770225 - Conversation C - Mayapur

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

770225ED-MAYAPUR - February 25, 1977 - 40:33 Minutes

Bali-mardana: Six rupees! (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Six rupees.

Bali-mardana: For a mṛdaṅga. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: And a small mṛdaṅga I gave to my youngest son—three rupees. (laughter) So it is long . . . not long ago, say about forty years ago. So it was, smaller, three rupees, and bigger, ten to twelve rupees, like that. So what about your purchasing house?

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes. You are purchasing. I am only the agent. Here is the . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bali-mardana: From outside it looks very good. From the inside, it needs a lot of work. That is . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: It is . . . and the . . . three minutes from the center of the city, and right across the street . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . earning and cow protection. You must do it. The other day I was explaining that not from economic point of view. Even the cows do not supply milk, still, they should be protected.

Bali-mardana: Hmm. Just to protect them.

Prabhupāda: Because that stool and urine is also useful. Cow is so important. They'll eat and they'll pass stool and urine. That is also important. If they supply milk, it is well, very good. Otherwise the stool and urine is also important. From that point of view we should give protection. So they are doing this cow slaughter business. (aside) Hare Krsna. Therefore they are suffering so much. So Kṛṣṇa has given you very nice occupation, translation work, and you are earning your livelihood independently. So do it very nicely. And if there is strain to work, then don't work. We shall pay you for the rent, etcetera. It doesn't matter. But you must maintain your status of translating work. That is very good. If you can work, you can work. Otherwise, don't work.

Bali-mardana: Just like we were paying Hayagrīva something just to maintain to edit, so he could edit. And if he wants to just translate, then we can give him something.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hayagrīva wife has come? No.

Rāmeśvara: No, she has left.

Prabhupāda: Then what is his maintaining? (laughter)

Rāmeśvara: That is . . . he is deviating a little.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: He's enjoying a little bit the senses.

Prabhupāda: So that is not very good idea.

Rāmeśvara: He's got one son. He has his boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rāmeśvara: He has got the older boy. His wife has got the younger boy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was in New Vrindaban. That boy was staying with Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja.

Trivikrama: Sāmba.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sāmba.

Rāmeśvara: He comes to the temple once or twice a month.

Prabhupāda: What you have to pay?

Rāmeśvara: Five hundred dollars a month. Pays for rent and gas and food.

Prabhupāda: He pays from that five hundred. Hmm. But he is very slow nowadays in editing.

Rāmeśvara: He finished editing the Kapila book, and he finished the first volume of the philosophy book since he last saw you.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Do whatever you think is good.

Rāmeśvara: Well, after we finish the second volume of the philosophy book, there will not be any more work for him.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Rāmeśvara: Jayādvaita is editing the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So after that, he'll have to get some other occupation.

Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda, there is a house on the property just for you. There is a house that is fixed up for you on the property.

Prabhupāda: Why this light does not work?

Hari-śauri: Bulb's blown.

Prabhupāda: Change it.

Bali-mardana: So when you come there, the house is waiting. It is very peaceful place for translation, and there's no winter. There is no winter. Seventy-five degrees, wintertime.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bali-mardana: Very nice.

Prabhupāda: And the summer?

Bali-mardana: Summertime, eighty-five. A little hotter.

Prabhupāda: Not . . .

Bali-mardana: But it rains. Summertime is rainy season, two or three months rainy season, so it is also . . .

Prabhupāda: Near the sea?

Bali-mardana: Thirteen miles from ocean.

Rāmeśvara: So that's only fifteen minutes by car.

Prabhupāda: The ocean is on the southern side? Ocean?

Bali-mardana: It is east.

Prabhupāda: East.

Bali-mardana: Eastern coast of Australia. And it is twenty-five minutes from the airport. So it is very easy to get to. It is right near all of the resorts where the Australians go for going to the beach and vacation during the winter months.

Prabhupāda: One can get good appetite?

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes. Tonight very nice fruits.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays I cannot eat.

Bali-mardana: Mango is growing on the property.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you maintain cows and get ghee.

Bali-mardana: When we were flying over Australia when you first came there, you pointed down and you said . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: "You just get some land here and . . ."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: ". . . maintain cows and all . . ."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You remember it.

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: So I was thinking that "I must fulfill this instruction."

Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam idam (Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything is complete by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Simply we mismanage. That's all. I do not know why people are engaged with politics, fighting, and so on, so on. By Kṛṣṇa's grace everything is complete. You eat sufficiently, you be strong and keep your health good and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the arrangement. These rascals, they have created civilization, simply animosity, fighting, politics. This is Kali-yuga. Kali means simply unnecessarily fights. There is no need of fighting, but they'll create a situation, fighting. That's all. This is Kali-yuga—unnecessarily. Why politics? Why so much discussion, barking in the United Nation? Kṛṣṇa has given the formula: annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). In America, Australia, Africa, they can produce so much grain that ten times of the population as it is now can be maintained. Similarly, Australia can produce ghee. So by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement everything is all right, the economic problem. Why they create this situation and occasionally fight and finish the whole . . .? Such a rubbish civilization, rākṣasa, unnecessarily increasing military power and spending all the revenues. Russia spends sixty-five percent—unnecessarily. And still starving. So this is mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina, only engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtina, and rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. He got the opportunity of this human life, and misusing it unnecessarily—narādhama. And their university education—māyayāpahṛta, useless knowledge. Useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. Actually they have no knowledge. Why? The only fault is there is no God. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). So one . . . that is the basic fault. Everyone is trying: "There is no God. Science." This is the basic principle. So the whole human society is suffering on account of these fools and rascals.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is para-upakāra, how to bring them in peaceful condition, in normal mental condition, and make this life successful by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to do it very carefully. It is para-upakāra. So always remember this fact, that they are . . . the whole world is being controlled by āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, atheist class of men, and people are suffering everywhere. But Kṛṣṇa also descends when such condition prevailing. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). So now Kṛṣṇa has descended in His name, nāma-rūpe kṛṣṇa-avatāra (CC Adi 17.22). So try to do some good to the society. You have got a great mission, and don't deviate. Try to . . . and Kṛṣṇa will give you all help. So . . . but always keep in mind that this civilization is a wrong civilization. Wrong civilization. It is not quite civil. What do you think? In Hong Kong I have seen. People are living so wretchedly.

Devotee (1): They keep iron gates in front of the doors. When you knock on the doors, and they open the doors, and they just become very afraid and they slam the door right in your face.

Prabhupāda: That is in America also.

Devotee (1): Hong Kong. But here even more so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keep the dogs.

Prabhupāda: Hong Kong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, in America.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To scare people.

Devotee (2): Attack. Attack dogs.

Prabhupāda: In Hong Kong there is no dog, only people. (laughter)

Brahmānanda: They ate all the dogs.

Trivikrama: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one boy here, Bhakta Lou, he joined with us in Taiwan. He speaks a fluent Chinese, this boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. American? He's American?

Trivikrama: Yes, he's from Indianapolis.

Prabhupāda: So he can help. He's in Hong Kong already?

Trivikrama: He was there just now, yes. (some devotees enter)

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, I have brought a gift from Hong Kong for you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's brought you some gift from Hong Kong.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: I think all the Australian devotees brought some ghee for you. (background discussion among devotees about gifts brought)

Bali-mardana: Australia, all the devotees have brought you ghee. They are engaged in distributing your books all day long.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bali-mardana: And this is powdered milk. Full-cream powdered milk.

Devotee (1): And honey with the hive in it. Honeycomb.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has given so much nice thing in Australia, and they are doing killing business? Just see how much fallen.

Bhāgavata: The hive of the bee is still inside. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: They can eat so many nice things.

Trivikrama: Now you must get appetite, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. They have got so nice thing to eat, but they are making business by killing. How much insane. Killing is done by the uncivilized man when they are hungry. But when there are so many things to eat, why they should kill? And that is not for themselves. For others.

Hari-śauri: More ghee.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: More ghee.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Australia can produce huge quantity of ghee. What is the price generally?

Bali-mardana: This is $3.90 for five pounds, no, two kgs.

Brahmānanda: Two pounds.

Bali-mardana: No, no, it's four pounds six ounces. Four and a half pounds. Less than one dollar per pound, little bit less.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same as in America.

Prabhupāda: Per pound. What is the price here?

Bhāgavata: About eighteen rupees. About sixteen or eighteen rupees a kg.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same price in America also, about a dollar a pound.

Prabhupāda: No, in India?

Bhāgavata: Sixteen or eighteen rupees, one kg.

Hari-śauri: They're getting that Holland ghee for about twelve rupees a kg.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's the same price here also, about a dollar a pound.

Hari-śauri: That's not pure ghee. That's dalda.

Prabhupāda: That is not pure ghee?

