760422 - Lecture BG 09.04 - Melbourne

Lectures by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Lecture

760422BG-MELBOURNE - April 22, 1976 - 49.03 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (chants verse; devotees respond)

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

jagad avyakta-mūrtinā

mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

(BG 9.4)

(01:18)

So this is the fourth verse of the subject matter, the confidential and the king of knowledge, to understand God. This is the subject matter. So yesterday we discussed that

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

aprāpya māṁ nivartante

mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani

(BG 9.3)

There are two ways. One destination is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Another destination is to be involved in the cycle of birth and death. So this human form of life is the junction to decide where you make your way. You are going to back to home, back to Godhead, or again you are going back to the cycle of birth and death, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani? Vartmani means "path." That you have to decide in this human form of life. Because you are not animal. Animal, they have no intelligence. Their first duty is where to get money, er, not money—food. Money is required for purchasing food, but the animals, they do not know that food can be purchased. They are searching after food. But we are civilized; we are searching after money. Money is required for purchasing food. Why don't you produce food directly? That is intelligence. You are getting money, very good. What is that money? A paper. You are being cheated. It is written there "hundred dollars." But what is that hundred dollars? It is cheap of . . . piece of paper only. But because we are so fool, we are accepting a piece of paper, "hundred dollars," and the struggle for existence for a piece of paper. Why don't you be intelligent—"Why shall I take the piece of paper? Give me food"? But that intelligence you have lost. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say the present human society is combination of cheaters and cheated, that's all. No intelligent person. Formerly money was gold and silver coins. It had some value. But what is the present currency? Simply piece of paper, bunch of papers. During the last war the government failed in Germany, and these bunch of papers were thrown in the street. Nobody was caring. Nobody was caring.

So our civilization is based on that way. You require food. That's fact. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). You produce your food. Anywhere you can produce your food. The land is enough land. In Australia you have got enough land. In Africa you have enough land, uncultivated. No, they'll not produce food. They will produce coffee and tea and slaughter animals. This is their business. I understand that in your country animals are slaughtered and exported for trade. Why export? You produce your own food and be satisfied. Why you are after that piece of hundred dollars paper? Produce your own food and eat sumptuously, be healthy and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is civilization. This is civilization.

So therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "One who does not take care of My instruction," aśraddadhānāḥ, "no faith . . ." Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ (BG 9.3). Puruṣa means any man, any human being, living being, but a human being, because otherwise who will hear Kṛṣṇa? The cats and dogs will not hear. That is not possible. They have no capacity. But you are all human being. Either you are Australian or Indian or American or . . . you can hear Bhagavad-gītā. There is no doubt about it. It is a question of explaining in your language. So we are trying to do that. The Bhagavad-gītā, the message of Bhagavad-gītā, is not sectarian. Don't take it like that. It is science how to make the whole human society peaceful and happy. It doesn't matter whether you are Australian, American, Indian or African. And practically we see—we have got branches all over the world—those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are happy. So take it very seriously. Don't neglect it, that "It is a sectarian religion of the Hindus or . . ." No. Kṛṣṇa is not for the Hindus.

Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that, (child cries in the background) sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4): in every forms of life, as many living entities are there. I have explained, there are different forms of life. Even within the water there are 900,000 forms of life. This is Vedic knowledge. You can take directly knowledge. You can understand. You do not require to dive into the water and make study, aquatic research work. You take the knowledge from the Vedic literature, you'll immediately understand that there are 900,000 species of life. This is different forms. The living entity, soul, is everywhere. But according to his karma . . . Just like nowadays people are very much fond of diving within the water and swim. This has become a fashion. So next life they are going to become fish. (laughter) Yes. Because yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If you, at the time of death, if you think of that how to swim very nicely within the water, that means next life nature will give you a fish life. You get it. That is God's mercy. Why you artificially try to become a fish? You become actually fish. That is nature's gift. So you'll get. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran. This is stated in the Bhagavad . . . Because whatever we practice in our life, so that concept of life, that imagination, continues.

