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760726 - Conversation B - London

From Vanisource

(Redirected from Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London)
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760726R2-LONDON - July 26, 1976 - 89:49 Minutes



Prabhupāda: Very good. Generally you are preaching here, preaching nice?

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: You know French?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, I am from France originally.

Prabhupāda: So, what is your new publication?

Bhagavān: So I have a big surprise.

Jayatīrtha: Whew! Wow! It's fabulous! Wow!

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Hari-śauri: This will make Rāmeśvara very envious.

Bhagavān: This is special. This is on all volumes.

Jayatīrtha: It's fabulous.

Prabhupāda: Oh, how many chapters?

Bhagavān: Up to chapter nine.

Prabhupāda: Oh, First Canto.

Bhagavān: Half of First Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes, twenty. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī . . .

kṛṣṇe sva-dhāmopagate
dharma-jñānādhibhiḥ saha
kalau naṣṭa-dṛśām eṣa
purāṇārko 'dhunoditaḥ
(SB 1.3.43)

How many copies you have printed?

Bhagavān: Twenty-five thousand.

Prabhupāda: Already on sales? No.

Bhagavān: No, these are the first few.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Ācchā.

Bhagavān: There's a preface by a very famous professor. He has spoken very, very highly in this.

Prabhupāda: Read. What does it say?

Pṛthu-putra: (translating) "The classical induries based on sacred scriptures from which the eighteen great Purāṇas has a central place. These vast poems, their character—encyclopedic character—give theologic teaching . . ."

Bhagavān: He's talking about the Bhāgavatam.

Pṛthu-putra: Ah, yes. He's giving all the knowledge of the Veda, ". . . and in the substance of the Purāṇa there is the face of the Indian populations. While reciting them in the temples and the preacher are giving commentaries in the assembly of devotees, which is called sankīrtana. This teaching lead to the chant and dancing on the glories of the Lord Bhagavān. Amongst all these Purāṇas, the most famous is the Bhāgavata-Purāṇa, called Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, because this literary form is achieved the most beautiful, and also because it's the poem which is expressing the best the doctrine of the faith that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, Puruṣottama, the principle of everything, the absolute unique without second, advaitam-brahman. Like in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord reveals His majesty in plain. Much more than an avatāra of Viṣṇu, He appears in our eyes like the unique God. Towards Him all devotion is due. The French people are honored to have, from the beginning of the nineteenth century, to have the first edition of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa, but from long time already this work of the great Burnouf"—that's the man who translated already Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in nineteenth century in French language—"is the reason why we have to thank very much the association, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, to give us that very big text, one of the master book of the humanity. This book is very benefic, and with the tradition of the Sanskrit text there is a commentary, the magisterial commentary, which is given verse after verse by the master, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder of the association. As he did it with the Bhagavad-gītā, which was published in French in 1975 with the preface of a Professor Olivier Lacombe, Swami Prabhupāda explains word by word each mantra—stanza or sacred text—before to give a signification. Then the reader can judge every pieces, what is the meaning of the teaching of the master by confrontation with the text itself . . ."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Pṛthu-putra: "And there is also an index and some notes which are giving the work much more easy for the reader, even the profound. This teaching took its root in the teaching of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that prophet of Kṛṣṇa's. His preaching in Bengal in Orissa in sixteenth century is again appear deeper for the devotion to Bhagavān. Śrīla Prabhupāda is descending in the disciplic succession, direct vaṁśa from Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His first disciples, the famous Gosvāmīs. It is a considerable advantage for the French public to have these volumes where there is a vitality manifested from one of these past panthā, which are the most followed by the fidèle of the Hinduism. We hope that there is a large distribution of this traduction and commentary of the Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. Anyone who is interested in the life of India can find the authentic teaching, spiritual teaching authorized, and can also have access to one of the most beautiful religious poem from the Hindu tradition." This is it. It's wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very good.

Jayatīrtha: What was his name?

Pṛthu-putra: Jean Vardin

Bhagavān: You met him several years ago, two years ago, when you were in France.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I met one . . .

Bhagavān: He took all your books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he likes our . . .

Bhagavān:. Oh, yes. We are very respected in the country.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. You must keep our position. Yes.

Bhagavān: Big Bhagavad-gītā, we have distributed fifty thousand.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This is Bhagavad-gītā.

Bhagavān: This is Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam.

Bhagavān: And big Bhagavad-gītā, the big one, last year you saw.

Prabhupāda: I can see.

Bhagavān: We distributed fifty thousand.

Prabhupāda: Already distributed?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhagavān: And we printed that little Bhagavad-gītā, remember? That we've distributed twenty-five thousand. So seventy-five thousand Bhagavad-gītā one year.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Bhagavān: And this is twenty-five thousand. Kṛṣṇa Book, first half, will be ready on August 8th, twenty-five thousand also.

Prabhupāda: First half.

Bhagavān: Would you like to see the design for the cover?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: This is . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: Wow.

Bhagavān: This will be Kṛṣṇa Book, 650 pages.

Jayatīrtha: This will also be coming out?

Bhagavān: Yeah. This is just the press proof. It needs improvement.

Prabhupāda: Fifty thousand?

Bhagavān: (laughs) Twenty-five thousand. The translators have been working day and night for the last two weeks to get everything ready. They are now in Italy. We are printing this book in Italy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Cheaper?

Bhagavān: It's very cheap. Very cheap. Including composition, the book cost $1.75.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very cheap.

Bhagavān: Sixty-four color pictures.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice. Thank you.

