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730818 - Lecture BG 02.12 - London

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730818BG-LONDON - August 18, 1973 - 37:23 Minutes

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse) (devotees repeat)

na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ
na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ
na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ
sarve vayam ataḥ param
(BG 2.12)


Prabhupāda: So you can dictate to correct.

Pradyumna: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Go on. Word meaning.

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of synonyms)

na—never; tu—but; eva—certainly; aham—I; jātu—any time;

Prabhupāda: (interrupting synonyms) Now the word, it is not correct. Jātu, "become," this is incorrect, so you correct it. Jātu means "At any time."


na—never; āsam—existed; na—it is not so; tvam—yourself; na—not; ime—all these; janādhipāḥ—kings; na—never; ca—also; eva—certainly; na—not like that; bhaviṣyāmaḥ—shall exist; sarve—all of us; vayam—we; ataḥ param—hereafter.

Translation: "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be."

Prabhupāda: This is very important verse. The modern scientist, philosophers, they say that after finishing this body, we no more exist. Finished, everything finished. This is not new. In olden times also there were atheists like Cārvāka Muni, he also said like that: bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kutaḥ punar āgamano bhavet: "Now why you are worrying about next life? As soon as this body is burned into ashes, everything is finished."

According to Vedic funeral ritualistic ceremony, the body is burned. There are three end of the body—either to become stool or to become ashes or to become earth. Those who are burying the body, just like the Christian, Muhammadans do, the body becomes earth. Everything, from the earth it has come up: "Dust thou were, dust thou beist." This beautiful body, nice body, will become earth. And those who are burning, so their body will become ashes. And those who throw the body to be eaten by jackals and crows, they become stool. This is the end of the body.

We are taking so much care of this body, but the ultimate end of this body is either stool, earth or ashes. So foolish persons who are in the bodily concept of life, they are thinking, "After all, this body will be finished. So, so long the body is there, senses are there, let us enjoy. Why so much restrictions—no illicit sex, no gambling, no . . .? These are all nonsense. Let us enjoy life." This is atheistic life. Foolish life. They do not know.

So the body is not all. This is the first lesson to understand, what is spiritual life, what is spiritual knowledge. But all rascals, they do not know. Therefore Kṛṣṇa first of all slapped Arjuna: aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). "You do not know what is the fact, and talking like a very learned man. Just try to understand what is truth." Na tv evāhaṁ jātu. First thing is that nāsam; we have no nāsam. We never die. That will be explained later on more clearly. We do not die, nāsam, at any time. It is not that sometimes we die and sometimes . . . no. Any time, jātu. At any time.

So: "Sir, You are Supreme Personality of Godhead, You may not die. But we die, we are ordinary living entities." So Kṛṣṇa says, nāsam, na tvam, na . . . na ahaṁ, na tu eva aham jātu nāsaṁ na tvam: "Neither you nor I. We never die." "So it may be I am Your friend and You are Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the others will die." No. Neme janādhipāḥ: "Neither these, all these people, all these soldiers, the kings who have assembled here, they'll also not. There is no end. They'll never die."

So, na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ, "It is not that we did not exist in the past, and we are existing at present. That is everyone knows. So in the future, don't think that we may not exist."Na bhaviṣyāmaḥ. "It is not that we shall not exist in the future." Na bhaviṣyāmaḥ, not exist, and another not. Two nots makes one yes. Two negative makes one positive. So therefore, we have two negatives: na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ. Na bhaviṣyāmaḥ means not to exist in the future; that is not. That means we shall exist. Na caiva na bhaviṣyāmaḥ sarve, all of us. All of us, you . . . not that, "Because I am God, because you are My friend, God's friend, and all others . . ." No, everyone. This is knowledge. In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad there is the verse nityo nityānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Nityo nityānām. Nityānām means ever-existing. Nitya means ever, always.

So either Kṛṣṇa or we, every one of us are ever-existing, because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, if Kṛṣṇa is ever-existing, so we are also ever-existing. A particle of gold is gold, qualitatively. The value of gold mine and the gold earring may be different. Gold earring may be, say, hundred dollars, but a gold mine, millions of dollars. But both of them are gold, not that it is iron, therefore less value. No. Small quantity. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Spirit, person. He is all-pervading. Everywhere He is present, He is so expansive. We are simply . . . we are also all-pervading, but within this body. That's all. Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading means throughout the whole creation Kṛṣṇa all-pervading. And we are also all-pervading only in this body. You are all-pervading within your body. I know the pains and pleasure of my body; you know the pains and pleasure of your body. So all-pervading means within this body. If I pinch anywhere, I'll feel pain, but you will not feel pain. If I pinch my body, I will feel pain; you will not feel pain. Therefore you are not all-pervading, I am not all-pervading.

But Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading. When I feel pain, Kṛṣṇa knows it. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26): "I know everything." That is Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand distinction between Kṛṣṇa and us. He's all-pervading, but He's nitya, ever-existing. We are also ever-existing. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). We have got knowledge, Kṛṣṇa has got knowledge. But we have got limited knowledge. Kṛṣṇa has got unlimited knowledge. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa is also cognizant. He's also acknowledged. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. Then where is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and us? Yes, there is difference. What is that? That Kṛṣṇa, singular number, nityo nityānām—nityānām, this is plural number—cetanaś cetanānām. Cetanānām, this plural number. So there is one person, singular number; others, they are plural number, we jīvas. Anantyāya kalpate.

Jīvas, that is described, the dimension of the jīva. I have several times explained, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 5.9). First of all, divide the tip of the hair into hundred parts. Then take one of the parts, one hundredth part, again divide into hundred parts. That small, less than atom, that is the magnitude of the jīva. And they are anantyāya kalpate. There is no limit. There is no limit how many living entities are there. If you search out, after passing stool, if you search out stool, you'll find millions of living entities, germs. Even from the hole of your room, there is small hole, and there are ants, hundreds and thousands will come out.

So similarly, within the hole, within the earth, within the air, within the fire even, there are germs and worms in the fire. These rascals, they do not know. They simply think . . . because nitya, nitya means ever-existing. So in the fire the living entity does not die. They sterilize, "Now it is sterilized." That is all nonsense. Sterilized means the body is killed, but not this . . . there is abortion—the body is killed. Contraception: the body is killed. But the soul, he's not killed. If you make some inconvenience to the soul who has taken shelter in the womb, and you kill the body, then he'll have to search out another body. This is going on.

Just see how much rascal civilization is going on. They're thinking they're killing—this way killed, that way killed. No. You . . . it is sinful, because you create inconvenience to that particular soul. He was taking shelter, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). By his karma he has been given shelter to develop a body, and if you kill that body, that means you go against the order of the Supreme, daiva-netreṇa. Suppose you are destined to occupy some room, and somebody does not allow you to enter that room, is it not criminal? It is criminal, unlawful detention, unlawful . . . it is unlawful, even in the state. Similarly, a living entity is developing one body, and if you kill that, you become immediately criminal, punishable.

And the living entity who is checked to develop the body, he's put into inconvenience, he's also sinful. He's also sinful. Therefore it may be simply he's wandering from one womb to another, one womb to another, one womb to another, because he committed that sinful activity, abortion. Now the man who causes this abortion, he also being punished that, "You'll never see the light of this world. You'll simply have to live one womb to another, one womb to another. Go on." So nature's punishment is like that. But these foolish people, they do not know.

Nityo nityānām. So every living entity is nitya, as Kṛṣṇa is nitya. He is singular number; we are plural number. That is the difference. We are many; Kṛṣṇa is one. There cannot be many Kṛṣṇa, but there are many living entities. So what is the difference between the singular number? That is also stated here: eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This one singular number is supplying all the necessities of this plural number. Is it not fact? We are very much disturbed overpopulation. That is all nonsense. Kṛṣṇa is quite able, if there is overpopulation . . . there cannot be overpopulation, because there are already ananta living entities, what to speaking of overpopulation? It is already there; you cannot count. There is no question of . . .

There are already overpopulation. And they can be provided by Kṛṣṇa. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa is not limited; He is also unlimited. He can provide unlimited living entities. There is no scarcity of food. So this theory that overpopulation is nonsense. It is also nonsense. There cannot be overpopulation. But there is restriction, by nature. Nature will restrict production of food if there are demons. Nature will not provide the demons.

You'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Fourth Canto, nature is quite prepared to supply all the foods, but as soon as there are number of demons . . . because the whole plan is to correct. Just like the criminals are sent to the prison house for being corrected so that they may not again commit criminals. That is the purpose of . . . similarly, we are all criminals who are in this material world. The purpose is to be corrected. We wanted to imitate Kṛṣṇa, to become Kṛṣṇa, and therefore we violated the orders of Kṛṣṇa, and that criminality means material life.

kṛṣṇa bhūliya jiva bhoga vāñchā kare
pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
(Prema-vivarta 6.2)

This is māyā, this material world, māyā. This body is false, māyā. So we have to accept this body because we wanted to enjoy. So enjoy. You enjoy with this body, particular body. Either human's body, or dog's body, or cat's body, or demigod's body, you get as you desire. You get a material body and enjoy. This is material life.

