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720707 - Lecture SB 01.01.02 - London

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His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720707SB-LONDONN - July 07, 1972 - 46:59 Minutes

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: Then? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām.

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse)

dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ
vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu śivadaṁ tāpa-trayonmūlanam
śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ
sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate 'tra kṛtibhiḥ śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt
(SB 1.1.2)

Prabhupāda: All right. So what is the purport? Go on. "In the lower stage . . ." Read.

Pradyumna: "In the lower stages of human civilization there is always competition to lord it over the material nature or, in other words, there is a continuous rivalry to satisfy the senses."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So this rivalry, it is, of course, found . . . this rivalry for colonization, that is the special feature of the European countries. Rivalry. In India we have got experience. In America also, they have got experience, Canada. The Hollanders, the French people, the Spanish, Portugal and England. There was regularly rivalry how to occupy.

Within the past two hundred years there was rivalry. So according to Vedic civilization, there should not be rivalry. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You be satisfied what is allotted to you. Don't try to encroach upon others' property. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is Vedic civilization. One is satisfied . . .

In 1942 there was a famine, man-made famine, and in India so many people practically died of starvation. Not died, but they died by eating. There was scarcity of foodstuff, but when public began to give them food, so they ate so much that they fell sick and died, so many people.

Not by starvation, by eating. By starvation, nobody dies; by overeating, one dies. That is a statistic. The next death rate is for over-eating. In America is it not? Who said me the other . . .? The first death rate is from . . .

Pradyumna: From heart.

Prabhupāda: Heart trouble. And the next death rate is by overeating. So there cannot be any rivalry. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, nityo nityānām . . . we are all persons. Just like you consider me, I am the head of your society, similarly, there are so many heads, another head. Brahmā is head. There are so many Brahmās. Then, above them, there is Mahā-Viṣṇu, head. In this way, if you analyze, you'll go to Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So He has provided everyone's food. There is no problem. It is mistake to accept it that, "Because there is overpopulation in the world, there is problem." Just now like we were walking on the St. James Park, the swan, ducks, they are producing one dozen children at a time. And that is also twice, thrice in a year. So they have no problem. Where is the problem of overpopulation? They are not starving. Unless you go and capture them and kill them, they are not dying. You see from the birds, animals—nobody dies of starvation.

Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kṛṣṇa is there. He is supplying food for everyone. So where . . .? There is no question of starvation. Then why rivalry? Rivalry means, "I want to enjoy more sense gratification." That is rivalry. Otherwise, there is no question of rivalry. Everything is there, complete. Pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśo Invocation). God's creation is perfect. There cannot be any imperfectness. Even there is overpopulation, God will supply food. Don't bother.

But because we have no faith in God, because we have forgotten God, we do not know what is God, therefore we have created the economic problem. Otherwise there is no problem. You can see how they are jolly, they are walking. So by nature's study we have to learn. If we don't go to the Vedic knowledge, we can see that, "Where is the problem in the lower animals?" There is no problem. They are confident. The problems for lower animal is there when they are in the city, but if they live natural life, there is no problem.

Therefore śāstra says:

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
(SB 1.5.18)

In these different species of life we are wandering in different planets. So trying to solve the economic problem, so many leaders came to solve the economic problem and they went away. The problems remained where it was there. But they are coming and going. Kata catur-anana mari mari yāvata (Śrīla Vidyāpati Ṭhākura). The so-called leaders are coming and going, but because there is no God consciousness, the problems are there.

In our country, big leaders like Gandhi and others, they came and went away. They thought, "If the Britishers go away, then our problems will be solved," but actually there is no solution of problem. There is Pakistan problem, this problem, that problem—so many problems. So in this way we cannot solve our problems. The problems can be solved if we endeavor for developing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then problems will be solved. Otherwise there is no problem. Read next line.

Pradyumna: "Driven by such consciousness, man turns to religion. He thus performs pious activities or religious functions in order to gain something material."

Prabhupāda: Now, formerly—now also—those who are not atheists, when there are problems, they turn to God, who are theists. Those who are atheists, they will not. That is, two classes of men there are: atheists and theists. The theist, who believes in God, whenever he is distressed, whenever he is facing some problem, he turns towards God: "God, save us." That is nice, very nice. They are called pious.

When there are problems, when they look towards God, such person is called pious. It is described in Bhagavad-gītā, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna (BG 7.16). Sukṛtina means pious. Su means good, and kṛtina means activities. And similarly, the opposite number, that is called duṣkṛtina. Du means . . . duṣ means bad, and kṛtina means activities.

