660718 - Lecture BG 04.07-9 - New York

Lectures by Date, 1966

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

660718BG.NY - July 18, 1966

Prabhupāda: This Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, this is transcendental sound vibration. This is transcendental sound vibration, and this will help us to cleanse the dust on the mirror of our mind. On the mind we have accumulated material dust. Just like on the Second Avenue, due to the constant traffic of motorcar, there is always a creation of dusting over everything, similarly, by our manipulation of materialistic activities, there are some material dust which are accumulated on the mind; therefore we are unable to see things in true perspective.

So this process, this vibration of transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, will cleanse the dust. And as soon as the dust is cleared, then, as you can see on the mirror the nice face of yours, similarly we can see our real, I mean to say, constitutional position, "What I am." And as soon as I understand that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, and my symptom is consciousness," and that consciousness, as it is purified by this process, the whole material miseries will be over. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

In Sanskrit language, it is said . . . Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya's picture you have seen on the showcase. He's dancing, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. This sound vibration of Kṛṣṇa, Hare, Rāma, as soon as the mind is cleared off, then we see our real position, and the immediate result is bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. There is a fire always blazing over this material world. Everyone is trying to extinguish it. But it is not possible to extinguish this fire of material miseries unless we are situated in our pure consciousness of spiritual life. That is the whole thing. Now, we were discussing last meeting:

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

(BG 4.7)

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya

sambhavāmi yuge yuge

(BG 4.8)

Why the Lord comes as incarnation. This point we have been discussing last meeting, and what is dharma, what is religion. Perhaps you'll remember that the translation in the English language, dharma, is a description of certain kind of faith. But according to the Vedic literature, dharma is not a kind of faith. Faith can be changed, but dharma cannot be changed.

This point we have already explained. Just like the liquidity of water cannot be changed. If it is changed . . . suppose the water becomes solid. Under certain temperature, it becomes ice. But that is not its constitutional position. It is under certain condition. Similarly, our position is, our religion, or dharma, is, that we are part and parcel of the Supreme, and with that supreme consciousness we have to dovetail our activities with the Supreme. That is our constitutional position. That service attitude, transcendental service attitude, which has to be dovetailed with the supreme consciousness, is being misused by our material contact.

The service attitude or the engagement is there. Every one of us is a servant. Nobody is a master. He must be serving somebody. This point we have discussed. Even President Johnson, he is the chief man of your state; still, he's a servant of the state. So nobody's master here. To think of oneself that, "I am the master. I am the master of all I survey," this is called māyā, illusion. I am not ser . . . I am not master; I am servant. So my service is now being misused under different designations. So as soon as we become free from the designations, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). That means when we can see exactly the position on the mirror of our mind after dusting over that, "My position, my constitutional position, is that I am eternal servant."

But we should not think that my service in the material world and my service in the spiritual atmosphere is the same. No. It is not the same. We, we are shuddered, "Oh, after liberation, we have to become a servant? Oh." We shudder, because we have no idea that what sort of servant is in the transcendental world. In the transcendental world, there is no distinction between the servant and the master. Here is distinction between the servant and the master, but in the transcendental world, in the absolute world, everything is one. Therefore there is no distinction between servant and master.

For example, we are speaking on the Bhagavad-gītā. Just see the position of Kṛṣṇa. He has taken the position of servant, chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is practically, in his constitutional position, he is the servant of Kṛṣṇa, but in behavior we see, sometimes the Lord becomes the servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80).

So we should not carry the materialistic idea in the spiritual . . . although anything that we materially experience is a perverted reflection only of the spiritual life . . . so that constitutional position, which cannot be changed, which is called dharma, in order to pre . . . when that is deteriorated by contamination of matter, at that time, the Lord Himself comes as incarnation or He sends some of His confidential servitors.

Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he said that, "I am son of God." So he's representative of the Supreme. And similarly, Hazrat Muhammad, he also identified himself as a servant, padat hi bandhaḥ, a servant of the Lord. So this is the position, that whenever there is discrepancy in the natural law of our constitutional position, the master, the Supreme Lord, either He Himself comes in incarnation or He sends some representative to inform us what is actually the position of the living entities. So this is explained here by Lord Kṛṣṇa, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7).

