680603 - Lecture BG 07.03 - Montreal

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



680603BG-MONTREAL - June 03, 1968 - 62:58 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a science which is not for all. It is for all—it is very easy and sublime—but at the same time, the spell and strength of māyā is so strong that she does not allow to accept this very easy, at the same time sublime, spiritual process. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that out of many hundreds of thousands and millions of people, somebody is interested in spiritual realization. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu. Out of many hundreds of thousands people, one is interested.

This is not only in this age, but in the material world that is the disease. Nobody is interested in spiritual realization. That is material disease. And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). And amongst persons who are trying to get perfection in spiritual realization or have actually understood spiritual identity, out of them many, out of many such, I mean to say, elevated, wise men, somebody may know what is Kṛṣṇa.

But Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He wants to make Himself known to everyone. That is His mercy. Kṛṣṇa is more anxious to accept us than we are anxious to accept Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes in His person as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Sometimes He sends His representative, sometimes He sends His son, bona fide devotee, and sometimes He comes as a devotee Himself to canvass, "Please come to Me. Please come to Me." Kṛṣṇa is so kind.

So in the Bhagavad-gītā we find that Kṛṣṇa Himself came and canvassed through Arjuna that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "My dear Arjuna . . ." Not only Arjuna. Arjuna is representative of the living entity. So He is appealing to all living entity, especially all human being anywhere and everywhere, that "You just surrender unto Me, come unto Me, and then I shall get you relieved from all sinful reaction of your life." Ahaṁ tvaṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi.

Now, just see Arjuna. He's Kṛṣṇa's personal friend. He's always with Kṛṣṇa. He's eternal associate. He's talking with Kṛṣṇa. Just imagine his position. Still, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo: "I shall get you relieved from all sinful reaction." This means that a person like Arjuna, who can talk face to face with Kṛṣṇa, is supposed to have sinful activities of life. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo: "I shall get you relieved from all sinful reaction"? That means even Kṛṣṇa . . . even Arjuna was subjected to sinful activities.

This world is so made that even if we do not want to be sinful, the circumstances is so made that we'll be obliged to commit sins. It is such a place. Therefore in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that this place is padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. This material world is full of danger in every step. There is a very nice verse:

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ
mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ
bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ
padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām
(SB 10.14.58)

It is very nice poetry. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in every verse there is poetic genius. Now, you see in this verse, vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. The padaṁ padam. You see? Anuprāsa. What is called in English, the same word repeated?

Janārdana: Alliteration.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see, vatsa-padaṁ padam, paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ vipadām . . . that is also padam. You see? Nicely made. So the meaning of this verse is that . . . bhavāmbudhiḥ. Bhavāmbudhiḥ means this material nescience, ocean of nescience. It is a ocean of ignorance, nescience. This is called bhavāmbudhiḥ. But one has to cross over this nescience, ocean of nescience. And how to cross over? Now, samāśritaṁ pada-pallavam. One who has taken shelter of the lotus feet as the boat for crossing over this ocean of nescience, for him, bhavāmbudhiḥ, this great ocean, becomes vatsa-padam.

Vatsa-padam means a, just a . . . you have no such experience. In India, in village, during rainy season the cows and the calf pass on the roads, and there is impression, and there is some water. That is called vatsa-padam, water in the pot or in the hole impressed by the hoof of the cow and calves. That water, anyone, such hundreds of water spot one can cross very easily.

Similarly, if anyone takes shelter of the boat, the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, for him this great ocean of nescience becomes just like vatsa-padam. That means very easily one can cross. And this place . . . padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām: "This material world, where in every step there is danger, this place is not for them." For whom? "One who has taken shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa."

But unfortunately, we take this ocean of nescience as very pleasant place. This is the spell of māyā: where there is danger in every step, but we are thinking that we are very happy, we are advancing in material civilization, and, as far as we can imagine, that we are very prosperous and everything. This is called māyā. He cannot appreciate that in every step there is danger in this material world.

Take, for example, just like I am coming from Boston here by aeroplane. It is very nice discovery. But as soon as you get on the aeroplane, every second there is danger—because there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee. So similarly, we may crossing over the street . . . oh, there is danger. Recently in Delhi one of our Godnephew, oh, he was crushed by motor accident, completely crushed. He fell down, and the motorcar passed over him, and all the bones were crushed. I have received that letter.

