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760815 - Conversation - Bombay

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760815ED-BOMBAY - August 15, 1976 - 20:20 Minutes

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Devotee: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: So mind, his business is to think something. But ordinarily the thinking is we accept something and reject something. Or accept the same thing and again reject the same thing. This business is going on. But if you think of question, there is no question of rejecting. Simply accepting. Then it is fixed up. Other things you accept and reject. Something we accept as "Oh, it is very good." Again, "No, no, it is not good." Accepting. Childish. Child is playing, one type of playing, "No, no, another one." That is material. And when you fix up—no rejection, simply accept it—that is Kṛṣṇa . . . so if you think of Kṛṣṇa . . . just like here is temple. If you come and, as other devotees are doing, if you do, if you attend maṅgala-ārati, if you attend bhoga-ārati, always see, then offer obeisances, then naturally you will think of Kṛṣṇa always. Then as you think of Kṛṣṇa, you become purified. Just like if you touch with fire you remain always warm. Similarly, man-manā, if you always think of Kṛṣṇa, you gradually become fully Kṛṣṇa-ized, Kṛṣṇa's devotee, Kṛṣṇa's servant. That is perfection. There is no difficulty. People will not do that. That is the difficulty. "Why shall I think of Kṛṣṇa? I shall think of this, I shall think of that." This is the difficulty. Otherwise not difficulty. You have to think something, think of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finished.

Guest : Ye sanskar se hi nahi hota hai. (Does this not come with cultural values.)

Prabhupada: Sanskar nahi ye hamara zid hai nahi karte, ye badmashi. (Not cultural values, this is our obstinacy, this is foolishness.) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtinaḥ. Badmash, rascal, karega. Jaise child hota hai, koi baat sunega hi nahi, itna accha baat hai, nahi sunega, badmash hai, usko joota se theek karna hai, maya joota se theek karna hai, koi mushkil nahi hai, kahega nahi to mar do, joota se theek karo. (Rascal, he will do it. Just like a child, he does not listen to anyone. Such a fact, he will not listen, he is foolish rascal. He has to be beaten with the shoes to make him understand, illusion can be driven away by beating him with shoes. It is not very difficult.) Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Joota khate-khate phir theek ho jayega. (Beating with shoes by māyā, that's all.) Kaam bhi hai, maya ki kaam hi hai. (If he is stubborn and refuses then beat him with shoes. By being hit with shoes a number of times, he will understand. This is the work of illusion.) (someone enters) Oh, when you have come?

Woman: This morning.

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of you.

Woman: Oh, yes?

Prabhupāda: So did you go to Bangkok?

Woman: No, I'm going very soon.

Prabhupāda: Maar khane me hi hai, wo bolta hai nahi . . . (It is in the beating, he refuses . . .) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Jab tak criminal rahega pitega police se khoob aur udhar badmashi chod dega police se bachne ke liye. (As long as he is a criminal, he will be beaten by the police and if he transforms to escape the police.) "mam eva parapadyante mayam etam taranti te", pehle to police se mar khao. (first you are beaten by the police.)

Guest: Mayavadi to ye . . . me zyada tha. Idhar zyada hai ki udhar? Indian side me ki west me? (The impersonalists . . . was more. Is it more here in India or there? On the Indian side or the western?)

Prabhupada: Hum to Indian ya wo sub jante nahin. sides nahi kahin bhi hoye. Indian Māyāvādīs are more dangerous. Udhar Māyāvādī kuch nahi hai, sab materialist hain. yehi to sub india ko kharab kar diya hai. (I don't know, Indian or others, there are no sides, wherever they are. There are no impersonalists, only materialists. They only have spoiled the name of India.) Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). Anyone who is influenced by Māyāvādī, he's doomed.

Indian man: He's doomed.

Prabhupāda: He's finished. No more spiritual knowledge. He's doomed.

Indian man: How far the study of the scriptures helps us in being Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: You read Bhagavad-gītā. That is the essence of all scriptures. And follow it. It is, from the very beginning to the end, it is simply helping you. You haven't got to read many literatures. Just like these American, European boys, they are with me for the last, utmost seven, eight years. Otherwise, three years, four years. So how are they becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious? It is not at all difficult. They are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and becoming perfect. But in India, "Why shall I worship Kṛṣṇa? I have got this, I have got that." He'll bring thousands of Kṛṣṇa competitors, and he'll himself, he has become Kṛṣṇa, "I am God." You see? He's so shameless that he says that, "I am God." God is so cheap. He's shameless. He has no shame even, how he says that he is God? Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. So-called jñānī means māyayāpahṛta-jñāna.