So there are two classes of men: one class of men who are pious . . . pious means those who are regularly following the religious principles. It does not matter what religion you follow. If you follow the religious principles in whichever religion you accept, then you are pious. If you do not follow the religious principles, then you are impious, duṣkṛtina. So at the present moment, practically all over the world they are no longer interested with God and religion.

Just like in your city, London, there are so many churches for sale. Why? Because people have become duṣkṛtina. They are no more interested in religion and God. Just see. Otherwise, why the churches should be sold? People are not interested. In India also, the temples, many temples, they are uncared for. They are not for sale—so maybe some of them are also for sale—but I have seen many temples uncared for. At night, one dog is entering and living within the temple.

So people have become disinterested in religion and God at the present moment. So therefore according to Bhagavad-gītā such persons are duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means miscreants or always engaged in sinful activities. If you are not religious, then you must act sinfully.

So people are becoming duṣkṛtina. Instead of becoming sukṛtina, they are becoming duṣkṛtina. And as a result of that, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). They are becoming rascals and lowest of the mankind. And whatever their university degrees are there, that knowledge is useless. And they are not going to surrender to God. This is the present position. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Those who are coming to God, they are called sukṛtina, pious. But generally common men, even though he is pious, he goes to God to get some material profit. That is being discussed.

Go on.

Pradyumna: "But if such material gains are obtainable in other ways, then so-called religion is neglected. This is the situation in modern civilization."

Prabhupāda: Yes. For the leaders . . . they are seeing this poor man is going to church or to temple for asking God, "God, give us our daily bread," they are taking the opportunity to spread atheism. They say: "Well, you have prayed for your bread in the temple or in the church. Have you got the bread?" They say: "No. Not yet." "All right. Come to me. You ask me bread." "Yes."

They are innocent. "Yes, Mr. Such-and-such, give me bread," and he gives bread, "Take this bread." Then they are convinced, "Oh, God cannot give us bread. Our political leader can give bread." This is . . . propaganda is going on. You see? "God cannot give us bread, but our political leader can give us bread."

But they are innocent. They do not know that this rascal politician, wherefrom he has brought the bread? Has he manufactured in the factory wheat, rice, grains? Then unless God has given you grain, wheat, rice and other grains, how you can make bread? So far they cannot go. Actually, God gives us bread. If there is famine, if there is no production of grains, where is the politician, father, who will able to give you bread?

This requires little intelligence that, "Actually God is giving us bread, not this politician." But people have no such intelligence, and there is regular propaganda against God; so people are becoming godless. The whole civilization is now godless, and therefore there are so many sufferings.

Hmm. Go on.

Pradyumna: "Man is thriving economically, so at present he is not very interested in religion."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are instructing, "If you want economic development, why you are going to church and temple? Just start industry. You'll get money." That is propaganda is going on. At least in our country, in India, it is going on. "Forget now God and temples. Just try to imitate America. Overnight become industrialist."

But they are not teaching them that America or Western countries, after industrialization, now they are producing hippies. That they do not see. They are seeing one side that, "America and Western countries, they have become so prosperous by industrialization. Let us imitate them. We must have."

Actually, India, after independence, should have distributed this spiritual knowledge. Why we should compete with industrialization? They have got also demand for the spiritual knowledge. So India should have given the spiritual knowledge to the Western countries instead of competing with industry. And that is a fact.

Now I alone started this movement. There is so much response because they are hankering after this. Caitanya Mahāprabhu hinted therefore:

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

"Those who have taken birth as human being in Indian, on the land of Bhārata-varṣa, they should learn their spiritual assets and distribute it throughout the world for real welfare activity." This was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's indication. That was my Guru Mahārāja's indication. With that indication I tried, and somehow or other, it is coming to be successful.

Now it is in your hand, you European and American young boys and girls. You take it seriously. From India they are coming, but I am very sorry to inform, they are not giving the real . . . not delivering the real culture. So we do not want to discuss that point.

But now you are intelligent boys and girls. You have taken this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Try to understand more philosophically and distribute all over the world. That is my request. Otherwise the world is doomed. Without this spiritual knowledge, without God consciousness, the whole world is doomed.

Go on.

Pradyumna: "Churches, mosques or temples are now practically vacant. Men are more interested in factories, shops and cinemas than in religious places which were erected by their forefathers. This practically proves that religion is performed for some economic gain. Economic gains are needed for sense gratification. Often when one is baffled in the pursuit of sense gratification he takes to salvation and tries to become one with the Supreme Lord. Consequently, all these states are simply different types of sense gratification.”

