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[[Category:1976 - Conversations]]
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[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
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[[Category:1976-12 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Hyderabad]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Hyderabad]]
[[category:Conversations with Media]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 45.01 to 60.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Conversations|1976]]'''</div>
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Prabhupāda: ...the right side is darkness. (Hindi)


Guest (1) (Indian reporter): Obviously we have selected darkness. That is what we want to do. We want to go into light later on.
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[[Vanipedia:761216 - Interview - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Hyderabad|''' <span style="display: flex; align-items: center; justify-content: center"><b class="fa fa-solid fa-volume-up" style="font-size: 330%">&nbsp;</b><big>Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture'''</big></span>]]</div>
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Prabhupāda: You are requesting something... Veda says, "Come to the light." Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya: "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light."


Guest (2): We want more light.
<div class="code">761216PC-HYDERABAD - December 16, 1976 - 46.59 Minutes</div>


Prabhupāda: Yes.


Guest (2): Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya.  
<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/761216PC-HYDERABAD_mono.mp3</mp3player>


Prabhupāda: Yes, that is desirable in human. Otherwise the animals are in darkness. They do not know what is God. But a human being, because he has got this human form of body, he can come to the light. So all the śāstras are for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if you do not take advantage of the śāstras, then you remain in the darkness. This is our position. The light is here. Just like apart from all other śāstras, if you take Bhagavad-gītā, it is the very brilliant light. It is not that changing. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, what, that is still the same thing. Just like light. Millions of years ago, what was sun, the same sun is there. In the light there is no change. In the darkness there is change. If we do not accept the standard knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, then we shall continue to remain in darkness and there will be no solution of the problems of life. This is our propaganda. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are asking everywhere, all over the world, "You come to this light and be happy." That's it.


Guest (1): Swamiji, tell us something good, this āśrama, that you're doing.
'''Prabhupāda:''' <span style="color:#ec710e">Ye light side, ye darkness, idhar jaiye ya idhar jayiye.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(This is the light side, and this is darkness. You go this way or this way.)</span>


Prabhupāda: That Mahāṁśa... Where is Mahāṁśa? Āśrama means an attempt to give some light. That is the difference...
'''Indian reporter (1):''' Obviously we have selected darkness. That is what we want to do. We want to go into light later on.


Guest (3): According to us, even in lightness there is darkness.
'''Prabhupāda:''' You are requesting something . . . ''Veda'' says: "Come to the light." ''Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya'': "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light."


Prabhupāda: No, that is not light. That is called...
'''Indian reporter (2):''' We want more light.


Guest (3): There also it can grow from one level to higher level.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: ... ābhāsa. Ābhāsa. Just like in the morning there is no full sunshine, but there is some glimpse of light. That is not real light. Real light is full sunshine but before the sun rises fully there is some light. That light and this light different. We have to come to the full light. Then our life will be success. Not partial light. That will not help. The full light you can get from the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.
'''Indian reporter (2):''' ''Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya''.


Dr. Ramachandra: Jyotiṣām api taj jyotis tamasaḥ param ucyate.  
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is desirable in human. Otherwise the animals are in darkness. They do not know what is God. But a human being, because he has got this human form of body, he can come to the light. So all the ''śāstras'' are for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if you do not take advantage of the ''śāstras'', then you remain in the darkness. This is our position. The light is here. Just like apart from all other ''śāstras'', if you take ''Bhagavad-gītā'', it is the very brilliant light. It is not that changing. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, what, that is still the same thing. Just like light. Millions of years ago, what was sun, the same sun is there. In the light there is no change. In the darkness there is change. If we do not accept the standard knowledge of ''Bhagavad-gītā'', then we shall continue to remain in darkness, and there will be no solution of the problems of life. This is our propaganda. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are asking everywhere, all over the world, "You come to this light and be happy." That's it.


Prabhupāda: Yes. yes. Yes. So you take light from Kṛṣṇa. And that is full light, and you'll be happy. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't be satisfied with glimpse of light. Take full light. And that is open to everyone just like the sunshine is open to everyone. If you want to remain in the darkness, in the room, that is your business but you come to the... You can come to the full sunlight. That you can do. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. He is speaking everything openly. There is no secret mantra. Everything is there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. This is open to everyone. Where is the difficulty? Unless we deny to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, there is no secret. Everything is open. But our leaders and scholars, they do not like to take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. We are therefore insisting, we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no interpretation. They say, "Why not interpretation?" That is the defect. We say no interpretation. You take Kṛṣṇa as it is, that's all. Then your life is successful.
'''Indian reporter (1):''' Swamiji, tell us something good this ''āśrama'', that you're doing.


Guest (2): No interpretation is it?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Let Mahāṁśa . . . where is Mahāṁśa? ''Āśrama'' means an attempt to give some light. That is the difference . . .


Prabhupāda: What interpretation you can give? He is authority and what you are? You can give interpretation?
'''Indian reporter (3):''' According to us, even in lightness there is darkness. Even in that it can be.


Guest (1): It is self yoga necessity (?).
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that is not light. That is called . . .


Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Simply... Yes. No, Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [[BG 7.7]] . There is no more superior authority, more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, He proved it. There was nobody superior than Him. That's a fact. Still He is superior. His Bhagavad-gītā is being studied all over the world with respect, determination, because He is still superior. That is superior.
'''Indian reporter (3):''' There also it can grow from one level to higher level.


Dr. Ramachandra:
'''Prabhupāda:''' That is ''ābhāsa. Ābhāsa''. Just like in the morning there is no full sunshine, but there is some glimpse of light. That is not real light. Real light is full sunshine, but before the sun rises fully there is some light. That light and this light different. We have to come to the full light. Then our life will be success. Not partial light. That will not help. The full light you can get from the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.


<div class="conv_verse">
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Jyotiṣām api taj jyotis tamasaḥ param ucyate''.
athavā bahunaitena<br />
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna<br />
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam<br />
ekāṁśena sthito jagat<br />
[[BG 10.42]]
</div>


Prabhupāda: And we are not changing. Because five thousand years have passed therefore, we have to make some additional, no.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, yes. Yes.  


Guest (1): Then why should there be so many commentaries upon it?
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ jñāna-gamyaṁ hṛdi sarvasya viṣṭhitam''.


Prabhupāda: They are rascaldom, that's all. Simple word, rascaldom.
'''Prabhupāda:''' So you take light from Kṛṣṇa. And that is full light, and you'll be happy. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't be satisfied with glimpse of light. Take full light. And that is open to everyone just like the sunshine is open to everyone. If you want to remain in the darkness, in the room, that is your business. But you come to the . . . you can come to the full sunlight. That you can do. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. He is speaking everything openly. There is no secret ''mantra''. Everything is there. ''Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām'' ([[BG 18.65 (1972)|BG 18.65]]). This is open to everyone. Where is the difficulty? Unless we deny to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, there is no secret. Everything is open. But our leaders and scholars, they do not like to take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. We are therefore insisting, we are presenting ''Bhagavad-gītā'' as it is, no interpretation. They say: "Why not interpretation?" That is the defect. We say no interpretation. You take Kṛṣṇa as it is, that's all. Then your life is successful.


Devotee: Rascaldom.
'''Indian reporter (2):''' No interpretation is it?


Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot interpret on the words of God. You cannot interpret. Just like law. There is law by the government. You cannot interpret in your own way. You have to accept it. "Keep to the right"—no interpretation. You must keep to the right. That is law. If you say, "What is wrong if I go to the left?" Actually if one goes to the left, it is not very... But you cannot do it. As soon as you do it, you are criminal. You'll be punished. That is law. The dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [[SB 6.3.19]] . This is dharma. If you want a general definition of dharma, or religion, that is given in the śāstra that " Dharma means the law given by God." That is dharma. You cannot manufacture dharma. And because we are manufacturing so many dharmas, mental concoctions, there is no peace. And Kṛṣṇa therefore says that "You give up this rascaldom." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [[SB 6.3.19]] .
'''Prabhupāda:''' What interpretation you can give? He is authority, and what you are? You can give interpretation?


Dr. Ramachandra: Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te...  
'''Indian reporter (1):''' It is self . . . (indistinct) . . . necessity.


Prabhupāda: The śāstra means what is spoken by God and His representative. That's all. That is śāstra. Unless Kṛṣṇa accepts śāstra, how He saying like that? Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te. Śāstra should be...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes. Simply . . . yes. No, Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa says, ''mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat'' ([[BG 7.7 (1972)|BG 7.7]]). There is no more superior authority, more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, He proved it. There was nobody superior than Him. That's a fact. Still He is superior. His ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is being studied all over the world with respect, determination, because He is still superior. That is superior.


Dr. Ramachandra: Some śāstras must be existing before...
'''Dr. Ramachandra:'''


Prabhupāda: Eh?
:''athavā bahunaitena''
:''kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna''
:''viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam''
:''ekāṁśena sthito jagat''
:([[BG 10.42 (1972)|BG 10.42]])


Dr. Ramachandra: Some śāstras after, existing before Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna.
'''Prabhupāda:''' And we are not changing. Because, five thousand years have passed, therefore we have to make some additional. No.


Prabhupāda: Śāstra? Śāstra means it is authorized. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is śāstra because it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Therefore all the ācāryas, they accept it. Still the ācārya-sampradāyas are there. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śaṅkara, they accept all this. And at the time of...
'''Indian reporter (1):''' Then why should there be so many commentaries upon it?


Guest (2): Do you accept the supremacy of the Vedas, veda-pramāṇam.  
'''Prabhupāda:''' They are rascaldom, that's all. Simple word, rascaldom.


Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [[BG 15.15]] . And if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then you do not know what is Veda. Your knowledge of Vedas will be accepted when you understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you do not know what Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of taking so much trouble to study Vedas? You do not know anything. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [[BG 15.15]] .  
'''Devotee:''' Rascaldom.


Dr. Ramachandra: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti .
'''Indian reporter (1):''' Rascaldom. I see.


Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. That is knowledge.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. You cannot interpret on the words of God. You cannot interpret. Just like law. There is law by the government. You cannot interpret in your own way. You have to accept it. "Keep to the right"—no interpretation. You must keep to the right. That is law. If you say, "What is wrong if I go to the left?" Actually if one goes to the left, it is not very . . . but you cannot do it. As soon as you do it, you are criminal, you'll be punished. That is law. The ''dharma'' means ''dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam'' ([[SB 6.3.19|SB 6.3.19]]). This is ''dharma''. If you want a general definition of ''dharma'', or religion, that is given in the ''śāstra'' that, "''Dharma'' means the law given by God." That is ''dharma''. You cannot manufacture ''dharma''. And because we are manufacturing so many ''dharmas'', mental concoctions, there is no peace. And Kṛṣṇa therefore says that "You give up this rascaldom." ''Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]).