So we should know that this place is not at all safe. At any moment there is danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām. Therefore in the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's version it is said that "If you want to have spiritual realization, then you should always think that 'Death is coming, and danger is coming immediately.' " That should be our attitude.

And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said that those who are intelligent person, those who are making progress to become wiser, for them four things should be kept always in view. What is that?

Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-dosanudarśanam (BG 13.9). We may think very . . . that we are very safe and we are making good advancement in economic development, but there is no solution for these four problems, as enunciated by Bhagavad-gītā, janma, mṛtyu, jarā, vyādhi. Oh, there is no solution for birth. There is so much attempt for birth control all over the world, but still, in every minute or in every second some percentage of population is increasing.

Janma, mṛtyu. Similarly, there are so many attempts to discover scientific measures to stop death, but it is not possible; death is taking place. Rather, in the present age, death is taking place earlier than in years before. Formerly people were living, say, hundred years, eighty years, ninety years, and nowadays a man is living, utmost, seventy years, sixty years. If a man lives for eighty years, then he is considered to be very . . .

But time will come, as we get information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that at the end of this age, Kali-yuga, if a man lives for twenty to thirty years he'll be considered as the grand old man. So practically we are not making any progress. And materially it is not possible to make any progress. It is . . . that is called māyā, illusion. We are actually not making any progress, but we are thinking that we are making progress. This is called spell of māyā.

But the real problem is that we should understand that this place is full of danger, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is certified, this place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is full of misery and aśāśvatam. Even if you accept, "Oh, let it be miserable. I don't mind. I shall remain here . . ." People say frankly that "We don't want any other world. We don't want . . . don't believe in it, heaven" or "We don't believe in Vaikuṇṭha. We want to make ourself happy in this world." They say.

But from authorities like Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā, we understand that this place is meant for suffering. This is called duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. Even if we agree to live in this miserable place . . . because everyone, we want to live. Nobody wants to die. Nobody wants to die. Suppose we are sitting here, and if there is some death signal, oh, we shall at once flee away from this place, if there is fire, because we do not want to die. That is a fact. So . . . but this place is certified by Kṛṣṇa as duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15): "It is place of misery; at the same time, it is temporary." Temporary.

As today we . . . I entered in your country, Canada, for the first time, and the time limit was given there by the immigration that "You cannot live here or stay here more than this time," similarly, even if I think, "Oh, Canada is very nice place. Montreal is very nice place. Let me stay here," oh, the immigration department will not allow me to stay.

Similarly, if you think that "This material world is very nice. Let me stay here," oh, the higher authorities . . . there are higher authori . . . just like there are authorities in the immigration department, similarly there are higher authorities in the management of these worldly affairs. Yamarāja, oh, he'll not allow you to stay. You have to change your body.

Actually a living entity is eternal, but the problem is that he is changing body. Just like either I may live at Canada or USA or India—I shall live somewhere—but nobody will allow me to stay. Except in my own country, nobody will allow me to stay for long time. Similarly, this is not your place. This material world is foreign country for you, this material world. We belong to the spiritual world. We belong to the world where life is eternal, where life is blissful, and where there is no ignorance.

Just like Kṛṣṇa's body is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā and other Vedic literature that īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ means His body is made of spiritual eternity, sat; and cit, full of knowledge; and ānanda, and full of bliss. In the Vedānta-sūtra also, it is stated about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or the Absolute Truth, as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: "By nature He is full of bliss, the Absolute Truth, Absolute Person."

You see the Kṛṣṇa's picture, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). He's enjoying in blissfulness. This Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, this is enjoyment, but this enjoyment is not like here, the young boys and girls, they enjoy. It is not like that. Because here the ānanda is temporary, it is not eternal, but that ānanda, rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtiḥ, is eternally blissful. So Kṛṣṇa is canvassing everyone that, "You come to Me. Here also you will have this eternal ānanda, eternal blissfulness." You are after loving affairs, but here in this material world, actually there is no love. It is only lust. And even if we accept that this is love, it will not exist. It will be finished.

Therefore in Vedic literature we find that ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29): "Those who are yogīs, those who are transcendentalist . . ." They also . . . every one of us are seeking after pleasure, ānanda, but the yogīs, either these jñāna-yogī, dhyāna-yogī or karma-yogī or bhakta-yogī . . . there are different kinds of yogīs, but the yogī means the person who wants to connect himself with the eternal happiness. That is called yogī: one who is not satisfied with this temporary, material happiness.

