770628 - Conversation A - Vrndavana
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) [break] ...whether I have a family.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: These Englishmen were very much eager to know the man who is working, whether he's family man, because a family man will never become irresponsible. And this is very, very much visible fact in India. A very poor man, if he's family man, he'll work. It is the family affection. And in economics we have read Marshall's economics. He gives... The economic development takes place by family affection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good observation.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Therefore in India the father-mother takes the responsibility of the son, to make him a family man. Then leave, marry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not a bogus sādhu.
Prabhupāda: Then he... Father-mother knows that he'll take care of his life automatically. And the boy and the girl are not allowed to mix with second girl, second boy. They are kept strictly. And when they're grown up, they're allowed to mix and the affection becomes firm. These are psychology. It is the psychology of woman that before puberty, if she has got a boy, she loves forever. She'll never be unchaste. So these marriage things are done very psychologically, scientifically, so that they may become happy, and then, in peaceful mind, combine together, good cooperation, they make progress, spiritual. This is the plan, varṇāśrama-dharma. Very scientific. And Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that." Whatever Kṛṣṇa shall give-perfect. Nobody cares. They are suffering.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you are introducing again to the world. There is good hope. Young girls in our society, they should be promised to some boy just in the same way, by their parents.
Prabhupāda: And if required, one man can take care of more than one wife because woman population is greater.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And some boys want to remain brahmacārī. So naturally there's fewer men for women.
Prabhupāda: And those who are able, you can keep more than one wife. Just see Kṛṣṇa-sixteen thousand wives. God. That is God. Come on, if there is anyone to compete. Sixteen thousand palaces, sixteen thousands wives, each wife, ten sons. That is God.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one is equal to or greater than Him.
Prabhupāda: All queens are happy. Whatever she desires from husband... Satyabhāmā... And Kṛṣṇa went to the heaven and brought the pārijāta flower to satisfy. This is husband. Wife has asked for something: "All right."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He even had to fight.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is husband's duty. She has dedicated her everything to the husband, and husband must see that she is comfortable. This is husband. She must have children, she must have good house, good eating, good clothing, good ornament. Then she is satisfied. They want these things. A woman does not mind very much, "My husband has got more than one wife." If she gets all the comforts of her wishes, some children and some comforts, then she is... She does not grudge because woman knows man's psychology. A man is not satisfied with one woman. So he must be given that. But she must be chaste. She cannot have more than... Then their relation is all right. If the woman allows husband—"He likes. Let him have more than one woman, but I must be chaste"—this... Our civilization is nowhere, Vedic culture.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the villages in India, is this still going on sometimes. We see in the cities it's not, but in the villages, do they still have more than one wife?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not poor man. Kṣatriyas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, not these...
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not these workers.
Prabhupāda: They cannot maintain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's right. They don't have the land to maintain. You have to have land.
Prabhupāda: You can have more than one wife, but maintain them just like wife. She may not have any complaints that "My husband cannot maintain me."
Śatadhanya: (entering) All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Close that door. How are you?
Śatadhanya: Feeling much better. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...man and woman happy, and in happiness, in peace of mind, make progress, spiritual life. That is the Vedic civilization. The guide is there, brāhmaṇa. The protection is there, kṣatriya. The food is there, vaiśya. And labor is there, śūdra. Combine together, live very happily, peacefully, in the society. You'll find still. The aim is how to realize God. Village to village, you'll find temples.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I saw when going to the bank yesterday. We passed through the bhangi colony, but there was a temple there. They have their temple, even the bhangis.
Prabhupāda: In our childhood we have seen. The bhangis, they carry stool, walk in the morning with stool, so neat and clean. And if you go to the house, you cannot understand that this is a bhangi's house. So neat and clean. And bathing their utensils, their sitting place. After taking thorough bath, sometimes they are worshiping Deity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow!
Prabhupāda: Still you'll find.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?
Prabhupāda: Bhangi. And business is carrying stool.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When they say "untouchables," do they mean those bhangis?
Prabhupāda: They have introduced this word, "untouchable."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But is that the community that they're talking about?
Prabhupāda: Hm hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And still they worship Deity.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There are many devotees, Vaiṣṇava. Hui(?) dāsa, a great Vaiṣṇava.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?
