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760620 - Lecture BG 09.03 - Toronto

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760620BG-TORONTO - June 20, 1976 - 60.57 Minutes

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Chant. Go on.

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
(BG 9.3)

Translation: (02:15) "Those who are not faithful on the path of devotional service cannot attain Me, O conqueror of foes, but return to birth and death in this material world."


aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā
dharmasyāsya parantapa
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
(BG 9.3)

Kṛṣṇa, instructing that there are two pathways. One is go back to home, back to Godhead, and other path is remain in this material world, which is full of miseries, especially birth, death, old age and disease. Two paths. Actually, we living entities, we are not subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. We are eternal part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and we are part and parcel of Him, just like father is there and he may have many children. So every child is the part and parcel of the father. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, God, we all living entities, we are sons, or part and parcel of God. Qualitatively we are one. Just like a small particle of gold is also gold. It is not a different thing. But one is small particle and one is big lump. But qualitatively, both of them are gold. So we are small particle of Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is vibhu, the great, God is great, and we are small particle.

Somehow or other we have fallen in this material world. There are many causes, but as we are in this material world, it is to be taken that somehow or other we have come here. Light, the sparks of fire . . . there is fire, and there are sparks. Everyone has got this experience. So the sparks are coming and dancing within the fire. It is also brilliant and it is also fire. If a small spark of fire falls on your cloth, immediately it will burn. It will immediately make a black spot. We have got this experience. Because although it is small, but it is fire; therefore it burns. Similarly, we are a small particle, part and parcel of God. Just like the spark, it falls down from the fire. There may be three conditions: the spark may fall down on the ground, the spark may fall down on the water and the spark may fall down on some dry grass. So if the spark falls down on the dry grass, then it may, again, makes another fire. And if the spark falls down on the water, then it is completely finished. And if it falls down on the ground, then it may continue as fire for some time, then it becomes extinguished. Anyway, in these three conditions.

So when we fall down in this material world . . . the material world is of three modes of material nature: goodness, passion and ignorance. So if we acquire the quality of goodness, there is chance of enlightenment, knowledge, so that again fire can be generated. But if we fall down on the water, practically it is finished. Ignorance. So sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. So in our fallen condition, mostly the rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa is very prominent, in our fallen condition, in this material condition. So symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa means material desires and greediness. And sattva-guṇa means enlightenment. If we cultivate the sattva-guṇa quality, just means if we cultivate the brahminical qualification, that is the platform of sattva-guṇa.

So that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). If we cultivate this kind of life—to be truthful, to be peaceful, to be tolerant, to be men of wisdom, knowledge, faith in God and the śāstras, in this way there are nine to twelve qualities. If we acquire that qualities, then we become brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means there is chance of understanding Brahman. Brahma jānāti iti brāhmaṇa. And this human life is meant for inquiring about Brahman. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the first verse, aphorism, of the Vedānta-sūtra. So the whole Vedic literature, in a gist form, is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And it is being explained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. So it is very important book, spoken by God Himself. And another system of religion . . . sometimes the representative of God is speaking, the servant of God speaking. They are also the same, but according to time and circumstances they are modified. But here in this Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, is speaking.

So you are coming, I mean to say, the Indians who are present here, from a country where Kṛṣṇa appeared. It is a great fortune for you that you have taken your birth in India. It is not ordinary fortune. So why? To take Indian birth, to take birth in India, automatically they are advanced in spiritual knowledge. Still, so much fallen condition of India, still, you go to a village, they will very easily understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, without any advanced education, because by birthright they have got the knowledge. In Vṛndāvana, when we walk on the street, the ṭhelā-walla, the cartsmen, the milkmen carrying milk, immediately they'll offer namaskāra, "Swāmījī." The other day—(to devotee) I think you were present—we were walking. So we went, entered one field, just for walking. So the villagers, the cultivators, they came to congratulate us, to receive us: "Swāmījī, it is our great fortune that you have come to our field." But in this country if I would have entered in another place, perhaps would have brought charge of trespass or might shot down. (laughter) So that is the different system, that by birthright they are Kṛṣṇa conscious.

