760423 - Lecture BG 09.04 - Melbourne

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760423BG-MELBOURNE - April 23, 1976 - 46.28 Minutes



Prabhupāda: (leads devotees in chanting)

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
(BG 9.4)

(01:20)

So God... Sometimes some foolish question is there, "Can you show me God?" The answer God is giving, that mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "I am everywhere. If you have eyes to see, you can see Me." So actually God is everywhere; otherwise how He is God? God means the great. But you do not know how great He is. We simply say, "God is great," but we have no idea how God is great. That is explained in the Vedic literature, that He is everywhere. God is everywhere.

aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham
eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim
(BS 5.35).

There are... Material world means there are innumerable universes. Just like you cannot count the stars and planets. You are... Every day you are seeing, at least at night you see, but can you count it? No, that is not possible. So this is only one universe, the universe in which our planet, this earthly planet, is situated. It is teeny planet. Out of many millions of planets this is one of. So we cannot even calculate this one planet in which portion, which direction, which country is there, how many population, what is there. We have no calculation. This is God's creation. Anything you take... You cannot count even your hair. You claim, "This is my hair." Can you count it? No. That is God's creation. Everywhere God is present, and everything is innumerable, beyond our counting capacity.

In this way God is situated. Antar bahiḥ (SB 1.8.18). He is situated outside; He is situated inside also. Kṛṣṇa says... This is quite reasonable; otherwise how He is God? Just like I am here, you are here, but you are not in your apartment. You are absent from your apartment. But God, God means He is in His apartment and He is everywhere. That is God. The rascals, they claim that "I am God." What kind of God you are? Are you everywhere spread? So you should not accept such cheap God. God's description is there in the śāstra: eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭim (BS 5.35). One part, one portion, is Paramātmā, the Supersoul. In His Supersoul feature He is present in innumerable universes. Eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means the universe. It is just like an egg. They are aṇḍa. Aṇḍa means egg. The form is like egg. So there are millions. So to maintain the millions and millions of universes by His one portion, Paramātmā, He is spread. He is called Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. It is a great science. God expands Himself in so many ways, and for the material world He is expanded as puruṣāvatāra: Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. He's expanding like that. Causal Ocean.

The Causal Ocean, He is lying there, sleeping within the ocean, and from His breathing the universes are coming out. This is God. Because He is in a sleeping condition, that is expansion of God. That is not original God—original God is Kṛṣṇa—but He can expand Himself. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca (BS 5.33). That is God. Just have some idea what is God.

So as Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, He is sleeping within the ocean, and as soon as there is question of sleeping, there is breathing also. The bubbles, the bubbles are expanding as universe. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (BS 5.48). So breathing means exhaling, inhaling. So when the breathing, air is coming out, innumerable universes are coming into forms, and when He is inhaling, then all of them becomes annihilated. This is material world. Material world means it comes into existence at a certain date, it remains for some time, it gives so many by-products, and it expands and then dwindles, then finish. This is material..., everything. Your body is like that, my body is like that. The whole universe is like that.

So here it is explained, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. This is God's impersonal expansion. When we cannot understand God, then we come first to the impersonal feature, everywhere, pantheism, which is known as, in philosophical terms, pantheism. There are different, I mean to say, ideas, and philosophical proposition. So this mayā tatam idam. But the pantheists, because the materialist think of limited... (coughs) They think that "God is everywhere; therefore there is no personal God." No, that is foolish, foolishness. He is everywhere, it is explained here. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "By Me..." Mayā means "by Me." "By Me, or by My energy, I am expanded everywhere." Mayā, this word, it is causative. Causative means I have caused.

