740117 - Lecture SB 01.16.21 - Honolulu

Lectures by Date, 1974

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

740117SB-HONOLULU - January 17, 1974 - 49:57 Minutes

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse) (devotees repeat)

arakṣyamāṇāḥ striya urvi bālān

śocasy atho puruṣādair ivārtān

vācaṁ devīṁ brahma-kule kukarmaṇy

abrahmaṇye rāja-kule kulāgryān

(SB 1.16.21)

(break) (leads synonyms)

Prabhupāda: (interrupts the synonyms) Hmm? Puruṣādaiḥ—by men? Puruṣādaiḥ, puruṣādaiḥ means rākṣasa, the cannibals. So there has been . . . "Cannibals" it should be. You can have a notebook. Whenever there is some discrepancy, you note in the next. Puruṣādaiḥ means "by the cannibals, rākṣasas."

Pradyumna: (synonyms continue) (break)

Translation: "Are you feeling compunction for the unhappy women and children who are left forlorn by unscrupulous persons? Or are you unhappy because the goddess of learning is being handled by brāhmaṇas addicted to acts against the principles of religion? Or are you sorry to see that the brāhmaṇas have taken shelter of administrative families that do not respect brahminical culture?"

Prabhupāda: In the last verse, the another question was vṛṣalaiḥ. Vṛṣalair bhokṣyamāṇam. All these questions are being asked by Dharmarāja to the unprotected cows. Cow is the representative of earth, so if there was one question, ātmānaṁ vā vṛṣalair bhokṣyamāṇam (SB 1.16.20). The cow is being questioned, "Whether you are afraid of the meat-eaters who want to eat you?" Vṛṣalaiḥ. What is the meaning of vṛṣalaiḥ? Hmm? Unlawful meat-eaters. Unlawful meat-eaters. Just like at the modern age everyone is unlawful meat-eaters. There is a certain class of men always who are meat-eaters. Not the higher class. The society is divided into four classes: the first class, namely the brahminical class; second class, the kṣatriya, less important; the third class, the mercantile, less important; and the fourth class, less important. And below the fourth class, they are not counted among human beings. This is the Vedic division. So, the first class means the brahmins; kṣatriyas, second class; and third class, vaiśyas. They did not eat meat. Among the fourth-class, fifth-class men, they used to eat meat. Fifth class means caṇḍāla, pañcama, fifth class. Caṇḍāla, they eat pigs and dogs—dog-eaters, pig-eaters. Just like even at the present moment, there are different classes of men, and pig-eaters or dog-eaters, at least dog-eaters, that is not very much common. But more or less, everyone is meat-eater. And when they begin to eat meat, they do not care whether it is pig's flesh or dog's flesh or cow's flesh.

So generally, the higher class, Āryans, they did not eat meat; and the lower class, those who were eating meat, they were also checked by regulation. So one who was eating meat without any check, they are mentioned here as unlawful meat-eaters. What is that, unlawful meat-eaters? Yes.

Pradyumna: Vṛṣalaiḥ.

Prabhupāda: Vṛṣalaiḥ. Vṛṣalaiḥ, unlawful meat-eaters. Then what kind of lawful meat-eaters, the question will be. The lawful meat-eaters mean as enjoined by the śāstra, because meat eating is not required, not at all required. In the śāstra it is said:

loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā

nityā hi jantor na hi tatra codanā

(SB 11.5.11)

In the śāstras, there is recommendation that, "You can eat meat under certain, certain condition. You can drink under certain conditions. You can marry, sex life, under certain condition." Loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā. Vyavāya means sex; and āmiṣa means meat-eating; and madya-sevā, drinking, intoxication.

So śāstra says that, "Everyone, every living entity, has got a general tendency for these things: sex life, meat-eating and drinking." Then where is the need of śāstric injunction? That śāstric injunction is there not to encourage them, but to restrict them. In the human life, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā (Manu Smṛti 5.56). You have got a tendency for sex life, take for example. This is your tendency. But if you can check it, that is your success. Not that because you have got tendency, you have to increase it. That is not human civilization. Human civilization means we have got so many animal propensities, and if we can control them, that is advancement of human civilization. Just try to understand. Not that, "Because I have got this tendency, let me increase it without any restriction." That is not human civilization. Human civilization . . . that is the distinction between animal and human being. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa jñānena (SB 6.1.13).