So this position, this dharma, is not exactly a kind of created faith. It is the constitutional position. Dharma means the constitutional position. Just like sugar. Sugar's constitutional position is to become sweet. Salt—constitutional position is to become salty, alkaline taste. And water is liquid. Stone is solid. These specifical . . . specific qualification is called dharma. Similarly, we living entities, we have got a specific qualification: the eternal attitude to serve others. So that, how to serve Kṛṣṇa, how to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how to give up our material engagement in different designations—this science and this truth is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati.

Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām. The sādhu . . . in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the last meeting, I have described to some extent what is the qualification of a sādhu. Sādhu means saintly person. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām (SB 3.25.21).

He's tolerant, he's very kind to everyone, and he's friend to all living entities. He has no enemy, or he is nobody's enemy. And he's peaceful. These are some of the qualification. There are twenty-six qualification in details. But these are some of the qualification. And in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the description of a sādhu, saintly person, is given by the Lord Himself. And what is that? He says:

api cet su-durācāro

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

(BG 9.30)

He said: "Arjuna, a person who is cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he might be externally, ephemerally seen to be addicted to some bad habits. Still, you should consider him to be a saint." "You should consider him to be saint."

What is that? Now, suppose we have contaminated so many things in our material life. There are, in a material calculation, there are so many things which are the list. One list is for morality and another list is for immorality. I do not wish to discuss this list because in . . . for a person which is immorality, for another person it is not immorality—it is morality. Just like according to our conception, hindu conception, drinking of wine is immoral, whereas in your country drinking of wine is not immoral; it is common thing. Of course . . . so according to time, class, place, the conception of morality and immorality are different. But there is a, a sense of immorality and morality in everywhere. That is a fact.

So Kṛṣṇa says that, "Even if you see a person immoral, but he is completely engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it should be concluded that he is a saint. He's a saintly person." That is the description given by Kṛṣṇa of sādhu. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). So in other words, He says, "Any person who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, never mind he might have something externally immoral habits due to his past association—it doesn't matter."

So some way or other, one should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And then, gradually, he will become a saintly person. As he goes on executing this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, with his advancement, he becomes a perfect saint. That you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. And how Kṛṣṇa says that even if he's externally a little immoral . . . of course, a devotee, or a person who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's never immoral. But it may be that due to his past association he may appear to be immoral or he may fall down. Fall down. Due to habits, we may sometimes fall down.

There is a story how habit is the second nature. There was a thief, and he went to pilgrimage with some other friends. So at night, when other friends were sleeping . . . because his habit was to steal at night, so he got up at night and he was taking one body's baggage and tried to pickpocket or take something. But he was thinking, "Oh, I have come to this holy place of pilgrimage. Still, shall I do that, committing theft, my habit? No, no. I shall not do it." So he was taking the bag of one person and was keeping in another place.

So in the whole night the poor fellow did like that. But due to his conscience that, "I have come to this holy place. At least, during my stay here, I shall not do this stealing business." So in the morning, when all other friends got up, everyone said: "Oh, where is my bag? I don't see!" Another man says: "Oh, I don't see my bag." Then somebody says: "Oh, here is your bag!" So there was some row. So they, they thought, "What is the matter? How it so happened?"

Then the thief rose up and told all friends, "My dear gentlemen, I am a thief by occupation, but because I have that habit to steal at night, so I wanted to steal something from your bag, but I thought that 'I have come to this holy place. I shall not do it.' So I placed . . . I might have placed one man's bag in another man's place. So excuse me." So this is the habit. This is the habit. He does not want. He does not want to commit theft, but he has got the habit of doing that. So similarly, here he has decided not to commit theft anymore, but because he's habituated, sometimes he does.

So therefore Kṛṣṇa says: "In that condition, one who has decided to stop all bad or immoral habits and just to make his progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even by chance if he does something which is immoral in the face of the society, that should not be taken account of." Of course, that is by chance. And in the next verse, you'll find, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā: "Because he has dovetailed himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is sure that he will become a saintly, I mean to say, a pure saint very soon. Very soon."

