760831 - Conversation - Delhi

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760831R1-DELHI - August 31, 1976 - 61:28 Minutes

(Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi)

Prabhupāda: Tabhiyat theek hai? hamara tabiyat kuch pheeka-pheeka hai. (Are you in good health? My health is not doing so good.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is always traveling.

Prabhupāda: Thoda time ka jaroorat hai. (A little bit of time is needed.)

Krishna Modi: It is needed.

Prabhupāda: This is the only hope. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Throughout the whole world, the situation is not very good. Now there is drought, no water. All over the world. I have seen whole Europe, all the fields are now gray, no green. Idhar to khoob pani baras raha hai. (Here it is raining very heavily.)

Krishna Modi: India this year is very good rains. Beyond expectation. And also this crop is very good.

Prabhupāda: Barasat hone se crop hoga. (Only if it rains there will be crops.) Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Nature's work is there. As soon as there is sufficient rain you get sufficient crops. And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). Kali-yuga, this age, the yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyaiḥ. Ek mandir me sankirtan ka ayojan kijiye sab theek ho jayega. (In one temple organize congregational chanting, everything will be alright.)

Krishna Modi: Who can do this thing?

Prabhupāda: We can do that. We can do that. Provided there is cooperation.

Krishna Modi: Oh, that is good.

Prabhupāda: Now . . .

Krishna Modi: They have not given your phone number of this place. I was not in idea that they had shifted you.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Tejiyas did not tell you.

Krishna Modi: And therefore I have phoned and phoned and phoned, but I was not getting anything.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When was this? Long time ago?

Krishna Modi: No. Yesterday. Because yesterday I was to come here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You got called by . . .

Krishna Modi: But I was called by Mr. Home Minister Brahmānanda Reddy, and he told me that you have come here . . . (indistinct) . . . so that I want to know something . . . (indistinct) . . . asking me. One question was put up in Rājya-sabhā, and he's . . . (indistinct) . . . there. I told him that he's . . . (indistinct) . . . There are some gentlemen of, er . . . Labor Minister and from . . . (indistinct) . . . gentleman and they have come from Andhra Pradesh. They were also there. One MP, Mr. D. D. Desai, he is also there. Some . . . (indistinct) . . . members. And there was . . . (indistinct) . . . and we have discussed at length. And we have told them, and there is no restriction . . . (indistinct) . . . the size and to everybody. And you see then it is in Indian history, it is first time that something has been done. All people are saying that they have done in America, they have done in so many centers all over the world, and then we are, something like that, it is shameful.

Prabhupāda: It is Indian culture.

Krishna Modi: Indian culture. Then he told me that you are perfectly right, and I am also an Indian and I have that right also, that we have no knowledge about all these things. If you have something, then you please let us know so that we may inquire the particular matter. And I told him that you inquire first, and then why I should have to inquire? Why I have? There is no matter, no anything, then how can I give the order for inquiry? On what basis? Let the something come, then I will . . . and I told them that why you are harassing? Visa, and visa, all these things, this passport, and in all these things, and you say that you go over and . . . why you are?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Visa.

Krishna Modi: Visa. Why you are harassing? I will check up. And you write me a letter so that I may call the Consulate man on the visas so that I may discuss it. And at length there was a discussion, and that was refuted because there are two, three gentlemen, personalities from Andhra, they also supported in a very . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda addressed the whole Andhra Pradesh cabinet in Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: I was invited by the . . .

Krishna Modi: Yes, they have told, they have told. And they have told also that . . . no, no, no, no, no, no. For . . . (indistinct) . . . they are the . . . (indistinct) . . . and we must respect them. And if anybody says something against them, and we must be very careful about that. And we cannot object to it. Then all we have got the same opinion . . . (indistinct) . . . and we have to . . . (indistinct) . . . this is the thing. Now about this thing . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Blitz article.

Krishna Modi: . . . Blitz article. You should not reply. I advised that. You should not reply to all these things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We gave the reply to . . .

Krishna Modi: To me. And . . .

