701205 - Conversation B - Indore

Conversations by Date, 1970

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

701205R2-Indore - December 05, 1970 - 44:46 Minutes

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda invited at Baba Bal Mukund and Vairāgya-bhava Mahārāja, had come to Indore from Bombay. On 3rd of December and he delivered lectures. The last two lectures recorded in the morning of the fourth and fifth. At the Gītā Bhavan in Indore and the last speaking was kīrtana then in the room of Baba Bal Mukund. At the Gītā Bhavan and just after the lecture on the fifth. Present now with His Divine Grace in Indore just now, Himāvatī and Hansadutta and Revatīnandana das brahmacārī.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . I am willing give me this nice foodstuff into my mouth. That means the part and parcel is healthy when he gives service to the whole body. Similarly, because you are part and parcel of . . .

(break) . . . that is your . . . (indistinct) . . . you'll have. You can adopt any other process. Suppose the finger catches one sweetmeat, if you think, if the finger thinks that we are puzzled why shall I give it to the stomach? Let me enjoy. It will not be able to enjoy. It will simply spoil.

Similarly we part and parcel . . . the karmīs, they are trying to enjoy themselves in this world. So their mistake. They cannot enjoy, therefore they are unhappy here. The jñānīs they are rejecting this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. So it is the hands business to take a sweetmeat and if it is robbed for personal enjoyment, it is waste of time. It will gives us, so I cannot enjoy therefore I stick to this, thrown away. That is not limited. But if the finger takes it and gives it to the stomach that is its real duty.

Similarly if you want to enjoy this world that is mistake. If you want to renounce this world, that is mistake. If you take this world for service of the Lord—that is enjoyment.

So what is your question about this? Mātājī boliye. (Yes, mataji you can ask.) Did you follow what I said?

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ah. So.

Indian (1): My question actually is about this thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): Therefore as we grow old, service towards God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Lul.

Indian (1): Lul.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): And in that way he becomes too much selfish, in full.

Prabhupāda: No, no that is not selfish.

Indian (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, you do not . . . you did not understand. If we say there is a story parāṇy indriyāna in Hitopadeśa. That the senses of the body they made a strike. That the stomach is eating simply and we are working. The leg said, "Oh I am walking," the hands said that, "I am doing this." The finger said, "I am." All the senses, just like now a days there is strike. So there was a strike they failed to fill the stomach. But the result was gradually they became weak.

The next conference on the matter, "Why you are becoming weak." Then they found that the only reason is that we did not serve the stomach. So let us again begin to serve the stomach. They become happy. Similarly the whole modern civilisation has revolted against God, so that becoming . . . (indistinct) . . . if there is a relut again to serve God, they will be happy. Otherwise there is no happiness. There is no peace.

Indian (1): Swami I have been told to that . . . (indistinct) . . . nagar. I met, some other representatives of . . . (indistinct) . . . they told me then I asked him what makes you to come over here. Some thousand miles from their country. They told me that is a lot of disappointment in our country. I said . . . (indistinct) . . . these people. Are they actually covering what we want to teach, do our philosophy or they have simply have come . . . just in their own . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But do you know your philosophy? You want to know but do you know what is your philosophy?

Indian (1): We have lost the spiritual. The spiritually . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Who?

Indian (1): (indistinct) . . . what Gītā is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do you understand the Gītā?

Indian (1): No I don't.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Indian (1): Nobody can claim to understand it. We came to just try to understand it.

Prabhupāda: Then how you will be taught? Talking on the Bhagavad-gītā if you do not understand it?

Indian (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ah. So this is the point. That you cannot be aloof from the service of the Lord. If you do that then you will suffer. But if you be engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, then you will be happy. This is the philosophy. Now if you do not understand this philosophy. I have already given you the example. Now what is your saying? What do you want to say about this things?

Indian (1): Swamiji. It is your own philosophy then one must sit down . . . (indistinct) . . . a particular . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, no why sit down. You have to give service to the Lord, where is the question of sit down? Why do you say like that?

Indian (1): (indistinct) . . . these things . . . (indistinct) . . . service to the God.

