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710324 - Lecture CC Madhya 20.137-146 - Bombay

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

710324CC-BOMBAY - March 24, 1971 - 50:45 Minutes

Haṁsadūta: The following lecture was recorded in the evening, 24th March, 1971, at Akash Ganga, Bombay.


. . . na sāṅkhyaṁ dharma uddhava
na svādhyāyas tapas tyāgo
yathā bhaktir mamorjitā
(CC Adi 17.76)

We have explained this verse yesterday, that in order to approach the Supreme Personality of Godhead, bhakti, devotional service, is required. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55): "Simply through devotional service one can understand Me." Not through knowledge, not through fruitive activities.

There are various types of men. The lowest stage is the karmī. Karmīs means those who are working very hard for sense gratification. They are called karmīs. And the next stage is the jñānī. Wiser than the karmīs, they try to realize the value of life, what is the value of life. Not that blindly, simply working hard day and night.

Actually, human form of life is not meant for that purpose, to work so hard. Because the animals . . . our tendency is also . . . therefore the capitalists and the laborer class are there. Actually, we do not want to work hard. That is our tendency. But we want more profit for sense gratification. Therefore we utilize others' service, who will work for me, and I shall take the profit. This is the defect of modern civilization.

Actually, my tendency is . . . just like when a man gets some money, he does not work very much. He takes some profit, either keeping in the bank some balance, and lives in a comfortable place. That is the tendency. Because we are spiritual entities, our natural tendency is to enjoy life. Spiritual entities means by nature, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12); by nature, they want to enjoy life.

Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. That is the spiritual nature. As Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is by nature joyful, similarly, we being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we are also by nature joyful. But unfortunately, we have been put into such condition, material condition, that we are trying to enjoy life in this material condition. That is not possible.

So karmīs, they are trying their best to make material adjustments and enjoy life. They are called karmīs. But when they are wiser, that "We have worked so hard, but actually we could not enjoy life. Then what is the problem of life?" that is the platform of the jñānīs and the yogīs.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that these karmīs, the jñānīs . . . in another place, in His instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī, He has said that in the human society there are different kinds of people. Out of that, those who are followers of the Vedic civilization, they are supposed to be first-class human being. So out of the followers of Vedic civilization, mostly they say that, "We are followers of Vedic civilization," but actually they do not do. Actually, they, I mean to say, indulge in anything which is not sanctioned by the Vedic knowledge or Vedic scriptures.

Take, for example, that in our Vedic civilization, these four things are prohibited: illicit sex life, animal-killing, intoxication and gambling. This is the preliminary understanding. Especially those who are higher caste—brāhmin, kṣatriya, vaiśya—they are strictly forbidden. That is the Vedic injunction. But although we pose ourself followers of Vedic injunction, we indulge in these things.

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says: "Most people, they call themselves as followers of Vedic civilization, but actually they do not obey all the rules and regulations." Then again He says that "Persons who are actually trying to follow the Vedic rules and regulations, mostly they are karmīs." Karmīs means they are attracted by the ritualistic ceremonies, just like performing great sacrifices, yajña, for elevating oneself to the higher planetary system.

They are called karmīs. "And above them," He says: "out of many thousands of karmīs, one person is jñānī or yogī. So out of many such jñānīs, one person may be a mukta, or liberated soul. And out of many thousands of liberated souls, there may be one devotee of Kṛṣṇa." That is the division Caitanya Mahāprabhu makes.

Therefore, to become a person Kṛṣṇa conscious, a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, from the systematic way, it is very difficult. But by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa Himself, He has made the path very easy. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not very easy task. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Therefore Kṛṣṇa says:

bhaktyāham ekayā grāhyaḥ
śraddhayātmā priyaḥ satām
bhaktiḥ punāti man-niṣṭhā
śva-pākān api sambhavāt
(SB 11.14.21)

Simply by devotional service one becomes purified, even he is born in the family of the dog-eaters. That is the Vedic version. Caitanya Mahāprabhu quotes from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Ataeva bhakti kṛṣṇa prāptyera (CC Madhya 20.139). Therefore He concludes that "If you want at all Kṛṣṇa . . ." Kṛṣṇa . . . we should, everyone should want Kṛṣṇa. Because as soon as we get Kṛṣṇa . . . yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ (BG 6.22). If actually we get Kṛṣṇa, then we shall not consider any other profit more valuable than Kṛṣṇa.

Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja went to practice yoga in the forest, Madhuvana. The idea was to get the kingdom of his father. Now, actually when he saw Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu . . . the picture is here, you can see. Actually when he saw by severe austerities and penances, a small boy, five-years-old boy, then he said: "My dear Lord, now when You offer benediction that 'You take whatever benediction you want, you take from Me,' " he said, svamin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). That is the process. If one gets Kṛṣṇa, he thinks that no more any other benediction is required. He becomes fully satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "I am fully satisfied." Therefore we find a kṛṣṇa-bhakta is always satisfied, because he has no demand.

In other place Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta (CC Madhya 19.149). So long you have got demands to fulfill your desires, you cannot be happy. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta has no demand. They do not demand that "Kṛṣṇa, favor me in this way or that way." No. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). They are completely free from demanding anything from Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa . . . pure devotee. Kṛṣṇa bhakta niṣkāma ataeva śānta. Therefore they are pacified, they are peaceful.

And bhukti mukti siddhi kāmī sakali aśānta. Bhukti means these karmīs, they want elevated life of sense gratification, bhukti. That is called bhukti. From bhoga, bhukti. Bhukti or mukti, liberation. They are also not, I mean to say, peaceful because they are making sādhana, austerities, penances, to get liberation. There is demand, that "I shall be liberated." So there is demand.

So the karmīs, they have also demand; the jñānīs, they have also demand; and the yogīs, they have also demand because they want siddhi, eight kinds of siddhi: aṇimā, laghimā . . . a yogī can become very light. They can become . . . they can become the smallest. Such siddhis, such mystic powers, they can attain. So they have also demand. They are trying to get some material perfection. Just like flying in the sky or walking on the water—these things are very wonderful, and people are very much amazed. If you can walk on the water, so many followers you will get immediately. That is a wonderful thing for common man.

So the yogīs want these mystic power. Therefore they have also demand. Muktīs, the jñānīs, they have also demand; the karmīs also have the demand. But the bhaktas . . . just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We accept Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the ideal bhakta. He's teaching us how to become exceptionally perfect devotee. So He says in His Śikṣāṣṭaka:

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ
kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye
(CC Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4)

"I do not want riches," na dhanam. Na janam, "I do not want number of followers." Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye. "I do not want very beautiful, nice, poetic wife." Mama janmani janmanīśvare. Janmani janmani means He does not want even liberation, because when there is liberation, there is no question of janmani janmani. So He says, mama janmani janmani īśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi.

So this is the sample of pure devotee. A pure devotee does not want even liberation. Dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṇanti (SB 3.29.13). If liberation is offered to a devotee, he does not want it. He'll refuse to accept it. He is satisfied only in the service of the Lord. That is the standard of satisfac . . . or in other words, to a devotee, liberation is not very valuable thing. Just like our one devotee, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī . . . no, Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. He says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pūr ākāśa-puṣpāyate (Caitanya-candrāmṛta 5). Like that. So devotee's position is very sublime. Devotee's position is the most exalted, transcendental position of a pure devotee who does not want anything except Kṛṣṇa.