Just like Śaṅkarācārya, he also says that, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "You are trying to derive pleasure from this material world, but it is false." He also says. If you want real pleasure, then brahma-saukhyam—you have to seek pleasure in the Brahman. Similarly, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, He says . . . he's instructing His sons, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam (SB 5.5.1). He's advising His sons. "His sons" means everyone, He's advising. What is that?

na ayaṁ dehaḥ deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
kaṣṭān kāmān arhati yad viḍ-bhujām ye
(SB 5.5.1)

"My dear sons, this human form of body is not meant for continuously hard labor simply for sex enjoyment." Simply for sex enjoyment. Because in this material world, the enjoyment, the highest enjoyment one can perceive, that is sex. Therefore in the material world those who are materialists, they are trying to exact happiness simply by that sex life.

You'll find so many pictures—naked pictures, this picture, that picture. Why? Because they have no other information of happiness. That is the happiness. They have no other information. In many places this sex enjoyment is deplicated. In another place it is stated, yan-maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The gṛhamedhi, the so-called family men, they are working hard, so hard. Why? Because they have got that point of happiness, sex happiness. That's all. Another poet, he's singing, a Vaiṣṇava poet:

śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa
ei dina jāminī jāgi re
biphale sevinu kṛpaṇa durajana
capala sukha labha lāgi' re
(Bhajahū Re Mana verse 2)

Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa. Now, those who are working, oh, they have no consideration that there is snowfall or there is scorching heat. Śīta ātapa, bāta, severe cold, and bariṣaṇa means heavy torrents of rain. Oh, he has to go to the office and work. Śīta ātapa, bāta bariṣaṇa, ei dina jāminī jāgi' re. Night duty. These are severe type of laboring. And the poet says, śīta ātapa, bāta bariṣaṇa, ei dina jāminī jāgi re. Why? Now, biphale sevinu, kṛpaṇa durajana, capala sukha labha lāgi' re: "For that momentary happiness I am working so hard."

So everywhere in the Vedic literature this life, this materialistic way of life, is condemned. Is condemned. So Ṛṣabhadeva says that "This life is meant for tapasya." Tapaḥ. Tapaḥ divyaṁ putrakā: "My dear sons, you are so . . . if you think that this human form of life is meant for, oh, sex happiness and working day and night so hard, oh, this life is not meant for that purpose. That is visible in the cats' and dogs' and hogs' life. They are also laboring the whole day and satisfied by sex life. So your life is not meant for that."

Then what it is meant for? He says, tapaḥ, "It is meant for tapasya, austerity, penance." "Oh, you are . . . we are taking so much pains also." Don't you think these materialists, they are earning, they are making so improvement without any labor, without any tapasya? No. They are also laboring. They are undergoing, I mean, severe austerity. That's nice. But here it is said, tapaḥ divyam: "You have to undergo austerities and penance for God realization." Divyam. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā (SB 5.5.1).

Why? Why not this material world? Why God realization? The . . . it is very nicely stated that tapo divyaṁ yena sattva śuddhyet: "If you accept this tapasya, or austerity, for God realization, then your existentional position will be purified." At the present moment, due to my material conditional life, because I have got this material body, therefore my pleasure . . . I am hankering after pleasure, but whatever pleasure I am acquiring, that is not permanent, or flickering, or simply illusion. But that hankering after pleasure is your constitutional position.

Because you are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, who is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), who is by nature blissful, and you are part and parcel of that blissful Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore your nature is also blissful. That is a fact. But you are seeking pleasure or blissfulness in a place where it is not possible. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattva (SB 5.5.1). And by purification of your existentional position, the result will be yasmād brahma-saukhyam.

Brahma means the greatest. Greatest. Bṛhatvād bṛhannatvād iti . . . Brahma means the greatest, and who comes in contact with Brahma, he also becomes greatest. That is called Brahma. So if you accept austerity in this life and don't behave like cats and dogs and hogs, simply for sex pleasure, then the result will be that your existence will be purified, by which you'll realize eternal happiness, anantam, which has no end—no beginning, no end. Actually it is so.