Dr. Ramachandra: Sa mahātmā.  
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te'' . . .


Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā. If you do not know vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [[BG 7.19]] , śrama eva hi kevalam: [[BG 7.19]] simply you have labored hard. That's all. You have gained nothing. And if you understood Vāsudeva, then you understood everything. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati.  
'''Prabhupāda:''' The ''śāstra'' means what is spoken by God and His representative. That's all. That is ''śāstra''. Unless Kṛṣṇa accepts ''śāstra'', how He is saying like that? ''Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te. Śāstra'' should be . . .


Dr. Ramachandra: How do you explain vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi?
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Some ''śāstras'' must be existing before . . .


Prabhupāda: Yes, He's the chief of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [[BG 10.8]] . That is the... He is the origin of everything. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. If you know the root, then you know the whole tree, where to water. If you water the root, so it, water goes. It goes to the highest twigs. You haven't got to take trouble to go to the up to pour water. You pour water in the root. This is the way.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Guest (1): Once He says, vāsudevaḥ sarvam, and again He says, vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi. So the meaning of that word is...
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Some ''śāstras'' after, existing before Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna.


Prabhupāda: So does it mean that He is not sarvam? One who does not understand vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [[BG 7.19]] , particular, "It is also vāsudeva. It is also vāsudeva. It is also vāsudeva, " that is called less intelligent. Otherwise one who is intelligent, he'll under..., vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: [[BG 7.19]] "Everything is vāsudeva. " Sa mahātmā. But if he has no intelligence, then "I am this, I am God. I am Kṛṣṇa." The same example, just like here is a tree. If I say, "The root, you pour water," here is everything. Otherwise this is also tree, the leaf is also tree, the twig also tree, the flower is also tree... You go on like that. They are of the same value. But if one is intelligent, he will understand, "Here is everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam, the root. That's all. What is that?
'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Śāstra''? ''Śāstra'' means it is authorized. Just like ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is ''śāstra'' because it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Therefore all the ''ācāryas'', they accept it. Still the ''ācārya-sampradāyas'' are there. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śaṅkara, they accept all this. And at the time of . . .


Devotee: I was just telling this gentleman that the reporters may have some other questions also.
'''Indian reporter (2):''' Do you accept the supremacy of the ''Vedas'', ''veda-pramāṇam''?


Prabhupāda: Then that is his wish. (pause) This is our movement.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. ''Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ'' ([[BG 15.15 (1972)|BG 15.15]]). And if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then you do not know what is Veda. Your knowledge of ''Vedas'' will be accepted when you understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you do not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of taking so much trouble to study ''Vedas''? You do not know anything. ''Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]).


Guest (4): Through meditation you attain mukti?
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti''.


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti''. That is knowledge.


Guest (4): Through meditation ultimately you attain Him.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Sa mahātmā''.


Prabhupāda: What do you mean by meditation?
'''Prabhupāda:''' ''Sa mahātmā''. If you do not know ''vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]), ''śrama eva hi kevalam'' ([[SB 1.2.8|SB 1.2.8]]): simply you have labored hard. That's all. You have gained nothing. And if you understood Vāsudeva, then you understood everything. ''Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati'' (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3).


Guest (4): I don't know, but normally it is understood to be...
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' How do you explain ''vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi''?


Prabhupāda: Then why you are talking of meditation?
'''Devotee:''' Tell again.


Guest (4): Normally as it is understood by.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi''.


Prabhupāda: What is that?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, He's the chief of everything. ''Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]). That is the . . . He is the origin of everything. ''Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate''. If you know the root, then you know the whole tree, where to water. If you water the root, so it . . . water goes. It is goes to the highest twigs. You haven't got to take trouble to go to the up to pour water. You pour water in the root. This is the way.


Guest (4): Concentration.
'''Indian reporter (1):''' Once He says, ''vāsudevaḥ sarvam'', and again He says, ''vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi''. So the meaning of that word is . . .


Prabhupāda: Which concentration? What is the subject?
'''Prabhupāda:''' So does it mean that He is not ''sarvam''? One who does not understand ''vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]), particular, "It is also Vāsudeva. It is also Vāsudeva. It is also Vāsudeva," that is called less intelligent. Otherwise, one who is intelligent, he'll under . . . ''vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti'': "Everything is Vāsudeva." ''Sa mahātmā''. But if he has no intelligence, then "I am this, I am God. I am Kṛṣṇa." The same example, just like here is a tree. If I say, "The root, you pour water," here is everything. Otherwise this is also tree. The leaf is also tree, the twig also tree, the flower is also tree . . . you go on like that. They are of the same value. But if one is intelligent, he will understand, "Here is everything," ''vāsudevaḥ sarvam'', the root. That's all. (devotee talking) What is that?


Guest (4): It can be from man to man, from... One may do it on Kṛṣṇa and one may do it on...
'''French devotee:''' I was just telling this gentleman that the reporters may have some other questions also.


Prabhupāda: That is not standard. If meditation is according to one's whims, that is not meditation.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Then that is his wish.  


Guest (4): But it depends upon the faith.
(pause)  


Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, meditation means to meditate upon God. That is meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [[SB 12.13.1]] . Yoginaḥ, those who are yogis, they meditate upon the form of the Lord.
'''Prabhupāda:''' This is our movement.


Guest (4): So through that, you...
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Through meditation you attain mukti?


Prabhupāda: That is meditation.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Guest (4): Yes.
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Through meditation ultimately you attain Him.


Prabhupāda: Other things, they have manufactured concoctions.
'''Prabhupāda:''' What do you mean by meditation?


Guest (4): Maybe, but through that, you say you attain God, is it?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' I don't know, but normally it is understood to be . . .


Prabhupāda: Hm?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Then why you are talking of meditation?


Guest (4): You attain God or what is the concept?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Normally as it is understood by . . .


Prabhupāda: Yes. Meditation means Kṛṣṇa. He says meditation. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Just concentrate your mind upon Me." This is meditation.
'''Prabhupāda:''' What is that?


Guest (4): Then, in due course of time, do you see Him? Or in what form?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Concentration.


Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately you see Him. Kṛṣṇa's picture is there. Kṛṣṇa's picture and Kṛṣṇa is not different. So if you concentrate upon Kṛṣṇa, you immediately see Him.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Which concentration? What is the subject?


Guest (4): You see Him.
'''Indian reporter (4):''' It can be from man to man, from . . . one may do it on Kṛṣṇa, and one may do it on . . .


Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately. But if you think Kṛṣṇa has no form, then it is difficult. Immediately. Now He says, man-manāḥ. He personally says, man-manāḥ, so where is the difficulty?
'''Prabhupāda:''' That is not standard. If meditation is according to one's whims, that is not meditation.


Guest (4): No, the form of the light, you see or...?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' But it depends upon the faith.


Prabhupāda: Why light? With two hands, two legs, He is speaking, man-manāḥ: "Me." Why light? Light is another feature of His existence, but He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Therefore we are presenting. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ [[BG 18.65]] .  
'''Prabhupāda:''' According to ''śāstra'', meditation means to meditate upon God. That is meditation. ''Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ'' ([[SB 12.13.1|SB 12.13.1]]). ''Yoginaḥ'', those who are ''yogīs'', they meditate upon the form of the Lord.


Guest (4): In other words, do mean to say that you see Him in three dimensions?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' So through that, you . . .


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Prabhupāda:''' That is meditation.


Guest (4): You see Him in three dimensions?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: Unlimited dimension. Three dimension for you because You cannot see Him. Otherwise He is unlimited. That's it. But you cannot see unlimited. That is His mercy, that He presents Himself before you in three dimension because you have no eyes to see Him in His unlimited dimension. That is not possible. So it is His mercy. But He is not limited with three dimensions.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Other things, they have manufactured concoctions.


Guest (4): No, no, I'm not saying He is limited. As a man sees.
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Maybe, but through that, you say you attain God, is it?


Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he is limited...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Hmm?


Guest (4): As the man's concentration through which progresses, how, in what forms he goes on seeing Him? That is what my question is.
'''Indian reporter (4):''' You attain God, or what is the concept?


Prabhupāda: Therefore question is just simplified, that... Therefore we establish temple: "Here is Kṛṣṇa." That's all. If you say that "Kṛṣṇa is all pervading. Why shall I come to the temple?" And why not in the temple if He's all-pervading? But you say, "No, I am not going to see in the temple. I shall see outside in the sky." Then you don't see. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is everywhere; why not in the temple? What is that argument? He is here also. But according to my capacity I can see temple, Kṛṣṇa, very easily. So Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. You come daily to the temple and see Him and think of Him. There is no...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Meditation means Kṛṣṇa. He says meditation. ''Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ'': "Just concentrate your mind upon Me." This is meditation.


Mahāṁśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I introduce the project over here?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' Then, in due course of time, do you see Him? Or in what form?


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, immediately you see Him. Kṛṣṇa's picture is there. Kṛṣṇa's picture and Kṛṣṇa is not different. So if you concentrate upon Kṛṣṇa, you immediately see Him.


Mahāṁśa: May I introduce the press to the project over here?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' You see Him.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, immediately. But if you think Kṛṣṇa has no form, then it is difficult. Immediately. Now He says, ''man-manāḥ''. He personally says man-manāḥ, so where is the difficulty?


Mahāṁśa: So by Kṛṣṇa's grace we have been given this plot of land which is 565 acres exactly, in two villages, that is, Dublipur(?) and Kanaipali villages. Lands are situated in the jurisdiction of these...
'''Indian reporter (4):''' No, the form of the light, you see or . . .?


Guest (5): Dublipur(?) and what is the other?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Why light? With two hands, two legs, He is speaking, ''man-manāḥ'': "Me." Why light? Light is another feature of His existence, but He says, ''man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru''. Therefore we are presenting. ''Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ'' ([[BG 18.68 (1972)|BG 18.68]]).


Mahāṁśa: Kanaipali. And the lands were originally in the Venkateshvara Gorakshini Trust, and they have transferred these lands to ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust under the chairmanship of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. So our interest here is to... This area, the whole area here, is very dry. Although there is potency of..., there is potential for tapping water, it has been left dry and unused just like so much land all over. You can see. There is so much land which is unused, vacant, just like this. So we have been given this piece of land. We want to set an example of how such wasted land can be, with proper management and organization, it can be made usable to grow food, abundant food grains and fruits and to feed unlimited...
'''Indian reporter (4):''' In other words, do mean to say that you see Him in three dimensions?


Prabhupāda: And offer them to Kṛṣṇa and distribute prasādam.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Mahāṁśa: Yes.
'''Indian reporter (4):''' You see Him in three dimensions?


