740316 - Conversation A - Vrndavana
Prabhupāda: ...come with me?
Guest: Yes. when I came with you, I came back once again, and this is the second time.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: That time I stayed four months, and this time I've just arrived again.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So what is your program now?
Guest: Uh, well I came to see Nim Karoli. I didn't know you were in town and I was down the street and I saw Guru dāsa, so I said, I went over and said hello to him.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: And he, he and Yamunā insisted that I come visit you.
Prabhupāda: Nim Karoli, how do you know him?
Guest: Well, you've heard of Richard Alpert? Er, oh, a man called Baba Rāma Dāsa? You know Richard Alpert?
Prabhupāda: Oh, Balarāma, he was here.
Devotee: Baba Rāma, Baba Rāma.
Devotee (2): Baba Rāma Dāsa.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Baba Rāma. (Hindi) [break]
Guest: ...that's the last time I saw you. From time to time I see Baba Rāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have got one hundred and two branches. Mexico City, we have got. I have been there. I forget the name of the street. Very nice center. Indian standard. Mexico City building almost Indian standard.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And people are also almost Indian standard.
Guest: Well, Mexico and India are exactly same, opposite side of the world, like this.
Prabhupāda: Anti-point.
Guest: Yes. And, uh, some, there's a few similarities in the religion, I think, because they have a fearful goddess like Mahā-kālī.
Prabhupāda: Worship Mahā-kālī?
Guest: Like Mahā-kālī, yes, very fearful, you know. She's, er, her head comes from two serpent's heads.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: You know, two serpent's heads are together like this, making her face, and then she wears a skirt of skulls.
Prabhupāda: Oh, skulls.
Guest: Skulls.
Prabhupāda: They're practicing Mahā-kālī.
Guest: Like Mahā-kālī, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is worship. That is (indistinct)?
Guest: Well before, when the Spanish were there.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: Name is Papinque(?).
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: And she's supposed to represent the earth.
Prabhupāda: Your parents live in Mexico City?
Guest: No, not Mexico City. (indistinct) I have relatives in Mexico City. When I was there this summer I went to visit one other Hindu establishment that comes down from Śaṅkarācārya.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Guest: On the street (indistinct). But I didn't know you had a branch in Mexico City at the time.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: They're also vegetarians now.
Prabhupāda: Acchā? In Mexico they are vegetarians?
Guest: Well, no. Most Mexicans are not vegetarians, but this, these people who belong to Śaṅkarācārya sampradāya are vegetarians.
Guru Dāsa: Where's the name "Maya" civilization come from?
Guest: I think it's probably just a coincidence that the name is Maya, more than, you know.... [break]
Guest: How's your health?
Prabhupāda: Health is not very good. I am not (indistinct).
Devotee: It's almost time to go to your.... [break]
Prabhupāda: This we will take more, it will not harm, but the other, if you take little less.... [break] Mexico? No.
Guest: There is good butter.
Prabhupāda: Butter?
Guest: Very good butter. I suppose you could make good ghee out of it. The butter there is, you know, like uh...
Prabhupāda: Are there any flowers there? There are so many flowerstall.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And there in Mexico, in Mexico where I saw "Mahātmā Gandhi (Road?)."
Devotee: That was in Mexico.
Guru dāsa: In Mexico City they have many streets named after famous men.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guru Dāsa: Yeah. Mexico City. Mahātmā Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: There in the city. I saw Mahātmā Gandhi Street.
Guest: Hm, yeah. I can't remember. Maybe. There's.... [break].
Prabhupāda: Just by the side of a flower stand. I was surprised, Mahātmā Gandhi Road. [break]
Guest: From that illness you had when you came to India...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: When you were recovering from your stroke?
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest: I think you looked in better health then.
Prabhupāda: When I was...
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Since then I have no stroke.
Guest: You still have massages every day?
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have massages. One day him, one day Acyutānanda. [break] What philosophy you are following?
Guest: Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Which philosophy you are following?
Guest: Uh, Buddha philosophy, and uh, Vedānta and uh, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. I have a Tibetan teacher now, (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: He also teaches Kṛṣṇa?
Guest: Uh, he teaches uh...
Prabhupāda: Buddha.
Guest: Buddha. Buddhism.
Prabhupāda: So how you will adjust Kṛṣṇa philosophy and Buddha philosophy?
Guest: Well it's just a different uh, approach. But I don't think there's any fundamental difference. I mean if you, if you, uh, have the ultimate consciousness in one, you have it in the other, too.
Prabhupāda: So there is difference. Buddha philosophy does not accept God.
Guest: Yeah. It's a atheistic approach.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: It's a atheistic approach.
