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690108 - Lecture BG 04.11-18 - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

690108BG-LOS ANGELES - January 08, 1969 - 47:55 Minutes

Prabhupāda: All glories to the assembled devotees.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Who is reading? Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Reading from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . chapter entitled "Transcendental Knowledge." . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Loudspeaker, this is . . .? (taps on microphone) What is this? Loudspeaker?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Page 118.

Prabhupāda: (referring to microphone) How is that? It is fixed in that way? (taps again on microphone) It is working?

Devotee: It's just a . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hmm? (taps again on microphone)

Hmm. Page number?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Page 118.

Prabhupāda: This is a problem. One hundred eighteen, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "All of them, as they surrender unto Me, I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā."

Purport: "Everyone is searching after Kṛṣṇa in the different aspects of His manifestation. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahma-jyotir, or shining effulgence. Kṛṣṇa is also partially realized as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything, even in the particles of atoms."

Prabhupāda: (referring to microphone) It is not fixed up right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But Kṛṣṇa is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone's realization, and as such, anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have Him. One devotee may want Kṛṣṇa as the supreme master, another as his personal friend, another as his son, and still another as his lover. Kṛṣṇa rewards equally all the devotees in their different intensities of love for Him."

"In the material world the same reciprocations of feelings are there, and they are equally exchanged by the Lord with the different types of worshipers. The pure devotees both here and in the transcendental abode associate with Him in person and are able to render personal service to the Lord and thus derive transcendental bliss in His loving service."

"As for those who are impersonalists and who want to commit spiritual suicide by annihilating the individual existence of the living entity, Kṛṣṇa helps them also by absorbing them into His effulgence. Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead, and consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord . . ."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ". . . and they extinguish their individuality."

Prabhupāda: God realization, there are three aspects: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11).

The Absolute Truth is realized in three aspects—Brahman, Paramātmā and Bhagavān. Brahman, the impersonal conception of the Absolute Truth, that is called Brahman. And Paramātmā is localized aspect of the Absolute Truth. And Bhagavān is the ultimate realization, Personality of Godhead.

The same example as I have given several times in these classes, that the light, sunlight, is realized first of all as sunshine. Then if you can go further the sun planet, up to the sun planet, that is localized aspect. And if you enter into the sun planet, then you'll find the sun-god is there. He is person.

The same example is in the case of Absolute Truth. The impersonal realization is not ultimate realization. Ultimate realization is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is supported in Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40).

By expansion of Lord's personal effulgence, the Brahman realization is there.

So the original verse says that, "All of them, as they surrender unto Me, I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects." This means that everyone is searching after that Absolute Truth. Some of them are satisfied with impersonal feature. The philosophers, jñānīs, they, because they want to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of their imperfect knowledge.

Because we are in this conditioned state, our senses are imperfect. Therefore whatever knowledge we gather, that is imperfect. That is not perfect. So if I endeavor to understand what is Absolute Truth, my means of understanding are the senses. But the senses are imperfect. Therefore whatever knowledge I gather by exertion of these senses, that is imperfect. That is not perfect.

So the persons who are trying to understand the Absolute Truth by exercising their imperfect knowledge, they reach up to the impersonal conception. And persons who are still further advanced, just like yogīs: they are trying to meditate upon the localized aspect of the Absolute Truth, the Paramātmā, the Supersoul, they're little further advanced. But persons who have realized the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are supposed to be the ultimate realizer. So God is realized by all of them, but not on the same level.

The example, another example: Just like from a very distant place you see one hill. You will find just like it is a cloud. If you go further near you will see it is something green. And if you reach the mountain, then you will see there are so many trees, so many animals, houses and living beings. The same example can be given here. One who is observing the Absolute Truth from a very distant place, their conception is impersonal. One who is further advanced, their conception is localized. God is situated in everyone's heart. That is localized.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that, "My way is followed by everyone." The impersonalists, they are also aiming to the same goal, and the yogīs or the localized realizer, they are also aiming the same goal. But the devotees, they have reached the same goal. That is the difference. The impersonalists or the yogīs, they could not reach the final goal. But the devotees, they have reached the final goal. Therefore you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19):

"After many, many births of transcendental realization, one surrenders unto Me, accepting vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything." Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. "That sort of mahātmā, great soul, is very rare."

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead, and consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord, having extinguished their individuality. Some of them, who are not situated even in the impersonal existence, return to this material field to exhibit their dormant desires for activities. They are not admitted into the spiritual planets, but they again are given a chance to act on the material planets."