Prabhupāda: That is our mission. We are already giving prasādam daily in the evening. There is no question of making profit.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Unlimited dimension. Three dimension for you because You cannot see Him. Otherwise He is unlimited. That's it. But you cannot see unlimited. That is His mercy, that He presents Himself before you in three dimension because you have no eyes to see Him in His unlimited dimension. That is not possible. So it is His mercy. But He is not limited with three dimensions.


Guest (5): So anyone can come and live here.
'''Indian reporter (4):''' No, no, I'm not saying He is limited. As the man sees.


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Because he is limited . . .


Guest (5): Irrespective of religion...
'''Indian reporter (4):''' As the man's concentration through which progresses, how, in what forms he goes on seeing Him? That is what my question is.


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Actually that is happening. Somebody has come from Germany, somebody from (indistinct), somebody Australia, somebody...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore question is just simplified, that . . . therefore we establish temple, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." That's all. If you say that "Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading. Why shall I come to the temple?" And why not in the temple if He's all-pervading? But you say: "No, I am not going to see in the temple. I shall see outside in the sky." Then you don't see. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, why not in the temple? What is that argument? He is here also. But according to my capacity I can see temple, Kṛṣṇa, very easily. So Kṛṣṇa says, ''man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ''. You come daily to the temple and see Him and think of Him. There is no . . .


Guest (6): And even if he doesn't subscribe the śikṣā to which you want them to. Even those who don't subscribe to...
'''Mahāṁśa:''' Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I introduce the project over here?


Prabhupāda: Then how he can live? If he does not live like us, then how he can live?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Guest (6): That is his question. Supposing he doesn't subscribe, still will he be allowed to come and live?
'''Mahāṁśa:''' May I introduce the press to the project over here?


Prabhupāda: No, no, if he lives, then he will subscribe. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you associate with good men you become a good man. If you associate with drunkard, you become drunkard. So we are giving the chance. Associate with us and you'll be devotee. That is becoming. So we are giving that chance. Come and live with us.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Guest (6): And what are the other point of stress in temples...?
'''Mahāṁśa:''' So by Kṛṣṇa's grace we have been given this plot of land which is 585 . . . 565 acres exactly, in two villages, that is, Dabilpur and Kanaipali villages. Lands are situated in the jurisdiction of these . . .


Mahāṁśa: Yes. To facilitate a harmonious Kṛṣṇa conscious community we will have all facilities. There will be temples.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Dabilpur and what is the other?


Prabhupāda: Let them come here, live peacefully, eat sumptuously, get all the other necessities of life and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our... And we have no discrimination, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. No. We have got many Christians, many Jews, many Hindus, many Muslims, many Africans. They are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
'''Mahāṁśa:''' Kanaipali. And the lands were originally in the Venkateshvara Gorakshini Trust, and they have transferred these lands to ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust under the chairmanship of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. So our interest here is to . . . this area, the whole area here, is very dry. Although there is potency of . . . there is potential for tapping water, it has been left dry and unused just like so much land all over. You can see. There is so much land which is unused, vacant, just like this. So we have been given this piece of land. We want to set an example of how such wasted land can be, with proper management and organization, it can be made usable to grow food, abundant food grains and fruits and to feed unlimited . . .


Guest (5): Even in India, Muslims are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
'''Prabhupāda:''' And offer them to Kṛṣṇa and give to them ''prasādam''.


Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim India or same India, those who are intelligent, they are taking.
'''Mahāṁśa:''' Yes.


Guest (5): In this country also they have taken?
'''Prabhupāda:''' That is our mission. We are already giving ''prasādam'' daily in the evening. There is no question of making profit.


Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the Pakistanis, they have taken. Of course, he is living in foreign country. One Dr. Ramjan (?), he is the professor in Portland. He is my disciple. I have given him the name, Rāmarañjana from Ramjan.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' So anyone can come and live here.


Guest (3): He has renounced his religion of Islam.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes.


Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. Yes. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam [[BG 18.66]] . That is wanted.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Irrespective of religion . . .


Guest (3): Can you repeat his name, please?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Actually that is happening. Somebody has come from Germany, somebody from . . . (indistinct) . . . somebody Australia, somebody . . .


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Indian reporter (6):''' And even if he doesn't subscribe the ''śikṣā'' to which you want them to. Even those who don't subscribe to . . .


Guest (3): Can you give his name?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Then how he can live? If he does not live like us, then how he can live?


Prabhupāda: I said, Ramjan, Dr. Ramjan, in Portland University.
'''Indian reporter (6):''' That is his question. Supposing he doesn't subscribe, still will he be allowed to come and live?


Mahāṁśa: Also Ātreya Ṛṣi.
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, if he lives, then he will subscribe. ''Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ''. If you associate with good men you become a good man. If you associate with drunkard, you become a drunkard. So we are giving the chance, "Associate with us and you'll be devotee." That is becoming. So we are giving that chance: "Come and live with us."


Prabhupāda: Ah, Ātreya Ṛṣi, yes. He is Iranian.
'''Indian reporter (6):''' And what are the other point of stress in temples . . .?


Dr. Ramachandra: He is also Muslim?
'''Mahāṁśa:''' Yes. To facilitate a harmonious Kṛṣṇa conscious community we will have all facilities. There will be temples.


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Many Iranians, they have become our devotees. We have got a temple in Tehran.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Let them come here, live peacefully, eat sumptuously, get all the other necessities of life and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our . . . and we have no discrimination, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. No. We have got many Christians, many Jews, many Hindus, many Muslims, many Africans. They are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.


Devotee: In Hyderabad there is Muslim. He is a life member.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Even in India, Muslims are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?


Prabhupāda: No, that, life member... God consciousness... Who will deny God? It is a science. So we are teaching the science, not the bigotry, "my God, your God." God is one. Gold is gold. Gold does not become Hindu gold, Muslim gold, or Christian gold. Anywhere gold is available, it is gold. That is our definition. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is highest, topmost type of religion, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, where one can learn how to love God, that's all. That is wanted. We are teaching that. There is no question of "this God, that God." God is one. You just practice how to love Him. Then your religion is first-class.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Well, Muslim India or same India, those who are intelligent, they are taking.


Guest (5): But why give names to Him? Why give names to that God?
'''Indian reporter (5):''' In this country also have they taken?


Prabhupāda: No name. When I say, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, this is not name. Adhokṣaja means "who is beyond your sense perception."
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Some of the Pakistanis, they have taken. Of course, he is living in foreign country.  


Guest (5): It can be Allah, Christ, even Kṛṣṇa.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Doesn't matter whatever; but living in Islam.


Prabhupāda: Yes. But you must know what is meaning of God. That's all. His name... Just like water. You say, "water," he says, pāni, he says, autuk (?). So water is water. Similarly, you must know what is God. Name does not matter. But Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name, Kṛṣṇa, according to Sanskrit, all-attractive. The God must be all-attractive; otherwise how He is God? That is the perfect name. Now, if you want to give another name we have no objection. There are hundreds and thousands of names, whatever you like. But it must be God's name. You must understand what is God. Then it is perfect. (aside:) Get on this light. It is scientific. It is not a religious sentiment. Why they should manufacture God? God is God. Gold is gold. And God definition is there in the Vedic literature.
'''Prabhupāda:''' One Dr. Ramjan, he is the professor in Portland. He is my disciple. I have given him the name Rāmarañjana from Ramjan.


<div class="conv_verse">
'''Indian reporter (3):''' He has renounced his religion of Islam.
aiśvaryasya samagrasya<br />
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ<br />
jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva<br />
sannam iti bhaga...<br />
( Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)
</div>


Bhagavān. These are the bhagas, opulences. One who possesses all these opulences, He is God, Bhagavān. Asty arthe vatup.(?) So all opulences. God is not shortage of opulence. All opulences. All the riches. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [[BG 5.29]] . This is God. He is the proprietor of everything. So unless you accept this formula, how you get conception of God? God is not a proprietor of three bighās of land. Here is God, sarva-loka-maheśvaram. That is God. God is not limited. He is unlimited. I can say I have got lakh of rupees, you can say you have got crore of rupees, but God says, "I am the proprietor of all the riches." That we cannot say. That is God's wealth. And because He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer, supreme enjoyer, bhoktā. But we are manufacturing different bhoktās; therefore there is controversy. If we accept "God is bhoktā; we are simply dependent on Him," then the whole question is solved. The United Nation is the... [break] Yes. God says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati [[BG 5.29]] . He never said, māṁsaṁ din māṁ māṁsam.(?) (laughter) If you are God conscious, then you must give. Suppose you are here. If I invite you, then I'll ask you, "Sir, how can I serve you?" If you say, "Give me this kind of food," then that is real service. And you do not like something, and if I say, "Oh, this flesh is very nice. You take it," is that service? God demands this. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. So we are God's servant. We are giving with these groups of food. And after He's eating, we are taking. We are servant. We cannot say, "My dear master, I like this flesh. You take it." That is not service. So therefore fool has to do everything because God wants it. And if you say, "God is nirākāra. He has no mouth, no head, tail," then you can manufacture. But here God says.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is there. Yes. ''Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). That is wanted.


Guest (6): In order to establish the āśrama will you be spending part of the year here?
'''Indian reporter (3):''' Can you repeat his name, please?


Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got so many centers that if I stay in each center three days, the whole year is finished. What can be done?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Guest (5): Swamiji, how many āśramas and things you have?
'''Indian reporter (3):''' Can you give his name?


Prabhupāda: 102, big, big āśramas. And we are feeding twenty thousand men daily without any income. The God sends. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [[BG 9.22]] . We are spending twelve lakhs of rupees per month in New York and similarly other centers.
'''Prabhupāda:''' I said, Ramjan, Dr. Ramjan, in Portland University.


Guest (6): Twelve lakhs also in Delhi center only?
'''Mahāṁśa:''' Also Ātreya Ṛṣi.


Prabhupāda: New York. New York.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Ah, Ātreya Ṛṣi, yes. He is Iranian.


Guest (5): Where do you get these funds?
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' He is also Muslim?


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Many Iranians, they have become our devotees. We have got a temple in Tehran.


Guest (5): Where do you get these funds?
'''Devotee:''' In Hyderabad there is Muslim. He is a Life Member.


Prabhupāda: God sends.
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, that, Life Member . . . God consciousness . . . who will deny God? It is a science. So we are teaching the science, not the bigotry, "my God," "your God." God is one. Gold is gold. Gold does not become Hindu gold, Muslim gold or Christian gold. Anywhere gold is available, it is gold. That is our definition. ''Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ'' ([[SB 1.2.6|SB 1.2.6]]). That is highest, topmost type of religion, ''yato bhaktir adhokṣaje'', where one can learn how to love God, that's all. That is wanted. We are teaching that. There is no question of "this God," "that God." God is one. You just practice how to love Him. Then your religion is first class.