Bhagavān: And Upadeśāmṛta, that is coming out in one week, twenty-five thousand copies.

Prabhupāda: Which book selling now?

Jayatīrtha: Which book are you selling now?

Bhagavān: Which book are we selling right now? Gītā, and we'll have the quantity of this in about three weeks, and then we'll begin selling Bhāgavatam. And Īśopaniṣad, Easy Journey, Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: French language is understood practically all over Europe . . .

Pṛthu-putra: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . especially France, Switzerland.

Bhagavān: Switzerland, Montreal, Belgium . . .

Pṛthu-putra: Luxembourg and Belgium also, they are French-speaking.

Bhagavān: And Africa. Much countries in Africa are French-speaking.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You can sell in Mauritius.

Bhagavān: Yes. I send books to Mauritius.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There everyone speaks French.

Bhagavān: Did you see the color printing inside? It's also very nice. They have done the same . . . this was last year in Paris, when you received Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: It's a nice picture. Everyone who sees it says how friendly Prabhupāda is.

Jayatīrtha: We have the picture framed in the hallway also.

Hari-śauri: This one is downstairs. George Harrison immediately pointed to it and said: "Oh, that's a wonderful picture."

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is Vaiṣṇava picture. Vaiṣṇava is always humble. (looking at picture) Jagannātha Purī.

Bhagavān: They are distributing these books for no less than ten dollars each.

Jayatīrtha: Ten dollars each? Fifty francs.

Bhagavān: Fifty francs, ten dollars. This is Gaura-Nitāi at New Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Baltimore?

Bhagavān: At the farm.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayatīrtha: They are similar to the ones in Baltimore. I saw that picture. One boy from Baltimore just came here, Śrutadeva.

Bhagavān: We have done this like in the English, with the explanation on this side.

Jayatīrtha: C'est magnifique. (laughter)

Bhagavān: The color has come out nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They like pictures?

Bhagavān: Oh, yes.

Jayatīrtha: The French are much different than the Germans.

Bhagavān: This on the back. This explains the end pages here, so people can see the whole picture, and the explanation is given here.

Hari-śauri: Will that be in every canto? Every book it'll be in.

Bhagavān: Yeah.

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) . . . this Introduction? Another?

Prabhupāda: Read what he . . .

Bhagavān: This is another appreciation here. This is from a doctor in the University of Neuchatel. It's in Switzerland, eh?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, Switzerland.

Bhagavān: He's a Swiss doctor.

Pṛthu-putra: (translating) "The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most known under the name of Bhāgavata-Purāṇa. The Sanskrit word Purāṇa means 'ancient, old work.' It is a commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra by Vyāsadeva, its author, from which we also learn about the Mahābhārata. From a general way, but particularly the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Purāṇa is a true encyclopedia containing all the aspects of the life of spirit. We have to see that this great work is containing all the predictions, this, of realizing in every detail. Then it is very important to point out that the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam under its poetic form is a very actual by the subject which it's treating about. The truth is one and universal, and the tradition of this work is always valuable. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an essential development of the Bhagavad-gītā. It's talking about the questions metaphysical, philosophical, religious, psychologic, political and social. The wonderful tradition of Swami Prabhupāda is inspired from the same principles that the one who guided him in his translation of the Bhagavad-gītā. Every Sanskrit verse is written in Latin characters and, and there is a traduction (translation) then a literary version. A commentary, which is referring always from the Veda, Upaniṣad, and other texts, is allowing the reader to make spiritual progress. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is a precious work and will be revealed for a lot of people from the Western. And there is a very urgent needs to spread this message throughout the world."

Jayatīrtha: Ah!

Pṛthu-putra: It's a very good decision.

Bhagavān: Doctor of Letters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: These European scholars are very appreciative of your books.

Bhagavān: Every book comes with these bookmarks.

Prabhupāda: Oh, bookmark. So, it is another step forward. (laughs)

Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126).

Bhagavān: The saṅkīrtana devotees, they are distributing always in dhotī.

Prabhupāda: Like him.

Bhagavān: They go to . . . they do not wear the karmī clothes.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bhagavān: And they are having nice success also. They go into the offices, into the . . . they are walking everywhere. Even the hospitals they are going.

Prabhupāda: There is no obstruction.

Bhagavān: No. (laughs) They are very determined.

Jayatīrtha: In France the atmosphere is very nice.

Prabhupāda: So why your cloth is so dirty?

Pṛthu-putra: I just traveled with it.

Prabhupāda: For a sannyāsī it is very nice. (laughs) So people may not dislike it, but for a sannyāsī this is very nice.

Bhagavān: He's doing very nicely, Pṛthu-putra. He's having many preaching engagements.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That is wanted. Śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ purāṇam amalaṁ (SB 12.13.18). So when the whole lot will be delivered?

Bhagavān: End of August.

Prabhupāda: End of August? Oh.

Bhagavān: Twenty-five thousand. And same, Kṛṣṇa Book also, twenty-five thousand.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this cover is wonderful.

Jayatīrtha: Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: In France especially they will appreciate it, so ornate.

Prabhupāda: Same size?

Bhagavān: Same size, same thickness, all the same as the Gītā. It's a whole library of books.

Hari-śauri: You doing a color scheme on the different color for each canto?

Bhagavān: Maybe not; maybe keep the same.

Prabhupāda: There will be three parts or two?

Bhagavān: Two parts.

Prabhupāda: So give Bhagavān Prabhu nice prasādam. Our the devotees only eat prasādam.

