721210 - Lecture BG 18.67 - Ahmedabad

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



721210BG-AHMEDABAD - December 10, 1972 - 51:29 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

idaṁ te nātapaskāya
nābhaktāya kadācana
na cāśuśruṣave vācyaṁ
na ca māṁ yo 'bhyasūyati
(BG 18.67)

So we were discussing this verse yesterday. So there are persons abhyasūyati, envious of Kṛṣṇa. Envious. Who is envious of Kṛṣṇa? Demons. Just like Kaṁsa: always making plan how to kill Kṛṣṇa. As soon as he heard that his eighth son of his sister Devakī would kill him, as soon as he heard this prophecy, he become a determined enemy of Kṛṣṇa. He was always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but he was thinking in a different way. Prātikūlyena.

Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpaḥ prātikūlyaṁ vivarjanam. This devotional service means to accept favorable and reject unfavorable. This is called śaraṇāgati. Surrender means to accept favorable things, how I can make progress towards Kṛṣṇa, and prātikūlya, pratikūla means rejecting unfavorable things which are not very congenial for my progress to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rakṣayiṣyaty iti viśvāsa-pālanam: and to have firm faith that "Kṛṣṇa will give me protection. Kṛṣṇa will give me protection."

Kṛṣṇa says,

sarva-dharmān parityajya
mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja
ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ
(BG 18.66)

So to have firm faith in the statement of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll give you protection from the resultant action of all sinful activities." We must know that anyone who are..., anyone who is in this material world—more or less sinful. Without being sinful, nobody exists in this material world. Just like yesterday we visited the Savarmati jail. So all the prisoners who are there, it is to be understood they are all sinful, or criminals. Otherwise, how they are put into the jail?

So this material world is jail. You cannot have freedom here. It is not possible. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). And the superintendent of jail is Durgā-devī. You have seen the many..., there are many worshiper of Goddess Durgā. She is the superintendent of this jail. Durgā. Durgā means fort.

So this material world is just like a fort, and the predominating deity is the Durgā-devī. Therefore she is equipped with so many weapons, ten kinds of weapons on ten hands. That means there are ten direction: the four corners..., east, west, south, north, and the four corners, up and down. These are the ten direction. So you cannot escape. Just like from the jail you cannot escape—there is very strong guard—similarly, we are all put into this fort, durgā, material universe. So... And the deity, predominating deity, is Durgā-devī.

There are some people, they think, "By satisfying Durgā we shall be happy." That is also mentioned in the śāstras. But that happiness is only within this material world. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi rūpavatī-bhāryāṁ dehi yaśo dehi, dehi, dehi. After worshiping Goddess Durgā, we ask all these benediction: "Give me money, give me beautiful wife, give me reputation, give me strength, give me victory." Durgā-devī gives you. But that is not actual happiness.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16): "My dear Arjuna, even if you are promoted to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka, that is not happiness." In the Brahmaloka, the duration of life is so long that you cannot calculate even one day. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Sahasra-yuga. One yuga means forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahaḥ. Now calculate. That duration is one day of Brahmā. One day means twelve hours. Similarly, another twelve hours, night. Day and night. Then again, thirty days, one month. Similarly, twelve months equal to one year. Such one thous..., one hundred years is the duration of Brahmā.

So anyone who goes to the Brahmaloka... They are trying to go to the moon planet. I don't think they have been successful. But this is not a very difficult task. But even if you go to the Brahmaloka, where the duration of life is so long and the comforts of life are many, many thousand times what..., which we can perceive here, Kṛṣṇa says that "Even you go there, then the birth, death, old age and disease is there. You cannot avoid it." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).

Brahmā, when he was approached by Hiraṇyakaśipu to have the benediction to become immortal, Brahmā said, "Oh, I am not immortal. How can I give you the benediction?" So any planet within this material world you may go, you may try to become happy, but there is no such thing as immortality. That is not possible within this material world. Mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. Kṛṣṇa says, "But if you come to My planet..." There is Kṛṣṇa's planet. As there is Brahmā's planet, similarly there is Kṛṣṇa's planet. That planet is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).

So anyone can go. That is not very difficult. But we do have no information. Although the informations are all there in the Bhagavad-gītā or all Vedic literature, we do not take care of it. We are surprised only by the movement of the sputnik going to the so-called moon planet, coming back, taking some dust. So we are very much surprised with this movement, but we..., we do not care to know that "I am a spirit soul. My movement is so unique and beautiful that I can go back to home, back go Godhead." That we do not know. This is called ignorance, mūḍha. Mūḍha, foolish person, rascals. They do not know. Very meager idea.

