680309 - Interview - San Francisco

Conversations by Date, 1968

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

680309IV-SAN FRANCISCO - March 09, 1968 - 62:47 Minutes

Interviewer: Your Grace, what is the basis of your teachings?

Prabhupāda: The basis of this teaching is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. I have already published my book, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This book is not new. It is very old book, at least five thousand years old, and it is very widely read all over the world. In your country I have seen there are about more than twenty-five different editions, English.

Similarly, there is in German language, in England, in Japan. Everywhere, all over the country, this book is very widely known, Bhagavad-gītā. In other words, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The speaker of this book is Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the subject matter of this book is what is our relationship with God. Then, after understanding what is our relationship with God, we can work accordingly.

Just like you are citizen of America, you have got a particular relationship with the state, and you are expected to work according to that relationship—then you are good citizen, you are law-abiding citizen, and state gives your all protection, and you can improve to the highest perfectional stage. Similarly, if we know our relationship with God, whom we call Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive, and that is the perfect name of God. Unless God is all-attractive, He cannot be God.

God cannot be Hindus' God or Christians' God or Jews' God or Muhammadans' God. No. God is for everyone, and He is all-attractive. He is fully opulent. He is fully in knowledge, perfect in knowledge, perfect in beauty, perfect in renunciation, perfect in fame, perfect in strength. In this way He is all-attractive. So we must know our relationship with God. That is the first subject matter of this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then if we understand our relationship, we can act accordingly.

At the present moment we are—some of us, declining God, "There is no God." Some of them have little conception of God, "God is great," but they do not try to understand what is actual relationship with God. They are not very serious. In this way, practically we are avoiding our eternal relationship with God, and therefore we cannot act properly, and that is the cause of all miseries. That is the cause of all problems. Just like if you do not know the state laws, then you do not act properly; you are always criminal.

For example, if you do not know how to drive, "Keep to the right," if you drive to the left, you may think, "Oh, it is after all driving. What does it matter, right or left?" But no. As soon as you drive left, you become criminal. Similarly, because we do not know our relationship with God, therefore we are acting wrongly, and therefore, under the laws of God, we are becoming more and more criminal and our problems are increasing.

Therefore, in spite of advancement of education, science, civilization, a nice dress, car, and everything, nobody trusts nobody. You see? Everywhere you go, a gentleman's house, oh, "Beware of the dog," "No trespasser allowed." Always suspicious. An individual person is suspicious of another individual person. A nation is suspicious of another nation. A community is suspicious of another community. So how can you have peace and prosperity? Suspiciousness means animal, animalistic.

A dog is suspicious of another dog. As soon as it finds another dog, immediately begins to bark "Bow! Bow! Bow!" So is that human civilization? So what is the mistake of the human civilization? The mistake of the human civilization is that they have forgotten the relationship with God.

So here is the scientific statement of our relationship with God. And then, according to that relationship, exactly in the same way, just like understanding your relationship, your citizenship in a state, you can act nicely, similarly if we know our relationship with God, we can act very nicely, and that is peaceful life.

And besides that, this life, the present life is not all. We have got life after death. That is a fact. Just like we are continuously in life, in this present life. You were a child, I was a child, every one of us were a child. That was a life. Then we became boy, then we became youth. Now we are . . . I am becoming old, and generally, when this body will be useless, I will have to take another body. This is the way.

Unfortunately, the people, they do not believe in the next life, although in everyday affair they are experiencing that, "I am eternal. I can remember the days of my childhood. I can remember the days of my youthhood, my boyhood, and I am still working. That means I am continuously there, although my body in different ways have changed." So it is a fact that even after changing this body, you will have another body. Just like you are sitting in this room. Now, if you vacate this room, that does not mean you are finished. You have gone in some other room.

So this is a great science. And people are neglecting this science. They have no, I mean to say, information. There are so many departments in university—technological, medical, engineering, but where is the department to know and understand what is this life, what is God, what is our relationship? So this is not very good civilization.

So there is life after this life. Just like progressive life, a child is progressing to youthhood—the youth is aspiring to become a big man, important man. As in this life there is progressive life, similarly, life after life, there is also progress. There are different grades of life.

