720801 - Conversation - London

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720801R1-LONDON - August 01, 1972 - 57:46 Minutes

Prabhupāda: ". . . American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." Hmm.

Śyāmasundara: Did you have some places to see, Dhanañjaya, for Prabhupāda to see in the next day or two?

Dhanañjaya: There's this one big church building we have seen . . .

Prabhupāda: You have got? Tell me.

Dhanañjaya: . . . in Hammersmith, and I thought he could see next week, Monday or Tuesday.

Prabhupāda: Where is Himavatī?

Haṁsadūta: She's . . .

Prabhupāda: Heh?

Haṁsadūta: I think she's upstairs in the . . .

Prabhupāda: Call her.

Prabhupāda: Ah bring. Come on.

Śyāmasundara: There is one very large church . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Śyāmasundara: . . . to see on Monday.

Prabhupāda: In Monday.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. Not before.

Prabhupāda: Why not before?

Dhanañjaya: Well, we can arrange for this week also for sure.

Śyāmasundara: Try to do as soon as possible.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Dhanañjaya: It's in Hammersmith. Hammersmith.

Prabhupāda: Hm. How far?

Dhanañjaya: From here its about five miles, four or five miles.

Śyāmasundara: It's, ah, towards the airport.

Prabhupāda: Towards the airport. So not bad.

Śyāmasundara: Not bad. No, it's still downtown.

Dhanañjaya: It's on the motorway. It's very near to the motorway, that motorway coming from the airport into central London.

Prabhupāda: So why not see earlier? Have you got any description?

Dhanañjaya: Well, we can't see it earlier because it belongs to the Methodist Church, and their committee members are meeting in another city, in Manchester, for a week. They have their . . . a big congress meeting there. So they don't come back until the end of this week.

Śyāmasundara: So we can't see it while they're meeting?

Dhanañjaya: Well we could see it from the outside. The caretaker should be there. Actually, we went there one day, Mr. Aran and Niṣkala and myself.

Prabhupāda: Well, what is the description?

Dhanañjaya: It's very nice. It's something like, ah, something like the size of this temple, but bigger.

Śyāmasundara: Bigger than Los Angeles?

Dhanañjaya: And also it has a steeple.

Prabhupāda: Bigger, bigger. What is the price?

Dhanañjaya: Oh, more than £250,000, £250,000.

Śyāmasundara: Quarter of a million pounds. Two lakhs of pounds.

Devotee: So that's six million dollars?

Dhanañjaya: No, one million. One million dollars.

Prabhupāda: You have got?

Śyāmasundara: No, it's not a million dollars. It's only 600,000.

Devotee: Six hundred thousand dollars.

Dhanañjaya: Well they said between 250,000 and 350,000 pounds.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, the money, the money won't be as important as the place. If we get the place, we can get the money, I think.

Dhanañjaya: But still there is a congregation. It's not available immediately.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Dhanañjaya: There's a congregation there still.

Revatīnandana: You have no idea when it would be available?

Śyāmasundara: Tomorrow I will go out, some of the others will go out, we'll find some places to look at for you. I have some friends, we'll all go see them.

Prabhupāda: So what do you think of this Dr. Sar? As he speaks, it is all right, do you think?

Śyāmasundara: Is he trustworthy?

Prabhupāda: He speaks more than what he is?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, he speaks more than what he is.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Revatīnandana: Yes. I, I, I never liked him very much. I, I don't know what his motive is, you know. I don't think his motive is strictly devotional, you know?

Dhanañjaya: He approached me, and he said . . . I was talking about Life Members to him, saying: "Why shouldn't it be one hundred pounds? This is a good price for Life Members." And he said: "Well, £51, this is the value of one thousand one hundred and eight rupees."

He said: "I am prepared to give £51." Then he said: "Actually, I have given already more than £51. I have given Kṛṣṇa's jewelry, so why you don't make me Life Member?" And I said, "But you have been asked." And he said: "But I have given at least . . ."

Śyāmasundara: Why not make him Life Member. He's given all the jewelry.

Prabhupāda: But Is he a very influential man?

Dhanañjaya: What's the definition of influential man?

Prabhupāda: Oh he's not very . . . he talks?

Dhanañjaya: He talks a bit about his community, but he's not produced anything from his community. Nothing. He's produced some money for the jewelry which is very nice.

Śyāmasundara: His personal money. Personal money?