The example is... If you want to understand, the example is very simple. Just like as soon as the sun is risen, immediately the sunshine is expanded. The other day, while coming here, we saw how within a second the sun arose from the sea water. Not from the sea... It looks like that. Immediately, within a second, the whole world became illuminated. Immediately, within a second. So the..., what is this illumination? It is the expansion of the sunshine. But because the expansion is there it does not mean the sun globe is finished. The sun globe is there, and within the sun globe the sun-god is there, or the predominating personality of the sun globe is there. His name is also known to us. His name is Vivasvān. Just like in America the President's name is Ford. Those who are intelligent person, he knows, "Oh, you're President." Similarly, every planet there is a president, there is chief person, and the name are recorded in the Vedic literature. And in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that Kṛṣṇa sometimes in forty millions of years ago—we calculated, forty or four hundred—some millions of years, He met the sun-god and He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1).

So we have to take information from the right source. Then we are awareness of everything. How God is expanded everywhere, you can take this example. The sun is away from us, according to the scientists' calculation, 93,000,000 miles away. And immediately, within a second, his sunshine is expanded all over the universe. Immediately. At least 93,000,000's of miles. Within a second. So if it is possible by an ordinary material thing, Kṛṣṇa, God, is full spiritual; how much spiritually powerful He is, that He can expand Himself all over the universes? This is called thoughtful consideration.

So Kṛṣṇa... When Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, "I am expanded everywhere," where is the difficulty to understand? There is no difficulty—if we are sane person. If we can see that "In one universe there is one sun, and the sun is so powerful, it is a material thing. And there are innumerable universes and there are innumerable suns. One who has created these suns, how much powerful He is." This is the calculation, common sense. If one sun, which is material, if it is so powerful that for millions and millions of years it is giving its energy, heat and light—still, it is so bright and powerful and temperature is so high—how much powerful temperature is of God, you can just imagine.

So when He said, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam, it is not a false pride. It is fact. Simply we must have brain to understand. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Every particle, every atom, there is presence of God. That is stated in the śāstra. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (BS 5.35). Paramāṇu means the atom. God is within the atom. So God is within you also. God is outside; God is within. Outside, as we see these five elements. What are these five elements? The same thing: expansion of God's energy. Just like we practically see scientifically, the sunshine is the cause of this universe. Within the sunshine all the planets have grown, and in each and every planet, due to the sunshine the vegetables are growing, there are leaves. When there is no sunshine the leaf falls down. As soon as the sunshine is there, the colorful fruits and flowers and leaves come out. Everything is due to the sunshine.

Similarly, the supreme sun is Kṛṣṇa. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (BS 5.40). He has got... Just like the sun has shining, similarly—try to understand—God has got His effulgence, bodily shining. That is called brahma-jyoti. When the brahma-jyoti is there, innumerable universes are generated. Therefore He is cause of all creation. It doesn't require to manufacture each and every universe. He is so powerful that in His effulgence, in His shining, innumerable universes are created. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (BS 5.40). In each universe there are many millions and millions of stars and planets. These are the description in the Vedic literature.

So we have to learn. You cannot by your teeny effort with limited power, limited sense, I mean to say, perception, you cannot speculate. You have to understand from authoritative statements. That is called Veda. Vedas means knowledge which is perfect knowledge, and if you study Vedas, then you get perfect knowledge of everything. And the cream of the Vedic knowledge is here in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if you read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, then you get all the knowledge very perfectly. Here it is said, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. And that expansion, that impersonal expansion, avyakta, not manifested. You cannot see God in person in this expansion. Therefore sometimes we foolishly say that "Can you show me God?" God is there. You have to make your eyes to see. Just like God is here in the temple, but somebody is thinking that "This is not God. This is a statue or an idol. They are worshiping idol." Supposing it is idol, but if God is everywhere, why He is not in the idol? What is the argument? If God is everywhere, then why He is not idol? God has the power. And actually this is not idol; this is God's energy. The same example: the sunshine is everywhere, so originally sunshine is the cause of everything. Similarly, God's effulgence is the cause of material things also.