How we can be promoted? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā: yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25): those who want to go to the planetary system of the demigods... The moon planet is one of them. They can go. You have to prepare yourself in this life. We have discussed all these things in our small booklet Easy Journey to Other Planet, those who are interested who can read. So we can go any planet, any type of forms of living entities. There are 8,400,000 forms of body, material body.

So ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). You desire anything, you'll be given chance by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He gives you chance according to your desires. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. Mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ (BG 4.11). But why we should want something which is perishable? That is intelligence. Kṛṣṇa says, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ: even if you go the Brahmaloka planet, that is also perishable. You'll have to return again.

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

If you desire to go to the planetary system of the demigods, you can go. If you want to remain here, in this Bhūrloka, Bhuvarloka, you can remain. If you want to go to the Pitṛlokas... Just like according to our Vedic system, there is pitṛ-tarpaṇa. You know, all. By offering pitṛ-tarpaṇa, you can be promoted to the Pitṛlokas. This is the idea. Similarly, if you want to go to the supreme planet, yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6), the abode of the Supreme Lord, Goloka Vṛndāvana or Vaikuṇṭhaloka, you can go.

So if we want actually promotion of life, I mean to say, established life, eternal life and eternal body, sac-cid-ānanda, and eternal blissful life of knowledge, then you must worship Kṛṣṇa. That is the verdict.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the mission of Bhagavad-gītā. The best chance. And Kṛṣṇa comes here to give you the idea what is the function of the Kṛṣṇa-loka. That He displays in Vṛndāvana here. Rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī. That is His business, simple life, village life.

They're all young boys and girls, the gopīs and the cowherds boy. They're enjoying, dancing. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ surabhīr abhipālayantam (Bs. 5.29). And Kṛṣṇa, just like we have got some hobbies, we keep some cats and dogs, Kṛṣṇa has got also hobby. What is that? Surabhīr abhipālayantam: He's always engaged in taking care of the surabhī cows, gopāla. That is His business. So He's so simple life.

So the difficulty is the people cannot understand these things. They are of opinion that after this life, everything's finished. The greatest scientists, philosopher, they are thinking like that. That means practically they have no sense. Why there is no life after death? I am experiencing that I was a baby, and after that baby body is finished, I got a body of child. Then, from child body, I got the body of a boy; then as a young man, then I have got this... Now, why not after changing this body, another body? Where is the reason?

In my this experience I get that I have changed so many bodies. But I remember; I am existing. Although my different bodies are finished, I am existing. Similarly, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Similarly, I shall get another body. So what kind of body I shall get, that is the preparation stage in this life, what kind of body I'm going to get.

That is karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). As you are working here, this is a chance, human body. Here is a chance. You can make your next body as lower animals or demigods or go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever you like. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). These are the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.

So one has to understand all these things by little tapasya. Because to go back to home, back to Godhead is not very easy thing, because we are so much entangled with this gross material body and subtle material body. And the subtle material body is creating... Just like a spool, creating another body, another body, desires. Material desires. So we have to change these material desires into spiritual desires. Then we get spiritual body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1).

There... This is the function of the laws of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Prakṛti. So long we are in this material world, we are associating with different modes of material nature, and prakṛti is giving me different types of bodies. In this way we are rolling, we are wandering. Now, this, this human form of life is meant for understanding that there is spiritual life, there is eternal life, there is blissful life, and prepare for that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Do not waste your time.

Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura sings,

hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu
manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā,
jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu

After getting this opportunity, this human form of life, if we do not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is means willingly we are taking poison. Willingly. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious in this life, you can be transferred to the spiritual world. Immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Everything is explained there. As soon as you die, immediately you are transferred to the spiritual world. How? Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa in truth, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ... This is tāttvika knowledge.

Tāttvika knowledge means to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "There is no more superior truth beyond Me. I am the Supreme Truth." Paraṁ brahma param... Arjuna understood it. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding. This is paramparā understanding.

If you want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to follow the footprints of the mahājana, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), as Arjuna understood it. How Arjuna understood it? Paraṁ brahma, "the Supreme Brahman."

We are all Brahman. There is no difficulty to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That's all right. But we are not Param Brahman. We are Brahman because part and parcel of Brahman, qualitatively one with Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Just like if you say, "I am Indian," so there is no harm. But you cannot say that you are as big, as powerful as Indira Gandhi. She is also Indian. Similarly, you may become Brahman, but you cannot become Param Brahman. That is Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Similarly, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body; I am not this material form. I have got my spiritual identity," that is called ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And when one understands this fact, that he is not this material body, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Without understanding this: jīva-bhūta.

Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). As soon as one understands that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, then he becomes prasannātmā. Because prasannātmā means we are all working on the bodily concept of life: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," "I am this," "I am that." So when one understands that "I am not this body," then he comes to the point: "Why I am working so hard for this body?" Misunderstanding. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. Immediately your so many responsibilities go away.

Brahmā-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you understand that "Why I am envious of this man or that man, this animal or that animal? They are all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. They are all brahmas." So samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). He sees brahma-darśī. In this way, when samatvam, samatvam, he comes to the point of samatvam, equality, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām, that is the beginning of devotional life. That is the beginning of...

It is not a sentiment. It is a great science to become a devotee, to come to the platform of devotional life. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). When one comes to that stage of devotional life, then bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). At that time, one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Tattvataḥ. The same thing. In three places, Kṛṣṇa has been described tattvataḥ. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). How to understand tattvataḥ? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ.

So if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you have to take the life of devotion. And one who does not take to this life of devotion, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā. It is far, far away. It is... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "It is just like licking the honey bottle." One may come to the bottle filled with honey, but simply by licking the bottle, what taste he will get?

The honey must be opened. Then if you taste, you will know what is honey. Similarly, simply by taking Bhagavad-gītā and trying to understand it by so-called scholarship is licking up the honey bottle. That's all. There will be no taste. There will be no taste. You go on for many millions of years licking up that bottle, you'll never understand.

If you want to understand, then Kṛṣṇa says here:

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

The same tattva. You have to approach a person who has seen tattva, tattva-darśinaḥ. So that tattva-darśī already explained. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). One can become tattva-darśī simply by devotional service.

So for coming to the platform of devotional service one has to make some sacrifice. That is called tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some difficult things. That is called tapasya. Therefore those who have not taken to that, those who have taken Bhagavad-gītā as a table talk, they cannot understand. Not Bhagavad-gītā should be preached amongst them.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa is warning, idaṁ te na atapaskāya nābhaktāya. Idaṁ te nātapaskāya nābhaktāya kadācana: "Never describe. Never described this Bhagavad-gītā." Kṛṣṇa said in the previous verse... People will not be able to understand. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This simple fact cannot be understood by any man who has not undergone some austerities, penances, and who has not become a devotee. It is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is warning, "Don't speak to these nonsense. They will not understand."

But a devotee of Kṛṣṇa tries to make them devotee. Because Kṛṣṇa, in the next verse, says, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (BG 18.68). Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. Here in this verse it is said, nābhaktāya: "Don't speak this truth of Bhagavad-gītā to the abhaktas," but if you can speak to the bhaktas... Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam.

Paramaṁ guhyam. It is the most confidential knowledge, most confidential part of Vedic knowledge. It is said in the beginning, sarva-guhyatamam. Sarva-guhyatamam: "most confidential." So paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu. Because from the beginning it is simply said, "Only the bhaktas can understand." Therefore it should be preached among the bhaktas. Mad-bhakteṣu abhidhāsyati, bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā mām eva eṣyasi, eṣyati asaṁśayaḥ.

So this is another opportunity. Just create, everyone, everyone, especially... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41): "Anyone who has taken birth in this holy land of Bhāratavarṣa...," janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. This is the injunction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "First of all, make your life perfect. Just try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa and what is Bhagavad-gītā, and make your life practical in understanding Bhagavān and the bhakti." Janma sārthaka kari': "Then go and preach all over the world." Paropakāra.

Because the whole world is in darkness. They are too much materially congested. Their brain... Big, big professors, they say, "After death, there is no life." And they are going as teachers and professors. So especially in the Western world, they are so much engrossed. So our request is, those who are actually intelligent, "Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seriously, especially Indian, and try to preach all over the world." They are also hankering after it. And Kṛṣṇa says that simply by trying to preach the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then he become a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Bhaktiṁ mayi parām. Parā-bhakti.

That parā-bhakti, already explained:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

Parā-bhakti. Na aparā. Aparā means material, and parā means transcendental. Parā-bhakti. Without coming to the stage of parā-bhakti, one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. So that parā-bhakti means one must be freed from all sinful activities. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Not ordinary man. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānām, janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Those who are always engaged in pious activities, they cannot be engaged in sinful activities.

By pious activities, constantly being engaged in pious activities... Then what is that pious activities? Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply if you hear and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, you become pious. Even you..., you do not understand, if you simply engage. So the method is very simple. You can become pious and you can become free from all sinful activities.

