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771103 - Conversation H - Vrndavana

From Vanisource

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



771103R8-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1977 - 68:59 Minutes



Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read this letter? It's from Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Swami.

Prabhupāda: You have read already.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that was Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. This is Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa, from New Zealand. He says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda . . ." (break)

Prabhupāda: When you gave me that milk?

Bhakti-caru: This morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What time?

Bhakti-caru: Quarter past eight, I think.

Prabhupāda: And what is time now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's about 10:30.

Prabhupāda: So, every two hours give me something. Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya! That's nice program.

Prabhupāda: Little, little.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That will be . . .

Bhakti-caru: Next I'll give you some barley and milk. Would you like to have some bati chachari, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Bati chachari?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Bhakti-caru: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe some fried potol too.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, fried potol and some bati chachari. Would you like to have some cāpāṭi with that, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Cāpāṭi? Or some rice?

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) I'll not be able to take. Better not bother. This fruit juice or milk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, better to take . . .

Bhakti-caru: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe there's some way, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the potol can be made into a texture that you can easily accept. Once you have to chew it, it's difficult for you.

Bhakti-caru: I can do one thing—cut the potol in small pieces and let it boil for say hour or two, so all the juice will come out. It will be some kind of a soup.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Potol soup.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Make it in a way that Prabhupāda can take it.

Bhakti-caru: Yes, there won't be any solid thing, only that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good. I think liquids are easier for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The kavirāja also said that, that for now, liquids are best. That will be nice.

Śatadhanya: Also the avocado preparation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Avocados you can take.

Bhakti-caru: Next we'll give you at 12:30, so after two hours we'll give you some barley water, barley milk and some avocado, like yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I go on reading, Śrīla Prabhupāda? He says that book distribution is doubling there also. He says, "On the farm we are doing spring planting, and this year seven acres is being put into crops, an increase over last year, since the population has grown. The farm is now famous throughout the country as . . ."

Prabhupāda: If you give me some rest, I can sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we give Prabhupāda some rest?

Upendra: Some pillows.

Bhavānanda: Support.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Back rest. (break) ". . . with your permission we would like to come and visit you sometime later this year, as it has now been so long since I have had your personal association." Do you give him permission to come visit you?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "I am a fallen wretch, but I am hoping and praying to the best of my capacity that your health will improve." (break) Do you like Bharadvāja to sing a little?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (to Bharadvāja) You can sing now? (break) Well, the kavirāja will be coming back to take us there. Better that we follow his advice and let this medicine work a little while, see if you get some strength, and let him come and take us there as he promised he would do. There is no reason why we should jump ahead. As we have placed ourself under a competent kavirājī, better we take his advice, as long as we don't find it to be harmful.

Prabhupāda: When we expect him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We expect him to come the day after Diwali.

Prabhupāda: When there is Diwali?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When that is? Diwali is the 10th or 11th. I think the Marwari community, they celebrate on the 10th. So we expect him on the 11th or by the latest the 12th, which means one week from today. Do you mind waiting that long?

Prabhupāda: I was thinking if we have to go, what do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because he's also said that he will give you some medicine for helping you to take the trip easily. No reason to rush, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Our original reason for delaying was to give you time to get a little more strength. That kavirāja felt pretty confident that if we wait this long, you will get some more strength. I think we should wait. Everyone is feeling that way. You're not unhappy here, are you?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You look very peaceful, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) He was not talking, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: "Without your blessings, how can I get compassion?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And without your blessings, how could we distribute so many? We directly see the proof of that verse, that the more the Pañca-tattva saw that these fruits of love of God were distributed, the more they relished. We find in distributing your books that the more we distribute your books, the more blissful we feel. This book distribution is actually a part of our daily lives, just like . . . It is one of the regulative principles practically. Chant sixteen rounds, follow the four regulative principles, and distribute Prabhupāda's books. Everyone, sometime in the day, does some book distribution or helps in some way the book distribution. (break) . . .distribution has begun, the devotees enjoy it so much that they even like to do book distribution more than the Life Membership. The ecstasy of approaching people, person by person, simply on the friendship of your books, is the highest of all pleasures. (break)

Prabhupāda: So far I am thinking, I'm not improving in strength. And how can I improve by drinking little barley and milk and little fruit juice? I have no appetite for anything else. In case I . . . Most probably, I am diminishing my strength. So?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Most probably diminish your strength?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How? I don't see that you're diminishing in your strength.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I cannot sit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you haven't been able to sit for a long time. You mean you cannot sit up now even.