Prabhupāda: Aaj barah baje tak humlog ka upwas hai Radharani ka janmdin. (Today we are fasting until 12 o'clock on the occasion of Radharani's birthday.) We shall take after twelve (half-day fast for Rādhāṣṭamī), later prasādam.

Krishna Modi: If Gurudeva is hungry. How I can take before?

Prabhupāda: No, you can take. You can take.

Krishna Modi: You give something so that we . . .

Prabhupāda: No. You give the whole thing to him . . . (indistinct) . . . and you have brought . . . (indistinct)

Krishna Modi: I will arrange.

Prabhupāda: Isko to lijiye. (Take this.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sweet and kṣīra. Mahā-prasādam. Nahi bad me lenge . . . (No, I will take afterwards . . .)

Krishna Modi: You will reply and also the article, so that I am arranging to call all the members Parliament they are concerning with this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. They are some members, so you give me the list of bad members also. And then we will discuss all the matters, and you will . . . then we will give the articles to all the other papers from our side.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That will be very nice.

Krishna Modi: Illustrated Weekly or News or Kalyani . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Illustrated Weekly is atheistic. Kushwant Singh, the editor, openly told us that "I don't believe in God." But Danyug is religious.

Krishna Modi: You don't mind for that. We will give. And MPs will write and sign, then we . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We will have the . . . (indistinct)

Krishna Modi: Find out . . . (indistinct) . . . and if you don't mind, I will give one suggestion more. In the Indian national interest, in this country's interest, that I should prepare some interested members to see all over the world, our, this . . .

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Krishna Modi: So that . . . let them ticket hire and air freight and all that should be paid by them. Let them support.

Prabhupāda: We have got branches in almost all important cities.

Krishna Modi: Ten or fifteen. Let them see, so that they may be attracted and they may know each and every thing. Because here we know only by this thing. And then let us advertise about.

Prabhupāda: You take this paper. Make a list of important cities. Now suppose if you go from Delhi. So you can go first to Paris, Geneva, Rome, then London, Amsterdam, Stockholm. Then from London I think . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: America.

Prabhupāda: . . . New York, Boston, Montreal, Canada. Then you go to the western side—Los Angeles, San Francisco . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Vancouver.

Prabhupāda: Vancouver.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Canada.

Prabhupāda: Go further, Honolulu.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Then you could go to the Pacific, Australia.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New Zealand, Sydney.

Prabhupāda: Australia, Sydney, Melbourne.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You can stop in Japan on the way.

Krishna Modi: Let us have a program, make a program so that some . . .

Prabhupāda: In every big city . . .

Krishna Modi: Five or ten, they should go with all their expenses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can stay at our temples, wherever they go. We will pick them up at the airport and bring them to the temple.

Krishna Modi: Pre-arrangement should be done by our . . . this thing, this transport and fooding and lodging.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Local transport and . . .

Krishna Modi: That is. So that I may fix up this program with the . . .

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Krishna Modi: . . . ten or fifteen people, so that they may go and see and all these things, and then they can also, if any question comes in the House, then they can oppose like anything. And they should submit their report also to the Prime Minister, Home Minister, to everybody, and to House also. And "This thing has been done, and we must be proud about that, that some . . ."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And to start out they can come to Vṛndāvana, which is right nearby. We can take them in a bus. We have a beautiful center in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And Māyāpur, Vṛndāvana.

Krishna Modi: Yes, that because this is in India. Whenever they like, they will see it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So when can they organize this tour? How soon can it be organized?

Krishna Modi: I'll ask them. I have an idea about that only. Because yesterday Mr. Brahmānanda Reddy already told me that, "Why not you people also stand up and say something about that? Why not you strengthen my hands? Because they press and press and they want something that I should say something. So if you people stand and then you say that, 'No, no, no, no. This is not the thing, and we have seen it and this and this and that and that.' And they will be . . ." That is his idea.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But the only people who are pressing charges are the Communists. They are just trying to . . .

Krishna Modi: But they will do. That is their duty.

Prabhupāda: They are atheists.

Krishna Modi: Yes. So that why we should mind for that? That is there. You may say they're rākṣasa, or whatever you give the . . . (laughs) They will, always they will . . .

