730103 - Lecture BS - Bombay

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



730103BS.-BOMBAY - January 03, 1973 - 53:52 Minutes



Devotees: (chant Brahma-saṁhitā verses)

cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa-
lakṣāvṛteṣu surabhīr abhipālayantam
lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.29)

(I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, the first progenitor who is tending the cows, yielding all desire, in abodes built with spiritual gems, surrounded by millions of purpose trees, always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds of thousands of lakṣmīs or gopīs.)

veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣam-
barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam
kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.30)

(I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is adept in playing on His flute, with blooming eyes like lotus petals with head decked with peacock's feather, with the figure of beauty tinged with the hue of blue clouds, and His unique loveliness charming millions of Cupids.)

ālola-candraka-lasad-vanamālya-vaṁśī-
ratnāṅgadaṁ praṇaya-keli-kalā-vilāsam
śyāmaṁ tri-bhaṅga-lalitaṁ niyata-prakāśaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.31)

(I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, round whose neck is swinging a garland of flowers beautified with the moon-locket, whose two hands are adorned with the flute and jeweled ornaments, who always revels in pastimes of love, whose graceful threefold-bending form of Śyāmasundara is eternally manifest.)

aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛtti-manti
paśyanti pānti kalayanti ciraṁ jaganti
ānanda-cinmaya-sad-ujjvala-vigrahasya
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.32)

(I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, whose transcendental form is full of bliss, truth, substantiality and is thus full of the most dazzling splendor. Each of the limbs of that transcendental figure possesses in Himself, the full-fledged functions of all the organs, and eternally sees, maintains and manifests the infinite universes, both spiritual and mundane.)

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.38)

(I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is Śyāmasundara, Kṛṣṇa Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart of hearts with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love.)

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.39)

(I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who manifested Himself personally as Kṛṣṇa and the different avatāras in the world in the forms of Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Vāmana, etc., as His subjective portions.)

goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
devi maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu
te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.43)

[Lowest of all is located Devī-dhāma [mundane world], next above it is Maheśa-dhāma (abode of Maheśa); above Maheśa-dhāma is placed Hari-dhāma (abode of Hari) and above them all is located Kṛṣṇa's own realm named Goloka. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, who has allotted their respective authorities to the rulers of those graded realms.]

(01:26)

Prabhupāda: Thank you. So govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. These verses, Brahma-saṁhitā, it was composed by Lord Brahmā. Therefore in the Vedic literature, this, this is called saṁhitā. Saṁhitā means part of the Vedic literature. So Lord Brahmā is describing about Kṛṣṇa. There are some foolish question that "Kṛṣṇa appeared five thousand years ago. How He became God?" Actually, that is not the fact. In the Brahma-saṁhitā, Brahmā is describing means from the very creation. Brahmā is the first creature of this universe. So he has explained about Kṛṣṇa by his experience, by his realization.

In the Vedānta-sūtra, Kṛṣṇa is described, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1): the Supreme Person from whom everything has emanated. So that Kṛṣṇa has confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, aham ādir hi devānām (BG 10.2). Devānām means in the beginning there was Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. And Kṛṣṇa is ādi of these devas also. Aham ādir hi devānām. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo: "Everything has emanated from Me."

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitaḥ
(BG 10.8)

So Kṛṣṇa is the ādi-puruṣa. In... Arjuna also confirms. After understanding Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna also confirms:

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam...
(BG 10.12)

Ādyam: the original person. Just like in our genealogical table, in each family there is a person who is the origin of the family—then his son, his son, his grandson, great-grandson. In this way, family expands. Similarly, this creation is from Kṛṣṇa. In the catuh-ślokī Bhāgavata also, aham eva āsam agre (SB 2.9.33/34/35/36): "I, I was present before the creation." Even Śaṅkarācārya, who is impersonalist, he also says, nārāyaṇaḥ paro avyaktād: "The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, He is beyond this material creation." Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktād. Avyaktād aṇḍa-sambhavaḥ. From the avyakta, nonmanifested material mahat-tattva, this material creation has been..., become possible. And before the material creation, beyond the material creation, there is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Lord Brahmā is describing Kṛṣṇa in each verse: govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. He's the original person.

Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti, asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more parā-tattva, superior source, except Kṛṣṇa. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is therefore..., we are trying to place before the civilized human society that the ādi-puruṣa, the original Supreme Personality of Godhead. They are searching after God. There are so many societies—theological society, theosophical society—they are searching after God. But here is God. Why don't you take reference from the Vedic literature? God's reference is there in the Vedic literatures, and God Himself appeared, and He explained Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. And God is accepted...

Not now; even when Kṛṣṇa was present, five thousand years ago, all great sages, saintly persons, great ṛṣis, they also accepted. Nārada, Devala, Vyāsa. When Arjuna, in the Bhagavad-gītā... It is explained in the Tenth Chapter. You know, all, Kṛṣṇa as paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). He, he is addressing Kṛṣṇa as person, bhavān. This bhavān śabda, this word is used, "person," not imperson. Bhavān. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam (BG 10.12). He's not imperson. Puruṣam. Puruṣam means person. Not female also. Puruṣam means male. Puruṣaṁ śāśvatam. Śāśvatam, original; ādyam, the first. So in this way.

And Arjuna has also given reference that all the great sages... At that time, Vyāsadeva... Vyāsadeva is still present. So "Vyāsadeva accepts You, Nārada accepts You, and Asita, Devala, big, big, great sages accepts You. You are personally speaking, and I have realized that You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not manufactured, as nowadays it has become a fashion to manufacture God by votes. No. God is never manufactured. God is God. Not by mystic power one becomes God or by so-called meditation or magical arts. No. God is God. Nobody can become God. Asama urdhva.

In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is described as asama urdhva prapitāmaha ca (BG 11.39). In the Eleventh Chapter, you'll find these words. Prapitāmaha. Because Brahmā is considered... He's called pitāmaha, because the father of the father. If you search out the genealogical table of this universe, especially of the human society, then you go on searching. I am begotten by my father; my father is begotten by his father, his father, his father, his father—you go on. Then ultimately, if you have so much patience to make research, the..., you can get from the śāstras. You can get.

So the original father of this universe is Lord Brahmā; therefore he is addressed as Pitāmaha. But the father of Brahmā also, Brahmā, is also there: Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. The Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is expansion of Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the original Viṣṇu, and Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is expansion of Saṅkarṣaṇa. Saṅkarṣaṇa is expansion of Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa is expansion of another Saṅkarṣaṇa, and that Saṅkarṣaṇa is expansion of Baladeva. And Baladeva is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in the śāstras. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the original person. Govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. It is not that some artist has manufactured a fashionable Kṛṣṇa, and we worship that. No. Kṛṣṇa's the original person. We find it, description, in the Saṁhitās, in the Vedas, in the Ṛg Veda: oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. And the explanation of Vedānta-sūtra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there it is explained: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Because Vedānta-sūtra begins with this aphorism: janmādy asya yataḥ.

So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the original explanation of Vedānta-sūtra. So in the Vedānta-sūtra, explanation of Vedānta-sūtra, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is said,

janmādy asya yataḥ anvayāt itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ
tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yatra sūrayaḥ
(SB 1.1.1)

These descriptions are there. So ādi-kavi, ādi-kavi means Brahmā. Brahmā, ādi-kavi. So tene brahma. Brahmā means śabda-brahman, Vedic literature. So He instructed or imparted in the heart of Brahmā. Because when the creation was there, Brahmā was the only person, living entity, in the beginning. So the question may be that "How Brahmā learned Vedic knowledge?" That is explained: tene brahma... Brahmā. Brahmā means Vedic literature. Śabda-brahman. The information, the description of God, is also Brahman. Brahman is absolute. There is no difference between Brahman and the literature which is describing Brahman. The same thing: just like Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference. Bhagavad-gītā is also Kṛṣṇa.

Otherwise why this book is worshiped since so..., for so long time, since five thousand years, unless the Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa? There are so many literatures, books, are published nowadays. After one year, two years, three years—finished. Nobody cares for it. Nobody cares for it. Nobody reads for... Any literature you take in the history of the world, no literature can exist for five thousand years, repeatedly being read by many, many scholars, religionists and philosophers, all. Why? Because it is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... There is no difference between Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavān. Śabda-brahman.