Hari-śauri: No. That's dalda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pure ghee is very costly . . .

Prabhupāda: Pure ghee is not available.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not available.

Prabhupāda: So at least we can import pure ghee for our own use. If possible, we can sell also. At least for our own centers, food distribution.

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we first got to Argentina it used to be for three dollars you'd get five kilos of butter, or for a dollar you got, like, twenty-four quarts of milk.

Prabhupāda: Australia.

Bali-mardana: No, Argentina.

Prabhupāda: Argentina, oh.

Bali-mardana: There is also many cows . . . they produce many cows there.

Rāmeśvara: They have the reputation in Argentina of killing more cows than any country in the world.

Prabhupāda: No, because they do not know what they will do except killing.

Pañcadraviḍa: They have twenty million people, and they have sixty million cows. That's the estimate I heard. Three cows for every person.

Trivikrama: He has brought you one Chinese script.

Hari-śauri: What does it say?

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, this is Chinese character scroll. It says, "Books are the basis, preaching is the essence, utility is the principle and purity is the force." It was translated poorly by myself, and the characters were written by . . .

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Devotee (5): I can read, but I don't write. Ah . . . the last part, "purity," it should be . . . it's not so exact. That's my opinion.

Prabhupāda: What did he say in the trans . . .?

Devotee (5): It's "cleanliness" rather than "purity."

Bali-mardana: He has translated purity as "cleanliness." Not quite exact.

Devotee (5): But people can understand.

Cāru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? There's some devotees here from Berkeley temple, and they'd like to make a gift. These are some pictures of the temple which has just been newly redecorated.

Hari-śauri: This is outside the temple.

Cāru: That's the siṁha-dvāra.

Hari-śauri: It's all based on Jagannātha Purī.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Nice. Very nice.

Cāru: Devotee named Bhāskara made those.

Bali-mardana: This is Australian devotee, Bhāskara. (laughter) He has collected.

Prabhupāda: This is done in America? This?

Cāru: Yes. In Berkeley.

Prabhupāda: This is temple?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. (break) . . . yogaṁ dadāmi tam. Kṛṣṇa says He'll give intelligence. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). You know this verse?

Trivikrama: Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ yena mām upayānti te.

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife? She has come?

Bali-mardana: She has remained in Melbourne. She's doing Deity worship and . . .

Prabhupāda: (aside) Do it into the . . .

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, two boys are here. They are from Caracas. This one boy is Rāmānujācārya. He distributed over three thousand Bhāgavatams in the month of December. He did over a hundred books every day. (devotees exclaim)

Prabhupāda: Wonderful. Thank you very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is him, this boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good. The more you distribute books, the more you are blessed. There is no "more" or "less." Everyone is blessed. (laughter) There is no such discrimination. But still, there is some competition. (laughter) In Vṛndāvana there is no discrimination that gopīs are the highest and others . . . no. Everyone is all right. Still, from neutral point of view, the gopīs are the highest. Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . ramya kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhu-varga-vīrya kalpita, that "There is no better standard of worship what was conceived by the gopīs." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. There is no distinction between the cowherd boys and the gopīs or the trees and the flowers and the calves and cows. It is the absolute platform. But still, in the spiritual world also there is distinction between living entities. That is variety, spiritual variety, viśeṣavāda.

Hari-śauri: Here's one with good scent . . .

Prabhupāda: I have seen it.

Hari-śauri: This flower?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So where is that girl who has designed?

Cāru: They asked her to leave.

Prabhupāda: She has not come?

Hari-śauri: She was here, yes. She's gone out.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good.

Hari-śauri: That's her on the picture, here.

Prabhupāda: Very good intelligence.

Cāru: This has all the significant temples of India, and just included in there is the ISKCON temples. Right as they come in the front door is a very nice cultural exhibit.

Prabhupāda: Increase more temples. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126). As many towns, as many villages. At least as many towns, and then push through the villages. What is your news about our palace in France? I am asking you, Bhūgarbha.

Bhūgarbha: Chateau palace in France?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Is it going nice?

Bhūgarbha: It is going on. I haven't been to the palace.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhūgarbha: I go to the Paris temple.

Prabhupāda: So it is very nice temple.

Trivikrama: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you designed?

Hari-śauri: No. That's not her. It's another one. We're just getting the ghee.

Brahmānanda: She has brought some ghee.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What is this, 3.92?

Bhāgavata: Three dollars, ninety two cents, Australian money, for four pounds of ghee. Seven cans.