Prabhupāda: Rākṣasas are always ready to kill God. That was the business of Rāvaṇa, that was the business of Kaṁsa, that was the business of Hiraṇyakaśipu.

Krishna Modi: That is the same thing in Rāvaṇa and this . . . what is this, at that time. That is the same thing. They were happy, they were drink and all these things, and take on and all that time, and also harassing the devotees and . . . this is their duty.

Indian man: Very . . . (indistinct)

Krishna Modi: This is their duty. Therefore we should not mind for that. Let them do it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even Russia, which is Communist, has admired Prabhupāda's books. I have written reviews—I was in Russia two months ago—from them, praising Prabhupāda's books very much. The leading professors there.

Krishna Modi: Also, this is a part of nowadays—advertise and all these things, to know each and every thing. This is correct, that why you are worrying about all these things? People should know it about you. Why not hear it? This is perfectly right, I agree with you. But in the interest of other people who have faith in their religion . . .

Prabhupāda: No, our mission is that this Kṛṣṇa cult should be preached all over the world. That is the Bhagavad-gītā decision. Find out this verse, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (BG 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). (devotees look for verse) Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ. Eighteenth Chapter. Mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati.

Hari-śauri: Is that the one, "There's no one more dear to me than . . ."? "There's no one more dear"? (to devotee) It's that one, "There's no one more dear."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in black Africa Prabhupāda has temples.

Krishna Modi: Yes, that is good.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I say even in black Africa you have temples and devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Modi: You must circulate these all things. At least to our members.

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Lokanātha: Where is the verse?

Prabhupāda: Why don't you print the opinions? Several times . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have printed.

Prabhupāda: Where is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, I have it. We have printed the reviews in all, and the Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is Authorized.

Prabhupāda: That is a simple thing, but all the reviews you should print them in book.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In a book form.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are hundreds of reviews.

Krishna Modi: And you should also supply that to at least your interested members, interested Parliament only.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll design a special booklet just for . . .

Prabhupāda: I am asking you for so many months that you publish all these opinions.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have all the opinions, but we presently have them in sheets, not in a book form. We can put it in . . .

Prabhupāda: Where is that? Where is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the sheets? Oh, I have. Yes, I have most of the reviews, book reviews, with me.

Prabhupāda: So, where is that? Bring it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Lokanātha: Read it?

ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ

mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati

bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā

mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ

(BG 18.68)

Translation: "For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me." Read the purport?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lokanātha: Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda: "Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gītā be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will neither understand Kṛṣṇa nor Bhagavad-gītā. Those who do not accept Kṛṣṇa as He is and Bhagavad-gītā as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gītā whimsically and become offenders. Bhagavad-gītā should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for devotees only and not for philosophical speculators. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead."

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Krishna Modi: That is Blitz.

Prabhupāda: Oh. It is new?

Hari-śauri: No, this is the first article.

Krishna Modi: And second article also they have given?

Hari-śauri: Yes, there's another one. Small.

Krishna Modi: Blitz has given second article also?

Hari-śauri: Yes, this last week's issue. This one's from two or three weeks ago.

Devotee: It's two weeks ago, and last week . . . every week they . . . (indistinct)

Krishna Modi: Where is that?

Hari-śauri: You have that second article?

Krishna Modi: That you are giving me today?

Devotee: Gopala Krsna will have.

Krishna Modi: Then he will give?

Hari-śauri: (aside) Bring that second article.

Prabhupāda: (reads newspaper headlines) Blitz . . . (indistinct) . . . "Ungodly face of Kṛṣṇa."

Krishna Modi: They must say like that. (laughs)

Devotee: This is for you. This is the second part of it. This is the second version.

Krishna Modi: Of this.

Devotee: Yes.

Krishna Modi: They must say it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These books have been acclaimed by scholars all over the world.

Krishna Modi: Not world, but you give us only Indian, Indian.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You want only the Indian.

Krishna Modi: Yes.

Hari-śauri: This is second one. This is last week.

Krishna Modi: This Andhra government also are Kṛṣṇa culture.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Such bogus.