Therefore first beginning of human life . . . (child making noise) (aside) That child . . . the first beginning of human life is brahmacārī. Brahmacārī. Brahmacārī means to learn how to restrict himself from sense gratification. That is brahmacārī life—the student, student life. Nowadays, in every college, university, the students are allowed to mix, intermingle, both sex. What is called? Co-education?

Sudāmā: Co-ed. Yes.

Prabhupāda: But this is not the process of human civilization. Therefore, at the present moment, the population is so much degraded. There is no restriction. That is the difference between animal life and human life. Human life is meant for restriction. The more you restrict your material sense gratification, the more you are advanced. This is the standard. Not that, "Because I have got the tendency to act like this, let me do it unrestrictedly." That is not human civilization; that is cats' and dogs' civilization. Human civilization means tapasya, austerity. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). Sattva. We have to purify our existence. That is the aim of human life. We have to purify our existence.

What is the impurification of existence? The impurification of existence is this birth, death, old age and disease. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). Everyone is inclined to live, but nature will not allow you to live. Nobody likes to die, but nature will force you to become dead. Nobody wants to become old man, but nature will force you to become old man. Janma . . . and nobody wants to suffer from diseases, but nature will force you to suffer from diseases. These are the problems. But the rascal civilization, they do not know what is the real problem. They're dealing with petrol problem. Just see. Petrol problem, you have created another problem. Already there is problem. You have created, by so-called civilization, petrol problem. Before these motorcars, the people were living very happily. They were transporting. But there was no such civilization that for your earning livelihood you have to go hundred miles away from your home to work there. Therefore you require vehicle. Then you require petrol. Then you require so many nice road. So many things will be. But formerly, it was village. They will take it, "This is primitive." But remaining primitive, you are more happy than becoming so-called civilized, creating so many problems. You have already problems, but people are so rascal, so blind, they do not see to the real problem. They artificially create problem and try to solve it. Instead of touching the real problem, that is set aside.

The Bhagavad-gītā says that problem . . . one should be very vigilant to the problems. And what is that problem? He says, Kṛṣṇa says:

janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-

duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam

(BG 13.9)

They do not know what is the real problem. Real problem is repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is real problem. Whole Vedic civilization is meant for stopping these problems, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. The whole Bhagavad-gītā is taught . . . you are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You just try to understand what is the real problem. The real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that:

janma karma me divyaṁ

yo jānāti tattvataḥ

tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma

naiti mām eti kaunteya

(BG 4.9)

This is solution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyam: "This is My appearance on this material world, how God appears." Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Nobody takes birth. Even we do not take birth; we simply change body. So what to speak of God? God and we, we are qualitatively one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). But He is the chief living entity. Just like you have got your chief American, means the president of your country, similarly, everywhere must be there one chief man. Just like in the Society, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness Society, you accept me as the chief. So you have to accept one chief. Either you are a political party or social party or religious party or Communist party . . . just like Communist party, they have got their chief men, Lenin, Stalin.

This question I asked . . . (aside) Don't be sleeping. Professor Kotovsky, I asked him that, "Where is the difference of philosophy between your Communist philosophy and our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy? You have to accept one chief man, that Lenin or Stalin, and we have also selected one chief man, or God, Kṛṣṇa. So you are following the dictates of Lenin or Stalin or Molotov or this or that; we are following the philosophy or the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So on principle, where is the difference? There is no difference." So the professor could not answer that. You cannot conduct your daily affairs without being dictated by somebody else. That is to be accepted.

So that is the law of nature. So nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Then why don't you accept the supreme authority? This subordinate authority . . . we have to accept somebody as our leader. It is not possible that we can live without leadership. That is not possible. Is there any party, is there any school, or is there any institution that they're conducting without any chief leader or director? Can you show me any instance throughout the whole world? Is there any instance? No. Just like from our camp somebody has left, but he has accepted Gaurasundara or Siddha . . .