"For those who are fruitive workers, the Lord awards the desired results of their prescribed duties as the yajñeśvara; and those who are yogīs seeking mystic powers are awarded such powers. In other words, everyone is dependent for success upon His mercy alone, and all kinds of spiritual processes are but different degrees of success on the same path."

"Unless, therefore, one comes to the highest perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all attempts remain imperfect, as is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 'Whether one is without desire (the condition of the devotees) or is desirous of all fruitive results or is after liberation, one should, with all efforts, try to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead for complete perfection, culminating in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.'"

Prabhupāda: Yes. This verse refers to the statement of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam wherein it is stated that:

akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā
mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ
tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena
yajeta paramam puruṣa
(SB 2.3.10)

The idea is that there are three classes of men. One class of men, they are simply desiring material comforts. Desiring. They want nice house, nice wife, nice comfortable life—everything nice for the comfort of this body. They are called sarva-kāma. Sarva-kāma means their desire has no end. Just like in the modern materialistic world they are trying to improve material comforts, but they do not know when does it end—one after another, one after another, one after another. Therefore they are called sarva-kāma, unlimitedly desiring. There is no end of desiring. Such persons.

Akāma . . . and akāma means one who has no desire. Just like those who are devotees, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no desire. They don't like any material comforts, any material improvements. They want simply Kṛṣṇa. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā and mokṣa-kāma. Mokṣa-kāma means one who is disgusted with these material desires and aspires after something void, impersonal, or freedom from all these desires. Mokṣa-kāma.

So Bhāgavatam says that either you are a person desiring unlimitedly or you have become free from all desires, or you are desiring liberation from this material conditional life, you please try to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Your desires, whatever desires you may have, that will be fulfilled. That will be fulfilled. So this is referred. Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā. So whatever desires you may have, if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious then your that desire will be fulfilled.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Men in this world desire success in fruitive activities, and therefore they worship the demigods. Quickly, of course, men get results from fruitive work in this world."

Thirteen: "According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the corresponding four divisions of human society were created by Me. And although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable."

Purport: "The Lord is the creator of everything. Everything is born of Him, everything is sustained by Him, and everything, after annihilation, rests with Him. He is therefore the creator of the four divisions of the social order . . ."

Prabhupāda: There are three conditions. Just like I have got this body, you have got your body. So this body is developed, created. You know. In the mother's womb the first body was just like a pea when it is first created. These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

After sex life of the man and woman there are two kinds of secretions. They mix up, emulsify, and they form into pealike shape. In that pealike shape the living entity, which is atomic, takes shelter, and because the living entity takes shelter in that pealike form it develops, develops. Just like you see the child born, he is also developing, developing.

So this is the nature. Everything is born and it develops, it stays, and it gives by-product, then it dwindles and then vanishes. These are the stages, different six stages. So after vanquishing, after annihilation, where does it stay? It stay in God. Then again takes birth. The whole material cosmic manifestation, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).

The creation is coming into existence; it stays for some time, it develops, gives some by-product, then dwindles, then vanishes. And after vanishing it stays in the same principle, the Absolute Truth. That is being explained.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ". . . beginning with the intelligent class of men, technically called the brāhmiṇs due to their being situated in the mode of goodness. Next is the administrative class, technically called the kṣatriyas due to their being situated in the mode of passion. The mercantile men, called the vaiśyas, are situated in the mixed modes of passion and ignorance. And the śūdras, or the laborer class, are situated in the ignorant mode of material nature.

"In spite of His creating the four divisions of human society, Lord Kṛṣṇa does not belong to any of these divisions, because He is not one of the conditioned souls, a section of whom form human society. Human society is the same as animal society, but to elevate men from the animal status the above-mentioned divisions are created by the Lord for the systematic development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

"The tendency of a particular man towards work is determined by the modes of material nature which he has acquired. Such symptoms of life according to different modes of material nature are described in the Eighteenth Chapter of this book. A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, however, is above even the Brāhmiṇs, because a Brāhmiṇ by quality is supposed to know about Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth.

"Most of them approach the impersonal Brahman manifestation of Lord Kṛṣṇa, but only a man who transcends the limited knowledge of a Brāhmiṇ and reaches the knowledge of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, becomes a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or in other words, a Vaiṣṇava.

"Kṛṣṇa consciousness includes knowledge of all different plenary expansions of Kṛṣṇa, namely Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, etc. As Kṛṣṇa is transcendental to this system of the four divisions of human society, a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also transcendental to the mundane divisions of human society, whether we consider the divisions of community, nation or species."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa has many incarnations. Sometimes He appears in the species of fish. Keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare (Śrī Daśāvatāra-stotra 1).

