730830 - Lecture BG 02.28 - London

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



730830BG-LONDON - August 30, 1973 - 24:08 Minutes



Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

avyaktādīni bhūtāni
vyakta-madhyāni bhārata
avyakta-nidhanāny eva
tatra kā paridevanā
(BG 2.28)

(break)

(00:31)

Translation: "All created beings are unmanifest in their beginning, manifest in their interim state and unmanifest again when they are annihilated. So what need is there for lamentation?"

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Pradyumna: Accept...

(break)

Prabhupāda: ...believing in the existence of soul. So soul is eternal. So there is nothing, no cause for lamentation, because soul will remain. Even the body is destroyed, there is no cause of lamentation. And those who do not believe, that "There is no soul; everything was void in the beginning..." So in the beginning there was void, and in the middle it is manifested. Then again it is void. So void to void, where there is lamentation? This is the argument Kṛṣṇa is giving. Both ways you cannot lament. Then?

Pradyumna: (purport) "Yet even if, for argument's sake, we accept the atheistic theory, there is still no cause for lamentation. Apart from the separate existence of the soul, the material elements remain unmanifested before creation. From this subtle state of unmanifestation comes manifestation. Just as from ether, air is generated; from air, fire is generated; from fire, water is generated; and from water, earth becomes manifested. From the earth, many varieties of manifestations..."

Prabhupāda: This is the process of creation. From ether, then sky, then air, then fire, then water, then earth. This is the process of creation. Yes?

Pradyumna: "Take, for example, a big skyscraper manifested from the earth. When it is dismantled, the manifestation becomes again unmanifested and remains as atoms in the ultimate stage. The law of conservation of energy remains, but in course of time things are manifested and unmanifested. That is the difference. Then what cause is there for lamentation either in the stage of manifestation or unmanifestation? Somehow or other, even in the unmanifested stage, things are not lost.

Both in the beginning and at the end all elements remain unmanifested, and only in the middle are they manifested, and this does not make any real material difference. And if we accept the Vedic conclusion as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā (antavanta ime dehāḥ) that these material bodies are perishable in due course of time (nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ) but that soul is eternal, then we must remember always that the body is like a dress. Therefore why lament the changing of a dress?

"The material body has no factual existence in relation to the eternal soul. It is something like a dream. In a dream we may think of flying in the sky or sitting on a chariot as a king, but when we wake up we can see that we are neither in the sky nor seated on the chariot. The Vedic wisdom encourages self-realization on the basis of the nonexistence of the material body. Therefore in either case, whether one believes in the existence of the soul or one does not believe in the existence of the soul, there is no cause for lamentation for loss of the body."

Prabhupāda: One point in this connection is that at night, when I am dreaming, I forget this body. This body, in dream I am seeing that I have gone in a different place, talking with different men, and my position is different. But at that time I don't remember that actually my body is lying on the bed in the apartment where I have come. But we don't remember this body. It is everyone's experience. Similarly, when you come again, awakening stage in the morning after getting up from the bed, I forget all the bodies I created in my dream. So which one is correct? This is correct? This body's correct, or that body's correct? Because at night I forget this body, and in daytime I forget the other, dreaming body. So both of them not correct. It is simply hallucination. But I am correct, because I see at night, I see in daytime.

So I am eternal, the body is not eternal. This is the fact. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). Śarīriṇaḥ, the owner of the body, is eternal, but not the body. In so many ways Kṛṣṇa is explaining about the material condition of this body. But those who are not very intelligent, with poor fund of knowledge, it is very difficult for them to understand. Otherwise, things are very clear. This point is very clear. That at night I forget this body, and in daytime I forget the body at night. This is a fact. Similarly, I may forget the body of my last appearance, last duration of life, or I may not know the future body. But I will exist, and the body may change, but I'll have to accept another body, which is temporary. But I, as I exist, it means I have got a body. That is spiritual body.

So spiritual body is existing, and spiritual advancement means first of all to know spiritual identification of myself. Just like Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu after retiring from his ministership. So he first of all said that ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya (CC Madhya 20.102): "Actually, I do not know what I am, and why I am subjected to the miserable condition of life." Therefore the miserable condition of life is this body. Because I get... In dream also. When I get another body, sometimes we find that on top of the very tall bamboo or tall mountain, I am just now, I'm falling down. And I'm afraid; I sometimes cry, "Now I am now falling down." So this body, this material body, which body I belong to, which I am... Actually, I do not belong to any of these bodies. I have got a separate spiritual body.

So this human life is meant for that realization, that "I am not this material body. I am spiritual body." Then next question will be, "Then what is my function?" In the present body, under some material condition I am thinking, "This is my body," and the body is produced under certain condition of this country or this family; therefore, "This is my family, this is my country, this is my nation." Everything in bodily concept of life. And if I am not this body, then in relationship with this body, either my family or my country or my society or my other relationship, they are also false, because the body is false.

Therefore Śaṅkarācārya theorized this: brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman means the soul is actually the fact, not the material manifestation. Material manifestation, of course, he says false. We don't say false. We say temporary. So our main concern is that I am not temporary; my body is temporary. Now I am working for the body. That is illusion. Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Then what is real fact? Real fact is that I am spiritual particle, and the whole spirit is Kṛṣṇa, or God. Therefore, as part and parcel of God, it is my duty to serve God. That is spiritual life, bhakti-yoga. That is called svarūpa. And in another place, the Bhagavad-gītā confirms it that sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). When I realize that I am not this body, then immediately I transcend the three modes of material nature: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Under the bodily concept of life I am influenced by one of the modes of material nature and acting.