So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, 2,000,000 species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, 3,000,000 types of species of beast and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets . . . the standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet.

But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets . . . the highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Four hundred . . . three thousand years is the duration . . . four hundred and, yes, four hundred and three thousands of years, solar years, is the one unit of yuga. Such thousand yugas makes twelve hours of the Brahmaloka planet. Similarly, they live there for a hundred years.

But these four things, namely birth, death, old age and disease, these four things are everywhere, either you live in this planet or moon planet or sun planet or any other planet. The duration of life may be very, very great. Just like in comparison to the ant, our life, human being—we have got hundred years' age—so to the ant it may be very astonishing, "Oh, how such a great length of time one can live?" Similarly, we may be astonished by hearing twelve hours' duration of Brahmaloka, but actually there is. But still, you cannot avoid death. Death is there.

So from this book we understand from the version of Kṛṣṇa, or God that, ā-brahma bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). Even if you go to the highest planetary system, again you have to come back. In this way, all living entities are rotating from one planet to another, from one species of life to another. But we don't want this, actually. If I say that, "If I give you a nice body, youthful body and eternal body, full of knowledge," would you not like to have it? Nobody likes old age, nobody likes death, nobody likes to die, nobody likes to take birth again, enter into the womb of mother and live there ten months. You are tight packed. Nobody likes.

But what is the solution? Is there any solution by the scientist? No scientist can say: "Well, all right, we shall stop death. We shall stop disease." They can manufacture nice medicine to counteract disease, but they cannot manufacture anything which will stop disease. You can fight against death very nicely, but you cannot stop death. These are the problems.

But there is no education in the modern civilization how to stop death, how to stop disease, how to stop old age, how to stop birth, how to attain eternal life, how to attain blissful life. They have no education. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, although it appears a new movement in your country, but it is known to the world. But nobody had previously attempted to put these ideas and movement in practical shape. So that I am doing. That I am attempting. And with this mission, I have come to your country with the hope that if the American people take it very seriously, then it will be the greatest contribution to the world.

So I have already published this my magazines and my books in this connection. So if people take advantage of this movement, try to understand these books, they will be benefited greatly. That is the basic principle of my teaching. It is the most perfect humanitarian work. Try to understand. We invite anyone. And take it diligently, put your arguments, logic, understanding, and you will find it is sublime. That is the basic principle of my movement.

Interviewer: Let's pause here and let the tape just advance a little bit . . . (indistinct) . . . that would make a good segment. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . consciousness, the next question. Now, this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So for attaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there are several stages. The first stage is faith or inquisitiveness. Just like you have come to me. This is the first stage, out of inquisitiveness or some faith that, "These people are teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have heard it is very nice. Let us see what it is." This is the first stage. This is the first stage. One should be inquisitive and have little faith or little respect for Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "It is very nice. They are speaking . . . doing nice work." This is the first stage.

The second stage is that in the first stage, if you find it, it is interesting, then the second stage is to associate with us, to understand more. Just like we are having our classes three days in a week. We are having class morning daily, but for public we are holding classes in the evening from seven to nine in our temple. Perhaps you know. You have been yesterday there?

Interviewer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we are holding classes there and discussing on this book, having kīrtana, distribution of prasādam, food. It is very nice. There is no labor. Simply you come, you hear nice songs, you dance, you take nice food, you hear nice philosophy and you think over, and you may go home. We don't ask anybody that, "You press your nose like this, you make your head down like this, make exercise like this." We don't ask anybody. But people automatically like to dance with us. Although dance is labor, but they like it. So the next stage is to associate with us, to understand more and more. This is the second stage, to associate. First stage, faith and respect, and second stage, association.

The third stage, if by association one becomes serious that, "I shall become a regular student of Swāmījī," that is third stage. That is called initiation. Just like these boys. They are initiated. So in that stage they are guided by me. They follow strictly. Just like we have got, for the initiated students, we have got six . . . four principles. We do not allow illicit sex life. No.

We do not allow these boys or girls sex life without being married. Yes. This is one regulation. We don't allow them to take anything which is not offered to the Deity. So we offer to the Deity foodstuff—in grains, fruits, flowers, milk products, in that way—no meat, no egg, nothing of this sort. Simple food. They are nutritious. We prepare very . . . perhaps you have participated in our Love Feast in Sundays. Yes.