That is explained in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). The five elements... (break) ...have been summarized into three: external energy, internal energy and marginal energy. The external energy is this material expansion, manifestation. Similarly, there is internal energy, the spiritual world manifestation. And in between them there is another energy, called marginal energy, taṭastha, that we are, we living entities. We are His marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and we are also permanent, jīva-bhūta. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to transfer oneself from this external energy to the internal energy. That is the purpose of all Vedic literature. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). To understand God and go back to home, back to Godhead, that is perfection of life. So here we are in the God's energy. There is no doubt. Mayā tatam, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni (BG 9.4). Everything. Bhūtāni means all living entities, anything which has grown. The trees, the plants, the hills, the ocean, the sky—everything is resting in God's energy. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ. But it is not that... The pantheists, they think that "If God has expanded in everything, then whatever I worship, that is God's worship." No. That is the... Kṛṣṇa said, "No, that you cannot take."

The same example: the sunshine is not different from the sun, and because the sunshine has entered within your room it does not mean the sun has entered in your room. If you try to understand, then you'll understand that God is everywhere; still, He is not everywhere. This is His inconceivable power. Therefore, if we want to worship God, then we have to worship His form, His name—name, form, quality, pastime. Then we shall realize that God is person, Supreme Being, and He has got all the propensities as we have got. Because we are part and parcel of God, we can study God's personality from our personality. Just like we can study the father by the symptoms of the son—this is crude example—similarly, whatever propensities we have got, wherefrom the propensity is coming? It is coming from God.

Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1): "Everything is emanating from God." The original source of everything is God. So when we study ourself minutely, that "What is our position?" Or by studying ourself we can study the nature of God. The difference is only that He is huge, the great; we are small particle. But the qualities are the same. You take a drop of the ocean water, the chemical composition is the same, the taste is the same. So that is the difference between a living entity and God. We are a small sample of God, but God is great. If we understand this philosophy, then it is not difficult to understand what is God, and then we can establish our original relationship. And if we act accordingly, then our life is successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (break)

Gurukṛpā: If somebody would like to ask some question to Śrīla Prabhupāda, raise your hand. No questions? Everybody agrees?

Guest (1): Would you like to give your views on psychiatry?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to give your views on psychiatry? Psychiatry. Psychiatrist.

Prabhupāda: What is that? (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, when someone is having some kind of mental problem, the psychiatrist analyzes it from the medical viewpoint, sometimes from the psychological viewpoint.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Psychiatrist.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is an expansion of the energy known as mind. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These are subtle matter. So different division. God's creation is so wonderful that even if you take the atom, there are so many things. That is... Scientists are... So what to speak of mind, thinking, feeling, willing, and there are so many divisions. So what is your question about the psychiatrist? It is a material thing and very subtle, and there are so many divisions. So what is your question about it?

Guest (1): I just wanted your views on... Is, is your concept of...

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is, everything is resting on God. This is also resting on God.

Guest (1): Is it necessary to have a therapeutic system, some...?

Prabhupāda: No, everything... First of all we have to understand that everything is expansion of God's energy. So if you understand God, then the energies are automatically understood. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.1.3). This is the Vedic injunction. If you try to understand God, then His energies also will be understood by you. If you know the root, if you water on the root of the tree, then the tree, whole tree, becomes luxuriantly flourished. So our proposition is: you take the root, Kṛṣṇa, and you will understand everything properly from the root. If you want to understand the tree, whole tree, you try to understand it from the root, not from the top. So disease, any disease, if you understand the root cause of the disease you can give proper medicine and he's cured.

So psychiatrists, generally their patients are crazy fellows. (laughter) Generally they treat crazy fellows. It is not? No sane man goes to a psychiatrist. (laughter) Is it not a fact? (laughter) So all these crazy men sometimes makes the psychiatrist a crazy also. So more or less, everyone is crazy. That is the... It is not my layman's opinion; it is the opinion of a big medical surgeon. There was a case in the court, murder case. The murderer pleaded that "I became crazy, mad, at that time." That is generally. So the medical man was called to examine. He was great civil surgeon in Calcutta. So he gave his opinion in the court that "So far I have treated many patients, so my opinion is that everyone is more or less a madman. More or less. It is a question of degree." So our opinion is like that, that anyone who is not under the direct connection with God, he's a crazy man. He's a madman. Now you can treat.