In the Bhāgavata also it is stated: yayā sammohito jīva ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakaṁ manute anartham (SB 1.7.5). So because I have accepted this body, which is made of either of the three modes of material nature, and identifying, therefore I have created so many anartha. Anartha means unwanted things. Tat-kṛtaṁ cābhipadyate (SB 1.7.5). And after creating in bodily relationships so many unwanted things, I am absorbed in thought, that "I am..., I belong to such-and-such nation. Therefore I have got my duty to do this, do that for the nation or to the society or to the family or to my personal self, or to my wife, my children." This is, according to Vedic conception life, this is illusion. Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Janasya moho 'yam. Moha means illusion. I am creating illusory circumstances and becoming entangled. This is my position. But my real objective is how to get out this illusion and come to my original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then I get back. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means spiritual body. As soon as I act on the basis of my spiritual body, that is called liberation. That is wanted. Then I live blissfully in eternal life of knowledge. That is my problem.

But people are being educated on this bodily concept of life, and they are creating problems, and in order to solve the problems they are becoming entangled in sinful activities. Just like this morning we were discussing about killing the baby's body within the womb, abortion. Because we do not know that the soul within the body of the baby, that cannot be killed. That cannot be killed. But that is also explained, that one who knows the eternity of the soul, he does not kill anyone, neither the soul is killed. But we are creating problem. Because the soul has taken shelter in this body, and the so-called medical science advising to destroy that body, that means he is becoming entangled. The person who is advising... I understand that one gentleman comes here, his wife is a medical doctor, and her business is to check the pregnant wife, woman, and advise whether the child should be killed or not. This is the business.

So the situation of the world, due to ignorance of the soul they are creating so many sinful activities and becoming entangled. But they have no knowledge how they are becoming entangled. This is māyā's..., prakṣepātmika-śakti, āvaraṇātmika. Although he is being entangled, but he's thinking that he's advancing, advancing in scientific knowledge. This is their knowledge. The gentleman was talking that he's a mining engineer. So mining engineer, his business is to make the atmosphere within the mine very comfortable. Just imagine, he has gone down the, within the earth just like the mouse hole, and he's improving that mouse hole.

After being educated, after getting degrees, his position is to enter into the dark, dark, I mean to say, hole of the earth, and he's trying to scientific advancement by cleansing the air within the mine. He's condemned, that he has been forced to give up the outer, outer space, free air. He has been condemned to go into, within the earth, and he's proud of scientific advancement. This is going on. This is scientific advancement.

So manute anartham. That is Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva, before writing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by the..., under the instruction of Nārada, he meditated what is the position.

bhakti-yogena manasi
samyak praṇihite amale
apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇaṁ
māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam
(SB 1.7.4)

He saw, realized, there are two things: the māyā and Kṛṣṇa. Māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam. Taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa. This māyā cannot stand without Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa is not affected by māyā. Because Kṛṣṇa is not affected, absorbed. But the living entities, yayā sammohito jīva (SB 1.7.5), the living entities, they become affected by the presence of māyā. Kṛṣṇa is not affected. Just like the sun and the sunshine. Sunshine means combination of illuminating particles. That is sunshine. It is scientifically proven. Sparks, little atomic sparks, shining sparks. So similarly, we are also just like the shining sparks of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is compared with the sun. Kṛṣṇa-sūrya-sama, māyā andhakāra (CC Madhya 22.31). Now when there is cloud, māyā, the sun is not affected. But the small particles, sunshine, they are affected. Just try to understand. Here is sun, and below, many millions of miles below, the cloud. And the cloud is covering part of the sunshine, which is combination of illuminating particles. So the māyā, or the cloud, cannot cover the sun, but it can cover the minute shining particles. So we are affected. Kṛṣṇa is not affected.

Therefore Vyāsadeva saw apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam. He saw... Just like in aeroplane, you go above the cloud. The sun is not affected at all by the cloud. Although below the aeroplane you'll see vast mass of cloud. Similarly, māyā cannot affect Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā. Mama māyā (BG 7.14). Kṛṣṇa says, "My illusory energy." Kṛṣṇa is never affected by the illusory energy, exactly like the cloud. But the Māyāvādī philosopher, they say that when impersonal Absolute Truth comes, appears...

They also accept the incarnation, but their philosophy is that ultimately the Absolute Truth is impersonal. When He appears as a person, He accepts the māyā body. This is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa may be accepted as the Supreme God, but He has accepted a material body. That means they want to compare Kṛṣṇa with ordinary living entity, and that is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is said that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes in His original form... Original form is two-handed. It is also accepted in the Bible: "Man is made after the image of God." So God has got two-handed. Even the four-handed Viṣṇu form is not the original form. Viṣṇu form is secondary manifestation of Saṅkarṣaṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is never affected by māyā. This is point.

(aside:) You can read the next...

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

āścaryavat paśyati kaścit enam
āścaryavad vadati tathaiva cānyaḥ
āścaryavac cainam anyaḥ śṛṇoti
śrutvāpy enaṁ veda na caiva kaścit
(BG 2.29)

(break)

Translation: "Some describe him as amazing, some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all."

Prabhupāda: So we shall discuss tomorrow. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)