Dhanañjaya: Not just personal money, no.

Śyāmasundara: He's raised it.

Prabhupāda: Do you think he can help us raising fund?

Dhanañjaya: He can help, but I don't think he can raise thousands and thousands and thousands. See, personally he has no money. He told me he has no money. He's simply at his job, he gets so much money.

Prabhupāda: And he's working somewhere?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, he's working. He's in Oxford Street, very near.

Prabhupāda: And he says that he's M.A., Ph.D.? Is he? So? He says so.

Dhanañjaya: Yes, he's a graduate.

Śyāmasundara: He's a doctor, a Ph.D.?

Dhanañjaya: But still not so influential it seems.

Prabhupāda: Neither reliable. Is he reliable?

Dhanañjaya: Well, he's said so many times, "I can help, I can help." But still he's not produced anything positive.

Prabhupāda: This carpet was donated by him?

Dhanañjaya: Yes, this rug.

Śyāmasundara: This? This has been here for years. In the beginning he did, I guess. Mukunda would know him.

Prabhupāda: So you can ask Nanda-kumāra to give me milk in that way.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Or you can ask Himavatī. What is your formula?

Revatīnandana: Ginger powder and a little bit of saffron and sugar. Heat it up for a while, and then afterwards mix thoroughly and serve like that. It's good for digestion.

Prabhupāda: You give Nanda-kumāra, because he will give.

Revatīnandana: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Kiran, tomar khobor ki? Cholche . . . kon mondire thako tumi? (Kiran, how are you? Everything's fine . . . which temple do you stay in?)

Man: Ami Birmingham e chilam. Ta Birmingham mondir ta bondho kore dewa hoyeche. Tai ekhane . . . (indistinct) . . . sankirtan party niye jacche . . . (indistinct) . . . Birmingham ar Cardiff . . . (indistinct) . . . mondir . . . (I was in Birmingham. The temple in Birmingham has been closed down. So here . . . (indistinct) . . . going with the sankīrtan party . . . (indistinct) . . . to Birmingham and Cardiff . . . (indistinct) . . . temples . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ekhon ekhanei acho? (Are you staying here right now?)

Man: Ha. (Yes.)

Prabhupāda: Accha. (Okay.)

Śyāmasundara: She was very happy, Sumati Morarji.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: She went away very happy.

Prabhupāda: Everyone will be happy when you are Kṛṣṇa devotee. You see? She's seeing Kṛṣṇa's so many devotees. That is Kṛṣṇa bhakta.

Devotee (2): She said she wanted to see the Deities before leaving.

Prabhupāda: And she saw?

Revatīnandana: Two months ago she came here for most of the āratik āratrika ceremony. The devotees came out to say goodbye to her, and she said, "Go back and do āratrika."

Prabhupāda: She can influence the whole Bombay, she's so . . .

Śyāmasundara: Oh, she knows everyone.

Dhanañjaya: We need a president like her for the board of trustees for London also. Has she had any assistance?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. She is doing her best. She is nice.

Śyāmasundara: When is Mr. . . . (indistinct) . . . going to come?

Dhanañjaya: He's going to drive Prabhupāda to Kensington tomorrow.

Śyāmasundara: Tomorrow?

Dhanañjaya: Or Friday.

Śyāmasundara: He can't come before? He should come . . .

Revatīnandana: He comes almost every night, actually.

Śyāmasundara: Next time he comes, have him come . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: And the Joshi is the manager here?

Śyāmasundara: That's her manager here.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, then he's the one who should know everything. She said she would carry everything for us practically around the world . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: . . . on her boats. We have many mṛdaṅgas, everything in India sent.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. In Calcutta. From Calcutta, their ship starts for all over the world. So simply . . . but Calcutta manager is rascal. Calcutta manager, that is difficult.

Śyāmasundara: Why not we send . . . why don't we send a hundred or two hundred mṛdaṅgas to America and Europe, big shipments, sometime? We could really use them down through the years.

Prabhupāda: But I know that Calcutta manager, he is a . . . haramzyada . . . (rascal . . .) (laughs)

Revatīnandana: They won't become . . . they have many . . . all the big men in the Calcutta House, they won't become Life Members. None of them. I approached them. None of them will become Life Members.

Prabhupāda: Calcutta House?

Revatīnandana: That Calcutta Scindia office. There's several big men. The one I remember is Mr. Trivedi. I don't know if he's the head man.

