731108 - Lecture SB 02.01.05 - Delhi

Lectures by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

731108SB-DELHI - November 08, 1973 - 57:03 Minutes

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (leads chanting of verse etc.) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

tasmād bhārata sarvātmā

bhagavān īśvaro hariḥ

śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca

smartavyaś cecchatābhayam

(SB 2.1.5)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

tasmāt—for this reason; bhārata—O descendant of Bharata; sarvātmā—the Supersoul; bhagavān—the Supreme Personality of Godhead; īśvaraḥ—the controller; hariḥ—the Lord, who vanquishes all miseries; śrotavyaḥ—is to be heard; kīrtitavyaḥ—to be glorified; ca—also; smartavyaḥ—to be remembered; ca—and; icchatā—of one who desires; abhayam—freedom.

Translation: "O descendant of King Bharata, one who desires to be free from all miseries must hear, glorify and also remember the Personality of Godhead, who is the Supersoul, the controller and the savior from all miseries."

Prabhupāda:

tasmād bhārata sarvātmā

bhagavān īśvaro hariḥ

śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca

smartavyaś cecchatābhayam

(SB 2.1.5)

Icchatā abhayam. So Śukadeva Gosvāmī is giving instruction to Mahārāja Parīkṣit what is to be done at the point of death. We have already discussed this point, that we must know the responsibility of our next life. Just like a child is given education for the next life, to become youthful, to get into higher education, admission. Then a youth is given higher education for better life in future. That is natural. Everyone is expecting future prospect. Similarly we, every one of us, we are changing our body exactly the same way as the child is changing his body to boyhood, the boy is changing his body to youthhood, the youth is changing his body to old body. Similarly, after old age, there is next stage is death.

So after death, what is the proposal? That they do not know. And practically we are experiencing that although I am changing body—I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man, now I am old man—so there was past and future in every stage. Similarly, in this stage as I am remembering my past life—I can remember, you can remember—I was a child, I was a boy, I was a young man—I was doing like this. Everything I remember. Even if I forget, I had my past life, and again I expect my future life. Past, present and future. Why the future should be zero? We have experienced so long, both past, present and future. Why in this old age I shall be future-less, void, there is no life after death? That is the foolishness. That we are not preparing. Those who are not preparing, they are engaged in various topics.

śrotavyādīni rājendra

nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ

apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ

gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām

(SB 2.1.2)

They have created a life of material enjoyment, and therefore they have many things to hear, śrotavyādīni. So many newspaper, magazines, books, fictions, simply for wasting time. There is no discussion in those literatures about future life. None of these literature. Take any literature of the modern world, there is no discussion about the future life. But the future life is there. You cannot deny it. The future life is there. But there is no discussion.

Therefore these rascals have been described as apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). These rascal, they do not see what is the future. They do not believe in future. Big, big professors, big, big politicians, they do not believe even that there is life after death. And why there is no life after death? We are experiencing that life after life . . . just like this child's activities at the present moment will not be the same when she will get another body as young woman. That will be different activity. So according to our change of body we have got different engagements. A child talks all foolish things; nobody cares for it. But the same child, when he gets another body, if he talks foolish, then he will be called, "Oh, you are so fool, you are talking like this." Because the body has changed.

So body is changing, that's a fact. But apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2), one who does not know that the spirit soul is eternal and changing body, they are blind, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. They are simply engrossed in this bodily concept of life. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Compact, encaged in this body, encaged in society, encaged in nationalism, encaged in religion, encaged in ideas, philosophy. But there is no question of discussing about the soul. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam.

So for them, these foolish persons, those who are not seeing the actual position, constitutional position of the soul and the future of the soul, for them there are many topics, unlimited. Śrotavya, sahasrāni, hundreds and thousands. Nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ (SB 2.1.2). Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. This śloka we have discussed. And what is their subject matter of discussion? The subject matter is that nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ (SB 2.1.3). At night they sleep or indulge in sex life, and in daytime, divā cārthehayā rājan kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā, and the daytime is wasted, "Where is money? Where is money." And if he gets money, "How to purchase this thing for that boy? How to purchase for my wife or for my brother?" Kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā. "Purchase this. Where is milk? Where is rice? Where is . . .?" In this way we are wasting time, although this human form of life is meant for Brahman realization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. They have forgotten that. They have forgotten that.

Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is reminding that . . . and they . . . of course, at the end of life, at the time of death, one must do it. But not only at the end of life. One must practice from the beginning of life. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). This prescription given by Śukadeva Gosvāmī:

tasmād bhārata sarvātmā

bhagavān īśvaro hariḥ

śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca

smartavyaś cecchatābhayam

This is bhāgavata-dharma. This is bhāgavata-dharma: everything in relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Dharma means bhāgavata-dharma. Otherwise that is not dharma. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Dharma means to understand God, our relationship with God, and how to work in that relation. That is dharma. Sambandha, prayojana. Sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana. Caitanya Mahāprabhu prescribes this. The whole Vedic civilization is based on this, that you must know what is your relationship with God. It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian or Buddhist. A civilized man must have some religious process. That is all over the world.

Now we are giving up. We are giving up. Everyone is giving up. Therefore dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ (Hitopadeśa). Dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ . . . when we give up the religious principle . . . religious principle means to abide by the law of God. That is religion. But we do not know what is God and what is His order. We forget it. So at the present moment, dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ, it is a civilization of cats and dogs, not human being, because they have given up dharma.

But the śāstra says that this human life is meant for understanding God, nothing else. Other things are already arranged. You are harassed by the problems of eating, sleeping, mating, but there is no such question. Eating arrangement is there. Even the birds and bees, they are confident. They have no office-going, they are not lawyers, engineers, politicians, to earn their bread, but the bread is ready for them, even for the beast, birds, so they are confident. So this is not problem. Real problem is to understand God. And what will the benefit by understanding God? Then the problem of your birth, death, old age and disease will be solved. That is the real problem. We are undergoing repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. These problems can be solved simply by understanding what is God. This is the solution.

That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā: janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti . . . (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. This is the solution. Janma karma me divyam. Kṛṣṇa says, God says that, "If you try to understand Me, what is My position, why I descend, what is My activity, what is . . ." That is described here, śrotavya. You have to understand. How you will understand? By hearing. God has given you the ear. If you simply hear, if you simply hear . . .

There is no question of education. It is not that one who is not educated, he will not understand what is God. He will understand, because the ear is there. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23): Viṣṇu, of Lord, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you hear. Therefore we are opening so many branches, just to give people the chance of hearing. And as soon as you perfectly hear, the next position will be to glorify. Just like these European, American boys: First of all they heard. Now they are preaching. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Because they have perfectly heard, therefore they are very enthusiastic. They are going all over the world. They are preaching.

And so śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca. If one has actually heard, known about God, then next stage will be he will be very much enthusiastic to speak to others. That is preaching. Śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca smartavyaḥ. Smartavya means remembering. Unless you remember what is God, what is His form, what is His quality, what is His pastimes, what are His activities, what are His entourage—everything about God—if you hear . . . just like if you hear Bhagavad-gītā, you understand everything, what is God. And that is our only duty.

I have seen in this Delhi near Juma Masjid, the small Muhammadan boys, they are reading Koran. That is very good. From childhood they should learn, learn about God. And that is recommendation in Bhāgavata. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān (SB 7.6.1). Kaumāra, from the beginning of life, children should be engaged. Therefore we have opened the Gurukula, Dallas. The small children, four years, five years old, they are hearing about Kṛṣṇa, about God. They are chanting about Kṛṣṇa, they are rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārātrika. Anyone goes there . . . even the education superintendent came to visit our temple, he was astonished that, "How these children are happy. How children, they are being educated."

So this is to be introduced. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavat . . . durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. This human form of life is durlabham. Durlabham, very rare to achieve. It is not so easily obtained. We have to pass through evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, aquatics . . . jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa). We have to pass through aquatics, animals in the water, then trees, plants, then insects, birds, beasts. After all, we get this human form of life, especially civilized form of life, with some idea of religion. If we do not utilize it . . . religion means to understand God. That is religion. In religion, a godless religion, where there is no conception of God, that is not religion. That is called cheating religion: in the name of religion, but there is no conception of God. That is not religion.