The example is . . . just like the electric fan is going on, and if you put off the switch, you'll see the fan is still going on. But that going on will stop because the switch is already off. Similarly, if one dovetails himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then automatically he'll become a saintly person. Automatically. Because his switch is made off. Just like the fan, when the switch is made off, the current supply is stopped. Now . . . there was a force of running. You may see that it is running for few minutes. But it will stop. Similarly, anyone, it doesn't matter what he is, if he puts himself, dovetails himself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he . . . all his material contamination will be washed off. Washed off. This is the easiest process.

There was many examples. Of course, there are, in scriptures, there are many, many good examples. But it is a fact that anyone who takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he doesn't require to endeavor for becoming a good man, I mean to say, separately. That Kṛṣṇa consciousness will help him to be the best man in the world. Api cet su-durācāraḥ.

And there are other confirmation in the Bhāgavata, that yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12): "Anyone who has attained the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he attains all good qualities automatically." And harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: "Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness . . ." When I speak of Kṛṣṇa, you can take it as God. So in . . . so a person who is devoid of God consciousness, however he may be qualified from the material point of view, the scripture says that his qualification will not help him in doing things which are not desirable. He'll, he'll, he'll not be prohibited to do things which are not desirable. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12): "Because he's devoid of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he's sure to commit mischief in this material world." Now, the next verse is:

janma karma ca me divyam

evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti so 'rjuna

(BG 4.9)

"My dear Arjuna, the reason, the mission, for which I appear is now explained, that I come here to establish the real constitutional position of the living entities. That is My mission. Now, when I come with some mission there are some activities." "There are some activities." So there are some philosophers, they do not agree to accept that God comes as incarnation. They do not believe in this theory. They say that, "Why God shall come to this rotten world?" That is their vision.

But here, from the Bhagavad-gītā, we understand that God comes. We shall always remember that we are reading Bhagavad-gītā, and whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, we have to, at least, we have to accept that. Otherwise, there is no question of reading this Bhagavad-gītā. Here the Lord says that "I am, I am present here as incarnation, and this is My mission." And as He comes with a mission, there are some activities.

Just like Lord Kṛṣṇa is taking part with Arjuna, and He's taking part in the battlefield of the Kurukṣetra, just like ordinary man. When there is war between two parties, somebody takes part with this party or somebody takes part . . . or some nation takes part with one party or another nation takes part with another nation. So here also, we see that Kṛṣṇa is taking part with Arjuna. Partiality. It appears that Kṛṣṇa is partial. So Kṛṣṇa is not partial. But it, externally, it appears that "He is partial. How He can be God?"

Now, therefore this verse is spoken by Lord Kṛṣṇa. So janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9): "My activities and My coming down to this material world is transcendental." Divyam means transcendental. It is not ordinary things.

Just like Kṛṣṇa, we observe in India the Kṛṣṇa's birthday. This month of August, by the end of August, there will be Kṛṣṇa's birthday, and every Indian home, especially the Hindus, never mind in whatever sect or division they belong, they observe Kṛṣṇa's birthday. As here in the Christian world you observe the birthday of Lord Jesus Christ, similarly . . . so janma.

Now, here Kṛṣṇa says that, "My janma, My birth . . ." And because there is birth, there are some activities. Just like we have taken our birth and there are some activities. So this Kṛṣṇa's birth and Kṛṣṇa's activity are transcendental. Transcendental means they are not these material activities. Now, people will be surprised, "How Kṛṣṇa's activities are transcendental? He's taking part with Arjuna. He's taking part in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. Oh, He's born of a father whose name is Vasudeva. And He has got a family," and so on, so on. "So just like us." But He says it is transcendental. Transcendental.

And again He says, divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means "in truth." Simply by knowing, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is born here at Mathurā, and He was brought up by His foster father at Vṛndāvana. Then, when He was grown up, He went back to His father at Dvārakā. And when He was old, He married so many wives and He had children, and there was a Battle of Kurukṣetra, and He took part." These things are there in the history or in the scriptures, but one has to understand this tattvataḥ, tattvataḥ, in truth.

And the one who understands this Kṛṣṇa's birth and activities and His presence tattvataḥ, in truth, then what the result is? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). The result is that any person who understands this Kṛṣṇa's activities, His birth and His pastimes, His paraphernalia, everything, the result will . . . simply by understanding it, the result will be that after leaving this material body, he goes directly to Kṛṣṇa. He goes directly to Kṛṣṇa.