Prabhupāda: Why not? If I say that you do this, all my disciples are doing. You do this, they are doing. That is service.

Indian (1): So we can't take ourselves . . . (indistinct) . . . representative of God. We can do what the God . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What you mean by representative of God? Do you know who is representative of God?

Indian (1): Nobody. We are everybody others are either nobody . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Do you know what is the meaning of representative?

Indian (1): Representative means what God expects or what our . . .

Prabhupāda: What God expects, you know?

Indian (1): God expects that we should be so much vigil. We should be of certain nature, if we can, we can do or follow our own soul we can be. We can try to become nearer to God by our good doings and we should not be so much . . .

Prabhupāda: What is your good doings?

Indian (1): Good doings?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by good doings?

Indian (1): Not to hurt others.

Prabhupāda: Then why you are killing animals?

Indian (1): We do not.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you struggle. Give service to the Lord. At least you do something for God.

Indian (1): I don't take meat.

Prabhupāda: You don't take meat but if you think that animals should not be. Slaughtered, if you do not understand any other philosophy, you can stop it. You can try. That is a struggle. Now to representative, to become representative of God you say that. You cannot say that you are representative of God. That was only . . . (indistinct) . . . so whom do you accept as representative of God?

Indian (1): Simply given . . . (indistinct) . . . God is the representative.

Prabhupāda: Then how do you say, that you cannot claim yourself as representative.

Indian (1): It is not you! It is not you! You . . . (indistinct) . . . nobody can claim.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Why one does not claim? Why one cannot claim as representative of God? What is the reason?

Indian (1): Even God doesn't claim that he reveals God. Why you should claim that you are representative of God?

Prabhupāda: Who? Who is that God? Who says: "I am not God." Who has done that?

Indian (1): Nobody says that, "I am God."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prabhupāda: Nobody says: "I am God."

Prabhupāda: Nobody says—but Kṛṣṇa says.

Indian (1): Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has told a different meaning.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (1): Kṛṣṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Do you know that meaning?

Indian (1): He said about the karma.

Prabhupāda: What does he say? What does he say? Just quote from Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian (1): He, He, He, He may claim to be God but you are so angry to be representative.

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Indian (1): Tell you?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not know. You do not know.

Indian (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda Yes. He said

na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu

kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ

(BG 18.69)

Whoever teaches the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is dearer than him. Therefore he is representative.

Devotee: Sarva-dharmān parityajya.

Prabhupāda: Mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ. (BG 18.66)

So Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja—and we are preaching. Sarva-dharmān parityajya—you just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So are you not representative? Are you not speaking on behalf of Kṛṣṇa?

Indian (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to agree. Representative means who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. He is representative.

Indian (1): And one who follows.

Prabhupāda: He is also representative. So just clear the idea who is representative. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Unfortunately busy, we do not read it carefully. Kṛṣṇa says: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja. Anyone who preaches this philosophy, he is representative of Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi māśucaḥ.

Prabhupāda: That you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you will be happy. He is representative.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not very difficult task to become representative of Kṛṣṇa or God. Simply you have to act. So all these boys and girls who are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all representatives of Kṛṣṇa. Because they are speaking the same thing. Suppose if I say: "I want a glass of water." And if some of you goes immediately, "Oh Swamiji wants a glass of water." Then you are the principal. You immediately take my interest. He is thirsty, immediately one glass of water should be supplied to him. That is my interest becomes your interest. Therefore you are representative. As soon as you take my interest, as your interest. Immediately you are representative.

Indian (2): You become . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (2): You become . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is representative. This is intelligence. We have to know what God wants. And if we act according to that then we are representative. Not that God has to come here and give you a certificate, "Oh this is, this man is my representative." You are already representative, sarvataḥ pāṇi-pāda hasta (BG 13.14).

In Bhagavad-gītā, he has got everywhere his hands and legs. That means everywhere he has got representative. Everyone of us is representative because we are part and parcel but if I deny then it is māyā. Actually I am representative, if I deny then no. "I don't care for Kṛṣṇa," then I am in māyā.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So this Krishna Consciousness Movement is very scientific movement. Authorized movement.