Devotee: Siddha-svarūpa.

Prabhupāda: . . . Siddha-svarūpa Mahārāja as chief. The principle is there, that you have to accept one chief. But intelligent is that which . . . what kind of leadership we shall accept. That is knowledge. We have to accept the servitorship or underhand, to become underhand of some person. So the intelligence is that, "Whom we have to accept?" That, there lies intelligence: "What kind of leader we shall accept?"

So our principle is that Kṛṣṇa should be accepted as the leader, because Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Kṛṣṇa is the supreme leader. Eko bahū . . . nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Leader means he must . . . just like father. Father is the leader of the family. And why father is the leader? Because he earns, he maintains the children, wife, servant and establishment; therefore naturally, he's accepted the leader of the family. Similarly, you accept the President Nixon as the leader of your country because in dangerous time he gives direction, in peace time he gives direction. He's always busy how to make you happy, how to make without any cares, anxiety. This is duty of the President. Otherwise, why you select one President? Any man can live without any President, but no, it is required.

So similarly, the Veda says, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. There are two sets of living entities. One . . . both of them are nitya. Nitya means eternal. And cetana means living entity. So nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. This is the description of God, that God is also a living entity like you and me. He's also living entity. Just like you see Kṛṣṇa. What is the difference between Kṛṣṇa? He has got two hands, you have got two hands. He has got one head; you have got one head. You have got . . . he has got two legs, you have got two legs. You can also keep some cows and play with them; Kṛṣṇa also. But the difference is there. What is that difference? Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one Kṛṣṇa, although He's similar in so many ways with you, similarity, but one difference is there—He is maintaining every one of us, and we are being maintained. He's the leader. If Kṛṣṇa does not supply you foodstuff, you cannot have any foodstuff. If Kṛṣṇa does not supply you petrol, then you cannot drive your car. So eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti. Whatever necessities of life we have got—we require so many things—that is supplied by eka, that one living entity. That is the difference. We cannot maintain even a small family, our capacity is so limited. At the present moment especially, in this age, a man does not like to marry because he's unable to maintain even a family, wife and children. He cannot maintain them, even a family consisting of four or five living entities.

But God is the whole family. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti. He's supplying food to the elephants. We are . . . we are so much advanced in civilization that because we cannot take care of a child, therefore we are killing child even within the womb of mother, abortion. We are so unfit. But God, you see, He's feeding millions of elephants in the Africa. Not only elephants, there are so many. Out of 8,400,000 species of life, there are 8,000,000 species of life nonhuman being, the majority—the birds, beasts, reptiles, trees, so many other living entities. But they have no business. They have no occupation, profession, to maintain themselves. So who is maintaining them? Who is there? Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Even if within your room there is a little hole, sometimes you'll find thousands of ants coming out. Have you got this experience? And who is feeding them? Who is supplying them food? They are living within that hole, millions, and hundreds and thousands of ants, but they're also eating, they're also sleeping, they have got their wife, they have got their children. But who is supplying food? So in this way, if you analyze that everything is being maintained by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is real understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how Kṛṣṇa is great, or God is great. So that is a real civilization of life, to understand, to appreciate, to appreciate the greatness of God. That is real civilization. So, there is a process how to appreciate, how to become qualified to appreciate, and that system is called varṇāśrama-dharma—to divide the whole human society into four classes of men: the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra. And those who are not regulated, they are pañcamas, below the śūdras.

So the . . . our subject matter was unlawful meat-eaters. So even the śūdras, who are meat-eaters, they're lawful meat-eaters. What is that lawful meat-eating? Lawful meat-eating is . . . in any religion, formerly, even the Muhammadans or Hindus or the Jews, they used to kill one animal as sacrifice. They used to kill. Not in the slaughterhouse. Even up to date, those who are strictly religious followers . . . suppose the Muhammadans. There in the Koran, the injunction is that, "You should sacrifice one animal in the mosque." The Jews also, they sacrifice animal in the synagogue. I have read one book, Lord Jesus Christ, when he was a young boy he was very much shocked when he saw that animal-killing is going on in the synagogue. Therefore he differentiated from the Jews and he started his own religion, Christian religion. Is it not a fact? Am I right? Why . . . he was also a Jew. Why he deviated? Why he deviated from the Jews? Because when he saw in his young age that animals are being killed in the synagogue, he differed, "No, no, this is horrible. This should be stopped." Therefore his first commandment is, "Thou shall not kill." Am I wrong or right?