So Kṛṣṇa also . . . although in the material life Kṛṣṇa is providing all necessities of life. Duly, there is seasonal changes. You get seasonal fruits, flowers, grains, and all necessities. You'll be still given chance, especially for the human being, that you get all supplies, necessities. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). All necessities. But again you revive your consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the plan. But if you do not revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you simply enjoy the senses, then there will be restriction of supply. This is the law. That is restriction of supply. Therefore there will be no rain. And if there is no rain, what factory will do, you rascal? You can manufacture scissors and knives and buckets of plastic, but you cannot prepare rice and wheat. That is not possible, sir. That will depend on rain. So immediately rains will be restricted. Now you all chew all these kankar. What is this kankar? These stone particles?

Devotee: Pebbles?

Prabhupāda: What are called these? In Hindi, it is called kankar (gravel), Indian.

Revatīnandana: Pebbles?

Prabhupāda: Pebbles, big . . . small. Sand, sand. Yes. So you can eat that. When there is no rain . . . that is also eatable. The peacocks, they eat. The pigeons, they eat. Yes, the . . . they can eat. You have seen? They're eating. So everything is there eatable. So there is no question of overpopulation. Overpopulation is already there, anantyāya kalpate. They why do you call overpopulation? When there is already fire, why do you say there will be fire? It is already there.

So . . . but the restriction, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That eka, that eka, Kṛṣṇa, He orders. He does not order actually. Just like not every time the police has to be ordered by the superior authority to punish the criminal. They know how to punish. Similarly, the nature knows how to punish these criminals. Therefore, the scientists are finding now shortage of petrol, shortage of this, shortage . . . "What to do? What to do?" This is the position. Otherwise, there is no question of overpopulation. The supply is restricted. That is the problem. Eko yo bahūnām.

Because He supplies all the necessities, the supply will be restricted. As we become more and more sinful and without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they . . . they will be put into difficulties, they will be dying within the womb, they will be killed within the womb, there will be war, there will be pestilence, there will be famine, there will be earthquake. In so many ways we have to die, again, take birth. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), this business will go on. And ultimately, when the whole universe is annihilated, then again we take shelter in the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu and live for, in that way, without any body, for many millions of years. Again there is creation, and then again given chance, "All right, take another chance. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious."

So this is material creation. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). As we have got this body, we have got this chance not to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and if we miss, then I do not know where I am going next life. But I am not going to die, that's a fact. That will be explained in the next verse. I am not going to die. So we existed in the past, we are now existing at present, and we shall continue to exist in the future. This is the philosophy. But how we shall exist—what kind of body, either demigod's body or dog's body or tree's body or fish's body—that will depend on my work. Or we go back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, like . . . we get the spiritual body like Kṛṣṇa. Everything is possible.

So it is our business to see what kind of body we shall get next life. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Actually if we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then after giving up this body we are no more going to accept any material body. Because spiritual body is already there. That is eternal. The spirit soul, the spiritual body, that is never vanquished. It was existing in the past, it is existing now, and it will continue to exist in the future. Because people may say: "How is that? How odd thing Kṛṣṇa is speaking, that na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsaṁ na tvaṁ neme janādhipāḥ (BG 2.12). Because actually, we died. Maybe we have taken birth again, but everyone dies. How that, that we do not die?" No. It is not the body, but Kṛṣṇa is speaking about the soul. Soul is ever-existing. It existed in the past, it is existing now, and it will exist. Maybe different type of body. That is Kṛṣṇa's instruction.

The another thing is here, the Māyāvādī philosopher says that we are one. There is no "you" and "me." Everything one. So, then Kṛṣṇa is defective. If Kṛṣṇa says: "You, Me, all others," so it is not one. It is not homogeneous. We are all individuals. "You are individual, I am individual, and all the kings and soldiers, they are all individuals." So the Māyāvādī theory that after liberation everyone becomes one, one lump sum . . . what is called? Homogeneous spirit. No. Then Kṛṣṇa is false. The Māyāvādī theory accepted, that we become one lump sum, then Kṛṣṇa's theory—not theory; Kṛṣṇa's actual knowledge—then it becomes false. And if Kṛṣṇa speaks false, something defective, then where is the use of reading Bhagavad-gītā?

Why should we read Bhagavad-gītā, which is spoken by a person who is defective? No. That's not . . . what Kṛṣṇa is speaking, that is fact. That is fact. Otherwise, why Bhagavad-gītā is given so importance? So, so Māyāvādī philosophers, they try to interpret in a different way, " 'I' means this, 'you' means that," some . . . (break) Māyāvādī liberation means that after being liberated, we mix, we mix. You can mix also. Just like the sunshine, sunshine, this brilliant sunshine is combination of bright particles. That is scientific. Similarly, brahma-jyoti, brahma-jyoti, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti.