Prabhupāda: In that also, I have diminished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact. Now when you try and sit up, you always fall over to the side.

Prabhupāda: So in case . . . "In case," no. From the fact, I can see that I have no appetite. Then how I can increase strength?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I can only repeat the words of the kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He states that you can't expect to eat as long as the liver and the kidneys are not functioning properly.

Prabhupāda: So that is not functioning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he says that he can get it to function properly.

Prabhupāda: He says, but I practically see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But his medicine cannot . . . He also says that his medicine cannot be judged over a period of five or six days. He's not claiming . . .

Prabhupāda: I mean in case I do not increase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. Okay. In case you don't increase. Because I don't think we can say . . . Unless we want to say that this kavirāja is absolutely wrong. But if we accept . . .

Prabhupāda: You cannot say wrong or right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with that. So we have to say "in case." So what is your point, Śrīla Prabhupāda? That in case you don't gain strength . . .

Prabhupāda: Than what I will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, why don't we decide that when the time comes?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why don't we cross that hurdle when the time comes?

Prabhupāda: It is already come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, no, because we're still saying "in case."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Because I don't feel appetite for anything except that little one sip barley and one sip juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But again, the point is that the whole idea of this medicine is that it takes time.

Prabhupāda: Practically I have seen that it is not working.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you're not allowing sufficient time, according to the kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: What time? I could not . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he says fifteen days. He said fifteen.

Bhakti-caru: Minimum.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said a minimum of fifteen days. It's been about six days, five days.

Prabhupāda: No, no. In case it is not successful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why don't we wait for that "in case."

Prabhupāda: We are waiting, but in case. (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa laughs)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Āyurveda doctor was telling that one great factor is your willpower. That's very important.

Prabhupāda: I am losing my willpower, because practically I see that I am becoming more and more weak.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said you're losing your willpower?

Bhakti-caru: Don't you think there has been a slight improvement, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Over last few days there has been a little improvement?

Prabhupāda: What is that improvement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the improvement?

Bhakti-caru: Your intake has increased. Your voice sounds stronger than before.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) What you will do with the voice?

Bhakti-caru: That's a sign of strength.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why don't you consider? In case it is not successful . . . Upāyān cintayet prajñā apāyān ca cintayet(?). Two things side by side: success or failure. In case it is failure, then what you'll do? You cannot guarantee anything success. Maybe success; maybe failure. If kavirāja's suggestion, if it becomes success, that's very good. But if it is failure . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can we give a recommendation on this question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I mean . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. What you will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What we will do next?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we will go on. We'll go on trying.

Prabhupāda: What trying?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well . . . Go on giving you juice and barley water, kīrtana. Maybe eventually the situation will change. How can we stop trying to feed you and take care of you? Kṛṣṇa can intercede at any moment.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose if you want to move me from this place. That is the question.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. We're going to move you if we see some positive improvement.

Prabhupāda: That is the point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the whole reason for waiting, is that you're supposed to get stronger by waiting.

Prabhupāda: We shall wait, but from practical point I cannot drink more than one cup of milk and one cup of fruit juice. That is practically happening.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that certainly is the fact right now.

Prabhupāda: Each . . . Right now I am . . . I am thinking it may not improve.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I know you are thinking that there will be no improvement, but we are a little hopeful.

Prabhupāda: Hopeful . . . Hope against hope—that is natural. But I am becoming hopeless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well we are not yet hopeless.

Prabhupāda: What is the value of your hope? I am the practical man. (devotees chuckle) Then, if it is failure, what you will do? That I am asking.

Bhavānanda: One thing we could do is begin twenty-four-hour kīrtana again.

Prabhupāda: That's all. I am afraid you may not put me in the hospital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Prabhupāda, we're not going to do that. We already said that we would never do that.

Prabhupāda: If you . . . what is called, want to move me, so what arrangement will be made?

Bhavānanda: What arrangement we have made?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Moving is no problem. But we say that we're not going to move you unless you show improvement. But we're not going to put you in the hospital. That is not going to happen. We can always take up the program of twenty-four-hour kīrtana.

Bhavānanda: Massage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you can fast. That's . . . But why should we suggest that at this point? It is not proper for us to suggest that. Obviously we could say that, but that's not very . . . That means hopeless. So we cannot become hopeless. As your disciples, we can't become hopeless. And putting you in the hospital means hopeless. That's sure. Hospital is absolutely useless.

Śatadhanya: Neither we would ever go against your instruction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not within our . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda, we only took you to the hospital in London because Your Divine Grace said we should take you there. Otherwise we were not going to do that on our own. We did not go there on our decision.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that starving and chanting and little gaṅgā-jala or . . . In this way let me pass away peacefully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, first of all let us see this treatment out properly.

