730225 - Conversation - Jakarta

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



730225R1-JAKARTA - February 25, 1973 - 41:15 Minutes



Devotee: ...mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam ātmānaṁ mat-parāyanaḥ (BG 9.34).

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Devotee: Again?

Prabhupāda: Yes, now. Read the translation.

Devotee: Translation: "Engage your mind always in thinking of Me. Offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me."

Prabhupāda: So this is the process. Says, "Always think of Me."

(speaks Hindi with guest for some Minutes)

Formula... This is the translation.

(aside:) Read the purport. Purport.

Devotee: Purport: "In this verse it is clearly indicated that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only means of being delivered from the clutches of this contaminated material world. Sometimes unscrupulous commentators distort the meaning of what is clearly stated here: that all devotional service should be offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.

Unfortunately, unscrupulous commentators divert the mind of the reader to that which is not at all feasible. Such commentators do not know that there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa's mind and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not an ordinary human being. He's Absolute Truth. His body..."

Prabhupāda: Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan. He has explained this verse... When Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ (BG 9.34), he comments, "It is not to the person Kṛṣṇa." Just see. Kṛṣṇa says man-manā, "Always think of Me." And he, out of his so-called nonsense scholarship, he says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa." (Hindi)

Indian man (1): He's impersonalist.

Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense.

Indian man (1): He's impersonalist. I read that Bhagavad-gītā in school.

Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense. Now he's suffering. I saw him last year in Madras. He has lost his brain, like that. He's suffering now. You cannot ask him whether he's hungry or whether he wants some... Only his daughter is attending, and here he cannot understand who is standing before him; he cannot speak. Like that. (Hindi) He has committed so much offenses under the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa.

(Hindi for some Minutes) ...very meritorious.

(to guest:) I think you cannot understand Hindi.

Devotee: He speaks English.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So you can understand English then. So (Hindi). Duṣkṛtinaḥ means... Kṛtiḥ means meritorious, very meritorious. But duṣkṛtiḥ. Whatever merit he has got... Nowadays, at the present moment, the civilization is so made that everyone as human being... Any human being, he has got some merit because he is not cat and dog. He's a man. As a man he has got brain, better than the cats and dogs.

That's a fact. And actually they're doing so many things. Just like this picture. It is a very meritorious workmanship. So everyone can do some meritorious workmanship. But when that workmanship is diverted to..., for the use of sinful activities... Just like one man is very meritorious, he's planning to form a party how to plunder. This requires merit. Without merit you cannot form a party. But the merit is being used for plundering, for harassing, for so many other sinful activities.

So that is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Merit is there, but the merit is being misused for sinful activities. They are called duṣkṛtiḥ. Just like modern scientist. It is meritorious that they have discovered the atomic bomb. The merit is used for killing. If you just use your merit so that man may live... That they're dying. Everyone is dying. So you have discovered a bomb which will accelerate death. Death, everyone is going to die. So if you manufacture something which will actually help my death, is that very meritorious? If you discover something that will stop my death, that is meritorious. And everyone is dying, and you have discovered some machine so that you can die quickly. So what is the merit? But people are appreciating, "Oh, this is meritorious." This is called duṣkṛtinaḥ. Duṣkṛtinaḥ, mean one has got merit, it is being spoiled for doing something wrong. This is called duṣkṛtinaḥ.

So such people, duṣkṛtinaḥ, who, one who is using the merit for sinful activities, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. He cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15), and rascal. Rascal means denying the existence of God. He's a rascal. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he's a rascal. Rascal means poor fund of knowledge. Everything... Suppose this is a country, Indonesia, nicely being managed: the roads are there; the policemen there, they're directing... Just yesterday we were trying to enter in a one-way, policeman directs. So this symptom says that there is a good government.

So any sane man, he'll see the cosmic manifestation—that the sun is rising exactly in time; the moon is rising exactly in time; the seasons are changing; the seas in its position... Just like the Pacific Ocean, at any moment it can overflow at any place, but it does not do so. You walk... I was walking in Los Angeles just about three feet away from the sea. So I was explaining to my students, "Now, I am just three feet away from the sea, and the sea is so vast. At any second it can overflood us. But why you are confident the sea will not come here?" Because we know, by God's order, although the sea, the ocean, is so big, it cannot violate the order of God. That you are big, that's all right. But you cannot come beyond this line.

So these things are being managed, and there is no God? What a nonsense. If things are... Just like when you pass through a house, sometimes if you don't see..., the house is not properly taken care of, or there is no light in front of the house, there are so many garbages—we immediately say, "Oh, there is no man in this house." And as soon as you see house is very nicely kept, there is light and the garden is kept, we understand there is a man. So this is common sense. If things are going on, everything is going on so nicely, how you can say there is no management, there is no brain? How you can say? What is this nonsense? Huh? How you can say there is no God?

Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). These are the rascal, atheist proposition, asatyam. There is no truth in it. Zero. From zero it has come. Just see nonsense. Does anything come out of zero? You assemble zero, many millions of zero in one place, but still it is zero. Do you think that if you make zero, zero, zero, zero, million times, has it any value? How do they conclude from zero such a management, cosmic manifestation has come? The flower is coming out nicely in its own way. The tree is coming. Human being is coming. Everything is in order. And there is no management. How much rascal there. Just see.