Bhagavān: My prasāda was sitting here. (Prabhupāda coughing heavily) I'm sorry to hear that you are so sick. You are sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Should have, cough, stopped. The coughing is continuing and practically no appetite, and palpitation of heart. Going up the step is . . . so how under this condition I can travel? It is not . . .

Bhagavān: Very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you came back from India?

Pṛthu-putra: Three month ago.

Prabhupāda: From Vṛndāvana?

Pṛthu-putra: From Bombay. I was last in Bombay.

Bhagavān: You have been like this for some time?

Prabhupāda: It has begun from New York, eh?

Hari-śauri: Yeah, you had kidney trouble in New York, and then immediately after that, coughing and . . . when we came on the plane it grew worse.

Prabhupāda: One doctor came, he gave me three bags of tablets.

Hari-śauri: He wanted to give you five. He gave us five different prescriptions.

Prabhupāda: I did not take anything, tablet. (chuckles) Rather, what one I was taking, I have stopped that also.

Jayatīrtha: You do not put very much faith in these doctors.

Prabhupāda: What this medicine will do?

Hari-śauri: Most of the medicine he gave was to dull your senses so much that you wouldn't feel any pain—either make you sleep for six hours at a time or . . . like this.

Prabhupāda: So in the village how many devotees are there?

Bhagavān: At the farm? Almost two hundred.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Bhagavān: They are waiting for you. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must be waiting. So farming is going? Farming?

Bhagavān: Oh, yes. We've just harvested barley and oats, big harvest, and the farm is supplying beans, cauliflower right now.

Pṛthu-putra: Tomatoes are good, too.

Bhagavān: Tomatoes. They have planted three thousand tomato plants, and all the farmers, they are asking how we have done.

Prabhupāda: And milk?

Bhagavān: We have not bought many cows yet. We will.

Prabhupāda: No, no milk at all? No cows?

Bhagavān: Oh, yes, we have five cows, six cows.

Prabhupāda: So getting milk.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They have got large quantity of milk in Philadelphia.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes, very good cows there. They bought the best cows, first-class cows.

Hari-śauri: Pennsylvania.

Prabhupāda: They have got tank, one-fourth of this room.

Bhagavān: In New Vrindavan?

Jayatīrtha: No, in Philadelphia, New Barṣaṇa. First-class farm.

Prabhupāda: They have very well managed. And everyone is eating very nicely. (laughter) Similarly in New Vrindavan. What is the . . . I want this, that you have sufficient grain, sufficient milk, then where is your economic question? And from milk, by intelligence you can get so many preparation—lucī, purī, halavā, rasagullā, sandeśa, rabrī. Wonderful.

Bhagavān: There is one boy, one of our sankīrtana devotees, who previously was a farmer. His father has given him a farm in the north of France. So recently he has given us his whole crop of hay for the cows. The value of that was thirty thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā!

Bhagavān: It's enough hay to supply twenty-five or thirty cows for two years, and on top of that he's able to get a loan from the bank of forty-five thousand dollars for twenty years at four percent.

Prabhupāda: To be repaid.

Bhagavān: Yes. But this he can use to purchase cows and build barn.

Prabhupāda: Only four percent. How their bank is giving so cheap?

Bhagavān: Because he's a farmer. They're helping . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, farmers . . .

Jayatīrtha: Special concession for farmers to help farm.

Prabhupāda: That means government encouraging farming.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Because no one wants to farm anymore these days. I heard that, especially in France.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes, especially in France, all the land is . . .

Bhagavān: We have also paid our loan to Los Angeles. One month ago I paid seventeen thousand dollars. So everything is . . .

Prabhupāda: So you, you can take back loan.

Bhagavān: I was holding it for him, but then he said he didn't need it right away, so I sent it to Los Angeles.

Jayatīrtha: We hadn't determined what building.

Prabhupāda: So you have . . . that building you should purchase.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, now I'll get the money.

Prabhupāda: You have got twenty thousand, and he has already paid seventeen thousand, so I think you can collect fifty thousand immediately. If you want, I can give you also four, five thousand, not less.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, that money in the Lloyd's Bank account? Yes, we will give you better interest than the bank. Good.

Prabhupāda: No, now we are book selling nicely, I think our . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa has arranged everything cautiously and not extravagantly. You go on, and everything will be all right. There will be no scarcity. Yāvad-artha-prayojanam. Our parents taught us, mother, if there was a grain of rice on the ground and it is touched with feet, "Oh, you take it." We were taught like that.

Jayatīrtha: Nothing should be wasted.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has sent you His grain. You cannot waste it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Live that way. And Kṛṣṇa is providing so much facilities for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, and why should we deviate and spoil this life, take the risk of again going into the cycle of birth and death? Commonsense affair. We have got the good . . . greatest opportunity to solve this problem of repetition of birth. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). And only for little sense gratification we are going to sacrifice so great opportunity of life? This much education is wanted. Na sadhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. Eh? Find out the verse, Fifth Canto. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Very bad civilization. Mad civilization, pramattaḥ. Simply for little sense gratification they are prepared to take so much risk. Next life you may become cat, dog or a small grass or a tree by laws of nature. So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. It is Fifth Canto?

Bhagavān: Ṛṣabhadeva.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Instruction to His sons.

Hari-śauri: What was that? Yasya?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ.

Hari-śauri: Nonam.

Prabhupāda: N-u-n-a-m. (devotees search for verse)

Jayatīrtha: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). That the right one?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha:

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually, the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."

