750821 - Conversation - Bombay
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
(Conversation with Lalita Bose)
Prabhupāda: Ekta katha bale, esob bhalo katha, ta ami . . . (indistinct) . . . amar lok gulo . . . (indistinct) . . . ar eta amra practically dekhacchi. Ei jinishta . . . or amader support kara ucit, ar unio yodi bojhen, tahole Bharater upakar hobe, ar kichu na. Eta ami niscit. Eita kono bogus jinish na. Eta hocche, (Tells one thing, this is good, but I . . . (indistinct) . . . my people are . . . (indistinct) . . . and we are practically showing this. This thing is . . . we should support this, and if he understands this, then India will be benefited, that's it. I am sure about this. This is not a bogus thing. This is,) exactly what Kṛṣṇa has said. Our mission . . . amader anya kono mission nai, Caitanya Mahaprabhu bolchen, (we don't have any other mission, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu is saying,) Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bās. If you speak what Kṛṣṇa has instructed, you become guru. But if you make your own concoction, own invention, then . . . amader yetuku success hoyeche, oi janye. (as much we got success, that is the reason.) I don't speak any nonsense, except the instruction given in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is my credit. That's all. People say that I have done wonderful, but I do not know any magic. The wonderful thing I have done is that I don't speak any nonsense thing. Eta ami confess kori. (I confess this.)
Lalita Bose: What you say, you act according to that.
Prabhupāda: No, what I learn from Kṛṣṇa I say. I don't say independently. That is not my business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. (break) How? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You deliver your village people and become a guru. Everyone is not going to be so big that he can go all over the world. But everyone can teach within his limit—within his family, within his community, within his village, within his town, within his district. As he is capable, he can increase. But everyone can become a guru and deliver the local people. How? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. Then you are guru. As soon as you manufacture anything nonsense, then it is spoiled. That is going on. So many gurus are there, they are manufacturing. They are becoming Kṛṣṇa. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. You cannot become Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Bhagavān sakaler hṛdaye biraj man, (God is present into the heart of every living being) . . . (break) Can you stay in everyone's heart? You are claiming God.
This one instance, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛdeśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. He is aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ (Bs. 5.35). He is within this universe, and He is within the atom. You are claiming to be īśvara, God. Are you within the atom? Are you within your heart . . . er, everyone's heart? Then how do you claim that you are īśvara? Practical. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ. Īśvara, God, God is everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ (BG 15.15). Ta ei . . . ei sob katha janbar ache, sekhbar ache, bastabik amra yodi amader, (So this . . . all these we have to know, we have to learn, if we really our,) basis of Bhagavad-gītā . . . amader jibonke tairi kori, ebong loker jibon ke sei rakam tairi kore, tahole sob jinis to bhalo hoye yay. ( . . . if we made our life, and other people also made their life, then everything will be right.) And as soon as you manufacture something, then it is spoiled. Eita amra roj roj boli. (We repeat it daily.) That is going on. The so-called gurus, they get some mystic power, yoga-siddhi, and they show it and they mislead people that he is God. That is the difficulty. We never said . . . where is that book? Ekta boi beriyeche 'Gurus'. (A book has been released named Gurus.) Again he has to go? Tate amar katha diyeche, sobar katha diyeche. Callish taka boi er dam, bikri korche. Ta anya loker sob bisay ache, yakhan janme chilen ekta light hoyechilo, peter bhetare ekta light hoyechilo, ar ei miracle koreche, ei sob katha ache. Ar amar bisaye tara diyeche, ami ekta choto cheleke hat dhare lekhacchi a' likho, ā' likho. Ei amar miracle. Oi sob katha kichu nei amar, ye yakhan ami janme chilam ekta masta baro light hoyechilo, ar omuk hoyechilo, tamuk hoyechilo. (So they have written about me on that, also written for others. They are selling that book at forty rupees, so they have written about others like, "When they have taken birth, there was a light, light was also into the belly, and they have done these miracles—these are written there. And about me they have written that, I am teaching a child by taking his hand how to write a' and ā". These are my miracles. Those are not written about me that is, when I taken birth there was a big light, this happened, that happened.) So far as I am concerned, these things are not there. About me, I am . . . in Dallas I am taking one child's hand and I am teaching them how to write a, ā. Esob miracle niye ki kaj hobe? Esob magic, miracle niye kono kaj hobe na. (What will happen by this miracle? There will be nothing with this magic, miracle.)
Lalita Bose: Beshi din cole na. (Not last for long.)
Prabhupāda: Na, ogulo kichu noy. Ogulo kichu noy. Knowledge . . . knowledge kichu nai, ek khana boi likhte pare na. Ki likhbe janena kichu. Janle to likhbe! Amra fifty books likhechi. Ekhono likhchi, ei dicta-phone royeche. Ar yara porche. (No, those are nothing. Those are nothing. Knowledge . . . there is nothing knowledgeable, they can't write books. What will they write, they don't know anything. How they can write without knowing. We have written 50 books. Still writing, here is the dicta-phone. And those who are reading.) Where is that professors . . .?
Brahmānanda: Professor . . .
Prabhupāda: No, all these professors. Those who are purchasing our books.
Brahmānanda: Oh, the recommendations?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Baro adorer sahit nicche. (They are taking this with great affection.) University professors, learned scholars. Tara bolche, ei jinishta ekbare chilo na, Indiar baire jinishtai chilo na. Ta na hole amader bish lakh takar boi thik bikr hoy kise? (They are saying, this thing was not presented before, this thing was not present outside of India. Otherwise how the books of twenty lakhs rupees can be sold?)
Lalita Bose: Accha Maharaj, ekta jinish ora bolchilen ye, publishing yeta . . . (Mahārāja, one thing they were saying that is, the publishing . . .)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lalita Bose: Apnar yeta boi publishing, seta yodi India te kora yay, seta khub easy, ar yeta apnar world market royeche. (If you publish your book from India, that would be easy than your world market.)
Prabhupāda: Na, dekhen India te yai quotation nebo, tin double dam cabe. (See, whatever I buy from India they will charge three times extra.)
Lalita Bose: Na, seta ora bollo ye, ISKCON publishers . . . (No, they were saying that, the ISKCON publishers . . .)
Prabhupāda: Na, na, na, publisher . . . amader se sob machine kothay? Ekhon sob ye sob mechine colche na, ek din er madhye bish hajar boi chapiye debe. Se machine kothay? Amra tabuo . . . (No, no, no, the publisher . . . where are all our machines? The machines which are running nowadays, those are capable to print 20,000 copies of books in a single day. But where can we get that machine? Still we are . . .) but We have equipped our composing . . . we compose and send to the press. You know something about our Los Angeles arrangement?
Harikeśa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the worth of all those machines?
Harikeśa: Oh, the composer itself is worth about seventy-five thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: Seventy-five thousand dollars diye amra sob machine kinechi. (We have bought those machines by spending seventy-five thousand dollars.) Seventy-five thousand dollars.
Harikeśa: That's just one machine . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Amader, karya sammandhe, New Vrindaban ye amra korechi, eikhanei article beriyechilo. Last year Novembere. Kiram . . . khub sundar likheche. Ar heading diyeche, "America me naya Vrndavan, yaha adhatmik tatha, adhyatma ki yamuna or dud, dahi ki nadi baheti hen (Hindi)", eisob amra korchi, tumi to hindi jano. (An article was published on our New Vrndavana work. Last year in November. How . . . they have written well. And the heading was, "New Vrndavana in America, where spirituality and the spiritual river of Yamuna, river of Milk and Curd flows", this is what we are doing, you know Hindi?)
Lalita Bose: Na, porte janina, bolte pari. (No, I can't read but speak.)
Prabhupāda: Eito, sob likheche. Amader Radhakrsna murti diyeche, ei far editorial page diyeche. Oder desher lokera khub sukshati korche. Eder desher priest ra korche. Anya lok sob ache . . . (Here, they have written everything. They have given a picture of our Radha Kṛṣṇa deities, and given also a editor page. People of their country praising a lot. Priest of their country also praising. And other people also . . .)
Lalita Bose: Accha, ei boier ki copy ache apnar? (do you have copy of this book?)
Prabhupāda: Na. (No.)
Lalita Bose: Nei na! (No don't?)
Prabhupāda: Ei amaderi . . . (These our . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ami Prime Minister ke yabo . . . yedin niye yabo, seita sudhu dekhabo. (When I visit with the Prime Minister, I will show only that.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, hya. (Yes, yes.)
Lalita Bose: Tomar anya, (Your other,) Gurudeva's remarks about their remarks. And of his . . .
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: August 24th and 31st issue of . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Ei amar. (About me.) "Śrīla Prabhupāda instructs a young American student in Sanskrit at the Gurukula." Ami pratham, pratham eta dekhlam, eder sob sekhabo erokom kore. Ei amar lila. Ekti choto cheleke haat dhore Sanskrit ki kore porte hoy sekhacchi. (First I was observing, how I can teach them. This is my pastime. Teaching a little boy that, "How to read Sanskrit by holding his hand.") This is my miracle.
Lalita Bose: You are changing, actually, transforming.
Prabhupāda: Ar ei sob miracle dekhacche, ek lok. Ei ye Rajneesh langto hoye nacche. (And they are showing this miracle, this person Rajneesh dancing naked.)
Lalita Bose: Oi ye, Rajneesh. (Yes that Rajneesh.)
Prabhupāda: Ei holo guru. Era holo guru. (This is the master. These are the masters.)
Lalita Bose: Svami Babao royeche dekhchi. (I can see Swami Baba is also here.)
Prabhupāda: Ta eisob bujruki to amra korina. Amra siksha di. Ar ei amader sob . . . (We don't cheat like this. We teach, and all these are our's . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ami sudhu apnake ekta ie . . . bolbo, ekhane grame grame . . . eta ami Bhavanananda Maharaj ke bollam ye, ami antata lege pori gram gulo te. (I want to tell you just one thing, I have said to Bhavananda Mahārāja that is, at least I go to preach from village to village.)
Prabhupāda: Hya . . . (Yes . . .)
Lalita Bose: . . . bujhlen . . . amar source ache Guru Maharaj. Ami o Krsna bhakta . . . (are you getting . . . Guru Mahārāja I also have a source. I am also a Kṛṣṇa's devote . . .)
Prabhupāda: Sei to bolchi . . . (That's I was saying . . .)
Lalita Bose: Bujhlen . . . ami baire theke onek kaj korte pari. (Are you getting . . . I can do lots of seva from outside.)
Prabhupāda: Tomar thakurma sunechi, khub vaisnava chilo. (I heard that your grandmother was a great Vaisanavi.)
Lalita Bose: Bhison. (Yes, very much.)
Prabhupāda: Ami jani. (I know.)
Lalita Bose: Amar thakurma . . . (My grandmother . . .)
Prabhupāda: Amader Gaudiya Mathe asten . . . (She use to come our Gaudiya Matha . . .)
Lalita Bose: . . . ye mandir chilo Katake janen . . . ( . . . you know that temple which was in Katak . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hmm . . .