Prabhupāda: No soul, no God. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is God, soul, and Vedānta philosophy, that is also God. So Buddha philosophy different from Vedānta philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy.
Guest: The approach is different, yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Guest: The approach is different.
Prabhupāda: Approach? The end is different. Now how you'll adjust Buddha philosophy and Kṛṣṇa philosophy?
Guest: There's a few, uh, paradoxes I..., but uh, anyway, I asked the same key question to uh, to my, uh, Tibetan teacher, and, uh, because he was, he was putting down everybody else and calling everybody else except his philosophy heretics. So then I asked him, I said, "Now this experience that all those different people say that they have achieved, you know," I says, uh, "is it substantially different or not?"
Prabhupāda: Achieved?
Guest: Achieved. You know-attained.
Prabhupāda: Achieved. Oh.
Guest: And uh, then he started to say, "Well if they believe in an external God," or something like that, "then it is heretical." I says, "But nevertheless," I says, "Uh, like in the writings of, say, Meister Eckhart or the different mystics, they all seem to describe their experience in pretty much similar terms." So I said, I asked him, "Does this mean that the experience is different or not?" So then he argued, he finally says.... Well, he didn't say it directly, but what he said is that if, if you want to get the experience of touching something to find out what hot is, he says you may have different motive. Like some people may do it because it's pretty, some out of curiosity or different motive. In other words, he admitted that the experience finally was the same, even though the approach was different.
Prabhupāda: If the approach is different, suppose in the approach is to fire, the approach may be different, but heat or light is there. So why do they approach fire? But if you are approaching something else, how the same experience is there?
Guest: Well...
Prabhupāda: Say we approach fire, then approach may be a different way, but the goal, it is fire, you will experience heat and light.
Guest: Well, approaching means...
Prabhupāda: But if the approach is different, then how you will experience heat and light?
Guest: Yes, but what are we approaching?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: What are we approaching?
Prabhupāda: That you have to explain.
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We say...
Guest: The Absolute.
Prabhupāda: We say approaching Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute. We have got Kṛṣṇa's form, we have Kṛṣṇa's name, we have personal address, His pastime. Just like you know me, I know you, means I have got form, you have got form, I know your qualities, you know my qualities; therefore we know each other. But if the approach is void, then how the approach is the same? There must be something tangible; then the approach is the same.
Guest: Well, I know your philosophy, cause I was very intimately involved with it, but I still believe that if, uh, your uh, you may have a different style, and you may call it Kṛṣṇa consciousness or you may call it nirvāṇa, but I think that ultimately it's, uh...
Prabhupāda: I can, I can explain Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you cannot explain nirvāṇa . That is the difficulty. I can explain my position but you cannot explain your position.
Guest: How is it that I cannot explain my position?
Prabhupāda: Then explain what do you mean by nirvāṇa .
Guest: Well it's the ultimate state of consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Where is nirvāṇa when you do not know the meaning of nirvāṇa ? Nirvāṇa means finished.
Guest: Uh, yes. I think that...
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means everything finished, void.
Guest: Etymologically it means "no wind."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: "No wind."
Prabhupāda: No wind?
Guest: The root of the word, I believe, means "no wind." There's no wind.
Prabhupāda: No. You can derive many meanings, but nirvāṇa means, just like flame is there, extinguished, finished.
Guest: That's not the way I understand nirvāṇa .
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: That's not the way I understand nirvāṇa.
Prabhupāda: But this is the meaning, dictionary meaning, nirvāṇa . Nirvāṇa means there is flame and you extinguish. This is nirvāṇa.
Devotee: You want some more vegetables and purīs?
Prabhupāda: Give him. More, more.
Guest: Not more.
Devotee: Yes.
Guest: If it is an extinguishing, it's only an extinguishing of desire.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: If there's an extinguishing...
Prabhupāda: If desire is extinguished, then what you are?
Guest: But it's not extinguishing of desire; it's transforming of desire. Like this is one...
Prabhupāda: That is not extinguishing.
Guest: Right. But in the sense it is, uh, the uh, flame of, uh...
Prabhupāda: That we say. You don't extinguish desire but we purify desire. That is our... But that is not the void, nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means finished.
Guest: Well, the way, uh, the way it's interpreted, you know, by the people that practice it, is that, uh, you don't extinguish your desires either but they're transformed into the Buddha principles. They say this is the meaning of Mahayana Buddhism, is that you, uh, learn to identify the desire passions with the Buddha principles, and so they become transformed so that...
Prabhupāda: Transformed to what?