Then here it is said that śrotavyaḥ bhagavān hariḥ. If you do not know who is Bhagavān, if you do not know who is Hari, if you do not know who is Īśvara, then what you will hear about Him? That is the problem. Those who are after God, they make God nirākāra, "There is no ākāra. There is no form." God is the origin of all forms, but the poor God has no form. Just see. This is the conclusion. He is the origin of all forms, yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante, from whom everything is coming out. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything . . . we have also come from God. We are also claimed as sons of God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4). There are 8,400,000 species of life, and they have got forms. They are sons of God. So where is our experience that a son who has got a form, his father is impersonal, no form? Where you have got this experience? If the son has got form and the father is formless, how it can be? What is the reason? Where is the argument?

But they are concluding like that. I am the son of my father, so my father has got a form, I have got a form, his father has got form, his father has got form. Even if we do not see the tenth generation, up to, whether it was form or formless, but it is supposed that he must have a form. So similarly, if you ultimately go to the supreme father, then how it is formless? No. Formless is not the actual realization of God. That is the beginning. That may be beginning. To realize the energy of God, that is formless. Just like the sun. The sunshine is formless, but the sun globe is not formless, or the person, the predominating deity within the sun globe, he is not formless. The sunshine is formless. So this formless realization . . . just like the sun. Sun is also light. Sun is also heat. The sunshine is also light, sunshine is also heat. But this heat and light, energy of the sun, they are not actually the sun. It is only the energy. This is described in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa, that:

eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner

jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā

parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis

sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat

(Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.22.52)

Just like a fire is there in one place, in a particular localized place, but it expands in heat and light, similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is there. He is person. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā: goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is God. Although He is everywhere present by His energy, it does not mean that He is lost, He has lost His personality. No. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). He is so perfect and complete. Just like you take the example of the sun. For millions and millions of years, unlimited temperature, light and heat is coming out, but still, it is the same. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate. Similarly, God is so perfect, so complete, that unlimited number of suns and energies . . . we are also energy. We sons of God, we are also energy. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā:

apareyam itas tu

viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām

jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho

yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat

(BG 7.5)

Prakṛtiṁ parām. This material world is aparā-prakṛti, and prakṛti, nature or energy, this is inferior energy, the matter, dull matter. But apareyam. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4), earth, water, air, fire, they are inferior energy of the Lord. But there is another, superior nature. That is described. Apareyam. These energies, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, earth, water, air, they are inferior. There is another, superior. What is that? Jīva-bhūtām, these living entities, mahā-bāho, yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat, who are controlling now.

This Delhi city is important. Why important? Because the jīva-bhūta, the living entities, they are handling this material—cement and stone and wood and so many other material things— and they are constructing buildings. And therefore the importance of this Delhi city is there. If all the people, all the living entities, leave this Delhi city, it is not even one-farthing worth. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). In Calcutta, in 1942, when there was bombing and all Calcutta was vacated, a house at that time which was rented at two hundred rupees, they were asking, "Give me twenty-five rupees," because the living entities vacated. Similarly, the importance of this material world is there because we living entities are there. And we have come here. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha (Prema-vivarta 6.2). All the living entities, they have come into this material world to enjoy material enjoyment. Therefore this material world has value. Otherwise, if all the living entities go back again, back to home, back to Godhead, this matter has no value.

So we are also prakṛti. We are also energy of God. And because we are trying to utilize the resources of matter, therefore material things have got value. Otherwise, it has no value— zero. But our business is, that is stated here, that because we are now entangled with this matter . . . the matter is not our business. Our only business is how to get out of the matter. That is our real business. If you want that business, then the prescription is here. What is that? Śrotavyaḥ kīrtitavyaś ca. Unless you hear, how you can understand your position? When you understand God, Kṛṣṇa, and you understand that you are part and parcel of God, or Kṛṣṇa, then you can understand your position: "Oh, we are part and parcel of God." Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam, full of all opulences. Just like a mad son loitering in the street, when he understands with good brain that, "My father is so rich, so powerful, and why I am loitering in the street like a madman? I have no food, no shelter. I am going from this door to door and begging," then he comes to his consciousness. That is called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. "Oh, I am . . . I am not this matter. I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God. Oh." That is consciousness.