If we speak something about Kṛṣṇa and Rāma . . . generally, in the villages, the Rāmāyaṇa or Mahābhārata, they are recited by the paṇḍitas, and still thousands and thousands of men come to hear about Rāmāyaṇa and Mahābhārata. We have practical experience in India. We held several Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals in Calcutta, Bombay and Hyderabad, Madras. Many thousands people come. Twenty thousand, thirty thousand people, they come, still. So my request is that you are here in foreign country, you don't forget your heritage. That is my request. Don't be bara-sāhīb. Remain as Indian with Indian culture, and here is the temple of Kṛṣṇa; we are distributing this Kṛṣṇa culture all over the world. So don't miss this opportunity, but you take advantage of it. That is the duty of every Indian. That is the mission of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. His mission is, especially to the Indians He says,

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Para-upakāra, just to do something good for others, for upakāra. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says anyone who has taken birth in India, he should, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), anyone who has taken birth in India, for every one of them, it is the duty. Janma sārthaka kari': first of all make your life successful, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra, then you begin the welfare activities for all others. The idea is that India is enriched with Vedic knowledge, and those who are born in India, they should take advantage of this facility, especially those who are in the higher, topmost ranks, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas. Especially the brāhmaṇas. Take this education perfectly well, make your life perfect, and distribute the knowledge all over the world. This is your duty. That is the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He wanted . . .

Kṛṣṇa preached this Bhagavad-gītā, five thousand years ago, but it was not broadly preached. It was spoken on the battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Arjuna knew it and some of his other friends. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is also Kṛṣṇa. He appeared as a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. And He distributed this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and He wanted that every Indian should seriously take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, make his life perfect, and distribute the knowledge. This is India's duty. So you have got one opportunity, you Indian people, that you take this advantage of distributing Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is good for you and for everyone who takes this knowledge very adherently.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says . . . this is the Ninth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, where He is speaking plainly about bhāgavata-bhakti. And this knowledge is described as rāja-guhyam, most confidential knowledge, here,

rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyaṁ
pavitram idam uttamam
pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyaṁ
susukhaṁ kartum avyayam
(BG 9.2)

This is the beginning of this chapter. Rāja-vidyā, the king of education. Rāja-vidyā rāja-guhyam. And very confidential. It is not understood by any ordinary man, because it is very confidential. You go anywhere. Suppose you go to a bank. A few persons in the bank, like the manager or the cashier or the accountant, they know everything confidential. Not the clerks or the customers—no. So this is . . . also Kṛṣṇa concludes Bhagavad-gītā with these words, guhya guhyatamam. This knowledge is very confidential. This means when one thing is very confidential, means it is very, very important. So Kṛṣṇa says therefore that aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ (BG 9.3). "This is so nice confidential. And I am speaking personally to enlighten the people in general." Not general, but people like Arjuna. Arjuna was not an ordinary person. He was born in royal family, and he was so exalted that he could speak with Kṛṣṇa face to face. He's not an ordinary person. So this confidential knowledge is not for ordinary person, but it is so easily, as it is said, susukhaṁ kartum avyayam. It is so easy to perform that everyone can do it.

Just like what we are doing here in this temple? These boys, these American and Canadian boy, what they are doing? It's very easy. What is that? Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing and eating prasāda. What is the difficulty? To chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or in ecstasy dance nicely, and dancing, dancing, when you become hungry and tired, take nice prasādam. That's all. What is the difficulty? By this process they are becoming devotee. There is no need of discussing higher philosophy or becoming mystic or magician or juggler or bluffer or cheater—nothing. Simply accept this simple process: you come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, and automatically you'll be ecstatic. Because this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra is not ordinary sound. It is spiritual sound. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung, golokera prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana. This sound, just like you receive sound from distant place, in radio, similarly, this sound is not produced in this material world. It is brought from the spiritual world. Golokera prema-dhana. There in the spiritual world there are eternal liberated devotees. They are so much ecstatically enjoying simply by chanting and dancing, the descriptions are there, that there is no sex life.

Just imagine. Here in this material world there is sex life. That is considered to be the highest pleasure. But the spiritual world means there is no sex life. Although there are very beautiful women, very beautiful men, with four hands. The men are with four hands there and very attractive. All of them are young; they never become old. Because in the spiritual world there is no birth, death, old age and disease. That is spiritual world. So there is no . . . old age is due to this body. Otherwise, spirit soul is everlastingly young. You can think over yourself. Just like I am now old man. So sometime I think that in my childhood, when I was born, I was jumping and dancing. Now I cannot do that, because of this old body.

So we are hampered on account of this material body. Encagement. So there are two ways, as I have already explained, that if you like you can become free from this bondage of material body. If you like. And if you don't like, you can continue your material way of life, changing different material body. Changing different material body is described here: mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Mṛtyu. Because with any body, material body, either cat's body, a dog's body or human being's body or demigod's body or even Brahmā's body, you have to die. There is no escape. Therefore it is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. And the, another path is, that . . . aprāpya mām. This mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani means you don't get Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says aprāpya, "not getting mām, Me." Two alternatives. Either you get Kṛṣṇa and go back to home, back to Godhead, this is one path. And the other path that you remain in this material world and repeatedly get a body and die again, get again another body. This is going on: repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.