"In the Vedas, the above-mentioned four activities are prescribed in the regulative way so that there will not be any undue competition for sense gratification. But Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is transcendental to all these sense gratificatory activities. It is purely transcendental literature, which can be understood only by the pure devotees of the Lord who are transcendental to competitive sense gratification. In the material world there is keen competition between animal and animal, man and man, community and community, nation and nation.”

"But the devotees of the Lord rise above such competition. They do not compete with the materialists, because they are on the path back to Godhead, where life is eternal and blissful. Such transcendentalists are nonenvious and pure in heart. In the material world everyone is envious of everyone else, and therefore there is competition. But the transcendental devotees of the Lord are not only free from material envy . . ."

Prabhupāda: Therefore this bhāgavata-dharma, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is meant for persons who are not envious. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Nirmatsara. Matsaratā. Matsaratā means to become intolerant when his neighbor is prosperous. That is called matsara. Everyone is envious. If his neighbor, if his brother, if his friend becomes more prosperous than himself, he becomes envious. This is material nature. Similarly, in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, if we become envious, "Oh, my Godbrother, oh, he has become so popular. He is making so much progress. So put some impediments towards his progressive path," this is also material.

The Vaikuṇṭha consciousness is that if your neighbor, if your brother is prosperous or progressive, then one should think, "Oh, he's so nice that he has served God so nicely. God is so pleased upon him that he is making so nice progress." That is Vaikuṇṭha consciousness. And material consciousness is that, "Oh, he has advanced so much. Oh, let me check him." This is material. That is going on. The whole world, enviousness.

I remember in . . . long ago, about sometimes in 1936, my eldest son in Bombay—he was in school—he stood first. So his class friends became envious that, "Here is a boy, he is coming from Bengal, and he has stood first." They wanted to fight with him. My son came and complained to me that, "This is the position." Just see. Children even, envious. You see. That means this is the nature of this world. If you prosper, then your brothers and your neighbors, your friends, will be envious.

So this bhāgavata-dharma is not for such envious persons. Therefore it is stated here, paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satām (SB 1.1.2). Not for the envious persons. The envious persons—that means materialists—they will not be able to understand what is spoken in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-bhāgavate mahā-muni-kṛte kiṁ vā parair īśvaraḥ sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate (SB 1.1.2). So our process is, because we are envious by nature, therefore we have to cleanse our heart. Therefore we have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra very rigidly, regularly. Then our this enviousness, the dirty things, will be over, and we shall be able to understand what is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the graduate study. Those who are interested in God, for them, this is graduate study. The entrance study is Bhagavad-gītā. Just like you pass your entrance examination, matriculation examination, then you are entered into college, then you become graduate; similarly, after reading Bhagavad-gītā, you are allowed to enter into the understanding of God.

Because in the Bhagavad-gītā the ultimate instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). There are discussion of the yoga, karma, jñāna, bhakti . . . everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. But ultimately the last instruction is that, "This is the secret of success, My dear Arjuna," guhyatamam. "You simply surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection." Mā śucaḥ, "Don't bother." This is required. This is the beginning of God consciousness. So unless we have finished nicely the study of Bhagavad-gītā or unless we have accepted this proposition of God that "You surrender," there is no entrance in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means one who has at least understood what is God. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins His teaching where Kṛṣṇa ended. Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same Personality of Godhead. As Kṛṣṇa, He demanded . . . because God can demand like that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You just surrender unto Me."

What God can say? God cannot say that, "You jump over My head." God can say like that, "You surrender." That is God's word. God cannot allow you that you jump over His head. You can jump over His head, but that requires great advancement of love for God. That is another thing.

Just like the cowherd boys, they are jumping over Kṛṣṇa. That position . . . you can also have, but after kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. After amassing many lives' simply pious activities, you can have that post. Just like it is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtyā
dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena
māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa
sākaṁ vijahruḥ kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ
(SB 10.12.11)

Vyāsadeva is describing the cowherds boy: "Oh, these cowherds boy, they are kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. They accumulated many millions of births' pious activities, and now they are allowed to play with Kṛṣṇa as His friend." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Itthaṁ dāsyaṁ gatānām.

So, Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore begins . . . people misunderstood Kṛṣṇa. There are rascal scholars, they misunderstood. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66): "Give up everything. Simply surrender unto Me alone." Mām ekam. He doesn't say even to Nārāyaṇa or Viṣṇu. Because we are so fool, as soon as Kṛṣṇa will say: "I am Viṣṇu, I am all," then "Everything is one. Everything is one." That's all. Therefore He says particularly, mām ekam: "Only unto Me alone." Because if one understands Kṛṣṇa, then gradually he understands other things.