Lalita Bose: Amar janmer ekta ghatana ache. Amar maa ke bolechilen ye, sob natnira sangsari hok, kintu yakhan amar maa-r pete ami asi takhan . . . or special gari chilo, (I have a story of my birth. She has told my mother that is, let all her grand daughter be mundane, but when I have come to the abdomen of my mother . . . she has a special car,) she has to go to the temple, take the prasāda, serve to . . . tarpare yakhan ami janmai ta cehara ta Radharanir Lalita sakhi kar sange chilo janina, uni amar nam ta Lalita sakhi . . . (after that when I have taken birth, my face was looking like Lalita sakhi of Radharani or anyone I don't know, so she keeps my name as Lalita sakhi . . .)
Prabhupāda: Oh, thakur maa-i diyeche? (Oh, your grandmother has given this name?)
Lalita Bose: Hya, tarpar maa bollen, tumi Maharaj ji ke bolo, karon amra Puri te, uni chilen yakhan amra yetam. (Yes, and after that my mother told to tell this Mahārāja, because we use to go Puri when she was alive.)
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Lalita Bose: Apni purite chilen ki, Gaudiya Mathe kono samay? Ki Katake? (Have you ever been to Puri at any Gaudya Matha? Or in Katak?)
Prabhupāda: Katake chilam. (I have been in Katak.)
Lalita Bose: Accha! Katake chilen. Mane amar thakurdada bodh hoy apni cenen, bodh hoy. (All right, so you have been in Katak. So you may know my grandfather, I guess.)
Prabhupāda: Hm. Thakur da ke jantam. Kartik Bose tomader . . . (Yes, I know your grandfather. Kartik Bose is also your . . .)
Lalita Bose: Oto amaderi relatione . . . (He is our relative . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya tomader relative. To tomar thakur dada Kartik Bose er kache asten. (Yes he was your relative. Your grandfather use to come to Kartik Bose's place.)
Lalita Bose: Cokh dekhate. (For check up of his eyes.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, to sei samay te amra jani, Janaki Bose, Kartik Bose tara ek familyr lok. Ami Kartik Boser laboratory te manager chilam. (Yes, and from that time we know Janaki Bose, Kartik Bose they are belong to same family. I was the manager of Kartik Bose's laboratory.)
Lalita Bose: Hya, bolechilen. (Yes, you have told already.)
Prabhupāda: Manager chilam. Okeo ami babar maton . . . amar babar khub bandhu Kartik Bose. Tai tomar thakur dada, amar baba sob ek bayesi sob. Tomra to amader meyer bayesi! Ar tomar thakur dada amader babar bayesi. Ta se Kartik Bose er kache uni asten, ami jantum, ar uni yakhan Katake chilen, amader Gaudiya Mathe, tomar thakur maa, ar thakur dada chilen sob. Se ami jani sob. (I was a manager. I also respecting him as my father . . . Kartik Bose was so dear friend of my father. So your grandfather, my father were same age. You are my daughter age! And your grandfather was our father's age. So he used to come to Kartik Bose, I know this, and when he was in Katak, in our Gaudiya Matha, then your grandmother and grandfather were also there. I know all this.)
Lalita Bose: Na, apnar asirvad ni . . . karan eiye ami dekhlam na Mayapure apurba. Tarpar Vrndavane ye mandir sekhaneto othar . . . othbar kono upay nei. Ar ekhane samasta judge fodge, eschen era bolchen ye ei Vrndavane amra giye dekhlam, yeman Hare Krsna mandire ye puja ta hoy, sob ceye srestha. (Let me take your blessings . . . because I have seen the Māyāpur that is amazing. In Vṛndāvana's temple there is no such a way to get into the temple. And here all the judges who has come they were telling that, we have visited Vṛndāvana and we seen the worshiping which was going on—in the Hare Kṛṣṇa temple. That is best among all.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, eta sakali bolche. Abar bolche ye Thakur katha koiche. Sakali bolche . . . (Yes, everyone was saying this. They were also telling that the Lord is talking here. Everyone is saying . . .)
Lalita Bose: Bolche ye Guru Maharajke bolen ye, eirakam mandir yena . . . (indistinct) . . . sob collection korle hobe . . . (They are telling that, ask the Guru Mahārāja to make this type of temple . . . (indistinct) . . . have to collect everything . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya sob jaygay . . . (Yes everywhere . . .)
Lalita Bose: Na hobar to kichu nei. (There is nothing wrong with that.) They are so impressed, the way they are putting the śaṇkha and then, you know, ārati . . .
Prabhupāda: Eisob oder shikhiyechi. (All these I taught them.)
Lalita Bose: Hya. Apurba! Bolche ye, erokom mandir to amra dekhini. (Yes. Wonderful! They are saying that we didn't see such a temple before.)
Prabhupāda: Ei sob, yato America, Europe mahadeshe sob oi ek style colche. (America, Europe in all these countries, same style worshiping is going on.)
Lalita Bose: Apni sudhu amay ashirbad korun. Ar Indrira jir bhison icche yeta hocche, village . . . Maharaj ke bole . . . ye village unnayan yeta. (You just bless me. And Indriraji has a wish that is, in village . . . by telling Mahārāja . . . developing the village.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, khub . . . (Yes, very . . .)
Lalita Bose: Government samasta taka debe, ebong . . . (The government will give all the money, and . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ekhoni . . . (Right now . . .)
Lalita Bose: . . . sincere. Sincere devotee, darkar. (needed.)
Prabhupāda: Sincere devotee. Amra to ei . . . amder ektu facility nei . . . eder ke tarai tarai korle . . . (indistinct) . . . kaj korte pare na. (We are . . . we don't have facility . . . if I ask them to do hurry . . . (indistinct) . . . they can't do.)
Lalita Bose: Sunun, Promananda Reddy sather dekha korlam, uni bollen Guru Maharaj ke amar kache eschilen, ekhon janen to . . . ami tao bolechi ye . . . ei samasta ami diye eschi. Ar amito Netaji mission korechi yeta, ye . . . (Listen, I have met with Promananda Reddy, so he said that, Guru v has come to me, you see . . . I told him that is . . . all these I have given. And as I am a member of Netaji mission which, that is . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ekta . . . ekta amar prathana hocche, ei ye . . . at least eder modhye hundred men come . . . era ek paisa Indiar khabe na. Ami account dekhiye debo ye, baire theke taka ene era khacche. Ar era kono politics er dhar dhare na. Ki eder korche eder yete hobe? Keno? Eta ki, eta bicar? Era ek paisa Indiar nebe na, barong debe. Indiar ek paisa khabe na. Eraki khabar jonye . . . (One thing . . . I wish only one thing, that is . . . let at least hundred men come among of them . . . they won't take a penny from India. I can show you the account that they are bringing money from outside and eating by that. They are not interested in politics. What have they done that they need to return? Why? What is this? Is this the real justice? They won't take a single penny from India, rather they will give. They won't take a single penny from India. Are they coming here to eat . . .)
Lalita Bose: Era yebhabe kaj korbe . . . age ami boleni . . . (As they will do their work . . . let me say first . . .)
Prabhupāda: Na na, eraki khabar jonye amar sange esche? (No no, have they come with me for eating?)
Lalita Bose: Na. (No.)
Prabhupāda: Na, Indiar cycle ki kore manufacture hocche, ebar selai machine ki kore hocche, eisob nakal korbar jonye esche? Eder desher industries er abhab ache naki! Kiser abhab ache? Era eseche Bhagavad bhakti sekhbar janye, ar eder ke Inidia tariye debe, eta khub bhalo byabahar hocche na. (Or, did they come to imitate how the Indian cycle is being manufactured, how the sewing machine is being made? Is there a lack of industry in their country! What scarcity do they have? They have come to learn the Bhagavata bhakti, and India will drive them out, this is not a good behavior towards them.) They have nothing to do with the politics. Amra sakale jagatke united korte cacchi . . . (indistinct) . . . Krsna Consciousness eta united nation eibhabe hoyeche. Ei bish pacis bachor dhore pratidin kaj korche, ki kaj hocche? Kebol flag barche ar larai hocche, Pakistani, Hindustani o . . . (indistinct) . . . this,that. Ki hoyeche tate? Rubbish. Hote parena. (All of us want to united the whole world . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa Consciousness has been a made a united nation by this. Since 20 to 25 years they are continuously working, what they have done? Only flag is raising, Pakistani, he is Hindustani . . . (indistinct) . . . this, that. What happen by those?) Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Lalita Bose: (indistinct) . . . setai bollam ye, (that is what I said,) the project will be failure.
Prabhupāda: Eta besh bhalo kore bojhan ye, eta korle sob . . . khub bhalo kaj hobe. Amake ei conception ta deoa hok, ar ami village organize er janye yodi co-operation koren dekhiye debo ki kore korte hoy. Camatkar dekhiye debo. Yeman eta ekta camatakar, yeta dekhcho, sara prthibite Hare Krsna nam characche, ami India te camatkar dekhiye debo ye, ki kore village organization korte hoy . . . erom kore debo village. (Make her understand nicely that is, if she does this then that will be great work. Just give me this conception, and if you co-operate with me to organize the village then I will show how to organize a village. I will show miracle. As this is a miracle, which you are watching now, the Hare Kṛṣṇa nama is spreading all over the world, so I will show a miracle India that is, how to organize the village . . . I will make the village like this.)
Lalita Bose: Eder khali . . . hundred apni cacchen devotees. (So they only . . . hundred devotees you are asking.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, beshi cacchi na. Ar era yodi kono politicse haat dey, kono yodi biruddhye . . . dekha yacche, era kono oi . . . (indistinct) . . . esob kaje haat diyeche, takhoni cole yabe. Eta hobe na ami jani, karon amito eder tairi korechi. Era osob tuccha mone kore. Kukur, sial er jagra. Esob bisaye amader kono dhyan nei. Amra caichi ye kukuratta ta ki kore muche yay. Kato guno kukur ke ene, tader instruction dile, 'baba peacefully thako' e kakhono hoy naki? (Yes, not asking for more. And if they interfere in politics, or against something . . . if I notice something that they are within any . . . (indistinct) . . . if they interfere into this type of work, immediately they will return. This won't happen, because I have made them. They think all these are insignificant. The fighting of Dogs and foxes. We don't have any interest in this. We are wanting to fade out the doghood. After bringing many dogs and by giving instructions like, 'dear, all of you please live peacefully', what can it be?)
Lalita Bose: Seita apnar asirvad korun. Project gulo suru kora yak. (You have to bless that. Let the project be started.)
Prabhupāda: Hya . . . (Yes . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ebong government, ye guno dicche. Three-forth government dicche, ek ekta village . . . (And the things which the government is providing. The government is giving a third of four, for each village . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ami emon kore debo . . . (I will do such thing . . .)
Lalita Bose: Seta eder yodi ek-ekta . . . (If they one . . .)
Prabhupāda: Emon kore debo, (I will do such thing that,) India has not . . . I like this position, dictatorship. Personally I like this. Onek bar bolechi. (I told many times.)