So this knowledge of brahma-saukhyam is . . . in so many ways they are instructed in Vedic literature. We have got volumes and volumes of Vedic literature. The first, we have got the four Vedas. Then we have got the Upaniṣads. Then we have got Vedānta-sūtra. Then we have got Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and so many. And one book, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it contains eighteen thousand verses. Mahābhārata contains hundreds of thousand verses. There are eighteen Purāṇas and 108 Upaniṣads and Vedānta-sūtra—immense literature for understanding what is brahma-saukhyam.

So these literatures are meant for the human society, not for the cat society, dog society. The great sages of India, especially Vyāsadeva, he labored so hard and delivered so valuable literatures to us. There is opportunity. It was the duty of India to distribute this knowledge all over the world, this immense treasure of knowledge. Unfortunately . . . and as so far we have studied that persons who are great thinkers, they were expecting. They have still some respect for India's great treasure house of the spiritual knowledge. But unfortunately there is no arrangement for distributing this spiritual knowledge all over the world.

Anyway, we are just making our teeny effort for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing, is simply a drop in the ocean of these great literatures. Just like there is vast Atlantic Ocean in front of your country, and if you take one drop of Atlantic Ocean water and taste it, then you can understand at least what is the taste of this Atlantic Ocean. That is a fact. If you are intelligent enough, by tasting one drop of water of the Atlantic Ocean you can understand that the taste of the Atlantic Ocean is salty.

Similarly, this Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature, just like milk is the essence of the blood. Blood . . . the milk is nothing, but it is cow's blood transformed. Just like mother's milk. The mother's milk, wherefrom it comes? It comes from the blood, but transformed in such a way that it becomes nutritious to the child, tasteful to the child. Similarly, cow's milk also, a most nutritious and valuable food. So it is compared that this Bhagavad-gītā is the milk of the cow of Vedic literature. And the milkman is Kṛṣṇa Himself. And the drinker of the milk is we are—Arjuna, through Arjuna. So these things are there.

So this Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of the Atlantic Ocean of Vedic literature, and this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting the . . . that taste of Bhagavad-gītā to the world as it is, without any interpretation. Just like milk, if you get it directly from the milk bag of the cow and taste it, you'll find very nice. But if you take it and adulterate with something, water, then it is not so tasteful. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā, if you understand as it is, then you can have the taste of the milk.

But as there are many rascal commentators . . . I say straightly that those who comment on Bhagavad-gītā according to their own whims, they're all rascals. Just like milk, if you adulterate with water, the taste is gone, and the man who adulterates milk with water, he's a rascal. He's condemned. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā, if you taste as it is, oh, then you'll relish what is that Vedic knowledge, what is that essence of brahma-saukhyam. You can understand.

So, many people in America, since I came here they asked me to recommend an edition of Bhagavad-gītā in English. There are so many editions of Bhagavad-gītā in your country. Some of them are compiled by your countrymen, some of them compiled by Indians, but all of them different interpretation. Different interpretation. But we should not accept Bhagavad-gītā in different interpretation. We should accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then we can relish.

So we shall very shortly present our Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. It has been taken by Messrs. Macmillan and Company to publish it. Most probably in the month of October it will be published. So I shall request you to read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any interpretation. Just like I'll give you some examples. The first verse of Bhagavad-gītā is stated as follows:

dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre
samavetā yuyutsavaḥ
māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva
kim akurvata sañjaya
(BG 1.1)

The first word is dharma-kṣetra. The second word is kuru-kṣetra. Now, the meaning is that Kurukṣetra is a place which is considered as the holy place of pilgrimage. Now, this dharma-kṣetra, kuru-kṣetra, is still present. Even in the modern day, if you go to India, it is about hundred miles from New Delhi. There is a place, Kurukṣetra, and which is, according to Hindu rites, Vedic rites, that is a place of pilgrimage. Many people go there, to the sacred place. And in the Vedic literature it is stated that kuru-kṣetre dharmaṁ yājayet: "If you want to perform religious rites, then you should perform at Kurukṣetra."

So Kurukṣetra is a place of pilgrimage; that is a fact. But unfortunately, even a great man like Mahatma Gandhi, he comments that "Kurukṣetra means this body." "Kurukṣetra means this body." Now, wherefrom he got this meaning, "Kurukṣetra means this body," which is that dictionary, I do not know. But he has interpreted in that way. Similarly, in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book also the translation is . . . Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65): "My dear Arjuna, you just always think of Me, you just become My devotee, you just offer your all obeisances unto Me, and the result will be that you'll come to Me, without any doubt." That means you'll come to the spiritual planets.