Indian (2): Does it . . . (indistinct) . . . also?

Prabhupāda: Don't you see, here in action?

Indian (2): No, to say that you follow this and you do this and do not do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (2): This is something to propagate and to convert the God but to . . .

Prabhupāda: But that is your business to canvass for God. That is representative. What is representative? He is canvassing for God. That is all. That is representative. What do you mean by representative? If he does not canvass for God what kind of representative? He is a bogus. You have to work for God that is your principles.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (2): From the hell to.

Prabhupāda: I am not King of any society. First of all you try to understand, what is mean by representation of . . . representative of God. Anyone may become representative of God. It does not mean Indian's have monopolised to become representative of God. Everyone can be.

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone . . . Kṛṣṇa is the father of everyone, even the animals. Therefore there should be no distinction, that Indians should be representative of Kṛṣṇa and not the Americans. This is not mentioned in any where, Bhagavad-gītā.

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

(BG 14.4)

In any species of life. Any form of life. I am the seed giving father. This is Bhagavad-gītā. So we are preaching the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, AS IT IS. Therefore we are representative of Kṛṣṇa. Is there any difficulty to understand?

Indian (2): So is it necessary that one should renounce the world.

Prabhupāda: Who says? Why do you put this question?

Indian (2): Like you have renounced all known.

Prabhupāda: Raghunātha has not renounced, he is a gṛhastha. He has got his wife but the husband and wife they are worshipped.

Indian (2): (indistinct) . . . or representative they renounce the world. They leave their family.

Prabhupāda: Renounced the world means renounce to enjoy the world. That is renunciation. I am renounced but I am sitting in a comfortable seat, even you cannot sit at your home. So what does it mean that I am renounced? But I am sitting here for service of Kṛṣṇa that's all. I do not claim that He is mine.

Indian (2): Can we not serve the God?

Prabhupāda: Why not? Everyone can.

Indian (2): But the . . . (indistinct) . . . so many people they say you will have to renounce . . . (indistinct) . . . to become Svāmī.

Prabhupāda: That is. That is a nonsense. He does not know what is God or what is.

Indian (2): (indistinct) . . . they have to put their hair . . . they have put on a different sort of dress. They are looking like.

Prabhupāda: They may do whatever they may do. You do not do it.

Indian (2): No it is necessary.

Prabhupāda: No. It is not necessary. It is not necessary you can do in this dress. If you have got any objection that is cleanliness. You should like to keep your hair. They feel comfortable by giving up this hair. They had also very big, big hair and now they're feeling comfortable. It is a question of facility. That is not very important thing.

Indian (2): (indistinct) . . . what is your experience? After hearing what you are doing, what is your experience?

Prabhupāda: That you can understand the experience was very bad.

Indian (2): (indistinct) . . . otherwise how did you tell me? Why . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is not very intelligent question.

Indian (2): No . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Established United Nations organisation. Hasti and they are. They are distracting actually there is no. Simply increasing fighting.

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: And therefore when there were. Whenever there is fighting the young men are called. So therefore they are disappointed. What is this? They speak of thieves, nonsense and they are always calling us for fighting. Is it not the cause of disappointment? There is no practical proposition by all these rascals scientists and politicians. They are simply bluffing. Therefore young men have become disappointed. So this bluffing business should be stopped. Genuine things should be taken. That is Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian (2): But Swamiji . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (2): Only . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, why you interpret science? They are doing practically.

Indian (2): Here?

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Haṁsadūta: We are not sitting idle. Just chanting . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda:(break) So we are not concerned with the requirement. We are concerned with the teachings, teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian (2): (indistinct) . . . Bhagavad-gītā.

Indian (1): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: My question is, that you are discussing Bhagavad-gītā, about 25 years and what is your practical result? That is my question.

Indian (1): (indistinct) . . . Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (1): (indistinct) . . . Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian (1): . . . (indistinct)

Audience: (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just see the position. Now you understand?

