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751017 - Morning Walk - Johannesburg

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

751017MW-JOHANNESBURG - October 17, 1975 - 26:47 Minutes

(in car)

Prabhupāda: . . .being a lover of God, nobody can smile, that's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Without being a lover of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahma-bhūtāḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Who can become a . . . Smiling means he is satisfied in every respect.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa is always smiling, isn't He?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Smeran bhangi-traya-paricitam. Kṛṣṇa is always smiling and standing in curved position. That is jubilant. (about microphone) Why so near?

Harikeśa: Because the car makes so much noise that if I don't, they'll never hear.

Prabhupāda: Smerāṁ bhaṅgī-traya-paricitāṁ sāci-vistīrṇa-dṛṣṭiṁ (CC Adi 5.224). (break) . . .shows that people are prosperous. They are not cheap buildings like America. Termite, always attacked by termite. They have no taste for good building. (break) And fuming? Fuming process?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fumigation.

Prabhupāda: Ah, fumigation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When the termites get into the wood they eat up the wood and they hide in nests underneath the house. So the way that they try to kill the termites is by gassing them. They cover their house with a tent, and then they gas, and it goes into the nests and kills all the termites. They are perfecting this art of killing. You said that in Calcutta in a very expensive cloth shop . . . Your father's brother used to have cloth shop?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That when there was rats and they would eat the cloth that he would simply put some prasādam in the room.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And the rats would come and take. They wouldn't eat the cloth.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like a man also. If he gets food, shelter, then he doesn't commit any criminal act. Man is also dangerous. Even if you give him food, shelter, he will do mischievous activities. That is man. But an animal will not do it. You can tame even a tiger by giving him food. He will never . . . If he sees that you are giving him food he'll never attack, the tiger also, feeling obliged.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's durācāra? Durācāra?

Prabhupāda: Ferocious, but still, when he is given food by somebody, he feels obliged.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: On one lecture tape you said that man is durācāra, very difficult to . . . When he's misbehaved?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

(break) (on walk)

. . .by chanting mantra and herb. But a crooked man cannot be controlled any way. Therefore he is more dangerous than the snake. Sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it that the man cannot be tamed and the unintelligent animal can be tamed?

Prabhupāda: Because man is more intelligent. He can misuse his independence and intelligence, whereas animal cannot do that; he is not so intelligent. He has . . . That is the defect of the modern civilization. They have been described as duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means he has got brain more intelligent than the animal, but the brain is being utilized for mischievous activities. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. Brain should be utilized for some benevolent work for the good of the living entities. But this brain, modern educated brain, is being misused for discovering something which is very dangerous to the human society. Therefore duṣkṛtina. And he is getting Nobel Prize because he has discovered this atomic weapon, which is so dangerous, and he is glorified, "Oh, you have done so nice scientific discovery." What is that discovery? "That you can kill . . . Instead of one man with gun, you can kill one thousand men. Therefore you must be offered Nobel Prize." This is man's appreciation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Better to walk this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are called mūḍhas. All rascals. Na mām duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). How you can understand that this man is mischievously meritorious? How you can understand? Duṣkṛtina means mischievously meritorious. This man is meritorious, but he is using his merit for mischievous activities. That is called duṣkṛtina. So how you can understand this man is mischievously meritorious? You can say, "How is that? A man is meritorious and at the same time he is mischievous?" There are so many organization, especially in Western country, big, big rogues' organization simply for cheating, simply for smuggling. They have got merit. Otherwise how they have organized such big, big organization? But what for? All mischievous activities, harassing government, harassing people. This merit is being used. There are many organizations in the Western country. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Many, many. All these realty business. Realty business, you know?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Realty. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent of them are mischievous. I have got experience. Seventy-five percent, they are simply mischievously planning—you have got five thousand or ten thousand dollar—to take it away, showing you that you are getting 200,000 worth of property. In this way they make implication, take your ten thousand dollar, and then finished. Many cases. Their only business is this. Big, big lawyer implicated. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina. Go to a lawyer, immediately you are implicated. You see, this man is condemned, Nixon, and he is to pay the lawyer's bill by working hard, by writing a book and selling the good will to some company. He has to pay the lawyer's bill. He has no money. The lawyers, doctors, as soon as they get some opportunity, immediately captures you and finish—bās—how to take away all your money. Because artificially they have enhanced the standard of living, they want money. So unless they do mischievous activity, by honest means they cannot get money.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's described in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā, that they earn money by illegal methods.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is it that in the modern day good people, they don't come into public office? Good people. In previous ages there were rājarṣis, great kings, very pious kings. Why is it that only rogues are aspiring today?

