670303 - Lecture SB 07.06.01 - San Francisco

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



670303SB-SAN FRANCISCO - March 03, 1967 - 61:12 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

...kāñcana-gaurāṅgi
rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devi
praṇamāmi hari-priye
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
śrī-prahrāda uvāca
kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

Today I shall speak before you the conversation of Prahlāda Mahārāja and his class fellows. Prahlāda Mahārāja, when he was grown-up young man, he was a big emperor. But when he was a child, from the very beginning of his life, he was a great devotee. And his father was a great atheist. So the child was taught about this bhāgavata-dharma, or...

Bhāgavata-dharma means dealings with the Personality of Godhead. There are many kinds of dealings. So when our dealings are with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is called bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata means from the word bhagavān. Bhagavān means the person who has got all the six opulences in full. He is called Bhagavān, or God.

In most scriptures of the world there is idea of God, but actually there is no definition of God. But in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because it is science of God, there is definition, what do you mean by God. The definition is that one person who has got six opulences in full, He is God. What are the six opulences? Aiśvarya. Aiśvarya means wealth. And samāgra, aiśvaryasya samāgrasya (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47), complete wealth. Complete wealth means, just like we are sitting here, say, twenty-five or fifty men. Everyone has got some wealth in bank balance. But if some one of us can exceed the bank balance of every one of us, he is called samāgra. Now try to understand what is the definition of God.

Now there are many rich men, not only here in your country, in other countries also. So take the whole world as a whole, and if you scrutinize who is the richest man, you will hardly find one who is the richest of all. There is a competitor, another. But here the definition is the richest. Nobody can compete with Him. The richest.

Then, aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. Vīryasya means strength. You have got some strength, I have got some strength, but another man may be stronger than you and me. Another man is stronger than he. So nobody can say that "I am the strongest," and nobody can say, "I am the richest."

So aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ. Yaśasaḥ means fame. Everyone, we are hankering after, every one of us, name, fame. Lābha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhaḥ. This materialistic life means we want some profit, we want some fame and we want some good name. If I see that my name is stamped in the history, I think, "Oh, I am..., my life is successful." But what is the history? Your name means your body, your photo of this body. But as soon as you leave this body, what you will do with this name? You are going to another body, another name.

So aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya. Vīryasya means strength. So one should have the complete power of riches, complete power of strength, complete fame. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ, and complete beauty. And jñāna, complete knowledge, and vairāgya, complete renouncement.

If you can find out somebody that nobody is richer than him, nobody is more famous than him, nobody is stronger than him, nobody is wiser than him, nobody is more beautiful than him and nobody is more renouncer than him, when these six opulences you will find, without any competition, that is God. This is the definition of God.

So everything should be understood very distinctly what do we mean by God, not that a third-class man comes and he proclaims himself, "I am God." This is our foolishness. Why shall I accept a third-class man as God? At the present moment everyone is very much anxious to become God and cheat you. And there are so many so-called svāmīs, they are coming, and they are preaching that "You are God. I am God." Then who is dog? Everyone is God? No.

Therefore you will find in the Vedic literature definition of God. Here is definition of... Just apply this definition. If you find somebody that he is corroborating with this definition of God, then he is God. Otherwise he is a nonsense. God is not so cheap thing. You find out a person that nobody can be found richer than him, nobody can be found stronger than him, nobody can be found more famous than him, beautiful than him or wiser than him or renouncer than him.

So this analysis, this definition, analytical study of God, is very nicely made by the sages, ancient sages of India, Bhārata-varṣa, and they have studied the qualification of the demigods just like the sun-god, the moon god, the heavenly god, this god, that god. There are so many. You are also god, I am also god, in this sense, that every one of us has got little, little, these opulences. Everyone, you have got some wealth. It is not that you have no wealth, but you cannot claim that you are the wealthiest. That is not possible.

As you have got also some strength, you have got also some fame, you have got also some beauty, you have got some also wisdom, you have got also some renunciation. Little, little. Because we are part and parcel of the Supreme, therefore all the qualities of God can be found in each and every living entity in minute quantity. So you can claim that you are also minute god, but you cannot claim that you are Supreme God. This is the definition of God.