Indian (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: The same thing which I explained. That Bhagavad-gītā means minus Kṛṣṇa. One, zero, zero, zero, zero, that's a balance and without that one simply zeros. Imagine however any number of zeros their value is zero. Similarly Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is all zero. That means for the last 35 years you are dealing with zeros. I must tell you frankly. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa . . . and Bhagavad-gītā means Kṛṣṇa. So you have carefully avoided Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Eh? That is the going on everywhere. There are so many Gītā Bhavan's all over the country. Where there is no understanding of Kṛṣṇa. And Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this. So just try to understand what kind of Bhagavad-gītā you are reading. There are so many scholars of Bhagavad-gītā all over the world in institutions for preaching Bhagavad-gītā. But everywhere I go—minus Kṛṣṇa. Finished business.

So this is the first time in the history of the world at least that we are preaching Kṛṣṇa is everything in the Bhagavad-gītā . . . here also the same thing there is one idol speaker and so many dolls of different demigods and none of the members practically know thoroughly what is Kṛṣṇa. Neither the Kṛṣṇa's instruction is followed: mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

If one was to follow mām ekaṁ kṛṣṇa, then why so many dolls and pictures?

(pause)

And we have started this Krishna Consciousness Movement—all the members they do not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. You see practically. Just see the difference of preaching of this Krishna Consciousness Movement and others dealing with Bhagavad-gītā. Now try to understand.

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (2): Swamiji . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: They are not doing anything. Neither understand. Do they understand what is Kṛṣṇa? They simply take advantage of the popular book of Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. Gandhi dealt in politics. Of course even in Bhagavad-gītā there is politics also. But he wanted to introduce nonviolence. He was understood to be a great devotee of Bhagavad-gītā. But where is Bhagavad-gītā in nonviolence?

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa you'll see so many pictures in our book. Kṛṣṇa is engaged in violence. So many demons are being killed. Personally He's killing. And He says: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁn vināśāya ca duṣkṛtāḥ (BG 4.8).

"To kill the duṣkṛtaḥ," and He is practically doing that. So where is the question of Kṛṣṇa's life, nonviolence? When He was child He committed violence, immediately.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Not different cinemas.

Indian (2): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Sohi-vit. And in. And His enemies also found in the very beginning of His coming out from the womb of His mother. Kaṁsa was ready to kill Him. So He has got enemies from the very beginning of His life and He has begun killing from the beginning of His life. All the enemies He perturbed. So how you can prove that Kṛṣṇa was non-violent? But Gandhi took that, "I shall prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā." That means he misled, Bhagavad-gītā.

If you want to do something which is not, then you should misinform people. This is this, this is that. If you receive a wood and if you want to prove that it is gold. Then you have to make some propaganda, false propaganda. That's all. Because actually it is wood. So how can you prove that it is gold? That means you have to make some false propaganda and make wood so they will accept it as gold. Similarly Kṛṣṇa is full of violence and if from the life of Kṛṣṇa you want to prove nonviolence. That means you have to make false propaganda. That is being done.

So if you are actually . . . my request to you is that for the last 45 years I may tell you frankly that they are simply wasted. If you want actually to derive some benefit from Bhagavad-gītā, then this now here. Don't be misguided. That is my request. Why you should be misguided? When you have got this genuine knowledge of God as Bhagavad-gītā. Why you should be misguided? Why you should be allowed to be misguided? That is my request. People are searching after God, you're doubtful about God, in the presence of Bhagavad-gītā. How much foolishness it is.

If the thing's present and if you say: "I don't find it." Then how much foolishness it is? If the light is there and if you say: "I am in darkness. I do not find the light." Then you become . . . what is called? Owl. Owl, although there is day and there is sun, he does not know. That there is sun and there is light. It is owl's philosophy. Frog philosophy, owl's philosophy. Eh? Owl in the presence of shine, sun, he close eyes and he says: "No, there is no sun. There is no light." In the name of Bhagavad-gītā this owl philosophy is going on. And sometimes frog philosophy is going on.

Indian (2): (laughs) naturally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The frog philosophy, you know?

Indian (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Indian (2): The well is the whole world.

Prabhupāda: No frog philosophy. Do you know frog?

