721209 - Lecture BG 18.67-69 - Ahmedabad

Lectures by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721209BG-AHMEDABAD - December 09, 1972 - 45:52 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . about Kṛṣṇa's forbidding Arjuna not to speak this Bhagavad-gītā to a person who is not very much advanced in austerity and penance. The verse is on the Eighteenth Chapter, verse number 67, in which Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna:

idaṁ te nātapaskāya

nābhaktāya kadācana

na cāśuśrūṣave vācyaṁ

na ca māṁ yo 'bhyasūyati

(BG 18.67)

Kṛṣṇa says: "This confidential knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere or devoted or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me."

So Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He knows very well that there will be so many rascals who are envious of Him. Actually, everyone is trying . . . because Bhagavad-gītā is very popular book of profound knowledge, everyone is trying to prove his own theory through the medium of Bhagavad-gītā, excluding Kṛṣṇa. This is going on. They want to kill Kṛṣṇa, demonic. Anyone who is trying to kill Kṛṣṇa, he's a demon. So to warn the devotees from these demons, this śloka was spoken by Kṛṣṇa Himself.

Atapaskāya. Actually, one who is sinful, who is not undergoing the method of austerities, penance, what he will understand about Bhagavad-gītā? It is not a table talk. People are taking it as a table talk. By so-called scholarship . . . that is not possible. Just like it is said that unless one is a brāhmin, qualified brāhmin, he should not touch the Vedas. That means what he will understand?

Unless one has attained the brahminical qualification: truthfulness, cleanliness, controlling the senses, controlling the mind, simplicity, tolerant, full of Vedic knowledge, practically application in life, and full faith in the Vedas . . . this is, these are the brahminical qualifications. So unless one has attained the brahminical qualification, what he will understand, the Vedas?

It is not that Mr. Max Mueller translates Veda. This is all nonsense. What Max Mueller will understand Bhagavad, uh, Vedas? It is, these are not the subject matter of advanced in A-B-C-D. No. These are transcendental subject matter. Tat. Oṁ tat sat. Unless one is advanced . . . everything . . . just like in our ordinary life also, unless one has graduated, he cannot enter into the law college.

So it is not prohibition. The law college is open for everyone. But he must be properly qualified to get entrance. Similarly, one must be properly qualified to enter into the transcendental subject matter. Everyone and anyone cannot. Śūdras, those who are in śūdra qualification, how they can understand Vedas? It is not possible.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa knows that mostly they are persons contaminated. Therefore He said, idaṁ te na atapaskāya. Those who are too much contaminated with the material qualities, three qualities: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa . . . so generally, people are contaminated with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa. Hardly, at the present moment, hardly we shall find out one is qualified with the sattva-guṇa, brahminical qualification.

Śāstra says, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age, Kali-yuga, mostly all of them are śūdras." No brāhmin, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya, according to qualification. You can, by force, you can say, "I am brahmin—because I am son of a brahmin, I am brahmin." That you can do, but that is not the qualification. If somebody says, "My father is high-court judge; therefore I am a high-court judge," is that very nice proposal? One must attain the qualification of high-court judge, even though he's a son of a high-court judge.

So these things are mentioned in the śāstras, but we are defying. Nārada Muni says . . . not ordinary authority.

yasya yal lakṣaṇaṁ proktaṁ

puṁso varṇābhivyañjakam

yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta

tat tenaiva vinirdiśet

(SB 7.11.35)

The purport is that there are symptoms, characteristics, of brāhmin, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā: satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā, satyaṁ śaucam, śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). Similarly, for kṣatriya, there are seven qualification. Similarly, for the vaiśyas, three qualification: kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). And for the śūdras, only one: paricaryātmakaṁ kāryaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam.

So the . . . this is śāstras. This is the injunction of the Vedic literature. And Nārada Muni says, yasya hi yal lakṣaṇaṁ syād (SB 7.11.35). The symptoms, the characteristic, varṇābhivyañjakam, to indicate, or to decide, in which varṇa, whether this person belongs to brāhmin-varṇa or kṣatriya-varṇa or śūdra-varṇa, like that. So there are symptoms.