So the science of God, or our relationship with God and our dealings with God, is called bhāgavata-dharma, occupation with God..., dealings with God. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam means how we can learn. First of all, we have to understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God. And as soon as the relationship is established, then there is dealings. And as soon as there is dealing, then there is some profit. There must be some profit.

Just like a businessman, another businessman, they first of all make some connection, that "You are supplier. I am...," I mean to say, what is called? "Receiver." Because a businessman, one businessman sells. Another businessman purchases. "So you are purchaser. I am seller. So our agreement is made that 'I shall supply you. You shall purchase.' " This is called relationship.

In every dealings we must have first of all the relationship. Then, when there is relationship established, then next stage is to deal according to that relationship. And when the dealing is perfect, then we get the desired result. Either in business field or in other relationship—friend and friend, wife and husband, master and servant, father and son... You can take any, accept any form of relationship, there must be a standard of dealing and there must be a result out of that.

This is called bhāgavata-dharma. After... You must know what is your position, you must know what is God, and you must know what is your relationship with God. Then you must deal with God in that way. Then you get the desired result. This is perfection of life. It is called bhāgavata-dharma.

So what is our relationship with God? As I have already explained, that the six opulences are there in God in full, and the same six opulences are in me, but in particle. Just like the ocean water: It contains tons, millions of tons salt, ocean water, salt. You take a drop of ocean water, you analyze, you will find a grain of salt also. The salt is there also. Similarly, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is our relationship? Relationship is,

mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ
jīva-loke sanātanaḥ
manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
(BG 15.7)

Kṛṣṇa says that "All the living entities, they are My part and parcel, but," manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, "due to their contaminated mind, they are struggling hard in this material nature."

We are struggling very hard as part and parcel. Just like this hand is part and parcel of my body. So what is the real function of the hand? It must always remain attached with this body. Then it is in healthy condition. If the hand is cut off from this body, you may call that "This is Swāmījī's hand," you may call it, but it has no use. So long this hand is attached with my body, if there is some pain, I can spend thousands of dollars to relieve that pain. The same hand, when it is cut off from the body, if you trample with your legs my hand, I don't care for it.

Similarly, we living entities, we are also part and parcel of God, but because we have separated ourself, our relationship with God, therefore we are being trampled down by the materialistic laws. The material laws—always pinching, so many miseries. But we have become so fool that we do not realize that this is a platform where simply miseries are being experienced. That is called māyā.

We are always in miseries, but if I ask you or you ask me, "How are you," I will say, "Oh, it is very nice." What is very nice? We are sitting here. The heat is so extensive that everyone is feeling inconvenienced. But if you ask me, "Swāmījī, how are you?" I will say, "It is very nice." This is called māyā. We are always under some tribulation, always, either now it is very hot, it is warm, and after few months it will be too cold.

So either you are in cold or you are in heat. So these are miseries. If not heat and cold—it is all right, atmosphere—oh, there is something, mental misery. If there is no mental misery, oh, there is some bodily misery. If there is no mental misery, bodily misery or natural misery, then somebody must... At least, there is mosquito misery, the bug misery. So if you analyze your life, it is full of miseries. Full of miseries.

Therefore, we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, but because we have separated ourself from God... Because we are speaking of God, very... People are interested, "Oh, the Swāmījī is speaking of God. God is dead." This is nonsense. You are living. "Everyone is living. Simply God has died." You see? This is, this philosophy is going on. Therefore bhāgavata-dharma, one has to study from the very beginning of life. Otherwise, we shall learn this philosophy that "God is dead." So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret prajno dharmān bhāgavatan iha (SB 7.6.1).

This occupation of dealings with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Bhagavān, should be learned from the very beginning of life. Just like one of our student's son, Eddy, he is always with his father, and he is learning bhāgavata-dharma. He is also bowing down, seeing his father and other Godbrothers of his father. So he is learning. We also learned in that way, in our childhood. So from the very childhood one should be taught what is bhāgavata-dharma. Otherwise there will be unwanted population, and the world will become a hell.