That does not mean that He belongs to the fish community. Similarly, when Kṛṣṇa appeared as the son of Vasudeva, Vasudeva belonged to the kṣatriyas. That does not mean that He belonged to the kṣatriya community.

Then again He was transferred to Vṛndāvana to become the foster son of Nanda Mahārāja. And Nanda Mahārāja was a vaiśya, mercantile community man. So that does not mean that Kṛṣṇa belonged to the vaiśya community. He does not belong to any community.

So you should not take Kṛṣṇa that because He appeared in India therefore He is Indian or Indian God. That is a mistake. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Do not consider that Kṛṣṇa belongs to the Hindu community or Kṛṣṇa belongs to the India or any way, kṣatriya. No. He does not belong to any material designation. He is above.

And you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourteenth Chapter, He claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ (BG 14.4).

There are 8,400,000's of forms of living entities, including human being. And Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā, "I am their seed-giving father." So He claims to be father not only of the human society but of the animal society, beast society, bird society, insect society, aquatic society, plant society, tree society—all living entities. God cannot belong to any particular community or class. That is misconception. God must belong to everyone.

So when we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do not take it as a sectarian view. Try to understand the philosophy. He belongs to every living entity. He is the supreme living entity. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).

That is the Vedic version. He is the leader of all living entities. By our different result of our work we have assumed different dresses, but as living entity we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness in that way.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fourteen: "There is no work that affects Me, nor do I aspire for the fruits of action. One who understands this truth about Me does not become entangled in the fruitive reactions of work."

Prabhupāda: Because He does not belong to any community or anything of this material world, He has nothing to do. We work. Why we work? Because we want some material profit. He hasn't got to take any profit, so why should He work? He says therefore that, "There is no work that affects Me." But still He comes. Why? That is explained in the beginning. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7):

"When there is discrepancies in the matter of religiosity I come down to make things all right, to set things in right order." That is His work.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifteen: "All the liberated souls in ancient times acted with this understanding and so attained liberation. Therefore, as did the ancients, you should perform your duty in this divine consciousness."

Purport: "There are two classes of men. Some of them are full of polluted material things within their hearts, and some of them are materially free. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is equally beneficial for both of these persons. Those who are full of dirty things can take to the line of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for a gradual cleansing process, following the regulative principles of devotional service. Those who are already cleansed of the impurities may continue to act in the same Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that others may follow their exemplary activities and thereby be benefited."

"Foolish persons or neophytes in Kṛṣṇa consciousness often want to retire from activities without having knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Arjuna's desire to retire from activities on the battlefield was not approved by the Lord. One need only know how to act. To retire from activities and to sit aloof, making a show of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is less important than actually engaging in the field of activities for the sake of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not mean laziness. We do not indulge. Just like Arjuna. This Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna. He wanted to retire, that "Kṛṣṇa, why You are engaging me in this battlefield? Let me retire." So Kṛṣṇa did not allow him to retire. To understand his position, that is required. Retirement, how you can retire? You cannot retire. So long you have got this body you have to work. If you do not work you have to beg. If you do not beg then you have to steal or you have to borrow. How you can retire? There is no question of retire. Retire means to retire from all foolish activities and engage yourself in real activities. Retire is the negative side. But unless you have got positive side you cannot retire. You'll have come back again.

There are so many yogīs and jñānīs, they say that, "This world is false. Let me retire from it." But after some time he again falls down again to the sense gratification in this material world. So what is retirement? Retirement is not required. But what is required that purify your activities. Not to stop your activity, but to purify it. Just like when you are diseased it is not required that you should be killed. No. Your disease should be, I mean, cured, then you can work in healthy life. So that is required. Retirement means to become cured from the diseased activities, but to place yourself in healthy activities. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Arjuna is here advised to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, following the footsteps of the Lord's previous disciples such as the sun-god Vivasvān, as mentioned herein before. The Supreme Lord knows all His past activities as well as those of persons who acted in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the past. Therefore He recommends the acts of the sun-god, who learned this art from the Lord some millions of years before. All such students of Lord Kṛṣṇa are mentioned here as past liberated persons engaged in the discharge of duties allotted by Kṛṣṇa."

Sixteen: "Even the intelligent are bewildered in determining what is action and what is inaction. Now I shall explain to you what action is, knowing which you shall be liberated from all sins."

