, because I have to give up one body—that is suffering; I have to accept another body. That is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And as soon as I get body, the disease and old age is there.

Therefore any type of body you get . . . Just like in the Western countries, the Americans or Europeans, they think in India that they are very happy. But actually that is not the fact. Everyone is suffering. Anyone who has got this material body, he is suffering, either he is India or in Europe or heavenly planet or this planet. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises that "Even if you go to the planet known as Brahmaloka, where duration of life is very, very long and the facilities or living condition are far, far superior than here," so Kṛṣṇa says, "even if you go to the Brahmaloka . . ." Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16), yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma (BG 15.6). He advises that you come to His place. Don't try to promote yourself in any other planet. Just like they are trying to go to the moon planet, similarly, somebody is trying to go to the heavenly planet or Brahmaloka or Indraloka, Candraloka. That you can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti (BG 9.25). You can go. But all of them are infected with the sufferings, namely the birth, death and old age and disease. So bhūta-bhṛn na ca bhūta-stho mamātmā bhūta-bhāvanaḥ (BG 9.5). So God gives you chances, whatever body you want. He does not prepare Himself, but yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). His agent is this māyā, material energy. And the material energy is conducted under His order. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

So God, Kṛṣṇa, indicates the Supersoul who is situated within your heart. You desire something, and He immediately orders the material nature that "You give him such and such body." Yantra. The body is yantra, machine. This body is a machine. So yantrārūḍhāni. He is seated in one kind of machine, and he goes from one place to another, from one planet to another, from one life to another. This is going on. Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This business is going on. If we want to stop this business, we have got this opportunity, human form of life. We can understand things if we have got little intelligence. And everything is being explained by Kṛṣṇa. If we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction and mold our life accordingly—that is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement—then our life becomes successful. And after giving up this body, we are no more going to accept any material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). We get a suitable body in which we can go back to home, back to Godhead. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25).

So we have to work here. So we can prepare ourself to being promoted to the higher planetary system or lower animal kingdom. We can become pig; we can become hog; we can become demigod; we can become so on, so on. Whatever we desire, Kṛṣṇa will give us opportunity. But that will not make us happy. If we go back to home, back to Godhead, without the tribulation of repetition of birth and death, that will make us happy. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving opportunity to everyone how to go back to home, back to Godhead, after giving up this body. One has to give up this body. That is certain. But why this body should be wasted for propensities like the animals? It should be fully utilized how to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our propaganda, and we base on these authorities of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It is not that we have manufactured it. There is no question of manufacturing. It is authoritative. It is accepted by all the ācāryas. So our request is that you also take this opportunity and be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and next life you go back to home, back to Godhead, and be eternally happy.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (break)

Lady guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you please explain why Kṛṣṇa consciousness hadn't come to the West until now; why it hasn't come earlier?

Prabhupāda: Because you were not born. (laughter) After your birth we have come here to take you back to home, back to Godhead. Now you take the opportunity; come with us.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: We were waiting for your birth. (laughter)

Gurukṛpā: Questions?

Guest (2): How can one strengthen the spiritual will to act plain and live the spiritual life?

Prabhupāda: Spiritual life we are leading here. You can see. We are worshiping the Deity. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. We haven't got to go to the factory early in the morning. This is spiritual life. (break) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, eat sumptuously Kṛṣṇa prasādam, and worship the Deity—that is spiritual life.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can one be in spiritual life without worshiping the Deity?

Prabhupāda: Spiritual life means service to Kṛṣṇa. So if you don't serve Kṛṣṇa, where is spiritual life? That is the difference between material life and spiritual life. In the material life you serve, but you don't serve Kṛṣṇa. Or you serve Kṛṣṇa indirectly, under pressure. But actually when you serve Kṛṣṇa then you are situated in spiritual life.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena ya sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

So spiritual life means to serve Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise material life. Everyone is serving. That is material. Nobody can say that "I am not serving." Everyone is serving. That I have repeatedly said. If he has nothing to serve, then he keeps a dog and serves him. So service is my business. If I don't serve Kṛṣṇa, that is material life. And when we serve Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual life.

Guest (3): I'm asking this question. I'm concerned about the perverted caste system in India today. I'm asking this question on a brāhmaṇa, the varṇāśrama-dharma system. If one of your brāhmaṇa initiated disciples falls from this platform, leaves the temple and commits offenses, then returns, demanding respect, should he be allowed to keep the sacred thread or should he be engaged in menial service, which never fails to cultivate humility?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is to be judged by the spiritual master. You cannot judge.

Guest (3): Well, I'm asking this because . . .

Prabhupāda: You cannot judge who is following, who is not following. That is not your jurisdiction. Therefore he has accepted a spiritual master. His jurisdiction. He'll do whatever necessary.

Guest (3): Has there been a case of, in past history . . .

Prabhupāda: So that case you cannot judge. The case has to be judged by the spiritual master.

Guest (3): Could you give me an example of a case that has been . . .

Prabhupāda: Just like if somebody has done something wrong he is taken to the court and the judge gives his decision, whether he is criminal or not. The man who has arrested him, he cannot give the decision. It has to be tried by the higher authority. Then the judgment will be. Anything more?

Woman guest (1): Do they have Deity worship in any of the other planets in the material universe? . . . (indistinct) . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gurukṛpā: Is there Deity worship on other planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes, every planet. (break) (end).