This consciousness we are trying to arouse. This is the best welfare service to the people, to awaken his lost consciousness. He is foolishly thinking that, "I am of the material product, and I have to adjust my things in this material world." This is the foolishness. Actual intelligence is that he is Brahma-bhūta, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am part and parcel of God. God is supreme Brahman. I am, being part and parcel . . ." Just like part and parcel of the gold, gold mine, small, it may be small earring, it is also gold. Similarly, the small particle of seawater is also the same quality, salty. Similarly, we, being part and parcel of God, we have got the same qualities. Qualitatively, we are one. Why we are hankering after loving? Because there is love in Kṛṣṇa. We are worshiping here Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Originally there is love. Therefore we, being part and parcel of God, we are also trying to love. A man is trying to love another woman, woman is trying to love another man. This is natural. This is not artificial. But it is perverted in the material covering. That is the defect.

When we are free from this material covering, then we are qualitatively ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), as jolly . . . as Kṛṣṇa is dancing always . . . Kṛṣṇa you will never find . . . you have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa, He is fighting with the Kāliya serpent. He is dancing. He is not afraid of the serpent. He is dancing. As He is dancing with the gopīs in rāsa-līlā, similarly, He is dancing with the snake. Because He is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. He is ānandamaya, always jolly. Always. You will see Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa . . . just like in Kurukṣetra the fighting is going on. Kṛṣṇa is jolly. Arjuna is morose because he is living entity, but He is not morose; He is jolly. That is the nature of God. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt. This is the sūtra, in the Brahma-sūtra that, "God is ānandamaya, always jolly, always cheerful." So you can become also cheerful when you go back to home, back to Godhead. That is our problem.

Therefore how we can go there? The first thing is we must hear. Śrotavyaḥ. Just try to hear what is God, what is His kingdom, how He acts, how He is cheerful. These things are to be heard. Śravaṇam. Then as soon as you are convinced, "Oh, God is so nice," then you will be eager to demonstrate or to broadcast this news to the whole world. This is kīrtanam. This is kīrtanam.

śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ

smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam

arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ

sakhyam ātma-nivedanam

(SB 7.5.23)

This is life. This is life. Otherwise, talking nonsense, taking a newspaper in the morning and, "This party has done like this, this man has declared war, that man has defeated this," these are simply waste of time. Simply waste of time. If we waste our time, then we are not preparing for the next life.

The actually human form of life is meant for preparing for the next body. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). If we actually serious about our life, to get free from the all the problems of life, then this is the only medicine. What is that? Tasmād bhārata sarvātmā bhagavān īśvaro hariḥ, śrotavyaḥ (SB 2.1.5). One has to hear. It is not very difficult. But people have become so rascal, so foolish, they will not hear. They will not hear. We are requesting. We have not manufactured anything. It is all authorized, authorized books, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, Vedic literature. We are simply inviting them. Now where is there, I mean to say, sectarianism? If we say to you, either you are Hindu or Muslim or Christian, if we say that, "Please hear about God," where is sectarianism? Where is sectarianism, "Your life is meant for . . ." if we preach that "Your life is meant for hearing"?

Now, we are presenting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you don't accept Supreme Personality of God Kṛṣṇa, then what is your Supreme Personality of Godhead you present. Then you compare who is actually Supreme Personality of Godhead. What is the meaning of Supreme Personality of Godhead? Why you are taking? Why you are taking sectarian? Kṛṣṇa claims, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). All forms of life. Not only human forms of life, even animal forms of life, vegetable forms of life, aquatics. They are all . . . actually that is the fact. We are not this form. We are not this body. But according to our mentality, by nature's law we are getting a particular type of body.

Actually, I am spirit soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Just like I am developing my ideas, youthful ideas, I am getting youthful body. I am developing childish ideas, getting childhood body. So as you develop, Kṛṣṇa, or God, has given you full freedom. You have come to this material world to enjoy. Now you make your plan of your enjoyment. God will give you a particular type of body and you enjoy. Just like the hog, he is enjoying. He is enjoying. What he is enjoying? Enjoying stool. It is very good for him enjoyment. But it is not for enjoyment for you. You'll . . . that, "Oh, what a nasty animal it is. It is eating stool." But he is enjoying.