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama
(Brs. 1.1.11)

That is. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ataeva bhakti kṛṣṇa prāptyera. The conclusion is that if you want Kṛṣṇa, then you have to take the path of devotional service. That will help you. And that bhakti is technically known as abhidheya. That is the technical, abhidheya. Abhidheya means discharging one's duty. That is abhidheya. Or the performance of the means by which one can reach the ultimate goal of life. That is called abhidheya.

dhana pāile yaiche sukha bhoga phala pāya
sukha-bhoga haite duḥkha āpani palāya
taiche bhakti-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya
preme kṛṣṇāsvāda haile bhava nāśa pāya
(CC Madhya 20.140-41)

He says that: "If a poor man gets some money, not only he becomes happy, but the symptoms of his poverty is also immediately vanquished." Just like a poor man gets, say, ten lakhs of rupees. Immediately he'll have a nice bungalow, he'll have two, three cars, and so many other opulences. So simultaneously, the distress out of his poverty-stricken life is also vanquished, and there are symptoms of sukha, symptoms of happiness. We suppose like that. If a man has got a car, we think he's very happy. But this is a symptom of happiness. A poor man cannot get a car, but a rich man cannot get . . . if one has got a car, it is understood that he is rich man.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that automatically the symptoms of happiness come unto him, and his distress of material condition simultaneously becomes vanquished if one is elevated to the position of devotional service. That is the test. That is the test of how one is advanced in devotional service. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (SB 11.2.42). He is no more interested in material happiness. He is fully satisfied with Kṛṣṇa.

Taiche bhakti-phale kṛṣṇe prema upajaya. Kṛṣṇa bhakti-phale. These, by the, as a result of kṛṣṇa-bhakti, devotional service . . . the same devotional service for the neophyte and the same devotional service for the advanced devotee, but the advanced devotee enjoys life, but the neophyte devotee simply practices. That is the difference. Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives the example, just like mango.

The mango remains the same, but in the unripe stage the taste is little different, whereas in the ripened stage the taste is different. So bhakti in the beginning maybe tastes a little pungent. One may feel very inconvenient to discharge devotional service according to the rules and regulation of the śāstra. But when he is advanced, the same service will appear to be very palatable, very relishable.

yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
yasmin sthite guruṇāpi
duḥkhena na vicālyate
(BG 6.22)

So devotional service . . . because it is transcendental, pure, spiritual, and we are, every one of us, hankering after to be elevated to the spiritual stage of life because we are all spiritual entities. The same example, as I have repeatedly explained, that if you take a fish out of the water, however you may keep comfortably on the land, it will never be happy unless and until it is again thrown in the water.

Similarly, we are all spiritual sparks, part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). So however we may try to make ourself happy by material adjustment, it is not possible. We must turn to the spiritual life, or devotional . . . spiritual life means devotional service. That is real spiritual life.

As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ ca vyabhicāriṇi-bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate: "One who is engaged in bhakti-yoga service," sa guṇan samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26), "he's already in the Brahman stage." People cannot understand how bhakti is on the Brahman platform. But here the Lord Himself says, brahma-bhūyāya kalpate.

dāridrya-nāśa bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' nay
prema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya
(CC Madhya 20.142)

So when one is elevated in the platform of devotional service, it is not that he gets some material happiness, that is the result. No. Material happiness automatically comes to him. Material happiness . . . a devotee is not bereft of material happiness. Automatically comes to him. So that is not the ultimate goal of a devotee's life. A devotee's ultimate goal of life—how he becomes, I mean to say, a lover of the Supreme Lord.

The example are the gopīs, or the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana. They had no other desire. They simply wanted to love Kṛṣṇa. They wanted to see Kṛṣṇa very happy. That feeling of happiness, that thinking of Kṛṣṇa, that is the highest perfection of life. Always, constantly thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That was their happiness. They do not . . . they did not try to derive any material happiness by loving Kṛṣṇa. There was no such thing. That is pure love . . . (indistinct)

dāridrya-nāśa bhava-kṣaya-premera 'phala' naya
prema-sukha-bhoga-mukhya prayojana haya
(CC Madhya 20.142)

So we should be trying for that position when we shall relish what is the position by loving Kṛṣṇa, by loving God.

veda-śāstre kahe sambandha abhidheya prayojana
kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa-bhakti prema-tina mahā-dhana
(CC Madhya 20.143)