That means he becomes a liberated soul, and he goes to the eternal world, and he becomes in his constitutional position of blissful and knowledge and eternal life—simply by knowing this. Simply by knowing in truth the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa's birth and activities, one is at once promoted to the, I mean, the transcendental world. This is clearly stated here. Tyaktvā deham.

Just like when . . . ordinarily, when we give up these body, we quit this body, we have to accept another body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We have discussed this point that we living entities, our life is going on simply by changing dresses from one body to another, transgression (transmigration) of the soul, according to our work. So this, this body is dress. Therefore I have got an actual body.

Just like at the present moment we think, "This material body is my actual body, and there is dress, shirt and coat. The shirt and coat is superficial to this actual body." But here in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find that we have got our real, spiritual body, separate from the material covering. And as we give up old garments, old dress, and take up another new dress, another new garment, similarly, we give up this body, material body, when it is old enough, when it cannot be used or . . . then we give it up, and we take another body. And this change of body is going on every moment and every second. This point also we have discussed. That, that particular verse:

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

Just like the, the entity, living entity, is in the body . . . just like a child. The living entity's there. The body is very small. But that small body is growing, growing. That is changing, changing. And growing, growing, that small child becomes a boy, grown-up boy. And that grown-up boy gradually becomes a youth. And then that youth becomes an old man, old man. And then, after, at the end, when the body's no more useful, he changes to another body. So this death means the ultimate change of the present body.

So this body's changing. Now, Kṛṣṇa says that as the body is changing, still, the person whose body is this, he's there. He's there. The child is grown up to a boyhood. That does not mean the living entity who came out as a baby is gone. No, he's still there, but his body has changed. Now, you cannot find the small body which came out of the mother's womb when the grown-up boy. And you cannot find in a youth that grown, grown-up boyhood photograph, or the body. That is gone.

So every moment we are having a new body. And that is a medical science truth. Medical science, it is . . . we are having new body every moment. Similarly, when we take another body, oh, a person who knows things as they are, they are not bewildered. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means who is conscious of this bodily change, who knows things as they are, he's not, I mean to . . . bewildered. He's not, he's, he's steady, "Oh, he has changed his body. That's all."

A person who does not know, he's crying. He . . . "Oh, my son is gone. My son is gone. My son is gone." But if he's, I mean to say, in the consciousness, he knows, "Oh, my son has simply changed the body." That's all. Just immediately, exactly, "My son, when he was little baby . . . now he has grown up to be a boy." So the father and the parents do not lament, "Oh, where my that son gone, that small baby gone?" Similarly, that change of body . . .

So our body is like that. We are changing, in the material condition. In the material condition we are simply changing our body. That is our disease. This conditional life of changing the body, one after another, one after . . . not only human body. We may have to change to animal's body or to another demigod's body. There are different species of life. I have several times spoken before you that there are 8,400,000's of species of life. So our body's being changed in this circle of these 8,400,000's of different species of life. This is called our material bondage.

Now, here Kṛṣṇa says that one who knows the Kṛṣṇa's transcendental birth and activities in truth, he gets free from this entanglement. He at once gets free from this entanglement. Now, here the word tattvataḥ is very important. The tattvataḥ is the science of Kṛṣṇa. Tattvataḥ, "in truth." Simply by knowing by historical fact that Kṛṣṇa is born in such-and-such date, in such-and-such place, in such-and-such family, He did such-and-such activity . . . but no. One has to learn that in tattvataḥ, in truth. Then he becomes free from this bodily entanglement. How it is closed?

Now, how that tattvataḥ, in truth, the Kṛṣṇa science, how one can understand? Kṛṣṇa science, that is explained in the Eighteenth Chapter, how Kṛṣṇa science can be understood. Kṛṣṇa science can be understood by this devotional service. You'll find this verse, that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. The truth of Kṛṣṇa science can be understood by become . . . by becoming a devotee, or a person of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can simply understand what is this science of Kṛṣṇa; others cannot.

Now, it is very clearly stated, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Bhaktyā means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: "One can understand Me very clearly by the process of that devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And in the Fourth . . . beginning of the Fourth Chapter, we have also discussed that Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that, "I am speaking to you the old process of yoga system, this bhakti-yoga system of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Bhagavad-gītā, unto you because you are My devotee."