Guest: Well, for instance lust is supposed to be transformed into compassion, and the other uh, the other passion desires are transformed to something else.
Prabhupāda: Then it is not nirvāṇa . It is real condition. Then that is our principle. That is not nirvāṇa . Just like...
Guest: Well, this is what I mean by nirvāṇa.
Prabhupāda: You mean, but you the word nirvāṇa . Suppose I take out your eyes. This is one thing. And I...
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?
Devotee: Gopāla wants to see you. [break]
Prabhupāda: Suppose I take out your eyes. That is nirvāṇa. But if there is some disease, I cure it, that is (indistinct). Suppose cataract, cataract operation.
Guest: Well, um, whatever the origin, so the word may be etymologically, the way it's used by the people that I'm studying with and the way I understand the meaning of the word is a little different than meaning just uh, sheer nothingness. Sheer nothingness is supposed to be a misunderstanding of what nirvāṇa means.
Prabhupāda: Now you have to understand as it is in the dictionary.
Guest: Well, as it is used by people. You have to understand it as, as it's used, you know, in uh, by, by the people who are using this word to...
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means, I have already explained, this is the people take, those who know Sanskrit, nirvāṇa means extinguished. Now, you may have different meaning.
Guest: Right. Words change meaning as time goes on.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Words, I mean their root may be one thing, but then as time goes on the, uh, word doesn't remain, uh, the same as used by uh...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you can give your own meaning. What do you mean by nirvāṇa .
Guest: Nirvāṇa is identifying your, uh, ah, passion desires with the innate Buddha principles, in this system.
Prabhupāda: The life symptoms?
Guest: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Symptoms of life?
Guest: In this system.
Prabhupāda: System? What is that system?
Guest: The, uh, Mahayana Buddhism.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So what is that practically?
Guest: The practical result?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: The practical result is, uh.... I don't see it as being far different from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, though the approach may be different.
Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa consciousness is stress is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru BG 18.65 . It is directly always thinking of Kṛṣṇa.
Guest: So that is...
Prabhupāda: To offer obeisances to Kṛṣṇa, to worship Kṛṣṇa, to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest: Buddha is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Buddha is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Buddha is Kṛṣṇa, that I know, but the...
Guest: So that if you...
Prabhupāda: ...those who Buddhist, they do not know. They do not know. We know, but they do not know. Neither they agree to believe.
Guest: So that if you're aware of Buddha, then you're aware...
Prabhupāda: But you should talk from the platform of Buddha. We know the secrecy. Our, our understanding of Buddha, that he is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. But the Buddhists, they do not believe.
Guest: No, they've rejected the Vedas .
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we say.
Guest: But I'm not trying to, uh, to set up, to argue sect against sect.
Prabhupāda: That's not the question. It's a question of philosophy. Here we just say, we know, just like we, we are devotee of Lord Buddha, keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare . We glorify Lord Buddha because we know what is Buddha, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. So we know perfectly that he is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, but those who are cheated by Buddha, from their point of view I want to know what is their perspective.
Guest: Now how, how, how, why would Buddha want to cheat people?
Prabhupāda: Yes, cheated because they did not believe in God. So, but he is God, he is God; therefore he says, "What I say, you believe." That means he is cheating them.
Guest: He didn't say that.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Buddha didn't say that.
Prabhupāda: Then why do you, why do you study Buddha philosophy?
Guest: Well he said, "You study Buddha philosophy to arrive at principles of truth," but what Buddha said...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Buddha philosophy...
Guest: What Buddha said was, he says, "Don't accept anything because I tell it to you. Don't accept anything because it's been believed for a long time by many people in many different places." He says, "Only believe that which you find true for yourself, and that is for your own good and for the good of others."
Prabhupāda: But these are teachings of Buddha.
Guest: Huh, but...
Prabhupāda: But...
Guest: But he's pointing at how to arrive at principles of truth. This, this is, uh, more uh, of an independent approach. He's not uh, I don't think he was trying to cheat anybody but he was trying to...
Prabhupāda: Not that. Cheating this sense, sometimes just so you, I cheat my child. The father is not cheater, but sometimes it is required.
Guest: Cheating, yeah, tells him that forest leaves are made out of gold to keep the child from crying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So the father's cheating is not cheating, but from external point of view it is cheating. You want something, I give something. That is cheating. But that cheating is good for you. When father cheats the child, it is good for the child, but it is cheating. Therefore cheating is not always bad.
Guest: Yes. A great Buddhist saint once said the same thing. He says that "All the scriptures and everything, it means just this, is that it's pretending that forest..."
Prabhupāda: Good, good lessons for...