Prabhupāda: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it immediately, accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain. By eating meat and intoxication they have lost their all human brain tissues. Such a condition. Still, some professors receiving and giving some applause. That is. Otherwise, who is understanding? The brain is so dull in the modern world.

Jayatīrtha: It's called a vicious cycle. Because the brain is so dull, therefore they can't understand how to stop performing these activities; and because they don't stop performing these activities, therefore the brain remains dull. In this way they are caught up.

Prabhupāda: No, pramattaḥ, that we can see. Pramattaḥ, mad. And everyone, especially in the Western country, so many madmen. The hippies, their whole sect, mad. Pramattaḥ. Then so-called businessman, so-called scientist, so-called philosopher—everyone is mad. And kurute vikarma, all sinful activities, especially the slaughterhouse. Horrible. Everyone is taking share of these sinful activities. They're fighting amongst themselves—this party, that party, Communist party, Fascist party, then barking in the United Nation and so on, so on. All mad. At least we must know it. Or we are talking nonsense, they are all right. What is your conviction?

Bhagavān: We are seeing that more and more we are having to preach to younger and younger people.

Prabhupāda: Those who are innocent.

Bhagavān: Yes. In the colleges even it is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: In the colleges now. Before, it was not so difficult. Now they are becoming . . .

Prabhupāda: Spoiled, all spoiled. All spoiled.

Bhagavān: Now many devotees are younger, sixteen, seventeen years old, not so spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharman bhagavatān iha (SB 7.6.1): "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ purusaḥ. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness that, "Stop further implication." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What is the next verse?

Jayatīrtha: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Prabhupāda: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāta.

Jayatīrtha and Prabhupāda: Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam . . .

Jayatīrtha: Yāvat kriyās tāvad idam mano vai karmātmakam yena śarīra-bandhaḥ (SB 5.5.5).

Prabhupāda: So long one will remain a karmī, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will be depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.

Jayatīrtha: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance."

Prabhupāda: Everything, whatever he's doing—the so-called nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat, simply defeat. What is your advancement? You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. What is your progress? So yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Only this hodgepodge. They are wasting so much time going to the Mars, spending so much money. But there is no inquiry, ātma-tattvam: "What I am? What is my goal of life?"

Bhagavān: They are zero.

Prabhupāda: Such zero. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Ātma-tattva, there is no . . .

Bhagavān: They are thinking that they have become advanced because they have become atheists. They have let religion go. They say that religion was a . . .

Prabhupāda: But what you have gained out of it, rascal? Now there is no water. Bring water and become atheist. Why do you see, "When there will be water?" Bring water by scientific method.

Jayatīrtha: They should pass a resolution.

Prabhupāda: Why you are looking on the sky, "Whether there is any cloud."

Hari-śauri: Set up a drought committee.

Prabhupāda: They have done?

Bhagavān: In France there was a big drought, terrible drought. Many animals died. So the president of the country made a speech, and then all he could say in his speech was that people should try to use less water. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Oh. There was another caricature, India. So there was some drought, the same. So there was some, what is called, representation, "And there is no water. We are suffering. This is the difficulty." "Yes, we are taking step, but next week you'll have television." Advancement—television. Because there was no television in India, so this is the advancement: next week they have television. As if television will solve the problem. All mūḍhas, rascals, are very horrible condition. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no other.

Jayatīrtha: Tāmala Kṛṣṇa once published an article in the Back to Godhead. The title was "You Cannot Eat Nuts and Bolts."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: It was very nice.

Prabhupāda: That is my word. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: We always take everything from you, and then we take the credit.

Prabhupāda: Nuts and bolts, tire tube, gas, this, that. Where is food? (laughter) "So just kill the animals. That's all. You'll get food." And how long you'll go on? The animals will . . . and no more animals? Die? Then what they'll do? Animal, after all, they live on grains and grass, but one set or two set or three set you can kill and eat. The next . . .? Then you have to eat dry grass. It is a wrong civilization. Duṣkṛtina. There is no water; they are flying to the Mars planet. What is the Mars planet news? Any news?

Jayatīrtha: What is the latest news from the Mars planet, do you know?

Bhagavān: Mars planet. No. They are taking samples of the soil.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Same story.

Bhagavān: In the moon, when they finished, after they concluded there was no life, they dropped a bomb.

Jayatīrtha: Dropped a bomb?

Bhagavān: Yes, they made an explosion, just to see what would happen.

Jayatīrtha: Ācchā.

Prabhupāda: You can drop many bombs in the Sahara desert. Who cares? Who cares for that? (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Prabhupāda said they were actually in Arizona. This Mars capsule has landed in Arizona.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why bomb? "Grapes are sour."

Bhagavān: To measure something.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they measure, it us useless. What they'll get by dropping a bomb?

Jayatīrtha: Just another foolishness.

Prabhupāda: But nobody is questioning that, "Why you are wasting money in this way? You have already failure, the moon planet."

Bhagavān: They are hoping against hope. That is all they have. (break)

Prabhupāda: Let us not be discouraged. Let us go on with our study, activities, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Bhagavān: Seeing their foolishness makes one more convinced, it does not discourage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This failure was assured ten years ago by me.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, you predicted it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but still, I am saying: "This will be all failure." And still, they are hopeful. My Guru Mahārāja is very pleased. As soon as a book comes out, he is pleased.

Jayatīrtha: Especially one so beautiful.

Prabhupāda: He was lamenting that, "These men, they did not make . . . publish any number of books. They are simply after this stone and bricks." He condemned. He was very, very sorry. So I thought that I must take a risk. And he's pleased.

