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760421 - Lecture BG 09.03 - Melbourne

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760421BG-MELBOURNE - April 21, 1976 - 40.15 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (leads devotees in chanting)

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
(BG 9.3)


So aśraddadhānāḥ: those who are faithless. So those who are faithless . . . faithless means, anyone can understand, those who do not believe in the words of God. They are faithless. Just like a child, by nature, he has to believe his parents, his superiors, his teacher. But if he does not believe in the words of the superior, then where is the possibility of education? There is no possibility. This is the first qualification. If you go to a teacher to learn A-B-C-D, the teacher says, "My dear child, you begin from the left side, in this way." Then, if the student says, "Why shall I begin in this way? I shall begin this way," then he's faithless. He cannot make any progress. It is not possible. The first qualification is śraddadhānāḥ, faithful. If you go to a teacher you must be faithful; otherwise there is no need of going to a teacher. If you cannot believe in the words of somebody whom you are going to appoint as your teacher, if you have no faith in his words, then what is the use of going to such teacher? There is no use. Don't waste your time and don't waste his time. Therefore those who are going to learn to become a disciple or teacher, he must believe in the words of teacher. Or if you are doubtful, you should not go to a such teacher. This is first qualification. If you do not believe somebody, then you find out someone else upon whom you can put your faith: "Yes, here is the right man who can teach me." Otherwise there is no use of going to a teacher. This is the Vedic principle.

The Vedic principle is . . . people are . . . everyone is in ignorance, because the evolution is coming from the lower species of life. And in Western countries the Darwin's theory of evolution is very prominent, and they believe that man is coming from monkey. Of course, the Vedic śāstra also says the birth of human being are from three sources: one from the cow, the other from the lion, and the other from the monkey. The "monkey" word is there. Those who are coming in the sattva-guṇa, modes of goodness, their last birth is as cow. And those who are coming through the rajo-guṇa, their last birth is lion. And those who are coming through the tamo-guṇa, their last birth is monkey. Then there are . . . we have explained many times. The lower animals, less than the human being, they're eight million forms.

jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi
sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati
kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ
pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam
triṁśal-lakṣāṇi paśavaḥ
catur-lakṣāṇi mānuṣāḥ
(Padma Purāṇa)

This is the list of evolution. Darwin has taken, but he has explained in a different way, misguiding way. But anyway, the evolution theory—it is not theory; it is fact—that is acceptable by the Vedic scholar also. It is explained in the Padma Purāṇa, aśītiṁ caturaś caiva lakṣāṁs tāñ jīva-jātiṣu. This is the statement in the Padma Purāṇa, that the aśītiṁ caturaś caiva, 8,400,000. They say in the Vedic language, forty-eight hundred thousands . . . eighty-four hundred thousand. Anyway, the evolution is there, and in the lower species of life there are eight millions. Human forms of life, only 400,000 out of which more than 300,000 forms of life are uncivilized men; they do not know what is the aim of life.

The best form of human life, the Āryans. Āryans. Āryans means those who are advanced. So the Āryan family, the history of Āryan family . . . from Central Asia, Caucasian ranges, they divided, the Indo-Āryans, Indo-Europeans. This is the history of mankind. So the Europeans, they belong to the Indo-Europeans, and some of the Europeans—not the uncivilized; the civilized—they came from that side, eastern side, when there was a threatening by Paraśurāma to kill the kṣatriyas. So most of the kṣatriyas, they came to Europe, and some of them settled in the middle, the border of Europe and Asia: Turkey, Greece. There is a big history, Mahābhārata. Mahābhārata means the greater history of India. So on the whole, the conclusion is that the Āryans spread in Europe also, and the Americans, they also spread from Europe. So the intelligent class of human being, they belong to the Āryans, Āryan family. Just like Hitler claimed that he belonged to the Āryan family. Of course, they belonged to the Āryan families.

So there is gradual process of evolution, and the human form of life is the greatest evolution. Here is a junction. Now you can go, elevate yourself to further, higher status of living condition. That is called devatā, or demigods. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ. If you develop the quality of goodness, then you are promoted to the higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. If you do not develop further, if you remain whatever quality you have got, just now you remain within this world. And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ. And if you do not develop goodness or remain in the same quality but you degrade yourself, then again go to the cycle of birth in the animal kingdom. This is the law of nature.

ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā
madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ
adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ
(BG 14.18)

Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthāḥ. Jaghanya means abominable. Abominable; without any distinction: "Whatever I like, I shall do." No. You cannot do that. You have got now superconsciousness. You must decide whether you want to stop this evolutionary process, cycle of birth and death, and go back to home, back to Godhead, or if you want to continue again the cycle of birth and death. That is up to you to decide. This is the human form of life.