Guest: "...leaves are made out of gold to keep children from crying," meaning that you have to arrive at truth from your own self, your own understanding. Nobody can, you know, no blind following, as you yourself say. I remember correctly that you used to preach and say, uh, that uh, you shouldn't accept anything blindly.
Prabhupāda: That, in the Bhāgavata it is said, sammohāya sura-dviṣām SB 1.3.24 . Lord Buddha appeared for cheating or bewildering the atheistic person. They do not believe in the (indistinct). They did not, did not believe in God, but God is there. Lord Buddha himself is God. Just like if I say I don't want (indistinct), but you come in a different place. So (indistinct) is there, but I am thinking it is not (indistinct). Similarly, God is there—Buddha—but they are thinking that they don't believe in God. This is cheating. God is there. They are worshiping Lord Buddha exactly as we worship Kṛṣṇa. Then is it not the same? Then how do they say they don't believe in God? They are made to believe in God in a different way. That is cheating, and it is good for them. That is written in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām SB 1.3.24 . [break] They're Australian. (Hindi conversation with another guest about Lakṣmī's position in relation to Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs ) [break]
Guru Dāsa: Like Lord Caitanya, you have also showed him the right way.
Prabhupāda: He is on the line.
Guru Dāsa: What was the discussion about Lakṣmī?
Prabhupāda: He says that Lakṣmī has no entrance in Vṛndāvana. He said that in Brahmā-saṁhitā it says lakṣmī-sahasra, so what is, what are these Lakṣmīs? So gopīs are also Lakṣmīs. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as Lakṣmī. Kṛṣṇa is Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa; therefore His, these girlfriends, they are also Lakṣmīs. Without Him, Lakṣmī, how she can associate with Kṛṣṇa? Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa pratibhāvitabhis [Bs. 5.37] . [break]
Harikeśa: ...communication, the only way of talking to the spiritual master to communicate is verbal talking, the only way in which one can communicate with his spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: No, there are more.... [break] (?) ...instruction of spiritual master, that is actually communicating.
Devotee: Hm. [break]
Harikeśa: ...which I've always been afraid to ask, because I don't know if it's proper, but you being the external manifestation of Supersoul, if we are having questions, doubts, when, in your absence, if we are receiving indications, is there any possible way that someone who is so conditioned can have any understanding of proper action in your absence? In other words, if I am in your absence and I am in great doubt, and I am praying to Supersoul to please save me somehow, if I receive some action which I must do or some course of action becomes obvious, should I trust that, considering that you're communicating with me, or...?
Prabhupāda: That depends on purity. If one has become pure, without any material desire, then that is possible. But if there is some material desire, we cannot expect direct communication.
Harikeśa: So I have much material desire.
Prabhupāda: I do not say you or he. This is the process. This is the process.
Harikeśa: But in the meantime...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: ...until we have reached the pure state...
Prabhupāda: In the meantime it is not possible...
Harikeśa: Not possible.
Prabhupāda: ...directly.
Harikeśa: So we must communicate with you verbally or through letters.
Prabhupāda: Not with spiritual master here. You cannot concoct, "Now I am getting directly." No.
Harikeśa: So the nature of the communication with the spiritual master in our state is only through...
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master... Kṛṣṇa is also spiritual master.
Harikeśa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa sends spiritual master, His representative, as you can appreciate, externally, directly. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is already spiritual master. He could give you instruction from the very beginning. But why He is sending His representative? What is the use?
Harikeśa: We're not able to...
Prabhupāda: Ah, because unless we are completely purified, Kṛṣṇa will, does not talk directly. Therefore you have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.
Harikeśa: So when we are having doubts, the only possible way, no matter what the indications are, are simply follow your instructions in all circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: Right. [break]
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wanted instruction of guru, not directly.
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa's...
Prabhupāda: That, that I was explaining in the morning.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitya-guru. One has to take the order of Kṛṣṇa through the media, via media of spiritual master.
Harikeśa: So all of my activities, unless they are directly following your order, are more or less a concoction of my mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: CC Madhya 13.80 "I am the servant of the servant of." So you have to serve your immediate master, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the Supreme Lord. If you want to jump over the original master, that is not good. Then you will be dismissed like, like my friend.
Harikeśa: Associating with you is so wonderful, and yet...
Prabhupāda: Just like here in Vṛndāvana, I was here, as I am sitting here. I was sitting here in this very place. That was (indistinct). And when I was hungry I could take my food there, same place. So that is one thing. Just like there are many persons, but because my spiritual master wanted, so I, at seventy years old, when I thought, "Now I shall go," I went, to serve the order of my spiritual master. Otherwise I am sitting here in Vṛndāvana. I am old man, I was chanting. Therefore, because that is my first business.