So Kṛṣṇa is, because He is our supreme father, supreme friend . . . suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Kṛṣṇa says,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

For our happiness we require cooperation of some friend. That is our practical experience. But if we make Kṛṣṇa as our supreme friend . . . He is supreme friend. He's so supreme friend that . . . you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, everything is explained. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Sarva-bhūtānām. Of all living entities, within the core of the heart Kṛṣṇa is sitting there, along with the living entity. The living entity is also within the heart, and the supreme living entity, Kṛṣṇa, is also sitting by him.

This is confirmed in the Upaniṣad, that two birds are sitting on one tree. One bird is eating the fruit and another bird is simply observing. So the observing bird is Kṛṣṇa, and the eating bird is the living entity. Two birds. In another place also Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). The question of the kṣetra-jña, the owner of the body, and the body, in this chapter, in the Thirteenth Chapter, it is discussed. So in that chapter Kṛṣṇa says that "I am also one of the owner of the body, but the difference of this singular individual body and Myself is this, that the individual soul knows about his own body. But so far I am concerned, I am present in everyone's body, and I know everything of everyone's body." Just like you are a spirit soul, I am a spirit soul within this body. You know the pleasure and pains of your body; I know the pleasure and pains of my body. But Kṛṣṇa, He knows the pleasure and pains of your body and pleasure and pains of my body and everyone's body. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is Paramātmā. Jīvātmā and Paramātmā.

So all these facts have been very widely described and discussed. So we should be very careful to accept the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If we do not accept, then Kṛṣṇa says aśraddadhānāḥ. One is not interested in this type of occupational duty . . . dharma means occupational duty. So dharmasyāsya parantapa. Asya dharmasya. What is this dharma? In the end of Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is dharma. This is real dharma. And anything except this is bogus, cheating. This is real . . . Kṛṣṇa came, He said that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Hmm?

Devotee: Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya.

Prabhupāda: Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya, to reestablish the religious system. Yuge yuge sambhavāmi, "I come." He comes. So . . . or He sends His representative, His son or His devotee, His servant. In this way, Kṛṣṇa is trying to enlighten the whole human society. So we should take advantage of it. If you don't take advantage of it, aśraddadhānāḥ, no faith, no interest . . . aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ, the human being. This is a chance of human form of life to accept the system which is offered by God Himself. That is our duty. But if one is not interested, then the result is that aprāpya mām: "He cannot get Me." Aprāpya mām. So if we don't get Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong there? Very, very wrong. That Kṛṣṇa says, nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3): then he remains in the cycle of birth and death. That is not very pleasing job. We are making material efforts to make nice road, nice cars, nice skyscraper building, nice other facilities of life. But why I am doing this? This is practical. If I am called by death, how we are not very happy: "Oh, I am attempting to build this and now I am dying." This is very painful. Sometimes at the time of death, they cry, that "I could not finish my business."

So that is the way of nature, that you may try to become very happy in this material world; nature will kick you out, will not allow you to stay here. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This world is duḥkhālayam. You make so many imagination, try to fulfill it, that's a very troublesome job. To get money and to make material arrangement, that is not very easy. After you've undergone severe hardship, then you can get some money and build big, big buildings or purchase car. So before possessing big, big buildings and cars you had to work so hard. And to keep them intact, that is also very difficult. So, and again there is no guarantee that you shall be able to enjoy it. Today you may be proprietor of a big house, big motorcar, but after death you don't know; you have to accept a body, and it may be you become a cockroach in the car or in the house. That is not in your hands. That is in the prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). That will be considered. If you have got attachment for the car and you are dying, then you have done work in such a way that you have no right to possess a car any more. You have to accept a cockroach body. Then you become a—because you have got attachment—in the same car you become a cockroach. This nature's law we do not know.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

The rascals, they do not know how prakṛti, nature is working, and we are completely under the control of material nature. So after death we have to accept one body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. One has to accept. Just like we have given up our childhood body and we accepted another body, boyhood body or youth-hood body or old-aged body. Similarly, after giving up this body, old-aged body, I have to accept another body. That will be created by nature according to your karma. So that is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. Then you begin another chapter. Even you become a demigod or a dog or a cockroach or human being, from the date of your birth you begin another chapter. Again duḥkhālayam, to grow up, to change body, to adjust things according to the atmosphere.