Bhagavān: So now you have books and temples. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes, temple is automatically.

Jayatīrtha: Without fighting, you've got so many temples.

Prabhupāda: No, I never stressed on temple. I was engaged in publishing the Back to Godhead. Whatever I could do, I did it, because I took it very seriously that he is very sorry that these things were not done. He said that, "There will be fire in this Gauḍīya Math." Āgun jvālbe, he said. Amari taci loka kichui boi kakrayebo: "If I can, I shall sell these marbles of this temple and convert them into books." That was his ambition. He started a very nice press, and this Tīrtha Mahārāja sold it.

Jayatīrtha: Sold it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: The press.

Prabhupāda: He's not representing Guru . . . "Better let's have money for fight in the court."

Jayatīrtha: Sometimes I'm sorry that my name also has this word in it. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: You are Jaya-tīrtha. You are victorious. Now whatever is being done, it is by his blessing. Let us work sincerely. Things will be all . . . otherwise it is humanly impossible. It is by his grace.

Jayatīrtha: George was also commenting on that, how one man could have written so many books.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: He could not even read them all, what to speak of writing them all.

Prabhupāda:

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ
paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim
yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande
śrī-gurum dīna-tāranam
(CC Madhya 17.80)

So mūkaṁ karoti vācālam: "A dumb is a great orator." Mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ. Paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim: "The lame man, lame man is jumping over the mountain." Mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim. Yat-kṛpa: "By the mercy of guru it is possible." So let us cooperate and do this business. Higher authority will be pleased, and that is our success. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If the higher authorities are pleased, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. That is our success. What about that French professor who has written an elaborate review?

Hari-śauri: There was a four or five page re . . . the one that mentions about Aurobindo and Radhakrishnan?

Bhagavān: I sent you this summer.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Those two . . .

Hari-śauri: Yes, Prabhupāda's just asking about him.

Bhagavān: Oh, yes, he's waiting to see you.

Prabhupāda: Invite him to come to India.

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: He likes.

Bhagavān: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: He has studied very nicely. Otherwise, how he could catch Aurobindo, a doctor of . . .? In a scholarly way he has attacked him.

Bhagavān: Do you have that in English? I gave you in English.

Hari-śauri: Yes, we've got that one. It's in the files.

Jayatīrtha: He's the most popular . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He has done very good. Actually, what is this? My Guru Maharaja, "He's a bokā-loka." My Guru Maharaja used to say all these men, "All rascals." I was at that time . . . (indistinct) . . . why he says: "Everyone rascals"? He told me, "Rabindranath Tagore and . . . bokā-loka."

Hari-śauri: What's the exact word . . . meaning of that word?

Prabhupāda: Bokā-loka means just like a foolish boy. Bokā-loka.

Bhagavān: Childish.

Prabhupāda: Childish, with no sense. Actually that is the fact. All these rascals, they have no sense. Simply they bluff, because they have no real knowledge. Mayayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. That's a fact. If one, anyone, does not know Kṛṣṇa, then he's a bokā-loka. Immediately take it for granted, bokā-loka. They think that we are very sectarian, but that is the fact.

Bhagavān: Our philosophy is that everyone else is wrong.

Prabhupāda: May be true to some extent, but they do not know the ultimate truth. That they do not know. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). He understands, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā. That requires many, many births, to come to that conclusion. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). These things are there. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7): "There is no more superior than Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). He explains to everyone, sarva-dharman parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That is the . . . there is the ultimate person. You call Him Kṛṣṇa or something, but you must know Him. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ, there must be. Father's father's father's father's father's . . . so who is the original father? There must be. Where is the wrong in this statement? So you find out the supreme father but He has no father: He is the Absolute. Sarva-kāraṇa . . . anādir ādiḥ: "He has no beginning, but He is the beginning." Anādir ādir govindaḥ sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (BS 5.1).

(pause)

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavān may carry one letter that, "I am very sorry. On account of my health failure, I could not go to see you, that professor and all devotees, and I am very, very sorry for this, but I humbly invite you to come to India, and we shall be very glad to sit together," like that.

Jayatīrtha: I'm sure they'll all understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: You're planning to leave Wednesday?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Maybe you'll be better tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Tomorrow?

Bhagavān: Maybe you will be better.

Prabhupāda: No, that is happening. Sometimes I feel all right.

Hari-śauri: But then as soon as Prabhupāda does any activity, he immediately becomes exhausted—just to go downstairs . . .

Prabhupāda: Yesterday evening I was thinking, "Now I am feeling all right. Tomorrow I shall go for morning walk," like that. (laughs) That is due to my practice. So the palace is prepared now?

Bhagavān: First class. I think your quarters are the best. (Prabhupāda laughs) Very comfortable. Your bathroom is all redone. You have a nice separate bedroom, separate bathroom, and a very nice . . . almost this big. It is very sunny.

Prabhupāda: Sunny.

Bhagavān: Very sunny. All day long sun.

Prabhupāda: It is alluring. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Yes, Bhagavān is trying to allure you, I think.

Bhagavān: We are having Deity installation also. The Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Deity is there. They're very beautiful. Extremely.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, I saw Them. Very nice.

Bhagavān: Nice. And we have a new vyāsāsana. I had it made in Italy with all marble, temple. (laughs) Anyway . . .

Jayatīrtha: You can send him pictures in India. I was going to ask you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If I wanted to install these Gaura-Nitai Deities also, like the ones in Baltimore and at his farm, here also, along with the Radha-Kṛṣṇa Deities, without two altars . . .