So Nārada Muni says if these symptoms are found elsewhere . . . yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta. Suppose a śūdra, or a vaiśya, but he has got the qualification, symptoms, of a brāhmin, so he should be accepted as brāhmin, not as śūdra, as vaiśya. Similarly, a person born in brāhmin family, if he has got the symptoms of a śūdra, he should be accepted as śūdra. This is the injunction in the śāstras. And Śrīdhara Svāmī, he says that simply taking birth in some particular family, brāhmin family or kṣatriya family, one does not become so. It is the qualification. That is required.

So Bhagavad-gītā also . . . it is Vedic literature, spoken by the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Veda apauruṣeya. Veda means the knowledge given by God, Kṛṣṇa. First the knowledge was given to Brahmā. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). Brahmā received the knowledge from the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vedic knowledge. Therefore it is called apauruṣeya. It is not writ . . . Veda does not mean it is written by some ordinary man, as we write some books. No. It is not like that. Apauruṣeya. Coming directly.

So similarly, the Bhagavad-gītā is also coming directly from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is Vedas. Vedānta-vid Vedānta-kṛd ca aham. Kṛṣṇa says, in the Fifteenth Chapter, that:

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi-sanniviṣṭo

mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca

vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo

Vedānta-kṛd Vedānta-vid eva cāham

(BG 15.15)

He is actually the Vedānta, compiler of Vedānta, Vedānta-sūtra, the most important philosophical thesis—not thesis, but actually. So Kṛṣṇa knows what is Vedānta. And what He says, that is Vedānta. Veda, Veda means knowledge. Anta, anta means the last word. So what is the last word of Vedānta? Last word is to know the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Not only Vedānta-sūtra, but also all the Vedas. Sāma, Yajur, Atharva, Ṛk, the ultimate objective is Kṛṣṇa, to know Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15), Kṛṣṇa says.

So Bhagavad-gītā is also Vedānta because the Supreme Person, who spoke Vedānta, as . . . as Vyāsadeva, incarnation of Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa, the same, identical. So therefore incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, Vyāsadeva, wrote Vedānta-sūtra. Therefore Kṛṣṇa knows what is Vedānta. And if we accept Kṛṣṇa as He's saying, that . . . then we become actually vedāntī. Not artificially.

So here Kṛṣṇa says that idaṁ te na atapaskāya na abhaktāya. Abhakta, rascal, will not understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. Nābhaktāya. In the beginning also, Kṛṣṇa, before speaking Bhagavad-gītā, He selected Arjuna because . . . He said, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam etad uttamam (BG 4.3): "The mystery of Bhagavad-gītā, it is very transcendental subject matter. Therefore I shall speak to you." "Why? Why You are selecting me? I am not a Vedāntist. I am not a sannyāsī. I am ordinary gṛhastha. That also, I am a soldier, fighting man. Why You are selecting me?" Bhakto 'si: "Because you are My devotee."

Nobody can understand Bhagavad-gītā unless he's a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a rascaldom, that you speculate some interpretation, speculation. No, these things are not allowed. Strictly. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, without any malinterpretation. This is the significance. And people are appreciating. Macmillan Company, our publisher, they printed fifty thousand copies of this book in August, and it was finished by October. Not in this country, of course; in Europe and America. We have got very good demand for our books, all these books. We are selling twenty-five to thirty thousand rupees' worth books daily all over the world.

So Kṛṣṇa warned . . . here the gentleman, he's not present here, who wrote me this letter? So it is the warning. Because ordinary man, they will simply spoil. They do not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. The simple thing, Bhagavad-gītā, is that God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything, and we are also part and parcel of God, and our business is to serve God. That's all. Where is the difficulty to understand? Just like this finger is the part and parcel of my body. The business of finger is to carry out my order. I ask the finger: "Please come here," "Yes, I am ready." "Come here," "Yes, I'm ready."