Just like you dream. What do you dream? Whatever you think always, you dream like that. It is mental activities. So those who are trying to become fishlike, nature offers him a actual body of fish. That is transmigration of the soul. We are desiring different types of desires and we are getting a body. This is nature's law. Just like you infect some type of contagious disease, you suffer from that disease. Nature's way. It will be automatically manufactured. That is the disease. Similarly, the body will be automatically manufactured. This is the nature's law. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You are under the control of the material nature, and if you are manufacturing different ideas, nature will give you the facility to have such body. That is called transmigration of the soul. Therefore we find so many varieties of forms of life within the water, on the land, so many plants, so many varieties of trees, so many varieties of insect, so many varieties of birds, beast, and then human life, then civilized life. So in this way, by the process of evolution, we come to this point of human form of life. And if you are actually civilized, then take advantage of the instruction of Kṛṣṇa and make your choice, whether you are going back to home, back to Godhead, or again in the cycle of birth and death. This is the point.

So if we accept the instruction given by Kṛṣṇa with faith, then our life are successful. And why you should not take? It is not very difficult. And if we take Kṛṣṇa's instruction . . . He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is speaking everything which is correct. If you take instruction from others . . . Others means those who have no connection with God, or Kṛṣṇa. They cannot give you correct information because they are conditioned under the laws of nature. The defect is, ordinary person will commit mistake, will be illusioned, his senses are imperfect and he has the tendency to cheat. This is ordinary living being. And those who are followers of Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa Himself, they have no such defect. Whatever they say, that is correct. So if we take correct knowledge, then our life is successful. And if we want to be cheated, then there are many cheaters. They'll cheat you. So make your choice, which way you shall go, whether you shall go back to home, back to Godhead, or again go to the cycle of birth and death, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).

That is our practical experience. We are changing our body. In the mother's womb we were very small. In the first night after sex the two seminas, they mix up and then it becomes a form of a pea. Within that pea form, substance, the living entity takes shelter and gradually grows. Then there are nine holes, and then the hands and legs and everything becomes complete, and when, if he can sustain, then nature's law push him by the air, and he comes out of the mother's womb and then again grows in different types of bodies, and then he becomes old man. Then, when the body is no more usable, then the body is finished and the soul again enters another mother's body. This is called transmigration of the soul. This is going on, but this is not very happy thing. Today you may have Australian body or American body or Indian body, but when this body is finished, what is the next body you are going to get? You must have information. You are human being. But that education is not there. There is no education throughout the whole world how the soul is being transmigrated from one body to another; what body we are going to get next; this will be happy or distressful.

If we get a nice body, human form or demigod, we may live very happily. Not happily; at least better than the animals. But if we get the body of an animal, then just imagine what is the suffering. If you get the body of a tree, now just imagine. A tree is standing in the open atmosphere. There is snowfall, there is scorching heat, but it has no power to move an inch. That is also life. And you can move from here to there. You have facility. So now, in the human form of life, you have got all facilities given by God. You take advantage of it. Don't put yourself again in the laws of nature and be liberated. Go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

It is the most topmost humanitarian activities, to give them information that in this life . . . What we are informing? The same thing as Kṛṣṇa is. Kṛṣṇa is informing. We don't manufacture any ideas. That is not our business. Therefore we present this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. As it is. We don't change it. Why we shall change? We are not greater authority than Kṛṣṇa. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has said, that is perfect. Why shall I change it? There are many rascals, they change the meaning, the interpretation. But that is misleading. You cannot change. Everything is very clear. Just like you do not require a lamp to show the sun. The sunshine itself is quite bright to see sun. If body says, "I have brought one lamp. You can see," this is nonsense. So Bhagavad-gītā is so perfectly illuminated that anyone can understand without any very advanced knowledge; simple knowledge. Just like this transmigration of the soul. How simply it is, people cannot understand it. But Kṛṣṇa is explaining this transmigration of the soul so nicely.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara-prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

That . . . Kṛṣṇa says that asmin dehe: "In this body there is the proprietor of the body, soul. And because the proprietor of the body is there, therefore body is changing different forms." How? Now, just like from babyhood to childhood, childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, youthhood to middle-aged, then old man. And when the body is no longer durable, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As you have come through so many bodies, so when the body is no more usable, you get another. So where is the difficulty to understand? Plain thing. Plain thing.