Guest (5): God?
'''Indian reporter (5):''' But why give names to Him? Why give names to that God?  


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' No name. When I say ''yato bhaktir adhokṣaje'', this is not name. ''Adhokṣaja'' means "who is beyond your sense perception."


Guest (5): But he's not sending funds, the god, planning commissioner.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' It can be Allah, Christ, even Kṛṣṇa.


Prabhupāda: Because he is not devotee. How He'll send? You feed your son, not the outsider.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. But you must know what is meaning of God. That's all. His name . . . just like water. You say "water"; he says ''pāni''; he says ''autuk''. So water is water. Similarly, you must know what is God. Name does not matter. But Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name. Kṛṣṇa, according to Sanskrit, "all-attractive." The God must be all-attractive; otherwise how He is God? That is the perfect name. Now, if you want to give another name we have no objection. There are hundreds and thousands of names, whatever you like. But it must be God's name. You must understand what is God. Then it is perfect. (aside) Get on this light. It is scientific. It is not a religious sentiment. Why they should manufacture God? God is God. Gold is gold. And God definition is there in the Vedic literature.


Guest (5): But God doesn't discriminate.
:''aiśvaryasya samagrasya''
:''vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ''
:''jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva''
:''sannam iti bhaga'' . . .
:(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)


Prabhupāda: So that, general food is there, but special, special mercy, is for the devotee. Just like you have got sympathy for all the children, but you have got special sympathy for your own children.
Bhagavān. These are the ''bhāgas'', opulences. One who possesses all these opulences, He is God, Bhagavān. Asty arthe vatup. So all opulences. God is not shortage of opulences. All opulences. All the riches. ''Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram'' ([[BG 5.29 (1972)|BG 5.29]]). This is God. He is the proprietor of everything.  


Guest (4): How many āśramas do you have in India?
So unless you accept this formula, how you get conception of God? God is not a proprietor of three ''bīghās'' of land. Here is God: ''sarva-loka-maheśvaram''. That is God. God is not limited. He is unlimited. I can say I have got ''lakh'' of rupees, you can say you have got crore of rupees, but God says: "I am the proprietor of all the riches." That we cannot say. That is God's wealth. And because He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer, supreme enjoyer, ''bhoktā''. But we are manufacturing different ''bhoktās'', therefore there is controversy. If we accept "God is ''bhoktā''—we are simply dependent on Him," then the whole question is solved. The United Nation is . . . (break)


Prabhupāda: India, I have got about six, seven.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' . . . has food got to do with?


Devotee: Eight. Eight.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. God says, ''patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati'' ([[BG 9.26 (1972)|BG 9.26]]). He never said, ''māṁsaṁ din māṁ māṁsam''. (laughter) If you are God conscious, then you must give. Suppose you are here. If I invite you, then I'll ask you, "Sir, how can I serve you?" If you say: "Give me this kind of food," then that is real service. And you do not like something, and if I say: "Oh, this flesh is very nice. You take it," is that service? God demands this. ''Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati''. So we are God's servant. We are giving with these groups of food. And after He's eating, we are taking. We are servant. We cannot say: "My dear master, I like this flesh. You take it." That is not service. So therefore fool has to do everything because God wants it. And if you say: "God is ''nirākāra''. He has no mouth, no head, tail," then you can manufacture. But here God says.


Prabhupāda: Eight. Out of 102, in India I have got only eight. In America we have got forty centers.
'''Indian reporter (6):''' Now that you have established the ''āśrama'', will you be spending part of the year here?


Hari-śauri: Fifty with the farms.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, I have got so many centers that if I stay in each center three days, the whole year is finished. (laughs) What can be done?


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Swāmījī, how many ''āśramas'' and things you have?


Hari-śauri: Fifty, more than fifty, with the farms.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Hundred and two—big, big ''āśramas''. And we are feeding twenty thousand men daily, without any income. The God sends. ''Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham'' ([[BG 9.22 (1972)|BG 9.22]]). We are spending twelve ''lakhs'' of rupees per month in New York, and similarly other centers.


Prabhupāda: Farms.
'''Indian reporter (6):''' Twelve ''lakhs'' also in Delhi center only?


Guest (3): Fifty, five zero.
'''Prabhupāda:''' New York. New York.


Guest (5): Yes, five zero.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Where do you get these funds?


Prabhupāda: No, in America. We have got farms like this. They are very successful. They are eating fresh vegetables, fresh grains and milk, and chanting. The temple is there. They have left the city life. So I want to organize that here also. We have already one in Navadvīpa. The devotees are there. They are having their own cloth, own food, own milk, residence, and chanting. That's all.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Guest (3): Total membership for around the world?
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Where do you get these funds?


Prabhupāda: Total membership is practically unlimited because we are now getting opposition, so... But actually dedicated life, about ten thousand like these boys.
'''Prabhupāda:''' God sends.


Guest (5): What's going to be the name of this āśrama?  
'''Indian reporter (5):''' God?


Prabhupāda: It is already told. It is ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Guest (5): The name of the trust will be the name of the āśrama.  
'''Indian reporter (5):''' But he's not sending funds, the God, planning commissioner.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Because he is not devotee. How He'll send? You feed your son, not the outsider.


Hari-śauri: New Naimiṣāraṇya?
'''Indian reporter (5):''' But God doesn't discriminate.


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Prabhupāda:''' So that, general food is there, but special, special mercy is for the devotee. Just like you have got sympathy for all the children, but you have got special sympathy for your own children.


Hari-śauri: New Naimiṣāraṇya?
'''Indian reporter (4):''' How many ''āśramas'' do you have in India?


Prabhupāda: Yes, that is secondary, but legal is...
'''Prabhupāda:''' India, I have got about six, seven.


Dr. Ramachandra: Shall we go now?
'''Devotee:''' Eight.  


Mahāṁśa: I'll take them around.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eight. Out of 102, in India I have got only eight. In America we have got forty centers.


Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Show them. Thank you very much. [break]
'''Hari-śauri:''' Fifty with the farms.


Guest (8): Mr. Patel?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Hari-śauri:''' Fifty, more than fifty, with the farms.


Guest (8): Did he invite you or...?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Farms.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Indian reporter (3):''' Fifty, five zero.


Guest (8): Any idea of the topics?
'''Indian reporter (5):''' Yes, five zero.


Prabhupāda: About Bhagavad-gītā. Some of them, they are a little surprised how I have alone spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world and all the yogis and swamis, they could not rise, combined together. That is his little surprise.
'''Indian reporter (3):''' Here?


Guest (8): Did it surprise Bhave?
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, in America. We have got farms like this. They are very successful. They are eating fresh vegetables, fresh grains and milk, and chanting. The temple is there. They have left the city life. So I want to organize that here also. We have already one in Navadvīpa. The devotees are there. They are having their own cloth, own food, own milk, residence, and chanting. That's all.


Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise why he is inviting me? He could not do.
'''Indian reporter (3):''' Total membership for around the world?


Guest (8): And Swamiji, when you are meeting Bhave?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Total membership is practically unlimited. Because we are now getting opposition, so . . . but actually dedicated life, about ten thousand like these boys.


Prabhupāda: Eighteenth. Not only him, but there are so many swamis. They are also going but not a single Kṛṣṇa devotee they could turn. That's a fact. For the last two hundred years, that's a fact. You cannot deny the fact. But within ten years we have got so many centers and so many. That is little surprising.
'''Indian reporter (5):''' What's going to be the name of this ''āśrama''?


Guest (8): You'll be talking about the cow protection also.
'''Prabhupāda:''' It is already told. It is ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust.


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam [[BG 18.44]] . He is giving you. That is our duty. I told these boys, "The cows, whether they give milk or not milk, it doesn't matter. They should be given protection."
'''Indian reporter (5):''' The name of the Trust will be the name of the ''āśrama''.


Guest (8): They should be given?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: Given protection. If Kṛṣṇa says, go-rakṣya... He doesn't say only give protection to the milk cow.
'''Hari-śauri:''' New Naimiṣāraṇya?


Guest (8): Once they expire, how do you propose to expose of the body?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Prabhupāda: Then they can eat, those who are eating cows. Just like in our country the cāmāras, they take away and take the skin for preparing shoes and eat the flesh and use the bone. So we request those who are flesh eaters, that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"
'''Hari-śauri:''' New Naimiṣāraṇya?


Guest (9): So you support actually government ban of slaughter.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, that is secondary, but legal is . . .


Prabhupāda: Certainly.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Shall we go now?


Guest (9): After the cow is dead, if the flesh is taken, it is...
'''Mahāṁśa:''' I'll take them around.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes. Show them. Thank you very much. (break)


Guest (9): You have no objection.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' Mr. Patel?


Prabhupāda: No. The vultures, they live on the cow's flesh, so what objection we have got? We don't... We say, "Don't kill."
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Guest (9): After the natural death, not slaughter.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' Did he invite you or . . .?


Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. If they are... Now you can do whatever you like. Our philosophy...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Guest (9): It is only ten-year-old movement.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' Any idea of the topics?


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' About ''Bhagavad-gītā''. Some of them, they are a little surprised how I have alone spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, and all the ''yogīs'' and ''svāmīs'', they could not rise, combined together. That is his little surprise.


Guest (9): It started in...
'''Indian reporter (8):''' Did it surprise Bhave?


Prabhupāda: It started in actually 1967. But the preliminary arrangement was made from 1965. Two years I had spent for making the suitable ground.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, otherwise why he is inviting me? He could not do.


Guest (9): Obviously the first, when you started in the United States.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' And Swāmījī, when you are meeting Bhave?


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Devotee:''' Eighteenth.  


Guest (9): The first āśrama.  
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eighteenth. Not only him, but there are so many svāmīs. They are also going. But not a single Kṛṣṇa devotee they could turn. That's a fact. For the last two hundred years. That's a fact. You cannot deny the fact. But within ten years we have got so many centers and so many . . . that is little surprising.


Prabhupāda: Yes. New York.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' You'll be talking about the cow protection also.


Guest (9): And that was in '67.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said. Kṛṣṇa says, ''kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam'' ([[BG 18.44 (1972)|BG 18.44]]). He is giving you. That is our duty. I told these boys, "The cows, whether they give milk or not milk, it doesn't matter. They should be given protection."


Prabhupāda: Yes. It was registered in..., by at the end of '66, July, '66, and then it took some time to find out some place. So in '67 I found out some place.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' They should be given . . .?