Woman: We're going to . . . we'll come next Sunday.

Prabhupāda: They like it. So many, hundreds of preparations . . . we can give at least three hundred preparation, many varieties, simply on grains and milk product and fruits. That's all. We don't kill animals, don't kill birds. No. But we make very nice preparation. Everyone likes. So this is one of the restriction, that you cannot take anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is the second restriction.

And the third restriction is no intoxication—no smoking, no drinking, even no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, nothing. These American boys, they are accustomed to all these habits very naturally, but they have given up. They don't take. In our temple there is no tea-taking, no coffee-taking, no cigarette smoking, nothing of this sort, you see. This is the third restriction.

And the fourth restriction is that you cannot take part in gambling or some unnecessary sporting. Because you have to utilize your time. Your time is very short. If you miss this opportunity of human form of life . . . because we do not know when death is coming. It is not that because I am old, I am nearing death, and you are young, you are not nearing death. Who knows that you may die before me? So there is no certainty. So the principle is that because this human form of life is so important to perfect oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he should not waste even a minute. You see? So therefore we don't allow unnecessary sporting. You see? This is simply waste of time.

So no illicit sex life, no meat-eating or animal food, no intoxication, no gambling. So every student has to follow these four prin . . . otherwise I don't initiate. I don't take cheap students that, "You can do whatever you like, and you pay me some money, I give you some mantra, and you become God." I don't say like that. I don't bluff like that. I have not come to earn money from your country, but I have come to your country to give you something sublime, not to take you . . . not to take from you, not to exploit you, but to give you something sublime. You see? So that is the third stage, initiation.

And then, if you are situated in the third stage nicely—that means if you follow the regulative principles under my direction—then the fourth stage automatically come. After this third stage, the fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, up to eighth, automatically comes. That is gradual development. So in the third stage, if you follow the regulative principle and chant with some prescribed number, numerical strength, then your all misgivings will be over automatically.

What are these misgiving? The first misgiving is that I am this body. Everyone is under the concept of this body. This is . . . I am not this body. That is a fact. But body is changing. There are many examples. One of the example is very common example. Suppose a man is dead. Now everybody is crying and if we ask: "Why you are crying?" "Oh, my son is dead." I can say: "Your son is lying here. Why you are saying that he is dead?" "No, no. He is dead. He is gone. His body is lying." Therefore he is different from the body. Immediately you can understand. You say: "No, he is gone. His body is lying." Don't you say at that time?

So you understand at the time of death that the man was different from the body. But during this lifetime, I was taking care of his body only. Why did I take care of he? Because I did not know him. You see? This is a misgiving. In this way there are so many misgivings. We are situated in a platform of misgivings only, misunderstanding, our present conditional life. Just like if my body, this body, I am different from this body, then how can I claim that America is my country? This is also another misgiving. If I do not belong to this body . . . I call myself an American or Indian . . .

(coughs) (aside) Water.

Because accidentally this body is born on the land of America, therefore I call myself American. But if I am not this body, then how I am American? This is another misgiving. Yes.

Then I am calling you as my son; you are calling him as your son. But what he is? He is a product of your body. So if you are not this body, how he is your son? In this way you go on. As soon as you study nicely that you are not this body, you will find that you belong to none of these. You are free. You see? This is called Brahman realization, spiritual realization, this stage, when you understand that "I am not this body. I do not belong to this country. I do not belong to this family. I do not belong to this society." This is negative. Some philosophers are trying to make these things void.

But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness . . . at the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also change.

Because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things. So as soon as I understand that I am not all these, then my consciousness must change, not that my consciousness will stop. If I am in misunderstanding, if I come to the right understanding, that does not mean my understanding is stopped. Rather, my understanding becomes purified. That means if I am not this, then I am this. That we do not know, what is that. That is Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So when we are freed from this illusory consciousness and if we are situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then we get attachment. Because we are attached to all these things—attached to this body, attached to this society, attached to the country, so many things in relationship with the body. Now, after negativating my identity with this false identification, when I come to the right point, then I understand that I am Kṛṣṇa's. I am Kṛṣṇa's.