Prabhupāda: Trivedi.

Revatīnandana: Yeah. I talked to him, but he will not become a Life Member. He wouldn't even give that much rupees. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: They are not very highly paid. Within thousand. In Japan also. High salary is in your country.

Śyāmasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Unexpected fabulous. (chuckles) Just like that boy who came to see me yesterday. He's Engineer.

Śyāmasundara: Gopal.

Prabhupāda: He's getting $900. That means our ten thousand rupees. Gopal is also not getting. I asked Gopal to continue his service and give $400 per month.

Śyāmasundara: Hmm. Each month. That's good. Very good.

Prabhupāda: So here we shall give you books, cost price only, and you sell books by profit only and spend for building.

Dhanañjaya: Traveling Saṅkīrtana Party is very strong here. There's some very nice boys here. . . . (indistinct)

Revatīnandana: They go out and they simply distribute, and just like I think in San Francisco, Keśava's . . . he began it here. They just go out with literature and simply to distribute literature, you know, in that way.

Prabhupāda: So Keśava is feeling not well there, he can come here.

Śyāmasundara: He wanted to. He wanted to bring his party here.

Prabhupāda: Do that. Let him do that. Write him.

Revatīnandana: But actually he may improve it even more. They are already a good group. They are doing all right.

Prabhupāda: Very expert. Not only good, very expert.

Dhanañjaya: They're averaging sixty, seventy pounds a day.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dhanañjaya: Sixty, seventy pounds a day they're collecting.

Prabhupāda: You are not collecting so much?

Dhanañjaya: What's that?

Prabhupāda: You are not collecting so much?

Dhanañjaya: Here in the temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhanañjaya: Well, we are collecting, on Oxford Street, we're collecting about forty, fifty pounds a day, and on traveling saṅkīrtana, sixty, seventy pounds, because they're doing it for more hours. So altogether we're over a hundred pounds a day.

Prabhupāda: Now your GBC here. He has come. Now he make it hundred pounds daily. How to do it, he knows.

Dhanañjaya: But, but already there is one hundred pounds daily coming. Two hundred pounds, then.

Prabhupāda: And his best friend is George. (laughs)

Śyāmasundara: I'm going to see him tomorrow. Is he in town?

Prabhupāda: He can alone make . . . purchase a good temple. George alone can purchase.

Śyāmasundara: He says George is in New York.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct conversation)

Śyāmasundara: When is he back?

Devotee: About a week . . . (indistinct)

Dhanañjaya: Oh, he may be with Mr. Ravi Patel. I think we saw him at the airport.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Dhanañjaya: He's a printer, and he came in the van with you from the airport. He's a very nice man. He's doing a lot of printing for us. He says he has so many thousands of rupees in Bombay and in Madras from his printing. And he also wants to offer his services. I think he will come tomorrow to see you.

Prabhupāda: Let him print our books, in Bombay.

Dhanañjaya: He said he wanted to offer his services here for this temple somehow or other by getting money from advertising purposes. He's the director of some company that's just been started. It's called Golden Products. They make all kinds of consumer goods, shampoos and soap powders, so many things like that, for household use. And he wanted to use his symbol, Golden Products, with this Society. This is his idea.

Prabhupāda: Golden powder?

Dhanañjaya: Golden Products.

Prabhupāda: In our Society? No.

Dhanañjaya: I told him.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Devotee: Who is he?

Dhanañjaya: He went to the airport today.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There was a boy.

Dhanañjaya: His other idea was . . . he said he was working for Sai Baba, Satya Sai Baba. He said in India he had raised so many thousands of lakhs of rupees by making posters. They are impersonal posters, so much nonsense on them, but they sold like lottery tickets. In this way he printed them and made so much money.

Prabhupāda: I mean, he cannot suggest. We cannot accept anyone's suggestion.

Dhanañjaya: Yeah.

Devotee: That's proven to be too . . . too horrible.

Devotee (2): Yes, to always.

Śyāmasundara: I saw Mr. . . . who was that? What's that man's name who made our first record in New York?

Devotee: Kallman.

Śyāmasundara: Ah, I saw Mr. Kallman at the airport when you arrived in New York at that meeting, press meeting.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was there?

Śyāmasundara: He was there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, why did he not see me?

Śyāmasundara: He didn't come. He was a little embarrassed, I think.

