771103 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771103R1-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1977 - 53:44 Minutes

Prabhupāda: So somebody else come near me. Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: If somebody has come from Delhi, in that car could not come? Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone has come from Delhi. The cars came.

Prabhupāda: But . . . no, no. It could not come in time.

Bhakti-caru: They couldn't come in time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The cars only came here by four o'clock.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it seems like it was Kṛṣṇa's desire that we didn't go. I was pretty shocked when I saw that the cars only arrived by four o'clock in the morning. There was no way that we would have been able to go on time.

Prabhupāda: So what is to be done now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is to be done now? Well, we're going to stay here for ten days or so, and you'll get better. When you get stronger, then we can attempt this trip. We have to hope that you'll get stronger now. Did you take all the medicine, Bhakti-caru, from the kavirāja?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. He made all the medicines till eleven o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So we shall wait. We shall wait.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. No, that was the best program, to wait some time. We were feeling a little bit happy to get this good kavirāja, so naturally we were thinking to stay where he could give you more close attention. But he also felt that to wait for some time was best. Did you pass a comfortable night?

Prabhupāda: As usual. Bhavānanda was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Hmm. Now Jayādvaita, you read?

Jayādvaita: I can read, or Akṣayānanda Mahārāja is here with the report about the program last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is Akṣayānanda?

Jayādvaita: Here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Akṣayānanda: They enjoyed . . . we showed them the New Vrindaban film, Hindi. They enjoyed it very much. Also they asked us to speak. They said: "But don't speak anything about the Gītā."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. They said: "You can speak what you like about ISKCON, but we know all about Gītā. Don't speak anything about Gītā. Tell us about the progress of ISKCON." So I read out how many books have been printed and distributed since Your Divine Grace started ISKCON, how many farms you've established, how many centers, how many devotees all over the world and like that. They're very dry. But nonetheless, the film was so nice that they were very much impressed by it. They took prasādam. They enjoyed it very much.

Prabhupāda: "Don't speak of Gītā"?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna, but "Don't speak of Gītā." It's foolishness.

Prabhupāda: Now the danger is māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). So Vṛndāvana is full of Māyāvādīs. Do you accept it? And I am afraid our men may not be influenced. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's clear saying—māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. Hmm? What is to be done? (break) Hmm? They are coming to our Vṛndāvana temple, Bombay temple. What is their purpose? They may occupy it? Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they can't occupy it.

Prabhupāda: So we have to be very careful. Hmm?

Akṣayānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Akṣayānanda? And Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they're not going to get in. From now on we're going to have a sign on all of our temples, "No Māyāvādī Meetings Allowed."

Prabhupāda: It is clearly written, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śu . . . Sixth Chapter. Hmm? The Sarvabhauma . . .

Bhavānanda: One sixty-nine.

jīvera nistāra lāgi' sūtra kaila vyāsa

māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa

(CC Madhya 6.169)

That's Sixth Chapter, Madhya-līlā, verse 169. "Śrīla Vyāsadeva presented the Vedānta philosophy for the deliverance of conditioned souls, but if one hears the commentary of Śaṅkarācārya, everything is spoiled." Shall I read the purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Purport: "Factually, the devotional service of the Lord is described in Vedānta-sūtra, but the Māyāvādī philosophers, the Śaṅkarites, prepared a commentary known as Śārīraka-bhāṣya, in which the transcendental form of the Lord is denied. The Māyāvādī philosophers think that the living entity is identical with the Supreme Soul, Brahman. Their commentaries on Vedānta-sūtra are completely opposed to the principle of devotional service. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore warns us to avoid these commentaries. If one indulges in hearing the Śaṅkarite Śārīraka-bhāṣya, he will certainly be bereft of all real knowledge. The ambitious Māyāvādī philosophers desire to merge into the existence of the Lord, and this may be accepted as sāyujya-mukti. However, this form of mukti means denying one's individual existence. In other words, it is a kind of spiritual suicide. This is absolutely opposed to the philosophy of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga offers immortality to the individual conditioned soul. If one follows the Māyāvādī philosophy, he misses his opportunity to become immortal after giving up the material body. The immortality of the individual person is the highest perfectional stage a living entity can attain."

Prabhupāda: Who were . . . was present all through in the meeting?

Akṣayānanda: Ramkrishna Bajaj was there. Shriman Narayan.

Prabhupāda: No, you were there?

Akṣayānanda: I was there.

Prabhupāda: So what the gosvāmīs said?

Akṣayānanda: Well, last night they didn't speak anything. They just heard our film and lecture. That's all. They didn't speak anything last night. Actually, they are very impressed.

Prabhupāda: Who was impressed?

Akṣayānanda: All the people. They all . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's asking about the Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs—Puruṣottama Gosvāmī, Viśvambhara Gosvāmī . . .

Akṣayānanda: Oh, I see. No, they were not there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but they were there in the afternoon. You didn't see them, but they were there.

Akṣayānanda: Oh, I see. We didn't stay all through in the afternoon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's point is that all of the gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana were attending.