Then your attachment for Kṛṣṇa increases, because you transferred the attachment. Just like a child. A child is attached to play. But when he grows up, his attachment is transferred to study. That does not mean he gives up the attachment for playing, that attachment is lost. No. Attachment must be there, but that is transferred, or purified.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means purified consciousness, real consciousness. And the next stage, after being freed from misgivings—attachment for the real identity, ruci. Then āsakti, greater attachment. Then an ecstasy. That means I am coming nearer to God. Because I am God's . . . in the beginning I told you that we have forgotten our relationship with God. So when we are out of misgivings, we come to the platform of increasing attachment for God.

So this attachment, when it is perfectional stage, it is called love of God. The love is here also. Instead of loving God, we are now loving dog. Love is there, but when you are out of misgivings, you transfer your love from dog to God. These are the different stages to come to the . . . how do you attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness? These are the stages.

So if we follow cautiously and sentiently these six stages of development, you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness automatically.

Interviewer: Pause here. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . study. This meditation and breathing exercise is not part of our study. Because we are following a method which is direct method. I will give you the example. Just like there is a skyscraper house, and there are staircases to go to the top floor, say, hundredth floor, and there is elevator also. So if you take advantage of the elevator, you reach immediately hundredth floor within a minute, but if you go step by step, step by step, it will take hours.

So this meditation process is not possible at the present age. This meditation was recommended, according to Vedic literature, in the golden age, when the duration of life was very, very long, people were peaceful, there was no disturbance. The exact version in the Vedas is kṛte. Kṛte means in the golden age, when everyone is pious. That is called kṛta-yuga, age of kṛta, very pious age. So in those ages people used to live one hundred thousands of years, and they were very pure; there was no sinful activity. In that stage, meditation was possible.

Meditation requires certain principles. You have to select a solitary, sacred place. You have to sit alone. You have to close your eyes half, not full. If you close your eyes full, then you will sleep. And you have to concentrate on the tip of your nose, and you have to sit straight under posture, and then you have to exercise the breathing. If your inhalation is going this side, then you have to breathe this side. There are so many processes.

So these things are not possible. Because our mind is so disturbed, we are engaged in so many outside work, it is not possible to concentrate on . . . you cannot find out a solitary place. The so-called meditation going on in a class, oh, that is not meditation. Meditation cannot be performed in that way. It must be very solitary place, sacred place, and you have to do it alone. You see? So these facilities are not available at the present age. Besides that, that meditation process will take you a very long time to realize yourself.

So meditation is there in our process, but it is a very quick process. What is that? We loudly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So even if your mind is diverted to some other subject, you will be forced to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have to apply your mind. You see? Either you take it, "Oh, somebody is disturbing," or you are enjoying, you have to . . . you are forced to turn your mind to this side.

And if we go on chanting for a short time, the meditation is always there. And with the dancing, the breathing is also there, but it is a shortcut policy. That policy, the yogic meditation or breathing exercise, samādhi, it is already there in our process. But we don't take in that prescribed way of meditation, because that is not possible in this age. It is very difficult.

So meditation and breathing exercise is not a part of our program, but it is automatically performed by this process of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma . . . that is automatically done. It is so nice process.

Then your next question is, "Is diet an important segment of the work?" Yes. Diet is very important thing. Just like when a patient goes to a physician, he prescribes a certain type of diet. Why? That's a practical fact. Why you accept a physician prescription of diet? Suppose a man is suffering from diabetes; his diet is different. A man is suffering from tuberculosis; his diet is different. A man is suffering from typhoid fever, his diet is different. Therefore diet shall not be extravagant or whimsical, they must be selected.

First of all we have to see what is the diet of the human being. Actually, I have read in some scientific magazine, a medical magazine, that our teeth is not meant for eating meats. These teeth are meant for eating fruits. Actually the shape of the teeth is like that, just like sharp knife. You can . . . apple you can take immediately. But if you take one piece of meat, you cannot eat so easily with these teeth.