Prabhupāda: A famous Vaiṣṇava, Hui(?) dāsa, he's coming from the bhangis. Everyone is given chance. Socially there may be distinction. Spiritually everyone is given equal chance. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ BG 9.32 . Pāpa-yonayaḥ means these bhangi, cāmāras. And they are not upstart: "Now I have become Vaiṣṇava. Therefore I shall become equal with the brāhmaṇa. " No. He is satisfied with his own... They are cooking. Oh, you'll like to cook, er, eat. I have seen it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They cook nicely.
Prabhupāda: Everything equal. Taking bath, cleansing and worshiping, chanting...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't eat meat?
Prabhupāda: Most of them, they eat, but there are... They do not eat... Not meat. Fish. Meat-eating was introduced by the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: British.
Prabhupāda: ...Britishers. Otherwise, nonvegetarian in India means up to fish. (pause) In Gujarat still you'll find. One young girl... You see here that all young girls are carrying water, collecting. In the morning collecting water, cleansing the house, utensils, clothes, taking bath, then cooking, those girls. Their first business. Man's business is to earn money, go to the market, the necessities. Woman's business is take care of household affairs, children, and they have got engagement. And in the presence of father or elder brother or husband, a woman has to earn livelihood—that's a great insult.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Disgrace. That's disgraceful.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the husband is irresponsible. That means the man is irresponsible, to let his wife do that. And they let their unmarried daughters do.
Prabhupāda: And woman left alone means prostitution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what's going on now in Bombay, Calcutta. The men send their unmarried daughters to become secretary. She must be... And even before that, they go to college, freely mixing with the men.
Prabhupāda: As soon as they allow young girl to mix with young boys—finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This coeducation is very bad.
Prabhupāda: And in the Western countries it is openly allowed, dating. "Please learn this art." (pause) And if you keep woman chaste, then nice children will come, no hippies.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, just like that boy, Dapni, Dapni's(?) grandson. Nice boy.
Prabhupāda: That's it. And if nice children are there in the society, they will become responsible men. Then there will be no disturbance in the society. Everything will go on smoothly. Brāhmaṇa is acting as brāhmaṇa ; kṣatriya is acting as... They are both... No quarrel. No animosity. Everyone is cooperating with one another. The whole society becomes peaceful. Family becomes peaceful. The man personally becomes peaceful. Then he will be able to make progress. Kutaḥ śānti ayuktasya. If you are not peaceful, how you can attain? Or if you are not a devotee, you cannot be peaceful. Or if you are not peaceful, you cannot become devotee. But if you can become devotee, you become peaceful. So I have studied practically. Vedic way of simple life is the best. And unless you adopt the Vedic way of simple life, you'll be implicated, material desires. There is no end. The Western civilization, they are after sense gratification, but there is no limit where it will end. The psychology is that everything new. They are changing—"change, change, change." And there is no limit. Where the sense gratification will be satisfied, this much? Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma. Kāmasya na indriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā BG 18.44 . Na indriya-prītiḥ. We require sense gratification—we have got senses—but not for the matter of sense. Just to live. Just like sleeping—we require bedding. And why shall I be dissatisfied if there is no good bedstead and no silk, silver and, or, and this, that, so...? Within my means, whatever comforts are available, I make satisfaction. Why shall I make competition?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not the purpose of life. It's missing.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the Bhāgavata says, kāmasya na indriya-prītir lābhaḥ, kāmasya lābho jīveta yāvatā. So why they are restless? They do not know the end of life. So what is the end of life? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā na yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. The real business is that "What is Brahman?" If your mind is diverted to brahma-jijñāsā, then naturally these nonsense things, they will be... Therefore Bhāgavata begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā , janmādy asya yataḥ, paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi SB 1.1.1 . The knowledge is there. The process is there. Everything has to be dovetailed. What is that? Dovetailing? So the great sages, brāhmaṇas, they were holding meeting in Naimiṣāraṇya, discussion how people will be happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the duty of the sages.
Prabhupāda: Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ yat kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśnaḥ: SB 1.2.5 "Oh, you have raised the kṛṣṇa-sampraśna? Very, very..." Loka-hitam. Is not the beginning? The rascals has given meaning, munayaḥ ... The whole scheme is how people will be happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sages are living for that purpose.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sages and munis, brāhmaṇas...
Prabhupāda: Everyone. (Bengali) The civilization is... They are also trying loka-hita-kāraṇa, how people will be happy, but in a wrong way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is that who is trying also? Who did you say was also trying?