Prabhupāda: So Australian dollar, about ten rupees?

Bali-mardana: No, it is less. Now it's devalued.

Jayatīrtha: Same as an American dollar now.

Bali-mardana: One dollar, eight. One dollar eight, US. Eight, eight cents.

Prabhupāda: So about ten rupees, Indian ten rupees.

Bali-mardana: Although the rate in India they give less, for some reason, because it was just devalued. So it's about 8.90 for cash, about 9.70 for Australian travelers checks.

Prabhupāda: No, the Amer . . . is ten rupees. It is one kilo?

Bhāgavata: This is two kilos. Four pounds, 6.5.

Prabhupāda: So about five rupees per kilo. Very cheap.

Bhāgavata: That's forty rupees . . . no . . . kg . . .

Bali-mardana: Forty per kg.

Bhāgavata: No. It's forty rupees for two kgs.

Bali-mardana: Yes. Twenty.

Bhāgavata: Twenty rupees per kg. If you tried to buy some ghee in India now, butter ghee, you'd have to pay about twenty-five rupees.

Bali-mardana: But this . . . the export . . . the Australian ghee in Australia is cheaper. This is export quality, is much higher quality. Higher . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bali-mardana: . . . price.

Prabhupāda: Higher.

Bali-mardana: But now they are going to cut down the amount of ghee they make, because not many countries are buying ghee.

Prabhupāda: India is not buying?

Bali-mardana: Not so much.

Prabhupāda: They have learned to eat meat. (background talk between devotees) Meat-eaters, they don't like ghee. Meat-eaters, they say "kukkure ghee na hajamaya". ("A dog cannot digest ghee.") (laughter) Because they are meat-eaters.

Bhāgavata: Here's some more ghee.

Bali-mardana: These are all the book distributors. They have all come for your darśana with ghee. (laughter)

Bhāgavata: Soon I will not be able to see you.

Jayatīrtha: Also meat-eaters can't stand the smell of ghee cooking. No?

Prabhupāda: This ghee should be distributed in all our Indian centers.

Devotee (6): There is a nice picture of our Deities we have in Australia on our bus.

Bali-mardana: This is our traveling bus. They distribute prasādam all over Australia, with Gaura-Nitāi. They have cast . . .

Devotee (6): They were made in Australia.

Bali-mardana: The Deities were cast in Australia.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. The face is not very good.

Bali-mardana: Not very good.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, it is nice.

Bali-mardana: I think you saw Them when you went there. They were there last time, you went. Right?

Prabhupāda: The face is inproportionate.

Bali-mardana: Proportion is not correct.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, this is an attempt. It will improve by doing more work. Why there is no light in the veranda?

Bali-mardana: Where's Balarama? (indistinct background discussions between devotees) (break)

Satsvarūpa: . . . here. And at the end is a full report on Germany. That's the last country. (break) . . . who actually began the standing orders in India. That's what . . . they began the year after the festival last year in India, and then began Europe.

Bhūgarbha: Gargamuni Mahārāja told us that it was not possible to do standing orders in India. So we started it, and now he has taken over.

Ghanaśyāma: (laughter) (break) They want to buy the book themself. (break) . . . and sell them to individuals.

Prabhupāda: That I was proposing.

Ghanaśyāma: We have wanted to know that.

Satsvarūpa: This man, Ghanaśyāma . . .

Prabhupāda: I proposed to you?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Next program.

Satsvarūpa: Our question is: He is very expert at doing it. He thinks he can do it. But is it all right . . . there's still more universities to be done. The question is whether one man should be spared to try out this new field . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I proposed.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. I know you did, many times.

Prabhupāda: Individual standing orders. Unlimited field.

Satsvarūpa: You told the method too. You first call up . . . first send out mail to some respectable person. Then a week later call him on the phone and ask if we can visit him—has he received our mailer, and now can we visit him? Try that.

Prabhupāda: What do you think, this idea?

Tripurāri: Well, we tried it a little bit in the United States, but I think that the major difficulty was getting the people to pay. They would pay, perhaps promise to pay, but then they wouldn't follow through. We were afraid they would cancel the order.

Prabhupāda: That you have to manage, how to collect. You give him in credit, but keep men also to collect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Collection agency.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be successful. You can give it . . . Americans are expert to take in credit, but the banking arrangement is nice, that they get back. Similarly, give them credit; they will take it. And then make such machinery that it will be collected. Collected means to go and ask. Then it will be collected.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you have to do? Go and ask.