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu concludes again that we are after dhana. Dhana are riches. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Kṛṣṇa and kṛṣṇa-bhakti, devotional service, and love of Kṛṣṇa, these three items are the topmost riches of our life.

vedādi sakala śāstre kṛṣṇa-mukhya sambandha
tāṅra jñāne ānuṣaṅge yāya māyā-bandha
(CC Madhya 20.144)

Caitanya Mahāprabhu further says that the purpose of studying Vedas means to understand Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as one understands Kṛṣṇa, automatically the tinges of māyā, the influence of māyā, automatically becomes vanquished. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam . . . er, Bhagavad-gītā, that:

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī
mama māyā duratyayā
mām eva ye prapadyante
māyām etāṁ taranti (te)
(BG 7.14)

"It is very difficult to surmount the stringent laws of material nature, but anyone who surrenders unto Me, very easily, automatically, simultaneously he becomes freed from the contamination of māyā."

mukhya-gauṇa-vṛtti, kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke
vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake
(CC Madhya 20.146)

Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Directly or indirectly, whichever Vedic literature you study, you'll find that the aim is to understand Kṛṣṇa." When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was preaching, He proved that in the Koran there is Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. When He was coming back from Vṛndāvana, at a place . . . it is known as Soro. Perhaps you know, Soro. That is a holy place, Soro. Still, people go there. There is a nice place, Soro. So there Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was chanting and dancing, He sometimes fainted. So in the course of His chanting and dancing, when He fainted, then His personal assistants, they were treating Him.

So one batch of soldiers, Moghul, Pathan soldiers, were passing that way. So the chief of the soldiers, of the army, they were surprised, that "How is that? One man is lying unconscious, and others are treating him. This must have been . . . this man must have been poisoned by these men." So they came down, because they were government men, they came down and challenged all these men that "You have given this man some drug so that he's fainted, and you wanted to plunder him. So we arrest you." Then they said, "No, sir. We have not done anything such. He faints like that while chanting. Now He'll be . . . very soon He'll get up, because we are also chanting. Hearing, hearing, He will get up."

So in this way, when He came to His consciousness, the Muslims, these Pathan soldiers, they were very happy to see Him. So there was a Mullah. So he talked with Him. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu—I am summarizing the story—this story is very big—He talked with that Mullah, and He proved from the Koran that there is Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti, there is hint of Kṛṣṇa-bhakti.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says here also that indirectly . . . when I speak of Kṛṣṇa, you should know, Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You may call Him by any other name; that is a different thing. But Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said:

mukhya-gauṇa-vṛtti kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke
vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake
(CC Madhya 20.146)

You take any literature, any Vedic literature, religious literature, you'll find that the whole literature, whole knowledge, is aiming at Kṛṣṇa. That is the purport of all Vedas and religious scripture.

kṛṣṇera svarūpa-ananta vaibhava-apāra
cic-chakti māyā-śakti jīva-śakti āra
(CC Madhya 20.149)

Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu is explaining what is the identification of Kṛṣṇa. In the beginning He says, kṛṣṇera svarūpa ananta. Kṛṣṇa has form, svarūpa. Kṛṣṇa is not formless, but He has got many millions of forms. Not one form, many millions of forms. But He has form. He is not impersonal. Kṛṣṇera svarūpa ananta. Ananta means unlimited. That is also confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.33)

The Brahma-saṁhitā says that advaita acyuta. Advaita means although Kṛṣṇa has many forms, many expansions, still, they are one. There is no duality. Just like Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, They are one. They are not different. Similarly, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). Beginning from Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, He has got innumerable forms. Tiṣṭhan: He is existing always with all these forms, expansions, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā.

Just like Kṛṣṇa existing in everyone's heart. There are millions and trillions of living entities. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa is existing. That is Kṛṣṇa's omnipotency. If you do not try to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa, with inconceivable omnipotency, then you cannot understand God. That is not possible.