Prabhupāda: The materialists. They are trying in the society, but in a wrong way. In a wrong way they have taken the hobby of sense gratification. And that will never be satisfied.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause they think that the body is the identity, not the soul.
Prabhupāda: Soul, they do not know what is. There is soul, and there is activity of the soul, soul is the fundamental basis—these rascals, they do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam SB 2.1.2 . They do not know ātma-tattvam. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ SB 2.1.2 . They are increasing thousands and thousands of demands. Why? Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam SB 2.1.2 . They do not see. They do not know what is happiness. Therefore their center is gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where are these verses from, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata. You do not read?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Prahlāda, teachings...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Not Prahlāda. You are... You do not care? Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Find out Second Canto. You should read and write in so many...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to remember the Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Beginning of the Second Canto. Can you read?
Upendra: What was the verse?
Prabhupāda: First of all find out Second Canto, Second Canto, first chapter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Second Canto, first chapter.
Upendra: Second Canto, first chapter.
Prabhupāda: Can you read?
Upendra: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya: "O my Lord, the all-pervading Personality of Godhead, I offer my respectful obeisances unto You." Next śloka?
śrī-śuka uvāca
varīyān eṣa te praśnaḥ
kṛto loka-hitaṁ nṛpa
ātmavit-sammataḥ puṁsāṁ
śrotavyādiṣu yaḥ paraḥ
SB 2.1.1
"Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, My dear king, your question is glorious because it is very beneficial to all kinds of people. To hear the answer to this question is the prime subject matter of hearing, and it is approved by all transcendentalists."
śrotavyādīni rājendra
nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ
apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ
gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām
SB 2.1.2
"Those persons who are materially engrossed, being blind to the knowledge of ultimate truth, have many things as subject matter for hearing in the human society, O emperor."
Prabhupāda: Just like our men. Little advanced, they have no more interest with hearing newspaper, ordinary sex novel. This is for the rascals. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam SB 2.1.2 . We are interested in Bhāgavata. That's all. You can read. Go on.
Upendra:
nidrayā hriyate naktaṁ
vyavāyena ca vā vayaḥ
divā cārthehayā rājan
kuṭumba-bharaṇena vā
SB 2.1.3
"The life span of such envious householders is passed at night either in sleeping or in sex indulgence, and in the daytime either in making money or in maintaining family members."
Prabhupāda: So this business...
Śatadhanya: They waste all the time.
Upendra:
dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv
ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api
teṣāṁ pramatto nidhanaṁ
paśyann api na paśyati
SB 2.1.4
"Persons devoid of ātma-tattva do not inquire into the problems of life, being too attached to the fallible soldiers like the body, children, wife, etc. Although sufficiently experienced, still they do not see their inevitable destruction."
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
<PS:First><BP:0> Upendra: This material world is called the world of death. Every living being, beginning from Brahmā, whose duration of life is some thousands of millions of years, down to the germs who live for a few seconds only, is struggling for existence. Therefore, this life is a sort of fight with material nature, which imposes death upon all. In the human form of life, a living being is competent enough to come to an understanding of this great struggle for existence, but being too attached to family members, society, country, etc., he wants to win over the invincible material nature by the aid of bodily strength, children, wife, relatives, etc. Although he is sufficiently experienced in the matter by dint of past experience and previous examples of his deceased predecessors, he does not see that the so-called fighting soldiers like the children, relatives, society members and countrymen are all fallible in the great struggle. One should examine the fact that his father or his father's father has already died, and that he himself is therefore also sure to die, and similarly, his children, who are the would-be fathers of their children, will also die in due course. No one will survive in this struggle with material nature. The history of human society definitely proves it, yet the foolish people still suggest that in the future they will be able to live perpetually, with the help of material science. This poor fund of knowledge exhibited by human society is certainly misleading, and it is all due to ignoring the constitution of the living soul. This material world exists only as a dream, due to our attachment to it. Otherwise, the living soul is always different from the material nature. The great ocean of material nature is tossing with the waves of time, and the so-called living conditions are something like foaming bubbles, which appear before us as bodily self, wife, children, society, countrymen, etc. Due to a lack of knowledge of self, we become victimized by the force of ignorance and thus spoil the valuable energy of human life in a vain search after permanent living conditions, which are impossible in this material world.