Therefore how you can promote yourself to the higher status of life or how you can degrade yourself to the lower status of life, that is to be decided. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find,

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

There are four ways suggested. If you want to go to the higher planetary system, not by force you can go to the moon planet. That is not possible. That is simply childish. You cannot go. You must have to be qualified how to go there. Just like if somebody comes to your country, Australia, he has to take the visa, permit, passport, so many things. Then you allow. So how you can be allowed to enter into the moon planet, which is the residential place of demigods? That is a very controversial point. They say that they have gone to moon planet and there is no life. This is simply nonsense. Every planet is full of living entities. But if they say they could not find any living entities, then it is to be understood they haven't gone to the moon planet. There are many other points also; we do not wish to discuss. But moon planet is the higher planetary system, sun planet is the higher planetary system, and there are many others. If you like to go there, you can go. Yānti deva-vratā devān. You have to make . . . prepare yourself for going there. Similarly, there are Pitṛlokas. You can see so many, many thousands and millions of planets. Every planet is residential quarter. Just like this planet is residential quarter, every planet is resident. Innumerable lives there are according to the position.

So here it is said that aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ (BG 9.3). Kṛṣṇa is giving you a system as you can go to Him, back to home, back to Godhead. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Why one should go to God? No, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). You can go to any other planets. You can have very long duration of life. The standard of living is very, very high. Just like here in this planet sometimes we see the standard of living condition in Europe, America, is better than other places. They become very much clever, that in Europe and America, and Australia also, another addition of European. So big, big roads, big, big skyscraper house, all very comfortable. So as you see differences of standard of living here, similarly, each and every planet there is different standard of living. And it is said in the śāstra that if you go to the moon planet, then you live there for ten thousands of years. Ten thousand of years. And their calculation of time is also greater than ours. It is calculated that our six months is equal to their one day. That is called deva calculation. In this way you can get very long duration of life, very comforts, and nice, beautiful body and residential quarters. Everything is very, very nice. Each higher planetary system is better than the other, better than the other. This way you can go to the Brahmaloka. Brahmaloka mean where the topmost planet. They have calculated, the modern astronomers and the planet-goers, that it takes about forty thousands of years to go to the topmost planet of this universe. So these things are there.

Anyway, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that even if you go to the topmost planet, there is also birth, death, old age and disease. You cannot avoid this. So long you shall remain within this material world, you have to accept these four principles of material condition, that you'll have to die. Either you live for ten thousands of years or ten millions of years, it doesn't matter; you have to die. Even Brahmā dies, who has got many millions of years. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, Brahmā's one day, daytime duration, which is calculated, our twelve hours. There are twelve hours day, twelve hours night. That is twenty-four hours. So Brahmā's one daytime duration, twelve hours ours, is calculated to be forty three hundred thousands of years multiplied by one thousand. Now calculate what is the . . . that is forty three hundred thousands of years.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: 4,000,300,000.

Prabhupāda: Four billion, three hundred years or something like. That is our . . . as our twelve hours, Brahmā's twelve hours is that. Then add twelve hours again, four hundred billion years. That means altogether eight billions of years. That is one day, Brahmā's. Then calculate one month. Then calculate one year. Such hundred years he lives. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Sahasra-yuga-paryantam. One yuga means forty-three lakhs of . . . hundred thousands of years. Sahasra means thousand times. That is . . . everything is stated there. You can learn. You can understand. So that is called Brahmaloka. And it is also stated, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you reach to the Brahmaloka, you can get long duration of life; there is no doubt. But again, punar āvartinaḥ, you have to die and you have to go to another body and another planet. But I am eternal. We are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). By destruction of this body, maybe after two hours or four minutes . . . there are many, many living entities, they live for some minutes, some second, some years. The human in this material world, in this planetary system, we live, say, utmost, hundred years. But in other planetary system they live for millions of years. It is a ques . . . this world is relative. According to your position the relative condition is there. My past and present and future is not the same past, present, future of an ant. The ant's past, future, may be three hours or four hours. Our past, present, means hundred hours, and Brahmā's past, present, millions of years. Everything is relative, according to the position.