So these atheist class, they're rascals, mūḍhāḥ, third-class men without any knowledge. Na māṁ... Duṣkṛtinaḥ, I've already explained. Using the merit for sinful activities, they're called duṣkṛtinaḥ. And mūḍhāḥ, these rascals who cannot understand how the management is going on, mūḍhāḥ. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Narādhamāḥ means... Nara means human being; adhama means the lowest, because the lowest of the mankind. The highest of the mankind means who has the knowledge of the Supreme.

He's called highest, brāhmaṇa. Brahma-jānāti, one who knows Brahman, he's called highest. And the lowest means that he has got this body, human form of body, but he is acting like animal. Just like cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is God. So any person who is not understanding, or trying to understand what is God, he's the lowest of the mankind. Because in the human form of life, it is the chance to understand what is God, but he's misusing it. He's using this body just like cats and dogs. They eat, sleep, have sex intercourse and die.

So these things are there. But if somebody argues that "You are saying lowest of the mankind, but we see so many Dr. Radhakrishnans, they also do not admit." Therefore the word is used, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. They appear to be very highly learned scholars, but their real knowledge has been taken by māyā. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Āsuri-bhāva. Why it has been done so? Because āsuri-bhāva, there is no God. That is their determination: "There is no God." Therefore their merit is being misused, they have become the lowest of the mankind. They have become the fool number one, and all their so-called education, academic knowledge, has been taken away by māyā. This is...

So we test only whether he's a devotee of God. If he's not a devotee of God, then we take either of these: he must be the rascal, or lowest of the mankind, or simply using the merit for sinful activities, or his knowledge has been taken away by māyā. Immediately we have no difficulty to understand what class of man he is. The test is whether he has got any sense of understanding God. If not, then he comes to this group. It is not very difficult to study a man, what he is. We have got the formula in the Bhagavad-gītā. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi conversation with guests)

Devotee: Your explanation you've just given was so clear, Prabhupāda. We can easily see. It's so clear.

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Yes, this is the explanation. There is no second explanation. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This is the only explanation. What explanation can be... Who can give another explanation? There is no second explanation. Aiye.

bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya
jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ kriya,
aprāṇasyeva dehasya
maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam
(Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11)

Just like if you decorate the dead body, it may be pleasing to some relatives of the dead body; otherwise what is the value of it? Others will think, "What a foolish man he is, that decorating the dea..." Suppose if there is dead body and you're decorating with sandal pulp, (indistinct) flower, nice cloth. That may be your sentiment because the dead body belongs to your father or mother, like that. It is pleasing to you, but actually what is the value? So similarly, this human civilization is meant for understanding God. If that sense is lacking, then it is simply decoration of the dead body. That's all. There is no value.

Indian man (1): This gentleman doesn't understand English.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)

Indian man (1): He's nice devotee of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. I remember many years ago, I met him in Surabaya. He used to preach on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but in Sindhi language.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Indian man (2): Of course, we do not have good translation in Sindhi language as your translation.

Prabhupāda: Language (Hindi). Aiye.

Indian man (1): He's nice devotee. (Hindi) ...nice dedication (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Indian man (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: So we have explained in the Bhagavad-gītā everything very nicely.

(Hindi conversation for some minutes)

Indian man (1): Ninety-nine point nine percent is like that.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ.

(aside:) Find out that verse. Ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. Yaḥ, y-a-ḥ.

Devotee: Yaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Yaḥ, yam. Yaḥ, yam. Mad bhakti... The Eighteenth Chapter you'll find out, sixty-five, sixty-seven, at the end. Find out.

Indian man (1): Eighteenth Chapter, sixty-five, sixty-seven.

Devotee: (still looking for verse)

Prabhupāda: You don't find? (indistinct)

Indian man (1): You will find sixty-one also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is it. (break)

Devotee:

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ
mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati
bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā
mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ
(BG 18.68)

Translation: "For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me."

Prabhupāda: "Anyone who explains this devotional service, as explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, is guaranteed to come back to Me." That means the preacher of the Bhagavad-gītā is guaranteed to go back to home, back to Godhead.

(aside:) What is the explanation?

Devotee: "Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders.

Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for the devotees only, and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back to home, back to Godhead."

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Devotee:

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu
kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ
bhavitā na ca me tasmād
anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi
(BG 18.69)

"There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he. Nor will there ever be one more dear."

Prabhupāda: Those who are preachers.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: These are the formulas given. Preaching comes... (Hindi) If you want to be very intimately related... You're already related, but intimately, then this is the process. (Hindi) This is the real āśīrvāda. (Hindi) This is real āśīrvāda.

Indian man (1): Shall I recite Bhagavad-gītā Seventh Chapter in Sindhi?

Devotee: Let Prabhupāda speak.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation) Your brother-in-law has not come? Eh? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

(Hindi conversation for some minutes, speaks about devotees and Dai Nippon, explaining about printing costs and credit) (end)