<PS:Purport>Our friends, relatives and so-called wives and children are not only fallible, but also bewildered by the outward glamor of material existence. As such, they cannot save us. Still we think that we are safe within the orbit of family, society or country.
<PS:Purport>The whole materialistic advancement of human civilization is like the decoration of a dead body. Everyone is a dead body flapping only for a few days, and yet all the energy of human life is being wasted in the decoration of this dead body. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is pointing out the duty of the human being after showing the actual position of bewildered human activities. Persons who are devoid of the knowledge of ātma-tattva are misguided, but those who are devotees of the Lord and have perfect realization of transcendental knowledge are not bewildered.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I become surprised how I have written this. Although I am the writer, still sometimes I am surprised how these things have come. Such vivid description. Where is such literature throughout the whole world? It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Every line is perfect.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The purports are as nice as the ślokas.
Prabhupāda: It is explained in this way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it's 7:30 now. [break]
Prabhupāda: I have not done it, but I have seen it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You learned everything by seeing. You said that you learned how to cook by watching your mother.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I used to cook.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, for your family?
Prabhupāda: Our family men. I asked my mother, "I'll do this, that." They'll allow, "All right."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that sometimes you would be walking in the footpath, and you would watch those men cook their...
Prabhupāda: Not cook. Somebody's doing some artistic work. I'll stand. I'll see how they are doing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Artistic?
Prabhupāda: Just like knitting. So I'll learning knitting by standing before. They're making some flower of wool, so I'll learn it, and it will come out. That was my hobby. And similarly I learned how to worship Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By watching. You watched your father?
Prabhupāda: Father and the Mullik's Thakurbhari. "I'll do." I'll ask my father, "Give me Deity. I shall worship." "Yes, take Deity."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How old were you when you got your Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity?
Prabhupāda: About six, seven years old.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Was it very elaborate worship?
Prabhupāda: Not elaborate. But I'll decorate. I'll keep it in a place. Whatever I eat, I offered. I imitate, ghee lamp, ārati.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Putting to rest.
Prabhupāda: There was engagement in a small corner of the room.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then Ratha-yātrā. Sounds like a very pleasant childhood.
Prabhupāda: Yes. My father's friends, the Mulliks, they used to criticize my..., "Oh, you are holding Ratha-yātrā festival, and you are not inviting us."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You didn't invite them?
Prabhupāda: It is childish play. Where is invitation? So my father, the children, they were playing. "Oh, by the name of children you are avoiding us." It was like that. But the festival was going on. We called the professional kīrtanīyas. They performed kīrtana. There will be procession of my small children friends.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Miniature Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: Hm. A small ratha the father give. The height, about this, made of nice, strong wood.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the boys would pull it?
Prabhupāda: Everything small scale.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Small pullers also.
Prabhupāda: Eight days, eight kind of varieties of prasādam, my mother will prepare.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She would take part by preparing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And now... Whether the... Make very nice bannerjee (?). Formerly people were engaged in these things. There was another Mullik family, Rajen..., Raja Rajendra. He was distributing jagannātha-prasāda, daily, two thousand portions.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which Mullik?
Prabhupāda: Raja Rajendranath Mullik. He was also holding very big festival, Ratha-yātrā. So we had the opportunity of seeing once.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must have been dreaming about Purī Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whenever I would find some time, I would consult timetable, "How to go to Purī and Vṛndāvana? What is the fare?" At that time carriage(?) was three rupees. I think it was four rupees, one anna. And Vṛndāvana was six rupees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had some money saved up?
Prabhupāda: Yes, with my father.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that your grandmother would give you one gold coin each year.
Prabhupāda: Not gold coin. This copper coin, looking like gold.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you'd keep it banked with your mother, and if she ever was angry with you, you threatened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Bring my money." The society was so nice, and everyone was happy, everyone. These Marwaris, especially, they are very good community. They... As family people, they know how to earn, how to become happy by family. I like these Marwaris.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they also feel at home...
Prabhupāda: They're vegetarian.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Sometimes I would visit Dalmiya-ji in his home. I was so amazed to see how happy his family life is. They have no...
Prabhupāda: Marwaris, they do know how to earn money, how to save money, how to become happier man. The worship is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they always have the temple in their homes. The women are engaged.