So real aim of life is to stop the cycle of birth and death. That is real aim of life. If we do not know this, then we are ignorant. We are ignorant. First of all we must know that "I am eternal." That is . . . in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā it is very nicely explained that antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18): "My dear Arjuna, this body is destructible, but the proprietor of the body, he is eternal." That is the first instruction. I am not this body; I am the proprietor of this body. You are not this body; you are the proprietor of this body. But if we think that "I am body," then that is the same thinking as the dog is thinking. Therefore I have given in the statement that if we think this lump of matter as "myself," then we are no better than the dog. The dog is also thinking like that. That human form of life is meant for understanding that "I am not this lump of matter; I am . . ." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am spirit soul." That is required. The whole Bhagavad-gītā teaching is based on this principle, first of all to understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul, Brahman." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

If from this material conception of life, somehow or other you come to the understanding that you are not this body, lump of matter—you are spirit soul; you are different from this body—that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ state. And as soon as you become on the brahma-bhūtaḥ status, then symptom will be na śocati, prasannātmā—you become happy immediately. Everyone is unhappy in this material world. That's a fact. And because . . . why we are unhappy? Because we have accepted, misaccepted, wrongly accepted this body, "myself." This is the defect of modern civilization. So long you do not understand that you are not this body, you are different from this body, you are Brahman, you are part and parcel of God, then your activities become different. Because at the present moment we are acting on the bodily concept of life: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Australian," "I am white," "I am black," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am this, that"—only this bodily concept of life. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins when you are free from this bodily conception of life. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

Bhakti, this activity, begins when you are brahma-bhūtaḥ. Now, what is the symptom of becoming brahma-bhūtaḥ? That is stated: prasannātmā, happiness, only happiness. There is no question of distress. That is brahma-bhūtaḥ. You cannot say, "Now I have become Brahman-realized, brahma-bhūtaḥ, but I am crying, crying for cigarette." (laughter) No. Immediately test. So you cannot be unhappy: "I have not got this thing, that thing." Because here we are creating wants. Kāṅkṣati. This material civilization means simply creating wants, that's all, big want or small want. That is called kāṅkṣati. And another counterpart of this material life is whatever you have got, if it is lost, then you cry. One side is you are hankering after something which you do not possess, and if your possession is lost, then you cry for the loss. This is two business: kāṅkṣati, śocati. But if you become brahma-bhūtaḥ, self-realized, these two things will be absent immediately. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati.

Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Now there is racial animosity all over the world. You are American; you are Russian; you are Indian; you are Chinese; you are Pakistani. Their fighting is going on on this understanding: "We are Chinese," "We are Americans," "We are Russians . . ." So when you come to the platform of na śocati, not identifying with this body, then samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu—you see everyone on the same platform. You do not see "Here is a Chinese" or "American" or "Australian." You see: "A soul is entrapped in a material body." So material body is lump of matter. We are concerned with the spirit soul. Then samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned paṇḍita, he is sama-darśī. He has no more this vision that "Here is an American."

Just like in our Society you will find people from all parts of the world. There are Americans and Indians and Africans, Canadians, Japanese. But we don't feel like that: "I am Japanese," "I am Indian," "I am American." We all feel servant of Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This is United Nation, not that going to the United Nation and barking like the dog, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this and that." What is the benefit? Therefore they are barking for the last twenty, thirty years. What benefit has come? You cannot make the dogs . . . you bring some dogs from America and from Australia and from India and put them together and ask them, "Please live very peacefully." (laughter) If you keep them as dogs, they will simply bark. There will be no more peace. Just try to understand practically. You have to make them a human being. If you keep them dogs and cats, there cannot be any peace.

This is really knowledge. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving such knowledge that they will never remain a dog or cat; they will become actual human being. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is said, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ. Those who have not faith in this process of understanding, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasya asya (BG 9.3). Now, this is real dharma. Dharma means occupation, I have explained yesterday. I am servant of God, this is my real occupation, but giving up my service to God, I am giving service to māyā. Therefore I am servant of my senses, my family, my society, my country, my nation. And if you haven't got to serve anybody, then I'll keep one dog; I become a servant of the dog. Somebody was just telling me that in Japan the dog passes stool, and the master collects it and put it somewhere. (laughter) Yes. You see? This is going on. Your position is to become servant, but in māyā, in illusion, you are thinking, "I am master." Therefore the best thing is that instead of becoming at last the servant of a dog, just immediately become servant of God. That is your success of life. And if you don't agree, then you have to serve up to the dog, up to the cat. Many Europeans, Americans, they have no children, but they keep one cat, one dog, to serve. You see? But you have to serve, because you are meant for that.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu's philosophy is that. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). That is our permanent situation—we are servant of God. I have explained yesterday that we are part and parcel of God. Now, as part and parcel of God, what is our duty? The example I have given. Just like the finger is the part and parcel of my body. So what is the duty? As soon as I say, "Finger, please come here," it comes. "Finger, come here. Do this, do that, pick up." This is finger's business. A finger cannot remain independent. Or if the finger cannot give the service properly, then it is diseased. Similarly, our material condition means we are in diseased condition. We are not giving service to God; we are giving service to the dog. This is our diseased condition.