So first of all you have to understand what is your diet. So your diet is different from animals' diet. You take anything. Even stool is food for a certain animal, but that does not mean I have to eat stool also. Stool may be eatable for a certain type of animal. "Oh, that is not my diet, or food." Similarly, we have to discriminate.

Now so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious person—we are studying Kṛṣṇa conscious—what is our diet? Our diet is kṛṣṇa-prasādam, what is offered, as I told you, that something is offered to Kṛṣṇa, then we take. We don't take anything direct. Just like these fruits, we have first of all offered to Kṛṣṇa. Here is a plate. Then we take. That is our system. Even we take vegetables, fruits, we don't take directly. We first of all prepare or cut into pieces, offer to the Deity; then we take. Now, the idea is that we take the remnants of food offered to Kṛṣṇa.

Now, when you offer something to some respectable person, you ask him, "What can I offer you?" If I go to your house, and if you want to offer me something to eat, you will ask me what I wish to eat. That is the etiquette. So similarly, we have to offer Kṛṣṇa what Kṛṣṇa likes to eat. So how we can know? In this book we have the things, what Kṛṣṇa wants. He says: "You give Me foodstuff," patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ (BG 9.26), "fruits, flowers, grains, milk, like that." So our diet is Kṛṣṇa prasādam.

Therefore . . . Kṛṣṇa wants these things. We prepare these things, and we eat the remnants of food. If Kṛṣṇa says that, "You give me meat," then we can offer Kṛṣṇa meat also. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, "Give Me fruits, flowers, grains." So we have no quarrel with the meat-eaters. Let them do whatever he likes. But our concern is that unless Kṛṣṇa takes, we don't take.

So in order to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, this is necessary, just like an important segment of the work. We cannot accept anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this diet, this sort of diet, as you have tasted in our Love Feast, that is important. We cannot take outside the scope. So in that sense, diet is important. Besides that, from health point of view also you require a balanced food—carbohydrate, starch, protein and fat. That is scientific. So fat we are getting from milk, butter.

So if I can get fat from milk and butter, why shall I kill the cow and animal? This is humanity. My necessity is to get some milk and fat. The cow is supplying you milk and fat sufficiently. Why should you kill it? I am going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, and I am killing another God's creature? So it is very important work to select diet, if anyone is serious to become God conscious, or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore in our program meat-eating is forbidden. So diet is very important in that sense.

The next question is, "So, what is the significance . . ." I think I've already explained this. "Is there a probationary period for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or does one attain this enlightening according to his own rate of development?" Yes. Everything requires little enthusiasm. Just like a boy is going to school with no enthusiasm and a boy is going to school with nice enthusiasm. One boy is passing in the first class, first division, and another boy is failing or he's passing in the third division. So the probation period, of course, I've already explained: to associate with us, the second stage. First stage is faith and respect, the second stage is association. That is probational period.

And so far attaining enlightenment according to one's rate of development, that development depends on your enthusiasm, how far you are serious. But one should become very serious. That is the law in every sphere of achievement. So for attaining to the perfectional stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one should be very much enthusiastic. Yes. I must attain to the perfectional stage in this life.

And then one should be patient also. Enthusiasm does not mean if I attain something, immediately the result is immediate. No. The result may be delayed, but we should not be disturbed. But we must go on working with enthusiasm. This is called patience. So enthusiasm, patience and confidence. Because we believe in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that if you do this, you get this result.

Therefore I must have confidence. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that simply by understanding Him, what He is, how does He come, how does He walk, one immediately gets passport to enter into the spiritual kingdom. So we must have confidence that, "I am working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must go back to Godhead, back to home." This confidence. So enthusiasm, patience, confidence.

And . . . uttsayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma . . . niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanā (Upadeśāmṛta 3). Simply enthusiasm but no work . . . but you must be engaged in the prescribed duties of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you must keep always yourself in the association of devotees. These things are, I mean to say, impetus for development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So the more you enthuse yourself with these six principles: patience, enthusiasm, then confidence, then engaging in the activities, keeping association with devotees and avoiding association with nondevotees . . . that is also another thing. Just like if you want to ignite a fire, then the more the dried the wood is, you get good fire. If you get wet wood, the fire is very difficult to burn.