Similarly, we should be like that, always ready to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like Arjuna did. Arjuna, in the beginning, he denied to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted fight. He said: "No. Kṛṣṇa, I cannot fight. I cannot kill my kinsmen, the other side, my brothers, my nephews, my grandfather. No. I stop." Then Kṛṣṇa explained the actual position and He asked him: "Now, what is your decision? You can do whatever you like. I have explained everything." He said: "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73)."

This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One must be ready to do anything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that, "According to my whims, I shall decide." No. This is position. We must be ready because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like my hand is moving because I want to move it, similarly, we are all, all living entities, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa—therefore our duty is simply to move according to the will of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Therefore this philosophy cannot be understood by ordinary person. Therefore He said, na atapaskāya. Tapasya. This life is meant for tapasya, not to lead a life like hogs and dogs. This human . . . that is not human life. That is hogs' and dogs' life. That is a state . . . the statement of Ṛṣabhadeva:

nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke

kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye

tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvaṁ

yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ anantam

(SB 5.5.1)

We are all hankering after happiness. But we do not know how to get happiness. That is advised by Ṛṣabhadeva, father of Mahārāja Bharata, under whose name this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa. This planet, not this country. Bhārata-varṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa. So after the reign of Mahārāja Bharata, Emperor Bharata, this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa. But because we have lost our culture now, we are now a small piece of land. Just like Pakistan went. We could not maintain our culture. Formerly, the kings were maintaining the culture and controlling the whole world.

So it is warning that those who have not undergone austerities, as Ṛṣabhadeva says, that this human form of body . . . everyone has got a material body. The cats and dogs and hogs and trees and everyone has got. But ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke, especially in the human society, it is not meant for gratifying the senses, working very hard whole day and night, like the hogs. The very example is given: hogs. Viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means hogs, the stool-eater.

The stool-eater, you'll find the stool-eater, the whole day and night searching after stool, "Where is stool? Where is stool?" At night also, you'll find engaged. Day also, engaged. These are the examples by nature. What for? What is the business? Now, eating stool. And then, as soon as he gets some strength, then sex. Never mind, mother, sister or anything. This is hog civilization. "Eat whatever you like, no discrimination, even up to stool, and then have sexual intercourse. That's all."

So this is the warning of Ṛṣabhadeva, that this human life is not meant for this purpose, like hogs and dogs. Then what it is? Tapo. That is state . . . stated here also: nātapaskāya. One who has not undergone austerities and penances according to the Vedic system, what he can understand Bhagavad-gītā and the Vedas?

Therefore He has warned. And what is the result of tapasya? To become bhakta, devotee. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). One who has actually undergone austerities, penances, then the result will be that he will surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is bhakta.

So after tapasya, one becomes bhakta. And as soon as one becomes bhakta, he enjoys life. He enjoys life. Natural stage. That is mukti. Hitvā anyathā-rūpam. Muktir hitvā anyathā-rūpam. Anyathā-rūpam means defying the authority of God. That is anyathā-rūpam.

Because we are a part and parcel of God, therefore our business is to abide by the orders of God. But as soon as we defy God, that is anyathā-rūpam. So mukti means hitvā anyathā-rūpam. That is mukti. Mukti means hitvā anyathā-rūpam, giving up this nonsense practice, defying God. Anyathā-rūpam. Sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ, to be situated in his own constitutional position.

What is the constitutional position? The constitutional position is to serve. Just like part and parcel of my body, this finger, is to serve the body. This is constitutional position. If the finger denies, "No, I am God. Why shall I serve you?" that is anyathā-rūpam. So mukti means to give up anyathā-rūpam. And that is the demand of Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You have manufactured so many rascaldom in the name of religion. Give up all this nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." This is wanted.

But Kṛṣṇa knows that, "If I say to the rascals, 'Surrender unto Me,' he'll take otherwise." A big scholar says: "Oh, this is too much. Sophistry." Kṛṣṇa is demanding, "Simply surrender unto Me," and the commenter, commentator, is remarking, "Oh, this is too much."