Guest (9): But you don't have an overall budget of all these 102 āśramas.  
'''Prabhupāda:''' Given protection. If Kṛṣṇa says ''go-rakṣya'' . . . He doesn't say only give protection to the milk cow.


Prabhupāda: I have my book trust. The daily collection of book trust is five to six lakhs of rupees. Daily.
'''Indian reporter (8):''' Once they expire, how do you propose to dispose of the body?


Guest (9): Daily. Oh, book trust. Oh, by the sale of books.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Then they can eat, those who are eating cows. Just like in our country the ''chāmāras'', they take away and take the skin for preparing shoes and eat the flesh and use the bone. So we request those who are flesh eaters that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"


Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. And I have asked them, "Fifty percent, you print books again, and fifty percent, you spend." That's all. Same thing.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' So you support actually government ban of slaughter.


Guest (9): Spend on what?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Certainly.


Prabhupāda: Spend for this purpose, propagation. That is my mi... And if I would have taken some royalty, then my daily income would have been not less than 75,000 per day.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' After the cow is dead, if the flesh is taken, it is . . .


Guest (9): After income tax, little would be left.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: There is no income tax. We are charity.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' You have no objection.


Guest (9): 75,000 daily, you said.
'''Prabhupāda:''' No. The vultures, they live on the cow's flesh, so what objection we have got? We don't . . . we say: "Don't kill."


Prabhupāda: Yes. Because five to six lakhs daily collection. If I take minimum fifteen percent, what it comes to? Big, big authors, they get twenty-five percent.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' After the natural death, not slaughter.


Guest (9): But one gentleman... I think in this temple... Some of your books are, rather, prohibiting the cost.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Yes. If they are . . . now you can do whatever you like. Our philosophy . . .


Prabhupāda: Yes, this was meant for the outside. Because our countrymen, they are learned, they don't require. They are so learned, they don't require anybody. Therefore it is prohibited. Better they do not take it. Otherwise they will misinterpret. That's all. Their only business is misinterpret. Therefore the prohibited price.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' It is only ten-year-old movement.


Guest (9): There is something which is difficult to make them understand.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: Therefore better they do not take it.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' It started in . . .


Guest (9): It's easy to go in the virgin soil.
'''Prabhupāda:''' It started in actually 1967. But the preliminary arrangement was made from 1965. Two years I had to spend for making the suitable ground.


Prabhupāda: That means they do not understand what is the meaning of śāstra. They want to interpret śāstra in their own way. That is the difficulty. Big, big person...
'''Indian reporter (9):''' Obviously the first one you started in the United States.


Guest (9): Real testing would be only in India in that case.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa does not speak for Indians. He is for everyone.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' The first ''āśrama''.


Guest (9): The sections of your movement accept in that sense.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. New York.


Prabhupāda: No, they have given up. They have purposefully given up, that "This religion and śāstra has killed our nation. Better give it up. Throw it in the water." This is the leaders' plea. Therefore they are changing. They have altogether rejected this.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' And that was in '67.


Indian reporter: No, they don't reject. They give religious freedom.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. It was registered in . . . by the end of '66.


Prabhupāda: What is freedom? That "Whatever you like, you do."
'''Hari-śauri:''' July '66.


Indian reporter: No, not that.
'''Prabhupāda:''' July '66. And then it took some time to find out some place. So in '67 I found out some place.


Prabhupāda: So then what is freedom?
'''Indian reporter (9):''' But you don't have an overall budget of all these 102 ''āśramas'', for daily expenditure.


Indian reporter: Whichever religion I like, I am free to follow it.
'''Prabhupāda:''' I have my Book Trust. The daily collection of Book Trust is five to six lakhs of rupees. Daily.


Prabhupāda: This freedom means you can manufacture your own religion. And this is freedom. They want this freedom, that you can manufacture. Yato mata tato patha, as the Ramakrishna Mission says, that "You can manufacture your own way of religion."
'''Indian reporter (9):''' Daily. Oh, Book Trust. Oh, by the sale of books.


Dr. Ramachandra: Somebody said religion is the opium of the masses.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. And I have asked them, "Fifty percent, you print books again, and fifty percent, you spend." That's all. Same thing.


Prabhupāda: Yes, they will say.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' Spend on what?


Dr. Ramachandra: That is... They trained us.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Spend for this purpose, propagation. That is my mi . . . and if I would have taken some royalty, then my daily income would have been not less than 75,000 per day.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' After income tax, little would be left. (laughter)


Dr. Ramachandra: I think you're right in saying that the government has rejected it, in that sense.
'''Prabhupāda:''' There is no income tax. We are charity.


Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is religion. That is the difficulty. Religion is here. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. This is religion.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' 75,000 daily, you said.


Guest (9): Recently a political party also has alleged that ISKCON temples have become abode of the CIA agents.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes. Because five to six lakhs daily collection. If I take minimum fifteen percent, what it comes to? Big, big authors, they get twenty-five percent.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' But one . . . (indistinct) . . . I think in this temple . . . some of your books are, rather, prohibitively costly.


Guest (9): What do you say for it?
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, this was meant for the outsider. Because our countrymen, they are learned, they don't require.


Prabhupāda: We are detecting who is irreligious. That's all. That is our business.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' No, no, but are you keeping it for other . . .


Guest (3): They are detecting who is irreligious.
'''Prabhupāda:''' They are so learned, they don't require anybody. (laughter) Therefore it is prohibited. Better they do not take it. Otherwise they will misinterpret. That's all. Their only business is misinterpret. Therefore the prohibitive price.


Prabhupāda: He is going on in the name of religion, but he does not know what is religion. So that we are detecting. You can say like that. This is our business.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' There is something which is difficult to make them understand.


Guest (3): It was an allegation by an important...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Therefore better they do not take it.


Prabhupāda: It is allegation. And they are so fools that the Americans, they have come here to become Vaiṣṇava and starvation and they have become religious. They have no food there, and they have come to me and they have no dress, they have... And this boy is English boy. He is giving me massage as if he's a poor man's son. This is... Is he poor man's son? Why he is giving massage? We are Indian, poor Indian. He is not in need of money. He even buys his own cloth. The other day I was chastising him, "Why you are purchasing? You take." "No, I have got money." Just see. This is their position.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' It's easy to go in the virgin soil.


Dr. Ramachandra: May we take leave?
'''Prabhupāda:''' That means they do not understand what is the meaning of śāstra. They want to interpret śāstra in their own way. That is the difficulty. Big, big person . . .


Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. (Hindi—jokes about CIA) (laughter)
'''Indian reporter (9):''' Real testing would be only in India in that case.


Dr. Ramachandra: This is wild allegation.
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, Kṛṣṇa does not speak for Indians. He is for everyone.


Prabhupāda: It is no reason. (Hindi) As if they have no money to go to the hotel.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' The sections of your movement accept in that sense.


Dr. Ramachandra: In India everything is after CIA now.
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, they have given up. They have purposefully given up that, "This religion and ''śāstra'' has killed our nation. Better give it up. Throw it in the water." This is the leaders' plea. Therefore they are changing. They have altogether rejected this.


Prabhupāda: Eh?
'''Indian reporter:''' No, they don't reject. They give religious freedom.


Dr. Ramachandra: Everything is after CIA.
'''Prabhupāda:''' What is freedom? That "Whatever you like, you do."


Prabhupāda: And in Parliament it has been denied. Rather, Home Member said that "We have no information that they are CIA." Parliament challenged, "What steps you are going to take?" And "No step. There is no information." They are afraid of the American government because of this Bangladesh affair. And otherwise government appreciates this movement. But because the Americans are there they think, "Some may do something," in this way. Yes. But there is no such chance. They are all devotees. They have nothing to do...
'''Indian reporter:''' No, not that.


Dr. Ramachandra: This is a purely religious movement.
'''Prabhupāda:''' So then what is freedom?


Prabhupāda: That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.
'''Indian reporter:''' Whichever religion I like, I can . . . free to follow it.


Dr. Ramachandra: I am doctor from Hyderabad, so I wanted to pay my respects to you.
'''Prabhupāda:''' This freedom means you can manufacture your own religion, and this is freedom. They want this freedom, that you can manufacture. ''Yato mata tato patha'', as the Ramakrishna Mission says that, "You can manufacture your own way of religion."


Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Somebody said religion is the opium of the masses.


Dr. Ramachandra: I am eye specialist practicing in Hyderabad.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes, they will say.


Prabhupāda: You are very qualified.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' That is . . . they trained us.


Dr. Ramachandra: With your grace. So I have been thinking of meeting you for a long time, and when I was told you are leaving tomorrow, then I said I would come and pay my respects to you.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: Very good. Very good. Thank you.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' I think you're correct in saying that the government has rejected it, in that sense.


Dr. Ramachandra: It's our luck that I could meet you. You are a great leader of, religious leader, you see, international. And you belong to order of the Caitanya Maṭha.
'''Prabhupāda:''' But they do not know what is religion. That is the difficulty. Religion is here. Kṛṣṇa says, ''mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja'' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]). This is religion.


Prabhupāda: Yes.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' But recently a political party also has alleged that ISKCON temples have become abode of the CIA agents. (laughter)


Dr. Ramachandra: It's a great bhakti movement. So any services I am prepared to give for the āśrama, with your...
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.


Prabhupāda: (aside:) So keep this card. The Dr. Ramachandra is ready.
'''Indian reporter (9):''' What do you say for it?


Dr. Ramachandra: I am on telephone also.
'''Prabhupāda:''' We are detecting who is irreligious. That's all. That is our business.


Prabhupāda: So any help you want, we'll give. It is very nice. (Hindi)
'''Indian reporter (3):''' They are detecting who is irreligious.


Dr. Ramachandra: I only want that your movement should utilize my services because I believe service to mankind is service to God.
'''Prabhupāda:''' He is going on in the name of religion, but he does not know what is religion. So that we are detecting. You can say like that. This is our business.


Prabhupāda: No, no, service to God is service to mankind. If you pour water in the root, then it is service to the tree. And if you pour water on the leaf, then nobody is served. Everything will be dry, that's all. That is imperfect service. If you have got realization of God, why should you give only human being service? Why not tiger? He is also... Kṛṣṇa says, "They are also My sons." That means you discriminate. That is not that... Father will be satisfied when all the sons are given, not partial, not partial. Suppose I have got five children. If you give service to one children, so I'll ask that "Why not other children?" Naturally.
'''Indian reporter (3):''' It was an allegation by an important . . .