So Bhagavad-gītā should not be taken as ordinary literature, that one can comment on it by so-called A-B-C-D knowledge. No. That is not possible. The fools and rascals, they try to comment on the Bhagavad-gītā by their A-B-C-D scholarship. That is not possible. It is śabda-brahman. It will be revealed to the person who has devotion to Kṛṣṇa. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve... These are the Vedic instruction.

yasya deve parā bhaktir
yathā deve tathā gurau
tasyaite kathitā hy arthāḥ
prakāśante mahātmanaḥ
(ŚU 6.23)

They becomes revealed. Therefore Vedic literatures are called revealed. It is not that I can understand by your A-B-C-D knowledge; I can purchase one Bhagavad-gītā, and because I have grammatical knowledge, I can understand. No. Vedeṣu durlabha. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, vedeṣu durlabha. You go on studying all Vedic literature by your literary capacity or scholarship—durlabha. It is not possible. Vedeṣu durlabha.

Therefore there are so many persons, they are trying to interpret Bhagavad-gītā by their so-called scholarship, but nobody cares for them. They cannot turn even one person a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is a challenge. In your Bombay there are so many persons, they are explaining Bhagavad-gītā for so many years, but they could not turn even a single person a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. This is our challenge. But this Bhagavad-gītā, now it is being explained as it is, and thousands and thousands of Europeans and Americans, whose forefathers or family never knew the name of Kṛṣṇa, they are becoming devotees. This is the secret of success. But these foolish people, they do not know. They think that by interpreting Bhagavad-gītā by their so-called rascaldom knowledge, they can reveal Bhagavad-gītā. That is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ. Kṛṣṇa is not exposed to these foolish and rascals. Kṛṣṇa is never exposed. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya (BG 7.25). He's not so cheap thing that He'll be understood by these fools and rascals. It is not possible. Kṛṣṇa says, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yogamāyā-samā... (BG 7.25).

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

So if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then we have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Kṛṣṇa says. And Kṛṣṇa says, bhakto 'si priyo 'si rahasyam etad uttamam (BG 4.3). Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, "This science of God, Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣṇa-tattva..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said: yei kṛṣṇa-tattva vetta sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). Guru does not become. Guru is not so cheap thing. One must know what is kṛṣṇa-tattva. One must know what is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says also,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

Nobody knows Kṛṣṇa. They may speculate by their so-called scholarship, A-B-C-D knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not there. They cannot turn even a single man to become a Kṛṣṇa devotee. That is not possible. They can befool. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The..., one who is not devotee, he is described as a paśuḥ, as an animal. And such animal is eulogized, glorified, by another animal. What are they? Now, dogs, camels, asses and hogs. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. These description is there.

Therefore if we want to understand Kṛṣṇa, we have to follow these mahājana, just like Brahmā. Brahmā is the original. There are... Who is mahājana? Mahājana. In India, a mahājana is accepted who can give you loan, money. He's called mahājana. Not that, that all... It is, it is a perverted word. But mahājana means a..., one who is pure devotee of the Lord. Mahātmā means who is pure devotee of the Lord. Sādhu means who is a devotee—not these street beggars. Sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ samyag vyavasito hi... (BG 9.30). Who are they, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ?

api cet su-durācāro
bhajate mām ananya-bhāk
sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ...
(BG 9.30)

He's sādhu. Even if we find some discrepancies in the life of a devotee... Just like these Europeans, Americans. They're devotee. They are pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How? They have no other desire. They simply want to satisfy their spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are pure devotee. They have no other business. They have sacrificed everything. They are coming from rich family, rich nation, educated, everything. There is no scarcity in their country. Everything's complete. But still, for Kṛṣṇa they have forsaken everything. That is pure devotion.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanam bhaktir uttamām
(Brs. 1.1.11)

Those who are trying to catch up here something, catch up here something, they have been described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu as khaḍajāṭhiyā beṭā. Khaḍajāṭhiyā beṭā. The khaḍajāṭhiyā... One, one of the devotee of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Mukunda, he was very, I mean, confidential devotee. His class friend also, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. So he was going sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes here, sometimes there.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very angry upon him and gave him the title khaḍajāṭhiyā beṭā. Khaḍajāṭhiyā beṭā. "Don't allow him to come here." He became so strict. So he was very sorry: "Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said not to come in His meeting." So he was asking other devotees that "I shall not be allowed?" So, "We can..., how we can allow you? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden." "So will you ask if there will be any time so that I can again come back?"