Seventeen: "The intricacies of action are very hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly what action is, what forbidden action is, and what inaction is."

Purport: "If one is serious about liberation from material bondage, one has to understand the distinctions between action, inaction and unauthorized actions. One has to apply oneself to such an analysis of action, reaction and perverted actions, because it is a very difficult subject matter."

"To understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness and action according to the modes, one has to learn one's relationship with the Supreme. One who has learned perfectly knows that every living entity is the eternal servant of the Lord and consequently acts in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The entire Bhagavad-gītā is directed towards this conclusion. Any other conclusions against this consciousness and its intended reactions are vikarmas, or prohibited actions. To understand all this one has to associate with authorities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and learn the secret from them. This is as good as learning from the Lord directly."

Prabhupāda: The action, inaction and perverted action—these three things are very important subject matter for understanding. Here the same example. It is very simple to understand. The same example. Your position, you first of all you must know what is your position. The position is, Kṛṣṇa says that, "All these living entities are My part and parcel." That is your position. Lord Caitanya also says that jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108-109).

As part and parcel.

This is very easy to understand. Just like this finger is the part and parcel of your body; the hand is the part and parcel of your body; the leg is the part and parcel of your body; so we are all part and parcel of the Supreme. So what is our duty? What is the duty of this finger? "Now I wish that you stand like this"—the finger is standing like this. It is executing my order. If I say: "Close," finger immediately closed. So this is the duty.

If I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, then what is my duty? My duty is to act what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. That is my action. Without knowing this, whatever I do, that is perverted action. Just like in diseased condition this finger cannot act according to my order. "Oh, there is some pain." If I want to make it stand like that, "Oh, I feel pain," because there is diseased condition. Similarly, when we do not act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is our diseased condition of life. That is not normal condition. In normal condition we shall be all prepared to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we should know. Then our action will be right. Otherwise all inaction . . . not inaction; perverted action. Inaction is different. Inaction means what you do there is no reaction. That is inaction.

Yes. Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighteen: "One who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities."

Purport: "A person acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is naturally free from the resultant action of work. His activities are all performed for Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he does not enjoy or suffer any of the effects of the world."

Prabhupāda: Reaction means when you enjoy or suffer. That is called reaction. And inaction means when there is no result on your account.

Just like you are working on account of the state. The state orders you to fight, so you are fighting, you are killing so many men. There is no reaction. But without state's order if you kill one man, immediately becomes a murderer. There is reaction immediately. This is very simple to understand.

Similarly, if you act on the supreme order there is no reaction, and if you act on your own account there will be reaction. Own account means whatever you do, either you suffer or you enjoy. But if you want to be inactive, neither suffering nor enjoying—in the neutral state—that is required. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Akarma means without reaction to work. The impersonalist ceases fruitive activities out of fear, so that the resultant action may not be a stumbling block on the path of self-realization, whereas the personalist knows rightly his position as the eternal servitor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead; therefore he engages himself in the activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

"Because everything is done for Kṛṣṇa, he enjoys only transcendental happiness in the discharge of his service. Those who are engaged in this process or without desire for personal sense gratification, the sense of eternal servitorship to Kṛṣṇa makes one immune to all reactionary elements of work."

Prabhupāda: That's all. Now any question? (devotees offer obeisances) Yes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you explain, Prabhupāda, once again what action in inaction is and inaction in action is?

Prabhupāda: Action . . . just like you are active. You are working, you all Kṛṣṇa conscious devotees. You are also working—you are not sitting idly—but it is inaction. Inaction in this sense, that it is not producing any reaction. It has no reaction. But others, those who are not acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are also busy, but they are producing their reaction.

So things which are not producing reaction, that is inaction. One who can see that "I am acting in this way, there is no reaction," that is inaction. And one who sees that "I am doing this, but there is reaction," that is action. So it requires little intelligence to see how it is action or inaction. Therefore it is said that one who can see action in inaction and inaction in action, he is intelligent. Yes.

Any other question? From the audience? Yes, you try to understand. Try to understand the science of God philosophically, intelligently, logically. There is no question of dogma. Everything is nicely explained in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, so you can try to understand.


Guest: Could you explain the picture?

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's picture. Yes.

Guest (2): I practice transcendental meditation myself, and some of the concepts we use, as far as levels of consciousness, we use the word "cosmic consciousness" and "God consciousness," and I was wondering how Kṛṣṇa consciousness would relate to . . . (indistinct) . . . cosmic consciousness.

Prabhupāda: What do you understand by "Cosmic consciousness"?