So "come to Me . . ." Kṛṣṇa lives in Vaikuṇṭha or Goloka Vṛndāvana. These are Vedic literatures' statement. So how you go to Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa was there. So what is meant by "come to Me undoubtedly"? Oh, he has . . . he was already there before Kṛṣṇa. Arjuna was already there. What does it mean, "come to Me"? That He has got His own place. That is also stated in the Bhagavad . . . mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate (BG 9.25): "Anyone who comes to My place, My abode, he never goes back."

So in this way, if we accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is . . . but this special verse, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, is interpreted by Dr. Radhakrishnan, "It is not up to Kṛṣṇa that we have to surrender." Now see. Kṛṣṇa says, "directly unto Me," but he says: "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." In this way, in different books you'll find different kind of interpretations. Why? The Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book, and if one has got some nonsense idea, he wants to put forward that nonsense idea through Bhagavad-gītā.

This is going on. But if you want to taste Bhagavad-gītā, then you should accept as it is. Then you'll relish and you'll get the benefit. By reading of Bhagavad-gītā, or the essence knowledge, quintessence of all Vedic literature, if you want to taste, just read Bhagavad-gītā as it is and you will be benefited.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and in a practical way. Just like we are recommending the members of the Society to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14): "Those who are mahātmās, great souls, they are always engaged in glorifying Me." Satatam. Satatam means always. And who is a mahātmā? Oh. We have got conception that Mahatma Gandhi, a great politician, he is called mahātmā. But in the Bhagavad-gītā the definition of mahātmā is different. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13): "One who is mahātmā, he is not under the control of this material nature. He is under the protection of the spiritual nature." Daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ.

And what is the difference between a person under the spell of this material nature and one person under the protection of spiritual nature? That is also stated there, that mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanti mām ananya-manaso. The test whether a man is under the protection or under the punishment of this material nature or he is under the protection of spiritual nature is tested in this line. What is that?

That mahātmā, who is under the protection of spiritual nature, his business is to render transcendental loving service to Kṛṣṇa. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśri . . . bhajanti mām ananya-manaso. Ananya-manaso means "without any deviation." He has no other business than to glorify Kṛṣṇa, and that is specifically mentioned, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). These things are there. And the result is that ultimately, if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious fully, then you become transferred from this material world to the spiritual world. That is also stated in the Eighth chapter . . .

(break) . . . loke tyajanty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). So if one dies . . . it is not for simply Kṛṣṇa conscious man. It is true for everyone that at the moment of his death, whatever he is thinking of, his next life is going to happen like that.

So if you practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness while you are strong enough, then naturally, at the time of your death, when everything is oblivion . . . because at the time of death you do not know what is the condition of my health, of my body. But therefore, if I practice . . . this is called abhyāsa-yoga. Abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gaminaḥ (BG 8.8). If one practices this yoga process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then paramaṁ puruṣam adyam—he can attain, he can arrive the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). If one goes to that place, he hasn't got to come back again to this miserable world.

So Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is the greatest gift to the human society. Those who are fortunate enough, they'll take advantage of it. It is not a fiction. It is not a bogus propaganda. But it is fact; it is authorized . . .

(break) . . . of life. And out of many millions of perfected life, one can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is . . . in one side it is very difficult to understand, but at the same time, it is very easy to prosecute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

And because it is very easy, because we are recommending that "Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll get the greatest perfection," they cannot believe it. If I would have prescribed some gymnastic process and if I would have charged fifty dollars for some secret mantra, then your countrymen would have followed me. Because it is presented very simply, although it is very sublime, we don't get any followers.

Anyway, whatever . . . in a . . . there is a proverb in Bengali that "It is better to keep the cowshed vacant than to have a troublesome cow." Cow . . . of course, in your country there is no system of cow-keeping. In India at least every householder, at least in the villages, they have got a cow, and not one, but at least one dozen, half a dozen. So it is said that "Instead of keeping a troublesome cow who will not deliver any milk, it is better to keep the cowshed vacant."

So we shall be satisfied . . .

(break) . . . followers. We are not after many followers. But we want that anyone who comes in contact in this movement may take this movement seriously, try to understand it with all scrutinization, and he'll find it is very sublime and the best, simplest method for spiritual realization.

Thank you very much. Any question?