Prabhupāda: He must be embarrassed. He's a thief. (laughter) Dishonest man never becomes happy. He did not pay me anything as royalty for the record.

Devotee: Hmm.

Haṁsadūta: He's still selling it, too.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: He's still selling that record. Still making money

Prabhupāda: Yes. Must be selling, and taking advantage of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Haṁsadūta: That's a nice record.

Devotee (3): Is that Govinda?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: That's a very nice record. Everyone is appreciating.

Prabhupāda: But I heard that rascal always play my record and hear Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: At least he's benefiting somehow. I saw him in Bombay also, one day in the market of Madhubhag, Madhubhag temple? He was buying beads for his store in New York.

Prabhupāda: He's selling beads, record, on our account. (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: He was being cheated himself, in Bombay. He was being cheated like anything. He was paying one rupee for one strand of beads, those poor quality beads. (pause) Do you have a car?

Prabhupāda: Now you can arrange for the car?

Devotee: Yes. Ātreya Ṛṣi is going to be working on it, too, to raise funds.

Prabhupāda: So, at least two first-class car must go to India.

Śyāmasundara: Cadillac?

Prabhupāda: Any. They must recognize, "Here the American guru is going." (laughter)

Devotee: Have to get Cadillac.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) If the American guru has no car, he's walking on the street, that is disgrace for you. Is it not? (laughs) And they criticize, "Oh, what kind of guru you are, you are walking on the street? You are American guru?"

Śyāmasundara: I was thinking if each devotee in the United States went out . . .

Prabhupāda: You write on the car, "The Spiritual Master of USA." (laughter) And people will see, "Oh, here is the spiritual . . ." (laughs)

Śyāmasundara: Should we do that? "Spiritual Master of USA"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is . . .? Why not? (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: It's a fact. If each of your devotees collected five dollars one day, that's $5,000. More. More than $5,000.

Prabhupāda: That you . . . and soon as you issue letter, that will come. It is not very difficult. And she will carry. Make arrangement with the government so next time when I go to India, I sit on the car. That's all.

Devotee: And Gurudasa . . . actually, we'd better do it soon, because it takes two or three months.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so you can do.

Devotee: We can talk about the details later.

Prabhupāda: That I am immigrant here, I've stayed since 1965. The embassy, everyone, knows. So I can take my cars, that there is a law. So in this way take permission from the government, and you get the car, and I go and drive it. That's all.

Devotee: You'll take this car with you, Prabhupāda, wherever you go?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: You will take this car with you wherever you go?

Prabhupāda: As far as possible. People will see, "The spiritual master of USA is going there."

Śyāmasundara: Supposing you want to go to Bombay. You can fly to Bombay and someone can drive the car there. And then when you're in Bombay, you can drive it in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, you can go from Calcutta to Agra, nice road. And from Agra to Bombay.

Śyāmasundara: How many days? Two days?

Prabhupāda: No, no. One day, two days. Yes. Even if it runs fifty mile per hour, so from morning, early morning to noon, say six hours if we run, it's three hundred miles in the morning and three hundred miles in the evening, and stay at night. And then the next day three hundred miles, three hundred . . . six hundred miles.

Twelve hundred miles means anywhere you go from Calcutta to Bombay, Calcutta to Madras, Calcutta to Delhi, within twelve hundred miles. Within two days from anywhere to anywhere you can go. India's length and breadth is not so wide as in your country. You have got . . . that is also not good road, in your . . . but in Calcutta, to Calcutta–Bombay, Madras, Delhi, there are good roads.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Good roads. So we can go by road.

Devotee: So begin campaigning right away, collecting funds for the vehicle.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (to Śyāmasundara) And you are a good driver. (laughter) Eighty miles. You once went eighty miles, his father's car. His father gave a very nice car for my riding. His father, mother, sister met me in Portland. Very nice gentleman, mother nice, sister very beautiful.

Śyāmasundara: But silent.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: I have written to her some letters, but silence.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They are not very happy that you are in this movement; not in the family, naturally. They think, "Our lost child." (laughter) They cannot appreciate that, "My child is lost for better purpose." That is the case.

Revatīnandana: Actually, I wanted to ask you about something like that. When I took sannyāsa in Calcutta, some time afterward, I used to correspond with my parents. So I sent them a letter explaining what was sannyāsa, I had taken sannyāsa, and that I didn't want to hear so much more about nieces, nephews, things like that that I have in that family.