Just like at the present moment we practically experience. Everywhere there is discontentment, there is scarcity. Just like from India we thought that "When I go to America and other Western countries, I will see that every man is very rich man and every man has got a very nice apartment and is enjoying life." But actually, when I come here I see that there are many poor men, there are many miserable men here also. Only the proportionate is different, but the actual fact is the same, either in India or in America or in Canada or in everywhere. The same thing. Proportion different. Therefore, if we want... Prahlāda Mahārāja says that,

kaumāra acaret prajno
dharmān bhāgavatan iha
durlābhaṁ manusam janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

This Prahlāda Mahārāja learned this bhāgavata-dharma from Nārada Muni from the womb of his mother. When he was living within the womb of his mother like this... Perhaps you have seen the child in the womb. At least, you have seen in the photograph. So he was lying there within the womb of his mother. And Nārada Muni instructed his mother about this bhāgavata-dharma, and the child...

This bhāgavata-dharma is, therefore, without any impediment. Just like one child, four years old, he is associating with us, so he is also getting the same benefit as his father. It is so nice thing. It is not that because he is child he is not getting any benefit. Simply by associating with the devotees, he is getting so much profit, incalculable. Incalculable.

So bhāgavata-dharma, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, kaumāra acaret... If not a very small child, but as soon as one is four or five years old... Kaumāra means from five years to fifteen years. That period of life is called kaumāra. So one should learn this bhāgavata-dharma from the beginning. Just like we send boys, children, to schools for training, similarly, the children should be sent for learning bhāgavata-dharma. Unfortunately, nobody is interested.

He was... Prahlāda Mahārāja also was in difficulty. His father... Even his father was against him, because he was teaching this bhāgavata-dharma, and the teachers were complaining to his father, "Sir, your son, we do not know how he has learned this bhāgavata-dharma. He is simply teaching. As soon as he gets some opportunity he makes this education of God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to other children. So what to do with your child?" The father asked, "Where you have learned this? Tell me." So... Those topics will come later on.

Now here Prahlāda Mahārāja, as soon as he saw some opportunity that the teacher is out of the class, he would call all the boys, "My dear friends, this bhāgavata-dharma, this understanding God consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, should be learned from the very beginning of life." "Why? Let us play. Why bhāgavata-dharma now? All right, if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, when we shall get older or when the time of death will be nearing, we can study at that time bhāgavata-dharma."

But Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "No. Kaumāra." Why kaumāraṁ? Now, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. You are calculating that when you'll get old, at that time you shall try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But what is the guarantee that you are not already old enough? Who can say? The next moment I can die. Old age means nearing death. But there is no such guarantee that one shall die at eighty years old or hundred years old. Death can take place at any moment.

Therefore a sane man will understand that we are always old enough, because there is no guarantee. Durlabhaṁ. And this mānuṣaṁ janma, this human form of life, is called durlabha. Durlabha means very rarely obtained, after many, many evolutionary process, either you take the anthropologist theory how human body has developed or you take from Vedic literature.

But the difference is that anthropologist, they say, "There is no soul. The organic matter is developing in different ways." But Vedic literature says it is not the organic matter, but it is the soul. The soul is a person, is individual, and he is transforming different types of bodies from one body to another, transmigrating. This we have explained several times.

Just we were experiencing: This child who is playing, he is now, he has got a small body. Similarly, when he will get a body like his father, he has to change so many bodies. So many bodies. So the bodies will change but he, the soul, will remain the same. And now, at this childhood, or in the womb of his mother, or when the body is just like his father, or when the body is just like his grandfather—the same, same soul will continue. So therefore soul is permanent and the body is changing. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). This body is temporary. Temporary. Either this childhood body or boyhood body or youthhood body or mature body or old body, they are all temporary. Every moment, every second, we are changing. But the soul within the body, that is permanent. So this body, Prahlāda Mahārāja says, durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "Now, after many many births..." That will...