Devotee: Right.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That was his first impression, that people should stop killing. So who is Christian? Everyone is violating this first commandment, what to speak of other commandments. Everyone. So it is very difficult to find a real Christian. But if you violate the commandments of Christ, then what kind of Christian you are? This is our question. Who will answer this?

So this is the problem. Animal killing is not within the category of human civilization. When a man becomes civilized, he knows how to produce food. He can till the ground. He can produce food grains. He can produce fruits and flowers and so many things. Even in the animal kingdom there are different kinds of animals, they do not touch meat-eating even. They do not touch. Every . . . every animal has to live by destroying or killing another animal. That is nature's law. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam (SB 1.13.47). Either you eat vegetable or you eat meat, it doesn't matter. Vegetable has also got life. But there is allotment. Just like the cows or other animals, they do not eat meat, they live on grass. Grass has got life, but because they eat grass life, therefore they will eat meat? No. The allotment. Similarly, human being should be also . . . there is allotment. For human being, God has given us the food grains, the fruits and . . . patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find. Kṛṣṇa is saying that, "Anyone who is supplying Me this patraṁ puṣpam . . ." Patram means leaves, vegetables, and puṣpam means flowers. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam, fruits. Toyam, and milk. So why? He is speaking in the human society. He's not speaking in the animal society. Therefore it is already described what kind of foodstuff we shall take. So patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalam. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We offer to Kṛṣṇa the patraṁ puṣpam—flower, vegetables, grains, milk product—and we take prasādam. This is our movement.

So here it is said that puruṣādair ivārtān. So not only eating meat, but there are cannibals also. I've heard that in Africa still, there are cannibals. Not only Africa, in other parts of the world, they also sacrifice a human being. I think in America also, formerly, the Red Indians used to kill a human being? Huh?

Devotees: In Mexico.

Prabhupāda: Mexico. So anyway . . . so they are called cannibals, and in Sanskrit it is called puruṣādaiḥ, puruṣādaiḥ. Puruṣādaiḥ means the cannibals and the man-eaters. Still there are. So here it is said, arakṣyamāṇāḥ striya urvi bālān śocasy atho puruṣādair ivārtān. So puruṣādaiḥ means . . . "Unscrupulous men" also can be drawn. But puruṣādaiḥ means the man-eaters. So suppose in this Hawaii city, in Honolulu city, you understand that some cannibals have come; they are taking away human being for eating. Then what is your concern immediately? Immediately concern will be, if you are at all actually responsible, then the immediate concern will be striya urvi bālān: to give protection to the weaker section of the population, namely the women and the children. So in other words, it is our first duty to give protection to the women, the weaker section, the woman and children.

So Dharmarāja is asking, "Mother Earth, whether you are concerned because you are not at the present moment very much strong or very much able to give protection to the women and the children?" This is Vedic civilization. You give protection to the women, to the children, to the brahmin, to the cow and to the old men. First duty. First duty is to give protection to the old men, women, children, cow and brahmin. That is questioned in the next part, brahma-kule kukarma, kukarmaṇy abrahmaṇye rāja-kule. Brahma-kule. The brahmins should be protected, but if there are, even in the brahmin family, who are addicted to these sinful activities, that is also becomes a concern. Similarly, if the royal family, or the ruling class of men, they do not respect the brahminical culture, that is also a subject matter of concern.

So in the Vedic civilization there was no such problem as petrol problem and food problem or . . . no. The problem was whether the civilization was going nicely, whether the human civilization is making progress toward the ultimate goal of life, not to bother with the temporary problems. Temporary problems has been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya.