I said: "If you want to talk, now we should talk about Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So I didn't hear anything from them for about six months. But just the other day I received a letter . . .

Prabhupāda: Then don't. Now you have taken sannyāsa, you don't.

Revatīnandana: I shouldn't do it at all.

Prabhupāda: No.

Revatīnandana: But she's quite intelligent. She's asking . . .

Prabhupāda: Your mother?

Revatīnandana: Yeah . . . all about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. She has the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: Your mother, your mother must be intelligent because you are intelligent. Your mother must be intelligent. Without mother being intelligent, no intelligent son comes out. A son inherits the quality of mother, and the daughter inherits the quality of father. This is natural.

Revatīnandana: So the letter is so . . . she's told me, she says: "Two reasons I want to hear from you: one, I want to know how you are," that's the body. She says also, "I'm interested in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement," because she's noticed that the devotees . . .

Prabhupāda: That is mother's anxiety. You see all this?

Revatīnandana: So I should not respond?

Prabhupāda: Hmm, you can send news: "Mother, I'm all right." That's all.

Revatīnandana: That's all right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't worry. No. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also was sending news to His mother.

Revatīnandana: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: Although He never went to mother.

Revatīnandana: It's hard for the family, because my mother's brother is Viṣṇujana Mahārāja's father, right? So they also figure they have lost one son. They don't hear from him at all, and now she doesn't hear from me at all. So the whole family is very miserable. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. But they have lost for the better.

Revatīnandana: Yes, but they don't understand that. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Lost not in vain. They will be benefited. They will be benefited. You are giving the best service to the family. What about your mother, Himavatī?

Himavatī: I never hear from her anymore.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Himavatī: I never hear from her anymore.

Prabhupāda: She's also not very happy?

Himavatī: No. I don't think she's very happy with me.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyway, you serve Kṛṣṇa and then your mother will be best served. Kṛṣṇa will favor all the family members of a devotee. You have seen from Prahlāda Maharaja's statement. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that anyone coming to become His devotee, He takes care of the family of the devotee—spiritually, for their emancipation.

That is natural. Just like government. If somebody dies in the war field, the government takes care of the whole family. Similarly, if the government has so much sense, do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is nonsense? He also takes care of the family of the devotee. Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Where is Nanda-kumāra, Pradyumna?

Śyāmasundara: Pradyumna's been studying all day. Ah . . . Nanda-kumāra may be . . . is he there in the room?

Prabhupāda: No, I don't want. Maybe sleeping?

Devotee: He is tired.

Prabhupāda: Not very tired. What was it?

Devotee: Pradyumna didn't take rest last night, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: Pradyumna . . . Nanda-kumāra was sleeping.

Śyāmasundara: Charlie Chaplin kept us up all night.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śyāmasundara: Charlie Chaplin kept us up all night. (laughs) Charlie Chaplin film.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That was nice. (laughter) He is really funny man. (laughs) He has got originality. All his comic play has got some originality. That is the beauty. How he invented! (laughs) I think that character, when he was a drunkard, he's a great friend. (laughs) When he's not drunkard, "Who is this man?" (laughs) He's grave, as rich man.

And as drunkard, "You'll pay him. You are my friend, life-long friend. Whatever you want, you take." (laughs) So these characters he's painting, it's very good intelligence. And he made him friend when he was going to commit suicide.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, he stopped him.

Prabhupāda: He stopped him. Accidentally he stopped. (laughs) Not willingly.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. He tried to pull him up from the water, and he went in himself. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: It is very nice, funny man, with intelligence. And before him there was another, Mr. Max Linder.

Śyāmasundara: Max Linder.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was also very funny Englishman. In our childhood we used to enjoy their play, Max Linder and Chaplin, ah, Charlie Chaplin.

Haṁsadūta: They were showing them in India?

Prabhupāda: Uh? Yes. Max Linder, I remember, he was sitting in a park. (laughter) You know?

Revatīnandana: No. I don't know anything about it.

Prabhupāda: He was sitting in a park, so that English dress, that tail coat? What is called?

Śyāmasundara: Coattails, yeah.