So,

yeṣāṁ (tv) anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
(BG 7.28)

Then he can surrender unto Kṛṣṇa: vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). These are the process, simple process. You..., we have to simply take it seriously.

So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is prohibiting the four pillars of sinful life. What is that? Illicit sex life. Illicit sex life. And meat-eating. Meat-eating. Meats, fish, egg, everything. Āmiṣa. Āmiṣa-bhoja. Meat-eating. And intoxication. All kinds of intoxication. Not only liquor or LSD, but also tea, coffee, cigarette, everything.

Illicit sex life, meat-eating and intoxicant and gambling. These are the four pillars of sinful life. So we are advocating, "Please give up these four principles of sinful life and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, at least sixteen rounds." You'll become situated in the transcendental position, and you can understand what is Kṛṣṇa and what is Bhagavad-gītā.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Indian man (1): ...can be removed. Nistraiguṇya, traiguṇya-viṣayā vedā nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna (BG 2.45). If there is a contradiction between the principles taught by Vedas and taught by Gītā, sir?

Prabhupāda: Nistraiguṇya... As soon as you become a devotee, you become nistraiguṇya. As soon as you become a devotee, pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you are situated on the platform of nistraiguṇya.

Indian man (1): Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedāḥ...

Prabhupāda: Traiguṇya means these three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So the whole Vedic literature is describing how to get out of this entanglement of three guṇas. So as soon as you come out of these three guṇas, then you become nistraiguṇya.

Indian man (1): Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna.

Prabhupāda: Ahh. So how you can become nistraiguṇya? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

This is nistraiguṇya. If you engage yourself in unadulterated, avyabhicāreṇa, devotion, then you become immediately situated on the platform of nistraiguṇya. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.

So pure devotional service means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam. Anyābhilāṣa. We have got so many desires, all material desires. So one should be free from all material desires. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna, nirbheda-brahmānu-sandhanaḥ. This is generally understood as jñāna.

And karma means to be elevated to the higher planetary system, heavenly planets. So anāvṛtam: we should not be touched with jñāna and karma. Neither we have any material desires. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam. Simply cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness ānukūlyena, favorably. Bhaktir uttamā. That is the highest platform of devotional service.

sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-
sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate
(CC Madhya 19.170)

When we become free from all designations... We have so many designations: "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am this," "I am that." These are our upādhi. I am pure soul. And as pure soul, I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. My only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170).

Hṛṣīka, the senses, when the senses are engaged in the service of the proprietor of the sense, Hṛṣīkeśa, that is called bhakti. So nistraiguṇya means to be situated on the platform where these three guṇas cannot affect. That is nistraiguṇya.

Indian man (2): That mama sa janmakāra(?), that means we cannot be exactly Kṛṣṇa. We can be like Kṛṣṇa, but not exactly like Kṛṣṇa by bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You cannot become Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (2): Mama sa janmakāra.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Mānuṣya? That is mental speculation. Kṛṣṇa is asamordhva. Nobody can become Kṛṣṇa nor even equal to Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya. Only master is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is servant. This is our real position. Everyone.

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya
yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya
(CC Adi 5.142)

According to the direction of Kṛṣṇa, we are dancing in different activities. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart. I wanted to do something, desire; Kṛṣṇa reminds me: "Now here is the opportunity. I give you opportunity. Now you can do it."

Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. So if you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give you such intelligence that you'll forget Him. And if you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give you such intelligence as you'll be able to serve Kṛṣṇa.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ
yena mām upayānti te
(BG 10.10)

So it is up to you whether you want to forget Kṛṣṇa or if you want to serve Kṛṣṇa. If you want to serve Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence how you can elevate yourself by serving. And if you want to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give you such intelligence that you'll forget forever. That is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (3): So many times Lord Kṛṣṇa told us: mama vartmānuvartante yantrārūḍhāni māyayā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). I want to know why He's so unkind and He allows us to sin. That people, who wants to go, they are very persevering.

And He again said, yatato hy api kaunteya puruṣasya vipaścitaḥ, indriyāṇi pramāthīni (BG 2.60). He should have helped the nature, how to leave the whole universe, so that if mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ, if that was the way, the royal road, the royal road of Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa, should be very easier.

Prabhupāda: So mama vartmānuvartante means that just like on the top of..., just like there are so many skyscraper buildings in America. A hundred and five stories, I think that is the latest. So suppose you have to go to the topmost flat. There is staircase. So everyone is trying to go there. But someone has passed, say, ten steps.