Lalita Bose: Apni seta bolben. (You have to say this.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, ami bolechi. Amake Americate . . . (indistinct) . . . jijnes korlo ye, (Yes, I told. Once they asked me . . . (indistinct) . . . in America that is,) "What is your opinion about this?" Must criti . . . yes, criticized policy of Indira Gandhi.
Lalita Bose: Seta apni bolben ye, okhane amay prosna korechilo. (That you have to tell that is, they have asked me there.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, abar kagaje beriyeche. Kagaje beriyeche. Ami bolechi . . . ami bolechi ye, ei (Yes, that was published on news paper. I told . . . I told that is, this) Indira Gandhi spiritually inclined. If she improves, it will be perfect. She wants to be improved.
Lalita Bose: This should be taken with . . .
Prabhupāda: Hya, (Yes I . . .)
Bhavananda: A most important piece of paper.
Prabhupāda: Amar khub baro chobi beriyeche, Chicago te beriyeche, (With a big picture of mine that was published in Chicago.) "Barefoot Swami draws admiring Kṛṣṇa crowd." And . . . read that portion. America te amake ekhon public . . . (In America now the public to me . . .)
Lalita Bose: Na, apni to . . . apnara bollen, era boleni. Ekjan eschilen amar kache, uni bollen ye, (No, you are . . . you told, they also told. A person had come to me, he told me that is,) most prominent person in U.S. is Prabhupāda.
Brahmānanda: "Asked about the political situation in his native India and the criticized actions of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, the swami replied that 'Mrs. Gandhi is inclined to some spiritual understanding, and if she fully develops it, the situation will improve. Democracy is not much beneficial if its leaders have no spiritual values. Mahatma Gandhi was practically a dictator, but he was a man of high moral character, so people accepted him. Dictatorship can be good, provided the dictator is spiritually developed.' "
Devotee: (laughs) . . . haribol, haribol . . .
Lalita Bose: Apni kichudin thakun India te. (You stay for a few days in India.)
Prabhupāda: Na, thakbo. (Yes, I will stay.)
Lalita Bose: Na, apni . . . apnar yodi . . . (No, you . . . if your . . .)
Prabhupāda: Yodi eisob, tomader co-operation hoy. (If all your co-operation done.)
Lalita Bose: Ami to apnar . . . mone korun, oder bole diyechi, yodi jaile o yete hoy yabo. (I am your . . . you just think of me, I told them already, if they sent me to jail, I will go.)
Prabhupāda: Na, jaile yete hobe na. Amra . . . (indistinct) . . . (No you don't need to go to jail. We are . . . (indistinct) . . .)
Lalita Bose: Na, na ami bolchi ye . . . (No no, I am saying that is . . .)
Prabhupāda: Pap kaj korona, Harinam karo. Eito amra bolbo. (Don't do sin activity, and chant Hari's name. This is what we will say.)
Lalita Bose: Na, ami bolechi Brahmananda Reddy ke, yodi apni jaile o pathan okhaneo dekhben Krsna nam pracar hobe. Tate kono kshati nei. (I told Brahmananda Reddy that is, if you sent me to jail then the Kṛṣṇa's name will be preached there too. There is no problem.) No, no, no . . .
Prabhupāda: A ekta masta baro movement. Esob tomra, buddhimati meyera, tomra yodi sahay karo, ami India te ekhon thakbo, yakhan . . . (This is a very big movement. If intelligent girls like you, help me, then I will stay now in India, when the . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ekhan kichu din, mane . . . apnar sahay na hole . . . movement . . . karon prattekta jinis apnar jijnes kore korte hobe. Karon ekhane uni bolchen Indira ye, (For some days, means . . . without your help . . . movement . . . because everything have to do after asking you. Because now Indira has said that is,) emergency—you take this benefit. Mane onek gulo kaj. Tini ekhon caichen manus. (There is many works so she needs people.)
Prabhupāda: Ami emon paramarsa oke debo ye, samasta India foreign hoye jabe. Yodi o amar katha sone. (I will give her such advice that India will be turned into foreign. If she follows my instructions.)
Lalita Bose: Na, apni bolben ye, 'tumi amar meye, ar tomar bisaye ami' . . . (indistinct) . . . apni Krsner bhakta, apni kono niti cacchen na. Bujhte perechen ye, tumi amar . . . tomar bisaye ami ki likhechi paro. Tumi ye spiritually conscious hoye, tumi yodi . . . (Yes, you just tell her that is, 'you are like my daughter, and I think about you' . . . (indistinct) . . . you are a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you don't want any rules. Did you understand that is, you are my . . . what I have told about you just read. If you spiritually be conscious . . .) everything will be . . . but if it is the nasty things, the nasty and . . .
Prabhupāda: Politically it will be failure, but spiritually it will be successful.
Lalita Bose: Kajei, kal o yar sange katha bolechi, uni bolechen, (That's why yesterday I met a person, he told me,) she is eager to meet him, so he should talk high level . . . khali eituku apni bolun ye, amar chelera sob kichu tyag kore Bharat-varse development korte asche . . . (You just tell her one thing that is, my disciples have come here to develop India . . .)
Prabhupāda: Tomar khanikta situation tairi korche . . . (They are creating your situations . . .)
Lalita Bose: Hya. Tumi sudhu ei kore dao ye . . . tourist visay, Maharaj ektu asubidha ache . . . (Yes. You just do this . . . there is a problem with the tourist visa Mahārāja.)
Prabhupāda: Na, tourist keno? (No, why tourist visa?)
Lalita Bose: As anti visar janya . . . (As for anti-visa . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ami visa kori ye, oi . . . oi . . . ekta visa ache, missionary. (I made a visa that is, that is . . . missionary visa.)
Lalita Bose: Accha! (All right.) Missionary visa.
Prabhupāda: Hya, tara parmanetly thakle parbe. Amake ora diyeche, (Yes, they can live permanently. They have given me that,) because I am missionary, amake permanent resident diyeche America te. Amar visa, passport kicchu lagbena. (They have given me permanent residency in America. I don't need any visa or passport.)
Lalita Bose: Seta apni bolben. (This you will say.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, amake diyeche. (Yes, they have given me.)
Lalita Bose: Ye, yodi oi government dite pare . . . (That is, if that government can give . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ye, India . . . Indiar lok America te permanet resident nite hole onek kath, khor pore. Ar ta sigr hoy yodi oi desher meye ke yodi biye kore, tar takhani hoye yay. Ar ta chara, ora certain percentage lok ney anya desh theke sei . . . (Indian people have to struggle a lot to get a permanent resident in America. And that can be more quickly if someone marries a girl of that country, he immediately get residency. Without that, they take certain percentage people from other country that is . . .) "You will have to wait for six years." Amake diye tara kaj korabe ye . . . (They have work with me so . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ye, apni eto improvement korchen. (Yes, because you are improving the country.) Bhavananda Mahārāja, we have to note down the point "missionary movement," and what will be the subject. You have to submit one letter, like doctorly. Yeman ami oke didi boli, ami Prime Minister boli na. 'Apni amar meye' bole bolben. (As I tell her elder sister, I don't tell her Prime Minister. 'You are my daughter' call her like this.)
Prabhupāda: Seta ekhon, direct bolata ucit noy. Kenona uni hocchen Prime Minister. (But I shouldn't address her directly now. Because she is the Prime Minister.)
Lalita Bose: Accha! Prime minister bole . . . (Okay after addressing her as Prime Minister . . .)
Prabhupāda: Uni yodi amake bole ye, apni meyer mato address korun tahole ami dakbo. (If she tells me to address her as a daughter, then I will call her.)
Lalita Bose: Accha! Yai hok. Tahole Prime Minister hisabe kore, apni ekta . . . (All right, whatever. Then after addressing as Prime Minister, one thing you . . .)
Prabhupāda: Se to amar meyer bayosi, ar ki . . . amar baro meyer janma hoyechilo 1921. Tomader janmo kato te? (She is my daughter's age, and . . . my elder daughter was born in 1921. What is your date of birth?)
Lalita Bose: Amar 29. (Mine, 29.)
Prabhupāda: 29. Ta tumi to onek choto. Ta Indirar janma? (29. Then you are very young. And Indiria's birthday?)
Lalita Bose: Amar mone hoy . . . (I think . . .) she is now fifty-seven.
Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven.
Devotee (2): 1920.
Prabhupāda: Eighteen?
Devotee (1): I think 1920.
Prabhupāda: 18 to 19. Ta amar meyer ceye du-bachor. (So she is younger in two years than my daughter.)
Lalita Bose: Na, apni yodi ekhane, ektu katha den . . . karan Indir . . . (No, if you promise here . . . because Indir . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ami sob korte raji achi . . . (I agree to do everything.)
Lalita Bose: Na, onek gulo jinis . . . janen . . . (No, many things are there . . . you know . . .)
Prabhupāda: Spiritual improvement er janye, ami sob korte raji achi. (For spiritual improvement, I can do everything.)
Lalita Bose: Ar ekta . . . (And another . . .)
Prabhupāda: Juto selai, candi path sob korte raji achi. (Sewing shoes, and uttering hymns is everything I can do.)
Lalita Bose: Hya, ora boleche ye, ekta prasna bollo, dekhun uni hoyto ekta prasna korlen, karan ekhon hocche Indiraji ki bollben seta o age theke katak korche . . . mane erom colche ajkal. (Yes, they are saying that, a question has been asked. See she may ask a question, because nowadays whatever Indiraji says, that has been recorded before . . . means this is going on nowadays.)
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Lalita Bose: Uni korben Guru Maharaj ke ekta prasna ye, apni foreign exchange, for the development of India ki korte paren? Seta te uni yena balen, ye ami hak . . . mane spiritual tate thakbe kintu karma o thakbe. (She will ask a question to Guru Mahārāja that, "Can you do foreign exchange, for the development of India?" On that he should reply that, "I am truly . . ." means there will be spirituality and working activity as well.)
Prabhupāda: Foreign exchange to anchi, amar e yesob kichu sampatti eto, sob baire theke enechi, ekhane rekhe diyechi. Amar ei kajer janye ya taka lage sob ami America theke anchi, kati kati taka anchi. Eito banke account ache dekhchen na? (I am bringing foreign exchange, all my resources, all these I have brought from outside, I am bringing cores of money. Here is the bank account can you see?)
Lalita Bose: Hya, amito bole diyechi. (Yes, I have already told you.) Go for it.
Prabhupāda: Banke ache. (Have in the Bank.)
Lalita Bose: (indistinct) . . . taka ase (money comes . . .)
Devotee: They have all bank prove.
Prabhupāda: Sob, amader sob bank . . . (All, we all have bank . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ekdom, (Absolutely,) she asked that how it is . . . "Can you prove?" And yes. You can send immediately? Everything is in open.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I have all the receipts with me from the bank transfers.
Prabhupāda: Sob banke ache, ekta paisa amra . . . (All are in the bank, single penny we . . .)