Prabhupāda: So the tail was hanging, so some naughty boy, they fixed up nails, you see? So when he got up, the whole tail gone, you see? But he could not understand. He went to the ball dance. So he was dancing, so everyone's seeing to his tail, in this way. So he thought, "What is the matter?" He went to the mirror and he saw, "Oh, my tail is lost." (laughs)

Then he came again in the ball dance and he was pushing everyone, just to show. And everyone asking, "What is this? What is this?" "Oh, you do not know? This is latest fashion. This is latest fashion." Then all of them cut the tails. I think he had taken the idea, laṅguli-hīna śṛgala (Hitopadeśa). This is Sanskrit story, that laṅguli-hīna śṛgala, or monkey, he lost his tail, and he began to advertise, "This is the latest fashion."

So that ball-dancing without tail, that was, I remember, it is very laughing. They say that Charlie Chaplin is the student of Max Linder. He learned this funny play from Max Linder. So I knew Charlie Chaplin is a Englishman.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, he is.

Prabhupāda: He is Englishman.

Haṁsadūta: He went to America and then he made all these films.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: He went to America and he made a lot of money there.

Indian man: As far as I know, Prabhupāda, he was Jew, but he used to live in east of London, or south of London. There is an autobiography about it.

Prabhupāda: Max Linder, ah, Charlie Chaplin? Yes. He was a London man.

Śyāmasundara: But that movie was filmed in Los Angeles, the one we saw last night. In Hollywood. All the palm trees and the mountains behind.

Indian man: One of his elder sons, he's still living in Hampstead Heath. He has got the house in Hampstead Heath.

Prabhupāda: Oh, his eldest son. And where he is, Charlie Chaplin?

Devotee: In America.

Prabhupāda: In America?

Devotee: He's lives in Switzerland.

Indian man: No, no, he lives in the Europe somewhere. Switzerland, most . . . sometimes coming in Hampstead Heath.

Devotee: Geneva. I think Geneva.

Prabhupāda: He has got big family?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You said that he's producing still child?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, he produced last year, or two years ago.

Indian man: He married again.

Haṁsadūta: It was in Life magazine.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (pause)

Haṁsadūta: It's already about 10:30.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees leave)

Prabhupāda: So ask Pradyumna if he wants to give.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . viṣaya chāḍiyā. Oh, yes, then it is . . . (indistinct) . . . viṣaya chāḍiyā, se rase majiyā mukhe bolo hari hari, parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana (Gaura-Nityānander Dayā 2). But even if we do speculation business and do it for Kṛṣṇa, that is not good.

Śyāmasundara: Not so high a class.

Prabhupāda: We are doing little business because gṛhasthas, they require money. All right, do some incense, this, that. That's all. Not very big business. If one is expert like Arjuna or Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, that is different thing. Just like this Advaita, he was given in Press.

Now he sees that, "I can work anywhere else, I can get money. Why should I waste my time?" He neglected. That means viṣaya attracted him. He thought, "I am qualified man. Why should I waste my time with this Press?" Therefore he gone to hell. He sacrificed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and now he's getting some money he's satisfied. He's thinking that he has become a big man.

Śyāmasundara: Ātreya Ṛṣi went to see them in New York the last day, but they wouldn't come.

Prabhupāda: Both . . . (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They are getting money from other karmīs, so why they should come? They are thinking that "As family man we must make money." Ato gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair, huh? House, land, children, friends, money for increasing their illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Then entanglement. Finish.

He does not know that he is being finished, and he's thinking that, "I am making profit." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta. This rascal, he's being defeated. He does not know. He got the chance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he sacrificed Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he is attracted by little pounds, dollar. (pause) But his wife is good, Balai Dāsī. She is coming.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, she came to maṅgala-ārati.

Prabhupāda: She comes, and she said: "Then we live separately," Advaita. He (she) doesn't like. He's such a rascal. Such a nice, good, beautiful wife, and he's neglecting. Milk, here they take cold milk, and they. No. Milk should be hot, and it should be taken little, little.

Śyāmasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of taking milk. And this masalā, it has made taste good. In India, especially in Northern India, Punjab, they will take at night milk, invariably. No other things. They, all businessmen, the Marwari Gujaratis, they'll take food before evening, and then again they work.

Then after ten they will come home and take little milk and go. (pause) So fund-raising committee maybe established in Bombay, making her the president of the Trust. Then Giriraja will have no difficulty.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: They will contribute. And if she canvasses, she can collect lakhs.

Śyāmasundara: But one thing is, if Giriraja takes advantage and begins preaching in her school daily . . . she's invited him, open invitation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then it will be pleased.