Prabhupāda: No, all the ministers of Andhra government, they came to our opening ceremony of the temple. Chief Minister spoke, and the Endowment Minister, Suraj Narayan, Raju. He's a nice devotee. Le aao, patti le aao, patti, kele ka patti hai? (Bring, bring the leaf . . . leaf, you have banana leaf?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have Britannic Encyclopedia . . .

Prabhupāda: Where is the opinion of the Russian?

Krishna Modi: This is nothing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the way it is now. They're telling everyone that the Andhra government is . . .

Krishna Modi: This is nothing, I think. I don't think it is anything wrong.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It says: "Falls for Kṛṣṇa."

Krishna Modi: That is another thing. But in article they have told nothing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They try to indirectly say . . .

Krishna Modi: Ah, that is not . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they have nothing to prove . . .

Krishna Modi: Prove them therefore . . . let them say like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Britannic Encyclopedia on the book of the year, they only have about a hundred selected personalities of the world, and they had a biography on Prabhupāda.

Krishna Modi: Now I think we must systematically discuss this matter. Now I think it is decided . . .

Prabhupāda: Ek sutli le aao, usko bandh de. (Bring a cord and tie this up.)

Krishna Modi: It is now decided that you will give us all the Indian . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also should we give you what Indian professors have wrote? Like this Dr. Mahesh Mehta at the University of Windsor. Some of the Indian professors in America are very . . . Indians in India and Indians abroad.

Krishna Modi: Yes, yes, yes. Indians, all Indians abroad. Abroad and also Communist countries if anybody. Give us any report. Russia, like that, you should give us in a file, make a file. And one thing is this. Now second is that when we are . . .

Prabhupāda: This is a good book advertisement. (laughs) "Andhra government falls for Kṛṣṇa . . ."

Krishna Modi: (laughs) No, he has not written anything. It is only it seems that . . . what can be said about . . .

Prabhupāda: Whole government is supporting.

Krishna Modi: Supporting. His meaning is this, that this Congress government is also doing all these mischiefs, so that they will . . . (laughs) That his main idea, and nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also victimized by this Kṛṣṇa cult.

Krishna Modi: One thing, then, you will give us all . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Reviews.

Krishna Modi: . . . these recorded informations and all these . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And also we give you letters of leading ācāryas of India who are . . . (indistinct)

Krishna Modi: No harm. And second thing, after three months, or at the time of session, you must call the MPs for a time only for taking prasāda. And they'll come.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Four or five? All of them?

Krishna Modi: Four, five, and we will bring so many. So that let them . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have few movies on our movement. Like one is on our New Vṛndāvana farm, which shows how the Indian Vedic way of life is being adapted even in America on the farm. A movie on the Hare Kṛṣṇa people . . .

Krishna Modi: You show them at that time. I will invite. Just say you have shown that in Tirupati's house, Hare Kṛṣṇa picture, that. And that is very impressive. Everybody appreciates that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have two more movies like that.

Krishna Modi: Ah, then you must . . . I will arrange for that. In October we are meeting again after 25th.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When the session is over or almost over?

Krishna Modi: No, session is for today, that's all. Then it is over. Then at any time, you meet me. I will invite them. I will invite them. So that let them come—ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five, thirty—let them come, and let them see, and let them . . . so that our number must be . . . and third, I will request you, make a program. I will make for this work. Let them see for one month program. And they will pay all their air freight, all these things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And local transportation, local accommodation . . .

Krishna Modi: Local accommodation and all, that should be managed, and nothing else. So that let them know each and every thing so that they may . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we will give the reply to Blitz to you?

Krishna Modi: Yes, give me so that we will . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll give it to you this evening or leave it in your house.

Krishna Modi: Okay. So before 5th I will give some good papers for that . . . giving our names also. In our name. These articles will be published in our name.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to give you an article on ISKCON? A brief article? Or . . .

Krishna Modi: No, you don't give the article. You give only that like and this thing. Then we will give. In Hindi also and in English and Gujarati.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. That will be very nice. We will do that.