Dr. Ramachandra: Discrimination comes.
'''Prabhupāda:''' It is allegation. And they are so fools that the Americans, they have come here to become Vaiṣṇava and starvation and they have become religious. They have no food there, and they have come to me, and they have no dress, they have . . . and this boy is English boy. He is giving me massage as if he's a poor man's son. This is . . . is he poor man's son? Why he is giving massage? We are Indian, poor Indian. He is not in need of money. He even buys his own cloth. The other day I was chastising him, "Why you are purchasing? You take." "No, I have got money." Just see. This is their position.


Prabhupāda: Discrimination comes. So if you have realized God, then you must be learned. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [[BG 5.18]] .
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Sir, may we take leave?


Dr. Ramachandra: Śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [[BG 5.18]] .  
'''Prabhupāda:''' Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. <span style="color:#ec710e">Jara theek se lijiye, humlog CIA hain.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Take it properly, we are the CIA.)</span> (laughter)


Prabhupāda: Why you make distinction, daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? If Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why not dhanī? So our vision is either he is dhanī or daridra, he is blind because he does not know God.
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' This is wild allegation.


Dr. Ramachandra: You want to give light.
'''Prabhupāda:''' It is no reason . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . as if they have no money to go to the hotel.


Prabhupāda: That's all. We do not discriminate in that way. We discriminate in this way, that "Here is a man who knows about God, and here is a man who does not know."
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' In India everything is after CIA now.


Dr. Ramachandra: Any service for āśrama, I am volunteering, sir.
'''Prabhupāda:''' Eh?


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Service... So long we have got this body, we require your service. We have got the eyes. Naturally...
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Everything is after CIA.


Dr. Ramachandra: So you can tell your disciples
'''Prabhupāda:''' And in Parliament it has been denied. Rather, Home Member said that, "We have no information that they are CIA." Parliament challenged, "What steps you are going to take?" And "No step. There is no information." (background conversation) They are afraid of the American government because of this Bangladesh affair. And otherwise government appreciates this movement. But because the Americans are there, they think, "Some may do something," in this way. Yes. But there is no such chance. They are all devotees. They have nothing to do . . .


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So take. He's so kind. That's it. (end)
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' This is a purely religious movement.


{{CV_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}
'''Prabhupāda:''' That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' I am doctor from Hyderabad, so I wanted to pay my respects to you.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh. Thank you very much.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' I am eye specialist practicing in Hyderabad.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' You are very qualified.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' With your grace. So I have been thinking of meeting you for a long time, and when I was told you are leaving tomorrow, then I said I would come and pay my respects to you.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Very good. Very good. Thank you.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' It's our luck that I could meet you. You are a great leader of . . . religious leader, you see, international. And you belong to order of the Caitanya Maṭha.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Yes.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' It's a great bhakti movement. So any services I am prepared to give for the ''āśrama'', with your . . .
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' (aside) So keep this card. The Dr. Ramachandra is ready.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' I am on telephone also.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' So any help you want, he'll give. It is very nice. <span style="color:#ec710e">Phir aaiye.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Come again.)</span>
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' I only want that your movement should utilize my services, because I believe service to mankind is service to God.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' No, no, service to God is service to mankind. If you pour water in the root, then it is service to the tree. And if you pour water on the leaf, then nobody is served. Everything will be dry, that's all. That is imperfect service. If you have got realization of God, why should you give only human being service? Why not tiger? He is also . . . Kṛṣṇa says: "They are also My sons." That means you discriminate. That is not that . . . father will be satisfied when all the sons are given, not partial, not partial. Suppose I have got five children. If you give service to one children, so I'll ask that, "Why not other children?" Naturally.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Discrimination comes.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Discrimination comes. So if you have realized God, then you must be learned. ''Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ'' ([[BG 5.18 (1972)|BG 5.18]]).
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' ''Śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ'' ([[BG 5.18 (1972)|BG 5.18]]).
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Why you make distinction, ''daridra-nārāyaṇa''? Why not ''dhanī-nārāyaṇa''? If Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why not ''dhanī''? So our vision is either he is ''dhanī'' or ''daridra'', he is blind because he does not know God.
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' You want to give light.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' That's all. We do not discriminate in that way. We discriminate in this way, that "Here is a man who knows about God, and here is a man who does not know."
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' Any service for ''āśrama'', I am volunteering, sir.
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. Service . . . so long we have got this body, we require your service. We have got the eyes. Naturally . . .
 
'''Dr. Ramachandra:''' So you can kindly tell your disciples
 
'''Prabhupāda:''' Oh, yes. So take. He's so kind. That's it. (end)

Latest revision as of 04:47, 7 February 2024

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada




761216PC-HYDERABAD - December 16, 1976 - 46.59 Minutes



Prabhupāda: Ye light side, ye darkness, idhar jaiye ya idhar jayiye. (This is the light side, and this is darkness. You go this way or this way.)

Indian reporter (1): Obviously we have selected darkness. That is what we want to do. We want to go into light later on.

Prabhupāda: You are requesting something . . . Veda says: "Come to the light." Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya: "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light."

Indian reporter (2): We want more light.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (2): Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is desirable in human. Otherwise the animals are in darkness. They do not know what is God. But a human being, because he has got this human form of body, he can come to the light. So all the śāstras are for the human being, not for the cats and dogs. So if you do not take advantage of the śāstras, then you remain in the darkness. This is our position. The light is here. Just like apart from all other śāstras, if you take Bhagavad-gītā, it is the very brilliant light. It is not that changing. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, what, that is still the same thing. Just like light. Millions of years ago, what was sun, the same sun is there. In the light there is no change. In the darkness there is change. If we do not accept the standard knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, then we shall continue to remain in darkness, and there will be no solution of the problems of life. This is our propaganda. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are asking everywhere, all over the world, "You come to this light and be happy." That's it.

Indian reporter (1): Swamiji, tell us something good this āśrama, that you're doing.

Prabhupāda: Let Mahāṁśa . . . where is Mahāṁśa? Āśrama means an attempt to give some light. That is the difference . . .

Indian reporter (3): According to us, even in lightness there is darkness. Even in that it can be.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not light. That is called . . .

Indian reporter (3): There also it can grow from one level to higher level.

Prabhupāda: That is ābhāsa. Ābhāsa. Just like in the morning there is no full sunshine, but there is some glimpse of light. That is not real light. Real light is full sunshine, but before the sun rises fully there is some light. That light and this light different. We have to come to the full light. Then our life will be success. Not partial light. That will not help. The full light you can get from the Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Ramachandra: Jyotiṣām api taj jyotis tamasaḥ param ucyate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes.

Dr. Ramachandra: Jñānaṁ jñeyaṁ jñāna-gamyaṁ hṛdi sarvasya viṣṭhitam.

Prabhupāda: So you take light from Kṛṣṇa. And that is full light, and you'll be happy. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Don't be satisfied with glimpse of light. Take full light. And that is open to everyone just like the sunshine is open to everyone. If you want to remain in the darkness, in the room, that is your business. But you come to the . . . you can come to the full sunlight. That you can do. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. He is speaking everything openly. There is no secret mantra. Everything is there. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām (BG 18.65). This is open to everyone. Where is the difficulty? Unless we deny to accept Kṛṣṇa's instruction, there is no secret. Everything is open. But our leaders and scholars, they do not like to take Kṛṣṇa's instruction as it is. We are therefore insisting, we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no interpretation. They say: "Why not interpretation?" That is the defect. We say no interpretation. You take Kṛṣṇa as it is, that's all. Then your life is successful.

Indian reporter (2): No interpretation is it?

Prabhupāda: What interpretation you can give? He is authority, and what you are? You can give interpretation?

Indian reporter (1): It is self . . . (indistinct) . . . necessity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Simply . . . yes. No, Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more superior authority, more superior authority than Kṛṣṇa. And when Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth, He proved it. There was nobody superior than Him. That's a fact. Still He is superior. His Bhagavad-gītā is being studied all over the world with respect, determination, because He is still superior. That is superior.

Dr. Ramachandra:

athavā bahunaitena
kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat
(BG 10.42)

Prabhupāda: And we are not changing. Because, five thousand years have passed, therefore we have to make some additional. No.

Indian reporter (1): Then why should there be so many commentaries upon it?

Prabhupāda: They are rascaldom, that's all. Simple word, rascaldom.

Devotee: Rascaldom.

Indian reporter (1): Rascaldom. I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot interpret on the words of God. You cannot interpret. Just like law. There is law by the government. You cannot interpret in your own way. You have to accept it. "Keep to the right"—no interpretation. You must keep to the right. That is law. If you say, "What is wrong if I go to the left?" Actually if one goes to the left, it is not very . . . but you cannot do it. As soon as you do it, you are criminal, you'll be punished. That is law. The dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). This is dharma. If you want a general definition of dharma, or religion, that is given in the śāstra that, "Dharma means the law given by God." That is dharma. You cannot manufacture dharma. And because we are manufacturing so many dharmas, mental concoctions, there is no peace. And Kṛṣṇa therefore says that "You give up this rascaldom." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Dr. Ramachandra: Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te . . .

Prabhupāda: The śāstra means what is spoken by God and His representative. That's all. That is śāstra. Unless Kṛṣṇa accepts śāstra, how He is saying like that? Tasmāc chāstraṁ pramāṇaṁ te. Śāstra should be . . .

Dr. Ramachandra: Some śāstras must be existing before . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Ramachandra: Some śāstras after, existing before Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna.

Prabhupāda: Śāstra? Śāstra means it is authorized. Just like Bhagavad-gītā is śāstra because it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. Therefore all the ācāryas, they accept it. Still the ācārya-sampradāyas are there. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Śaṅkara, they accept all this. And at the time of . . .

Indian reporter (2): Do you accept the supremacy of the Vedas, veda-pramāṇam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). And if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, then you do not know what is Veda. Your knowledge of Vedas will be accepted when you understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you do not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of taking so much trouble to study Vedas? You do not know anything. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

Dr. Ramachandra: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti.

Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. That is knowledge.

Dr. Ramachandra: Sa mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā. If you do not know vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8): simply you have labored hard. That's all. You have gained nothing. And if you understood Vāsudeva, then you understood everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3).

Dr. Ramachandra: How do you explain vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi?

Devotee: Tell again.

Dr. Ramachandra: Vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He's the chief of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). That is the . . . He is the origin of everything. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. If you know the root, then you know the whole tree, where to water. If you water the root, so it . . . water goes. It is goes to the highest twigs. You haven't got to take trouble to go to the up to pour water. You pour water in the root. This is the way.

Indian reporter (1): Once He says, vāsudevaḥ sarvam, and again He says, vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi. So the meaning of that word is . . .