But we are stubborn. We do not wish to understand. This is not a sectarian; this is a science. If a child becomes a boy, is that sectarian? The Hindu child becomes a boy, Hindu boy, and the Christian child becomes a Christian. That is outward: Hindu, Muslim, Christian. But within this body . . . I am Hindu or Christian because I have got this body from the Christian father-mother, Hindu father-mother. But that is body. I am not this body. Therefore we have to understand first that "I am not this body; therefore I am not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian, not black, not white. I am pure spirit soul." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is the first basic knowledge. This is not sectarian. This is a basic knowledge, you believe or not believe. If a child says, "No, no, I don't believe that I shall become a boy . . ." But you believe or . . . you must have to become a boy. A boy says, "No, no, I shall not become a young man." No no, you must have to. That is nature's law. Similarly, if one says, "No, no, my this body finished, I will not get any body," no, no, no, you have to get it. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You must have to get. Now make your choice, which kind of body you shall get. That is intelligence. That is intelligence.

So that intelligence is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā, that yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). In this way last line is mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So if you like, you can go back to home; otherwise, as Kṛṣṇa says here, aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣāḥ. Aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā dharmasyāsya parantapa (BG 9.3). Dharma, this process, if one does not believe, then he is sure to go again to the cycle of birth and death. Aprāpya mām. He is given this offer, the opportunity. Just like this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is giving opportunity that you can go back to home, back to Godhead. But if we don't take this opportunity, if we manufacture our own way of life, then the . . . You cannot manufacture, because the laws of nature is above you. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). If by false prestige or false egotism you try to manufacture some ways and means for your happiness, that will never be possible, because above you the strong nature's law is there. Nature's law will act in its own way. It will not allow to change it by your so-called devices and fertile brain. That is not possible. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). It is simply by false prestige he is thinking that "I can chalk out my own way of life." No. That is not possible. You are completely under the laws of nature, and whatever nature will do, you'll have to accept. Next life, if nature, by nature, he gives you better body, demigod's body, you'll have to accept. And if the nature offers you a dog's body you have to accept it. You cannot change it. That is not possible.

So we must be very careful. Kṛṣṇa says very easy, that one can go back to home, back to Godhead very easily. How?

janma karma ca me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaun . . .

(BG 4.9)

Kṛṣṇa says, "I appear in this material world. I appear just like ordinary child appears. I take birth." Actually, Kṛṣṇa does not take birth. If you read Bhāgavata, you will see how He appeared. Anyway, even if you take Him that He appeared as the son of Vasudeva or Mother Yaśodā . . . You can say that He played just like a child in the hands of Mother Yaśodā. So that's all right. But you try to understand what kind of, this child display or līlā of Kṛṣṇa in front of Mother Yaśodā. That is required. Janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9). That is all divine, transcendental. So if we understand that "God has become a child" or "These people, accepting a child of certain woman whose name is Yaśodā as God," then you are mistaken. And if you understand that God has come as a child of this great devotee, Mother Yaśodā, just to fulfill her desire . . . Because Mother Yaśodā wanted God as her son. So God, being very much pleased on this devotee, He has appeared as a son of Mother Yaśodā. Two understanding. If you take Kṛṣṇa that "Here is a child born in a vaiśya family of Mother Yaśodā, Nanda Mahārāja, and these people are accepting Him as God," then you are mistaken.