So this is the business of God, thankless task. Everyone wants to enjoy life in a different way, and he has to find out a particular type of body. In the human form of body you cannot eat stool. Your mouth, your hands, your legs are differently made. So for eating stool, you must have a particular type of body, mouth, taste, tongue, everything different. Then you will enjoy stool. A tiger, his body is different because he wants to enjoy fresh blood from another animal. So he has got a different type of body. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, nānā joni sadā phire kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare, kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare (Prema-bhakti-candrikā). We get different types of body and we eat different types of all nasty things. Nasty things. Because we have got a particular type of body. But actual human body is that Kṛṣṇa conscious body. As Kṛṣṇa says:

patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ

yo me bhaktyā prayacchati

tad ahaṁ bhakty-upahṛtam

aśnāmi . . .

(BG 9.26)

Kṛṣṇa says: "Give me patraṁ puṣpam, vegetables, flowers, grains, milk." So you can prepare hundreds and thousands of preparation from these article, and you take the remnants of foodstuffs of Kṛṣṇa, that is human life—not to eat kadarya, kadarya, nasty things. That is not human life. So if you continue to eat all the kadaryas, then you get ultimately the body of a hog, no discrimination even for stool. That is the laws of nature.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni

guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ

ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā

kartāham iti manyate

(BG 3.27)

Prakṛti, nature, will give you chance, "All right, you want this?" Mind. You are creating . . . mind is the creating force. So if you create a certain type of body, next life you get a body. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6).

So similarly, if we are going to create another body by thinking and feeling and willing in this life, why not get a body like Kṛṣṇa? That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Think of Kṛṣṇa. Think of Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Kṛṣṇa wants that you come back home, but you have to get the body. How you can get the body? Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. You simply think of Kṛṣṇa. Don't think of the hog or hoglike animals. You think of Kṛṣṇa. You have to think something. Why not think Kṛṣṇa, so nice figure, no . . . so attractive figure? So śrotavyaḥ, and thinking. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. The . . . hear also. Unless you hear about Kṛṣṇa, how you can become . . .? How your mind can be absorbed if you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa?

So Kṛṣṇa is describing Himself, kṛṣṇa-kathā. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is therefore kṛṣṇa-kathā. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-kathā, kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. This is the mission. What Kṛṣṇa says, you just preach, you become spiritual master. That is not very difficult. Everyone can become spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa's speaking is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. You simply repeat what Kṛṣṇa says, you become spiritual master. It is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām; you simply say that, "You become devotee of Kṛṣṇa." Where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhaktaḥ; you say: "You become Kṛṣṇa's bhakta." Actually we are doing that. We are not doing any miraculous thing. People say that "Swāmījī, you have done miracles." But what miracles I have done? I am simply repeating Kṛṣṇa's words. That's all. So everyone can do that. Everyone can take this matter very seriously—his life will be successful; he will make others successful. It is so nice thing.

Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, tasmād sarvātmā bhagavān. You must speak about Bhagavān. You must know what is Bhagavān, that Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. There are many Bhagavāns. That's all right. Or incarnation of Bhagavān. But Bhāgavata says, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Particularly says that, "All the incarnations are described," but at the end, the Bhāgavata points out that, '"There are so many Bhagavāns . . ." That's all right. Not so many; I mean not everyone. Not pantheism, not like that. Bhagavān has got innumerable incarnations. They have been described, but particularly pointing out that, "Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. And Kṛṣṇa also says in Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "My dear Dhanañjaya, I am the Supreme. There is nobody superior to Me." Aham ādir hi devānām (BG 10.2): "I am the origin of all the devas." Devas means principle devas, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So Kṛṣṇa is the origin of Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. And what to speak of others. Aham ādir hi devānām. And so many things there are.

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo

mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate

iti matvā bhajante māṁ

budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ

(BG 10.8)

One who understands that, "Here is Supreme Personality of Godhead," he is budha, he is in knowledge. Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.