Bhagavān: Here?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Whether or not that's all right.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: Thank you. The devotees very much like to worship Gaura-Nitai along with Radha-Kṛṣṇa.

(pause)

Bhagavān: You are wanting sun?

Prabhupāda: Yes, sunshine.

Hari-śauri: No programs.

Jayatīrtha: No stairs.

Hari-śauri: No stairs.

Prabhupāda: No, stairs, I may not come down.

Jayatīrtha: That's the problem. Once he's up, he can't come down.

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayatīrtha: That means he can't go outside.

Prabhupāda: I . . . come down is not so very difficult.

Bhagavān: We have already a palanquin to carry you up.

Pṛthu-putra: We have the elevator also, no?

Bhagavān: Yes, we have elevator there also.

Hari-śauri: Is it working?

Bhagavān: Well, it's being fixed right now, but if I phone up . . . but we have a palanquin to carry you up to the stairs, up to the top. Thing is, it's actually warm there, very warm during the day, and your room is extremely warm because the sun crosses it all day long, and there won't be anybody to bother you. All the devotees are out of the castle. They're all in the little houses all around. And it's so big that you won't feel cramped.

Prabhupāda: So I shall feel hungry also?

Bhagavān: Hungry? No, you ate good there last year. You ate very well there last year.

Prabhupāda: No, I like it. It is very nice place.

Pṛthu-putra: The air is good, too.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pṛthu-putra: The air, the atmosphere, is good.

Bhagavān: I don't know. I was thinking the trip . . . we have that big Mercedes limousine. You rode in it last year. It was very comfortable, and the ride, I don't think you found it so difficult, did you? Last year?

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayatīrtha: This year, by the time he got to Bury Place, he was completely exhausted, Bhagavān. Half an hour's drive.

Bhagavān: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: That due to the staircase.

Jayatīrtha: But by the time you sat on the vyāsāsana there you were already looking very tired, what to speak of . . .

Bhagavān: Paris has elevator.

Prabhupāda: Paris, I know. That I have told.

Jayatīrtha: (laughs) He told me that when we got to the top of the stairs in Bury Place. He said: "In Paris there is a lift."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. In all respects Paris is superior. (laughs)

Bhagavān: I was just thinking that if you wanted warm weather, it's very warm during the day, and the air is very clean. It's not so dusty or anything.

Prabhupāda: No, in the village there must be.

Bhagavān: The trouble is if you get sick along the way.

Jayatīrtha: On the way back from the airport we had to stop twice.

Bhagavān: Anyway, that trip to India is also long, eight hours. It's also long.

Hari-śauri: Thing is, Prabhupāda is thinking that if he has to go to India anyway, so he may as well go straight there.

Bhagavān: The thing is you may be bothered in India. There are so many people who come, even though you say no. Even though you say no, there's always people.

Prabhupāda: No, present problem is that I cannot go up.

Bhagavān: So that we have . . . we have nice palanquin. Remember when you came two years ago, we had a palanquin and we carried you?

Pṛthu-putra: In this engagement, in the Philosophical Society.

Bhagavān: You spoke at one society, and we carried you up a long stair in a very comfortable palanquin.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Bhagavān: In Paris.

Pṛthu-putra: In Paris. Two years ago.

Bhagavān: You gave an engagement at the top of a very big building, and there was no lift, so we built a palanquin and we carried you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: It was nice.

Prabhupāda: That library, something?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Hari-śauri: The other thing is, though, that if you go to Paris, then it means you have to go up the steps to get into the airplane, not just in Paris . . . at least in London you have to, and then again you have to do it in Paris, and then again you'll have to do it in Tehran.

Bhagavān: Yes, but he doesn't have to . . . he can stay there for a while. He doesn't have to go to Tehran.

Hari-śauri: No, you can't fly direct to India from Paris.

Bhagavān: Oh, I see.

Jayatīrtha: He has to stop somewhere along the way. Otherwise . . .

Bhagavān: We're hoping for rapid recovery, I hope.

Jayatīrtha: Well, Srila Prabhupāda is not expecting it at this point. Of course, we're all praying for it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: I said we're all praying for your rapid recovery, but whether or not . . .

Prabhupāda: So why you did not come yesterday?

Bhagavān: I was putting together your vyāsāsana. (laughs) All night long I stayed up. Also, our printer from Italy, he is wanting to present you with the Kṛṣṇa Book. He has had his men working seven days a week, composing. They are composing. So they are all . . . it is going to be a very nice book. We had one article in the paper. We went to a book fair, and thousands of publishers . . . but the article they wrote on us was that, "The association for Kṛṣṇa consciousness produces luxurious books."

Prabhupāda: Why not? Our Kṛṣṇa is the most luxurious person. He is never poverty-stricken. Always with gopīs, cowherd boys, killing all demons.

Jayatīrtha: Harikeśa Maharaja and I were discussing last night about your travel plans, and we were debating on what was actually the best place for you to go. So someone was saying Tehran, someone was saying Paris farm, like this, but the point that came out was that as far as health is concerned, India is not the best place for you to go at all.

Prabhupāda: India.

Jayatīrtha: Not the best place. However, the main point is that you want to go there. That was what was felt by the devotees that were discussing, that you want to go to India immediately, and that you will feel more comfortable by going to India immediately. That was what was being discussed. Although for health purposes it may not actually be the best.

Hari-śauri: For us India is not very healthy. But for Prabhupāda it's the best place.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: I said for us India is not so healthy, but for yourself it's the best place.