So God is Himself explaining how you should live. That is Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore it is said, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa (BG 9.3): "My dear Arjuna, if somebody has no faith in My words . . ." Then what will be the result? The result will be, aprāpya mām: "He'll not get Me." Aprāpya means "not getting Myself." Then what he will get? Aprāpya māṁ nivartante: "Again he goes back." Instead of going back to home, back to Godhead, he goes back to where? Now, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3): "Again in the cycle of birth and death." Again cycle of birth and death. Suppose in this human form of life you can make your life so perfect that immediately after death, after giving up this body, you go back to home, back to Godhead. You regain your eternal life. But if you misuse this human form of life, do not endeavor for going back to home, back to Godhead, then again go back to the cycle of birth and death. This is nature's law. You are not independent. Nature is working like that.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

You are thinking foolishly, as a rascal, that you are independent. You are not independent. You are completely under the control of material nature. Now, in this human form of life, there are two ways: you go back to home, back to Godhead, or go back to again to become a pig, hog and tree and plant. This is the plan of Bhagavad-gītā.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (break)

Woman guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying about misusing this human form of ours. Is there any gracious defense that makes our soul non-eternal? You were mentioning about Hitler. It seems that he has committed a lot of sins. Would you say that he would still have eternal life?

Prabhupāda: Hitler or anyone, if he does not take advantage of this human form of life for going back to home, back to Godhead, he'll be put into again in the cycle of birth, maybe different forms of body.

Woman guest (1): I have another question. You were talking about the planets, the planetary systems. The planets in our solar system, are they in the middle planetary systems or the lower planetary systems?

Prabhupāda: (aside) What is the question about planetary system?

Gurukṛpā: This planet, where is it situated in the planetary system.

Prabhupāda: You cannot understand it? The whole planetary system is just like a big tree, and there are many fruits. So here, this planet is one of the fruits of the planetary system whole.

Woman guest (1): The planets in our solar system, I mean.

Prabhupāda: Yes, astrology. Astronomy. There is planetary system. It is the Vedic system. You can see at night: the whole planetary system is moving like this, bunch of tree. And in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham (BG 15.1). This, it is just like a big tree, and the root is upwards and the branches and fruits downwards. This is the . . . the polestar is the center of this root of this planetary system. So you read our books, Fifth Canto, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you will get full description.

Woman guest (1): I'm sorry . . . you were talking about the higher planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't you see higher planetary system? The sun planet, the moon planet. They are not higher, on your top? There are many others, many others, millions. These are prominent. According to the Vedic system, the moon planet is higher than the sun planet. So these descriptions are there in the Fifth Canto. I shall request you to read them to understand.

Woman guest (1): Thank you.

Guest (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when Kṛṣṇa is perfect and complete in Himself, so why are there the individual minute living entities? If Kṛṣṇa is perfect, surely there would be no need for smaller living entities.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gurukṛpā: If Kṛṣṇa is perfect and complete, then why does He need little entities like us?

Prabhupāda: So a high-court judge, why his son becomes a loafer?

Guest (2): Hmm?

Gurukṛpā: If there is a high-court judge and he has a son, why does the son sometimes become a loafer?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest (2): I do not know.

Prabhupāda: Is it guaranteed that because one is son of high-court judge, he'll also become a high-court judge? There is no such guarantee. Everyone is individual. We are sons of God, that's all right, but we have got little independence. If we misuse our independence, then we become lower. Kṛṣṇa is perfect, there is no doubt, but we are part and parcel of. Just like another example: There is a fire and there are sparks of fire. The sparks are very little, small fire particle. Sometimes they fall down from the fire and becomes extinguished. The fiery quality is lost. Similarly, we are all parts and parcel of God, but when, by misusing our intelligence, our independence, we come here in this material world to enjoy, our godly qualities becomes lost. Again if you revive, then you go back to home, back to Godhead.

The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to help people how to revive his God consciousness. Again goes back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). It is clearly said. If simply one tries to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, or God, and if he actually understands, then after giving up this body he is no more going to accept any material body. He goes back to home, back to Godhead. Why don't you try for that? Try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. You take this Bhagavad-gītā as it is and read it regularly, you will understand Kṛṣṇa—life is successful. You have asked one question. Any more? What is your question?

Woman guest (1): What is the purpose of so many nationalities on this earth?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gurukṛpā: What is the purpose of so many nationalities?

Prabhupāda: If I say . . . I have already said, doggish mentality, that's all. You remain dog, go on barking. (laughter) That's all. What is this national? "I am American. My first interest . . ." "I am Australian," "I am Indian," "I am Pakistani." They are barking in the United Nation, that's all. This is the benefit. Bark and bark and die like dog, that's all. Better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: All right, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!(end)