Akṣayānanda: What did they say to Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they're attending, Bon Mahārāja, so that means the whole of Vṛndāvana has become Māyāvādī, because they're all attending this meeting. Our men should not attend this meeting any more, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, just see the . . . how they have functioned. It is our place. We should guard. So? And all the men were accommodated in their room?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They could all fit in the meeting room?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And who was presiding?

Akṣayānanda: The Aurobindo.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That guy's a pakka Māyāvādī. That Aurobindo man?

Prabhupāda: Aurobind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He had a big argument with Brahmānanda. Not a big argument . . .

Jayādvaita: They were challenging.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . but he was challenging Brahmānanda that "Kṛṣṇa means the divine consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is not a person. He is the . . . it is divine consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Māyāvāda.

Akṣayānanda: I have a plan, Prabhupāda. Myself and Bhakti-prema Swami can go there and sit, and if we hear any discrepancies, if we are given a chance afterwards, which we can arrange to speak something, then we can rectify—in a gentlemanly way, of course. We can rectify. If we sit there, at least we know that they'll be careful what they say. And he can catch any finer points that I would miss, 'cause it's all in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: They are speaking in Hindi.

Akṣayānanda: Everything's in Hindi, the whole thing. No English whatsoever.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then there's no chance of our men becoming . . .

Akṣayānanda: Our men can't understand anything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good advantage.

Akṣayānanda: But for the purpose of maintaining our proper position, we can sit there and hear what they're saying, and when an opportunity is there, we can rectify.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Bhakti-prema may agree with them.

Akṣayānanda: No, no, he's . . . no. No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He used to be a Māyāvādī.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. But he understands fully this philosophy and accepts it.

Prabhupāda: So this is the position. The whole Vṛndāvana is full of Māyāvādīs. We have to be very, very cautious and careful. I was there that Brahmānanda protested against that Aurobindo. And then "Don't speak of Gītā."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's what they told him.

Jayādvaita: They shouldn't speak of Gītā. They should speak of whatever other thing they want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then why call it Gītā-pratiṣṭhāna?

Jayādvaita: That's Prabhupāda's promise. He's establishing Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayādvaita: The actual establishment of Bhagavad-gītā is being done by Your Divine Grace. They should admit that, "We have our philosophy, but as far as Bhagavad-gītā goes, Śrīla Prabhupāda is establishing it all over the world. We have something else, our own idea." They can say that.

Prabhupāda: Now find out the way how to stop this class of men speaking in our halls.

Akṣayānanda: That's not difficult. We simply . . . we conduct our own meetings, that's all, Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, one thing is that in Bombay . . . I mean, we really don't have a very attractive hall here, but in Bombay we have the most attractive air-conditioned hall of any place that has a religious temple. All of these people will want to speak in our hall. Not only these people will want to speak in our hall, but all of the nonsense theater people will want to perform there.

Prabhupāda: So we must charge.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if we charge, they're going to speak nonsense. If we don't mind speaking nonsense, then it's all right. Otherwise, just like Subbulakshmi, she may want to give some concert in our hall as a benefit. But she's going to sing some . . . simply sing nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhavānanda? Where is Bhavānanda?

Jayādvaita: Bhavānanda Maharaja? Prabhupāda's asking for you.

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, if they pay, we shall allow?

Bhavānanda: I don't think so, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Just like yesterday, I was noticing in their afternoon meeting, they had microphone, and you could hear the speakers outside. I was thinking that this Māyāvādī . . . someone is speaking Māyāvādī philosophy, it's polluting the boys. Even you don't understand Hindi, the sound vibration itself is polluting. You once told me, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that to even hear Sanskrit Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the mouth of a Māyāvādī, it will poison you. Even you don't understand, just the sound vibration coming from that source is polluting. So what is the necessity for us to rent out our facility to them?

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, the point is that we have not built these temples for profit-making basis. We have built these temples to demonstrate to the world an ideal, perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we are going to allow these people to come here, that means we're compromising. Then we should have gone into business . . .

Prabhupāda: Just like to take advertisement in the magazine. Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's the same thing. We're trying to make something ideal. We don't care if anybody does join or doesn't join, but our business is to show the perfect ideal.

Prabhupāda: Jayādvaita?

Jayādvaita: I agree. This . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like our Back to Godhead magazine. For a while it was becoming very compromised. Actually it was becoming a little compromised. And just because we wanted . . . the editors were thinking that they should make it more popular, more acceptable. But our conclusion of all the GBC men was, "Popular or not, we are trying to present the ideal for the topmost men. There must be some ideal institution in the world." So we should keep it pure. And those who want the pure product, they will come and take. And others, at least they will know this is pure.

Jayādvaita: Everybody else is already a hodgepodge, so they'll allow anyone to speak, because they don't have any scruples. But if we are very strict, if we don't allow anyone who's not strictly following . . .

Prabhupāda: Where is Brahmānanda?

Jayādvaita: Brahmānanda? Brahmānanda is resting.