Lalita Bose: Tahole apni yodi ektu katha den ye, kichu din antato mas khanek eder ektu settle kore deoa . . . mane yara cole yacche, tader yete din, kintu entry visa ta kora ebong missionary work yeta apni bolechen. (So, if you promise that, at least for someday after settling with them . . . it means those who are going, let them go, but the entry visa has to be made and the missionary work which you have said.)
Prabhupāda: Eta ami Brahmananda ke bolechilam, ar tomakeo bolchi, eta kore dao tahole amar ektu santi hoy. Ta na hole ami esob baro baro institution korechi, era cole gele ami manage korbo ki kore? (I have told this to Brahmananda and I am also telling you, please do this then I will get relief. Otherwise I have opened such a big, big institution, if they go back then how will I manage?)
Lalita Bose: Parben na. (You can't.)
Prabhupāda: Esob jinisto nasta hoye geche, ar ekta . . . (indistinct) . . . etar byabasta karo age. (All these have been damaged, and another . . . (indistinct) . . . arrange this thing first.)
Lalita Bose: Se ek apurba kaj koren. Ar eder madhya na amra . . . ektu time lagbe era yato ta kasto korte parche . . . (That is wonderful work. And among them we are . . . they need time, as they can do very hard work . . .)
Prabhupāda: Time na, era yeman seriously sunche. Amar . . . amar chute asa ei janye ye, amader ei ye science ta ye, (Not time, as they are listening very seriously. I . . . I came running for this, the science we have that,) this is meant for the executive head of the state. It is meant for. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, it is stated,
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāhur
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣayo. It is meant for the rājarṣis. So Indira is in the position of rāja. If she becomes a ṛṣi, then it will be successful. Then it will be successful.
Lalita Bose: Sei ta apni ektu . . . (That you just . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya, sei katha to bolbo ye, ei janye ami chute eschi, ye (Yes, I will tell her that, this is why I came running,) "You have got the position of royalty. You become a saintly lady. Then your scheme will be all successful." That is required. That I can help, how to make her a ṛṣi.
Lalita Bose: No, she is full of humility . . . Ami apnake bolchi Maharaj, uni yathesta namrata ache. (I am telling you Mahārāja, she has enough humility.)
Prabhupāda: Then not only the people of India will be benefited but also the whole world will be benefited. And you have got that sampatti, Bhagavad-gītā guidance. I will not manufacture anything. That is not my business, concoction thing, hodgepodge, without any knowledge, without any experience. We are not that type of . . .
Lalita Bose: Oi boi ta kintu amra sange niye yabo. (We will take that book with us.)
Prabhupāda: Hya niye yao. (Yes you can take it with you.)
Lalita Bose: That book . . .
Prabhupāda: Oi dekho amader sob lok janke khaoacche . . . (See, we were feeding other people . . .)
Lalita Bose: Egulo . . . mane . . . (These are . . . means . . .) you know Bhavananda we have to set everything. When I phone, we should be ready.
Prabhupāda: You make a file. Whatever she says, make a file and keep that.
Lalita Bose: We have to, yes.
Prabhupāda: Eisob lok ke roj amra khaoacchi, du-hajar lok. Ekta center na, sob centere. Ta ei . . . e . . . ete amade kono credit nei . . . (We feed daily all these people, 2000 people. That not only in one center, in every center. But we don't want any credit.)
Lalita Bose: Accha, apnar kono apatti ache yodi government kono scheme . . . (Okay, do you have any objection if the government gives any scheme . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hmm . . .
Lalita Bose: Yeman go-sala . . . (As cowshed . . .)
Prabhupāda: Na, government . . . setay ami . . . apatti ei janye ache, government ye gulo scheme janena. (No, the government . . . for that I . . . have objection for this, the government doesn't know about those schemes.)
Lalita Bose: Na, ora ye takata debe, apnaderi vitti te . . . (No, the money they will give for the base of you . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya . . . (Yes . . .)
Lalita Bose: Yeman Ramkrsna mission ke dicche, ebong ora bolche ye, taka ta yekhane yacche amra bujhchi era kaj korche. (As they are giving to the Ramakrsna mission, and they are telling us, we can see they are working using the money.)
Prabhupāda: Hya . . . (Yes . . .)
Lalita Bose: Seta yodi ISKCON kichu kore . . . (If ISKCON does like that . . .)
Prabhupāda: We will have pi to pi account . . .
Lalita Bose: Hya, ISKCON yodi kore tahole amra ekta Indiay ekta organization gorbo. (Yes, if ISKCON also does the same then we will make an organization in India.)
Prabhupāda: Hya . . . (Yes . . .)
Lalita Bose: And they can admit for any . . .
Prabhupāda: Khub bhalo kore korbo, era to expert korte. Ar taka ya deben, tar amara pi to pi hisab diye debo. Ekta hisab pele amra debo. Amader khali facility . . . takao yodi na dey, amra baire theke bhikshe kore niye asbo. Amader ke kaj ta korbar subidhe darkar . . . (We will do it nicely, they are experts at doing this. And the money which you will provide, we will give you pi to pi account of money. If we spend, we will give an account. We need only a facility . . . if they don't give us money, we will beg money from outside. But we only need the facility to do this work . . .)
Lalita Bose: (aside) We have to note down what he is saying. That's why I told . . . that will be written in short letter, short, Guru Mahārāja to Prime Minister. And it is to be . . .
Prabhupāda: Anyone can? You can read Hindi?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Read it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (reads Hindi)
Prabhupāda: You can go on, go on reading.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (reads Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Dash-panera rakam varieties, ar ek paisa cai ni. Oita bolte cay ye, hotele gele to dash doller nebe, era kichu to nen na, athaca bhalo bhalo jinis . . . (indistinct) . . . debe. (10 to 15 varieties, and we didn't ask a single penny. They wanted to say this, if they visit a hotel they might pay 10 dollars for the food but here they didn't charge any money, still very nice food . . .)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (continues reading)
Prabhupāda: Lucī, kachorī, rābṛi sandeśa, rasagullā, pyada ar . . .
Lalita Bose: Oi jinista amader ekhane hobe na! (Can that not be done here also?)
Prabhupāda: Dudh amader daily, 1,000 pound, Vrndavan. Ke kato khabe, dusho lok matra. Na, era eto baro ekta cithi likheche ekhan theke ye lok Naba-Bharat time ta e kono false propaganda noy. (In Vṛndāvana we get 1,000 pound of milk daily. There are only 200 people, how much they will eat? They have written a long letter to that person of "Naba-Bharat Time" that is not a false propaganda.)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this August 24th and 31st, Dharmayan is bringing up two big articles on us on Janmāṣṭamī, to do a series. August 24th issue and August 31st, two very nice articles on us are appearing.
Prabhupāda: Yara go-khadak tara ei sob gorakṣya korche. (The people who are cow-eaters, they have come to protect the cow.) Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma-svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Bhagavad-gītāy boleche. Esob amra sekhacchi, ar India te hobe na! Keno? (Bhagavad-gītā says that. We are teaching all this, so why won't it happen in India! Why?)
Lalita Bose: Keno hobe na? Amader to jinis ache sudhu . . . (indistinct) . . . (Why not? We have all the things, just . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Sobi to amader. Ektu misguide kora hoyeche. Eso, tumio eso, amio thaki. (Everything is ours. They have been misguided a little. You just come and I will also be there.)
Lalita Bose: Na, ami apnar carane byas surrender puro. Khali amar maa ektu . . . mane bayes hoyeche to . . . (No, I have surrendered unto your feet. For my mother, she is . . . means she is aged so . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya . . . (Yes . . .) Hare Kṛṣṇa . . .
Lalita Bose: Ta, janen to ajkal barite boura bises dekha sona kore na . . . khub bhakti, . . . tumi Guru Maharaji ke balo ye tumi . . . 'tomar duty hocche, uni ekhane nei, ora tomar bhai bon', (As you know this, nowadays the ladies don't stay home and look after . . . she is a very nice devotee . . . you just tell Guru Mahārāja that you . . . "As he is not present here, and they are your brothers and sisters so your duty is,") "You go away." My mother told that "You leave me. Kṛṣṇa will look after me." Seventy-six.
Prabhupāda: Tomar baba, Subhas Babur baro chilo? (Is your father older than Subhas Babu?)
Lalita Bose: Na sejo bhai, hya baro chilo. (No, he was older.)
Prabhupāda: Uni sabar choto? (Is he younger than everyone?)
Lalita Bose: Uni chotor opore. (He was older than younger.) My mother is very spiritual. Uni bollen "Guru Mahārāj ji nei, (She told me "As Guru Mahārāja ji is not here,) you must go and tell Indira."
Prabhupāda: Tomar ek kaka ache bod hoy Mumbai te. (Seems you have an uncle in Bombay.)
Lalita Bose: Hya . . . uni apnake . . . (Yes . . . he is your . . .)
Prabhupāda: Tini esechilen? (Did he come?)
Lalita Bose: Hya. Or cokh cole geche, janen operation karar por? (Yes. Do you know he lost his eyes after the operation?)
Prabhupāda: Huh . . .
Lalita Bose: Ta amay bollen ye Maharaj ele amay bolbe . . . (He told me that, inform me when the Mahārāja arrives . . .)
Prabhupāda: Kaka, kaki sob esechilo? (Uncle and aunt all they have come?)
Lalita Bose: Hya, hya. Ora ekhon Mumbai dike ache. Accha, apni ye bhabe amay calaben, keno na or secretory kal ke phone bolechen ye, Guru Maharajer pratham din ele hoyto uni tired hoben. Kajei, Lalita, Maharaj ji asar por, (Yes, yes. They are now in Bombay. Okay, as you direct me, because the secretary told me yesterday on the phone that, "After arriving here Guru Mahārāja may feel tired." That's why Lalita, after arriving Mahārāja,) she should report. Apni aj yodi hathat diye dey, ektu bhari hobe, oder bole di ekhon phone kore ye, kal . . . (That would be heavy if they give it today, let me tell them by calling, tomorrow . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ta kon somoy ta? (So in which time?)
Lalita Bose: Seta uni bollen ye, amra according to . . . tate duto jinis bolechen ye, yodi Prime Minister yodi moni koren ye, or barite ekanta or sange dekha korbe, seta or opor. Ami bolechi yekhane uni bolben, ekhon ar kono place noy. Apni to mane vaisnava . . . (She has told me that. We are according to . . . she has told me two things about that matter, if the Prime Minister thinks that, she will meet us in her house, that is her matter. But I said wherever she will talk. Now we are not thinking about the place. As you are a Vaisnava . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya, ektu samay katha koibo . . . (Yes, I will talk very short . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ami bolechi dash minutes. Aj kal to Prime Minister er dash minute mane onek. dash minute hole na apnar yodi bhalo lage tar, tar kono time nei. Amar to mone hoy Maharaj ji amra yodi, lege pori, ebong emergency te eituku bujhte parchi file khub quick colche. Ebong Calcuttay Tarun Babu ye cithi diyechilen, unio khub impressed, ei Radharani ar or svamir janye. Ye o yodi cole yay . . . ami Tarun Babur kache gelam, sekhane M.L.A bhora politics colche to. (I told her only 10 minutes. Nowadays 10 minutes of the Prime Minister is a great thing. Within 10 minutes—if she likes you, then there won't be any time limits. I think Mahārāja, if you start our work, and in this emergency I can see the files are being passed very quickly. And in Calcutta which letter was sent by Tarun Babu, he is also very impressed, for the husband of Radharani. That if he goes . . . I went to meet Tarun Babu, there were many M.L.A, and politics were going on.)