Perhaps you do not know. There are 9,000,000 types of aquatic animals. So we have to pass through all these 9,000,000's. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa). And lakṣa-viṁśati, 200,000's. I am sorry, not 9,000,000's; 900,000. And then 2,000,000's species of plant life, vegetable life, we have to pass through. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-sāṅkhyakāḥ. And eleven hundred thousands of species of worms and reptiles. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra, pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam. And there are ten hundred thousands of species of the birds. So similarly, there are 3,000,000 types of four-legged animals. And the human species of life are only 400,000 species, or types, as you take it.

In this way the total is 8,400,000's of types of bodies, and we have to pass through, by transmigration, from one body to another, another, another, another. Now we have got this civilized form of body. Prahlāda Mahārāja says that it is very rare opportunity. We should not misuse this body just like other animals. Then it will be our foolishness.

Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy adhruvam. When we have got this human form of body, then we shall live more than the cats and dogs? No. Adhruvam. Adhruvam means this body also will not exist. Adhruvam. It is not eternal. The soul is eternal, but the body is not eternal. But although it is not eternal, the distinction between this body and the animal body is that although it will not exist...

As a dog's body will not exist or a cat's body will not exist or the bird's body will not exist, similarly, this body also will not exist. That's a fact. But arthadam: but if you like, you can attain the highest perfection of life in this body. That is the opportunity. Therefore, from the very beginning, a child should be given opportunity how to make his life perfect. That is Vedic civilization.

Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that "One should not become a father, one should not become a mother, one should not become a spiritual master, one should not become a guardian, one should not become a husband..." In this way they have given a long list. Who? Who is that one? "One who cannot give his dependent relief from death." Samupeta-mṛtyuḥ. Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyuḥ (SB 5.5.18): "One who cannot make free his dependent." What is that freedom? "Freedom from the cycle of birth and death." He should not become a father or mother or spiritual master, like that.

And Prahlāda Mahārāja is also instructing in this way, that "This human form body should be utilized fully for understanding our real position, our relationship with God, and our transaction, and dealings, and the basis of our relationship with God and what is the real goal of life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that the real goal of life is premā pum-artho mahān (Caitanya-mañjusā). Prema, to attain love. Of course, in this material world, so many things are going on in the name of love. But actually there is no love; they are all lust, but going on in trade in the name of love. Love is possible only with Kṛṣṇa, or God. Premā pum-artho mahān.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Not any other thing. Dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, CC Adi 1.90). Generally, people understand eating, sleeping and mating and fearing. That is the lowest grade of life. A little higher grade of life, they try to understand about some religious principle, and they are generally become religious for some gain, some material gain. Just like in the churches or in the temples they go, they ask some benefit from God, "O God, give us our daily bread."

Or somebody goes to temple, asks some benefit. So dharma, artha, kāma. Why they ask some benefit? Now, just to satisfy their senses, that's all. They have no other aim. Dharma artha kāma and mokṣa. And when they are dissatisfied or frustrated in sense gratification, then mokṣa, they want to become one with God.

So dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41). These are the general demands. The lower class of men, they are simply demands of the body—something eating, something sleeping, defending and mating. And the higher class, little elevated, they are after religiosity and some material gain and sense gratification or, utmost, to become one with the Supreme. But they have no other ideas generally. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No, above that there is another thing." That is prema, to love God. That is transcendental.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost, topmost knowledge how to love God and thereby enjoy life. Because we want to love. Unfortunately... The other day I was instructing my students that "You just get yourself married." Now, they are confused. Somebody said, "Where to get a nice girl?" Just see.

Everyone wants to love, but frustration. The girls will say, "Where is a nice boy?" So the tendency of love is there in everywhere, either in animal or in man, but the lovable object is missing. Missing. That is Kṛṣṇa. If you try to love Kṛṣṇa, then your life will be fulfilled: "Oh, here is lovable object." Premā pum-artho mahān.

