760204 - Morning Walk - Mayapur
Prabhupāda: . . .Then, in the morning, it rises reddish. So why it does not look reddish always if it is fixed? Huh?
Harikeśa: Well, the material scientists say it's because of the atmospheric condition. It refracts the light in such a way that it becomes reddish. That's what they say. Because it's thicker atmosphere. You have to look through more atmos . . .
Prabhupāda: Then how it comes so high? After few hours it goes so high.
Harikeśa: Well, there is less atmosphere to look through. Why it goes up there?
Prabhupāda: So that means move?
Harikeśa: No, no. Because we're moving this way. The earth is rotating.
Prabhupāda: You are moving, but why you say sometimes this position and sometimes that position?
Harikeśa: Because the earth also moves like this. It's going around the sun, and then every day it rotates once.
Harikeśa: It rotates on an axis like this. So therefore the sun seems to go around, but actually it's the earth that goes around.
Prabhupāda: Now, if you measure when this sun and when it comes meridian distance, so do you think the earth is moving so quickly? It is . . . According to their modern science, the earth is moving twenty-five thousand miles only.
Harikeśa: Throughout . . .
Prabhupāda: No, within twenty-four hours.
Harikeśa: That's around the sun.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Then is it possible . . .
Jagadīśa: Twenty-four-hour day, twenty-five thousand miles circumference.
Prabhupāda: So how earth has gone so quickly round that it is seen, the different position of the sun? This means sun is not fixed. Sun is moving. And in the Bhāgavata it is said that it is moving at the rate of sixteen thousand miles per second. I think I have calculated that. Sixteen thousand miles.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda? Does that mean that the sun is going around the earth?
Hṛdayānanda: Is the sun going around the earth?
Prabhupāda: Sun is going around the whole planetary system.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The scientists think the whole planetary system is going around the sun.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, earth is also moving?
Bhavānanda: Earth planet is also moving?
Prabhupāda: Along with all other stars. That you can see at night.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are all moving around the polestar.
Hṛdayānanda: So that means that the more we learn material education, just becoming more and more foolish.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Material education means mūḍha. This is also material education, the movement of the sun. But they are not perfect.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if the earth is moving so fast, why isn't everything blown off?
Bhavānanda: Why are we not blown off the surface of this planet? Now it's moving so fast. How are we able to remain here and not be blown off?
Prabhupāda: I do not follow.
Bhavānanda: The planet is moving . . .
Harikeśa: He's saying, "We're moving, so therefore the wind should blow everybody off—the speed."
Hṛdayānanda: Why is everything so peaceful if we're moving so fast?
Prabhupāda: Which is moving so fast?
Hṛdayānanda: Well, Bhavānanda said . . .
Bhavānanda: Planet, this planet is moving so fast, but it doesn't appear to be moving at all.
Prabhupāda: Suppose a small ant is on some big wheel, does it feel anything, movement? A big wheel and a small ant, what he will feel? This is called relativity. Law of relativity. Why you are thinking that relatively you are very big? That is your foolishness. You are nothing, insignificant. Therefore you are surprised when Kṛṣṇa appeared as Varāha-mūrti, to take the whole earth on His nose. Who will say it is mythology? You do not know how great Kṛṣṇa can become. Mahato mahīyān. Aṇu . . . What is that?
Hṛdayānanda: Aṇor aṇī . . .
Śāstrījī: Aṇor aṇīyān anusmared yaḥ . . . (indistinct) . . ..
Prabhupāda: Aṇor aṇīyān mahato mahīyāt (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.20) . . . So He is greater than the greatest. Yaśodāmāyī thought that "My child are eating earth? So show." She saw all the planetary system within His mouth. So she thought, "What is this? All right, don't do this." (laughs)
Hṛdayānanda: So to accept a spiritual master means that one has to learn everything again.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Hṛdayānanda: That to accept a spiritual master means that we have to learn everything over again. Practically everything we learned was incorrect.
Prabhupāda: It is correct to some extent, but . . . Just like you can see to some extent, but that does not mean you can see everything. You have got limited potency. This is called unlimited and limited. We are limited.
Harikeśa: Actually, I think it makes much more sense, because when the scientists say that the earth spins around this way very quickly, then his point is valid. Why we don't fall off or why we don't feel good?
Prabhupāda: It is not quickly. It is only . . .
Harikeśa: But when the Bhāgavata says the whole thing moves, then there is no friction.