And actually we are feeling, "Why we shall surrender to Kṛṣṇa? We have got many other . . . we have got another Kṛṣṇa, another this, another this . . . why alone to Kṛṣṇa?" Because he cannot understand. Because he has not undergone penance and austerities and not has become a devotee, how he can understand Kṛṣṇa?

Therefore He's warning, "Don't talk this thing, this surrender unto Me, or surrender to Kṛṣṇa, to the rascals and nonsense. They'll not accept it." Therefore He has warned. But if you say: "Why you are preaching?" we are taking the risk. We know that ordinary person, they'll not understand, but it has become our duty, because we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. The servant of Kṛṣṇa, we are going from country to country, from door to door, and flattering them, falling them, falling down on their lotus feet. Just like Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī said, dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya.

He was a great devotee of Lord Caitanya. Caitanya and Kṛṣṇa, the same. So he says: "I have taken a grass on my mouth." That is a Indian system, you know. To accept a grass, that means to become very humble. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya: "And falling down on your feet," kāku-śataṁ kṛtvā cāhaṁ bravīmi, "I am flattering you hundred times. I am just appealing to you one thing." "What is that?"

He sādhavaḥ: "You are a very great man. You are a very pious man. But I request you: 'You give up everything. Whatever, you nonsense, you have learned, please give up.' " "Then what I have to do?" Caitanya-candra-caraṇe kuruta anurāgam: "Just become a devotee of Lord Caitanya."

And becoming Lord Caitanya . . . devotee of Lord Caitanya, what, what is the business? Lord Caitanya says:

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa

yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa

(CC Madhya 7.128)

Just that, "On My order, you become a guru." And what is the business of guru? The guru's business is, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: "You simply spread what Kṛṣṇa has said or what is said about Kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa." Upadeśa means instruction. The instruction which is given by Kṛṣṇa or the instruction given about Kṛṣṇa, that is called kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, kṛṣṇa-kathā. So Bhagavad-gītā is kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, directly Kṛṣṇa giving the instruction. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the instruction about Kṛṣṇa.

So this is our business. We have become guru, spiritual master, not with a false position that, "I have become God." No. We are servant, simply servant, ordinary servant. Just like post peon. Not very high salaried servant. Ordinary, third-class servant. What is our business? To deliver the letter. That's all. "Here is your letter, sir." So to become spiritual master is not very difficult. Any ordinary man can become, provided he becomes a pure servant, delivering the letter: "Here is Kṛṣṇa's message, sir. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa says: "Surrender unto Me." We, spiritual master, we say, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Where is my difficulty?

I haven't got to manufacture things by high meditation and tapasya. This is tapasya, simply to become a faithful servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So where is the difficulty? This is tapasya, that "I shall not speak anything beyond what Kṛṣṇa has spoken." This is tapasya. But if I want to adulterate, "Oh, I am bigger than Kṛṣṇa. I am greater than Kṛṣṇa. I am Kṛṣṇa," then you spoil the whole thing. That's all. Therefore it is warned, idaṁ te na atapaskāya nābhaktāya kadācana: "Never speak to rascals." Na ca aśuśrūṣave. One who's not . . . here is another opportunity, one is eager to hear.

So we are speaking to persons who are at least eager to hear. Śuśrūṣave. Vācyaṁ na ca māṁ yaḥ abhyasūyati. Abhyasūyati: one who is envious. So this is right warning. But still, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to create the situation so that people may kindly hear about Kṛṣṇa. That is our business.

Although it is warned that if we discriminate in that way that, "Here is a person, he has not undergone any austerities. He's not a devotee. He's not, I mean, prepared to hear," then where we shall find our customer? The whole world is like that. Thugbaj se gaon ojo. (The village is filled with cheaters.) If, if, if a gentleman tried to find out who is the thief in this village, and after scrutinizing, he saw everyone is thief, so what to discriminate?