Therefore Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu is consider to be most munificent personality. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). Oh, Rūpa Gosvāmī is offering Him his obeisances, "My dear Lord, You are the most magni..., munificent..."

(break) Why? Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "You are giving, distributing love of God, love of Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya.

So we want to love somebody, but we are being frustrated. But if you try to love Kṛṣṇa, either as master or as friend or as the Supreme or as son or as husband or lover... There are so many relationship. Just try to establish, find out, what is the relationship with Kṛṣṇa, and this science is being taught in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Thank you very much. Any question? (break)

Shyamasundar: ...established with Kṛṣṇa is first established with the spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every relationship... Just like I have given you example, business relationship. So if you want to establish some business relationship, there must be a broker. You see? If you want to establish a relationship with some girl, there must be a negotiator. Of course, in your country it is very free. In India it is no... There is no free love. There is a negotiator, either privately or through the parents.

So in every transaction there is a negotiator. So spiritual master is the negotiator. He is the broker—of course, without any brokerage. But he is supposed to be the broker, or the transparent medium. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "the transparent media, via media." Just like my eyes are not very perfect, so I am using this transparent via media to see. Similarly, because we have forgotten our relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, so we have to see through the transparent via media of spiritual master. Otherwise it is very difficult. That is the process. That is the process.

Therefore Bhāgavata, er, Vedic literature gives you injunction, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.2.12). Tad-vijñānārtham. Tat means spiritual, or transcendental. If you want to understand about transcendental science, then tad-vijñānārtham, in order to understand that transcendental science, so gurum eva. Eva. Gurum means a spiritual master; eva, eva means must; and gacchet, gacchet also, it is used in the obli..., or the imperative, "must."

And who is a guru? Who is a spiritual master? That is also defined there. Otherwise he will be puzzled where to go. "All right, I am ready to go to a spiritual master to understand the transcendental science, but who is a guru?" Everyone will be ready: "Oh, I am your guru. I am a spiritual master." No. There are signs. What is that?

Śrotriyam. Śrotriyam means one who has perfectly heard the science of God from authoritative sources in disciplic succession. That is the qualification. Śrotriyam. And brahma-niṣṭham means not that simply he has heard, but the result is that he is firmly fixed up in God consciousness. These two qualifications.

You have to find out that whether this man is coming from disciplic succession, śrotriyam... Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2): "By this disciplic succession, this science of Bhagavad-gītā was learned." So we have to approach to a spiritual master who is coming down from that disciplic succession. Then he is bona fide. Not only... He may be coming, but if he has not understood, then simply accepting will not do. Then the next symptom is śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.2.12). Brahma-niṣṭham means he is firmly fixed up; nobody can deviate from his point of steadiness. These are the general. There are many other definition in different...

And the disciple also, he must have also qualification to approach a spiritual master. It is not that because you have got a bona fide spiritual master, therefore you will be benefited. You must be also qualified. What is that qualification? What is the disciple's qualification? That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). Śreya uttamam. Everyone is engaged for some temporary benefit, everyone in this world, you will find. Everyone is very busy. When you speak, "Please come to our temple," "Sir, I am very busy." What is his business? The business is eating, sleeping and mating. That's all, his business.

nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ
vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ
divā cārthehayā rājan
kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā
(SB 2.1.3)

What is the engagement? At night, sleeping or sex indulgence, and at daytime, "Where is money? Where is money?" And if there is money, then "Where to purchase these things?" Go to the store. Go to the shop. Finish. So that sort of inquiry engagement is not a qualification for understanding spiritual science. One should be inquisitive. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One should be inquisitive to understand what is the highest benefit of life. And that is the beginning of Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. And the highest benefit of life is to understand the spiritual science or the supreme spirit, athāto brahma, brahma-jijñāsā.