So some devotee inquired from Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "Mukunda is very sorry. You asked not to come. But he's asking whether there will be any day in future when he'll be allowed to come again." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "After three thousands of births. After three thousands of births, he'll be allowed to come in." So when Mukunda inquired, "Did you inquire from Caitanya Mahāprabhu this question?" he said, "Yes, but He has said after your three thousands of repeated births, you'll be allowed." So he began to dance. He began to dance: "Oh, then I'll be allowed some day. Never mind, three thousand births. Never mind three thousand births." So when this, this, this was informed to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He's dancing now because You have..., You'll allow him to come in after three thousands of births," so Caitanya Mahāprabhu became very pleased and asked him to bring him immediately. (laughter)

So if we want to actually learn this... Just like there must be eka niṣṭha. Bhajanti mām ananya-bhāk. That is the qualification. (break) ...Kṛṣṇa. If you want to know Kṛṣṇa, it is very easy. Don't divert your attention to anything. "No, I, I worship this demigod, I worship that demigod, I..." Then your knowledge is gone. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Anya-devatāḥ: "other demigods." Devatāḥ is Kṛṣṇa, but others, they're demigods.

ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtya
yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya
(CC Adi 5.142)

God is one, Kṛṣṇa. Ekam evādvitīyam. All others, they are servants. This is our conclusion. This is śāstric conclusion. Eka brahma dvitīya... Brahman cannot be two. Param-brahman. Paraṁ brahma paramaṁ bhavān. Therefore Arjuna has addressed Him as bhavān, "Yourself." Not that "You have got many competitors." Just like we are, we find nowadays, in one street another God, another God; in another street, another God; another street, or another city. There are so many Gods. No. God is one. Ekam eva advitīya. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).

So this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we want to learn about Kṛṣṇa, then we have to follow the path of mahājanas, great personalities. Just like Brahmā is presenting Brahma-saṁhitā, describing; Vyāsadeva is presenting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Bhagavān, Himself, is describing Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. So where is the difficulty to understand Bhagavad-gītā or Bhagavān? We don't find any difficulty. Where is the difficulty?

The mahājana is there, the śāstra is there, the guru is there, the Veda is there. And why should we make research after God? What is this nonsense? Everything is there. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). The purpose of Vedas is to know Kṛṣṇa. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about Brahman. Brahman. So there is no need of searching out God. You can simply try to digest whatever is already there. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. All the ācāryas, they have accepted. They have written commentation on Bhagavad-gītā with reference to the Vedic knowledge. The Absolute—kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam—is accepted everywhere, by all ācāryas. Why you are searching after God? I do not know.

So this Bhagavad-gītā and this Brahma-saṁhitā, and the description is about Kṛṣṇa and His abode:

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.33)

Advaita. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam. He has got ananta-rūpam. There is no limit, He has got so many. Because each..., in each and every brahmāṇḍa there is Kṛṣṇa avatāra. Kṛṣṇa avatāra... Just like in this brahmāṇḍa there was Kṛṣṇa avatāra in..., five thousand years ago, similarly Kṛṣṇa avatāra is going on just like... The same example as I have given you many times, that the sun, sun, sun planet is there in the sky, but sun is visible when he is in our front. Otherwise sun is there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there, but when He descends, incarnates, He becomes visible to us, exactly like the sun. At the present moment, it is night. Sun is not visible. But in due course of time, say after eight hours or ten hours, in the morning, the sun will be visible.

Similarly, there is scheduled time when Kṛṣṇa becomes visible on this planet, on this universe. And there are, there are innumerable universes. They..., therefore He's called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means eternal pastime. Kṛṣṇa is born as Yaśodā..., Devakī-nandana. Immediately He begins to grow. But that birth is taking another planet, another universe. Just like six-thirty, sunshine, it is now visible on this planet, or on this city; but again six-thirty, again, in another city, six-thirty in another city, six-thirty another city. It is not very difficult to understand. That six-thirty's continued. That seven-thirty's continued. That eight-thirty's continued. Every minute and second is continued. Simply you have to know where it is. You immediately try to know by phoning the other city, other, on the other country, you'll know that this six-thirty or seven-thirty or twelve-thirty or the set-up or rising of the sun is continually going on, here or there.

Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's appearance, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, everything is continually going on: sometimes in this universe, sometimes in another universe, sometimes another universe. In this way it is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's līlā is called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā, eternal. It is not that for the time being Kṛṣṇa appeared. That nitya-līlā, as we have seen within this planet, Kṛṣṇa, that will come again. Just like we saw the sun in the daytime. Now it is not visible, but in due course of time, again we shall see; next morning we shall see sun. Similarly, we shall see again Kṛṣṇa, and that rotation takes place according to Vedic calculation after forty-three crores of years. That is the explanation we get from Vedic śāstra.