Prabhupāda: Na, oto apnar . . . (No, that actually . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ebar ye Lalita esche, tomra sob yao, bhago ekhan theke. Ami bollam apni vaisnav, (Lalita has come, all of you please go, run away from here. I told him that you are a Vaisnava,) but you have to . . . I have written to Brahmananda Reddy and copied it, because I am going to Prime Minister. I will have to show them that Tarun Babu also na, amar ki hobe? Tomar sange ye rakam relationship. (no, then what will happen to me? As we have a good relationship.) You go personally. And I will also carry your letter. So he was also . . .
Prabhupāda: Tarun tomar ceye baro naki? (Is Tarun older than you?)
Lalita Bose: Na, amar ceye baro Tarun, tobe or stri amar khub bises bandhu, ebong amra ek sange kirtan-tirtan korechi. (Yes, Tarun is older than me and her wife is a close friend of mine, we used to do kirtana together.)
Prabhupāda: Or strir baba amar classmate. (The father of his wife was my classmate.)
Lalita Bose: Accha! To Tarun Babu bolchen any how Guru Maharaj ji ke tumi anao. Karan ekhon uni thakle ye ekta, ora ye . . . sabai yane American guru. (All right, Tarun Babu was saying that, "How will you please bring Guru Mahārāja ji." Because if he will be there then the thing they were . . . everyone knows American guru.) Yesterday somebody came to me when I am just dekhun Central Intelligence er o kaj korche, ami kothay achi (see that he is doing service as Central Intelligence and see where I am) . . . whose house that Mr. Badiraja house, and Guru Mahārāja is Indian or American. Twice they phoned from the Prime Minister's office. We are telling them in Bengali. From there, Calcutta, West Bengal. And I know, my grandfather knows him, and I told this. Ora bhebeche, (They are thinking that,) this American guru. And again and again they are phoning. I said, "No, no." To kajei uni khub interest niye apnar sange meet korbe, ar ami bolbo ye, ar ektu dao, ar ektu dao. Apni khub . . . dignified way . . . ami cai ye apni khub nin, ar ami bole debo 'ar ektu time diye dao Guru Maharaj ji ar ektu katha bolben'. Bas eituku apni janben yodi o impressed hoy . . . o pechane-samne kono type er noy. (That's why she will meet with great interest, and I will say that, "Give him more time, give him more time." You just . . . in a dignified way . . . I want that you take, and I will tell her "Please give Guru Mahārāja a few more times, he wants to talk a little more." That's it, you just have to confirm about this, if she gets impressed . . . she is not a two-faced type.) What she will feel? She has got that power.
Prabhupāda: Na ami bujhechi, sei janyei to ami jani ye, (I understand, that's why I know that,) she is spiritually inclined, therefore . . . ami bolechi oi kathata ye, (I said that,) "I know Mrs. Gandhi is spiritually inclined." Eta ami bolechi. Ami loke yeram bhabe oke nicche, ami seram bhabe ni na. (I said that. As the way people are taking her, I don't think she likes that.)
Lalita Bose: Ar ami oke personally eto jani ye, o khub mane, a ache, ta na hole erokom standard attitude manus pete pare na. (And I know her so personally, she obeys otherwise how could she be this standard personality.)
Prabhupāda: Or baba, Jawaharlal Nehru amar Allahabade ye dokan chilo, pharmacy, khub baro, amar customer chilo. Ar amar sange eto bandhutta . . . (indistinct) . . . khub alap chilo, tai 1928 Jawaharlal Nehru, Congress President holo, Calcutta! (His father Jawaharlal Nehru was a big customer of my pharmacy in Allahabad. And our friendship was so . . . (indistinct) . . . we were so close, that's why when Jawaharlal Nehru became a President of Congress in Calcutta!)
Lalaita Bose: Hya, 1928. (Yes, in 1928.)
Prabhupāda: Mone ache? (Can you recall?)
Lalita Bose: Hya. (Yes.)
Prabhupāda: Ta ami, Pandit ji ke cithi likhlam, (So I wrote a letter to Pandit Ji,) "Dear Panditjī, I want to go to Congress as a delegate. Please give me delegate ticket." Tar uttare, sei khane likhe diyechilo ye, (As a reply to that, he wrote that,) "You don't require any ticket. You come here. You'll get it." Delegate's seats are already . . .
Lalita Bose: Accha! Ar ekta jinis apnar bisaye ora jante cay, seta ami . . . apni deben na, ami yakhan yacchi dicchi, apnar life history. (Okay. They also want to know one thing about you, that I will . . . you don't need to give, when I will go I will give, that is the history of your life.)
Prabhupāda: Amar life history . . . amader chele bela theke . . . (My life history . . . we are from childhood . . .)
Lalita Bose: Karan ekhane, (Because here,) you born . . . when Guru Mahārāja born? Setao ora caiche. (They are also asking that.)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 1896.
Lalita Bose: Somebody has reported that he is American and this and that.
Prabhupāda: Na, amar ei Calcuttay janma. (No, I was born in Calcutta.)
Lalita Bose: Hya, ISKCON-er pechane bahu organization pechane legeche. (Yes, many organizations are chasing ISKCON.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, se ami jani . . . (Yes, that I know . . .)
Lalita Bose: Tar modhye Ramkrsna mission ekjan, ebong sob administratione sob oi Maharaj ar Sai Baba sob bose ache officer. (And among them in the Ramakrsna mission, all the administrations and those who have become so called Mahārāja and Sai Baba, they are seated as officers.) You know I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, you know, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any that, "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending. To sei theke sunlam, kalke ye, Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. Keu nice, Ramkrsna . . . marathi type, ki . . . (South Indian. So I heard yesterday that Mr. Mani is a disciple of Sai Baba. He may be from Ramakrsna . . . Marathi type, or South Indian.)
Prabhupāda: Mani . . . Mani south Indian.
Lalita Bose: To kintu Indira Gandhir kach theke kono, kono kichu ISKCON sammandhe yay ni. (So Indira Gandhi didn't get anything about ISKCON.) There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. But can I mention that you must fit to see her?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lalita Bose: Ajke hole ektu bhari hoye yabe. Ajke hobeo na. (Today it will be heavy. Today is not possible.)
Prabhupāda: Ajke to deri hoye geche, kakhan hobe thik nei. Ta kal sakale hote pare. (Already it is late today. I am not sure when, maybe tomorrow morning.)
Lalita Bose: Hya, ami bole dicchi, (Yes, I am telling her, now he has a right.)
Prabhupāda: Tobe kalke, bikele hobe na, brhaspati bare bar badha. (But not tomorrow afternoon, Thursday is daytime interruptions.)
Lalita Bose: Accha, bikele! Ami bolbo. (Okay so in the afternoon. I will tell her.)
Prabhupāda: Na, bikele ota subidher na. (No, afternoon is not good.)
Lalita Bose: Bhalo na . . . (Not good . . .)
Prabhupāda: Tumi to jano, Bangladeshe . . . (You know, in Bangladesh . . .)
Lalita Bose: To bar bela seta kakhan porche . . . (So, in which time it is being . . .)
Prabhupāda: D.L Roy likhechilo . . . paro to janmo nako Brspati bare bar bari. (Once D.L Roy wrote . . . if you can, don't be born on Thursday, it is not good.) (laughs)
Lalita Bose: Tahole parsu kora yay! (Then, it can be done the day after tomorrow.)
Prabhupāda: Na parsu keno kal to Brhaspati bar. (No, why the day after tomorrow, though tomorrow is Thursday.)
Lalita Bose: Bikal bela mane katar modhye? (Which time in the afternoon?)
Prabhupāda: Bikel belay . . . baro tar por ami . . . sakale hote pare, sakale hote pare. Kimba kalke ratire hote pare, oi samayta noy. (In the afternoon . . . after 12 pm I . . . possible in the morning, possible in morning.) Between twelve to end of the day. Eta thik. (That will be good.)
Lalita Bose: Ācchā. (All right.)
Prabhupāda: Ratire hote pare, kal sakale hote pare. (Maybe at night or in the morning.)
Lalita Bose: Tahole ami phone ta kori . . . (Then I am calling . . .)
Prabhupāda: Brhaspati bare bar badha ta, amader ekta prejudice ache to . . . (Thursday is daytime interruptions, as we have a prejudice . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ta apni amay, nijer meyer moto guide korben . . . (So you will guide me as your daughter . . .)
Prabhupāda: Thik ache, tumi to amar meyer bayosi. (All right, as you are my daughter's age.)
Lalita Bose: Ami byas, ya apni bolben . . . (I will do whatever you will ask . . .)
Prabhupāda: Tumi ekta, eita yogayog karo . . . ye Indira Gandhir ekta position, (You just contact them . . . the position of Indira Gandhi,) and plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. Yodio amader mission tai hocche, (Although our mission is,) Imaṁ rājarṣayo ei third-class, fourth-class ra ki bujhbe? (What this third-class, fourth-class person can understand?) Third-class, fourth-class rogue, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rājarṣayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand.
Lalita Bose: You must have that quality to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Na, na emnito sakalkei bolchen Krsna, kintu beginning ta hocche, (No, no though Kṛṣṇa is saying to everyone, but beginning should be from,) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Find out this verse.
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāhur
- manur ikṣvākave . . .
- (BG 4.1)
Ikṣvāku-rājarṣi, Iksvaku raj hocche Rāmacandra-vaṁśer pratham, (King Iksvaku came into the lineage of Lord Ramacandra,) originator of the dynasty of the Sūrya-vaṁśa. Kṣatriya Duto vamsa ache, Sūrya-vaṁśa and Candra-vaṁśa. (There are two lineages, Surya-vamsa (sun) and Candra-vamsa (moon).)
Harikeśa:
- sri bhagavān uvāca
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
"The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Harikeśa: Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.
Prabhupāda: Again, rājarṣayo viduḥ, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ. Oi Rājarṣayara yakhan chere dilo, yekono karane hok, takhani Indiar culture patan hoye gelo. Ekhon yodi rajarsayo Indira hoy, (When those Kings have left this for whatever reason, then the culture became a fall down. Now if Indira becomes a rajarsayo,) It can be revived. Now I can help you. This is my . . . Bolche, (It says,) sa kāleneha?
Harikeśa: Kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.