Prabhupāda: Because the democracy. You will not get vote. As soon as you become honest man in the public office, nobody will be obedient to you, and it will be impossible for him to execute any . . . You see? The bank manager in Delhi—he was my friend—that "I am afraid of this union. If I press them to do something, they will immediately topsy-turvy the whole management." The bank manager said. "So I am afraid of the workers' union," he told me. So therefore good men, they do not go to this political post because they know they will not be able to do anything good. He will be surrounded by all rogues. Nobody will execute his order.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the future in Kali-yuga looks very bleak.

Prabhupāda: Very, very black. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇ gacchanti giri-kānanam. People, general people, will be so much disgusted that they will be obliged to give up family and home and go to the forest, being disappointed: "Now I cannot manage. Let me go away."

Harikeśa: That's predestined.

Prabhupāda: Yes, predestined.

Harikeśa: But that can all change in a minute.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that can be changed only by . . . Therefore we are . . . "Go giri-kānanam, but take shelter of Kṛṣṇa." Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5): "Go, leave your, this so-called family, home, and go to the forest and take shelter of Kṛṣṇa." That is advised by Prahlāda Mahārāja. "That is the best thing in life. If you want to be free from anxiety, give up this so-called family life. Go to the forest and take shelter of Lord Kṛṣṇa." That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's advice. Don't try to adjust it. It will not be possible.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Especially in Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Especially in Kali-yuga. So we are offering them shelter, that "In this age you are not accustomed to go to the forest. It will be more inconvenient. Come to our center and be Kṛṣṇa conscious and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your problems will be solved." This is our mission. Everyone is faced with problem. Otherwise why there is majority of suicide? Everyone is faced with problem.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's best to go this way. (golfers are playing on course)

Harikeśa: Oh, somebody hitting.

Prabhupāda: (mis-hearing) Shilling?

Harikeśa: No, they are playing golf.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How persistent life is this. His main body is cut into pieces; still, he's struggling to exist. He has got some attachment—"I shall live here, stand here for ten thousand years." This is māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī (BG 7.14). Huh? (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How can a man's intelligence be rectified? If intelligence is the . . .

Prabhupāda: This hari-kīrtana, chant. Somehow or other, induce them to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa—everything all right. By flattering, by soliciting, by giving him prasāda, by elevating him, that "You are the best man in the world," in this way inducing him, "Please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," then he will be rectified. This is Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. There is no other way. He is ruined, and the more the Kali-yuga advances, he becomes more and more ruined. All other attempts will failure. Don't you see in your country the LSD-addicted hippies? Government spends so much money to rectify them—failure. But as soon as they come to our camp, immediately success. How it is possible?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: By this chanting of the holy name . . .

Prabhupāda: That is the amazement. That is the amazement of Professor Judah and all others, that "How it is happening? There is something in the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is good propaganda with the governments also. This is good way to get the governments to support our movement more and more, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: The government never objected to our movement. Never. I never met any objection from government side. Neither even Christian priestly side. I never met any objection. They understand that "He is doing something."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only from your Godbrothers. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You don't like the sunshine so much.

Prabhupāda: Only at the time of massage. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . .Vedic statement, or is it just preference?

Prabhupāda: No, that is my personal. During winter it is pleasing, of course, sunshine.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . .walk this way. There's a ravine here. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, it always seems that there is some kind of inspiration for spiritual life there. Is that simply mental concoction, or is it actually a fact, the land itself?

Prabhupāda: Land. It is the influence of the land. Just like Vṛndāvana. Whatever you may be, you stay there, you become spiritualized. Simply you stay there. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible to reform a person even against their will?

Prabhupāda: No, not possible. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . .sign, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that someone is actually having change in heart?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the sign that someone is actually having change in heart?

Prabhupāda: By his action. (break) . . .kaśipu tried to make Prahlāda atheist. He failed. And Prahlāda tried to make his father theist. He failed. Don't you see?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So unless one agrees, you cannot turn him. It is not possible. Five-years-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiraṇyakaśipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that "You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you." He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that "You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?" Both of them could not turn to their side. Prahlāda remained Prahlāda, and Hiraṇyakaśipu remained Hiraṇyakaśipu.

(break) . . .can expect that without agreeing, conceding, one can be reformed. No, that is not possible. Impossible.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not simply by rubber stamp.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means . . . accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise, friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means, "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Śiṣyas te 'ha śādhi mām prapannam (BG 2.7). "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, "Oh, you're not thinking for yourself anymore. You're not . . . You're becoming . . ."

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, "Yes, we have surrendered." That is the way. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). The first term is surrender, praṇipāta. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: "Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do." Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible. (break) Basic priciple is surrender, but why one is surrendered unless there is love.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People have to be great fool not to take to Krsna Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Grateful?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fool.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Mudha, that is why we say mudha. That is the state sympton. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Na māṁ as soon as he speaks that one is not Krsna conscious, then he is mudha. Decision (break) Judgement is already there. (break) ..this lump (laughter) lump of matter. It is our mental concoction that this lump is bad, this lump is good. The whole thing is lump. There is no such discrimination, this lump or that lump (end)