So Kṛṣṇa's līlā, it is not an invented, we are worshiping Kṛṣṇa as something imaginary, some artistic picture. No. It is nitya-līlā. Kṛṣṇa is fact. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. He's ādi. Advaitam acyutam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣam. Purāṇa-puruṣam: the oldest man. Purāṇa means oldest. Oldest, purāṇa-puruṣam. Puruṣam means person. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. But whenever you'll see Kṛṣṇa, He's just a perfect young boy, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. You'll never see Kṛṣṇa's picture as He has become old, He has grown some big, big beard and... No. Kṛṣṇa, you'll never see. Kṛṣṇa is just like a twenty-years-old young boy. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau (Bs. 5.33). He is not to be found in the Vedas. There is, but we miss. In the Ṛg Veda, in the Atharva Veda, Kṛṣṇa is there. Vedeṣu durla...

But the ordinary man cannot find. Just like the people, they're reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. There are so many people, they are very proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā daily, but they do not understand Kṛṣṇa. The only thing is, they're missing Kṛṣṇa. Except Kṛṣṇa, all rubbish thing they are talking. This is their vision. Because vedeṣu durlabha. For the rubbish person, rascal person, Kṛṣṇa is durlabha. Adurlabha ātma-bhaktau. But Kṛṣṇa is available. Kṛṣṇa has to be seen from the Kṛṣṇa's devotee, not from others. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am again explaining to you this Bhagavad-gītā because bhakto 'si priyo 'si rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam (BG 4.3). There is a very nice mystery in this Bhagavad-gītā, and that will be understood by you because you are My devotee. You are My very dear." So in order to understand Kṛṣṇa, one has to first of all become a great devotee, dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. Then he can understand. Otherwise, vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau (Bs. 5.33).

So this Brahma-saṁhitā describes about Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā is mahājana. I've already told you: mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). So in the śāstras, twelve mahājanas are accepted:

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
(SB 6.3.20)

This was explained by Yamarāja to his servants, that these are mahājanas. Who? Svayambhūr, Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ. And śambhuḥ, Lord Śiva. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ kumāraḥ. The Kumāras, the four Kumāras; Kapila, Kapiladeva, Lord Kapila. Manu, Svāyambhuva Manu. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, accepted this: imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhur (BG 4.1). This Manu. So in this way, we have to approach the right person, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), who is coming in the line of Brahmā, who is coming in the line of Lord Śiva, in the line of Nārada.

In this way, we have to accept a guru from the disciplic succession, which is called paramparā, guru-paramparā. Then we can understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise not. Now so many people are explaining Bhagavad-gītā. If you ask him, "Who is your guru?" he has no guru. He's himself guru. So you..., what he can understand, Bhagavad-gītā? It is not possible. So try to understand Bhagavad-gītā from the bona fide person and follow the principles, rules and regulation, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Your life will be successful.

Thank you very much.

(break) ...for persons who are too much bodily concept. One who is thinking that "I am this body," for him, this yoga system is prescribed, so that he can control the senses. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. By controlling the senses... Because we are disturbed by our senses. So there is process, how to come to the platform of prāṇāyāma. You have to find out a secluded place, and you should sit down there alone in perpendicular stature; you cannot close your eyes fully—half—then you'll have to see the tip of the nose. In this way, you have to concentrate your mind on Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. This is prāṇāyāma. So... But actually when one becomes already attracted to Kṛṣṇa by devotional service, then the prāṇāyāma process is already there. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
mad-gata antarātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
(BG 6.47)

The real fact is to concentrate your mind upon Kṛṣṇa.

So these boys, they have been trained up. This ārotik, this arcana, this distribution of literature, reading Kṛṣṇa books, hearing about Kṛṣṇa—that means they are not allowed to think anything else except Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect. They are... The prāṇāyāma process, you can do it for one hour, two hour or, say, one day, two days, but this, this prāṇāyāma process, who are always engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is natural. You cannot think. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor (SB 9.4.18). If you simply engage your mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, that is perpetual prāṇāyāma. Not for one hour, two hour or a minute.

Indian reporter: But as some yogīs say that...

Prabhupāda: Some yogī may say whatever he likes, but what Kṛṣṇa says, we have to accept.

Indian reporter: In the modern..., in the modern terminology, they say this, this technique of prāṇāyāma...