Prabhupāda: Yogo naṣṭaḥ paran . . . yakhan rājarṣayara chere dile, tacchilla korle yato sob third-class, fourth-class lok, Gita ke alocana korte arambha kore dilo, takhon ei . . . (When the rajarsaya left and poltroon this, they all the third-class, fourth-class persons are started discussing the Gītā, then this . . .) "yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa" . . . ei yog ta nasta hoye gelo. Ei ye third-class, fourth-class lok kicchu jane na, paramarthik kono jnan nei, tara yakhan alocana korbe, eita . . . yemon amader ache bidhi ye, Brahmin na hole Veda sunte parbe na. Brahmin mane ki brahminical qualification, yeman amader niyam ache ye, graduate na hole law college dhukte parbe na. Eta kono restriction na, eta, (so that connection got disconnected. And these third-class, fourth-class people they know nothing, they don't have spiritual knowledge. When they will start discussing, that . . . as we have a rule that a person must be a brahmin to listen to the Veda. Brahmin means brahminical qualification, as we have a rule that, without graduation, can't enter the law college. This is not a restriction,) primary qualification that one must be a graduate, then he can understand what is law. Similarly, if one is actually brāhmaṇa by qualification, then he can understand what is Vedas. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa was interested to speak to the rājarṣis. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. He told to the . . . first of all He spoke to Vivasvān, the king of the sun planet. That picture is there?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. First of all He spoke that . . . if you take history of Bhagavad-gītā, then it comes to forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. How do you calculate? The calculation is there. Any intelligent man can calculate, because Brahmā's duration of life is mentioned there. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). So one yuga means forty-three lakhs of years, and multiply by it one thousand. That is Brahmā's duration of one day. Now, in one day there are seven Manus. So Vivasvān Manu's age can be calculated—at least forty millions of years ago. So the Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. It was spoken five thousand years ago to Arjuna. That was not the first speaking. He says, "I first spoke to the Vivasvān, the sun-god." Yes, show him.
Lalita Bose: Tahole ye . . . (Then the . . .)
Prabhupāda: Sob ache . . . Bhagavad-gītāy, eita yodi seriously ney Indira Gandhi. Tahole ekta wonderful . . . eta na . . . (Everything is present in Bhagavad-gītā, if Indira Gandhi takes it seriously, then it is wonderful . . . this is not . . .) I am manufacturing something. Everything is there. "If you simply follow, a great, wonderful thing will be done." She is now in a position. Simply she has to take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically. And that is not very difficult. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti . . . parjanyād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Make this program, immediately.
Lalita Bose: The reaction will start.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lalita Bose: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Mahārāja has done.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am simply . . . this is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic and, what is called, miracles, they are . . . where they are and where I am. That is their fear.
Lalita Bose: Fear.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They understood that, "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-melā all these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Kṛṣṇa-śakti . . . it is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. (aside) Have you got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe pravartane.
Prabhupāda: Nāma pracāra.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Lord Kṛṣṇa's energies . . ."
Prabhupāda: And kṛṣṇa bhajanate nāhi jāti-kulādi vicāra. These are all Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . what is that?
Harikeśa: Is that Madhya-līlā?
Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Here.
Lalita Bose: Tahole or, egulo byas mene cola, (Then she only has to obey these,) automatic you will be . . .
Prabhupāda: Oita mene niye . . . (By accepting that . . .) sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa and follow Him. Then you are successful.
Lalita Bose: And I will tell her.
Prabhupāda: Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). He says: "Kaunteya, take it for granted that My devotee will never be vanquished." Then you have to disbelieve all these words or you have to believe these words. There are two things. If you believe, then you are successful. If you don't believe . . .
Lalita Bose: Apnar meeting ta spiritual hok . . . (Let the meeting be spiritual . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya, spiritualito. Amader to eisob politics . . . (Yes, that will be spiritual. We have nothing with politics . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ar khali eituku bolun ye, ami borong Guru Maharaj ke bolechi, 'onek baire korechen, ekhon amader Bharat-varse ektu thakun', ebong uni . . . uni, specially esechen samasta kaj chere tomar kache. (You just say this, so I am telling Guru Mahārāja, "You have done a lot in foreign, now you stay little in India," and he . . . he, especially has come here to you by leaving all his work.)
Prabhupāda: Hya, tai to amio to hathat . . . (Yes, that I . . . suddenly . . .)
Lalita Bose: . . . to cooperate with you to establish a good life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually my intention. Otherwise I have cancelled a very big, big . . .
Lalita Bose: Hya, hya . . . ami, amito jani seta. Ebong uni amay bollen ye, (Yes, yes . . . I, I know that. And he told me that,) can he cancel, how can he come from Canada immediately? She is eager to meet you.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not dependent on him. I can cancel, accept anything. (laughter)
Lalita Bose: To Maharaj ji khali, eta ekta yeta apni meet korchen . . . (So Mahārāja just, that what you are meeting . . .) when he is meeting, only one, small, as a spiritual guide. And . . .
Prabhupāda: Na, yodi balo . . . ekla balo, ami eklai yabo . . . (No, if you tell . . . fore alone, I will go alone . . .)
Lalita Bose: Na, ami sange thakle ekta subidha thakbe Maharaj . . . (No, if I am with you then that will be an advantage Mahārāja . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya, tumio thakbe . . . (Yes, you will be there . . .)
Lalita Bose: Pore, ekjan sudhu ora bolche. Ye, photographer, with permission, amra allow korte pari, yodi paka minister bole, amar iccha apnar sange Indira jir ekta chobi. (They were saying after that, we can allow a photographer with permission, if the minister confirms, I wish to take a picture of yourself with Indira.)
Prabhupāda: Ekjan, ki dui jan thakbe . . . (There will be one or two persons . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ye dujoner nam, (The name of two persons,) we have to apply . . .
Jayapatāka: The photographer can stay outside in the waiting room, and if they give permission, then we can enter.
Prabhupāda: They can go, but when I meet, I'll take two, two secretaries.
Lalita Bose: I have to tell two secretaries. "He is accompanied, two secretaries."
Prabhupāda: Two secretaries, that's all.
Lalita Bose: And allow them with camera.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lalita Bose: Allow the camera.
Brahmānanda: The camera can be afterwards.
Lalita Bose: Oh, after.
Brahmānanda: Because Prabhupāda will be preaching, and he doesn't like photos taken while he is preaching. Also, it may be possible to record the . . .
Prabhupāda: No, you can take. What is there? You can take photograph. You? Or you?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So these two persons will be . . .
Jayapatāka: Bhārgava is also there, if they allow him after it's over to come . . .
Prabhupāda: After that, yes.
Brahmānanda: What about tape record? We could tape record the session also.
Lalita Bose: They don't want that.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.
Lalita Bose: They said no.
Prabhupāda: No, she has got political situation, so that's all right. We should not record. We shall talk, and photo can be taken. That's all.
Lalita Bose: Tahole, ekta point apni oke likhiye din, ye cithita apni oke dicchen. Ekta cithi apnar dite hobe, seta hobe . . . oita, otar opor basis hobe kaj, apnio ye Head ekjan person . . . (Then, you make him write another point on that letter which you are sending. A letter you have to send, that would be . . . that one, on the basis of that work will be started, you are also a head person . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ami cithi . . . (I . . . letter . . .) where is my, that letter, I wrote one?
Brahmānanda: To Indira Gandhi?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I wrote one letter. When this trouble was there, so it came to my mind that, "Why there is trouble? All the leaders can follow Bhagavad-gītā, and then things will be all right." So I sent that letter, Indira Gandhi letter. Here. What did I write?
Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Gandhi." This is dated July 1st, 1975, from Evanston, Illinois.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom I wrote it?
Brahmānanda: From Chicago.
Prabhupāda: Chicago.
Brahmānanda: "May it please Your Excellency, enclosed please find one copy of my letter addressed to Śrī Jaya Prakash Narayanji. I wish that both of you may sit together and agree to join together to work on the basis of the instructions given in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is practical and good for India as well as for the whole world situation. The whole world is expecting to receive something from Indian culture. Why not push this movement and solve the complete problems of India? I hope you will take this suggestion seriously and do the needful without delay. Thanking you in anticipation. I beg to remain . . ."
Prabhupāda: So letter is already there.
Lalita Bose: Hya, ekhon Jay Prakash Narayaner situation bhalo na bujhlen! Eta ar deoa hobe na, apni yeman samasta kaj chere eschen, o bolche . . . o wait korche orokom e eagerness royeche. Dujan yodi ek hoye sekhane apnar . . . ora caiche ye, emni mukhe bolle kono kaj hoy na. Mukhe hoyto bole dilen mane pore ar ekjan meet korte elo uni bhule gelo, karan ekhon onar mathar khub abasta kharap, (Yes you know what, the situation of Jay Prakash Narayana is not good now. This won't be given anymore, as you have come here by leaving all your work, he said this . . . he is also waiting with great eagerness. If both come together in your . . . they want that, by saying words nothing will happen. You may say something with your mouth, after that someone comes to meet him then he may forget, because the condition of his brain is bad now,) after Mojiva's incident. She is very unbalanced, ekhon hocche yeta apni bolte caichen, seita ekta lekhar modhye thakle tar basise ISKCON er kaj arambha hoye yabe . . . (now whatever you want to say, if those present in a written form then on that basis will the work of ISKCON begin?) The work will start.
Prabhupāda: So now what shall I write?
Lalita Bose: Na, yeta apni ekhon point gulo bolchilen, wonderful point. Ye ami esechi puro kaj chere, world er ye . . . (No, the points you are saying now, wonderful points. That is, I have come here, by leaving all my works the . . . of the world . . .) you know what . . . he was busy for the world organiza . . . but he has left everything.
Prabhupāda: So shall I refer to your name?
Lalita Bose: Hya, bole din Lalita ei koreche, to ami cai ye, ei abastay amar ekhane theke tomake sahajya . . . co-operate kore, (Yes, you just say Lalita has done this. So I want to help you in this situation . . . by can cooperate,) to establish . . .
Prabhupāda: So take the . . .
Lalita Bose: Then, on that basis the work Minister. Otherwise only meeting, many people will come, then the . . .
Prabhupāda: So "Your Excellency, Śrīmatī Indira Devi . . ." Indira Gandhi or Indira Devi?
Lalita Bose: "Indira Devi bolben . . ." (Say "Indira Devi . . .")
Prabhupāda: "Indira Devi Gandhi, when I was in Canada, in . . ." Montreal?
Brahmānanda: Toronto.
Prabhupāda: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation . . ."
Brahmānanda: Sent me . .?
Prabhupāda: "One intimation that you wanted to see me."
Lalita Bose: No, I approached her. Ekhantay apni likhun ye, ami oke approach korechi . . . (Just write that here, I approach her . . .)
Prabhupāda: "She approached you for meeting with me . . . with you for a meeting"?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "For me."
Prabhupāda: "For me with you. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called saṅkīrtana movement. Sometimes they call Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the Indian people under your leadership, it will be very, very effective."
Lalita Bose: "And for the development . . ."