This point also we have discussed, that without becoming a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, nobody can understand the mystery of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is not a book that you can purchase from the market and simply by your scholarship you can understand it. No. It is not possible. That, that point we have discussed. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3): "You are, because you are My devotee . . ." Kṛṣṇa . . . Arjuna was ordinary family man. He was a military man. And Kṛṣṇa said that "I am speaking to you." He was not a Vedic Vedāntist or a very good scholar in Vedānta philosophy, or he was not a brāhmaṇa, or he was not a renouncer, nothing of the sort.

He was a military man. Kṛṣṇa . . . Arjuna was a military man, and he was a family man. He was to look after the interest of his family. Still, Kṛṣṇa selected him to be the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Why? Now, bhakto 'si: "Because you are My devotee." So that is the qualification.

So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is the qualification to understand Bhagavad-gītā as well as to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. Therefore we have to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And what is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Now, this process which you have adopted, which you have adopted: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, this chanting and this hearing of Bhagavad-gītā . . . Bhagavad-gītā hearing as it is, from persons who are engaged in this business, that will help us to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And as soon as we become Kṛṣṇa conscious, Kṛṣṇa also help us to understand. In the Bhāgavata there is a verse:

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ

hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi

vidhunoti suhṛt satām

(SB 1.2.17)

Kṛṣṇa is always present in your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām . . . īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). You'll find in Bhagavad-gītā: "The Lord is present in everyone's heart as Supersoul." We are both, the soul, living entity, and the Supersoul, both are in the, sitting in this tree of body. One is eating the fruit, another is witness.

That is also described in the Vedas. The Lord is there. So as soon as you begin the process of devotional service and gradually develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then Lord, who is sitting within your heart, He will help you.

Śṛṇvatām . . . how He'll help you? He'll help you in the same process, dusting over, I mean to say, dust out, to take out all the dirty things which have accumulated within our mind. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi. Abhadrāṇi means the dirty things. The dirty things which we have accumulated by our material association, Kṛṣṇa will help us to remove that dirt. Hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām. Because He is a friend of all saintly person. He's a friend. So our endeavor to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is a saintly endeavor, and so He also cooperates.

And this is the process, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam, śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam (SB 7.5.23) chanting and hearing of this Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with aural reception, submissive aural reception. That very process will teach us the truth of the Kṛṣṇa science, and when we understand the Kṛṣṇa science, automatically we understand what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as we understand Kṛṣṇa, the next result is that after leaving this material, this present material body, we go at once to the kingdom of Kṛṣṇa. This is the whole process. Tyaktvā deham . . . tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Then he does not come again to this miserable world. He goes back to Godhead, back to home. And what is that home? That you'll find: yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6).

Such description is there also in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is the position of that transcendental world. Na tad bhāsayate sūryaḥ: there is no . . . there is no need of the sun; there is no need of the moon; there is no need of electricity. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. So this is this world. This material world is dark, is always dark. Therefore here we require the sun and the moon and the electric light. Otherwise, it is dark. As soon as the electricity will fail, then whole city will be in darkness.

So the nature of this . . . and the Vedic mantra also says that "Don't remain in this darkness." Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya (Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1.3.28): "Just try to transfer yourself in that illuminated world." Jyotir gamaya. Jyoti means illumination. So this world, this material world, is full of darkness. Darkness, one meaning of darkness is ignorance. And another darkness, you know, without . . . absence of light. So this nature of this material world is darkness. So if we understand the Kṛṣṇa science and the activities of Kṛṣṇa: how He comes, how He works, what is the mission of His activity . . .

Because as the Supreme Lord, He has nothing to do. But why He comes? In the Vedic literature you'll find, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8).

The description of the Supreme Brahman is described there, that, upaniṣad . . . na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate: "The Supreme, the Absolute, He has nothing to do." He has nothing to do. Just like if we want to do, have something, we have to do. But there, the Absolute, He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate.

Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8). And there is nobody who is equal to Him and nobody who is above Him. That means everyone is below Him. Nobody equal to Him and nobody above Him; that means everybody is below. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8): "The Supreme has got many, manifold energies." Therefore everything is done, svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca.