Śyāmasundara: Then when she'll see her students improve, and she'll give us all the help.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have got land, many people will contribute materials. Materials . . . if we get materials from many big, big merchants . . .

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, like, ah, Tarachand.

Prabhupāda: Cement, iron, they will . . . "All right. Give it." Goods, anyone will give.

Śyāmasundara: Tarachand Gupta, I think his name is.

Prabhupāda: He is also our Life Member. He is nice.

Śyāmasundara: Iron merchant.

Prabhupāda: He wanted to invite me one day. He met me on the path. Do you remember?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, I remember.

Prabhupāda: He's one of the richest men.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. I think when you go back there the next year, or next autumn . . .

Prabhupāda: Now we have created some impression that we are doing something nice. Even Keating is also impressed.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. We're not wandering from village to village anymore. We're settled.

Prabhupāda: No. Even we wander from village to village, people are being impressed that we are doing something good. Actually it is so. I tell you it is so. One who cannot understand it, he is a fool. Actually we are doing the best work, God consciousness.

And actually it is a fact: simply for want of God consciousness they are suffering. That's all. There is no other reason. The only reason is this. Just like this morning I said that, "God is the proprietor. Why you are claiming proprietor? You may be manager, not proprietor." Actually, that is our position. Just like I am head of this institution, but I am not dealing as proprietor. I am dealing as manager, head. Is it not?

Śyāmasundara: This is the only society where Kṛṣṇa is the owner of everything.

Prabhupāda: And all my assistants, they are also working in that capacity. If I would have been proprietor, then they would not have been interested.

Śyāmasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: I would have collected the money and used for my sense gratification. Then nobody would help me.

Śyāmasundara: I think the English milk is better than American milk, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: I think so. This is from Holland.

Śyāmasundara: Oh. There's some famous islands between England and Holland called the Jersey Islands. There's special milk comes from Jersey. Jersey milk, the best.

Prabhupāda: No. These Europeans, Americans, if they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they'll be more happy. That is assured. From all angles of vision—their family life, their political life, their social life, their cultural life, their religious life, their philosophical life, their scientific life—everything will be perfect.

Now you have to teach them. I can give you the ideas how they'll be happy. The rascals, they do not know why . . . they ask, "What is your specialness?" and "Just to teach you this. My only ambition is that you are . . ."

(aside) Oh, there is no water.

"You are supposed to be the most intelligent persons. So if you take, others will take." That is my aim.

So I have no distinction between East and West. They're thinking that East is conquering West by culture. That is their enviousness. (laughter) That is, they are afraid. Because the Britishers, they kept Indian culture suppressed so long because . . . (break) . . . amongst the Kṣatriya, kings, in special cases. Not for public. Among the Kṣatriyas.

And among the Vaiśyas, one day in a year, on Diwali to try one's luck. One day they will bet. Not amongst the Brāhmins or the Śūdras. Śūdras have no money to gamble, and Brāhmins prohibited. The Kṣatriyas, they are also allowed in special cases, and Vaiśyas were allowed to engage in gambling one day in a year. That means restricted.

Śyāmasundara: Boy, that system of dharma . . . we can start discussing it tomorrow in our philosophy class. It's just so perfect. Everything is . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Whole plan is perfect.

Śyāmasundara: But the British systematically broke it down.

Prabhupāda: Because Lord Macaulay gave them in this study, they said that if you keep the Indians in their original culture, then they cannot be broken. Gandhi took that state: noncooperation. Don't cooperate with them. And then kill them.

Śyāmasundara: This man who wrote this book made an interesting comment. He said that after . . . or before the First World War, when the British were entering the First World War, they got the . . . they made a promise to the Indians that, "If you help us fight this war, then we will give you freedom afterwards."

Prabhupāda: They did not.

Śyāmasundara: They helped, but they didn't give them freedom. So Gandhi or the others, they took that Azad. "They have broken their promise, so now we can break our cooperation, noncooperation."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They actually expanded their empire they only won the two war by Indian cooperation. Therefore these big men like Attlee, when they thought that, "India is going out of our hand," so don't dream of our empire. Forget it. They voluntarily quit it.

Śyāmasundara: The whole thing. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Now they are not, those Englishmen, as they were in Victoria days all. Nobody cares for you.

Śyāmasundara: You'll see the last remnants at that Commonwealth Club, I think, engagement. No more, no one cares.