Krishna Modi: Agar unke paas pada hai to, sab bhuke-vukhe hai to . . . ha communist . . . (If it is lying with him and everyone is hungry, then . . . yes, communist . . .) They don't want anything. They say that religious is a opium. So that what you are doing . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . they are not liking. If they are in power then they can do like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They did it in Russia.

Krishna Modi: Because their theory is this: That this God and all these religious matters, this is a opium, and this is a kind of, you may say it that in the umbrella, religious in the name of . . .

Prabhupāda: And what they have done, the Communists?

Krishna Modi: They have not done anything. They should not do anything. It is not their duty.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?

Krishna Modi: That is . . . they say like that, that "We are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their garment, education, medical free. We are giving the to common men . . .

Prabhupāda: Medical . . . (indistinct) . . . is free. Free medical service, education . . . (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . and in the offices of big, big professors and all, it looks so much lower than in America or Canada.

Krishna Modi: And in the comparison of India?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, in some respects I found them even lower than India. You'll be amazed . . . I visited all the leading libraries of Russia and Leningrad, Moscow University Library, all the big libraries. These libraries don't have any foreign exchange for ordering these books. They all want to order . . . they were begging me for free books. They said: "Why don't you give us a donation or exchange?" They have a book exchange that if they give their books then we give our books. Each library gets such little foreign exchange allowance to buy books from abroad.

Prabhupāda: A taxi driver, he was asking some bakshish.

Krishna Modi: In Russia.

Prabhupāda: And I was talking with Professor Kotovsky. I asked him, "Please call for a taxi." So he said, "Swāmījī, it is Moscow." That means taxis are not available. Then he came down with me, and from the gate he showed me, "You take this shortcut when you go to your hotel." He could not call a taxi. Taxis are not available. He said: "Oh, it is Moscow."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But even the taxi drivers are very corrupt because of the shortage of taxis in Russia. You have to stand in line for taxis.

Prabhupāda: Not taxi—bus.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Even for taxis they have no taxi stands where you stand in line. So the taxi driver, he will park his car a little bit away.

Prabhupāda: In my opinion it is a poor country. I think poorer than India.

Krishna Modi: They have advertised only.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have good propaganda.

Prabhupāda: And people are not happy. They are terrorized.

Krishna Modi: That is correct. That is correct. In Parliament we are telling that they are a first-class prisoner. First-class prison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First-class prisoners. Not first-class; third-class. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But I was told . . . because a lot of people in Russia who are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa also. It's very . . . there's a lot of corruption. Even the taxi drivers are corrupt. They'll park their taxi a bit away then come and approach you when you are standing in a line and say: "Okay, I'll take you there," but he'll tell you three times the price because everyone's waiting in such a long line for a taxi.

Prabhupāda: Black market.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And one friend of ours told us what they do, because all the cars belong to the state, a lot of taxis, the people . . .

Krishna Modi: The taxis are not independent.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they all belong to the state. But the driver, if he makes extra money, that goes in his pocket. And they have tipping also.

Prabhupāda: And they are always anxious to get extra. Buses are not very good. Third-class buses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And a lot of people want foreign exchange there. Like they'll ask . . .

Krishna Modi: I'm going.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You're going to Russia? When?

Krishna Modi: Yes, on 4th of October.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: For how long?

Krishna Modi: About fifteen days.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Visit.

Krishna Modi: Budapest also. Because I am not Communist, and I'm not supporting also Communist. Therefore they have not told that, "He should not be sent there." Told me. But due to some . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You are going to just Budapest? That is Hungary.

Krishna Modi: Hungary, yes. Hungary then Moscow. Then Moscow, Leningrad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. Actually, I can give you a book from Leningrad if you wish to . . . this is from Moscow if you want to read it. It's all about Moscow. These are of course the good pictures of Moscow. You wish to have it? I can give it to you. This is on Moscow. I also have one on Leningrad.

Krishna Modi: I will take after lunch.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a letter from the biggest library in Russia to Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. They have ordered some books, and they want the remaining books but they wanted free, in exchange. But they don't have the money. They want all of Prabhupāda's books but they don't have the money, so they want in exchange. This is from the biggest library in Russia.