Indian man: Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: Māyayā apahṛta-jñāna. Māyā. Maya uska gyan cheen liya aur wo samajhta hai hum bada gyani hai. Hai to wo moorkh No 1 aur wo samajhta hai hum gyani. Uska naam hai 'maya apahṛta-jñāna' apahrta mane cheen liya, wo mayavadi. (Illusion has taken away his knowledge and he is thinking that he is very intelligent, actually he is fool No. 1 and he understands that he is highly intelligent. His name is "māyayāpahṛta-jñāna" apahrta means taken away, he is an impersonalist. Who is very very much under the influence of māyā, he is Māyāvādī.) Unless he is too much under the influence of māyā, how can he say that, "I am God"? Which is impossible? Samjh lijiye koi baccha bol diya mai raja, ab bol dene se ho gaya raja. Itna saral se raja ho gaya. Rajya chahiye, praja chahiye, ministers chahiye. (Just think some child simply said that I am king, will he become king just by saying, is it so easy to become king, there should be a kingdom, there should be subjects, there should be ministers.) So many things which make one rāja, and if you simply imagine, "I am rāja," so how much rascal he is, just see. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Isliye Chaitanya Mahaprabhu kehte hai, (That is why Caitanya Mahaprabhu says,) Māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If one follow the Māyāvādīs and thinks that, "I am God," then he is finished. His future is finished.

Guest: Wo to gyan cheen liya isse wo is stage par aagaya. (Because his knowledge was taken away, so he has come to this stage.)

Prabhupada: . . . agyan ho gaya pagal nahi. Jaise aadmi koi pagal ho jaye to phir uska diagnosis hoga. jivan-mrtya, pran rehte hue bhi mrtyu. Ek pagal wo hai aur ek pagal karmi. "Nunam pravatta kurute vikarma" karmi zyada hai. Ek factory ko samajhta hai hum khoob parishram karke khoob rapay-paisa kama ke sukhi ho jayenge. Ye ek pagal hai. Aur ek pagal hai humne parishram to bahut kiya par sukhi to nahi ho saka. Ab bhagavan . . . (. . . he has become ignorant not mad. Like if some person becomes mad then he is diagnosed. Life and death, even though alive, is as good as dead. He is mad and another mad man is a fruitive worker, more number of fruitive workers. He considers that he will work very hard, earn a lot of money and be happy. This is one mad man and another mad man. I worked hard but could not become happy. Now God . . .)

Guest: Wo kya sochta hai? (What does he think?)

Prabhupada: To sochta hai ye jhoot hai, jagat mithya hai uske peeche nahi jana chahiye, hum bhagavan hain. Uske baad ye satya, bhagvan bola hai satya. Ye sab chal raha hai, isliye bhagvan kehta hai "sarva dharman parityajya" kuch vyakti to ye samajh lete hain ki hum karmi hokarke, parishram karke, rupaiya-paisa kamake, sarvatah raja ho karke, ye sab hkarke hum sukhi honge. Samajhta nahi ki isme sukh nahi. Ye ek pagal, ye ek pagal. (So he thinks that this is false, the world is an illusion; we must not run behind it. I am God, after this truth, God has revealed the truth. This is going on. That is why God says: "sarva dharman parityajya". Some people think that by being a fruitive worker, working hard, earning lots of money, becoming a king, doing all this I will become happy but he does not understand that this is not happiness. So this is one mad man and that is another mad man.) Aur real sanity is jo bhagvan ka das ho jaye. bus. Wo din kab ayega jab hum sochenge ki hamara prabhu hai wo hamara sar chipakar raksha karta hai. is tarah se main . . . hounga. Jaise koi vyakti nisahay aur ek admi janta hai ki hamara pitaji hai, hamara matron hai, wo hamara raksha karega. Aiye baithiye. (And real sanity is to become the servant of God, that's all. When will that day come when I will understand that I have a Lord, He will give shelter and protect me. This way I will become . . . like a person who is helpless and another person knows that I have a father. I have a matron, they will protect me. Come, sit. That is very nice that, "I have got a protector.")

Indian man: Ek sanath. Mane ek nath hai, sanath. Anath and sanath. (One can be fearless, free. One with a protector, means one Lord, protector and orphan.)

