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770514 - Conversation - Hrishikesh

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



770514ED-HRISHIKESH - May 14, 1977 - 69:58 Minutes



Prabhupāda: Fifth Canto, fifth chapter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifth Canto, fifth chapter? I don't have the first volume, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We only have the second volume of Fifth Canto with us.

Prabhupāda: No other Bhāgavatam?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We do. We have Prahlāda Mahārāja teachings, Seventh Canto.

Prabhupāda: No, Bhāgavata original?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Original Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paṇḍitjī might have taken.

Prabhupāda: Ask Pradyumna.

Upendra: Is he downstairs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think so.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Upendra: Paṇḍitjī's not here.

Prabhupāda: Why he does not remain here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He does his work at the Svargāśrama. He's supposed to come here to explain. He's been coming every day.

Prabhupāda: You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body . . ." Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13): "After this body is finished, another body." Because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body.

So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed." Therefore He says, ayaṁ dehaḥ: "This body should not be misused like animals," āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. This is the advice. Ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. He especially mentions, nṛloke: "in the human form of body." The dog, cat, or doglike man, catlike man, they may remain in ignorance. They have no chance. There are uncivilized men. Although they have got two hands, two legs, but because there is no knowledge, they have been described as dvi-pada-paśu. They are animal with two legs. Other animals, they have got four legs, and this rascal has got two legs. That is the difference. So ayaṁ dehaḥ, this body, na ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke . . . Nāyaṁ dehaḥ nṛlo . . . deha-bhājām. Deha-bhājām. This is also very significant. There are innumerable living entities. Jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa anantyāya kalpate (CC Madhya 19.140). These jīvas, living entities, part and parcel of God, anantyāya kalpate. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? The sunshine, this is very atomic parts of the sun brightness. They are individual, but they are combined. We see one shining. So similarly, God is compared with the sun, and we are atomic particles of God—the same thing in a very small quantity. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca. You take the tip of the hair and divide it into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the formation of the jīva.

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
śatadhā kalpitasya ca
jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
sa ānantyāya kalpate
(CC Madhya 19.140)

You cannot count how many there are.

Now these, some of the jīvas . . . Not all of them. Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering, one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1): "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement is . . ." (break) . . . motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapa divyam.

So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman. Anantam: "There is no end." Here, whatever happiness you are getting, that is not unlimited. Limited. That limited happiness is available in the life of cats and dogs also. So the human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam.

So this tapasya can be practiced . . . Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). You have to render your service to mahat, mahat, mahātmā. And who is mahātmā? Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). This is mahātmā. Kṛṣṇa says. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā
(BG 7.19)

One who has understood Kṛṣṇa—"Vāsudeva is everything"—he is mahātmā. Sa mahātmā. So that is recommended. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). If you get the chance of getting such mahātmā, then try to give him service. Become his servant. Then your path of liberation will be open. And tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam: those who are after sense gratification, if you associate with them, then you are going to the darkness. Two ways are open: āhur vimukteḥ and dvāram, tamo-dvāram. Now make your choice, "In which way we shall go: in this way or that way?"

Everything is given, information, in the Bhagavad-gītā and all other śāstras. Bhagavad-gītā is the gist of all Vedas and Upaniṣads, Vedānta. Vedānta-kṛd vedānta-vit. Kṛṣṇa is vedānta-vit and vedānta-kṛt. Kṛṣṇa, in His incarnation as Vyāsadeva, He has compiled the Vedānta-sūtra. He has recommended also in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). Brahma-sūtra-padaiḥ, everything is established very reasonably. So Kṛṣṇa is speaking Vedānta-sūtra. Veda means knowledge; anta means the end of knowledge. The end of knowledge is to understand Kṛṣṇa. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). Man of knowledge is jñānavān. So ordinary jñānavān, little knowledge, they cannot understand. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). But a person cultivating knowledge for many lives, he can understand, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vāsudeva personally explaining Himself, "I am like this; I am like that." Why should we not understand? What is the objection? Boliye.