First brahma-jyoti then localised then personal these are the process of self realisation. So in the brahma-jyoti because we are individual souls we cannot stay, brahma-jyoti cannot stay they have to come back again. Because each and every individual soul is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa therefore he is seeking ānanda, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. Ānanda means blissfulness, so because he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa he is very much fond of living with many. Just like he is with cowherd's boy, his gopīs, his Queens in so many ways he never lives alone.

You will never find that Kṛṣṇa is alone, that is Kṛṣṇa. So we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, how we can live alone. Therefore we require societies, society friendship and love divinely bestowed upon man, these things are there. We require society we cannot live alone without any activity, take a child if you stop him to play and if you ask him, sit down, he will be mad because nature is that he wants to work on to enjoy. Therefore as soon as there are many children, yesterday we saw them playing, that is the nature.

So this monoism to become one with the Brahman effulgence, that will not stay, they will feel inconvenient and because they have no information of the planets of Goloka Vṛndāvana or Vaikuṇṭha planets they do not know so to enjoy life they again come back, patanty adhaḥ. (SB 11.5.3) These are the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ, this Māyāvādī philosophers, vimukta-māninaḥ, "Now, I am now become liberated now I am one with the Supreme," that is vimukta-māninaḥ where they are thinking like that as a rascal. Actually it cannot be mixed up everyone is individual but they are thinking therefore this word is used vimukta-māninaḥ, māninaḥ means falsely thinking.

Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ, tvayy asta-bhāvāt, why they are thinking? Because they're not devotee they do not think that there is another God worshipable, we are all God now we are mixed up. That is monism. So these Māyāvādīs when they think that, among the Māyāvādīs sannyāsī they address is, namo nārāyaṇa that means that everyone is seeing that I have already become Nārāyaṇa. Although they are begging in the street, therefore still they are thinking that each of them has become Nārāyaṇa and our Vivekananda Swami he thought actually you are Nārāyaṇa why you are begging therefore he give a new name daridra-nārāyaṇa, poor Nārāyaṇa. If you say a poor Nārāyaṇa then there is another rich Nārāyaṇa so there will be duality, how you support your monism?

As soon as you say daridra-nārāyaṇa so there is rich Nārāyaṇa also so there immediately it becomes dualism, dvaita-vāda. So there are so many defects in their philosophy, therefore Bhagavat says that vimukta-māninaḥ falsely thinking that they have become liberated. Why? Tvayy asta-bhāvāt, because they have no information of Your lotus feet. So what is the result, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ, they undergo severe penances and austerities. Actually Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they observe, they do not use any bed, they lie down, that is the stricture of the Śaṅkara-sampradāya sannyāsa, simply on the floor, three times must take bath, so many strict regulations and actually they, some of them follow but what you are following? You are given so much leniency, so āruhya kṛcchreṇa, after undergoing so severe austerities of life they approach that they mix or they approach the impersonal effulgence. Just like if you, that sputnik . . . (indistinct) . . . but what is that sputnik, you are living on the sky and soon as you are tired again come back, as soon as you are tired. Otherwise why they are coming back . . . "ptptptpt" . . . go round, back so long you do not get a shelter you have to come back. Similarly this Māyāvādīs they mix with the effulgence Kṛṣṇa's brahma-jyoti but because there is no . . . there is only existence but there is no blissfulness of life, so simply existence will not . . . suppose if I live for thousands of years but I have no society is that very good condition of life? No. Suppose somebody gives me blessing that you will live for thousands of years, but no competition, shall I accept it? Eh?

That's not possible therefore even though this Māyāvādīs they approach, they approach actually, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ, paraṁ padaṁ means the impersonal brahma-jyoti. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ, again falls. So why they fall down? Now, anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they have neglected Your lotus feet, neglected. They do not know that there is Vaikuṇṭha loka there is Goloka Vṛndāvana there is Kṛṣṇa there is service of Kṛṣṇa. These things are unknown to them on account of this they fall down. So the sāyujya-mukti to become one with the effulgence is a false theory or even if you mix for some time because there is simply eternity but we are being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa we are also possessed the three transcendental qualities, sac-cid-ānanda as Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha.

We are spiritually also sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha, but not exactly like Kṛṣṇa therefore our sat eternity sometimes becomes disturbed by falling down in this material world, but we are seeking ānanda pleasure in this material body, we are never happy. This is the distinction between Vaiṣṇava philosophy, so don't try to become victims of Māyāvādī philosophy. Stick to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and go back home back to Godhead and dance with Him. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya, Haribol . . . (cut) (end)