Guest: Now, when we use the word "natural," though we usually refer to it as "according to the laws of nature." But a person who's also "natural," would he not come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or would he not pursue Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Would he not achieve any . . .

Prabhupāda: There are two kinds of natural sequences. Just like this water is liquid. This is natural. But this water becomes solid also. It becomes ice. That is also natural. So which one is actual natural? Liquidity. Liquidity is actual natural. And to turn into ice, solid, that is temporary natural. So there are two kinds of natural. One kind of natural . . . just like we have got this body. This is also natural, but it is temporary natural. But we are eternal, and when we get our eternal existence, that is our real natural. Is that all right?

So we are now in artificial natural. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). We are getting our body and finishing. So we have to transfer from this nature to the other nature, spiritual nature. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said:

mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha
daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ
(BG 9.13)

Prakṛti means nature. So those who are mahātmās, great soul, they transfer themselves to the other nature, spiritual nature.

So if you transfer yourself to the spiritual nature, that is your real life. Now I am in the artificial or temporary nature. Not artificial, but temporary. I want to live eternally. I don't want death. But it is not possible, because I have got this temporary nature. That I was explaining this, that yena śuddhyet sattva. When your existential position will be purified, then you get your . . . and the whole process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is purifying process. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12, Śikṣāṣṭaka 1).

It is all purifying process. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Purification means now we have got so many designations. So when we shall be freed from all designation and simply understand that, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," that is my natural position.

This is very important question. It is clear?

Guest: Yeah. I was thinking in terms of spiritual nature being the real nature.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual nature . . . I am actually spiritual nature, but I am now in material nature. So I have to revive my position in the spiritual nature.

Guest: When the person, by following his temporary nature, realizes he can't find satisfaction but he has to turn to spiritual nature . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. That dissatisfaction is always there. Just like if a animal or a living entity is put into the water, the however expert swimmer he may be, it is struggle. In the water . . . that . . . because that is not his natural position. The same man, if he is taken over the water, one inch over the water, he feels relief immediately. And if he is put into the land, then he's perfectly relieved.

So therefore Lord Caitanya offers His prayer to Kṛṣṇa, ayi nanda-tanuja patitaṁ kiṅkaraṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau (CC Antya 20.32, Śikṣāṣṭaka 5): "My dear Lord Kṛṣṇa, I am Your eternal servant. Somehow or other, I am now fallen in this ocean of nescience." Kṛpayā tava pāda-paṅkaja-sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya: "Kindly pick me up from this ocean of nescience and fix me as one of Your dust of the lotus feet." You see?

So that should be our prayer, that . . . this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa is also prayer. Hare means "O the energy of the Lord," and Kṛṣṇa means "O the Lord, Supreme Personality of Godhead, please take me out of this ocean of nescience and fix me up in Your eternal, transcendental service." This is the prayer.

So any other question?

(pause)

Anyway, you are maintaining this institution. Thanks to you. (chuckles) Although the assembly is not as great as the hall, (laughs) but still, you are maintaining. It is nice. So our Indian brothers, they do not participate in this meeting? No. So it is past nine. We can have saṅkīrtana for few minutes. No other question from anybody?

This is newly partitioned?

Janārdana: It's not quite finished yet. Recent. It will be much nicer . . . (indistinct) . . . is going to paint frescoes on it, so it will be all decorated with opulent frescoes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Janārdana: The temple area used to be the front part.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Janārdana: The front part . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Janārdana: . . . of this area used to be the temple area.

Prabhupāda: Nice. If this . . . the only difficulty is it is upstair. That doesn't matter. Those who are interested to come, even upstairs they will come. Those who are not interested, even in the downstairs they will not come. Those who are after water, they will find out water. "Where there is a will, there is a way." But those who are not thirsty, for them . . . how many students are coming per week?

Janārdana: Many.

Prabhupāda: In each meeting?

Janārdana: Well, sometimes only initiated devotees are here, and sometimes there are three people, sometimes six. It depends.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Janārdana: But I think now that Swāmījī is here we'll have many more people coming.

Prabhupāda: You can send information that I have come. You can little make advertisement. Yes.

Janārdana: Sometimes we have . . . on Janmāṣṭamī we had about two hundred people here.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, that's nice. No, it can be utilized very nicely. The place is nice. So let us do our duty. It is . . . we have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only. People may take advantage of it or not. It doesn't matter.

So chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (end)