So we are also psychiatrists. We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So because anyone who is in this material world—more or less crazy, madman. Because he doesn't care for God, therefore he's crazy. He is completely under the control of God, but still, he has the audacity to say, "No, I don't believe in God." Crazy man. So anyone who does not believe in God, he's a crazy fellow. You can treat him. Everyone is patient.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

This crazy fellow is fully under the control of material nature, and he's still thinking that he is independent. That is craziness. Everyone is thinking like that, so everyone is a patient of psychiatrist. How we can declare independence? There is no independence. We are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is knowledge.

Nobody wants to die, but nature says, "You must die." Where is your independence? Nobody wants to take birth, enter into the mother's womb, but you must enter. Nobody wants to become old man. Nature says, "You must become old man." Nobody wants disease. The nature says, "You must have disease." So where is your independence? But the crazy fellow says, "I am independent. I think like this." What is the value of your thinking? You may think in your favor, but the nature will not allow you. So everyone is crazy who is declaring independence. He's a crazy.

Then? Any question? Yes, this question is very nice. Anyone who does not believe in God, does not surrender to God, he's a crazy fellow, that's all.

Woman devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, to go back home one must receive the mercy of the spiritual master. Is there any particular activity in devotional service which is more favorable to this, and if so, how does one know which activity to perform?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gurukṛpā: She wants to know what's the best activity to perform to go back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: You are already performing Hare Kṛṣṇa chant, very easy thing. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). That is the best education: to hear about God, to chant about God, to think about God, to worship God. In this way there are nine processes recommended. You are following that, at least trying to follow. Then, when you are perfect, then you'll go. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). No more material body. You follow strictly the devotional process. There are nine different ways. But if you simply hear about God, then you also become perfect. Any one of them... You take nine of them, eight of them, seven of them, six of them, five of them—at least one you take, and you'll be perfect. One must take. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he took only one. He listened to Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Hearing. He became perfect. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, he simply chanted; he became perfect.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
sakhyam...
(SB 7.5.23)

Arjuna, he simply took Kṛṣṇa as a best friend; he became perfect. That is Bhagavad-gītā. He has accepted Kṛṣṇa as the best friend: "Kṛṣṇa, although I am talking with You as friend, but I know what You are. So I am perplexed. Kindly give me lesson." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7): "My dear Kṛṣṇa, I am surrendering unto You. I accept You as my spiritual master. Kindly teach me." So he became perfect by making Kṛṣṇa his friend.

So nine processes. Any process you take and do it perfectly, then you become perfect. So we are opening different centers all over the world. At least if they come and hear about Kṛṣṇa they'll become perfect, without doing anything, simply by hearing, hearing. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. It is very easy. It is not at all difficult. Where is the difficulty? God has given us ear, and if we simply hear, listen what Kṛṣṇa says, we become perfect.

Guest (3): What if you hear in your heart but don't act in your life.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What if you hear but don't act accordingly in your practical life?

Guest (3): You feel it in your heart...

Prabhupāda: No, hear means you do it in practical life. Otherwise what is the hearing? Then just like one stone, he has got ear. That is not atten... Hearing means it will react. That is hearing. The more you hear, it will react. Then you practically do it. But everything comes by hearing. So hearing is so important. Just like even in your ordinary education you go to the school, college, and hear from the professor. Hearing is so important. Then you become perfect; you take your degrees. Similarly, the science of God, you simply hear about it. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Then, gradually, it will purify. Hearing means purifying the dirty things within the heart. That is hearing. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Because it is spiritual, hearing has got a potency to purify you. This is not ordinary hearing. This is spiritual hearing, so it has got a potency. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Anyone who takes part in this process of hearing and chanting, he becomes pious, purified. Just like if you touch some way or other the fire, it will act, similarly, Kṛṣṇa is spiritual. You hear about Kṛṣṇa; then it will act. Then you'll be purified. So any other question?