Prabhupāda: But the modern terminology, that is not..., that is not a principle.

Indian reporter: No, but they say it is a rocket way to God.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian reporter: They say it is a rocket way to God, doing prāṇāyāma.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A rocket, rocket ship way to God.

Indian reporter: Rocket.

Prabhupāda: But we don't find so long yogīs and prāṇāyāma-wallas know anything about God. We have tested so many. They remain the same rascal. I have seen it. They do not... Ask him, any yogīs, "What do you know about God?" Ask him. You can ask. You are press reporter. You can ask, "What do you know about God? Describe Him." So what is the rocket? Rocket means you should do immediately. But if you do not know, then what is the use of this rocket? If you do not know what is God, then what is the use of this rocket? Just like they are going to the rocket planet, moon planet.

Now the American government stopped announcing this rascaldom. You know that? Yes. So if you actually have got rocket, then you must approach that you must know the thing. But simply waste your money and come back... So any sensible man will not allow this. This is good, prāṇāyāma. Rocket process, it may be. But we don't think that it is rocket process at the present age. Because in the śāstras it is said:

kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ
tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ
dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ
kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt
(SB 12.3.52)

Indian reporter: No, they compare it to rocket only because of the two stages that a rocket has to drop. They say by doing prāṇāyāma you'll drop material stages, that you...

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but we have to see practically what he has become. Simply talking will not do.

Indian reporter: Talking. Talking won't do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply talking will not do. That, that... Just, these boys, they did not practice prāṇāyāma system, but bring anyone who knows about God better than him. Bring anyone. Any yogīs, bring, and talk with them. They are neophytes. They are simply practicing three or four years. And talk with them. And what he knows about, he knows it will be proved. That is not rocket system. This is rocket system: Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. (laughter) That is not possible.

That he cannot find out a secluded place to practice yoga. Where is secluded place in the city? Whole day and night, these cars are going and there is huge sound. Where is secluded place? And, and it is recommended in Bhagavad-gītā, secluded place and sacred place. And he should remain alone. Where is such yogī? Find out. Where is such yogī? He should remain alone, and in a secluded place and a sacred place. And he should not change his āsana. Then he becomes a yogī. These are the preliminary things. But who is practicing these preliminary even? They cannot. Especially in the cities, there are so many yoga societies, but in the..., it is stated that it should be practiced in a secluded place. So how it is possible in the city? So if you follow the instruction, it will be very difficult. It is very difficult.

Indian reporter: For a city-dweller.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not only difficult for us, but five thousand years ago, Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa face to face. Such a exalted personality, and he was a kṣatriya. He said, "Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible to practice this." He said. We have become more than Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna? Do you think? He said. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Eh?

Devotee: Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda:

...kṛṣṇa
pramāthi balavad dṛḍham
tasyāhaṁ nigrahaṁ manye
vāyor iva su-duṣkaram
(BG 6.34)

"Oh, it is not possible." He was frank enough gentleman. "Oh, this is not possible. This is not possible." And these foolish persons, because they want to cheat others, they cheat themselves, they cheat others, they follow this system. It is not possible. It is not possible, frankly speaking. Do we think we are better than Arjuna?

Devotee: In Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna's called Guḍākeśa, or one who has conquered sleep.

Prabhupāda: So this yoga process is there, but it is very, very difficult. Very, very difficult, especially in this age. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇu (SB 12.3.52). The dhyāyato viṣṇu, that is yoga system. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yoginaḥ, being absorbed in meditation, they see. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. Mind, being absorbed in the Supreme, they can see. Yaṁ paśyanti yoginaḥ. The yogī sees. That is samādhi. That is... Prāṇāyāma, of course, they controlling the breathing. So these things are very difficult in this age. Therefore śāstra says,

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
(CC Adi 17.21)

Three times. When we stress upon some important point, we say three times, "Do it, do it, do it!" It is like that. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. So yoga practice is approved process, but it requires long, long period time, and the time is not at all suitable in this age. And persons are differently cultured. They are eating everything, they are drinking everything, smoking. And it is not possible. It is not possible. Simply childish. It is not possible. And you can see practically. Just like I have given the example. Bring any so-called yogī, mystic practitioner...

Indian reporter: As you, yourself, have said: What is talking? What is lies?