Indian (2): That I know.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That if you. It has got a philosophy. That is called frog philosophy. What is that?

Indian (2): It doesn't consider anything else than the well.

Prabhupāda: That is the well. Yes. He is trying to understand Atlantic ocean from within the well. So what he will understand? He's simply measuring, "Ah, Atlantic ocean may be so big, so big, so big and then he becomes . . . what is called? . . . (indistinct) . . . puzzled. You see? And similarly people are thinking, "I am God, I am God, I am God." Now this philosophy is going on. Somebody is saying, "God is dead. There is no God, or gone." And somebody is saying: "I am God, you are God, everyone God." So practically the same thing. This is frog philosophy. And in the presence of God if one says: "That there is no God." That is called owl's philosophy.

So we should not be misled by this owl's philosophy and frog's philosophy. We should follow the real philosophy and then it will be benefited. Why these people say: "There is no God?" In the presence of Kṛṣṇa. What is their reason? Can you say? Why people say: "That there is no God?" Can you say? Can anyone of you say? What do you think?

Mātājī: I . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mātājī: I personally think . . . (indistinct) . . . name Kṛṣṇa or Rāma . . . (indistinct) . . . they are the Supreme Power . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: You know that Supreme Power?

Mātājī: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not Kṛṣṇa?

Mātājī: (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa. But then . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Do you accept Kṛṣṇa as God?

Mātājī: (indistinct) . . . God . . . (indistinct) . . . the Supreme Power is Kṛṣṇa. Whatever name . . . (indistinct) . . . but there is a power.

Prabhupāda: I mean to say, that have you got any objection to accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Power?

Mātājī: No, no objection.

Prabhupāda: That is my point.

Mātājī: I accept . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) there is somebody. That's nice proposition. But if that somebody is Kṛṣṇa whether you have got any objection? Not that I am certain somebody.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: To say, "Somebody must be my father?" Because I am born. Why I do not know who is my father? Is that very good intelligence? Your proposition.

Mātājī: (indistinct) . . . father.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact, that is a fact.

Mātājī: (indistinct) . . . I have father.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mātājī: And my father made me . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you do not know that. Then your knowledge is imperfect. If you simply think, "Yes because I am born. There is. Must be there is father." That's nice. But I do not know the name of father. That's very good intelligence?

Mātājī: No, no.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Mātājī: I have . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No first of all you answer this.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Do you accept that there is a father? Suppose you are born a posthumous child, you have never seen your father. Since the birth. But when you are grown-up you know there must be some father otherwise how I am born? But if you say I do not know the name of my father. Is that very good intelligence?

Mātājī: No it is not . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Then? So how you can say that there is some God but I do not know what is his name.

Mātājī: No I know his name. . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian (2): (indistinct) . . . how can you say that . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No, if you know from your mother. You might have not seen your father but your mother knows exactly what is your father. Therefore you have to learn from your mother what is the name of your father. You may be posthumous child while you are in the womb of your mother your father might have died. I am giving an example. So after your birth you might have not seen your father but that does not mean you should not know about your father. Does it mean that because you have not seen your father you could not know anything and everything of your father? Is that a good philosophy?

Mātājī: No.

Prabhupāda: Similarly you might have not seen God but you must know everything of God. That is intelligence. Then how you can know it? That is the point. Just like you have to know from a reliable authority your mother. Who knows actually what is . . . who is your father. You cannot know about your father from any other man. Except your mother. If your mother says that your father was like this, your father's teacher. This is the coat of your father. And he was such and such nice gentleman his name was this, he was doing like that.

Then you know everything even though you have not seen your father. So similarly, it is not necessary that you have to see Kṛṣṇa or God personally. But there is a source to know about Him. That is the Vedas. You cannot evade to understand about your father simply because you have not seen. That is not argument. You cannot say that because you have not seen God therefore I do not believe in God or I do not know anything about God. That is not intelligence.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mātājī: (indistinct) . . . there is mother to answer the question right. But here there are so many, I mean to say . . .

Prabhupāda: What? No. There cannot be so many.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I have discovered it.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Mother means—right mother.