So this is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. If we want to save this botheration, then hear what Kṛṣṇa says. Then your life will be successful. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's words, which are very plainly explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, then you have to remain in this mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. It is very plain truth. There is no doubt about it, that . . . you may be very proud of your strong body, your social condition or political condition, but after death it is not under your control. It is under the control of the material nature. So don't be falsely proud, bewildered. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Don't be foolish person by false egotism, that "I am free. I can do whatever I like." Then you'll suffer and remain in this path of repetition of birth and death. And there are 8,400,000 species of life. We have to go through this process, we fall down.

So this human form of life is obtained, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births, evolutional process we have got it. Now it is the time to understand our position. What is that position? The position is that we are eternal part and parcel of God.

mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ
jīva-loke sanātanaḥ
manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
(BG 15.7)

"These living entities," Kṛṣṇa says, "they are My part and parcel. But foolish rascals, they're creating concoction, mental speculation, to become happy." Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. And according to their mentality they are getting a different type of body, indriyāṇi. Indriyāṇi, the . . . as I was explaining in one morning, the pig has got also tongue—that is indriya, sense—and I have got also tongue. But his tongue will like to eat stool; we won't like. Because the different body, the tongue is also tasteful in different way. So indriyāṇi. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. First of all with subtle mind we create a different type of indriya. If we live like dogs and hogs, then that mentality will give me similar senses, the body of a dog and hog, and we change our taste according to dog and hog. Similarly, we can change our taste according to the body of demigods. But the subject matter of tasting or enjoyment is the same: eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That will continue. But the quality of eating may be different. Not the quality, but the form may be different.

So in this way things are going on. They are described in this Bhagavad-gītā very widely and expressively. So every human being is expected to receive this knowledge directly from Kṛṣṇa. Don't interpret wrong way according to your whims. Take it as it is and be benefited. If you don't take it, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ (BG 9.3). Those who have no interest to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, the result is mām aprāpya. Aprāpya mām. He never approaches God. He remains in this material world of repetition of birth and death. That is not a very good job.

So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to enlighten people so that they can accept these principles of Bhagavad-gītā. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is para-upakāra. And He advises everyone, especially Indian, to become guru. He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128): "Every one of you, you become a guru and try to deliver the persons where you are living." "So how can I become guru?" "Yes, it is very easy." "What is that?" Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), then you become guru. You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you become guru. To become guru is not . . . but if you want to be a bluffer, cheater, then you can talk all nonsense. But if you actually talk only Kṛṣṇa's words, then you become a guru. It is not very difficult.

Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), four things only. And mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ: "By doing these four things, without any doubt, you come back to Me." And what are those four things? Man-manā bhava: "Always think of Me." That is very difficult job? You are seeing . . . (break) So man-manāḥ. And then you become bhakta. Unless you are bhakta, you cannot continue to think of Kṛṣṇa. Man-manā bhava mad . . . mad-yājī, "Worship Me." So here is Kṛṣṇa, accepting everyone's worship. And what is the means of worship? Very simple. If you can offer very valuable things, that is all right. But if you think that you are poor man, you cannot supply any valuable things, Kṛṣṇa says, "Never mind." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26): "Simply little flower, little fruit, if you offer Me with devotion, I accept." So there is no difficulty.

Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). These four things. Very, very easy to do it. It is universal. There is no restriction. It is not that "I am not a brāhmaṇa. I am not an Indian. I am not a Sanskrit scholar. I cannot go to the temple." No, that is not. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Never mind whether he is Indian, brāhmaṇa or this or that. Even if he's born in the lowest, lowest grade of family, pāpa-yoni. They are kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ (SB 2.4.18), there are so many. They're pāpa-yoni, almost animal. Śudhyanti: they also become purified and comes to Kṛṣṇa. It is so wide, universal, easy, and especially you are Indian, why you should not take advantage of this facility? You take it and be happy. That is my request.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya!

Guest: Swāmījī, is there some way . . . (indistinct) . . . duty of the student to bring to the knowledge . . . (indistinct) . . . guru from his shortcomings?

Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to know who is guru. If you accept one rascal as guru, how you can be helped? First thing is who is guru. That I have already explained. Guru is he who repeats the words of Kṛṣṇa. He is guru. Otherwise he's a rascal. This is the test. Kṛṣṇa says that,

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

So tattva-darśī, one who has seen the truth, you have to accept him as guru. Tattva-darśī. Darśī means who has practical experience. Take, for example, just like Arjuna. Arjuna is directly receiving the knowledge from Kṛṣṇa. He's guru. What he said, we accept that. But if you accept somebody who wants to kill Kṛṣṇa and become himself Kṛṣṇa, he's a rascal. He's not guru. Because his policy is to accept the place of Kṛṣṇa, not to serve Him. That is māyā. And Kṛṣṇa has said very freely that,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

A person who is imbibed with asuric tendency . . . asuric tendency means to refute the Supreme Personality of Godhead. All the asuras . . . just like Rāvaṇa. Rāvaṇa is described as rākṣasa, asura. What was his fault? His fault was that he did not care for Rāma. "What is this Rāma? Kidnap his wife, bring him (her), I shall enjoy." This is rākṣasa. So he could not enjoy Sītā, but the result was, with his whole family, state, and himself, everything was ruined. This is asura. So those who are āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, followers of Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa, they do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

So our simple method is to see whether somebody is speaking about Kṛṣṇa or what Kṛṣṇa has said. If he does not do so, then immediately accept him āsuri bhāvam āśritāḥ, a rākṣasa. How you can accept him as guru, a rākṣasa? That is your mistake. How can you accept a person as guru who has imbibed with rākṣasa-. . . (indistinct) . . . so then what is their position? Duṣkṛtinaḥ, very sinful. Mūḍhaḥ, rascal, ass. Narādhamaḥ, lowest of the mankind. "No, he's so educated." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānaḥ. His so-called education has no value, because māyā has taken away the essence of . . . because education means . . . veda means knowledge. So the Vedas are there for education. So vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Ultimately Vedānta, Vedānta means the ultimate knowledge, the end of knowledge. The end of knowledge is to know Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. So after studying Vedas, if he does not understand Kṛṣṇa, then it is to be understood, māyayāpahṛta-jñānaḥ: his knowledge has been taken away by māyā. So simple thing is that Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more better guru than Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who repeats the words of Kṛṣṇa, teach others, he is guru. Otherwise he's a rascal. Yes?

Indian Guest: (indistinct question regarding Mahābhārata and Bhagavad-gītā)

Prabhupāda: Why do you ask this question? That means you have no faith.

Indian Guest: I have faith. I don't have knowledge.

Prabhupāda: You read this, then you'll get the knowledge.

Indian Guest: I would like to know about what time . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Time, it may be any time, but the knowledge is eternal. Just like Kṛṣṇa spoke five thousand years ago to Arjuna and some forty millions of years ago to the sun god. So time is different. Once He spoke forty millions of . . . imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam. (aside) Find out this verse:

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
(BG 4.1)

Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). These things are there, that Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "This philosophy, yoga, the yoga system, bhakti-yoga, I spoke to Vivasvān, the sun god." So if you take, take calculation . . . because it is said there: vivasvān manave prāha. If you take calculation of Manu, then you can calculate the age of Manus seventy-two cycle of four ages. Four ages means . . . one age means forty-three lakhs of years, multiply it by seventy-two. That becomes the duration of life of one Manu. So it is said that the sun god said to Manu. So this is the age of Vaivasvata Manu. So you can understand when it was spoken. So we have calculated, it is about forty millions of years ago he spoke this. And Kṛṣṇa says, sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ (BG 4.3). Read that.


sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya
yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ
bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti
rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam
(BG 4.3)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa said, "The same system I am speaking to you," purātanaḥ, "because you are My bhakta." So either you hear it forty millions of years ago or five thousand years ago or today from us, the subject matter is the same. Why do you make difference of the time? There is no difference of time. The subject, the purātanaḥ, everything is the same old. So even it is spoken in different time, the subject matter remains the same. There is no change. Just like millions and millions of years ago there was sun. And what is the sun? Heat and light. And today also there is the sun. What is the sun? Heat and light. So there is no difference. There is no consideration of age. The subject matter is the same.

Guest (2): I've read in your books the expression "eternal nature of the soul." I don't know if whether this means . . . if this means the . . . (indistinct) . . . conditional state.

Prabhupāda: Yes, eternally means that this creation, the material creation, it takes place at a certain date and it continues for certain millions and trillions of years, and again it becomes annihilated, dissolved. There is no creation for . . . bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). And again millions of years passes, and again there is creation. So one who does not take advantage of this creation, manifestation, especially in the human form of life, as I was discussing, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani, then he remains in the path of birth and death in this creation, and because he does not deliver himself, then next creation and next creation. So unless he takes to it, it is eternally going on. If he does not take advantage of this opportunity, then he remains in the cycle of birth and, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. And the mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani continues in this creation, next creation, and before that it is going on.

Devotee: Another question?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Thank you.

Devotees: Jaya! Gurudev!

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (end)