Prabhupāda: So does it mean that He is not sarvam? One who does not understand vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), particular, "It is also Vāsudeva. It is also Vāsudeva. It is also Vāsudeva," that is called less intelligent. Otherwise, one who is intelligent, he'll under . . . vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: "Everything is Vāsudeva." Sa mahātmā. But if he has no intelligence, then "I am this, I am God. I am Kṛṣṇa." The same example, just like here is a tree. If I say, "The root, you pour water," here is everything. Otherwise this is also tree. The leaf is also tree, the twig also tree, the flower is also tree . . . you go on like that. They are of the same value. But if one is intelligent, he will understand, "Here is everything," vāsudevaḥ sarvam, the root. That's all. (devotee talking) What is that?

French devotee: I was just telling this gentleman that the reporters may have some other questions also.

Prabhupāda: Then that is his wish.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: This is our movement.

Indian reporter (4): Through meditation you attain mukti?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian reporter (4): Through meditation ultimately you attain Him.

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by meditation?

Indian reporter (4): I don't know, but normally it is understood to be . . .

Prabhupāda: Then why you are talking of meditation?

Indian reporter (4): Normally as it is understood by . . .

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian reporter (4): Concentration.

Prabhupāda: Which concentration? What is the subject?

Indian reporter (4): It can be from man to man, from . . . one may do it on Kṛṣṇa, and one may do it on . . .

Prabhupāda: That is not standard. If meditation is according to one's whims, that is not meditation.

Indian reporter (4): But it depends upon the faith.

Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, meditation means to meditate upon God. That is meditation. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Yoginaḥ, those who are yogīs, they meditate upon the form of the Lord.

Indian reporter (4): So through that, you . . .

Prabhupāda: That is meditation.

Indian reporter (4): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Other things, they have manufactured concoctions.

Indian reporter (4): Maybe, but through that, you say you attain God, is it?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Indian reporter (4): You attain God, or what is the concept?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Meditation means Kṛṣṇa. He says meditation. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: "Just concentrate your mind upon Me." This is meditation.

Indian reporter (4): Then, in due course of time, do you see Him? Or in what form?

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately you see Him. Kṛṣṇa's picture is there. Kṛṣṇa's picture and Kṛṣṇa is not different. So if you concentrate upon Kṛṣṇa, you immediately see Him.

Indian reporter (4): You see Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately. But if you think Kṛṣṇa has no form, then it is difficult. Immediately. Now He says, man-manāḥ. He personally says man-manāḥ, so where is the difficulty?

Indian reporter (4): No, the form of the light, you see or . . .?

Prabhupāda: Why light? With two hands, two legs, He is speaking, man-manāḥ: "Me." Why light? Light is another feature of His existence, but He says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Therefore we are presenting. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68).

Indian reporter (4): In other words, do mean to say that you see Him in three dimensions?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian reporter (4): You see Him in three dimensions?

Prabhupāda: Unlimited dimension. Three dimension for you because You cannot see Him. Otherwise He is unlimited. That's it. But you cannot see unlimited. That is His mercy, that He presents Himself before you in three dimension because you have no eyes to see Him in His unlimited dimension. That is not possible. So it is His mercy. But He is not limited with three dimensions.

Indian reporter (4): No, no, I'm not saying He is limited. As the man sees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he is limited . . .

Indian reporter (4): As the man's concentration through which progresses, how, in what forms he goes on seeing Him? That is what my question is.

Prabhupāda: Therefore question is just simplified, that . . . therefore we establish temple, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." That's all. If you say that "Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading. Why shall I come to the temple?" And why not in the temple if He's all-pervading? But you say: "No, I am not going to see in the temple. I shall see outside in the sky." Then you don't see. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, why not in the temple? What is that argument? He is here also. But according to my capacity I can see temple, Kṛṣṇa, very easily. So Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. You come daily to the temple and see Him and think of Him. There is no . . .

Mahāṁśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I introduce the project over here?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mahāṁśa: May I introduce the press to the project over here?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mahāṁśa: So by Kṛṣṇa's grace we have been given this plot of land which is 585 . . . 565 acres exactly, in two villages, that is, Dabilpur and Kanaipali villages. Lands are situated in the jurisdiction of these . . .

Indian reporter (5): Dabilpur and what is the other?

Mahāṁśa: Kanaipali. And the lands were originally in the Venkateshvara Gorakshini Trust, and they have transferred these lands to ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust under the chairmanship of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. So our interest here is to . . . this area, the whole area here, is very dry. Although there is potency of . . . there is potential for tapping water, it has been left dry and unused just like so much land all over. You can see. There is so much land which is unused, vacant, just like this. So we have been given this piece of land. We want to set an example of how such wasted land can be, with proper management and organization, it can be made usable to grow food, abundant food grains and fruits and to feed unlimited . . .

Prabhupāda: And offer them to Kṛṣṇa and give to them prasādam.

Mahāṁśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is our mission. We are already giving prasādam daily in the evening. There is no question of making profit.

Indian reporter (5): So anyone can come and live here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Indian reporter (5): Irrespective of religion . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Actually that is happening. Somebody has come from Germany, somebody from . . . (indistinct) . . . somebody Australia, somebody . . .

Indian reporter (6): And even if he doesn't subscribe the śikṣā to which you want them to. Even those who don't subscribe to . . .

Prabhupāda: Then how he can live? If he does not live like us, then how he can live?

Indian reporter (6): That is his question. Supposing he doesn't subscribe, still will he be allowed to come and live?

Prabhupāda: No, no, if he lives, then he will subscribe. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. If you associate with good men you become a good man. If you associate with drunkard, you become a drunkard. So we are giving the chance, "Associate with us and you'll be devotee." That is becoming. So we are giving that chance: "Come and live with us."

Indian reporter (6): And what are the other point of stress in temples . . .?

Mahāṁśa: Yes. To facilitate a harmonious Kṛṣṇa conscious community we will have all facilities. There will be temples.

Prabhupāda: Let them come here, live peacefully, eat sumptuously, get all the other necessities of life and become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our . . . and we have no discrimination, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. No. We have got many Christians, many Jews, many Hindus, many Muslims, many Africans. They are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Indian reporter (5): Even in India, Muslims are taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim India or same India, those who are intelligent, they are taking.

Indian reporter (5): In this country also have they taken?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of the Pakistanis, they have taken. Of course, he is living in foreign country.

Indian reporter (5): Doesn't matter whatever; but living in Islam.

Prabhupāda: One Dr. Ramjan, he is the professor in Portland. He is my disciple. I have given him the name Rāmarañjana from Ramjan.

Indian reporter (3): He has renounced his religion of Islam.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. Yes. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). That is wanted.

Indian reporter (3): Can you repeat his name, please?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian reporter (3): Can you give his name?

Prabhupāda: I said, Ramjan, Dr. Ramjan, in Portland University.

Mahāṁśa: Also Ātreya Ṛṣi.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Ātreya Ṛṣi, yes. He is Iranian.

Dr. Ramachandra: He is also Muslim?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Many Iranians, they have become our devotees. We have got a temple in Tehran.

Devotee: In Hyderabad there is Muslim. He is a Life Member.

Prabhupāda: No, that, Life Member . . . God consciousness . . . who will deny God? It is a science. So we are teaching the science, not the bigotry, "my God," "your God." God is one. Gold is gold. Gold does not become Hindu gold, Muslim gold or Christian gold. Anywhere gold is available, it is gold. That is our definition. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ (SB 1.2.6). That is highest, topmost type of religion, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, where one can learn how to love God, that's all. That is wanted. We are teaching that. There is no question of "this God," "that God." God is one. You just practice how to love Him. Then your religion is first class.

Indian reporter (5): But why give names to Him? Why give names to that God?

Prabhupāda: No name. When I say yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, this is not name. Adhokṣaja means "who is beyond your sense perception."

Indian reporter (5): It can be Allah, Christ, even Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you must know what is meaning of God. That's all. His name . . . just like water. You say "water"; he says pāni; he says autuk. So water is water. Similarly, you must know what is God. Name does not matter. But Kṛṣṇa is the perfect name. Kṛṣṇa, according to Sanskrit, "all-attractive." The God must be all-attractive; otherwise how He is God? That is the perfect name. Now, if you want to give another name we have no objection. There are hundreds and thousands of names, whatever you like. But it must be God's name. You must understand what is God. Then it is perfect. (aside) Get on this light. It is scientific. It is not a religious sentiment. Why they should manufacture God? God is God. Gold is gold. And God definition is there in the Vedic literature.

aiśvaryasya samagrasya
vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
sannam iti bhaga . . .
(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)

Bhagavān. These are the bhāgas, opulences. One who possesses all these opulences, He is God, Bhagavān. Asty arthe vatup. So all opulences. God is not shortage of opulences. All opulences. All the riches. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). This is God. He is the proprietor of everything.

So unless you accept this formula, how you get conception of God? God is not a proprietor of three bīghās of land. Here is God: sarva-loka-maheśvaram. That is God. God is not limited. He is unlimited. I can say I have got lakh of rupees, you can say you have got crore of rupees, but God says: "I am the proprietor of all the riches." That we cannot say. That is God's wealth. And because He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer, supreme enjoyer, bhoktā. But we are manufacturing different bhoktās, therefore there is controversy. If we accept "God is bhoktā—we are simply dependent on Him," then the whole question is solved. The United Nation is . . . (break)

Indian reporter (5): . . . has food got to do with?

Prabhupāda: Yes. God says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He never said, māṁsaṁ din māṁ māṁsam. (laughter) If you are God conscious, then you must give. Suppose you are here. If I invite you, then I'll ask you, "Sir, how can I serve you?" If you say: "Give me this kind of food," then that is real service. And you do not like something, and if I say: "Oh, this flesh is very nice. You take it," is that service? God demands this. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. So we are God's servant. We are giving with these groups of food. And after He's eating, we are taking. We are servant. We cannot say: "My dear master, I like this flesh. You take it." That is not service. So therefore fool has to do everything because God wants it. And if you say: "God is nirākāra. He has no mouth, no head, tail," then you can manufacture. But here God says.

Indian reporter (6): Now that you have established the āśrama, will you be spending part of the year here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have got so many centers that if I stay in each center three days, the whole year is finished. (laughs) What can be done?

Indian reporter (5): Swāmījī, how many āśramas and things you have?

Prabhupāda: Hundred and two—big, big āśramas. And we are feeding twenty thousand men daily, without any income. The God sends. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). We are spending twelve lakhs of rupees per month in New York, and similarly other centers.

Indian reporter (6): Twelve lakhs also in Delhi center only?

Prabhupāda: New York. New York.

Indian reporter (5): Where do you get these funds?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian reporter (5): Where do you get these funds?

Prabhupāda: God sends.

Indian reporter (5): God?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (5): But he's not sending funds, the God, planning commissioner.