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda also got sick in India. Remember? Two years ago in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.

Jayatīrtha: Exactly this time, two years ago.

Bhagavān: Anyway, I think the stair problem is not such a big problem.

Jayatīrtha: No, that is not an insurmountable problem.

Bhagavān: There are three hundred devotees who want to carry you. But I mean, there you will not have people coming if you want to rest. There are no . . . there is only planned people who would come. But there won't be hundreds of Indians coming to see you. And you have . . . right next to your quarters there's your own private kitchen also, so everything's very close at hand. All your servants' quarters are . . . that whole floor is . . . actually, the whole castle is empty, so there's no noise.

Jayatīrtha: It may be very nice for you there.

Bhagavān: Your quarters.

Prabhupāda: We shall go immediately? (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: I think that, Srila Prabhupāda, you should not feel, how to say it . . .

Hari-śauri: Obliged.

Jayatīrtha: . . . obliged in any way to go. Only whatever you think is best for your health condition.

Prabhupāda: No, obliged, I am always obliged to you. That's a fact.

Jayatīrtha: We are only obliged to you. That's a fact. That is the actual fact. I think it must be decided, though, what you think is best for your health situation.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you decide.

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda, the only thing I'm just a little concerned is just if you have difficulty in the car. But if that won't be too difficult, I really think that this is ideal. Your quarters are really first class, extremely wonderful. And the only other thing is at night it's cool, but that's not so bad, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: No, at night cool it will be good.

Bhagavān: And in the morning it is warm at ten o'clock.

Prabhupāda: So kitchen is attached.

Bhagavān: Yes. All attached. You have cook here? Or your temple was cooking?

Jayatīrtha: No, Arundhatī is cooking. I think Pālikā should come? Pālikā should not come for cooking?

Prabhupāda: She has come?

Jayatīrtha: Should she not come? She wants to come.

Bhagavān: There are so many cooks. I mean, we have . . . Mālatī is there, and we have . . . you've never had problem with cooking in France before, I think.

Hari-śauri: And Harikeśa can cook also.

Bhagavān: We all think, though, that whenever you are feeling sick and you go to India, there's always so many people who see you anyway. I remember when you were sick in Vṛndāvana and Brahmānanda and I were there. Even though you were sick, at least fifteen people saw you every day, coming in and out constantly, and then you had to sit up.

Jayatīrtha: Actually, all of us agreed yesterday when we were discussing it that as far as health purposes is concerned, we do not think it was a good idea for you to go to India immediately.

Hari-śauri: We argued for a half hour against going to India, but in the end, you decided you wanted to go to Bombay immediately.

Bhagavān: But I mean, if you have to risk that eight-hour plane ride, that's much more difficult than going to the farm. The farm is only three hours in a comfortable car. (background discussion among devotees)

Hari-śauri: It's not just that. It's the problem that you have to fly from France to somewhere else, and then from somewhere else back to India.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: I said the main problem is that if you do go to France, then it means a great deal more traveling than would be involved in simply flying to India, because you'd have to travel backwards and forwards to the Paris farm. Then you would also have to stay in Tehran, up and down like that in the plane, and then again fly to Bombay.

Bhagavān: But he doesn't have to stay in the farm for just nine days. He can stay there for a long time.

Pṛthu-putra: There is Geneva. From Geneva there is direct plane.

Prabhupāda: If the health suits, I can stay there. If the health improves, I can stay.

Hari-śauri: That's the other thing . . .

Jayatīrtha: There is direct plane from Geneva?

Pṛthu-putra: From Geneva there is direct flight. Oh, yes. When I came back from Bombay, by direct flight from Bombay to Geneva.

Jayatīrtha: What airline?

Pṛthu-putra: Indian airline.

Jayatīrtha: Air India?

Hari-śauri: But even so there's still . . . whether it's Tehran or Geneva, you still have to fly from Paris to somewhere else.

Pṛthu-putra: I came back like this from Bombay to Geneva by direct plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Geneva is . . .

Pṛthu-putra: I didn't have to stop in Tehran. And Geneva is very near.

Bhagavān: My point is I think you can recover there. The atmosphere is so nice, right now, anyway.

Pṛthu-putra: From the farm Geneva is the same distance than to Paris.

Bhagavān: I mean, more or less whenever you get sick everyone thinks that India is not really the best place, because you're always obliged to so many people. Whether you are feeling like it or not, they always come in the room.

Jayatīrtha: And they are generally . . . I know this, that these . . . I like Indian people, but these Indian people are not very conscious of your position. They think that you're just another guru.

Hari-śauri: They think that you're a commodity that they can . . .

Jayatīrtha: Many of them do. Of course, some of them appreciate you.

Prabhupāda: Indian mentality is that, "If we see one saintly person and offer obeisances, we get some blessing for our material . . ."

Hari-śauri: They're very selfish.

Jayatīrtha: In this way, I don't think they really appreciate your . . .

Prabhupāda: Āśīrvāda, āśīrvāda.

Jayatīrtha: Last night, one man came with his family. They wanted to have your darśana. I said: "Prabhupāda is in bed. He's resting." He was insisting, he said: "I do not want to hear him speak, I simply want to see him." I said: "He's in bed. You can't go into his bedroom. How is it possible?" "No, that is all right. I will just go in, and I will see him." (laughter) I said: "What is this? Get out."

Hari-śauri: I remember when we left Bombay, you'd been giving darśana for four and a half hours on the roof.