So Kṛṣṇa . . . just like we are sitting here; we are not sitting in the other room. But Kṛṣṇa can sit in innumerable rooms simultaneously at one time. Therefore He is all-pervading. Just like Kṛṣṇa married 16,108 wives. Nārada came to see Kṛṣṇa, and every palace he entered he saw Kṛṣṇa was there. And with some wife, in some wife's palace He is playing with children, or some wife's He's just taking bath. Or in another palace He was playing chess. In this way he differently saw Kṛṣṇa in different palaces. So in 16,000 palaces he saw Kṛṣṇa.

That is Kṛṣṇa. Not that He married 16,000 wives but He remained one. He also expanded Himself sixteen hundred times. That is Kṛṣṇa. He can expand Himself. Rāsa-līlā . . . rāsa-līlā, every gopī was feeling that "Kṛṣṇa is dancing with me." So many gopīs. That is Kṛṣṇa. He can expand. But He has got form. He is not formless. The Māyāvādī philosopher thinks because Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading, therefore He has no form. No. That is not fact. He has form, but His form is not like your form and my form.

This form is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam (Bs. 5.33). Acyuta. And He does not fall down. Acyuta means thing which does not fall down. So just like we are, we are living entities, we fall down in the clutches of māyā. But Kṛṣṇa does not fall down. The Māyāvādī philosophers mistake that. They think that as we come to this material world with a material body, similarly, Kṛṣṇa also comes with a material body. No. That is not the fact. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā manuṣīṁ tanum āśritāḥ (BG 9.11). Mūḍha. Mūḍha means those who are not intelligent: "They think that I am also ordinary man."

Therefore there is controversy: "Why I shall worship Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa cannot . . . the Supreme Lord cannot come in this way, just like ordinary man, and making friendship with Arjuna and driving his chariot, or dancing with the gopīs." They cannot conceive. They cannot accommodate within their tiny brain that Kṛṣṇa is so powerful, He's so . . . we say that Kṛṣṇa, God, is all-powerful, God is all omnipotent, but when God shows actually that He's omnipotent, all-powerful, they do not believe. That is their defect. But the manifestation which Kṛṣṇa showed when He was actually present, He's the Supreme Lord.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
ṣaṇṇāṁ bhaga itīṅganā
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

He fully manifested, or demonstrated, the six opulences of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "There is no other supreme power or supreme personality than Myself."

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing. What Kṛṣṇa has said in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is spoken about Kṛṣṇa in all the Vedic literature, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says the same thing in His teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī.

So we shall discuss further. Thank you very much.

Guest: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that? Mecca?

Guest: Mecca, Madīnah. Muslims udhar me . . . (indistinct) . . . (Mecca, Medina. There Muslims . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: As you have got pilgrimage, everyone has got pilgrimage. Muslims have got, Christians they have got, Hindus they have got. That means they go to pilgrimage with God consciousness. So in Koran there is God consciousness, in Bible there is God consciousness, in Vedas God consciousness. Now you have to utilize it, develop it. The aim and objective is already there. But in the Vedic literature they are very explicitly presented. That is the difference. The Christians, they agree, "God is great." We also agree, "God is great." But how God is great, that is explained in the Vedic literature. That is the difference between.

There is no difference of opinion if one is actually religious. "God created this world," "God is the supreme father," "God is great," this is accepted by everyone, either Hindu or Muslim or Christian. There is no doubt about it. But in the Vedic literature you'll understand how God is great, how He is acting as father. That's all. Even God's name is there, God's address is there. Do you agree to this point? Yes. That is the difference. Any other scriptures, if you ask what is the name of God, what is His address, what He is doing, they cannot give you. But we can give.

We do not give; God Himself gives, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says: "My address is like this." What is that? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is address. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). God is giving address. We have to note down. And His name is Kṛṣṇa.