So that bhāva required. Unless we understand what is God, what is His nature, how He acts, what is our duty, what is our relationship, then we are nothing better than cats and dogs, simply . . . śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi (SB 2.1.2), simply talking, talking, talking, and reading and reading, but no understanding of God. This is useless life, cats' and dogs' life. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is saving people from becoming cats and dogs just to make them human being.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(break)

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). But people did not take it very seriously. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as a devotee in the form of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to teach people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the . . . Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya is also Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person, He demanded that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, but people did not take it very seriously. Therefore He again came, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Just like some servant is massaging your legs, but you do not like it. You sometimes take his leg, "You do like this, do like this, do like this." So that master has not become servant, but he's teaching how to massage. Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa Himself, but He is teaching rascals like us how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the difference.

British man: No. What I'm trying to ask is that if the Vedic scriptures were written about five thousand years ago . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

British man: . . . then how is it just only five hundred years ago somebody came to impart what was written five thousand years ago?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). As soon as it becomes too much deteriorated, then Kṛṣṇa comes Himself or sends His representative to revive Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It may be five thousand years or five lakhs of years or five days. That doesn't matter. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya. Whenever there is discrepancy. It doesn't matter. It does not depend on the historical dates. When there is necessity. When there is necessity. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. At that time. So although Kṛṣṇa consciousness was introduced five thousand years ago by Kṛṣṇa Himself, but it deteriorated so much . . .

(break) Give up your material activities and engage yourself in spiritual activities. That is mukti. Just like a man in diseased condition, he is acting. He is also acting. He is also passing stool, passing urine, eating, eating something, lying down, talking. He has got activities. But that activities and when he is free from the disease, that activity is different. Similarly, if you change your activity, you can become mukta even in this life. That is mukti, real mukti. Muktir hitvānyathā-rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). If you give up your diseased conditional activities . . . just like these boys who are in Kṛṣṇa . . . they are muktas, because they are not interested with any material activities. They are not interested to read in the morning any newspaper. No. They cannot waste their time in that way or take part in politics. No. They are simply interested in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading these books. Therefore they are muktas. They are all liberated. Because hitvānyathā-rūpam. Other people, they are reading newspaper, doing all nonsense; but they are not interested. The anyathā-rūpam. That is material business. Svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Svarūpa means jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108-109). Every living entity is eternally kṛṣṇa-dāsa. So if you give up these material activities and engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service, you are mukta. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

It is confirmed. So anyone who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is mukta. For them there is no demand for mukti. Muktir mukulitāñjali sevate 'smān. Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura: "The mukti is standing before me with folded hands, 'What can I do for you?' " Because he is bhakta. So for a bhakta there is no such demand, mukti. Means they are muktas already. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mama janmani janmanīśvare bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī (CC Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Because He's mukta. There may be again birth, but a devotee takes birth for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for any other business. Therefore he is mukta. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. Īhā yasya harer dāsye (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.187).

So mukti is not very difficult thing. If you cent percent engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness business, you are mukta. That is mukti. That is the verdict of the śāstra. Mukti does not mean that I have got now one head, I will get four heads. No. This one head is sufficient, but it must be engaged for Kṛṣṇa. That is it.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Hundred percent.

Prabhupāda: Hundred percent, yes. That's all. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). This is mukti. Any other question.

Guest (2): Yes. I have very many questions to ask.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But you cannot assimilate all the answers in one day. That is not possible. You see? You have many questions, but ask in many days, not in one day. Otherwise you will get indigestion. (laughter) You will not be able to . . . simply you go on questioning, questioning, and don't take anything, that is no use. Take . . . make one question. Try to understand. Adopt it in life. Then make another question. Don't take all the answers at a time and become suffering in dysentery. No. (laughter) Don't do that. That's all right. You cannot take one month's food in one hour. Can you take? So that's all right. Gradually. Your questions are nice, but don't take the answers all in a day. That will be not good. If you understand very easily, then you will forget very easily.

Guest (2): That is natural. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Natural, you see. If you understand little with difficulty, then you will forget also with difficulty. This is the way. So any other question? After this question-answer?

(kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: (prema-dhvanī)

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda . . . (obeisances) (end)