So before establishing our relationship with God, we have to establish our relationship with the negotiator. If that relationship is firm and secure, then your realization of God is secure and firm. There is no doubt about it. If, fortunately, one gets a bona fide spiritual master and if he follows the instruction rigidly, then his God realization is guaranteed. There is no doubt about it. (break)

Shyamasundar: A person gets to..., meets the spiritual master, by the grace Kṛṣṇa? Then he has (indistinct) desires and (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa guidance?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Kṛṣṇa is always with you. When you are anxious for Kṛṣṇa, or God, then Kṛṣṇa will give you direction that "You please go to that person who is My representative." So Kṛṣṇa will help you from within and without. Therefore spiritual master is supposed to be Kṛṣṇa's representative from without, and Kṛṣṇa is sitting within yourself. So Kṛṣṇa is ready to help you from within and without, provided you are anxious to get that help.

Yes?

Shyamasundar: And as the student is anxious to learn, the spiritual master gives...?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Unless he is anxious to learn, what is the use of going to spiritual master? There is no need. That I already said. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One must be very inquisitive. But inquisitive about what? For the supreme benefit. He should be inquisitive to learn the Supreme. Then he has the necessity of searching out or approaching a spiritual master. If there is no such demand, then there is no necessity of going to a spiritual master or accepting a spiritual master.

A spiritual master should not be accepted as a matter of (indistinct). Just like you keep some pet dog or cat, similarly if you want to keep one spiritual master, there is no profit. You see? You must be qualified to in..., become inquisitive to understand the spiritual science, and the spiritual master should be also qualified to answer your inquisitiveness. Then the relationship is nice, not one-sided.

Yes?

Devotee: Swāmījī, you talk about separation from God. You also speak about the fact that our consciousness is imperfect because it's contaminated by matter. What keeps the spirit separate from God after death, when it is separated from matter?

Prabhupāda: Just like a boy, his father is very rich man, but he has left his home, so he is separated. The same boy, when he comes to his senses, "Oh, my father is so rich, and I am simply suffering for want of money. Let me go back to my father."

And the father is always anxious to receive the boy. So if he goes back to his father, the father says, "Yes, my dear boy, please come. I was so much anxious." So this separation means the father and the son relationship cannot be separated. But the son's rebellion to the father is separation.

Similarly, our relationship with God cannot be separated. God is supplying us everything, although we think, "There is no God," "God is dead," and all nonsense you may say. But it is due to God's grace that you are eating daily. That's a fact. Either you say, "God give us our daily bread" or you don't say, God is anxious to supply you bread. He is so kind, because you are His son.

Prabhupāda: The separation means from the sun's side (?). He thinks that God is dead, or God, there is no God. But he is so fool that he does not see that if there is no God. Then how he is eating, how he is sleeping, how he is mating, how he is living?

It is very common sense..Yes?

Guest: Just what exactly is meant when you talk about God or a soul living as separate from matter because there is no process?

Prabhupāda: Process? What you mean by process?

Guest: I mean when you say a person is living we.

Prabhupāda: You are living because you are soul. You are there within your body. You say it is your body. I say your body, you say my body or you say my body. So the body is not yourself.

Guest: Yeah but what means.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are separate from the body. Just like it is your shirt, it is your coat. So you are not the coat, you are not the shirt. This is the preliminary understanding of transcendental science. The most miserable condition of materialistic mind is that they are identifying with this body. That is the., I mean to say most miserable condition of imperfectness or ignorance.

(break) You're question is answered? If not you may clear it. Try to understand.

Guest: I was just wondering when you say, (indistinct) God is dead. What is meant by saying God is dead? Or even (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: They don't say that—that a person should say like that.

Guest: But what is meant? When they (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That means they are.

Guest: (indistinct) God.

Prabhupāda: Eh? God is never dead neither you are dead. But foolishly we say, that God is dead. Because you do not know what is God, you do not know what I am. Therefore we say. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, that one must learn this science from the beginning of life. Otherwise this foolishness will continue.

nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām
eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān
(Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13)

These are Vedic mantra that there is one supreme eternal amongst millions and trillions and hundr. Innumerable eternals. So we are innumerable eternals, plural number. You, me and so many other living entities, 8,400,000 species of living entities. They are plural number. Vedic mantra says: eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. But the singular number eternal eko. He's supplying all the necessities of this plural number eternals.