Prabhupāda: What is the use of that persons? Here, the mass of people take. All over the world. Suppose if there is some process, if..., and one percent of the whole population, what is the use of such process? So that is very important thing. That is important process also, but it is not possible to be practiced by the present age. This is... (break) ...become purified, you understand that Kṛṣṇa is present on your tongue. (break) ...waterpot, you put it in the water. So long it is not filled up, it will make some sound. And when it is filled up and goes down, down to hell, then there is no cut-cut-cut.

Indian reporter: Then, as you say...

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) ... that your, this so-called talk will not help you. But that does not mean that in the spiritual life there is no talk. But Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is spirit. So why He's talking Bhagavad-gītā? What is... What do you think of Kṛṣṇa's talking? (break) ...nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇa. Nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇa..., rasa-vigraha, caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ.

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
(CC Madhya 17.133)

This is nāma. Abhinnatvād nāma-nāminoḥ. There is no difference between the name and the person. Here, in this material world, there is difference between the name and the thing. Just like if I want water, if I simply chant "water, water, water..." Sometimes some rascals, these, give the example that if we chant "Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola, Coca-Cola..." (laughter) It is not like that. They do not know, and they, they, they dare to explain this nāma. Such a rascal they are. They do not know what is name. Here is a description of the name: nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś caitanya-rasa-vi... This is caitanya. This is not dead stone. This body is dead stone. Caitanya means the living force. That is caitanya. So nāma is caitanya.

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
(CC Madhya 17.133)

This name is not ordinary name. This is absolute.

Indian reporter: How is that they say that in some of the mantras they are śata cakras and all that?

Prabhupāda: Hmmh?

Indian reporter: Some of the mantras...

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have nothing to do with cakra. These cakras are concerned who are in the bodily concept of life. The bhaktas, they do not accept that "I am body." The śata cakra is concerned with this body, not with the soul. Yes. So these, the yoga process is prescribed for them who are too much in con..., bodily concept of life. Otherwise, those who are spiritually advanced, they're..., they do not have to practice this yoga. This, simply name, if we follow... Actually, practically, you see. You practically see that all over the world, these boys, how they're advancing simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

So this is fact. It is not imagination. How they're advancing, how they're becoming... Now, sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam, to make zero (CC Madhya 19.170). They've made everything zero. They don't consider that they're Americans. Yes. They don't consider that "I am this body. I have to eat flesh, meat and wine; therefore my body will be maintained." They never think like that. This is mukti. Simply talking will not do. Practically. "I practice yoga, and immediately my throat has become dried. Please give me cigarette. Please give me." There are so many. I have seen.

Indian reporter: So they are not yogīs.

Prabhupāda: You will find, if you analyze, you'll find so many. They're, at least, they smoke gañjā. There are so many yogīs, I have seen, they smoke gañjā. You have not seen? Gañjā-smoker yogīs?

Indian reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (2): Number of them.

Prabhupāda: Number of them. I do not know how you have studied. So many rascals, smoking gañjā and talking of yoga.

Devotee: Drinking tea.

Prabhupāda: Taking tea, that is common affair. Big, big jug, tea.

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So see practically. Simply talking will not help. Practically see how this system is perfect. Thousands and thousands; not only one, two. If you travel all over the world and see our temples, you'll find in each and every temple, two hundred, hundred and fifty, fifty—all devotees. All these boys and girls, nice. They, their countrymen, astonished. They ask them, "Are you American?" They ask them. How this transformation has come into existence?

nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
(CC Madhya 17.133)

It is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. So by chanting "Kṛṣṇa" means they are associating Kṛṣṇa directly. There is no question of śata cakra or this cakra. No. It is direct contact with Kṛṣṇa. And if one is in direct contact with Kṛṣṇa, what other method does he require? Everything is... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim. If you are in direct touch with Kṛṣṇa, then where is the necessity of other tapasya? Everything is finished.

Your ultimate goal is obtained. And nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim: and if you could not touch Kṛṣṇa, then where is this nonsense, yoga and jñāna? They're useless. You could not touch Kṛṣṇa. These things are... Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tathā kim (Nārada Pañcarātra).

Indian reporter: And that is why He's called Yogeśvara.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are in touch with the Yogeśvara, then your all austerities, penances, finished. Now you enjoy life with Yogeśvara. That is the position of the devotees. Ānandamaya...

ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis
tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ
goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ...
(Bs. 5.37)

This is a great science. So we have described all this in our books. They are reading, and public is very much appreciating.

All right. (end)