Krishna Modi: Our economy is something good at this time.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Indian economy . . .

Krishna Modi: Indian economy is better. Income tax also they have got 67% more. Because they have reduced the rate.

Prabhupāda: What is the percentage?

Krishna Modi: Before that the percentage is 97, but last year, is 1976, in the March they have reduced the income tax from 97 to 65 . . . 67 and a half.

Prabhupāda: In America it is 25.

Krishna Modi: No, not 25, that is 45. But there is a system in West Germany that if you earn more, the tax will be less. That is their system. If we will earn . . . (indistinct) . . . then the tax percentage will be lower. Lower.

Prabhupāda: That is good. That is good. The psychology is that if you earn more and government will tax more, then the impetus for earning more is cut.

Krishna Modi: That is the point. Therefore they have got no black money. And here the system is different. If you will earn more, then you will have to pay more. It means people are not as interested in earning.

Prabhupāda: Therefore what is the use of earning? What is the use of earning?

Krishna Modi: That is true.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they are reducing the . . .

Krishna Modi: Then I will get all the replies and papers today. And I will arrange each and everything before 5th or 6th of September.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You leave here the 6th?

Krishna Modi: Oh, no. I will leave today or tomorrow. But I will come and I will arrange all these things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When are you coming back here?

Krishna Modi: I will come back on 5th.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifth. Okay. So I'll meet you on the 5th then.

Krishna Modi: No, I will ring you here. You give me the telephone number. No, we don't mind for them. We will crush them for all these things. They can't speak like that. If they will discredit India, then . . .

Prabhupāda: One thing, general thing, that I am writing books and selling in foreign countries, and I'm bringing the money here. It is for India's sake.

Krishna Modi: But somebody should tell in the House all these things.

Prabhupāda: You can tell.

Krishna Modi: That is the thing only. That is the point of Mr. Brahmānanda Reddy also. Yesterday he told me . . .

Prabhupāda: This is the important point, that my books are sold daily sixty thousand dollars all over the world. I have made the Trust so all the collections should be divided fifty percent for constructing temple and fifty percent for reprinting books. But we don't take a paisa profit. So far as an author, they are selling, sixty thousand dollars. And even if I would have taken ten percent royalty then it would have been six thousand dollars. Six thousand dollars means . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hundred and eighty thousand dollars a month.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Six thousand dollars means . . . say ten rupees.

Krishna Modi: Sixty thousand per day.

Prabhupāda: Sixty thousand per day. Actually. But we are all foregoing it for pushing on this movement, and if we bring that money and construct big, big temple or planetarium, what is the harm to India?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is bringing in more foreign exchange than even big business export concerns.

Prabhupāda: I'm bringing regularly not less than ten lakhs of rupees per month.

Krishna Modi: Sending to India. We must tell them all these things.

Prabhupāda: You tell.

Krishna Modi: That is the thing. This is the Brahmānanda Reddy told yesterday that some members must be briefed and they must tell something, so that my hands may be strengthened and so that I may . . .

Prabhupāda: It is a great credit that I am selling my books and bringing ten lakhs of rupees from foreign country in India.

Krishna Modi: That we will speak. And his mind is very clear. Brahmānanda Reddy, his mind is very clear, very clear, and he is appreciating. And he is in our favor hundred percent.

Prabhupāda: Even not in our favor, I am working hard in foreign countries and bringing money to India. You should give us some credit. But instead of giving credit, I am being criticized in the Parliament.

Krishna Modi: They are putting like this. They are putting this case like that, that foreign money is coming here to advertise the American embassies, like that. They are that talking like that.

Prabhupāda: They may talk nonsense, but this is the fact. This is the fact. I have got my Book Trust Fund, and I've advised regularly to send eight lakhs of rupees per month. That is being spent in Bombay, in . . . I'm not collecting from here.

Krishna Modi: That is correct.

Prabhupāda: So if a Indian brings from foreign country by his labor eight lakhs of rupees per month, how much credit he should be given? He should be recognized. But instead of recognizing they are criticizing.

Krishna Modi: This is their way, sir. That is their . . . they have to. They must do it. Because . . .