Prabhupāda: Go and ask. In India it is called takata. Takata means "send men." If somebody owes money, you go and ask him. So he'll pay something. If not all, he'll pay. In this way realize.

Devotee (7): Śrīla Prabhupāda? Currently there's only about six or eight people that are doing this type of work in Europe and then other parts of the world, excluding India. And if we were to start this program, there would be a necessity of more men that would have to be supplied . . .

Prabhupāda: As you are preaching, more men will come. Man will come; money will come. Everything will be all right. Kṛṣṇa will supply. Now, here, this Chinese Gītā, they have already sold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nearly five thousand copies sold.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said that you first of all have the stock, then sell. But you must have stock.

Bhūgarbha: But to do these standing orders from individuals . . . to do these standing orders from house to house . . . we should also continue standing orders in universities. Should that stop while . . .?

Prabhupāda: No. Side by side, you can go on. Kṛṣṇa is eternal. His business is also eternal. It will never finish.

Pañcadraviḍa: This standing orders to individuals, is that something like Life Membership program?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many educated, enlightened men. They will take.

Tripurāri: So we should pick out certain individuals, then, to approach, not just go door to door.

Prabhupāda: This is Melbourne.

Bali-mardana: Melbourne temple.

Prabhupāda: Gaura-Nitāi is wonderful, Melbourne. Eh?

Bali-mardana: Here is another picture, just of Gaura-Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: This Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, we . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You brought from India.

Hari-śauri: That's right.

Bali-mardana: You personally . . .

Hari-śauri: Bali-mardana was the one who brought them, with you.

Bali-mardana: And you personally carried the Sydney Deities also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: It is all by your grace.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Sydney Deity.

Bali-mardana: This is . . . Balarāma here is the president of Melbourne, and he is also pūjārī.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma.

Bali-mardana: Balarāma dāsa.

Prabhupāda: This is Gaura-Nitāi.

Bali-mardana: Yeah. The standard is very high, I think.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Very nice. Thank you very much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally speaking, in India people are willing to become our Life Members.

Prabhupāda: Let them become Life Members.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. What would be . . . I don't see the advantage of this program, because Life Membership, you get more money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: But they don't get the books.

Prabhupāda: So either become a Life Member or customer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's their choice.

Lokanātha: We have cut down the number of the books that we are giving to the members now and giving only five big books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. But they can't read them all.

Prabhupāda: Let them read and exchange.

Rāmeśvara: Let them read them first.

Bhāgavata: Another point is, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the membership needs to give two thousand rupees at one time. But there is a class of gentlemen who are not in that bracket of earning that they can pay two thousand rupees at one time but can afford to pay, let's say, five hundred rupees downpayment and, every month, a hundred rupees or fifty rupees. For one book, every month, fifty rupees a month they can pay without difficulty.

Prabhupāda: So make that.

Bhāgavata: There's a class of men who will do that. Every month, they will pay fifty rupees for one book.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Middle-class people.

Bhāgavata: Yes. Middle class we cannot approach for membership. They cannot afford to pay at once two thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good.

Rāmeśvara: In America and in England they are making Life Members, but very rarely does someone give the whole fee at once. They have already . . .

Prabhupāda: Doesn't matter.

Rāmeśvara: They make time payments every month to become Life Members in America and England.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is a very good.

Jayatīrtha: That way, gradually there will be a . . .

Rāmeśvara: Get more money by doing membership.

Jayatīrtha: . . . steady income. Very good.

Lokanātha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, our experience with installment members is not very good in India. It's very hard. Very rarely have they raised the installment. It's very hard.

Pañcadraviḍa: It doesn't matter, because before the program was always never give them any more books than they paid for, so you'd never lose that even if they don't continue the installments. There's still no loss.

Prabhupāda: (chucking) Yes. You are giving only five books.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes. You pay more than that . . .

Hari-śauri: Initial payment should be more than one, or how many books they get for it.

Prabhupāda: No . . . so actually, even if we give them free, there is no . . . life Membership, read it. But if you give free, they will not read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Yes. They'll take it cheaply.

Prabhupāda: At least, educated Indians can be approached.

Ghanaśyāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda, since the Life Member program is going on here and England and places like that, maybe it's better to start this individualized standing order program in places where there is not so much of a Life Member program, as we'll be in some cases asking or speaking to the same people.

Prabhupāda: Do it conscientiously, as it is suitable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can discuss this at our GBC meeting.

Prabhupāda: So, it is time now?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)