And that is a fact, you go to a church where you ask God, "Give us our daily bread." And you are getting your bread, then why you're saying that God is dead? Wherefrom you are getting bread? This is foolishness. They are praying in the church, not only church, in mosque and every temple—everywhere. Oh they are getting the things and still they say, "God is dead."

Suppose you are asking me something and you are getting this same thing supplied. How you can say that I am dead? Just see the foolishness. So these are the statements of rascals and fools. They are not sane men. That is... Don't think that I am using this strong words. No. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These terms are used. What is that version? Duṣkṛtinaḥ—miscreants, mūḍhāḥ—rascals, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante—surrenders. Narādhamāḥ—the lowest of the mankind. Why it has been said mankind? Because mankind is supposed to know God. Not the animal kind. So any man who does not understand what is God, he is lowest of the mankind. Narādhamāḥ. Nara—means man and adhamāḥ—means lowest.

Then somebody may say. "Oh, everyone is narādhamāḥ the lowest of the mankind there are so many graduates, there are so many, DAC, MAC, and they are all narādhamās?" The Bhāgavata says., eh Bhagavad-gītā says yes! And why? They have past their so many degrees, examination. How they are lowest of the mankind? Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, because under the influence of māyā all their knowledge has been taken away. They may profess to be very learned men but they are not learned. Their knowledge is already taken away. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāāsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, why māyā has taken their knowledge? Because they are āsuras, against God.

The very name of God, will shudder them. Oh. They think this is old type philosophy, "God where is God? It is science, it is this or that." That's all. So māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. Lost of all knowledge by the influence of māyā. These are the statements in Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā. They are very much proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā but they do not know what is Bhagavad-gītā teaching. But if you ask, "Oh, I am reading Bhagavad-gītā daily." "What do you know about it?" "God is dead." That's all. This is going on.. Yes?

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No. Mūḍhāḥ means ass.

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhāḥ means ass.

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, no. The ass is the first-class symbol of ignorance.

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, why not? Mūḍhāḥ means ass.

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Mūḍhāḥ means ass. Do you mean to say ass is very, laudable animal? He's a, why ass? Ass is loaded with so much bundles of cloth but none of the cloth belongs to him. Similarly a ass means he is loaded with so many books but he does not understand the real relationship with God. Therefore he is ass. Loaded with books only.

You have seen in India the washer man loads the ass with bundles of cloth but none of the cloth belongs to him. He is simply burden of beast. So similarly the modern education they are simply loaded with books but they have no preliminary knowledge that he is part and parcel of God. Therefore he is ass. Compared with this ass. He is simply loaded that's all. We should compare in this way and this mūḍhāḥ, exactly if you see Sanskrit dictionary mūḍhāḥ means the ass.

And ignorance means the animal. What is the difference between man and animal? Animal is ignorant. Now you just., you have seen that one animal is being slaughtered, another animal is standing and eating grass. It does not know the next turns is mine. This is animalism. Ignorance. But added with a., Case in the man, "Oh, this is next one, let me go away from this place."

At least he will try, he will cry, make protest. But there is no protest. Because it is animal. That is the distinction between man and animal. Animal has no knowledge what he is. What is his position in this world. That is animalism.

Guest (2): (indistinct). love devotion and affection.

Prabhupāda: This is love.

Guest (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When father., When father gives you a good slap, that is love. That is not enmity. That is love. Yes?

That is also another foolishness of father is slapping, my enemy. That is another foolishness. You should know, that father cannot be enemy. He is always my friend, that is knowledge. Yes?

Guest (3): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, he was enemy. Because he was wrongly chastising. Because Prahlāda Mahārāja was fully conscious of Kṛṣṇa and he was protesting. That, "Who is Kṛṣṇa. There is no Kṛṣṇa. There is no God." Such father is enemy. Therefore when the father was killed by Nṛsiṁha-deva he did not protest. He could have said, "My Lord." Of course he said in the last but not to protect his body but to protect his soul.

(break) (end of audio)