But in the beginning if it is said . . . similarly, in Bible also I have seen that, "Through me." Because they were so fool, if they are allowed to go elsewhere, they will commit mistake. Therefore that was nice. To the foolish person such stress required to be given. Mām ekam. But still, the foolish person misunderstood Kṛṣṇa, misinterpreted Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore Māyāvādīs. Therefore same Kṛṣṇa came as Lord Caitanya, as devotee. This time not as the Supreme Personality of Godhead but as devotee, to teach us how to approach Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore begins His teaching where Kṛṣṇa ended. When Sanātana Gosvāmī approached Him, Sanātana śikṣā . . . you have learned it from Caitanya . . . Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So He begins from that point where Kṛṣṇa ended. Where Kṛṣṇa ended? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). And Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from there. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). When Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired from Him, "What I am?" so He replied that: "You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa."

This is the beginning of bhāgavata-dharma. Unless we understand that we are eternal servants of Kṛṣṇa, there is no beginning of spiritual life. It is still material life. That conviction must be there. Go on.

Pradyumna: "They are well-wishers to everyone, and they strive to establish a competitionless society, with God in the center. The contemporary socialist conception of a competitionless society is artificial, because in the socialist state there is competition for the post of dictator. From the point of view of the Vedas, or from the point of view of common human activity, sense gratification is the basis of material life."

"There are three paths mentioned in the Vedas. One involves fruitive activities to gain promotion to better planets, another involves worshiping different demigods for promotion to the planets of the demigods, and another involves realizing the Absolute Truth in His impersonal feature and becoming one with Him. The impersonal aspect of the Absolute Truth is not the highest. Above the impersonal feature is the Paramātmā feature, and above this, there is the personal feature of the Absolute Truth, or Bhagavān."

"Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives information about the Absolute Truth in His personal feature. It is higher than impersonalist literatures and higher than the jñāna-kāṇḍa division of the Vedas. It is even higher than the karma-kāṇḍa division, and even higher than the upāsanā-kāṇḍa division, because it recommends the worship of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. In the karma-kāṇḍa, there is competition to reach heavenly planets for better sense gratification, and there is similar competition in the jñāna-kāṇḍa and the upāsanā-kāṇḍa."

"The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is superior to all of these because it aims at the Supreme Truth, which is the substance or the root of all categories. From Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam one can come to know the substance as well as the categories. The substance of the Absolute Truth, the Supreme Lord and all emanations, are relative forms of energy."

Prabhupāda: It is said, vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu śivadaṁ tāpa-trayonmūlanam. There is vastu. Vastu means summum bonum, original, and the vāstava. Just like Kṛṣṇa and His different energies. The different energies are called vāstava, "in relationship with vastu," and Kṛṣṇa is vastu. So here it is said that vedyaṁ vāstavam atra vastu. Vāstava, you can understand Kṛṣṇa in all His features. And if you understand, then śivadam, it is auspicious. Tāpa-trayonmūlanam.

As soon as you understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because it is auspicious, then all the tāpa-traya, three kinds of miserable condition of material existence pertaining to the body, mind, pertaining to the infliction offered by others, adhibhautika, adhidaivika or adhyātmika . . . so these are, three kinds of tribulations are always going on. So when we understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the vastu, the substance, and the categories, then immediately it becomes auspicious and we become free from these threefold miseries of material life.

All right. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Guest (1): . . . successions of pure devotees of Lord Kṛṣṇa all over the universe or only on the middle planet, Earth?

Prabhupāda: Where is Revatīnandana? What does he say? What is his question?

Revatīnandana: The question is that are there lines of disciplic succession on planets all over the universe, or only on these middle planets, like Earth?

Prabhupāda: All over the universe. Nārada is moving all over the universe and creating disciples.

Guest (2): Kṛṣṇa has exhibited His pastimes on every planet in the . . . (indistinct) . . . universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is lord of universe. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29): "I am the master of all universes."

Revatīnandana: But His pastimes in His original form . . . he asked if Lord Kṛṣṇa's pastimes are displayed on planets all over the universe. So far the original form of Kṛṣṇa, that is only on one planet in one day of Brahmā. Is that correct? In one universe? I think I read somewhere, that the Lord appears in His original form only once during the day of Brahmā in each universe, and that was on this planet just five thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is so purified. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam (Caitanya-manjusa). As Kṛṣṇa is worshipable, similarly, that Vṛndāvana is also. It is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. You have been in Vṛndāvana?

Revatīnandana: No. Calcutta, Bombay. Vṛndāvana always remains like that, even there is . . . on the surface people are doing nonsense there? Just like . . .