Prabhupāda: Commonwealth is in name. (pause)

Śyāmasundara: Still, there is something about London. Everyone likes to come here. There's so many . . . there's not enough hotel rooms even.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Śyāmasundara: There's not even enough hotel rooms to accommodate so many tourists who come here to London.

Prabhupāda: London is still famous. People outside, they have got very high idea about London.

Śyāmasundara: Civilized. Very civilized city.

Prabhupāda: Why civilized? Do you think it is especially civilized?

Śyāmasundara: Well, a lot more than America, anyway. By comparison it seems civilized, in the sense there is not so much violence. There's not . . . people are honest, upright, moral, a little more.

Prabhupāda: In America general life is becoming wretched.

Śyāmasundara: Wretched. Police don't even carry guns here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Śyāmasundara: Policemen don't even carry guns in Britain, but in America every policeman's got at least one gun.

Prabhupāda: The Englishmen . . . I've studied Englishmen. They consider America is still (un)civilized. They say like that. They, in making up.

Śyāmasundara: Still uncivilized, yeah.

Prabhupāda: But here also hippy-ism growing.

Śyāmasundara: They've lost that old aristocracy civilization. Losing it fast. (pause)

Prabhupāda: So write Girirāja immediately a letter, that she has agreed to become the president of the Trust. You make a Trust body for fund-raising, and our best Life Members, and Sumati Morarji, and make her the president of the Trust. You remain the secretary, and other also, as treasurer also. One or two of her own men.

Śyāmasundara: Just a small number. Not a big Trust.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. In this way you raise fund.

Śyāmasundara: Meanwhile, he should start utilizing her invitation to teach in the school sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and she'll cooperate. And write letter for permission for carrying our motorcar and incense.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, and inform Gurudāsa . . .

Prabhupāda: She has already agreed that, ah, what is called? Punks? The punks sent to Calcutta, and from there they carry to Los Angeles.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. I'm wondering why they can't take them directly.

Prabhupāda: Directly not very many ships come to Hong Kong.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, from Hong Kong that way, that direction, they don't come. They come on their way back. I see. Yeah, they take Chinese goods from Hong Kong to India.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: They take Chinese goods from Hong Kong to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Śyāmasundara: There's not many from Hong Kong to America.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore she said send to the . . . India. Take information.

Śyāmasundara: Transfer to another boat. That will save them a thousand dollars a month.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That's a thousand dollar contribution.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. And as it grows, it will increase.

Prabhupāda: And send them a Gujarati papers, our magazine, distribution amongst their workers. Very satisfying, they will be satisfy.

Śyāmasundara: Hmm. Tell that to Girirāja?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Hundred, two hundred magazines.

Prabhupāda: Not hundred. Say fifty, for distribution amongst his officers.

Śyāmasundara: Oh.

Prabhupāda: So that everyone will be satisfied.

Śyāmasundara: I think Kṣīrodakśāyī has the information on that car business. Because he once inquired and got papers. He may have them here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So make arrangement, at least two cars, nice cars.

Śyāmasundara: One car, one van?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Śyāmasundara: One car and one van?

Prabhupāda: Van? What is the use of van?

Śyāmasundara: Well, they can carry many people, that's the thing, like a saṅkīrtana party.

Prabhupāda: Saṅkīrtana may be six men. They can go in car.

Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Yeah.

Prabhupāda: And better for carrying our luggage, add in the car some small . . .

Śyāmasundara: Trailer.

Prabhupāda: . . . trailer, yes, two . . . two wheel. Oh, it will go.

Devotee: The advantage of the van is that they can sleep in it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: The advantage of a van is that it can be used for sleeping purposes also.

Prabhupāda: Sleeping purpose in India, tropical country, if you carry camp, if you want to sleep somewhere you just immediately set up a camp and pass night very comfortably. And you go on the field passing stool. Just catch up some watery place. (laughter) Then you can cook, you can take bath, you can wash your dishes, then put up on the trailer and go on.

Śyāmasundara: Mostly we'll be going to big . . .

Prabhupāda: Or if you can send one van also, two cars and one van.

Śyāmasundara: Mostly we'll be going to bigger cities anyway. The roads between big cities are all right. But if we go places . . .

Prabhupāda: Work sincerely and everything will be supplied by Kṛṣṇa. Now take . . . (break) (end)