Prabhupāda: So you kindly speak to the Parliament that, "This is the position, that he is working day and night . . ."

Krishna Modi: Oh, no, I will speak very high about this. Let them . . . let the matter come. And if not come then we will take this matter. I will give the question. You please reply how much money is coming and in what way they are doing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Krishna Modi: I will ask the question.

Prabhupāda: Prove that the American government is supplying some way. No. We are selling our books.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, when you go abroad you can even see how our income's coming, how our temples live. We are all over the world.

Prabhupāda: That is our books are being printed.

Krishna Modi: A very big thing it is. It is marvelous that you have done such a thing. It is proud of India that . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New York devotees just got a twelve-story building right in the center, and I know the local Hindus, they are trying to build a small temple since twenty years, and they're not succeeding. And right in the center of New York we have a twelve-story building. Now all the Hindus are coming to us.

Prabhupāda: You have got that picture, New York temple?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Ratha-yātrā picture? (discussion about who has pictures) Ratha-yātrā, the New York paper.

Hari-śauri: In the new magazine.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New York Times, Newsweek. All the Indians came. They said, "East Meets West."

Prabhupāda: Now who has converted so many of . . . this is one party. (referring to kīrtana going on in temple room) Hundreds of parties like this, they are engaged in kīrtana. India government is sending so many professional dancers by paying them from the cultural department, and what I am getting? Not a single farthing. And still I am bringing.

Krishna Modi: Ah, Indian culture is . . . you . . . nobody has done these things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like gurukula.

Prabhupāda: The Ratha-yātrā festival, where is?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the news of Ratha-yātrā. Here. "New York Celebrates Festival of Chariots." Even at the U.N. conference we were there. They welcomed Vedic . . . we presented a Vedic reply to the U.N. conference.

Prabhupāda: Wherever possible we are presenting Vedic culture, Indian culture. And I have no support from the government.

Krishna Modi: Let us have.

Prabhupāda: And a professional dancer is going, and the government is paying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I'd like you to take this, because this also has an article at length about our gurukula system in America. (indistinct explanation)

Prabhupāda: Unless they are appreciating this culture, how they are accepting?

Krishna Modi: It is perfectly right. But they must do it like that.

Prabhupāda: Who will do? Do it . . . we can give you all information.

Krishna Modi: That I will speak each and every thing. I will give a speech about all these things in any way. I have got . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is later. Just came. This is only a sample copy that we have.

Krishna Modi: And what is your program, sir?

Prabhupāda: My program is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and write books. That's all.

Krishna Modi: No, no, now. Staying in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am going to Vṛndāvana.

Krishna Modi: Today?

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow. Aaplog sab Brindavan ek din aaiye na. (You all come one day to Vṛndāvana.)

Krishna Modi: And you are staying at Vṛndāvana up to . . .

Prabhupāda: At least three weeks.

Krishna Modi: Three weeks.

Kṛṣṇa: So we can arrange a bus and take some . . .

Krishna Modi: You will arrange for bus?

Prabhupāda: Let them go. They have got their cars.

Krishna Modi: They have their car also, and they have got this Taj and all these trains. Why you arrange? Let them spend.

Prabhupāda: I wanted to work in India by spreading sankīrtana, provided I get little cooperation of the government.

Krishna Modi: That we will talk. That we will talk.

Prabhupāda: One cooperation is that we can bring immediately a small vans or buses so that we can go village to village, town to town. If I get government funding, then . . . because here, the buses are very costly, and at the same time they are not very good. But foreign buses . . . India hasn't got to pay anything, but simply let us have and work in India. This much facility wanted. Besides that, our men, they are coming, spending ten thousand rupees, and after three months or six months, "Get out, get out, get out." And Indians are not joining. Indians are not so sacrificing. But these boys, they have sacrificed everything. I am sure if some cooperation is coming from the government I can very soon change the face of India. But I am not getting any facilities. We have experimented in Bengal, and here also, he is also going, saṅkīrtana party. But he could not do it in a large scale for want of facilities. And in foreign countries these boys are so sacrificing spirit, as soon as we give him some program, immediately they make arrangement. Immediately. We are going village to village with books in buses. Hundreds of buses are working.