Mātājī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Mother does not mean false mother.

Mātājī: No, no I don't mean that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mātājī: But how do we know . . . (indistinct) . . . but we are . . . (indistinct) . . . don't know. Who should answer the question if he is disentitled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your answer to your question is very intelligent. Therefore we call vedamātā. Vedamātā have you heard this word?

Mātājī: No.

Prabhupāda: Veda. The knowledge of Vedas is considered as mother.

Mātājī: Yes that I know.

Prabhupāda: So you have to learn from the Vedas. Vedamātā. Just like you learn about your father from your real mother. Similarly the original father Kṛṣṇa, you have to learn from the Vedas. Because Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15).

(I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness. By all the Vedas am I to be known; indeed I am the compiler of Vedānta, and I am the knower of the Vedas.)

The Vedas gives . . . knowledge about Me. Through Veda one has to learn Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we take Vedas and the followers of Vedānta and the commentary on Vedānta. Then you know what is God. Vedānta says that the father God is the supreme father who has begotten everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (Vedānta Sūtra 1.1.2).

From whom everything has taken birth. Just like father gives birth to the child. Or the state or the anything in the family. Similarly the Parabrahma, Supreme Brahma is He who has begotten everything. All these living entities, this material world—and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. That these five elements; bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁbuddhir mano eva . . . iti bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4).

Me, that is Kṛṣṇa's. And again he says: apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5).

There is another prakṛti, that is jīva. So what is this material world? These five elements, mind intelligence and the jīva. That's all. And these things are prakṛti of Kṛṣṇa, wife or strī of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is the father. And prakṛti is the mother and everything is born out of Kṛṣṇa and this prakṛti.

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya

sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ

tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma

ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā

(BG 14.4)

I am the seed giving father. So how you cannot (break) . . . simply fighting, "Oh, I am Hindu and you are Moslem. Your religion is bad, my religion is better." You see? What you have learned from your religion? What is the principal of religion? There is none. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19) that Bhāgavata says.

Simply, religion means the course of God. That is religion. There is no God, God is dead, God is impersonal. What does it mean by the course? That you make your own course? And that is accepted as religion. They bring forward some artificial avatāras and everyone is bluffed. In this way the whole religious principles are being spoiled in the world. So we have to fight against that. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So don't give any credit to any person because he has deviated from the religious principles. Religious principles means to obey the orders of God—that is religion. They do not know what is God or what is the order of God. Even there is no other they do not. They do not obey. They disobey. And still they claim that I am guru. Nobody is perfect.

So our mission is very grave and it should be act sincerly and then we get power from Kṛṣṇa. If we act really as representative of Kṛṣṇa then we will feel His power. So generally we utilize religion as a means of livelihood. That is going on. Eh? That is going on . . . anywhere all over the world, still because the natural tendency, kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha, kṛṣṇa-bhakti (CC Madhya 22.107).

Affection for Kṛṣṇa or God there is everywhere. And, therefore whenever there is some religious talk people gather, people like it. But these leaders, religious leaders they fight, for their livelihood. Therefore it is degraded.

Haṁsadūta: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That they . . . they do not know. They are not bad men. I can understand that old man. He is not a bad man and this, what is called? Bhogaji, vairagi, he also not a bad man. But he's not . . . they are not properly guided. They have learned some hodgepodge. That's all. That is going on everywhere. Just like yesterday two boys came.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And . . . (indistinct) . . . everything. For the last 45 years. (laughter) they are conducting . . . (indistinct) . . . and I tell him . . . (indistinct) . . . that you do not know anything. And they admit it. How they can know? Unless they hear from the representative of Kṛṣṇa they cannot understand. It is not possible. That is going on all over the world . . . and the people say that's nice. Then you are the . . . (indistinct) . . . challenging like that, "Then are you the only representative of Kṛṣṇa's present?" So I said, "Yes." Yes. Because I know because I am sincere representative, representing my Guru Mahārāja. Therefore I am clear representative of Kṛṣṇa. That's all . . . that telling they cannot do . . .

(pause) Now begin. (end)