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana cannot be polluted. Just like within the heart of a hog there is Kṛṣṇa. It does not mean Kṛṣṇa's staying in polluted place. The sunshine may be in the filthy place, but sun is not polluted. But the filthy place is purified.

Guest (3): (indistinct) . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda. The human society is degrading so fast. You can notice it the last twenty years. Is it . . . is it the age of Kali, or is it the . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to age of Kali. Yes. Due to the age of Kali, it is degrading. So only we can save by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. If not all, some of them can be saved.

Guest (3): It can be changed, the age of Kali, by presence of the devotees of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? It will change in the Satya-yuga. Just like our body is changed, season is changed, similarly, this will also change.

Revatīnandana: There'll be temporary changes due to Lord Caitanya's appearance. Right? Sometimes this question comes up, with the devotees especially, that it says the devotee makes advancement when the spiritual master is pleased. Right?

So sometimes the spiritual master is far, far away. He may be in Los Angeles. Somebody is coming to Hamburg temple. He thinks, "How will the spiritual master be pleased?"

Prabhupāda: Just follow his order. Spiritual master is along with you by his words. Just like my spiritual master is not physically present, but I am associating with him by his words.

Revatīnandana: And Kṛṣṇa knows that; therefore we make advancement. He is sitting in our heart. He knows what we're doing. So He sees, "He's serving My pure devotee," immediately there is advancement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Spiritual master . . . Kṛṣṇa is not limited. It is not material. You can associate with Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master in any circumstance, provided you want to. Just like we can associate with Kṛṣṇa immediately if we take Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

He is not different from Bhagavad-gītā. Nāma-rūpe kali-kāle kṛṣṇa-avatāra (CC Adi 17.22). Kṛṣṇa is incarnated in His name in this age. You associate with Kṛṣṇa's name, immediately associate with Kṛṣṇa.

Dhanañjaya: And his devotees.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dhanañjaya: And his devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Guest (1): I'd like to ask: Does Kṛṣṇa desire we get a spiritual name?

Revatīnandana: The question is he's asking, "Is it Kṛṣṇa's desire that we get a spiritual name from you?" . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: If the spiritual master gives it, then it is Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Guest (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You can answer his question.

Revatīnandana: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda explained to me one time that every devotee has got his unique relation with Kṛṣṇa already fixed up. It's already fixed. The relationship is there. Alright . . . (indistinct) . . . that relationship may be with Kṛṣṇa in His original form; sometimes it may be with a different form of the different Vaikuṇṭha planets.

So it's only that we're devotees of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. Therefore also our names all have to do with Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, and they are names of Kṛṣṇa. So we call Vidhānacandra dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Dāsa is always there.

Revatīnandana: But by saying Vidhānacandra dāsa means I am also saying the name of Kṛṣṇa. So our names serve this purpose, always reminding us of Kṛṣṇa. But our ultimate position, our destination, it may be anywhere in the spiritual kingdom with some form of Kṛṣṇa. It's not necessarily identical with the name.

Prabhupāda: No, he is not identical. But the name is identical. But we are dāsa.

Revatīnandana: That's right. Just like my name is Revatīnandana dāsa. So that is a name of Balarāma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Revatīnandana is identical with Kṛṣṇa. We are Revatīnandana dāsa.

Revatīnandana: Oh, yes. That is clear. His question is, "Does that mean that when I'm in the spiritual sky I'm going to be a servant of Balarāma directly?"

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.

Revatīnandana: But once you told me that . . . I asked you if we were all devotees of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. You said: "Well, we might also be devotees of Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, or Sītā-Rāma . . ."

Prabhupāda: None of them are different from Kṛṣṇa. Revatīnandana is also Kṛṣṇa.

Revatīnandana: Yes. But does that mean that definitely my spirit soul, if I do become Kṛṣṇa conscious, it will go to Kṛṣṇaloka and be associated with Balarāma?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Revatīnandana: It won't be to some Vaikuṇṭha planet? It wouldn't be to some Vaikuṇṭha planet?

Prabhupāda: Balarāma's expansion is Vaikuṇṭha planet.

Guest (1): Yes.

Revatīnandana: So Their expansions also may be.

Sucandra: What does the name Vaiṣṇavī mean?

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇavī?

Sucandra: Yes. You gave my daughter the name Vaiṣṇavī.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hamsadutta: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Associated with Vaiṣṇava."

Sucandra: I saw in Kṛṣṇa Book Two you explained that Vaiṣṇavī is another name of Yogamāyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not like? (laughter) Yes. So let your daughter become a Durgā. Why you are afraid of? So now no more talking. (end)