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Indian man (1): Real ego. That is the reason. That is the reason.

Prabhupāda: So long I'll think that, "I am Patel. I am master of this man . . ." (Dr. Patel talking simultaneously) Koi baat nahin hum Kṛṣṇa bhakt hain. No problem, as long as I am a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. People are, I mean to say, entangled with these all upādhis. So therefore bhakti begins when one is upādhi-less. No more upādhi. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). That is real ego.

Dr. Patel: That is complete submersion of your ego. Dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsa. I mean, after Aapka śarīra bhi bus. Your body also . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora, arpiluṅ tuwā pade, nanda-kiśora. Nanda-kiśora . . . Hamare paas jo kuch hai, hai kya. Ye ek sharir hai aur ek mind hai aur ek family hai. 'manas deho geho' ab jo kuch hai ye sab samarpan, bus ho gaya. Hai to nahi kuch sabhi aap ka hai. Lekin hum samajhta hai ye hamara sharir hai, ye hamara mind hai aur ye hamara family hai, ye hamara state hai, bus itna hi. To Jo kuch hai wo sabi aap le lijiye, bus ho gaya. Whatever we have, we have. We have this body, our mind and a family. "Manas deho geho"—now whatever we have we must surrender, that's all. We don't possess anything, everything belongs to You. But we understand that this is my body, this is my mind, this is my family, this is my state—that's all. So whatever we have, you take away everything—finished.

Dr. Patel: You hand over the steer of your "now."

Prabhupāda: Yes. The next line is mārobi rākhobi, yo icchā tohārā. Ab to hum sab de diya, ab jasia iccha aapka. Aap marna hai mar dijiye, rakhna hai rakh lijiye. Now I have given up everything, now it is Your will. You want to kill me, kill me—You want to save me, save me. This is surrender.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, that reminds me of a story that I read that one man, one English lord, had gone on a pigeon shooting. I told once this story. And he had got lot of pigeons in a gunny bag, and he would allow one pigeon to go, and shoot. One pigeon, instead of flying, fell down at his feet. He could not shoot it. Like that. And this reminds me, this story, always reminds me, this complete surrender. He could not shoot that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: So God will not marana, will not kill. He will never maro, cannot maro. He will never kill, cannot kill . . . because you are at His very feet. There is a provision.

Prabhupāda: Nahi God marega kyon, jo kuch surrender karte nahin unka raksha karta hai No, why will God kill—those who don't surrender, he protects them also.

Dr Patel: To surrender ko kaisa nahi karega. So is one surrendered, why will He not protect?

Prabhupāda: Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). To surrender ko kyo nahi karega. yehi to surrender chahiye. Bhagavan to sab ko raksha karta hai. He is supplying everything, without any surrendering. Jase government hai. Government jo prison house me hai usko khane ko nahi deta hai. Usko bhi khane ka, hospital jo bimar ho jaye care leta hai. So why will He not supply to those who have surrendered? This surrender is required—God protects everyone. Just like the government is giving food to the prisoners, it takes care of the prisoners—gives them food, medical facilities, takes care of them. But that care and outside-the-jail care, there is little difference. In the prison house, even one is very highly qualified, and if he applies for some good post, he will not be given. He'll not be given. But outside the prison? "Yes, you are qualified. Come on." The same government, the same man, but so long one is criminal, there is no consideration. (break)