So world is so situated now—no tapasya. Just like we are simply asking people, requesting people, "Kindly give up these four principles." What is that? Illicit sex and meat-eating and intoxication and gambling. Oh, it is very difficult. People find it very difficult. Even a person like Lord Zetland. He was proposed that . . . he, he inquired . . .

One of my Godbrother went to London, and he was talking with Lord Zetland, Marquis of Zetland. So Marquis of Zetland inquired, "Well, Swāmījī, can you make me a brāhmin?" "Yes, we can make you brāhmin." "How?" "Now, you just give up illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling." "Ohhh, it is impossible. This is our life. This is our life, to have boyfriend and girlfriend and drinking and meat-eating and gambling. If we give up all this, then where is our life?"

Therefore we require tapasya. This is tapasya. Here is only four simple things. And if you ask anybody, "Give up drinking tea," oh, you will find a thunderbolt. Thunderbolt. "Oh, what you are speaking? I shall give up tea-drinking?" "At least, you are a sannyāsī." "No, I have to drink tea in the morning, at least, so big cup. (laughter) And then smoking gāñjā. And I become God." This is going on. This is going on.

Therefore it is warned, "Don't talk this, the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, to the rascals who has no austerities, who has no devotion, who is not prepared to hear." But the servant of Kṛṣṇa, they take all risk for Kṛṣṇa's sake. Just like Rāmānujācārya. Śrī Rāmānujācārya, his spiritual master said, "My dear son, the mantra which I am giving, you shall silently chant and you'll be delivered.

It is so powerful. Don't chant this mantra loudly so that other can hear." So Rāmānujācārya thought, "If the, this mantra is so powerful that if others hear they'll also be delivered, so why not?" He immediately went to the market and began to chant the mantra. So his spiritual master became very angry, that "I told you not to chant loudly so that others may not hear." So he said, "My Lordship, I have done offense unto you. That's all right. For this, I can . . . I am prepared to go to hell. But if this mantra is so powerful, I must speak to everyone."

So that is our proposal. Although we are warned not to speak to the rascals, but still, we are flattering, "My dear sir, please hear, please hear, please hear. Please give up this habit. Please do it." So to turn one man to Kṛṣṇa consciousness we have to shed hundred tons of blood. So therefore it is warned. We are not easy-going that not to preach. We have taken the risk to preach. And it has, it is becoming successful. People will take it.

So although Kṛṣṇa warns, "Don't speak to these classes of men," we take the risk. Because our philosophy is that—not my philosophy; that is Vaiṣṇava philosophy—that others may go, they may be delivered. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that, "My dear Lord, for my personal self, I do not bother. I have no problem. I am simply thinking of these fools."

Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43): "Simply for māyā-sukha, temporary happiness, they are working so hard, like dogs and hogs. I am simply concerned for them. For me, I have no concern. I can chant Your holy name anywhere." So this warning of Kṛṣṇa is all right, but a pure devotee, in spite of warning of Kṛṣṇa, they approach the atapaskāya, abhaktāya, and flatter them, "Please take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That we should do. Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. That is explained in the next verse:

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā

mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ

(BG 18.68)

And next śloka He says: na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69): "Anyone who tries to preach this Bhagavad-gītā philosophy, nobody's dearer than him to Me." So we, our business is to become little recognized by Kṛṣṇa. So we shall go on preaching like this at all risk.

Thank you very much. (break)

Guest (1): Some of the latest findings of the psychologists says that when child grows and becomes a man, his ego also develops and it also becomes a man. Now, if the . . . if it is all the ego and his personality and identity also dissolved, and, and how he can live or how we can develop or how we can progress? Because the whole, whole progress is this, the progress of ego.

Prabhupāda: First thing is that ego, if you are qualified with false ego, that ego development is dangerous for you. Suppose you are . . . you are falsely thinking that you are king. Although you are a servant, you are thinking, "I am king." This is false ego. And if you increase this false ego, then where is the benefit? You are misled. Is it not?

Guest (1): That is the personality of man today.