Prabhupāda: And they make general houses in such a way that you get a room and there is everything, arrangement. There is howah(?). You don't require to cook. You take food from the howah(?). Very nice food. You pay just like a small hotel. They... All their business family... You see. You have seen Calcutta Birla house.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah.
Prabhupāda: They occupy only one room. Their everything is like that. Pay for. There is no botheration of cooking or purchasing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean, different families occupy one room only?
Prabhupāda: Well, different family, different room, but they can live very humbly. Those who have little income, they'll somehow or other take one room, live in. And in that house, everything is there. You can purchase. And you earn money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes you see a very wealthy may living in only two, three rooms with his whole family.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And generally one room. Otherwise two rooms—one stock room, one sleeping room. They live very economically and save money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Frugal.
Prabhupāda: Frugal, yes. And when there is enough money, they construct their own house. Then they live very luxuriously. In the beginning, no.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. And they'll work sixteen hours sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As much as possible. Very hard-working.
Śatadhanya: And their sons also work with them.
Prabhupāda: And whatever money saved, they purchase ornament. They don't deposit in the bank.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. That's one of their things.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is Indian style. To save money means purchase ornament.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purchasing one ornament.
Prabhupāda: Ornament for the wife.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That could be...
Prabhupāda: Because she likes ornament, gold, and they have got molten(?) in the jewelry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you get the money back? Sell it?
Prabhupāda: Hm? There is no question. It is saving. Suppose you want two hundred rupees. After spending, if there is three hundred rupees, invest hundred rupees in ornament.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do you save enough money to get the house if you have all ornaments?
Prabhupāda: You keep it. Don't deposit in bank.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't trust this banking system.
Prabhupāda: No, formerly there was no bank practically. Now they... Generally, ordinary man, whatever little saving is there, they will invest in metal utensils, in ornament, in Benarsi sari, like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Benarsi sari also considered very valuable.
Prabhupāda: It is golden, gold border. You can... When you want to..., mean an old Benarsi sari ..., you can go. There are persons, they'll take it, and they'll burn it, and the borders will take care, either silver or gold. Still in Delhi we find. Any investment were... Not this plastic plate and paper plate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Whenever they buy something, it must have value.
Prabhupāda: Must have value. That is Indian investment.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the opposite of the Western.
Prabhupāda: And whatever you manufacture, you can show back. Suppose this tape recorder. If it is working, it has value. What is the use of it? Who cares for you? If it is in working order, it has value. Otherwise, (taps microphone) who cares for it? But if you have got gold, silver, metal... There was a small banker's. You require... I am poor man. I require only two rupees, but I have no money. You take one utensil and go to a small banker. He will keep this pot. "Give me two rupees." The pot is only five rupees' worth, so he'll keep it. He'll give you two rupees. So your immediate necessity is... This way, Indian economics.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've noticed that the people in the villages, when they come to fetch water, they have very nice pots. The ladies are wearing some bracelets. Gold, I think, it must be.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even the village.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find description in Bhāgavata. They were coming to congratulate Kṛṣṇa—so nice dress, so nice ornament, so nice foodstuff made of ghee, grains in our...
Śatadhanya: Sometimes the rich Marwari ladies, when they come to Māyāpura, once in a while they give some ornament to the Deity. They'll give one ring or one bracelet, gold.
Prabhupāda: That was always. They would offer some ornament to the Deity.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there's the example...
Prabhupāda: That Sākṣī-Gopāla. The queen wanted to give her nose pearl. Very happy spiritual society.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you are developing that all over the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I have thought it over, over. It was very, very nice. What is this nonsense society? Tin car?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they're becoming worse...
Prabhupāda: And rubber tire, that's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cars nowadays...
Prabhupāda: Cannister, tin cannister. In your country these have been all piled up.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cars.
Prabhupāda: Whole cars, useless, piled up. But then they are smashed and again melted and again crushed.
Śatadhanya: They build them so that in one year, two years, they break. Then they can sell more.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no other business. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām SB 7.5.30 . Chewing the chewed. Make a car, break it, and again melt it and again make another car. That's all. This is their civilization, car-making civilization. No spiritual idea, no ambition for spiritual life. But they'll do. They'll do something. So therefore they are making, breaking more. Make the car; break the car; again make the car; again break the car. Therefore you are habituated to change.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If something is nice, it must be destroyed.
Prabhupāda: No, it has... Everything is destroyed, material. (end)