Guest (2): Living transcendental consciousness simultaneous . . .

Prabhupāda: Just explain . . . just try to explain what do you mean by "Cosmic consciousness."

Guest (2): Being in a transcendental state simultaneously with the waking, dreaming and deep sleep states, the relative states . . . (indistinct) . . . and having the transcendental state also. Being . . .

Prabhupāda: What is the distinction between transcendental stage and this stage?

Guest (2): The transcendental is pure being, pure existence, pure consciousness, pure awareness, and the other states are pure . . . (indistinct) . . . irrelevant.

Prabhupāda: And what is impure?

Guest (2): Not impure. They . . .

Prabhupāda: Then how you distinguish pure?

Guest (2): The object of perception is . . .

Prabhupāda: What is that object of perception that is pure?

Guest (2): The perceiver and the object perceived would be one.

Prabhupāda: What is that object? Give me tangible example.

Guest (2): In relative existence it would be that which exists, and . . .

Prabhupāda: What is that relative? Relative means there must be something absolute. When you speak of relative . . . just like you are son, relative. Immediately the conception of father must be there; otherwise why . . . how it is relative? So as soon as you say "relative," what is the absolute?

Guest (2): The absolute is . . . I can't say much more than it is, I guess.

Prabhupāda: Then you have no conception of the absolute. You cannot explain.

Guest (2): It's . . .

Prabhupāda: You are simply . . . your meditation means you are simply in the relative.

Guest (2): It's not . . .

Prabhupāda: You are giving definition in the . . . just like you do not know what it is. You say simply, "It is not this," that's all. But you do not know what it is. That is not concrete definition. If I say: "This is not watch. This is not book. This is not light. This is not microphone," I can go on thousands of years saying: "This is not, this is not, this is not," but that does not mean it is this. And if you know it, immediately say, "It is glass, spectacle."

That means you do not know it. Simply negation, "This is not, this is not, this is not," is not the realization of the absolute. You must give concrete idea of the absolute. That is transcendental meditation.

Guest (2): I'm working on it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): I'm working on it.

Prabhupāda: So you are working; you are not realized. But we are giving concrete absolute truth. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, how He is concrete absolute. It is just like this: You are studying this article. You are simply trying to understand it, "It is not this, it is not this, it is not this." But if you take it from an authorized person who knows what it is, that "This is spectacle," your knowledge is immediately there. So here the Absolute is speaking about the Absolute. So if you understand Him, Kṛṣṇa, then immediately understand Absolute.


Young woman: How do you . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa? By talking about Him?

Prabhupāda: No. These people are not talking; they are realized. Talking is the beginning, but there is realization. Just like when I did not come to your country I was talking that, "America is like this." But now when I have come to America, I realize what is America. So talking is theoretical understanding, and when you realize, that is practical understanding. One is called jñāna, other is called vijñāna. So jñāna and vijñāna, both things are there, theoretical and practical.

Young woman: So how do you realize Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: You have to adopt the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Young woman: Say that again?

Prabhupāda: You have to adopt the process. Ādau śraddhā. If you are inquisitive to understand, that is your first stage of faith. That is called śraddhā. Ādau śraddhā. In the beginning, your inquisitiveness that, "I want to understand," that is faith. Then next stage is association of persons who know, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83).

Then initiation. Then disappearance of all misgivings. Then steady faith. Then attachment. And then ecstasy. Then realization. These are stages.

So if you are anxious to know, then please come to our classes. We are discussing simply this subject matter, so you'll kindly . . . if you kindly come, gradually you'll be able to understand. It is not very difficult. All my students, they are all American boys and girls. I have not brought with me any Indian or Hindu, but they are understanding.

Just talk with them. They will be able to explain how they are understanding. So similarly, you will also be able to understand. It is not very difficult subject. But you must be sincere to understand. That is the only qualification required. That's all.


Young man: (indistinct) . . . do you reach a certain spiritual . . .

Prabhupāda: What is that?.

Revatīnandana: (explaining question) By studying what is the realization . . .

Prabhupāda: Study, yes. Study . . . simple study will not help you. You must study from a bona fide teacher. Otherwise it will be misleading. Just like if you want to be a medical practitioner, if you purchase books from the bookstore, medical books, and you study, that will not help you. You have to admit yourself in a medical college and study there. Then you will understand.

If you say that "I have studied all the medical books," the government will not recognize you as a medical practitioner. When he will see, and the government will see or any person will see that you have regularly passed medical examination from authorities, then you will be accepted. (break) (end)