And His knowledge and His activities are svābhāvikī, natural. Natural. Just like we have to acquire knowledge from a greater personality, but He has got all the natural, all knowledge. Just like Kṛṣṇa is speaking this Bhagavad-gītā to Arjuna, but He was never taught of Bhagavad-gītā. I am speaking to you Bhagavad-gītā, just learning from my spiritual master. So I have to learn it. But when Kṛṣṇa spoke, He hadn't . . . had not to learn it. He had no business to learn it. Because svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca: His knowledge is natural.

So these things are to be understand. That one who understands the science of Kṛṣṇa in truth, then the benefit is, the result is that he, he no more comes back to this world of darkness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Neither he has to undergo the repeated birth and death. We are just now undergoing the term of repeated birth and death under different species of life. So that thing will be stopped.

So human, human mission, human life should be utilized for this purpose. This is the dharma. This is real our engagement. We have diverted our engagement for satisfying our material needs. Oh, that is not the mission of human being. That is the mission of lower animals.

āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca

sāmānyam etat paśubhiḥ narāṇām

dharmo hi teṣām adhiko viśeṣo

dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ

(Hitopadeśa 25)

This is the mission, that āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. These are our material needs: the problem of eating, the problem of sleeping, or shelter, the problem of defense and the problem of sense gratification. These four problems are common to the human being and to the animals. The animals have also got these problems—eating, sleeping, defending and, what is called? Sense gratification. We have got also those problems. So they are also trying to solve these problems, and if we are also engaged in simply solving these problems, then what is the difference between the animals and the human being?

The human being . . . the next line says dharmo hi teṣām adhiko viśeṣaḥ. The human being has got a special qualification by which he can develop this transcendental Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if he does not do that, then he's in the category of the animals.

So the defect of modern civilization is that we are giving too much stress for simply for solving these problems: eating, sleeping, defending and sense gratification. But as spiritual being, as spiritual living entity, we have got the necessity of getting out of this entanglement of repeated birth and death, and if we do not care for it, then we shall be missing the opportunity. And Lord Kṛṣṇa comes to teach us how you can utilize your human form of life for the ultimate goal of your life.

This material, whole material creation is there just to give you a chance to have your things done nicely. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This material creation is giving a chance. But even after getting the chance, and even after getting the supreme body of human life, we do not develop this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and just to get rid of this material entanglement, then we shall be missing the opportunity.

So everyone's duty is that he should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness by engaging himself in this process of śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, chanting and hearing, the simple process. You have nothing to do. Simply if you give aural reception, that will clear everything within your mind, and you . . . you'll get enlightenment, because Kṛṣṇa will help you. He's present within. You have simply to, I mean to say, spare a little time. You, you'll see actually. If you kindly spare a little time in this process which we have adopted here, you'll feel yourself . . . nobody has to canvass you that "Oh, whether you are making your progress?" No. You'll understand it. Because it is actual, you'll understand it.

Just like a hungry man. If he's given foodstuff, he knows how far he's satisfied. Nobody has to certify that, "You are satisfied." He will say: "Yes, I am satisfied. I have had very good foodstuff." Similarly, this is the thing. If you kindly spare a little time, you'll feel yourself how much you are making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and how much making progress in your human mission of life.

So I shall request you that we are just trying to, just endeavor, our poor endeavor . . . it is, still, it is our duty to do it. If you kindly take advantage of this opportunity, both we shall be benefited. Then that is the process we have adopted here, the Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and I invite you all to come and take part in it and make your life successful.

Thank you very much. Any question?

You have to associate yourself with persons who are in that business. Then gradually you'll also develop the sense and you'll also become. So there is no cause of disappointment that because you have no taste for such things. So this is the chance. It is our duty to give chance everybody to have this opportunity, because we have dedicated our life for this service. So we are ready. So you take advantage of our humble service, and then you'll understand and you'll know. There will be no difficulty. Yes?

Guest (1): Swāmījī, you mentioned about Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Are you referring to self-realization when you mentioned that Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Guest (1): Are you referring to self-realization, cosmic consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means cosmic consciousness. Kṛṣṇa . . . when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, you don't take any personal view. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. So all-attraction is there in the cosmic. Cosmic consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Guest (1): Well, I believe that most of the Westerners do not know the meaning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Then that we are explaining here.