You'll find Vyāsadeva is writing, śrī bhagavān uvāca, "the Supreme Personality of Godhead speaking, or Kṛṣṇa." And in the śāstras there is list of incarnation of God. And Vyāsadeva concludes: ete cāṁśa kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28): "All the list, comprehending list, they are either part or part of the part of God. But the name Kṛṣṇa," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, "He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Similarly, in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
(Bs. 5.1)

Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. And Kṛṣṇa also says, mattaḥ parataraṁ kiñcid asti, kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. "There is no more." Everyone is cause. You are . . . you are . . . your cause . . . your cause for appearance is your father. The cause of your father's appearance is his father. You go on—father, father, father, father—you reach Brahmā, who is called the supreme forefather. Then Brahmā is also born of Viṣṇu, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And the Garbhodakaśayī is also appeared from Kāraṇodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. In this way, go on, go on. And Saṅkarṣaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Pradyumna, Aniruddha—there are so many. And at last you reach Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes.

So Kṛṣṇa's name is there, God's name is there, God's address is there, and how to reach God, the process is there. Then why you'll not utilize this? What is the reason? Why you say, "Can you show me God? Is there any God?" Why do you say like this? What is the reason? Everything, information, is there, and still you say, "Can you show me God?" "Who is God?" "There is no God," "God is dead." Why do you talk like that? If you say that "How we can understand that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord?" then you have to approach authorities. Just like if you want to purchase some diamonds, you cannot understand whether it is diamond, but you go to a jeweler and he'll say yes or no: "Yes, it is real."

So you have to go to the authorities. Who are the authorities? At least, in our country. Not only in . . . all countries. So our authorities, the whole Vedic civilization is going on under the authorities of ācārya. They are coming by disciplic succession: Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya—there are so many authorized ācāryas. What is their opinion?

Their opinion: krsnas tu bhagavan svayam (SB 1.3.28). The śāstra is there, the authoritative statement is there, and the activities are there. Then what reason you have got not to believe that Kṛṣṇa is not God? What reason you have got? Here is God. And those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, actually see their life, how they are advanced in God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the difficulty is, as Kṛṣṇa says:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

The duṣkṛtinaḥ, the miscreants, those who are always engaged in mischievous activities . . . such persons are called duṣkṛtina. So duṣkṛtina class, na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. Mūḍha means less intelligent or foolish class men. Na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā prapadyante: "They do not accept Me," narādhama, "the lowest of the mankind." "No, they have got very much educated." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Yes, they are educated, but their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Why? Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have taken to this view, 'There is no God.' " On this account they cannot understand in spite of high degrees of university education. Māyāyapahrta-jñāna.

So Kṛṣṇa says like that. The only reason is because duṣkṛtina mūḍhā māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri-bhāvam . . . therefore, in spite of all evidences from the śāstras, they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead. That's it. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja requested his father so many times, but still, he did not agree that there is God.

(break) But he agreed there is God when he was killed by God. Yes. That you cannot escape. Then you'll see God: "Here is God." The asuras, they will never accept God, but when they are killed by God, they understand that "Yes, there is God." That is the difference between asuras and devas. The devas, they accept God while living, and the asuras accept God by being killed. That's all.

And who can escape killing? Is there any scientist, is there any philosopher, any great man who can stop being killed by the cruel death? Is there any man? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34): "I am mṛtyu." Mṛtyu means death, which takes away everything at a time.

Just like "I am very rich man," "I am very big industrialist," "I am prime minister," this, that, so many things. "I am in possession of all I survey. I am the master of my country and everything." That's all right. As soon as death comes, "Oh, I am Jawaharlal Nehru," "I am Gandhi," "Oh! Never mind! Please go away! Finish. Stop your all leadership." That is God.

You don't believe; you may not believe God, but when death comes you have to believe in God. Let the scientists and let the big leaders and rich men protect himself from death. Then you can say that there is no God.

(break) This atheism, denying the existence of God, is not very good. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important.

(pause) Prasāda, you have given prasāda? I'll take. First of all . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) (end)