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lalita Bose: Ekhane ekta katha likhben, (Here, you can write one) thing, "For the development of this country I can bring foreign exchange for . . ."
Prabhupāda: No, why this?
Lalita Bose: Ota kintu na dile . . . oitay kintu khub helped hobe. (If we don't write that . . . that can help very much.)
Prabhupāda: "So we have already about six branches in India . . ."
Jayapatāka: Eight.
Prabhupāda: "Eight. And all the development is being done by foreign exchange. So it can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection."
Lalita Bose: "I need your advices for this development." Develpmenter sammandhe or o kichu idea ache. Ar o na . . . Guru Maharaj eikhane ekta boledin, ei gandhian yeta village seta amra already korchi ebong aro expend korte cai (She got some idea of development. And she is . . . Guru Mahārāja here you mention another thing that is, this Gandhian village we have already created and also want to expend it more,) "With the help of government in villages."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I . . . I just had one point. In my speaking to Ganesha's also, even when we tell them we are bringing huge amounts of foreign exchange from abroad, they at once say: "But how do you get this money abroad?"
Prabhupāda: We sell our books.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So I was thinking maybe we could add a line or two on your books, that the foreign exchange is obtained.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in the foreign countries, Europe and America."
Lalita Bose: Is a biggest seller, I think . . . Gita apnar bod hoy sob ceye besi bikr hoyeche. (Seems the Gītā has been sold more than all of you.)
Prabhupāda: There is no record in the whole world. That religious books are selling twenty lakhs now, it is no record.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Back to Godhead alone has done that.
Prabhupāda: So . . .
Lalita Bose: You make . . .
Prabhupāda: That's all right. "And by the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange here." So I came here that she wants to see me, then why you are getting from me write . . .
Lalita Bose: Na, ekhon byaparta ki hoyeche janen? Yeta real, real tai to amake place korte hobe. Ora ki boleche ami janina apnay phone . . . ami Delhi theke elam, eder yakhan cithi yay. Takhan ami boli arki ye, Hare Kṛṣṇa society . . . takhan uni bollen Guru Maharaj ke? Ami kintu oder janyei bolte eschilam. Takhan ami ulto . . . (indistinct) . . . (Actually, you know what happen? The thing which is real, I have to place the reality. I don't know what they have said to you on phone . . . I came from Delhi, when their latter got delivered. Then I told that, Hare Kṛṣṇa society . . . then she asked, who is Guru Mahārāja? I just came to tell from their side. Then I reverse . . . (indistinct) . . .)
Prabhupāda: To eto katha lekha thik hobe ki? (So, is this good to write this much?)
Lalita Bose: Na, ora na hole to . . . tahole abar next time apnar ye meeting . . . apnarto ete khali spiritual er base ee reoyeche apnar . . . (Otherwise they won't . . . then next time again if you have a meeting . . . there is only your spiritual base . . .)
Prabhupāda: Read it. Read it, what I have said.
Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting for you and myself. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instructions in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world."
Prabhupāda: Everyone in India.
Brahmānanda: "In India everyone should become a guru."
Prabhupāda: No, no. "Everyone should become a guru."
Brahmānanda: "His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam . . ."
Prabhupāda: "Four hundred pages each."
Brahmānanda: "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries, Europe and America. By sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Lalita Bose: Ami approach korchi, apni doure asen ni, ami approach korchi ye, Guru Maharajer sange yodi tumi meet karo, tahole amader development Indiar . . . Bujhechen . . . (indistinct) . . . basise . . . (I approached, you didn't come in a rush, I approached that, "If you meet with Guru Mahārāja, then the development of India" . . . did you get . . . (indistinct) . . . on basis . . .)
Prabhupāda: So you can give this letter to Lalita.
Lalita Bose: Can I collect? I think I will go to Prema's office and give it to Sesha and make an appointment.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to give the letter?
Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?
Lalita Bose: I want that he should give. Ami caichi ye, apni dekha korben, cithi ta giye ami Seshar haate . . . (I want that you will meet her, and the latter I will give to the hand of Sesa . . .)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lalita Bose: Or ye secretory tar haate dilam. Diye appointment ta kore asi . . . better hobe na! Apni giye cithi deoa ta ami cai na. (I will give this to the hand of his secretary. If I make an appointment with this . . . that would be better.)
Prabhupāda: Na, na. No, no.
Lalita Bose: Ar oi record er opor ISKCONer kaj suru hoye yabe . . . (On the basis of that record, the work of ISKCON will be started . . .)
Prabhupāda: Read again, if there is to be corrected. Just hear, everyone. Apni . . . tumio sono . . . (You . . . you also listen . . .)
Lalita Bose: Amake . . . (Me . . .) (laughs)
Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with myself."
Prabhupāda: "With me. "
Lalita Bose: "With me."
Prabhupāda: "A meeting with me and you."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we say: "Miss Lalita Bose" or just "Miss Lalita"?
Lalita Bose: No, Lalita will do. That's all. She knows me.
Brahmānanda: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with me and you, and I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries such as Europe and America. By the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange." "Yours sincerely"?
Prabhupāda: "Yours sincerely" all right, or "Your well-wisher"?
Lalita Bose: "Well-wisher."
Prabhupāda: "Your well-wisher."
Lalita Bose: Apni . . . apnar yodi o ektu touch pay, bujhlen . . . mane . . . (Your . . . if she touches you, means . . .)
Prabhupāda: Sei janyai to ami elam . . . (That's why I have come . . .)
Lalita Bose: Bhetare jinis ache . . . (There is something within . . .)
Prabhupāda: Or bhetare ache jinis, oke ektu khani, nere cere tairi kore nite hobe . . . (There is something within her, I just need to shake . . .)
Lalita Bose: Hya, nyan . . . bas apnar . . . (Yes do it . . . just your . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ta, tumi sahayya karo, ami . . . o yodi thik cole . . . amar katha to noy, katha to Bhagavad-gītār, khali ektu bujhte hobe. Taholei kaj hoye yabe. Eta noy ye ami ekta manufacture kore tarpor suru korlam, tana, (So, you just help me, I . . . if she obeys . . . this is not my speeches, these speeches are from Bhagavad-gītā, you just need to understand. Then everything will be done. This is not like that, I have manufactured something and started, this is not like that,) word is already there. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete karīyā aikya.
Lalita Bose: Accha, apni ebar rest nin, apni tired . . . Maharaj ar ekta katha, dujoner sange yodi, ini o yan . . . (All right, you please take rest now, you are tired . . . one thing Mahārāja, if he goes with both you . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya, yabe to sakalei yabe. Yeye yakhan dekha korte yabo dui-ekjan yabe. (So immediately type it and give it to her. Yes, they will go, everyone will go. After arriving when I will go for a meeting then two or one person will go with me.)
Jayapatāka: Where it says that, "I am bringing foreign exchange" in the end, "by selling my books I am bringing foreign exchange," it's for India's development?
Prabhupāda: For developing my scheme here.
Jayapatāka: And Gopāla Kṛṣṇa mentioned the point that . . . we're bringing the foreign exchange. Whether there should be any word that also signifies that we have local support also?
Prabhupāda: Local support, that is understood.
Lalita Bose: Hya, local supporto ye apnar ache, seta ektu mention korle bhalo hoy. Karan ei khan kar lokera, khub receive korche . . . (Yes, that will be good if you mention that you also have local support. Because people from here also receiving so much . . .)
Prabhupāda: So our "Books popular in foreign countries as well as in India." We are getting money also by these books. Amader emni keu bises dicche na. (No one is giving to us without getting something.)
Brahmānanda: We have quotations from professors in America and also India.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lalita Bose: And which we will take, this one and the Professor Kajal. You will give one Gītā in your writing to . . . you will present Gītā. And you lead your life according to this teachings. Bas, ye bless korben, ar, (That's it, you just bless me, and,) she is full of bhakti. But she needs good guidance. Anandamayi Ma is doing, but she can't come to her. To apnar guidance ta hole practical guidance hobe. (Your guidance will be practical guidance.)
Prabhupāda: Na, yodi ora guidance ney, (to No, if they take guidance, then) I shall personally teach Bhagavad-gītā, her and her most confidential associates or who is governing. That I can do. Seta ekhane bolbar ucit noy, seta yodi raji hoy, karan ami to cacchi . . . amader point hocche, (I shouldn't mention that here, if they agree, because I want . . . our point is,) Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). I wanted a rājarṣi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rājarṣi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His movement became very successful when Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Aśoka, Mahārāja Aśoka, took it. It requires. And Kṛṣṇa says, rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Lalita Bose: Amar to mone hoy, Maharaj, karon o apnader bisaye kichu jene geche already. Ye interview hoyeche sob kichu, kothay, ki (I think Mahārāja, just because she already knows about you. The interview, what and when) because central intelligence. O yakhan jenei yabe ye, apnar eto sakti baire ache, se khub calak. (When she will understand that you are very powerful in foreign, she is so clever. She is very cunning. Yei bujhbe ye apnake diye kaj hobe o kintu . . . mane khub utilize korte jane, kintu or ye jinis gulo bairer lok bole, sei jinista kintu nei. Bhakti bhab ta kam ache. (Whenever she understands that you are useful for her . . . means she knows how to utilize. But she is not like that as the public speach about her. She doesn't have devotional feelings.)
Prabhupāda: Na, na seta o ami jani. Ta na hole ami press interview te katha bolbo keno ye, (No, no, I know this. Otherwise why I would say in the press interview that,) she is spiritually inclined. She goes to so many spiritual men, but they cannot give her guidance. That means she has some inclination. That I can understand. Just like these four American boys, they are after spiritual enlightenment, and all the svāmīs and yogīs who went there simply exploited them. Because they have no knowledge, neither they are prepared to take knowledge from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. That is their defect. That is their defect.
Lalita Bose: They have become Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore they could not give any . . .
Lalita Bose: Everybody is Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Lalita Bose: If you go anywhere, he is Bhagavān.
Prabhupāda: He is Bhagavān.
Lalita Bose: Now full Kali. Mane Kali yug, ekebare purna yanen? (Means the Kali-yuga, filled with that, you see?)
Prabhupāda: Eita te amader Indian culture ta nasta hoye geche. (By this our Indian culture has been ruined.)
Lalita Bose: Na, apnake ami ar ekta khabar dicchi, kenana ami sarbatra yai bujhlen, ebong apnar ei, organization dekhe eto amar santi legeche ye, (I am giving you other news, because I travel everywhere you see, and I felt so much peace after watching your organization.) Everybody is busy with their duties.
Prabhupāda: Ah, they are engaged.
Lalita Bose: No time to talk.
Prabhupāda: I don't allow them to sit down.