Guest (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how can we understand why the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement seems to attract so many young boys and young girls in the Western world...

Prabhupāda: Tax? Tax?

Hari-śauri: Attracts.

Prabhupāda: Attracts, oh.

Guest (4): ...attracts so many young people and not so much the middle-aged and older people in the Western world.

Prabhupāda: Not only Western world—everywhere. Therefore they are called "old fools." (laughter) Because they require time to forget what they have learned. Young men, they are receptive. Therefore, for education, younger age is recommended. There is a history in... One father and one daughter, they both appeared for B.A. examination. The father failed and the daughter passed. Younger generation, they can receive very nicely. Older generation, it is little difficult. Therefore it is recommended by Prahlāda Mahārāja,

kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

He recommended, "My dear friends..." Prahlāda Mahārāja was five-years-old boy, and he was preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness in his classroom. When the teachers are out he would preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When friends would request, "My dear Prahlāda, just play. This is tiffin hour," so he said, "No, no, no, no. My dear friends, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Immediately. We are now young boys. This is the time to learn." Kaumāra. Kaumāra means between five to ten years. This is the time. Dharmān bhāgavatān iha. Why? Now durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "Don't think that your life is guaranteed. We can die at any moment. Better understand the science of God in this early age." This is Prahlāda Mahārāja's recommendation.

So this bhāgavata-dharma, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, should be learned from the very beginning. Then it will be solid. By nature's way, younger generation, they capture very nicely. Yes. This question was asked by many gentlemen to me, that "Why younger generation attracted?" Because they are receptive. This is the age. So don't waste time. From the very beginning of life, when we can talk, when we can walk, learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Life will be successful.

We are therefore opening so many gurukulas, to teach from the very beginning of life. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to offer respect to guru, to superior. These things are not taught. The Vedic system is first brahmacārī, then gṛhastha. That is compulsory: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, four divisions. First of all he must be trained up first-class brahmacārī, up to twenty-five years. And then, if he likes, he can enter into family life. That is also up to fifty years. Naturally a person, after being trained up as brahmacārī enters family life, he cannot stay in family life for all the days. Fifty years, when his sons are grown up, say twenty years, twenty-five years, then he can retire from family life. That is called vānaprastha. The wife can remain as assistant, not for any other purpose. Then, when he is fully prepared, the wife goes to the care of elderly children and the man takes sannyāsa.

But this culture is lost. Now, unless one is shot dead, he would not leave family life. (laughter) Even Mahatma Gandhi, he got independence and everything; still he would not leave. So he was shot dead. This is our position. All politicians, all big, big men, they are not going to retire. Stuck up. This is not civilization. When one is young, he can remain with family, wife, children, twenty-five to fifty years. That's all. No more. Give up. Then take vānaprastha. Train up yourself for becoming sannyāsī. Then take sannyāsa simply for understanding God. That is sannyāsa. You can take sannyāsa from the very beginning, but if it is not possible, at least at the fag end of your life everyone should take sannyāsa and completely devote in understanding the science of God. That is called sannyāsa.

This is Vedic system, varṇāśrama-dharma. Now it is foolishly going as Hindu dharma. What is the Hindu dharma? "Hindu" is not found even in the scriptures. This is a name given by the Muhammadans. Sindu. There is a river, Sindu. From Sindu it has come, "Hindu." Actually, the Vedic culture is varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas and four āśramas. That is real Vedic culture, how to create brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa—eight. This is called varṇāśrama-dharma.

varṇāśramācāravatā
puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān
viṣṇur ārādhyate pumsam
nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
(CC Madhya 8.58)

Actually human civilization begins when this institution of varṇāśrama is accepted. Otherwise it is animal civilization—eating, sleeping, mating and dancing, that's all. All right.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (kirtan) (end)