Prabhupāda: What is the water there?

Bhagavān: Oh, yes, we have our own water.

Prabhupāda: Creek water?

Bhagavān: Underground.

Jayatīrtha: Well.

Bhagavān: It's very nice. Very tasty and light. It's not heavy water.

Jayatīrtha: It's a fact that on the whole, this farm is a wonderful place. I was there a couple of times. I very much liked it.

Prabhupāda: Well water?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All right, let us go.

Hari-śauri: Tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Any time.

Hari-śauri: All right. As soon as we can book a flight.

Bhagavān: We can arrange things.

Jayatīrtha: The thing is, Bhagavān, we should . . . couldn't we somehow arrange it so that Prabhupāda doesn't have to go through the heavy traffic to the airport?

Hari-śauri: There should be other flying times.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, but it all depends on the . . .

Hari-śauri: We'll have to see what time they're flying, then we can . . .

Jayatīrtha: Every hour. All right, so you're sure that this is . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I want some nice water, to digest. That I see there is.

Jayatīrtha: Ācchā. Here the water is not good?

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say it is not good, but . . .

Bhagavān: This is our own water; it's not city water with so many chemicals in it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: What about that bottled water, mineral water, things like that?

Bhagavān: He can have that too.

Prabhupāda: No, why . . .

Pṛthu-putra: France is the best place for mineral water.

Jayatīrtha: In France they have many very nice waters.

Prabhupāda: Mineral water.

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda knows. He used to sell Vichy water.

Prabhupāda: Vichy water. But I don't like. Bottled water I don't want.

Bhagavān: No, we have fresh water all the time. And you have hot water in bathroom.

Jayatīrtha: I knew Bhagavān would come and this would happen.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: I never thought that you would go to India. I knew that Bhagavān would come and that you would go to Paris. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, if I improve my health, I shall stay there for some time.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. Actually, it's a fact that you . . .

Prabhupāda: For me, everywhere is my home. Not that India . . . if I am attached to India, then how I am sannyāsī? (laughter)

Bhagavān: And every other day I will give you a new book. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where is?

Hari-śauri: You have to keep it, too, when you promise.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Bhagavān: So we can plan that. Thank you very much, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: All glories to Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: Western people, they are not only fool, but misbehaved. Paścime loka saba mūḍha anārya.

Hari-śauri: And the further west you go, the worse they become.

Prabhupāda: In India, from Bengal you go western side, they are very filthy. And go more, more, more the western—filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy.

Harikeśa: Pakistan is the worst. Karachi, I heard, is the worst city in the world almost.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalam purāṇam (SB 12.13.18).

Harikeśa: These books are exquisite. The books they make in France are just marvelous.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: It was printed in Italy, I think, but this here is so nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes, embossed. I think our other books are not like this.

Harikeśa: No. Of course, in France this is very much appreciated, because the people are like that.

Prabhupāda: Fancy.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's big competition now between our French and Spanish and English, between our publishing, French, Spanish and English. They are always competing. And the Germans also.

Harikeśa: I think the French are on top, though.

Hari-śauri: Their French Bhagavad-gītā was very wonderful. The Bhagavad-gītā, the French one, when it came out, it's so much better than any other version that we've had. Every time they bring a new book out, it seems to be an advancement on everything else.

Harikeśa: Yogeśvara he's also, is very . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, he is very expert, very enthusiastic. His wife is . . .

Harikeśa: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: They've included a number of photos also. In the picture sections they've headed each section with a photo. There's one of Vṛndāvana temple. They have a photo of your room in Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: Oh! Where it is?

Hari-śauri: In one of the sections here.

Harikeśa: I have to go in and do some more . . .

(offers obeisances and leaves) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . little encouragement to write in here.

Hari-śauri: Through that window you could see Rūpa Gosvāmī's samādhi. And for those two rooms they were charging five rupees a month?

Prabhupāda: Yes. These rooms were broken. So they told me that, "You can repair these, and whatever you like, you can give." So I thought, in those days, must . . . (indistinct) . . . "Pay me if . . ." I know, before me there was a tenant in that other room. He was paying three rupees. So I thought, "Two rooms, but I have spent money. So I'll give him five." Now I am giving them ten rupees.

Hari-śauri: To retain it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes the devotees go down there and clean out the rooms, and we have kīrtana there sometimes. I think this is the first book that someone included this photo.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It was very calm and quiet. And people used to offer obeisances from outside because they knew. Practically everyone knew me. They would . . .

Hari-śauri: You were very well known in Vṛndāvana before you came?

Prabhupāda: Not very well known, but people knew me.

Hari-śauri: Because you were writing, or . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Or because of your ambition to come to the West?

Prabhupāda: No, at that time there was no such thing. I was living there, retired man, like that.

Hari-śauri: So when you went to Vṛndāvana, you'd given up the idea of coming to the West, or you'd never actually . . .?

Prabhupāda: No, coming to the West, the idea was there. But I was planning how to go.

Hari-śauri: Oh, nothing concrete was there.

Prabhupāda: So that idea was there, but how to go there, how to preach there, how to take some books, how to print them, everything alone.

Hari-śauri: So as soon as you had some books, then you were . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then I decided. Everything was being dictated by superior, that's all.

Hari-śauri: I was told that one day you were told by Rūpa Gosvāmī that you must go.

Prabhupāda: But that was open secret. Everyone knew.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: This antique photo is very dull.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: When this photo was taken?

(pause)

Hari-śauri: (indistinct) . . . lecture or something. (end)