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyam. It is transcendental, divine. Therefore there are so many śāstras to understand Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if Kṛṣṇa is ordinary child, then why there are so many books? There is no need of so many books to understand Kṛṣṇa, just to understand Him that He is not ordinary child; He is God Himself. Otherwise who is writing so many books for understanding a ordinary child? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "If one understands Me," tattvataḥ—tattvataḥ means in fact, in truth—"then he becomes so qualified that after . . ." We have to give up this body, any circumstances. That's a fact. Then such person who has become fully aware of Kṛṣṇa, such person, tyaktvā deham, giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), he does not take any more birth with another material body. Then what happens? Now, mām eti: "He comes to Me." That means he gets his original, spiritual body.

So if we simply try to understand . . . It is not very difficult. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. You try to understand Kṛṣṇa; then your life is successful. After giving up this body there is no more material body. You get spiritual body, and you enter in the spiritual world and dance with Kṛṣṇa, play with Kṛṣṇa, talk with Kṛṣṇa, live happily, blissful life. This is instruction. This is the propaganda we are making. Why we are writing so many books? We have already about eighty-two books simply on the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa, to understand Kṛṣṇa. "To understand Kṛṣṇa, oh, we can read books and we can understand." No, it is not so easy. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that,

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu

kaścid yatati siddhaye

yatatām api siddhānāṁ

kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ

(BG 7.3)

To understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, little difficult, because Kṛṣṇa says, "Out of many millions of person, one is interested to make his life perfect." Nobody is interested. Everyone is interested to live like animal— eat, drink, be merry and enjoy sex—and die like cats and dogs. That's all. This, so far, they know. But they do not know that we can make our life perfect here—no more death, no more birth, no more old age, no more disease. Who is interested? They think that this is story. No, it is fact. If you want to make your life so perfect, not to go through this process of birth, death, old age and disease, you can do that. There is process. But if we neglect, that is our business. But the śāstra, the knowledge, the Vedas, the big, big ācāryas, Kṛṣṇa, His incarnation, His devotees—they are simply trying to give you this knowledge that you can make your life perfect: no more death, no more birth, no more old age, no more disease. That you can make. That is possible.

Therefore śāstra says that gurur na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt pitā na sa syāt (SB 5.5.18), in this way, that na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. This is the perfect knowledge, perfection of life. Samupeta-mṛtyum. We have got a situation in this material world, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. But śāstra says, "One should not become a guru, one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, one should not become a relative, one should not become a friend," in this way, he says, "if one cannot give relief to his friend or son or disciple, relief from the impending birth, death, old age and disease." This is real contraceptive method. If you think that "If a child is born, I shall educate him in such a way that this birth will be his last birth. Next he is going to back to home, back to Godhead," then produce a child. Otherwise don't produce. This is spiritual contraceptive. This is real father and mother. Otherwise a dog is also becoming a father. (laughter) The such kind of father-becoming is not recommended in the Vedic civilization. Just become a real father to give the real benefit to the son. Then you become a father. This is called varṇāśrama-dharma, not to become . . .

It is said in a Bengali poem, janame janame sabe pitā-mātā pāya: "In every life everyone gets a father and mother." Because without father and mother there is no question of birth. Janame janame sabe pitā-mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja hari ei (Prema-vivarta): "But you cannot get the proper guidance, guru and Kṛṣṇa, in every life. You can get father-mother in every life, but you cannot get Kṛṣṇa and guru in every life." So we have got this chance this life, how to get Kṛṣṇa, how to get guru. We have got intelligence. We should not miss this point. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Take advantage of this movement. This is not a manufactured thing. It is authorized, spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and accepted by big, big ācāryas from very old time—Nāradadeva, Vyāsadeva, Asita. Then, in the recent years, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka and then Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Everyone has accepted this Vedic literature, and they have preached. Formerly they were preaching within India. Now, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, the preaching is going on all over the world. Take advantage of it. Make your life perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So if we take, accept this, that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa is saying, it is perfect," this is called śraddadhānaḥ, faith. Without faith you cannot make any progress. In every action you must have faith. Just like if you go to a barber, you spread your neck like this and he is with a razor. (laughter) He can immediately cut your throat. But because you have got faith—"No, this barber is honest. He'll not cut my throat. He'll cleanly shave . . ." So faith is required in every step. Without faith you cannot make step. Simply you have to find out the person that "He is worthy of keeping my faith." Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is accepted worthy of accepting His instruction. So take it very seriously. The Bhagavad-gītā is there. Then your life is successful.