Indian man (1): There should be no objection.

Prabhupāda: But people are not following Vāsudeva. They are creating new Vāsudeva. And somebody told that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man? Trivikrama Mahārāja or somebody told me. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, the people who are coming in at night are saying that.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

vāsudeve bhagavati
bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
(SB 1.2.7)

In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies, they are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like; inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. (Hindi) Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister. (Hindi with scattered English words) Practical application. (Hindi) (pause) (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with scattered English) Ahaituky apratihatā. That is bhakti. (Hindi) Without bhakti, jñāna is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend . . . Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked. (Hindi) Bhagavān is within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He assures . . . (Hindi) A special favor. (Hindi) The so-called jñānī, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme—kāṅkṣati. When actually one is self-realized, na kāṅkṣati. Yogī kāṅkṣati. (Hindi conversation) Bhagavān is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is . . . (indistinct) . . . (Hindi) Then where is that picture? The gopīs are pushing Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa? (Hindi)

Indian man (1): Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, no, no.

Indian man (1): Rādhārāṇī, sorry.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (1): Therefore all the cowherd girls are trying to push Her to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (1): Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (1): Therefore all the cowherd girls are trying to push Her to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "Oh? Kṛṣṇa likes Her?" They become envious. But here: "Oh? Kṛṣṇa likes Her? All right."

Indian man (1): To please Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The purpose is to please Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1): (Hindi) I am explaining in Hindi (to another guest). (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is Vṛndāvana. That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that . . . Aiye. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā tāre bali kāma (CC Adi 4.165). (Hindi) The gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa . . . (Hindi)

Indian man (1): That is kāma.

Prabhupāda: The desire is "How Kṛṣṇa will be happy." (Hindi) The Western countries . . . (Hindi).

Indian man (1): That is all sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That's all. There is no prema. There cannot be any prema within this material world. All kāma. (Hindi)

Indian man (1): This is prema.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This picture has appealed to me, this picture, "Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī. Push Her." (Hindi) This is prema, in the beginning of. (Hindi) Arcanam. This is called arcanam. Arcanam. Arcā-mūrti-sevā. (Hindi conversation)

śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-
śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau
yuktasya bhaktāṁś ca niyuñjato 'pi
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
(Śrī Śrī-gurv-aṣṭaka 3)

(Hindi conversation) Thank you very much. (Hindi) Australia, Sydney. (Hindi) So next time you are here . . . (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have a photograph. Should I bring it? Sydney.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All we had was this Melbourne photo. We don't have the Sydney . . . We have the Melbourne Deities. Still, it's nice.

Prabhupāda: Melbourne and Sydney, white.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I knew it was Australia.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Melbourne. (Hindi) A section of Americans, they are Hindus. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about 6:30 now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Have saṅkīrtana.

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Indian man (2): You haven't got a copy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have the original, not a copy.

Prabhupāda: You can give him this.

Indian man (2): If I . . . If I could have access to it?

Prabhupāda: He's done(?).

Indian man (2): Yes, you can safely believe. (Hindi) But I couldn't follow all the legal words. I thought it was . . .

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (1): He says that he passed his M.A . . . He passed his M.A.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (1): And there he told it's all right to faith . . .

Indian man (2): Faith.

Indian man (1): Faith.

Indian man (2): Faith, yes, yes.

Indian man (1): Not Christianity or not Hinduism. Anything you like.

Prabhupāda: Not anything.

Indian man (1): Not anything?

Prabhupāda: Religion.

Indian man (2): Religion.

Prabhupāda: Not anything.

Indian man (2): Everyone has right to follow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every man has right to follow any, mean, established religion. And they have accepted this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is established religion in India for many thousands of years.

Indian man (2): Only there should be no fault.

Prabhupāda: There is no fault. There is no fault. Everyone is learning voluntarily. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we hold kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (kīrtana begins) (end).