Harikeśa: Therefore it is still. It's not rubbing against everything because everything is moving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like this earth also. According to them, it is going around the sun. But we don't feel anything. According to them. And according to . . . it is running at the rate of twenty-five thousand miles, and if you, in the aeroplane, it is going in six hundred miles per hour, and still there is so many jerking. That is your creation, teeny machine. And God's creation, it is moving. Even it is moving, you cannot understand. That is perfect creation. Pūrṇam. Pūrṇam. The word is pūrṇam idam, everything perfect. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Because God is all-perfect, whatever He has created, they are all-perfect; relatively, all-perfect. Just like this earth: it is all-perfect. Whatever you want, you inhabitants of this earth, they are all there. You want air, water, light? Everything is there. Pūrṇam idam. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya. So you are using so much water, so much light; still, it is perfect. Just like the cultivation: every year you are taking so much products. Still, again you can take. This is pūrṇam idam, perfectly done. That is God's creation. This body, you see. You have to capture something. You require some solid thing here. It is there. If it is . . . it was soft, only skin, then you could not catch this. How perfectly it is done. It is required here, not the whole finger. This is called perfect creation. The sensation of sex is in a particular position, not everywhere, because if that sensation were not there, then nobody would feel sex, and there would be no creation. This is called perfect creation. The same sensation could have been here, there. No. That particular sensation is there to induce him. Similarly, everything is going on. How to fix it? Every body is made . . . Every body is made according to the work it has to do. You see? The pig, it has to eat stool. His mouth is made in a different way. The tiger has to eat meat; his mouth is made differently. This is called perfect creation.
Hṛdayānanda: And also among human beings, different human bodies are made differently.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. According to . . . Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu (BG 13.22). So according to the guṇa he's infecting, the body is made. If you infect some disease, smallpox, then you must get the disease. There is no excuse.
Hṛdayānanda: So a devotee . . . It is said in Bhagavad-gītā that a devotee is above the modes of nature.
Hṛdayānanda: It is said in Bhagavad-gītā, sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). So when a devotee becomes very advanced, does that means that he should not feel a particular . . . an inclination to do a particular work but simply want to serve Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise how they can give up sex life? Unless he is liberated, how he can give up sex life?
Harikeśa: That's something which puzzles all the materialists.
Prabhupāda: Mater . . . They are rascals, mūḍhas. Their only title is mūḍha, ass. Viśvanātha Cakravartī has described the karmīs as mūḍhas. Karmīs are lowest grade of mūḍhas. And above them the jñānīs. And above them, muktas, liberated. And above them, bhakta. And above all bhaktas, kṛṣṇa-bhakta.
Prabhupāda: This is the graduation. So karmīs, they are all mūḍhas.
Bhavānanda: There are other kinds of bhaktas other than kṛṣṇa-bhaktas?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Nārāyaṇa-bhakta, viṣṇu-bhakta. They are all Kṛṣṇa, but above all of them is kṛṣṇa-bhakta.
Bhavānanda: Many people in India, they say they are śiva-bhaktas.
Prabhupāda: They are all in the material world, karmīs. Karma-kāṇḍa, ritualistic ceremonies. Prahlāda Mahārāja has described them. What is that very word used? And meaning is "one who cannot control their senses." Avijita-indriya. Ajitendriyāṇām. Ajita, "one who could not conquer the senses," they are called karmīs. Ajitendriyāṇām. So all these penances, silence, meditation, then studying the Vedic literature and so many things are there. Prahlāda Mahārāja, in one word he says, "They are meant for ajitendriyāṇām, one who could not conquer over the senses—for them." And for a devotee, one who is actually pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that a teeny devotee can claim that he has overcome the influence of this world. No. This is called paramahaṁsa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26). Not that because you have taken to devotional . . . you have become immediately. The process has begun immediately, curing process. But we should not think that we have become perfect. That is wrong. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam (BG 18.5). Therefore you must follow the regulative principles. As soon as you become a rascal—"Now I have become advanced. I don't require to chant sixteen rounds. I can do whatever I like"—then he has gone to hell. Upstart, immediately he becomes paramahaṁsa. He's a rascal. He was given the path of becoming paramahaṁsa. One is admitted in the school, he must learn, and one day he will become M.A. But simply by entering in the school, if he says, "I am M.A.," that is rascaldom. This is a chance. To become jitendriya is very difficult task. But it is easy if he immediately becomes a pure devotee. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūṇyam (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11): "Everything make zero, all desire, except Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is wanted. But that does not become very easily done. One has to try very rigidly; then he'll be paramahaṁsa. Therefore amongst the devotees, there are three grades: kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī and uttama-adhikārī. So if the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī thinks that "I have become uttama-adhikārī," then he's a rascal. He's a rascal. If he wants to imitate the uttama-adhikārī, then he's a rascal.
Hṛdayānanda: Is that cheating propensity?
Prabhupāda: Not cheating. Foolishness. It may not be cheating, but he does not know. Arcāyām eva haraye pūjāṁ yat śraddhayehate . . . (SB 11.2.47). What is that? Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu . . .
Hṛdayānanda: Bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. The beginning is arcā, arcana. And because he was given the chance of arcana, if he thinks that "I become paramahaṁsa," then he's a foolish. It will take time. The process is there. Therefore preaching is madhyama-adhikārī. One should take to preaching work gradually. When the preaching work . . . Preachers, they have got discrimination, "Here is abhakta; here is bhakta." But in the paramahaṁsa stage, uttama-adhikārī, he sees, "Everyone is devotee. I am not devotee." That is uttama-adhikārī. Just like Kavirāja Gosvāmī said, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205). Sanātana Gosvāmī said that "I am born in low-grade family. My work is low grade." (break) . . .issued that complaint? "I am the counterpart."
Śāstrījī: Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.
Prabhupāda: The laborers have not come yet?
Bhavānanda: It's still early, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .Bhagavad-gītā verse? Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca? What is the full śloka? Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca (BG 7.9). That "This flavor of the rose . . ."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Original fragrance of the earth"? Is that the verse?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Out of that, most fragrant flavor, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am directly that." So if you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, having this flavor, he'll understand, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca. This flavor is there all over this earth, but you cannot see it. That does not mean there is no God. But He is there.
Viśvakarmā: It would be easier for them if they didn't live in the cities, because the cities make it so hard for anybody to understand there is a God.
Prabhupāda: After all, understanding . . . Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually . . . Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound . . . hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent." That is the first-class mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam param avyayam (BG 7.25). Every . . . Dark, darkness. He keeps himself in darkness. This life was given to him by nature to become liberated by understanding God, but he does not take care of. He is making plan: "We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this." Therefore they are mūḍhas. That will not help him. He does not know that. And if he simply tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma . . . (BG 4.9). Everything is there. But he will do so many plans, and nothing will be successful. He'll avoid Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class mūḍha. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, the Vedānta philosophy's first instruction: "Now you inquire about God. This is the only chance. As cats and dogs you cannot do that. Now, atha, ataḥ. You have enjoyed your senses so much as cats, dogs, tigers, so on, so on. Now you devote to understand, inquiry." Athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's about five minutes to seven, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: We shall go? No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a little early still. You could walk out to the front gate today and see how they are painting.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. So let us go. (break) . . .says, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta-varān nibodhata. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo. Still he will sleep in this human form of life and remain an animal, cat and dog. A simple word, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo. This is Vedic instruction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata: "Get up. Be awakened. You have got this body. Try to understand God." That they will not do. They'll come to fight: "Oh, you are playing mṛdaṅga at four o'clock and disturbing my sleeping?" This is going on. "Let me go to the police. You are trying to awaken me from my sleeping? You are trying to make me intelligent? Let me remain fool. Why you are disturbing me?" Māyā's influence. Kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. Simply wasting of time. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over sleeping first, nidrā, then eating. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. What is this?
Bhavānanda: It says, (break) " . . .when not in use."
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's for the gate.
Prabhupāda: So why it is like that? People may fall down.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, it should be up there in the day. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .again mūḍha. (break)
Sudāmā: . . .speaking about how they are complaining that we are waking them up. A very interesting story . . . In Hawaii for one year every day this one man living next door to us every morning would call the police force at guru-pūjā. So many cars would come, three, four police cars. So finally, after one or two weeks' coming, they would come very happily, and they would take prasāda. So they came because he called—they had to follow his complaint—but they told me personally, "We are coming not to arrest you or complain. We like your activities. Please give us some prasādam."
Hṛdayānanda: Also in Caracas many, many police cars come to the temple for prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, I think your dhotī is pulling . . . (break)
Hṛdayānanda: . . .that the people against us were trying to prove that we're not actually a real religion. So the judge became very angry at the other lawyer and stood up on his bench. The judge stood up and said, "Are you trying to say that these people are not a bona fide religion?" And the lawyer said, "No, your honor. No." (laughter)
Hari-śauri: In Sydney they spent ten thousand dollars, the council, compiling a case against us. Every day they used to come and film us and take names. And we didn't contest the case but just carried on saṅkīrtana, and the judge threw them out of court. They spent ten thousand dollars—it was a big scandal—and lost the case. The judge said, "Why not let them go on the streets? They add a lot of color to the city." (break)
Hṛdayānanda: People are always asking about you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. (break) No, I shall go now. Is it direct flight? No.
Hṛdayānanda: It is very far away. Everyone is . . . Even the guests, everyone is always asking about Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was wondering whether—I was speaking with Sudāmā Mahārāja—whether it would be possible for him to come and be in the boat program with Sudāmā Mahārāja. (end)