Prabhupāda: So, I am on the deathbed. I may go away at any moment. Then . . . now it is up to you to give protection to the sanctity of our institution. Who else is there among the GBC?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara, Jagadīśa.

Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not here right now, but they are here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: He has gone to Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came back last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So think over. I am unable to do now. I can simply give you warning. It is very dangerous. Hmm?

Jayādvaita: We have so many experiences that someone associates with these people and he loses his status.

Prabhupāda: They can warn us that "Don't speak of Gītā," and why shall I allow them to speak? Eh?

Bhavānanda: That is such an insult, especially it's our facility. As soon as you rent out to people, then you are compromised, that they can tell you not to speak of Gītā at their Gītā conference in your hall. And you have to listen because they're giving you money.

Akṣayānanda: Because they're paying.

Bhavānanda: It's outrageous.

Prabhupāda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I mean I'm more concerned about Bombay, because there in Bombay I feel that . . . I don't think that there's a proper understanding on the part of some of the leaders there about the danger of this. I think that the leaders there are not very clear on this point. I'm a little worried about Bombay for that reason. I think that they're, you know, they're going to compromise. There's a danger for compromisation there.

Jayādvaita: To be popular.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. To be popular and to be profitable, they're approaching it on a very businesslike basis. And also the other point is that they're afraid that . . . in Bombay they've made this hall, such a beautiful hall, so they don't want it to lie vacant or empty, and they just can't think of what can be done inside that hall every single day of the year. It's a fact, that hall should be used every day of the year.

Bhavānanda: By us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By us. But since they feel that there's not going to be any constant use from our side, they're thinking that it doesn't make sense to have built and spent so much money on such a good hall and not utilize it daily, which from the business point of view is a fact. But that means that you're going to have to invite all kinds of semi . . . it's not even Kṛṣṇa conscious. I wanted to say semi–Kṛṣṇa conscious, but they're going to have to invite different theater people, entertaining people.

Bhavānanda: So the Kṛṣṇa conscious solution is to utilize the hall every night for our own purposes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is unlimited. There's so many dramas, so many lectures, so many symposiums.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose you constructed house and rent out. Then they can do as they like. So similarly, if that hall is made, constructed for making some money, then the money will not come if we don't rent out to the cinema actors, actresses. It is just like . . . what is called? Tenant house. Hmm? What is called? When one pays, marriage ceremony . . .

Bhavānanda: Rent?

Akṣayānanda: Darśana?

Bhavānanda: When one pays rent?

Jayādvaita: For marriage ceremony.

Prabhupāda: For making some money you have made.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that why we made that hall, for making money?

Prabhupāda: Otherwise what you will do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, originally you had intended that that hall would be used for Svarūpa Dāmodara's scientists and for our theater group and things like that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but are you going to have every day?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I know that they won't. They cannot do that. I mean practically they won't.

Bhavānanda: It's possible, but . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it would have to take a tremendous endeavor on the part of our Movement, and our Movement is not . . . we're not geared to do that. It just, you know, we're not geared to do that.

Prabhupāda: It is like tenant house. So whoever pays to your satisfaction, you give him for one day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that all right with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I don't think it is wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Well, then that makes it very easy.

Prabhupāda: Because it will be a source of income.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it will be a big source of income. They'll pay a lot of money to use that hall. Not only that, once you let them use the hall, they'll book all the rooms in the hotel at the same time.

Prabhupāda: If you are going to do some business, earn some money, you'll have to allow.

Bhavānanda: But how that will affect the atmosphere and Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the temple? It's not that the theater . . .

Prabhupāda: Well, atmosphere . . . suppose there is temple, and there is the park and other houses, and they are already polluting the atmosphere. You cannot stop it. Is it not?

Jayādvaita: All over our Movement we have temples, and then next door there's some nonsense place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot check the atmosphere all round. That is not possible. (pause) So when you described the number of books, what did they say? Hmm?

Akṣayānanda: They said it was very nice. They said they were very impressed with that, and that you are doing the greatest work. They . . . superficially they say all these things. They must.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They haven't even published one book.

Akṣayānanda: They must say these things.

Bhavānanda: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, another view is that we've constructed such attractive facilities here, and the purpose is to attract people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if we let out this auditorium in Bombay and here in Vṛndāvana, so those people will come. They may be Māyāvādī . . . actually, everyone is Māyāvādī today. So it's a good opportunity for preaching if we're strong.

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Preaching means to convert Māyāvādīs to Vaiṣṇava. Otherwise where is the need of preaching?

Bhavānanda: Preaching also means risk.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No risk. We take money from them. So we get some money; that is our gain. So anything, do very carefully.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you said we should have a sign, "No Māyāvādī Meetings Allowed."

Prabhupāda: No. If this is allowed free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Well, this wasn't free. They're paying for being here. They're paying to be here.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're paying to hold their program.

Prabhupāda: No gratis lecture allowed. If they pay for, they will talk all nonsense, (laughter) and we don't care for it. These are the considerations. That's all right. Turn me this side. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Prabhupāda, you should take some rest now, I think. You've been talking a long time. (aside) Scratch him (long pause) (end)