So what Kṛṣṇa says, next verse? First of all He says,

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ

jagad avyakta-mūrtinā

mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni

na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ

(BG 9.4)

First of all in the beginning of the instruction one has to learn what he is, in the Second Chapter. Now, this is Ninth Chapter, far away. If we read chapter after chapter very nicely, then we come gradually to the perfection of knowledge. Now, here Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā. Everything, whatever you see, material or spiritual, that is Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam means everything. So Kṛṣṇa said that "I am spread all over the universe." Or, if you expand more, "That is my avyakta, nonmanifested form." Nonmanifested form.

The example is given just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? The sunshine is illumination and the heat also, heat and light, sunshine. Now if you go to the sun planet, then what is there? Heat and light. And if you enter into the sun planet and see the person, the supreme person within the sun . . . There is a supreme person. We do not know, but we understand from Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). He talked with the sun god, so there is sun god. There is god, or the president, you may say, president of the planet. And if the president is there, the government is there. There are living entities. In everywhere there are living entities. Don't think that you are simply here in this planet, and there is no living entity. It is wrong conception, foolish conception. So the president of the sun planet, he is the original person from where this sunshine and heat is coming. He is the person. And the population there, they are made so that their bodily effulgence is the heat and light, and that is being manifested in the sun globe.

So if we accept Kṛṣṇa's authority, then we can understand the sun globe, which the scientists are trying to understand but they have failed. But if we believe the words of Kṛṣṇa, then from here you can study what is the sun globe. This is a fact. You cannot imagine. You are teeny. You cannot become Dr. Frog within the well and try to understand Atlantic Ocean. That is not possible. Here the defect is, one is a small frog in the well and he is trying to understand the Atlantic Ocean. Three feet water. His jurisdiction is three feet water, and he is trying to understand Atlantic Ocean. That is the defect. For Atlantic Ocean you have to understand one has seen the Atlantic Ocean. Then you can understand. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā recommends,

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

Tattva-darśī, one has seen the truth. So here you have no difficulty. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He knows everything. You take the information, knowledge, from Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful. That is the propaganda of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya! (break)

Gurukṛpā: . . . His Divine Grace, Śrīla Prabhupāda, any question, you can raise your hand.

Guest (1): What is the highest devotion, the highest bhakti, please?

Prabhupāda: To love Kṛṣṇa. If you become expert how to love Kṛṣṇa . . . The idea of loving is not unknown to you. You love somebody. You love your wife. You love your children. You love your country. You love your society. There are so many loving aspect. But when you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That we have to . . .

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yenātmā samprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

That is the perfection of life, perfection of religious life, if one learns how to love Kṛṣṇa, and without any motive, ahaituki. Just like here in this world there is no love because within this so-called love there is a motive. I love a beautiful girl because she is beautiful. A girl loves a man because he has got money. So this is the meaning of this material love. But that, not that kind of love. Here there is a motive. So ahaituki, without any motive; apratihatā, without being debtor, without any obstacle. Love of God cannot be checked by any material impediments. You cannot say that "I am very poor. Oh, how can I love God?" You cannot say, "I am very rich," or "I am black," "I am white," "I am this," "I am that." No. These material impediments has nothing to do for loving God. In any condition you can love God. Ahaituky aprati . . . yenātmā samprasīdati. And if you attain that stage, then you become completely happy. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42): "I have no more want." That is perfection of life.