Prabhupāda: Because he is not devotee. How He'll send? You feed your son, not the outsider.

Indian reporter (5): But God doesn't discriminate.

Prabhupāda: So that, general food is there, but special, special mercy is for the devotee. Just like you have got sympathy for all the children, but you have got special sympathy for your own children.

Indian reporter (4): How many āśramas do you have in India?

Prabhupāda: India, I have got about six, seven.

Devotee: Eight.

Prabhupāda: Eight. Out of 102, in India I have got only eight. In America we have got forty centers.

Hari-śauri: Fifty with the farms.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: Fifty, more than fifty, with the farms.

Prabhupāda: Farms.

Indian reporter (3): Fifty, five zero.

Indian reporter (5): Yes, five zero.

Indian reporter (3): Here?

Prabhupāda: No, in America. We have got farms like this. They are very successful. They are eating fresh vegetables, fresh grains and milk, and chanting. The temple is there. They have left the city life. So I want to organize that here also. We have already one in Navadvīpa. The devotees are there. They are having their own cloth, own food, own milk, residence, and chanting. That's all.

Indian reporter (3): Total membership for around the world?

Prabhupāda: Total membership is practically unlimited. Because we are now getting opposition, so . . . but actually dedicated life, about ten thousand like these boys.

Indian reporter (5): What's going to be the name of this āśrama?

Prabhupāda: It is already told. It is ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust.

Indian reporter (5): The name of the Trust will be the name of the āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: New Naimiṣāraṇya?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: New Naimiṣāraṇya?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is secondary, but legal is . . .

Dr. Ramachandra: Shall we go now?

Mahāṁśa: I'll take them around.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Show them. Thank you very much. (break)

Indian reporter (8): Mr. Patel?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (8): Did he invite you or . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (8): Any idea of the topics?

Prabhupāda: About Bhagavad-gītā. Some of them, they are a little surprised how I have alone spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, and all the yogīs and svāmīs, they could not rise, combined together. That is his little surprise.

Indian reporter (8): Did it surprise Bhave?

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise why he is inviting me? He could not do.

Indian reporter (8): And Swāmījī, when you are meeting Bhave?

Devotee: Eighteenth.

Prabhupāda: Eighteenth. Not only him, but there are so many svāmīs. They are also going. But not a single Kṛṣṇa devotee they could turn. That's a fact. For the last two hundred years. That's a fact. You cannot deny the fact. But within ten years we have got so many centers and so many . . . that is little surprising.

Indian reporter (8): You'll be talking about the cow protection also.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). He is giving you. That is our duty. I told these boys, "The cows, whether they give milk or not milk, it doesn't matter. They should be given protection."

Indian reporter (8): They should be given . . .?

Prabhupāda: Given protection. If Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya . . . He doesn't say only give protection to the milk cow.

Indian reporter (8): Once they expire, how do you propose to dispose of the body?

Prabhupāda: Then they can eat, those who are eating cows. Just like in our country the chāmāras, they take away and take the skin for preparing shoes and eat the flesh and use the bone. So we request those who are flesh eaters that "Wait up to the natural death. Why you are killing?"

Indian reporter (9): So you support actually government ban of slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Certainly.

Indian reporter (9): After the cow is dead, if the flesh is taken, it is . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (9): You have no objection.

Prabhupāda: No. The vultures, they live on the cow's flesh, so what objection we have got? We don't . . . we say: "Don't kill."

Indian reporter (9): After the natural death, not slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. If they are . . . now you can do whatever you like. Our philosophy . . .

Indian reporter (9): It is only ten-year-old movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (9): It started in . . .

Prabhupāda: It started in actually 1967. But the preliminary arrangement was made from 1965. Two years I had to spend for making the suitable ground.

Indian reporter (9): Obviously the first one you started in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (9): The first āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Yes. New York.

Indian reporter (9): And that was in '67.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It was registered in . . . by the end of '66.

Hari-śauri: July '66.

Prabhupāda: July '66. And then it took some time to find out some place. So in '67 I found out some place.

Indian reporter (9): But you don't have an overall budget of all these 102 āśramas, for daily expenditure.

Prabhupāda: I have my Book Trust. The daily collection of Book Trust is five to six lakhs of rupees. Daily.

Indian reporter (9): Daily. Oh, Book Trust. Oh, by the sale of books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And I have asked them, "Fifty percent, you print books again, and fifty percent, you spend." That's all. Same thing.

Indian reporter (9): Spend on what?

Prabhupāda: Spend for this purpose, propagation. That is my mi . . . and if I would have taken some royalty, then my daily income would have been not less than 75,000 per day.

Indian reporter (9): After income tax, little would be left. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: There is no income tax. We are charity.

Indian reporter (9): 75,000 daily, you said.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because five to six lakhs daily collection. If I take minimum fifteen percent, what it comes to? Big, big authors, they get twenty-five percent.

Indian reporter (9): But one . . . (indistinct) . . . I think in this temple . . . some of your books are, rather, prohibitively costly.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this was meant for the outsider. Because our countrymen, they are learned, they don't require.

Indian reporter (9): No, no, but are you keeping it for other . . .

Prabhupāda: They are so learned, they don't require anybody. (laughter) Therefore it is prohibited. Better they do not take it. Otherwise they will misinterpret. That's all. Their only business is misinterpret. Therefore the prohibitive price.

Indian reporter (9): There is something which is difficult to make them understand.

Prabhupāda: Therefore better they do not take it.

Indian reporter (9): It's easy to go in the virgin soil.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not understand what is the meaning of śāstra. They want to interpret śāstra in their own way. That is the difficulty. Big, big person . . .

Indian reporter (9): Real testing would be only in India in that case.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa does not speak for Indians. He is for everyone.

Indian reporter (9): The sections of your movement accept in that sense.

Prabhupāda: No, they have given up. They have purposefully given up that, "This religion and śāstra has killed our nation. Better give it up. Throw it in the water." This is the leaders' plea. Therefore they are changing. They have altogether rejected this.

Indian reporter: No, they don't reject. They give religious freedom.

Prabhupāda: What is freedom? That "Whatever you like, you do."

Indian reporter: No, not that.

Prabhupāda: So then what is freedom?

Indian reporter: Whichever religion I like, I can . . . free to follow it.

Prabhupāda: This freedom means you can manufacture your own religion, and this is freedom. They want this freedom, that you can manufacture. Yato mata tato patha, as the Ramakrishna Mission says that, "You can manufacture your own way of religion."

Dr. Ramachandra: Somebody said religion is the opium of the masses.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will say.

Dr. Ramachandra: That is . . . they trained us.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Ramachandra: I think you're correct in saying that the government has rejected it, in that sense.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is religion. That is the difficulty. Religion is here. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is religion.

Indian reporter (9): But recently a political party also has alleged that ISKCON temples have become abode of the CIA agents. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian reporter (9): What do you say for it?

Prabhupāda: We are detecting who is irreligious. That's all. That is our business.

Indian reporter (3): They are detecting who is irreligious.

Prabhupāda: He is going on in the name of religion, but he does not know what is religion. So that we are detecting. You can say like that. This is our business.

Indian reporter (3): It was an allegation by an important . . .

Prabhupāda: It is allegation. And they are so fools that the Americans, they have come here to become Vaiṣṇava and starvation and they have become religious. They have no food there, and they have come to me, and they have no dress, they have . . . and this boy is English boy. He is giving me massage as if he's a poor man's son. This is . . . is he poor man's son? Why he is giving massage? We are Indian, poor Indian. He is not in need of money. He even buys his own cloth. The other day I was chastising him, "Why you are purchasing? You take." "No, I have got money." Just see. This is their position.

Dr. Ramachandra: Sir, may we take leave?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Jara theek se lijiye, humlog CIA hain. (Take it properly, we are the CIA.) (laughter)

Dr. Ramachandra: This is wild allegation.

Prabhupāda: It is no reason . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . as if they have no money to go to the hotel.

Dr. Ramachandra: In India everything is after CIA now.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Ramachandra: Everything is after CIA.

Prabhupāda: And in Parliament it has been denied. Rather, Home Member said that, "We have no information that they are CIA." Parliament challenged, "What steps you are going to take?" And "No step. There is no information." (background conversation) They are afraid of the American government because of this Bangladesh affair. And otherwise government appreciates this movement. But because the Americans are there, they think, "Some may do something," in this way. Yes. But there is no such chance. They are all devotees. They have nothing to do . . .

Dr. Ramachandra: This is a purely religious movement.

Prabhupāda: That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.

Dr. Ramachandra: I am doctor from Hyderabad, so I wanted to pay my respects to you.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much.

Dr. Ramachandra: I am eye specialist practicing in Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: You are very qualified.

Dr. Ramachandra: With your grace. So I have been thinking of meeting you for a long time, and when I was told you are leaving tomorrow, then I said I would come and pay my respects to you.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Very good. Thank you.

Dr. Ramachandra: It's our luck that I could meet you. You are a great leader of . . . religious leader, you see, international. And you belong to order of the Caitanya Maṭha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Ramachandra: It's a great bhakti movement. So any services I am prepared to give for the āśrama, with your . . .

Prabhupāda: (aside) So keep this card. The Dr. Ramachandra is ready.

Dr. Ramachandra: I am on telephone also.

Prabhupāda: So any help you want, he'll give. It is very nice. Phir aaiye. (Come again.)

Dr. Ramachandra: I only want that your movement should utilize my services, because I believe service to mankind is service to God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, service to God is service to mankind. If you pour water in the root, then it is service to the tree. And if you pour water on the leaf, then nobody is served. Everything will be dry, that's all. That is imperfect service. If you have got realization of God, why should you give only human being service? Why not tiger? He is also . . . Kṛṣṇa says: "They are also My sons." That means you discriminate. That is not that . . . father will be satisfied when all the sons are given, not partial, not partial. Suppose I have got five children. If you give service to one children, so I'll ask that, "Why not other children?" Naturally.

Dr. Ramachandra: Discrimination comes.

Prabhupāda: Discrimination comes. So if you have realized God, then you must be learned. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Dr. Ramachandra: Śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Prabhupāda: Why you make distinction, daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? If Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why not dhanī? So our vision is either he is dhanī or daridra, he is blind because he does not know God.

Dr. Ramachandra: You want to give light.

Prabhupāda: That's all. We do not discriminate in that way. We discriminate in this way, that "Here is a man who knows about God, and here is a man who does not know."

Dr. Ramachandra: Any service for āśrama, I am volunteering, sir.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Service . . . so long we have got this body, we require your service. We have got the eyes. Naturally . . .

Dr. Ramachandra: So you can kindly tell your disciples

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So take. He's so kind. That's it. (end)