Guest (1): You have yet to explain that it's cosmic consciousness, self-realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are explaining Kṛṣṇa consciousness here. And as you say, that most of the Westerners, they do not know the meaning. So we are present here to explain the meaning. So that is our humble service. Because Kṛṣṇa and Bhagavad-gītā is very well known in the Western countries, and there are so many editions and publication of Bhagavad-gītā, both in Europe and America and other parts of Asia. Kṛṣṇa is more or less well known. But actually, the science of Kṛṣṇa is not so well known. Therefore we have put up this association, International Association of Society for Krishna Consciousness.

Guest (1): I believe that most of the Westerners read the Bhagavad-gītā, Upaniṣads . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (1): . . . the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): I believe that would have been a greater understanding of . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say Kṛṣṇa in con . . . because most of them are acquainted with the Bhagavad-gītā, and the speaker of Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is also well known to them. But actually what is Kṛṣṇa, the science of Kṛṣṇa, they do not know. So this humble attempt is to just to present the science of Kṛṣṇa to them. And I wish that they may take advantage of this opportunity. So any other question?

Guest (2): Swāmījī, may I ask you a question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): Do you teach self-realization?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): Do you teach self-realization?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is self-realization.

Guest (2): Do you initiate?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): Do you initiate?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I initiate also. Well, this is the process of self-realization, to know . . .

Guest (2): Then you are an authority on self-rea . . . on initiation and self-realization, by self-realization?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And, of course, I do not know whether I am authority, but my spiritual master has authorized me to do this.

Guest (2): That's, that's all right. That's sufficient. That's sufficient.

Prabhupāda: I, I, I do not think myself an authority. I am just to serve the order of my spiritual master. That's all.

Guest (2): Yes. Very good. But I suppose you know that in the Western countries lots have been initiated and have never had the, the chance to be initiated by the master in order to initiate others. Quite a few, they have been.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Of course the, we . . . if we . . .

Guest (2): That's a responsibility in itself.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.

Guest (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So any other question? That, that, that, I mean to say, authority is very simple. It is not very difficult. Just like you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that self-realization, as far Bhagavad-gītā, was taught to Arjuna. Now, how Arjuna understood it, that is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā. Simply if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood it, then you also become self-realized. So it is not a very difficult job.

Unfortunately, people apply their own scholastic ideas in a different way, and they murder the whole thing. You see? The simple thing is that if we understand it as it is, then it is as simple as anything. But if you want to . . .

Just like in our . . . in Bengal there is proverb, ghuriye nag nag naki. Now, you are asking me . . . just like sometimes we ask small child, "Where is your nose?" He says: "It is nose." "Where is your eye?" "It is eye." So that is a simple thing. But one child . . . not child. One man is asked, "Where is your nose?" He says: "Oh, here is my nose. Here is my nose," this is simple thing. But one should show, "Oh, here is my nose." So Bhagavad-gītā is interpreted like that, "Here is my nose." Nobody shows that "Here is my nose." You see?

So that is the difficulty. They have created difficult, create a situation of this Bhagavad-gītā under, I mean to say, catastrophe. So if you, any sincere student who will take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, this self-realization is as cheap as anything.

Guest (2): Swāmījī, I suppose that lots of people do not realize.

Prabhupāda: No. It, simply, simply we have to hear it as it is. Don't try to interpret in a different way. The, the whole mischief is that everyone has got his own philosophy. And Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book, and he wants to prove his own philosophy through Bhagavad-gītā. Because he wants to be important man and he wants to show that "Here is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā," and they present some jugglery of words and mislead the people.

Just like I have repeatedly mentioned here that in our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he had his philosophy of nonviolence, and he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā. But Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the war field. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken when Arjuna was in problem whether to fight or not to fight. That is the, I mean, the background of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, if anyone wants to prove that Bhagava . . . in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence, then you, you, it is something else. Violence is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. So similarly, we should not try to under . . .

(aside) Yes!

We should not try to understand Bhagavad-gītā according to my viewpoint of view. I must understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is presented by Kṛṣṇa. Then it is easy. Then it is easy. (end)