And so long you'll have want . . . The karmīs, jñānīs, yogīs, they are in want. The karmīs, they are simply wanting material happiness: "I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this." The whole world is rolling. Modern material civilization means to create wants. That is karmī. So they want. They will never be happy. They want this, that, that, that, that, that. There is no end. And jñānīs, when they are baffled, they want to become one with God, mukti. And yogīs, they want to show some magic, the magical power. So the karmīs, jñānīs, yogīs—everyone is in want. They cannot be happy. And when you come to the position, "My Lord, I do not want anything. Simply I want to serve You. Give me this opportunity," that is perfection.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā

(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11)

That is first class. Hmm. Yes?

Guest (2): Does God speak to me, within me, whether I listen or not?

Prabhupāda: God will speak just like you are speaking face to face if you are qualified.

Guest (2): Not in terms of words or even sound within me, but does . . .

Prabhupāda: Sound is speaking. Speaking is sound. There is no difference. When you speak there is sound.

Guest (2): Is the feeling of God within me, whether I . . .

Prabhupāda: God is within and without, both. Not only within. That is . . . That I was . . . I want to explain, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). "I am everywhere." God is not only within, but without. But we have to see Him. We must have the eyes to see Him. God is everywhere. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Everywhere. God is everywhere. So we have to qualify ourself how to talk with God, how to see God. Otherwise God is present everywhere.

Lady guest (3): How does one surrender to Kṛṣṇa?

Gurukṛpā: How does one surrender to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Surrender to Kṛṣṇa whatever you possess. What you possess? You possess your body, you possess your mind and, it may be, you possess a home, wife, children or husband, children. This is our possession. So when we surrender, "My dear Lord, whatever I have got . . . I have got this body, I have got little mind, speculation, and some . . . a home or husband, wife, children—everything surrendered to You." Mānasa deho geho, jo kichu mora, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says. We don't possess much. We possess whatever God has given us, little. So anyway, "Whatever we possess, everything is surrendered to You without any reservation." That is surrender.

Indian guest (4): This surrender is made or it happens?

Prabhupāda: You are already surrendered, but you are surrendered to the police of God. Just like a citizen: he has to surrender. He has to surrender to the police or to the government. If he surrenders to the government, then he hasn't got to the police custody in jail. So instead of surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, we have surrendered to His māyā. And the māyā is punishing us.

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti

(BG 7.14)

So if you want to get relief from the punishment of this māyā, then you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Your position is to surrender, either this side or that side.

Guest (2): What can you do to still two voices inside yourself? One voice tells me that the mystics' view on the world is correct and it has its own logic and it's consistent. And this, when I'm in a meditative mood, I can comprehend. But when I walk in the daylight and the illusions are around one, then the other voice talks and says, my so-called logical voice, my daily, logical voice, says, "That's a fantasy, a dream you're chasing. You're only putting your logic to it. Maybe it doesn't exist." How can one get over this doubt?

Prabhupāda: That means you are surrendering to different people. That is your position.

Guest (2): Sorry, I didn't hear you. Sorry.

Prabhupāda: You are surrendering to this boy or that boy, hearing. This is correct or that is correct. But you do not know what is correct. So under the circumstances, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa; you'll get the correct answer.

Guest (2): Be patient and wait.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because He is the Supreme, there is no cheating, there is no imperfection. Therefore you get the correct answer, you surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was told that . . . When one is speaking about Kṛṣṇa, how does he discriminate between being tactful and, on one hand, and, on the other hand, compromising when he is speaking?

Prabhupāda: To surrender to Kṛṣṇa is the best tactful, and if you surrender, He will give you instruction. Then all tactfulness will be there. Teṣām aham.

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ

bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam

buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ

yena mām upayānti te

(BG 10.10)

If you become completely surrendered, devotee of Kṛṣṇa—He is within your heart—He will give you right instruction so that every sphere of life you'll be perfect.

Guest (3): Why are people cruel? Why do they persecute other human beings and torture them? How is it they are able to do this?

Prabhupāda: Because he is not in his normal condition. Under the dictation of māyā, he is thinking, "This is my enemy; this is my friend," and he's acting like that. But when he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he becomes learned. There is no more enemy; everyone is friend. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). That is the highest stage of life. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end).