Harikeśa: Were you just waiting to finish your books?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I was just creating the situation how I shall serve my spiritual master.
Harikeśa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Not that I was trying to directly contact Kṛṣṇa. That was not my business. This is required. If anyone wants to contact directly Kṛṣṇa, that is not possible. [break]
Guru dāsa: If there is a devotees who are not yet purified, if the devotee is not yet purified, why is the temple president a representative of you? If we are not at the purified stage, then why is the temple president a representative of yourself?
Prabhupāda: To carry his order. That is purification. If you create your own atmosphere, then you become impure. If you simply carry out the order of your spiritual master, then you will be benefited. If you do your own business, that is not good. You can not do anything which is not ordered by your spiritual master. Of course, everyone should have sense. It is not that we are dull, stone. Unless it is moved, it cannot... You have got moving power. But the basic issue should be to carry out the orders of his spiritual master. That is your president. Otherwise you are not.
Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience of someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience, someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.
Prabhupāda: That you have not to judge.
Harikeśa: Ah.
Prabhupāda: You are not to judge. You should be, you should know that this man is appointed, and he gets here by spiritual process. I must follow. You cannot judge him.
Harikeśa: Oh.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That is not your business, judging.
Harikeśa: Then we simply wait for further instructions from you and keep....
Prabhupāda: No further instructions.
Harikeśa: Ah.
Prabhupāda: So long he is president you must follow him. If he is wrong, that will be corrected by the spiritual master.
Harikeśa: Right.
Prabhupāda: You cannot correct him. Otherwise obedience is the first discipline. If you do not obey the representative, authority, then there cannot be any discipline. Then everything will be topsy-turvy.
Harikeśa: You would rather have us follow the temple president...
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes.
Harikeśa: ...than to...
Prabhupāda: If he is wrong, that cannot... He will come out.
Harikeśa: Ah.
Prabhupāda: So the steps will be taken by the spiritual master. You cannot, do not try to rectify.
Harikeśa: Our advancement is the same?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Harikeśa: Our advancement...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: ...is going on.
Prabhupāda: You follow, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam BG 4.2 , gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ BG 4.2 , servant of the servants of the servant of, then this is our.
Guru dāsa: That's the consideration. Advancement is (indistinct). [break]
Harikeśa: I know I am making mistakes.
Prabhupāda: Why do you preach?
Harikeśa: That's my question.
Prabhupāda: Stop preaching.
Harikeśa: Ah.
Prabhupāda: If you know your mistakes and you're preaching, why this nonsense preaching?
Harikeśa: Preaching must be perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Perfect means as you have heard from your spiritual master. (indistinct) We are not perfect, none of us, but if you perfectly follow the orders of the perfect, then you are perfect. You should not think that "I have become perfect." Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, guru more mūrkha dekhi CC Adi 7.71. He presented Himself as fool number one. So we should always keep ourself as fool number one, that "I am not perfect. I am fool number one." But whatever I am doing I am carrying the orders of the perfect. That is my credit. I am not perfect. Suppose I give you, (indistinct), five thousand dollars. That is not my money. I am not rich man. But the money is paid by somebody else and I deliver, that's all. That is my perfection. If I don't touch it, I do not take from five hundred dollars a paise even, and I deliver it, that is my perfection. I may not be rich man, but if I deliver this amount to you, in perfect order, that is my perfection.
Harikeśa: Sometimes, due to my conditioning, I cannot exactly understand what you are saying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you cannot understand what I am saying, then you should ask repeat. Try to understand (indistinct), that "I cannot understand this, and explain." Put it to the immediate president or any Godbrother. If he still, if he cannot explain, if he feels unable, he can inquire to me. In this way.
Harikeśa: What if I don't know, I haven't understood? What if I think I have understood but I have actually not?
Prabhupāda: There are many things like that. So you should try to understand it fully. Why should you understand it haphazardly? You must try to understand fully. [break]
Harikeśa: ...position to criticize his Godbrothers, no matter what?
Prabhupāda: You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot criticize wrongly. [break]
Devotee: ...instructions rather than our sense gratification? [break]
Prabhupāda: It is not right that he says that. Sense gratification is wrong. You cannot gratify your senses. You have to enjoy your senses in the service of the Lord. That is perfection. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate CC Madhya 19.170 . That is our only business. [break]
Devotee (lady): Thank you. I'm leaving. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...hot.
Devotee (lady): Yes. I'm just to make very hot. [break]
Harikeśa: ...to increase as we become more and more pure?
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got that intelligence, to understand and ... (end)