Krishna Modi: In America.

Prabhupāda: In America, in Europe. They have got facilities, full facilities. And the government appreciates. Some of the governments, they have given public holiday of the Ratha-yātrā.

Paramahaṁsa: This is from the Mayor of San Francisco proclaiming that Ratha-yātrā is a public holiday.

Krishna Modi: In America.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, fifty thousand people come every year.

Prabhupāda: And this time, New York, the government, the police, they appreciated that this kind of dancing, it is not artificial. So here is life. They appreciated. What the American boys have got to dance for Kṛṣṇa unless it is from the heart? They are not dancing dogs, that I have trained them and they are dancing.

Paramahaṁsa: This is the temple in New York.

Prabhupāda: So there are so many things to be done in India, but I am, without getting any cooperation, I am getting opposition.

Krishna Modi: Correct. Now let us . . . we must be active. We must be active.

Prabhupāda: It will be good for the country, for the whole nation.

Krishna Modi: And we will come Vṛndāvana also.

Prabhupāda: Please come. I am there for three weeks.

Krishna Modi: How many rupees per day for three days?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a thirty-room guest house in Vṛndāvana.

Krishna Modi: Thirty room!

Paramahaṁsa: You bring eighty persons with you, make nice arrangements.

Prabhupāda: If you want sir, that is charge. We charge.

Krishna Modi: That is . . . you must charge it.

Lokanātha: Our charges are very nominal.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A donation to the temple.

Krishna Modi: That is perfectly correct. You must charge. If your members will get free.

Lokanātha: Yes. Each room has a fan, bath . . .

Prabhupāda: It is . . . (indistinct)

Krishna Modi: That is perfect.

Prabhupāda: I think air-conditioned? No.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Some rooms are air-conditioned, two or three . . .

Prabhupāda: As far as your Governor Reddy, he went. He stayed there two days. He has certified . . . he sent me a recent letter, you'll be surprised. Ask Harikeśa to bring that letter, latest letter from Channerjee.

Krishna Modi: No, I have seen that. I have seen that.

Prabhupāda: Latest?

Krishna Modi: Latest. Also I heard that this Channa Reddy, Governor of the U.P. I have seen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's one of our gurukula children.

Prabhupāda: Let us cooperate. You'll see how I can change the face of India.

Krishna Modi: Let us have now . . . let us train some members also.

Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nation can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture . . . I have given this philosophy to the American students: andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the . . . at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.

Krishna Modi: Ah, what is politics? It's a perfectly religious movement.

Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys, they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees, minimum. Minimum salary, America, is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So . . . and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk, they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go, you take immediately. Anything. Building materials—you simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but here there are so many difficulties.

Prabhupāda: Here simply difficulties. In comparison to other countries, I have seen that it is simply difficulty. Frankly speaking. And to speak more frankly, why there is Emergency? Emergency means bad government. Otherwise, there is no necessity of Emergency. Emergency proves the government is not going nice. Is it not? Why Emergency? If it is normally going on nicely, then where is the question of Emergency?

Krishna Modi: Emergency means that is something unnormal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is normal, there is no question of Emergency. That is the proof. Another thing, personally, from the Vedic point of view, I don't think India is ready to take actually democracy. Mass of people, they do not care for politics. You have better experience. There, in other countries, even a small man, he has got political sense.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it is in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me, "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?"). So, log janta hi nahi kya ho raha hai. (people don't know what is going on.) The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule, "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. "Anyone may come, and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right." The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India, monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the rāj family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

Krishna Modi: There is no difference. In the name of democracy this is the same thing. That's all.

Prabhupāda: No, democracy means the people must have political sense. Then democracy is there. If the people have no political sense, artificially they are giving vote, that democracy . . . anyway, we are not political men, but so far whatever it may be, to change the present situation, I am confident if this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is taken seriously in India there will be very, very good change. That is absolute. So we can take up this work provided there is little cooperation from the government.

Krishna Modi: Correct. So I will come to Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Jaya. (end)