Prabhupāda: Aur jo . . . wo anath hai. Jaise anth children hota hai bechare rasta me ghoomta phirta hai. Wo sanath jo janta hai ki hamare pitaji. Ye Natural hai (And one who has no one is an orphan. Like the orphans who roam around in the streets. That is one who knows that I have a father. Oh, yes. He's fearless. This is natural.) I have seen in my practical life. Long ago I was going in a tram car. So my son, he was two years old. The conductor said "Paisa lao, to bolta "paisa nahi." To conductor bolta hai utar jaiye. "Hah! Hamara pitājī he!" hum kaise utar jaye. Ye sanath. (The conductor said: "Give money" so he said: "I don't have money." The conductor said: "Then get down" He said: "Why, my father is there, how can I get down?" This is protected. He's confident, "My father is there. How can you get me down?" This is natural.) Sanātha-jīvitam. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi. That is ānanda, that "I have no fear. I have got my father here. I have got my protector." Sanātha-jīvitam. That is a fact. Aur ek anath jeev, koi tumko keh . . . ki parishram karo aur maro. Ye sab anath hai. (And one orphan, someone tells him . . . that work hard and dies. All these are orphans.)

bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī—sakali 'aśānta
kṛṣṇa-bhakta—niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta
(CC Madhya 19.149)

Anath hone se asanti, kya hoga. Pita nahi hai hamara kya galti. Jo bolenge wo hum kar lenge. kya sharm, jo hukm karega kar lenge. Aur bhukti mukti apne account se kam karenge, apna plan banayenge. Jo karmi hai wo apna plan bana raha hai, itna rupaya kama lenge,to wo usi koshish me asanth aur mukti kami jo bhagvan ho jaye wo bhi asanth hai. Aur siddhi-yogi wo sab yog-siddhi chahte hain jaise pani ke upar chal jate hain, dikhane ke liye sona lana phir magic bante-banate . . . usme to karigari lagta hai aap ek jewellery dikha ke thug le to uske liye parishram karna padega. Aur bhakt ko kuch karna nahi hai, jo bhagvan bol denge usko kar denge. Uska apna account se kuch karna nahi, na to magic dikhana hai, nahi to swarg-lok me jana hai, nahi to bhagavan hona hai, na to jail me jana hai, na to aur kuch karna hai. Caitanya-caritamrita me hai 'bhukti-mukti siddhi kali sakali asat'. Ye jitna hai sab asat. wo krishna bhakti me kuch-na-kuch chahiye, bhagavan se ek hone hai na to uska magic dikhana hai, na to swarg-lok jana hai, usme kya hai. 'narayan para sakti na kutascan bibhyati' jo Narayan ke hukm ka palan karta hai usko kuch karna hi nahi hai.' . . . bhagavan bolta hai tum nark me jayega theek hai jayega, bhagavan to humko hukm karega. (If one is an orphan then no peace, what will happen, if father is not there what is my fault? What they say I will do, what shame, what they say I will do. And from the account of bhukti-mukti we will work, we will plan. Those who are fruitive workers, they are making plans, we will make so much money, they are busy in that effort. Those workers, materialists who try to become God are always disturbed. And the yogis are busy with their jugglery like walking on the water, on the fire, producing gold, in doing this . . . but skill is required in this. If they produce gold and show you that requires effort. But the devotees don't have to do anything. They don't have to show magic, they don't have to become God, they don't have to go to heaven, they don't have to go to the police station, nor do they have to do anything. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is stated "bhukti-mukti siddhi kali sakali asat". Whatever there is in this material world is false, illusion. In Kṛṣṇa devotion something is required, either merge into effulgence, or show magic, or go to heaven, what is there in this. "Narayana para sakti na kutascan bibhyati". One who follows the instructions of Narayana he does not have to do anything. If God says you must go to hell then accept, God gives orders.) Humko to bhagavan ka hukm manana hai. To aap agar nark me hukm manana to bhagvan ko jana padega. To hamare saath bhagavan hai to nark kya hai. jaise Narad Muni jate hain vaikunth me. To Narad prachar karne ko gaya to nark me thode hi gaya. (We have to just follow God's orders. So if you have to go to hell to obey His orders then He will be there and if He is there then it is not hell. Just like how Narada Muni goes to the heavenly planet. He does not go to hell to preach.) Jaya. (end)