Bhavānanda: That you can always do. Fasting, that you can always do. But let us see this treatment through. We have hopes in it. And for moving you, what arrangements, that kavirāja has said he will come here and move you personally. But he didn't want to move you for the next fifteen days.

Prabhupāda: What you will know?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: If there is no actual strength . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's why now we won't move you. But if strength comes, then we can move you. The whole reason for going to Māyāpur, one of the main reasons . . .

Prabhupāda: I admit that it will be very nice if I can go to Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there should be some strength. So we also say that. So let some strength come; then we'll move you. And if it doesn't come, then we'll stay here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So in case things deteriorate . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Upendra: In case things deteriorate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes?

Prabhupāda: . . . don't move me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. We're moving you on the basis that you get strength. That's why we're waiting this time. We're not fanatical that we have to be in Māyāpur. The basis of being in Māyāpur was that if you showed sign of improvement, then changes for good . . .

Prabhupāda: Then I shall also be very glad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. So that is the basis for moving you, that there should be some positive strength shown.

Prabhupāda: Now there is no strength.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī has come to see you. Shall we have him come in now, or . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Set up the chair. He'll be coming in a minute or two.

Prabhupāda: Get one small light.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Śatadhanya, the one on the right. On the right.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he hasn't come in yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

(Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī enters, chanting japa)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? (Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī chanting japa)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: It is wonderful that he is speaking so nicely, with full sense.

Bhakti-caru: (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) He's saying that it's wonderful that he's in full consciousness.

Prabhupāda: He doesn't expect this consciousness in this condition. Therefore he is astonished. Actually, physically—finished, everything. So wherefrom the voice coming and wherefrom intelligence coming, that he is astonished. (Bengali with Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī about Māyāpur) (break) So fix up this program: kīrtana, and whatever little I want to eat, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you'll continue to take the kavirāja's medicines?

Prabhupāda: That I'll go on. What is that? If there is any improvement, welcome. Otherwise there is no question of moving me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. (break) There has to be some actual improvement before you should move. Otherwise, you are already here in Vṛndāvana, so why move?

Prabhupāda: That is my point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if actually you can show signs of improving and recovering, then there is reason to move for health.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Traveling now should only be undertaken for health purposes.

Prabhupāda: That is welcome. But at the present moment, I don't see any such . . . (Bengali; speaks of hospital)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Why Tamāla Kṛṣṇa gone?

Śatadhanya: I'll get him, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Bābājī Mahārāja also I have consulted, that "Being afraid, don't move me in the hospital." He also says, "No, don't do."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not going to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That Saṁjāta dāsa? You know Saṁjāta dāsa, the architect from Bhuvaneśvara? He passed away recently. So I asked Gaura-Govinda what were the circumstances. So he explained that he had been very ill for four or five days. They took him to the hospital. So the doctors gave some drugs for reducing the fever. But suddenly he died. When he died he was unconscious. Gaura-Govinda said maybe it was due to the drugs that caused some severe reaction. We see one example after another that these hospitals, they are simply meant to kill, not to save life. I mean, I don't think we have any faith either in them, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And apart from our faith, which makes no difference, you strictly ordered it. So we're not going to disobey your order under any circumstance, even if we risk our own life. If someone says to us that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja," then we'll say, "Then kill us." Your order is our command.

Prabhupāda: What does he say? They will kill?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I said supposing someone threatens us with our life, that "We will kill you if you don't let us take your Guru Mahārāja to the hospital," still, we will not let them take you. Your order is our business to follow, even at the risk of our life. So we are not going to take you to the hospital under any condition. Neither . . . Not only is it your order, but we also see absolutely no benefit from these hospitals. Your order is sufficient, but apart from that, also, from our own limited intelligence, we also see that the hospitals are condemned. These doctors are blind, these allopathic doctors.

Prabhupāda: That is my only request, that at the last stage don't torture me and put to death. So I am not eating anything, and if we chant, by batches chant, I'll hear. (Bengali to Bābājī)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali) Hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. That is the medicine. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the decision, that in case it does not improve, let me die here. If it improves, I shall be very glad to go. (Bengali to Bābājī)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Improvement hasn't come yet. Simply because you're drinking more, passing more urine, is not the sign of any improvement.

(Bengali conversation between Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali)

(Bengali conversation continues between Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī)

Prabhupāda: Urine; perhaps stool.

Upendra: It's fixed up, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end).