Lalita Bose: At other āśramas you go and see . . . I go every āśramas. So I reported that now you catch all the sādhus. I'm giving a secret letter that, "All the black-marketeers with them, sitting, chatting and patting, and you catch them. Then all the smugglers you will get." Sai Baba hocche main, mahila . . . ek mahilar kach theke tin crore taka niye bolche tumi ei ghare thako. Take ami bolchi tumi khabardar taka eno na, yei taka niye nebe, (Sai Baba is the main. After taking 3 crores from a lady, he was telling that you stay in this home. I warned her, you don't bring money, after taking all the money,) He will throw you out. And he is exploiting that girl, and I have got a picture, very bad picture, with him. Seta ami Prime Minister ke dekhiyechi ye, ei hocche ajkal "Bhagavān Satya Sai Baba." (I showed that to Prime Minister that, this is the Lord Satya Sai Baba of this time.) So she is very . . . she hates him. And Ekhon hocche main ye amader kaj hobe, ami apnake bolchi, (Now I am saying that "What will be our main work?"), I have seen Satya Sai Baba. I know he is, what type of man he is. Amra yodi grame, grame kaj arambha kore di, ebong government er ekta sefty thake, ar . . . (If we start working from village to village, and if there is the safety of government, and . . .)
Prabhupāda: Tumi . . . tumi eso . . . amake attain koriye dao, uni yete hobe na, uni yodi yan to foreign country te yan. O yodi bole (You just come and make me attend that meeting, she doesn't need to go, if she goes to a foreign country. And if she says) Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the foreign countries . . .
Lalita Bose: Americar sange or khub bhab karbar icche . . . (She always desires to make a relationship with America . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ami koriye debo . . . . (I will help to make . . .)
Lalita Bose: Seta apni bolben . . . ye, ei ye amader misunderstanding hocche, amar yerakam influence ache, seta to ami yani. Ora to khabar nilei janbe ye, (That's what you will say . . . that, "As you are misunderstanding us, as much influence I have," that I know. They will investigate and know that,) what personality you are.
Prabhupāda: Erai korbe, amar korte hobe na . . . (They will do, I have nothing to do . . .) thousands of Americans will do that. Thousands.
Lalita Bose: Yodi apnake kichu din, Māyāpur ba Vṛndāvana yekhane apanar sarir ta bhalo hoy, (If you are someday in Māyāpur or in Vṛndāvana wherever you feel healthy,) You just sit and write.
Prabhupāda: If you take my guidance I'll stay.
Lalita Bose: Ami bolchi . . . (I am telling . . .)
Prabhupāda: Amar (my) guidance means on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. I don't manufacture. That is my . . .
Lalita Bose: Ami eituku apnay bolchi Maharaj, ami raat duto teo apnar Krsna Consciouse yai, karan tin bachar age ID bolche ek jaygay ye, oder rate kore ar oder sob katake dhare, mane ratire type kore keno . . . takhan prasad bosche. Takhan ami prasad boste boli ye, apnara yaben na. Ami raat dutor samay yekhane yabar ami dekhe apnake report debo. Ebong ami thik oi Institute amar ek bandhu B.R.K Patel er stiri amar khub . . . o Sai Babar sisya, take ami boli ye ami thakbo tumi amay gari dao. Ami samsata report gulo kintu Prime Minister already pathiye diyechi. (Mahārāja at least I can tell you this, I go to your Kṛṣṇa Conscious at 2:00 am in the night, because 3 years ago the ID is saying in a place that, they have been caught at night just because why they type at night . . . then they were seating for prasadam. Then I asked them to seat for prasadam that, please you don't go now. I will give you report wherever I need to go at 2:00 am of night. And I have a friend right into that institute, the wife of B.R.K Patel . . . she is a very close friend . . . she is a disciple of Sai Baba, I told her that I will stay here and you give me your car, all these reports I already sent to the Prime Minister.) This is my experience about Prabhupāda's of the ISKCON. I am a layman . . .Ami . . . ami ISKCON er meye ora bar bar . . . (indistinct) . . . karan okhane ekta prasna korlo ora ye, (I am a girl of ISKCON, they are saying again and again . . . (indistinct) . . . because they have questioned me that,) how you are writing on behalf . . . what you are. Amito life member o na. To sekhane ami oke Bhabananda Maharaj ke bollam ye, pore ami Guru Maharaj ke bole debo, ami kichu na hole lekha yay na, (I am not a life member as well. So I told to Bhavananda Mahārāja that, I will tell everything to Guru Mahārāja, I can not write anything if I am nothing,) the member of the Advisory Council . . . Indira ji amay thik prasna korlen, (Indira ji also asked me,) "Who are you?" "I am a member of that Council." "I see. I see."
Prabhupāda: Amader bisay khub alocana hoyeche . . . (So they have discussed a lot about us . . .)
Lalita Bose: Na, eta khub . . . sunun rate hoy tarpore ami IG ke full report diyechi 'yekhane, raat dutor samay snan kore Hare Krsna kore, type ya korche samsa boi yara likhche, segulo korche tomra keno . . .' (This is very . . . listen I have given a full report to IG, "Where, at night two o'clock they take bath and do Hare Kṛṣṇa, type and write the books, these are they are doing, so why you . . .") then they comp . . . Takhan to Tarun Babu fabu aseni, sobe apni arki oder mandir ta diye cole giyechilen. Sei samay ami police der sange, ebong ekhon sob ceye baro katha ye, apnar (Then there Tarun Babu did not join, you just opened that temple and gave them and you went back. At that time I came with the police, and now the biggest thing is that,) report in West Bengal Security Force is a very good report about Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tarpore DM Nadia, SP Nadia sob ami korechi (After that DM Nadia, SP Nadia everything I did) with a very good report. "Please ask Prime Minister, allow them to stay."
Prabhupāda: Governor . . .
Lalita Bose: U.P.
Prabhupāda: Tini to amake ekebare Gurur matan sraddha koren . . . (He respects me as Guru . . .)
Lalita Bose: Apni ebar India te ektu . . . (Now you . . . in India . . . a little . . .)
Prabhupāda: Hya, India te yodi kaj hoy, to keno thkbo na! India to nicche na. Kono bhalo . . . tumi yeman agraha kore ascho, amader sob young boys, girls ache to. Ei janyei to amar ederke niye kaj korte hoy, ta na hole era ki khete esche amar kache? Kaj karbar keu nei, ei sob, yara basti bhalo bhalo chele meye ache, kaj korte caiche, esob sikhuk tara, village organize ye korbe, ke korbe? Eder ke niye karte hobe, ar era Indian nei. (Yes, if it works in India, then why won't I stay in India! India is not taking. Nothing good . . . as you have come with interest, we have young boys, and girls. That's why I need to work with them, otherwise they come with me to eat? I have no one to work with, these are . . . they are good boys and girls. They want to work, let them learn this, if they need to organize a village, then who will do it? I have to work with them, and there is no Indian. They must understand the philosophy. So is that all right? So make it.)
Lalita Bose: Ebar ta . . . apni ebar rest korun, amra tahole . . . (Then . . . now you please take rest, then we are . . .)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can go down.
Prabhupāda: Give her prasāda.
Jayapatāka: In case they want to see what type of . . . how we like to develop in the village scheme, should I keep the Māyāpur program ready?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lalita Bose: And immediately the work can . . .
Prabhupāda: These pictures and everything.
Jayapatāka: I wrote out the whole thing. As soon I can give it to you . . .
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You make . . . keep that . . . that I'll present personally, not now. Later.
Lalita Bose: When he is meeting, he will unveil. "Already we have started the schemes, and we can expand with the help of government." (break) Pare, ami giye Indira jir sathe dekha korbo . . . (After that, I will meet with Indira ji . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ei missionary, amar eksa lok ke yodi ami . . . (This missionary, if we . . . one hundred people of mine . . .)
Lalita Bose: Oita cithi ta te likhle bhalo hoto na? Cithi tate mention . . . apnar lekha ar eder lekha onek tafat. (Would it not have been better to write this in the latter? Mention in the latter . . . there is a huge difference between them and your writing.)
Prabhupāda: Oito ora . . . that they . . .
Lalita Bose: Eita ektu add kore debe? (Can you add this also?)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Lalita Bose: Tahole amader kaj ta egiye geche . . . (Then our work has progressed . . .)
Prabhupāda: Ota ami bolte caichi, (That I want to say, personal . . .)
Lalita Bose: Kintu ote personal, bolleo point deoa samay to bhule yabe. (But on that, to say personally for mentioning the point you may forget.) (to Brahmānanda) Listen, please, can you. One point.
Prabhupāda: Where is that letter?
Brahmānanda: To Indira Gandhi?
Prabhupāda: So mention that I require . . .
Lalita Bose: Hundred . . .
Prabhupāda: How many . . .
Brahmānanda: When you talk about "I . . . so we have already eight branches in India. All development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."
Prabhupāda: "And foreign assistance, about one hundred men." That's all.
Lalita Bose: Foreign ki? (what?) Men . . . foreign assistance mane (means) . . .
Prabhupāda: Foreign assistance . . .
Lalita Bose: Seta tai mane hobe? (The meaning will be that?)
Prabhupāda: Tai i hobe . . . (That should be . . .)
Lalita Bose: Ācchā! (All right!)
Brahmānanda: "Foreign assistance. numbering about one hundred"
Lalita Bose: Missionary . . . sei ta mention korben . . . (that should be mentioned.)
Prabhupāda: Then what is there?
Brahmānanda: "So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange and foreign assistance numbering about one hundred."
Prabhupāda: "Mostly. Mostly by foreign exchange and foreign assistance. Mostly." It is not that there is no Indian. Mostly.
Lalita Bose: "I want." "I want from you." Ekdom pariskar likhun ye, amar project calate hole, tomar missionary oi ye, yeta visa naki! Oita amay tomar dite hobe. (You just clearly write this, that to run my project, your missionary . . . visa or what! That you have to give me.)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So, "If you . . ."
Brahmānanda: "It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."
Prabhupāda: "By giving these foreigners missionary . . ." What is called? "Missionary visa"? Is that all right?
Lalita Bose: Missionary visa ito bole, Citizenshipo apni neben? (Will you take citizenship as well by mentioning the missionary visa?)
Prabhupāda: Na, ota yodi, nai likhi tahole ki hoy? (No, what will happen if I don't write that?)
Lalita Bose: Na, oita caiche to ora, apnar kach theke. (No, actually they are asking that from you.)
Prabhupāda: Oh!
Lalita Bose: Apnar caoa, ar oder caoa, onek parthakya ache . . . (There is a big difference between what they want and what you want . . .)
Prabhupāda: What you have said?
Brahmānanda: "It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government . . ."
Prabhupāda: "By allowing these foreign assistant as missionary men." That's all.
Brahmānanda: "As missionaries."
Prabhupāda: "As missionary men." Or "missionaries."
Lalita Bose: "Missionaries . . ." bolle hobe, (will be perfect,) so they will see in what way they can best . . .
Prabhupāda: That's all. Jaya. (end)
- 1975 - Conversations
- 1975 - Lectures and Conversations
- 1975 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters
- 1975-08 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters
- Conversations - India
- Conversations - India, Bombay
- Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India
- Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Bombay
- Conversations and Lectures with Bengali Snippets
- 1975 - New Audio - Released in May 2014
- Audio Files 60.01 to 90.00 Minutes