Another had passed, say, fifty steps. Another has hundred steps. But you have to complete, say, two thousand steps. So the staircase is the same. Mama vartmānuvartante. Because the aim is to go to the topmost flat. But the one who has passed ten steps, he is lower than one who has passed fifty steps. And the one who has passed fifty steps, he's lower than who has passed hundred steps.

So similarly, there are different processes. But all the processes are not the same. They're aiming at the same goal, karma, jñāna, yoga, bhakti, but bhakti is the highest step. Because when you come to the platform of bhakti, then you can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Not by karma, jñāna, yoga.

That is not possible. You are trying, you are going towards that aim, but Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. He does not say, "By jñāna, by karma, by yoga." No. That you cannot understand. You can go forward, steps. But if you want to know Kṛṣṇa, then bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). This is the process.

Therefore mama vartmānuvartante means, "Everyone is trying to come to Me, according to their capacity, ability. But one who actually wants to understand Me, the simple process..." Just like the staircase is there, but—not in this country; in Europe and American countries—side by side there is lift, elevator. So instead of going step by step to the highest flat, you take the help of this lift, you go immediately, within a second.

So if you take the lift of bhakti, then immediately you come in contact with Kṛṣṇa directly, instead of going by step by step by step. Why should you take? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You simply surrender unto Me. Your business is finished." Why should you labor so much, step by step by step by step by...? (break)

Indian man (4): ... is, what about the statement: jñānī tv ātmaivam eva tvam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That jñānī does not mean nirbheda-brahmānusandhanaḥ(?). Jñānī... Without jñāna, how one can become bhakta? Because the result of jñāna is to become brahma-bhūtaḥ. So those who are taking bhakti as sentiment, they may fall down. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Prākṛta-bhakta means sentiment. But jñānī-bhakta, one who becomes a devotee, knowing Kṛṣṇa, what He is, he's very important.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, someone has written the question that "Who will carry on this movement after you?"

Prabhupāda: Who is asking me, he'll do it. (laughter) (break)

Indian man (5): Mahārāja, can I ask my godly(?) Gurudeva that what is your plan to carry again, to push your movement after you, that it would be after Śrī Bhaktivedanta Prabhu, to keep this ladder of..., keep this ladder held up: (indistinct) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
(BG 4.1)

First of all, Kṛṣṇa spoke this Kṛṣṇa consciousness science to the sun-god, and the sun-god Vivasvān explained it to his son, Manu. And Manu explained to his son Ikṣvāku. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So this science is understood by the paramparā disciplic succession. So as we have understood by the paramparā system from my Guru Mahārāja, so any of my student who will understand, he will keep it running on. This is the process.

It is not a new thing. It is the old thing. Simply we have to distribute it properly, as we have heard from our predecessor ācārya. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, ācārya upāsanam: "One must approach ācārya." Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Simply by speculating, by so-called scholarship, it is not possible. It is not possible. One must approach the ācārya.

So the ācārya is coming by paramparā system, disciplic succession. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34): "One should approach the ācārya and try to understand by praṇipāta, surrender." This whole thing is depending on surrender. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. The surrender process, the proportion of surrender, is the means of understanding Kṛṣṇa. If we are fully surrendered, then we can understand fully Kṛṣṇa. If we are partially surrendered, then we understand Kṛṣṇa partially.

So ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. It is the proportion of surrender. The one who has surrendered fully, he can understand this philosophy and he can preach also, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. What is that? (break)

Indian man (5): I want to ask you one more question. (break)

Prabhupāda: Anyone can become perfect in his own position simply if he receives this transcendental message by proper aural reception. Śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ (SB 10.14.3)... (break) ...five thousand years, Kṛṣṇa says forty millions of years, He spoke...

Indian man (6): Forty millions of years, but as it is, Gītā was made to Arjuna five thousand years back. And so before five thousand years back, who was that surrendering? (indistinct) says that there may be five million years. That is what they say. Even today, you say or I say, then the world, ten million years back. That doesn't solve the problem. The problem is that Gītā was written or dictated or recited for the human about five thousand years back. So what was there before five thousand years back? Was there Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Was, yes.

Indian man (6): Or was there, it was, it was given to... Hear me. Veda is the oldest scripture in the world. So all other are based on, after Veda, out of Veda. So if before one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, what becomes of him?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the Vedas there are Kṛṣṇa consciousness mentioned. It is not that five thousand years ago only Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No. In the Vedas there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the Vedas.

Indian man (7): Guru Mahārāja, one more question. Do you agree that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is an improvement over the whole...

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the only solution of all problems. This is the only solution. (break) (end)