Therefore we should keep ourself dry from being wet by the association of nondevotees. That is also another process. You see. If you come to our class and go to some other class, some nightclub class, then it is counteracted immediately. You see. So you have to, if you want to ignite fire, you must protect it from water. And if you ignite fire and pour water, then what is the benefit? Nothing. So to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to keep company with devotees. Similarly, you have to avoid the company of nondevotees. So these six principles will develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

And then your last question is, "Does Kṛṣṇa consciousness bring in karmic action as part of its belief?" Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness activities apparently seem to be karma. We must understand what is the difference between karma and bhakti. Just like we are using this tape records, this microphone. So if you go to a politician, you will find the same paraphernalia. I am speaking and he's also speaking interview. So apparently it appears all the same. But this is bhakti and that is karma.

Then what is the difference between bhakti and karma? Karma means you do something, and whatever you do, there is result. So you take the result also. Suppose you do some business. So the result is one million dollars' profit. So you take it. And the result is one million dollars' loss. You take it. This is karma. You act on your own account and you take the result. Is it clear? This is called karma. But our activity is for Kṛṣṇa. So we act. If there is profit, it is Kṛṣṇa's. If there is loss, it is Kṛṣṇa's. We are unaffected.

We are making this preaching work of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If somebody comes, he's Kṛṣṇa's, he's not mine. These boys serving me, not for my sense gratification; for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Similarly, if he goes to serve a master, he serves the master for the sense gratification of the particular person. Therefore he pays him. So he does not serve that master, he serves that payment. And what is that payment? For his sense gratification. Therefore he serves his sense gratification. The karma is serving one's sense gratification. And bhakti is serving Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, "Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied in this way." We work in that way. So it is not karma.

And as soon as I'll work, "Oh, I'll get this money and satisfy my senses," that is karma. So I become subject to the result. It may be good or bad. But when you work for Kṛṣṇa, He is all good. There is no question of bad. And all good goes to the all-good. I'm simply His eternal servant. That's all. Another example: this finger takes some foodstuff and gives to the stomach. So when the stomach is satisfied, the finger is satisfied automatically. It does not require to take separately any food. But the karmīs are trying to enjoy themselves. Just like the finger—if it takes a nice cake and if he thinks that, "Why shall I give it to the stomach?" so it cannot eat, it simply spoils. That's all.

So you are spoiling our energy without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And therefore you are being subjected to the laws of transmigrating from one species of life. We are simply spoiling our time and energy. So if we take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the proper utilization of our energy given by God. Just like if I'm healthy, the finger is also healthy. Then what is the duty of the healthy finger? To serve this body.

Similarly, we have got this energy from Kṛṣṇa, from God. So if you utilize this energy from Kṛṣṇa then it is proper utilization. If you utilize the energy for our sense gratification, then you are misusing. So anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's spoiling his time, wasting his life and subjecting himself in so many laws of nature.

So these things are very nicely explained in this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is the preliminary study of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if one studies this book nicely, then he goes to other books. I've got this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the project is very great. It will have to be finished in sixty volumes like this. So about ten, twelve volumes are already finished. So I'm going on working on this.

So it is a great subject matter for study. So people should take interest in it. It is not anything trifle thing. People should come to us to understand. We have got literature. We have got philosophy. Everything we have got. It is not a blind, imposing thing, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So everyone who actually wants to give some service to the society, to the humanity, they must study this philosophy and get prepared to meet anyone—scientists, philosopher, poet, thoughtful men—and we can give answer to all their questions.

But our method is very simple. We call everyone, even to the child, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," and he gradually realizes. But if anyone wants to understand this philosophy through knowledge, through books, through philosophy, logic, we are prepared. But for the mass of people we give the simple method: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, and he realizes. All these boys, they're not philosophers, they're not very highly learned, but they're developing simply by chanting. This is so nice. It is for the greatest scholar and it is for the innocent boy. Therefore it is universal. Even for the animals. Yes. We have seen. Sometimes dogs, they also dance to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness chanting. Yes.

So?

Guest: (indistinct) . . . very effective.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you should cooperate with us. So your questions are finished? Any extra question, you can ask if you like.

Guest: I wanted, may I ask you about reincarnation. (break) (end)