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya

śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino anityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

(BG 2.14)

Anything except this problem . . . there are problems always. This is a world of problems. So . . . just like this summer season, that is also problem. The winter season, that is also problem. So many people come here in Hawaii because they cannot tolerate too much severe cold in the mainland. They come here. And again, when you come here, when it is too much hot, warm, then we require fan, we require refrigerator, we require so many . . . so problem is there. So Kṛṣṇa is saying: "My dear Arjuna, problems there will be." This is material world. You cannot avoid problem. But you should tackle with the main problem, not the insignificant or temporary problem. That is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.

The main problem is janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That is main problem. So our cultivation of knowledge, advancement of civilization, should be on the basis of solving the main problems, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, not the temporary problem. For the temporary problems, it is advised that the temporary problems, they come and go. Just like nowadays there is the petrol problem. Petrol is there, but because the Arabians are restricting supply, it has become a problem. So there are, as soon as there will be some peace agreement between the Arabians and others, this problem will be solved. Take for example. Best example is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). You can solve your petrol problem, but you can never solve the problem of winter and summer. That will come and go. So it is not that winter will remain for good, or the summer will remain for good. Āgamāpāyino 'nityāḥ. They will come and go away. So don't be bothered about them. If you feel botheration, just try to suffer or tolerate. That is not your real problem. Real problem is how to stop the birth, death, old age and disease, and that is Vedic civilization, and that is depending on the brahminical culture.

So the king's duty is to see that everyone is following the brahminical culture. The brahmin is executing his occupational duties nicely, the kṣatriyas are doing nicely in their occupational duties; similarly, vaiśyas, śūdras. That is the duty of the government, that everything is going on nicely. Otherwise, it will be a great concern, and people will be always filled up with anxieties. There will be so many troubles and problems—we cannot solve them. And it is very difficult to solve in this age of Kali. Therefore śāstra has given us injunction that:

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

(CC Adi 17.21)

Because we are so weak in this age and there are so many problems, it is very, very difficult to make a solution. Therefore śāstra says that, "You simply take to the chanting of the holy name of God."

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā

In this age there is no other way. That you will feel when you take to chanting without any offense, very simple thing, which has . . . you haven't got to spend any money for this chanting, neither we are charging. We are simply distributing this knowledge that, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, all problems will be solved."

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (offer obeisances)

Sudāmā: Any questions, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm-hmm.

Sudāmā: Any questions?

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, I just . . . when Lord Jesus Christ was talking to his disciple John, he mentioned . . . John said: "Well, what should I do?" He says: "Well, the first great commandment is to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, with all thy mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself, as thyself." When he's talking about the neighbor, isn't that true that all living entities is man's neighbor?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Devotee (1): I mean, even the bugs and everything?

Prabhupāda: There are beings who lives with animals, who live with trees, who live with human being. So many. All of them are neighbors. Just like in the modern sense, national. What is the definition of nationality? A living entity who is born in that country, he's called national. Is it not? So why you are killing cows? Are they not national? So the human law is imperfect always. They . . . there is partiality always. But in God's law there is no such thing, partiality. Therefore, Christ says that you shall love your neighbor.

Devotee (1): So all living entities . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, all living entities. We are taking, according to Vedic civilization, devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām (SB 11.5.41). We are indebted, we are obliged, to the devas, the demigods. Just like we are indebted to the sun. Sun . . . you require so much heat and light, and the sun is supplying you profuse heat and light. Are you not indebted? Do you think, or not, that we are indebted to the sun?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Are you agreeing or not?

Devotee (1): Well, I guess, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you must. If you cannot pay your electric bill one month, your electricity will be immediately cut off. And you are getting so much light from the sun, and you do not pay the bill. Then you are becoming indebted, indebted, indebted. You see? (laughter) You have to pay it. If you don't pay, then you'll be punished. So we do not know that. Devarṣi-bhūta āpta. We are taking so much milk from the cows, and we are killing instead of giving them protection. So in this way, we are simply committing sinful life. How you can expect to become happy? So the only means is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyaḥ (BG 18.66). Because you are habituated to commit sinful life only, so if you want to be saved, then you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, you have to be punished, in this life or next life. And you do not know what is your next life because you are all ignorant. But there is next life. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). But if you are most sinful, then you are going to become abominable living creatures. Adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ (BG 14.18). You go down. And if you become pious, then you are promoted. But our program is not to become pious, not to become sinful: to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That will save us.

Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, Jesus had a relationship with Kṛṣṇa, or God, as his father . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus said: "I'm son of God," and Kṛṣṇa is God, that's all.

Devotee (3): Is there a spiritual planet where Kṛṣṇa plays the part of one's father?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (3): Is there a spiritual planet where Kṛṣṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is already father for everyone, either in spiritual or material. Father is father. Does it mean, if your father goes somewhere and the relationship changes, you become father and he becomes son? He's always father, either in this apartment or that apartment. So spiritual, material world means different atmosphere only. So father is always father, and son is always son.

Devotee (4): I have a question about the living entity, the spirit soul. Is the living entity in the area of the heart, in the heart, or in the lotus of the heart?

Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not follow.

Sudāmā: Would you say it again?

Devotee (4): Is the living entity, the spirit soul, is in the heart, in the area of the heart, or in the lotus of the heart?

Sudāmā: How is the living entity, or the spirit soul, situated . . .

Prabhupāda: So why you are anxious to know so particular? He's in the heart. That's all right. Are you medical man?

Devotee (4): No, I . . .

Prabhupāda: Then why you are anxious about these details? Eh? What do you gain by that? It is said . . . in the śāstra it is said, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61): "The heart, in the heart, the . . . the Supreme Person is also there, and the living entity is also there." So much knowledge is sufficient. Still, you cannot find out. So we are not so much anxious to know whether in western side of the heart or eastern side of the heart. We do not waste time in that way. He is in the heart. That's all.

Sudāmā: Any more question?

Devotee (5): What will happen to the souls who have not become Kṛṣṇa consciousness at the end of Kali-yuga? What does Kṛṣṇa do with them?

Prabhupāda: He'll suffer. He'll suffer. Anyone who does not . . . Kṛṣṇa conscious means God conscious. The human life is meant for realizing God. So every religious system is meant for giving education about God. That is the system. Either you take Christian religion or Hindu religion or Muslim religion, the idea is to understand God. So therefore, any religion you take, it doesn't matter. If you understand what is God and if you know what is your relationship with God, then you are perfect. (break)

That is not our life, to become an impostor. It must be real person. By training, yaḥ śāstra-vidhiṁ siddhiḥ, by training under the teaching of a bona fide spiritual master, the śāstra, and then you'll automatically, the more you become a sincere, I mean to say, servitor of the spiritual master, the more you become qualified to become a teacher in the future. Otherwise where is your qualification? You may cheat others that you are teacher, but you are not actually teacher. You have no lesson, no education. A cheating is another thing. But practically to become a teacher . . . just like in a school, teacher, a teacher is appointed. When the certificate is there that he has passed M.A. examination, and he has undergone the training, B.T., Bachelor training—then he's appointed, "Yes, you can be a teacher." And any bogus man, he can be . . . he cannot be accepted as teacher. So that is going on. All bogus man, they're becoming teachers. Therefore the world condition is so degraded. A cheater is taking the place of teacher. Therefore the whole world is degraded.

Woman devotee: If we have a desire to keep these promises, but we have a hard time to do it . . .

Prabhupāda: As soon as you fail to keep your promise, then you're fallen. You have to rectify yourself. Immediately you're fallen. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim (BG 16.23). That means you'll never get perfection if you fall down. You can cheat others that, "I am in dress of a devotee, so I am . . ." But what is your character? What is your actual value? That has to be judged. That is called bona fide teacher. All right, chant. (japa) Any questions?

Devotee (1): Yes, one more.

Guest: Is the exterior clothing important?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Guest: Is the exterior identification important?

Prabhupāda: Yes, important. Just like officially the policeman must dress, but a policeman sometimes in ordinary cloth also does his duty. But that is special case. But external, external dress is also required. By . . . in the dress of a police if he is a thief, that is very dangerous. That is very dangerous. Just like this dress of sannyāsī, saffron cloth, one will respect that, "Here is a sannyāsī." But if he is a thief in a dress of a sannyāsī, that is dangerous. That is dangerous. One must dress . . . (break) (end)