Prabhupāda: No, personality, falsely, he should be personal. You, you should be egoistic in right way, as your position is. If you falsely think that, "I am this," so what is the use of such increasing that ego? It is psychologically wrong. Just like madman, he is thinking, "I am the king of this Ahmedabad." And if he increases that ego, what benefit he'll get? Just like the madman does also. He falls down on the street, "I am the king." (laughs)

So this kind of false ego increasing is simply suicidal. If it is right ego . . . therefore the Vedas says that, "You are not this body. You are spirit soul. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi." That is right ego. And if I am thinking I am this body, then that kind of increasing the ego is a dangerous. That is actual . . . the Americans are, "We are the greatest nation."

The Indians are thinking, Pakistan is thinking. There is fight. You increase your ego, I increase my ego. Then we fight. What is the benefit of this ego? But if every one of us think that, "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa," increase that, then there will be happiness. Everyone is thinking, "I am a competitor of Kṛṣṇa. Why Kṛṣṇa shall become God? I am God." That kind of ego is cause of falldown. It will never become any happy situation.

Guest (2): Sir, in this world, people like us, who are serving the people, they say . . . we say that with all the people, politicians, economists, educators, schools and laborers everywhere, he says, and we repeat also, those who are just like brāhmins and laymen, that īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). And we say that . . .

Prabhupāda: Do you think the politicians follow īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam?

Guest (2): Poor people . . .

Prabhupāda: Then?

Guest (2): What is there in the poor people and . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. When you cite īśāvāsya and at the same time "politicians" and "leader," do you think the leaders and the politicians follow īśāvāsya philosophy?

Guest (2): Serving poor people, we can serve, not by bhajana, simply by repeat some utterances of Kṛṣṇa. If it is like this, and sincerely and seriously, for the whole life, if people do like this . . .? Now how to understand that God is there in nature, everywhere pervading, and He serves the whole body in whatever capacity, then how it can be . . .?

Prabhupāda: So just like I say that there is butter in the milk. And I give you one mound of milk, "Find out the butter." So you have to churn it. Similarly, God is everywhere, that's a fact. Just like a tree. The tree is everywhere—in the leaf, in the twig—but if you have to find out where is the actual tree, it is the root. If you water the root, then the whole tree is nourished, and if you simply water all the leaves, the whole day you will spoil and the tree will be spoiled. That is going on.

You do not know what is the root. Foolishly, you are watering the leaves. What will be the benefit? The tree will die, and your energy will be spoiled. You find out the root. The root is Kṛṣṇa. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi . . . ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). So as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . . just like in this old age, we are traveling all over the world to do benefit to the people because we are hankering that people should become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Don't you think that we are serving the people everywhere? We are not sitting idle.

So anyone who will be really Kṛṣṇa conscious, he'll not be idle. He'll serve the whole human society, everywhere. Not only human society—the animal society, everyone. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will not allow an ant to be killed. But the so-called humanitarians, they're sending ten thousand cows daily to the slaughterhouse. What is the benefit? They do not know what is beneficial work, what is humanitarian work. But a Kṛṣṇa conscious person will think, "Oh, why these animals should be sent to the slaughterhouse?" That is the difference. You be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be automatically done. That is wanted.

Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). If you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you'll see that "Every living entity—not only human society, but the animal society, the bird society, tree society, the aquatic society—all living entities, they're all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I kill a fish or a cow or a goat? He's also son of Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you are doing humanitarian work and sending so many animals, thousands of animals, to the slaughterhouse.

What is this? What these poor animals have done? Because you are not Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are discriminating in this way, that the human society should be given protection, the animal society should be slaughtered. Is that very good? Is that good consciousness? Just like the Christian people say that the animals have no soul—because they want to eat meat. Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." They interpret in a different way.

So you can make your own mental concoction, but if you require to be right person, you have to take direction from the authorities. That is required. (break) . . . without being Kṛṣṇa conscious, anyone who wants to serve, he serves himself only. You see? These leaders, they . . . of course, they give that "We are going to serve the country . . ." Factually, if we study scrutinizingly, he's serving himself only. (laughter) That's all. (break) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (end)